Saturday, February 18, 2017

People Who Feel Like God Hates Them or Doesn't Love Them

[this is not a Christian video but being used to show what some people are going through]

I don't believe this man is a born again believer, please pray for him. However I have heard what he has said from many others. Under spiritual and Satanic attack, I have even thought things like he is saying. Once I mulled to my husband on a very very bad day, what if I am like Esau and God does not love me?"  You know that verse that says "Easu I have hated?"This is one thing the "PERFECT PEOPLE" false Christians have wrought. These are the people they are burdening with their oppressions and sending far away from God.

 I have been under immense spiritual attack, it is bad. It's one reason you haven't seen me on here in the last couple weeks very much.  If I didn't "know" "Christianity" was true for sure and if I didn't have the Holy Spirit prompting me with scriptural warnings in my head, it would have been worse. One big part of this spiritual attack was Satan sending the message, "God doesn't love you".  I think Satan is sending that one to a lot of people. People get beaten down by life, and you look around, and think "Why has my life gone so badly?"  Here that false deliverance minister did a number on me, I am still working through. She connected the rightness and blessings of this life to one's spiritual standing. There's a difference too between years of chronic problems and short term stuff too.

Spiritual abusers are making people feel bereft and like God doesn't love them.  I know I have warned of "Best Life" Christianity for YEARS on here, it is worsening. While many churches help the poor, those teachings are coming out in a variety of ways. This man believes that riches in this world are equal to God's love, why wouldn't he? So many of the churches teach it.

There is so much focus on being a "success" in Christianity that if your life doesn't turn out well in this world, it can be an incredible burden. Sometimes I'll go watch sermons of local churches online to get the flavor of the church world, I saw one preacher preaching about how it's great when someone rich gets saved because people can give more money to the church then and he told a story about a rich man getting saved who donated millions to the church. Could a story be any more transparent? So wonder the man in the video above thinks God hates him for not having money. He doesn't know those celebrities mostly sold their souls.

One experiences the churches with their smiling, happy, prosperous people and you ask "What about me?" I will admit it at times, I have asked "What about me too?" You hit that old age and you get "regrets". You wonder why life turned out the way it did. I did not get a normal life at all.  It is hard. God showed me some immense things, you know how I exposed so much on this blog for years, well there was personal things shown to me too. It wasn't just the public ministers and current events, it was private life too. It's one reason I departed from wicked people in my life. It was a lot to face. I was lied to for decades by "family" members, I was shown very surprising things.

God if you ask Him, will open the door and show you a lot of truth. It's hard though, sometimes things will surprise or upset you.  When I was under the spiritual attacks, I could not ignore the things God had done for me.

 I've had a lot of weird temptations too with the spiritual attack. Some of it concerns this blog and the future. One day, I had the thought over and over, I should give up this blog so I am not a hypocrite, start attending one of those friendly churches that give me and my husband food at food pantries and stop being so isolated. It's like I am told to conform over and over, and my mind says "No, No" No". I shut down these temptations but it's crazy how they come. Satan is massively using the sense of extreme isolation I am facing as a Christian. It's crazy I even have thoughts like this come out. People as we get into the last days will be under immense pressure to conform. God allows my husband to support me, even despite his spiritual status and he tells me to continue with the blog.

I am not perfect and fear fainting. I never have gone through such bad spiritual attacks.

I do know Satan uses the message, "God does not love you, and you are going to hell anyway" as an accuser of the brethren. Satan has bombarded me telling me because I have rare disfiguring illnesses and other problems that we are "bad" people and getting what "we deserve". I wish some minister out there would say "Look life is tough, some of you may end up with a life that is nothing but hardship" instead of all the false hopes and telling people God has a miracle for every problem in this world when we were warned of Tribulation. If anything I got the feeling God's children are out for the most suffering in this world.

I am happier now and settled now, but I feel like I was in a punch down-knock down fight. Even the church thing is absurd. I certainly have been in enough where I had no choice to leave or otherwise I would be forced out for opening my mouth.

I am thinking though more then just myself here though. I meet so many people, non-believers who tell me, "God does not care. This life has too much suffering." I have conversations with people like this all the time.

Some even segue over to determining that God is cruel and hates humanity or they believe in a "higher power" who is poking at his "self-created" ant farm with a stick. This is a question churches fail to answer. I tell people direct, this world is hard and Satan run. A lot of people don't like that. A few have listened though and told me, that makes the most sense.

The pastors all sugar-coat life, and so wonder no one is prepared. This place is a death factory. Sure it may have nice blue skies and some flowers but there is a reason Jesus Christ came to RESCUE US.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father

The churches aren't even getting that basic right.


Debra said...

When a child has not grown up with the love of an earthly Father, it is most difficult to understand our heavenly Father's love. It is also most difficult to trust God because of the lack of trust towards an earthly Father. God knows each of our hearts and His love is so patient and merciful. He never stops reaching out to us even when we are running away from Him. He knows how to melt our hearts so we finally surrender to His love. You are a light BB not to be hidden under a bushel. How do you not know if your life can minister and change someone else's? I don't see anything wrong with going to a church and being blessed with some food. Some churches have an outward appearance of helping others, only if they can broadcast it to the world or help the poor on the other side of the world. We don't attend Churches because most of them are run by Luciferians. God can lead you through His Holy Spirit if this is an avenue He wants you to take to get some help. When we know our Father's love our identity becomes formed into what God thinks about us. Jesus was on the cross bearing our sins. There is no greater love on earth that demonstrates a love like that., This I know...He loves me.

Heather Noelle said...

I'm praying for you, sister. Any time you start coming against Satan, and exposing his lies, he's coming at you like a ton of bricks. I really hope you don't stop this blog. God used your blog to lead me to so much truth, and I really look forward to your posts. I enjoy the fellowship, albeit online, with you and the other commenters who are like minded. It is very hard to find it in real life. I was just thinking about you today, and was a little concerned whether you were OK or not, have not seen anything on here in a couple weeks, so I'm glad to see you post this.

It is a very hard time now and I think it will just continue to get harder. I too have the same messages and oppression, and I get "You're not really saved!" as well. Often. It is so lonely to be like we are, I too worry about fainting away when things get really bad. I watch what is happening, I don't think it's too long now until we are REALLY expected to conform and will be unable. I've been praying for strength and perseverance when that time comes.

We live in such a culture now that everything is OK, if you stand against anything you are horrible. It seems to get worse like that by the day. I think that the past few years especially Jesus has been busy separating the sheep from the goats, and He is not done yet. It seems that really soon things are going to start coming together big time, and it will be visible the people who stay outside the system. I'm even wondering what this Fall will bring, there is so much ecumenicalism now, and a call to get together from every direction. The 500th anniversary of the Reformation is coming up in November, what a perfect time to just bury the hatchet and call it a day. Most churches don't even remember WHY there is was any Reformation in the first place, so no matter, right? That is all purely my speculation, but it is interesting anyhow and I continue to watch that. I see so much hatred now for Bible believers, to refuse to join with such a system will be glaringly obvious to everyone around us, I don't even know how to say what I want to about that, I don't have good words to say it. We will be total pariahs, persecuted, more so than we are now I believe. It's coming. I have wondered if God gives us these struggles now to get us ready for tough times. I used to be such a conformist before, would never question anything, I would never survive physically or mentally or spiritually if I had remained that way. I'm thankful for how good God has been to me on a level of what he has given me spiritually and how He has changed my life. He has blessed us with more than enough otherwise, and I'm very thankful for that, but even if all that goes away overnight all of the spiritual knowledge and help He has given me will still be there.

Anyhow, really am praying for you, for the oppression to let up and for your general wellbeing. Take care, friend.


Debra said...

What about government grants for Planned Parenthood under democratic rule...
( – Planned Parenthood’s net revenue increased 5% to total of $1.21 billion in its organizational fiscal year ending on June 30, 2013, according to its new Annual Report 2012-2013, and about 45% of that revenue--$540.6 million--was provided by taxpayer-funded government health services grants.

In the same report, Planned Parenthood said that in the year that ended on Sept. 30, 2012 it did 327,166 abortions.

Clinics in Iowa, Arkansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Montana and New Hampshire also received $655,192 in grants from the Department of Health and Human Services to serve as Obamacare “navigators,” as reported earlier.

The 2012-2013 Planned Parenthood report states on its second page, “We are the most effective advocate in the country for policies that protect access to safe and legal abortion and advance women’s health, actively lobbying in every state legislature ….”

Planned Parenthood’s affiliates spent $26 million on public policy this past year, while the national office spent $31.3 million on building “advocacy capacity.”

Planned Parenthood lobbied heavily for the Affordable Care Act’s mandatory contraception coverage, and the ACA, or Obamacare, is celebrated throughout the annual report as “a historic advance for women’s health.” (See Planned Parenthood 2012-13.pdf)

Fox news...Planned Parenthood reported receiving a record $542 million in taxpayer support in fiscal 2012, marking a steady increase in government funding despite Republican-led efforts at the state and federal levels to cut off that stream.

The funding figures were included in the abortion provider's annual report released Monday. The numbers showed roughly 45 percent of Planned Parenthood's budget now comes from taxpayer dollars.

Pro-life groups quickly seized on the report to renew their calls for Congress to "defund" Planned Parenthood.

As far as stimulus money to help the is where it went...
Where did stimulus money really go?
John Lott By John R. Lott Published March 23, 2012
Facebook Twitter livefyre Email Print
When President Obama signed his economic stimulus plan into law on February 17, 2009, he promised it “includes help for those hardest hit by our economic crisis,” and “As a whole, this plan will help poor and working Americans.”

But the newest data on how the stimulus money was given out across the 50 states and the District of Columbia shows a perverse pattern: The states hardest hit by the recession received the least money. States with higher bankruptcy, foreclosure, and unemployment rates got less money. And lower-income states also received less.

Rather than helping out those in the toughest shape, it looks like Democrats ended up helping their supporters, including unions and many very wealthy supporters.

Anonymous said...

Hi Bible Believer,

I wish you well. Although I don't agree with some of the things you write about, I think you should continue with your blog, if you are able and well enough. You rightly, in my opinion, oppose dominion theology, theonomy, and prosperity theology which are not consistent with Jesus of Nazareth.

Where is compassion, mercy and loving-kindness being shown in some churches towards those who are suffering long term illnesses or have suffered poverty through no fault of their own. Too often, such people are judged harshly by those who have been fortunate and have not known what it is like to go through such things.

Jesus told Christians NOT to lay up treasure on earth. James points out that Christians are not to despise those less fortunate in obtaining transient earthly possessions.

John pints out that we cannot love God whom we have not seen unless we love our brother or sister whom we have seen. He did not say that if we see someone in need, we are to close our heart against that person and shun them by our condemning attitudes, but to open our heart and help them. We are not to judge them.

Christians have not been promised by Jesus a life free of disease or poverty, nor free from trials and tribulations. Although I am not considered by Fundamentalists to be a Christian, I think that compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness can heal all wounds. Often, one has to find these qualities outside the church.


John Arthur

Disciple said...

I have to tell you that your blog has been a lifeline to me since I discovered it about five months ago. It is telling my story in so many ways...the chronic illness and poverty, judgment and rejection from my well-off family, rejection from my church friends for calling-out the new pastor's liberal,emergent teaching, leaving that church and realising all my local churches are compromised, experiencing great isolation, and on top of all this, heartbreaking discoveries about my husband. I too have wondered lately why my life has ended up where it has, in such a deep mess I could never pull myself out of it. And yet...still, there is hope. God DOES love us deeply, and His eyes are upon us. I believe we who suffer great hardship in our Christian lives have in a way been given a gift which I can't explain but I sense. Thank you so much for your blog. It has encouraged me beyond measure to know that there are 'brethren in the world experiencing the same trials'.

Anonymous said...

Debra is so right. I grew up with a very poor and weak father-figure and a mother that was cruel and abusive. How we grow up as children greatly affects how we view God. If we are not loved as children it is a challenge for us to realize the love of God whom we cannot see and physically touch. It has to be on faith and those abused as children often find it hard to trust that God loves them. We can read it in the Word, we can confess it with our lips but it is often difficult to truly take it into our hearts. And it is often difficult to show love to others unless we have the Holy Spirit to do it on our behalf.

Everyone doubts their salvation at some point in their life, but it is especially hard for an abused child to bound back and restore their faith. Of course Satan is ready to whisper those lies that God doesn't love us. We have to realize where they are coming from and reject those thoughts.

I have been where you have been BB - it is a very dark place to be. But our Lord is faithful to help us out of the doldrums and back into the light. Glad you made it back. Keep up the good work. I don't always agree with you, but I admire you for fighting the good fight and fulfilling the ministry that God has given to you. The psalms are full of verses uttered by David in the midst of distress to cry out to the Lord. It has been said that discouragement is the most effective tool in Satan's arsenal. When we are weak He is strong. He is faithful when we can't muster up the strength to even cry out.He hears the cry of our heart and no tear goes unnoticed.

Anonymous said...

BB. Please remember Gods truly does love you. He sent his only begotten Son to die for you. You truly are a believer and have a heap of rewards waiting for you. Until then keep fighting that fight. Paul is proof that the Christian journey is sometimes harder for others. Success isn't measured by how how you have, but by what you've overcame. By reading your testimony it seems you are a very successful woman. Not only does God love you, but we do too. God bless......James...PS. Scripture points out all who have placed their faith on Jesus Christ have overcome this world. We who truly believe are all a success

Janice Sharp said...

Hi BB,

I just wanted to say that you are not alone in your suffering or in the spiritual attacks. I am also being taken down as I speak and I truly do not want to go on anymore. I watched the video of the young man and I can identify with how he was feeling when he made it. I also have a blog (which I sent to you last week in a comment). I made it because I truly felt it was coming from the Holy Spirit as I never knew what I was going to write and I seemed to write of many things I had no knowledge of. I will be deleting it shortly since I couldn't get anyone to read it. You reach a lot of people through this blog, so by that, you are blessed.

Anonymous said...

Dear BB,
I wish that we all lived near you to come over and show how much you are loved and appreciated. You have been such a blessing to me in showing that I'm not nuts in wondering what is wrong with the churches that I no longer attend and then those TV "preachers" with their empty teachings that I thought might provide some spiritual food. You are doing a splendid job at warning the sheep about the wolves among us. Didn't apostle Paul have an illness that God wouldn't heal because it was being used to glorify God? And didn't everything seem to go wrong for him (shipwreck, prison) even though the man was doing all he could to serve the Lord? I would imagine that the grey winter skies aren't helping you either. May God send sunshine, cheer your heart and show you how much you are loved. bonnie

Anonymous said...

BB. I hope to hear from you soon. I'm starting to worry. I will pray for you

Bible Believer said...

Sorry to make you worry last anon, I am back, hope to get back to more posting soon. I got some flu last week. Hard for anyone but they can be more difficult. I am okay now, thank God. Did any of you have extremely warm weather for your area? Our weather was extreme, I never have seen a temperature like that in Feb where I live.

I agree trusting God if one has abusive or hateful parents, is far harder. I do think the challenge is to focus on Who God is aside from wicked earthly parents. I agree God does reach out to people even if we are running away or upset. He has love for us too. I don't think some of us could bear this world without God. Thanks for understanding going to churches for food help, I am glad some of them do this. Many people are in need. My state has food trucks with fresh fruits and vegetables at times which is a good thing.
I agree we have to focus on our identity in God, I have seen what wicked people have done to others who never have found God in their life.

Yes Heather, I do think Satan comes after you too. Ive written a little bit about some of the strange stuff. I don't plan to stop the blog. I know I've gotten behind but plan to keep it going as long as I can. I had writing ideas, sometimes I mention them, if anyone remembers ones I mentioned but did not get to, remind me here, but you know life. I am glad my blog could help you Heather, and hope it has others. Writing this has taught me a lot over the years. Thanks for thinking of me. It is here too I find like minded people, I just can't find any IRL, I do not know why it is so hard IRL but glad we have online to talk to one another. Yes I wrote years ago about how when people discovered the true nature of this world, the churches, what babylon is, it was a very lonely place to be. I think many are going to struggle with fainting. I know too in this world it's often harder for those trying to do God's will to survive. Yes they are tightening the screws and I feel it coming soon too. It is strange to think of the Bush era. Well I started this blog when Obama was prez but that was soon before, and remember how extreme everything had become and that just keeps marching on. Hmm that is interesting about the 500th anniversary, sure I can see the Pope declaring special unity or the daughters doing ceremony. They forgave Luther or something recently, I posted on Francis celebrating Luther some months ago.
It is coming, never forget that video where all the churches leaders in America took their turn to bow before the Pope. I am glad you came away from being a conformist. Oh I wanted to fit in so badly too. Sometimes on worse days, this is usually other matters like worldly ones, I have wondered why am I so different but there is a lot of pressure to conform isnt there? Thanks Heather for your prayers, I appreciate it. :)

Bible Believer said...

Thanks John Arthur, I am glad to see you are still reading here :)

I am glad some churches do have compassion for the poor. In my community some of the mainliners do a far better job then the IFB I ended up leaving.

I think the mainline didn't get as much yet of David Ramsey and extreme Ayn Rand Republican politics, so there is still some focus on the poor. Of course the social justice gospel has errors too, but I find the discrepancy interesting, which isnt to say there is no helpful IFB, my one before the last did help the poor so every church is different.

I think one way they do oppress people on this earth is the economic, definitely. People even with simple lives are judged harshly, it's not right. I agree no Christian should be looking down on the poor. Christians are supposed to operate outside the status of this earth.
John Arthur, I'm not sure I would be considered a bonifide fundamentalist, I left the IFBs, I don't support authoritarianism,the politics. Of course some of the traditional "fundamentals" would apply. Perhaps some would say my belief in the bible is fundamentalist, I do care first and foremost if someone is saved or not.

Disciple thanks for writing too. Sorry you have faced chronic illness, poverty, judgment and rejection from your well off family. With mine I departed the majority of the family outside some cousins, deceased sons of one loving aunt who died young.

I am glad you stood up against false teaching even if there was persecution, you did your duty according to God and that is good you did so. Yes I faced facts there was no good local church too, so many of us in that position. So sorry you faced heartbreaking things about your husband, I will pray for you. Sometimes it feels like in this life some are betrayed by so many, but even there I think of Jesus being betrayed even by His friends. Sure I relate too your thoughts of wondering "What have I done with my life?" One wicked person actually I believe speaking for Satan told me I had nothing to show for my life. In this world with its credentials and competitions, there are a lot of beaten down hearts. I wish I could write a good article on that last line I just wrote alone. When I am at worse, I have to remind myself What does God think? It rescued me out of this. Sometimes I know we can get so weary.
I am glad my blog has helped you too. You words give me encouragement. I too wonder about those facing sufferings in this world too. I will pray for what you are facing.

Bible Believer said...

Yes abused children can suffer. I had no love growing up, it was a great struggle, and I knew I was an atheist so young, because of what I experienced at home not matching when people spoke of a loving God. God knows what we have faced and yes, it takes time to develop trust in God in relationship. Faith has to keep it going. Before I was a believer, I used to think and say things like I want there to be a loving God. Showing love and sharing love too among others is the work of the Holy Spirit. Those who have been severely and otherwise abused have to let God do the leading there. Many do not love in this world, it can be frightening but it is one of the most concrete points of the seared, no love. I know sometimes if you meet a very down person it can be hard to tell them of God's love and people who have been spiritually abused in cults or abusive churches, there is an extra barrier there too. Yes it can bring doubts about one's salvation, we live in a world now where people judge on outward appearances. Here scripture can help us, in knowing the truth, and trying to separate WHat is said about God---cults present Him as a cruel task master excepting you to show credentials and winning competitions in this world and Who God really is. I know I had to keep returning to that, to get through the latest. I also have realized I am heavily fighting really bad stuff I learned as a young child about status, money and what made a "good person" [my family sold out for wealth, status and money: the condemnation I received for not "achieving" was immense. This world in American culture especially is putting that as a heavy burden on people.

I am doing better spiritually thought physically the struggles have been tougher, but to have some spiritual easing is a good thing. One wants to be back feeling themselves on good terms with God. David's Psalms helped me definitely. He had those same emotions and feelings as well. I do think God understands too when we get tired and discouraged, thanks disciple. :)

Thank you James I appreciate it. I prayed the other day for God to rescue me from those negative messages of the world and wicked people and what it has done to me. Yes we who truly believe are a success. I once wrote a wicked person the one who told me I had nothing to show for my life and told them in the end, you won't be taking money, or titles with you, or a job resume. You will be born again in Jesus Christ or not. I appreciate all your posts here too.

Bible Believer said...

Anon, I will pray for you too. So sorry you are being taken down too. Yes this life gets hard and you think how can I make it another day? The young man who made this video, had hardships too, even watch the sufferings of others can make you question life. Can you resend your blog, I hope I did not miss that comment. Don't delete your blog if you feel no one has read it. This blog is an old one, I've been at this for 7 years. At the start I think I had three people reading.
It takes time to get people to read a blog. This one I used to give the link to on Christian message boards, in my years I was on them. I got banned a lot. It did help get the blog out there though.

Bible Believer said...

Oh above is to Janice. I type anon, sometimes automatically. Thanks Bonnie, yes winter isn't easy time of year, I am glad we are not alone in discussing the churches and what is happening. We would be asking ourselves what is wrong with us and why are we the only one too? Thanks for reminding me of Paul too.

Jan Sharp said...

Thank you and God Bless you BB, it means a lot to know there are others out there that are aware of every evil, yet must keep up our faith, to not only remain positive but to spread love to others. You can see my blog here

With the blog, it is not so much that I care about how many were reading but, because of the attack on my faith, made me question what I had been writing. I explain there that I am not a writer, didn't want a blog, but had begun praying for the Lord God to speak to me and I started to hear words. I wrote them all down and this is what came of it.

God Bless


Anonymous said...

It's a false "turn from your sins" gospel. Biblical repentance is a change of mind toward Jesus Christ. If we had to repent from our sins to be saved, we'd all be doomed as even after salvation we are still sinners.....James

Anonymous said...

I believe Mrs Sharp is telling people she is getting special revelation from "God" apart from the holy scriptures.....James

Anonymous said...

These revelations are coming from "papa yeshua". This is a crazy world in which we live....James..PS. Sorry for so many posts. I should have waited until I was done reading her blog until i posted. When I thought I seen it all, I came across something else. Please everyone stay away from that blog, or at least use discernment.

Debra said...

Jan, I looked I looked up the words you said God gave you "Soon now you will hear the Yasiti Chamolcha trump for your invitation." Yasiti is a name in Indonesia that only 20 people have. Molcha is a city in Europe. Republic of belarus The name Cham is a Hebrew baby name. In Hebrew the meaning of the name Cham is: Hot. You did say the words sounded how you spelled but was not sure. Yatsi in Hebrew means coming forth.
From a website:
High in the Himalayas, in Bhutan, Tibet, Nepal, and India, and across the steppes of Mongolia,
Buddhist monks in medieval monasteries hold sacred festivals once a year, during which they perform 1,300-year-old mystical dances, collectively called cham, in order to transform evil for the benefit of the entire world.

Another website: Cham deity, late period, still under worship in the sanctuary of Po Nagar, Nha Trang, Vietnam, Indochina, Southeast Asia, Asia

Debra said...

This scripture reminds us that God's promises are true because God cannot lie. Abraham had faith to believe they were all true. This verse is the key to understanding God's faithfulness and love...And being FULLY persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform.

Philippians 1:6 Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Romans 4:17-25 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Heather Noelle said...

Hi Janice, I took a look at your blog last night and there are a couple of things I wanted to share with you. This woman whose videos I will share is a former hypnotist, and was saved in the past year (and she is no longer a hypnotist as she believed it was of the occult). She is well versed in their techniques and methods of hypnosis. She has done several videos exposing Torben Sondergaard and the Last Reformation, and I felt that I should share them on here. It is my understanding that this woman was a follower of Torben's prior to getting saved. She has many good videos on her You Tube page, "Heal and Restore". This is not a blanket endorsement for her (I find few people I agree with 100%), I see that she shares a few Peter Ruckman videos as well and he had some questionable viewpoints. Not disparaging the dead there if anyone else reading this does not like that comment, but it is true. Anyhow, I hope that you will take a look at this and pray about it and ask the Lord to show you.
Also, be very very careful of things resembling automatic writing. I feel awkward even commenting on all of this, so I'll let BB address that if she wants.
Take care, Heather

Bible Believer said...

"Anyway, the very first night I went, Mary (the lady of the house) did a teaching about how to hear from God. It was very timely for me because I was most definitely searching for a way to hear to hear from God in some way. As part of the teaching, we were given a prayer to say aloud and then write what we heard. Sort of like automatic writing, but of the Holy
Spirit. As I went to bed that night I prayed that prayer again, then began to write. I would hear about 4 or 5 words at a time and just keep writing until I could no longer hear. I have received some very amazing things that I know are not coming from my own mind because many times I do not even know what they mean or how to spell the words I am hearing. I also have asked questions in my mind as I am writing and He is always faithful to answer me right away. If I ask the same thing over different nights, the answer is always the same. You see, He never changes. Praise God!"

Thanks for warning about that blog.

Jan why are you even here to spread confusion?

That Mary person basically taught you demonic channeling....

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for the warnings, Debra, James and Heather.

Bible Believer said...

I've been exposed to Catholic channelers before I was saved, all the same works gospel, stay pure stuff. Why are not God's Word in His Scripture enough for you. You are doing the same thing as that Walsch fellow.

Anonymous said...

Dear Jan,
I desire for you too know that I care for you from my heart. I want to share a personal experience that contributed to me running from an abusive Baptist Church who hired an Assembly of God pastor, because I believe it is relevant here. And I want to warn you of those voices you were trained to hear in your head.

First, I did not go to your website because of what you stated in your comment thread, "but had begun to pray for the Lord God to speak to me and I started to hear words. I wrote them all down and this is what became of it." That particular statement was a red flag to me in discerning your testimony for this same method was utilized by the majority of the congregation, including the pastor, in labeling themselves as "more spiritual" than those of us who trusted in the Words of our Holy Scriptures as the final authority of our faith, with the help of the Holy Spirit in illuminating the Scriptures so that we an understand them.

When the charismatic women in my former church, encouraged me to watch Trinity Broadcasting Network, as well as giving me books written by those false preachers and teachers, instead of telling me to read my Bible for all truth, those red flags flew up in a hurry, so I began researching what in the world TBN was (I had never heard of it until that point) and the charlatans who preached their own words from their vain imaginations as well as making a fortune from making their viewers feel guilty, thus sending mammon to make these wolves very rich.

Something was not right in this church system, and time would prove it to be a cult....with much spiritual abuse, false accusations, slander and lies, and the wolves trying to destroy my relationships with my family members. Several of the women received words from what they defined as the lord, but I know these were demonic spirits that were filling their minds full of lies. I searched the Scriptures to see if what they were writing down (they called it journaling) coming from the voices (they said they heard the holy spirit), were true according to God's Word. And the stories they were telling me did not line up with our Scriptures.

Plus the fact they were telling me that the lord (of their own understanding) told them things that I should do with my own life and they were the 'vessel' god used to reach me. To them, I wasn't spiritual enough for I wasn't speaking in tongues, I wasn't falling down under the spirit like I used to in my 'baby' Christian form, laughing like a hyena and rolling around on the floor receiving 'visions,' nor was I feeding their egos with "Wow, you are really in tune with god more than myself."


Anonymous said...


One woman in our church, who said the lord spoke to her while writing down everything he said (this is called channeling), boasted of falling down and birthing (going through the motions of child birth) all the while having legitimate birthing pains to accompany her experience. When I asked her, "So where do I find this in my Bible so I can hear from God myself," she replied, "It isn't in the Bible, but a true work of the holy spirit." So I gathered that I didn't have the Holy Spirit living inside of me because I wasn't having these bizarre experiences happening in my faith life. This deceived woman also promoted Todd Bentley as being the real deal as his revival was going on at that time.

Another woman (a friend of the birthing woman), became angry with me when I pointed out that being slain in the spirit or drunk in the spirit as they called it, was in fact, demonic, and I did not want any part that this cultic religion any longer. I repented, and turned to God's Word for all truth, instead of extra Biblical revelation and experiences that I had been led to believe were necessary for salvation. This church focused on "being more spiritual and having more experiences" that their counterparts, and I believed that I was on the cutting edge of Christianity, more superior and more important because I was beginning to share in their experiences. I was going down the road of the demonic, being led their by the pastor, the church board/elders, and other important religious leaders - women Bible study leaders, sunday school leadership, prayer chain leaders, and other "spiritual mothers" as they prided themselves to be over us labeled "baby Christians." I have grown to dislike that Unbiblical term Christian. So then, a mature Christian must experience all sorts of manifestations in order to avoid the term baby Christian?


Anonymous said...

I believe one of the characteristics of a cultic church is gross sexual sin, which is carefully hidden and concealed while the congregation is love bombing their new victims in getting them to attend their cult/church. In my former congregation, a rape was covered up, the sexual sins of the pastor were ongoing, labeling the women coming forward with accusations as liars, pornography was rampant, children of the leadership were living together (fornicating) with no correction, the pastors own household was a mess (adultery and divorce were commonplace), and the divorce rate amongst the congregation was high. After witnessing the leadership meddling in family relationships, it was easy to see how they destroyed many homes with their abuse. As we sang the "We are the family of god" song every Sunday as an indoctrination to the control, manipulation, and abuse hurled at us by the clergy/leadership.

In truth, it was a dysfunctional church/dysfunctional family with dysfunctional leadership who love to lord it over others, because they were following demonic spirits instead of reading their Bibles, studying and meditating upon its precepts instead. I was invited to their women's Bible study. I would have had to purchase a Joyce Meyer booklet, study guide, filling my mind and soul with her garbage every week in order to fit in with the enlightened women of this cult. I could not go down that road. Another women's Bible study was studying Mark Batterson's "The Circle Maker." Another dead end road to apostasy. The men's Bible study group was doing an Andrew Wommack study, complete with Andrew's false teachings of God, the Holy Spirit. The list of wolves in sheep's clothing was endless, and every name under the God T.V. and TBN networks were promoted.

But there was one statement missing from this cult, and it was "Go and read your Bible for the truth of the Word of God." Not one person in that apostate church ever told me to read my Bible, for it was never enough. And not one person ever said that your true authority, is in Jesus Christ, for He is the final authority of your faith. Matthew 28

So please, Jan, I pray that you will truth Jesus and His Words/His Ways as your truth, and not rely on those voices you are hearing for they will not save you. I share this as someone who has been down your road, and by God's mercy and grace, He has shown me His truth by simply reading, studying, and meditating upon His Word. I have repented many times in seeking spiritual things outside of His Word and I believe He has forgiven me many times over, for I so desired to fit in with a group who desired spiritual things. I am forgiven.

Debra said...

One of the reasons why we become dismal in our relationship with God is we tend to compare ourselves with others. If they have apples, we think we need apples. They have outward beauty, we want outward beauty. This list can go on and on. Adam and Eve thought the same thing, how dare God withhold knowledge of good and evil so we can become like God. Introspection can go both ways...examining ourselves to see whether we are in the faith or believing God is not faithful in His love for us.

So we shrink back into our shell because we think God doesn't love us. It was the love of God that told Adam and Eve to eat from every tree in the garden except one. So they go for the one believing they deserve it rather than believing it was evil.Then to clean up this horrid mess God sends His Son Jesus to die for the sinful flesh we inherited from Adam and Eve. As born again believers (The old man Adam has died in the flesh, crucified with Christ with God's Holy Spirit now living in us) we can truly say He loves us. If He didn't we would not all be here.

Appearances can be a stumbling block for anyone. What one has, what one looks like, what one achieves, how smart and gifted one is, who one knows and associates with. It's pretty gaggy as it exemplifies an absorbed narcissism in full array.This is where competition goes head on with a potential competitor, being threatened of their first place status. The Israelites compared themselves with Egypt. Where are my melons! They gave us good choice food and not manna! I hope we are not comparing ourselves with worldly and fleshly values that only drive us away from God.

2 Corinthians 10:12 - For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Galatians 1:10 - For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Philippians 2:3-8
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Heather Noelle said...

Thanks Anon for your testimony. I'm thankful you got out of that church. I briefly attended a small Bible study where I live, at a Word of Faith church. Very sweet people but same type of thing, once the pastor asked the group "who here speaks in tongues". Then all the hands in the room shot up, except mine. He looked at me and said "We know you don't" like I was somehow a big failure. Their version of tongues was "lalalala", (although I personally prefer Kenneth Copeland's "shabalabalaba" lol sorry couldn't help that) I later found out from my son that was what they were doing with the kids, running them through "speaking in tongues". If it is truly the Holy Spirit, how do they all do it at the same time and start on their own time? I was very much a baby Christian then, came out of institutional religion and didn't know anything else because around here it's either TBN preachers or mainline religion like Catholicism and Lutheranism. It did not take long, the Lord led me to teachers that utterly refuted this type of teaching, and we quit going there. But during this time, I had a lot of health issues, they kept telling me if I had enough faith I could heal myself, and if I had enough faith the Holy Spirit would give me the gift of tongues. It was very damaging to my faith for a time. I had a rather dysfunctional childhood, and there is a part of me that still has that "you are not good enough" thought, and I wondered that too. And there was alot of pride attached to the folks that were "doing the works" in a sense. They were "better" than I, more "spiritual". Granted I attend an IFB church sometimes I see that here too, the pride, "I'm holier than you are because I ----- (wear a skirt, tithe the most, come to church every services, fill in the blank)" and so on. Probably human nature and I don't think anyone is free of it in any church. The thing that worries me most is that you see alot of these movements have a Gospel philosophy attached that tells you can just repeat a prayer and you're saved, saying words gets you things - like the witchcraft it is, we are little "gods" and can tell God what to do, Jesus is a genie, etc. All that stuff is bad, and blasphemous, but the worst is to lead people on a false path and promise of heaven that leads straight to hell. Once you start bringing these emotional experiences into the picture, whether they are imagination, contrived or occult based, it is extremely difficult for people to see the error, they are relying on their own experiences over God's Word. Anyhow, I've probably rambled long enough, but this is such a hard issue for me and I know many sweet friends who have gotten caught up in it. Take care, Heather

Anonymous said...

Debra. Yes. Abraham offered Isaac knowing God was capable of raising him from the dead. Most of what he did was by faith. He did have a few shortcomings, but don't we all lol. Abraham knew the promise of the redeemer would come through Isaac, but he didn't question God once. He knew God would fulfill his promises, even if it meant after Isaac was slain, God would raise him from the dead. This is the faith we all should aspire to have in the scriptures. This faith only comes by reading the scriptures. God Bless you......James

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

William Sculley said...

My life is a mess, but I have never felt closer to God than now, when I can feel Him supporting me through my genetic illness, not because He heals me, but because He comes to me. He has given me a wonderful Church family that is supportive of me and helps me through the hard times. I've been asked why I still believe so strongly, and the answer is that I finally found a place where the people are the hands and feet of God, reaching out to love those in need, and I found that by becoming a person in need. Even the nights spent crying in pain while on Lortab, I know that I am loved. I have people visit me while I've been in the hospital just to pray for me.

It was this kind of love that showed me not all churches are in trouble. When people preach that God is the God of the suffering, of those in pain, like Lazarus or Job, that is real Faith. My God is the God of the three children who was with them in the furnace. He is the God of Joseph and was with him in the pit and the jail. He is the God of Daniel in the lion's den. He is the God of Mary, who found herself pregnant in a world where being pregnant out of wedlock could get her stoned to death, and when the Urim and Thummim were used to judge her, out came the Thummim, declaring her innocent as she was.

God doesn't save us from pain, but through pain and trials. He never promised a life full of sunshine, He never said there'd never be pain. He gives me a life where I can sing and laugh about the very thing that causes me pain. I have been gifted with the ability to crack jokes about my disease. I know one day I will probably die of something related to it. Why should I let that worry me? I can't let that get me down. I know that if God wanted to heal me, He would. But like the blind man, I must understand that perhaps the man who sees me being happy and joyful as I sit for three hours in a doctor's office getting an infusion might want to know why I am joyful in the midst of this.

What I had without the Church would never have kept me strong through this. Living on my own in the faith is what caused me to go into a tailspin of depression. Being physically in the family of Christ is what brought me back. It isn't pretty. It isn't perfect. I'm not some holy saint. I'm just myself, and I found a place that will love me despite my illnesses.

Now, as I begin the journey to the Resurrection, forgive me, a sinner, for all things in which I have offended you, whether knowingly or in ignorance, and pray that I might obtain the wisdom and humility to forgive others of their offences.

Anonymous said...

Heather Noelle,

I am sorry you experienced harsh and cruel treatment from those who claim to know Jesus as their own. I can relate to every word of your experience, for those same factors were commonplace in one of the charismatic/Pentecostal churches I attended as well.

For example, the speaking in tongues topic. Yes, tongues upon demand are one of the signs of a cult, not a true Body of Christ. These individuals speak jibberish in appearing more holy than the rest of us. I walked up for prayer to a couple of deacons/deaconesses and during the prayer (which was a prayer of their own making, not Holy Spirit inspired what so ever), a couple of people began speaking in tongues, although it duplicated the exact language I hear the toddlers speaking amongst us. Why would deacons/deaconesses speak nothing during a prayer, of what benefit does it have to the one who desires true, Spirit filled prayer?

Like you said, it's pride. I have discovered this type of hyperspirituality to be extremely abusive in lording over sheep who desire Jesus to be their Shepherd, not people. Our children too, were dismissed during to attend 'Children's Church' where the instructor was teaching jibberish/speaking in tongues upon demand. "Okay, children, I command you to speak in tongues now!" I know this sounds unbelievable, but unfortunately, it is true. The desire for signs and wonders in these cults, and false ones at that, is superior to Jesus' truth.

And testimony time in these types of cults (false churches) consists of boasting and bragging of oneself in how many works they have done, various individuals they have prayed for salvation or how many people "they" have led to the lord, or how many times they have fasted, or how much money they give/tithe (even on their life and health insurance policies), or how many people they have corrected with their charismatic truths, or how many visions or drunk in the spirit experiences they had, etc. It was primarily a boast fest to their own narcissistic fake faith, followed by hand clapping and back patting from the congregation. It truly was a circus show, all the while the true believers never took center stage to boast of themselves as there still were a few humble souls amongst the braggarts.

Heather, you are not alone in experiencing the religious abuse from a so called 'church' no less. While sick, no individual, believer or not, should ever be told that if you had enough faith, you shall be healed. This comes from wicked and evil people who are false converts, not Spirit filled people of Christ. I too, experienced illness for several years, and a so called Christian family member, told me right to my face, that the reason I am sick is because of my sin. My illness was not due to some behavioral issue (like alcohol intake for example), but of was a tumor growth that appeared out of no where, eventually leading to surgery. The tumor was benign, Praise our LORD. So thankful to Him.

To be told by wicked evildoers that our sicknesses/illnesses are a result of some personal sin, or that we do not have faith, or enough faith to heal ourselves, is from the pit of hell. Jesus is not our "genie in a bottle" and we cannot control and manipulate His Ways as the false church insists that we do.

Thank-you for your rambling Heather and for your personal individual testimony. It is validating for many of us who have been delivered out of toxic church systems who use people for their own glory. My faith has been strengthened in reading your words. May God, our Father, bless you and keep you, in His faith. Thankful you left that all behind as well.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous,

Thank you for your comments relating to the excesses of some(many?) Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. (Let me state my theological bias up front, so you can dismiss anything with which you don't agree. I am a Quaker sympathizer and would be considered a liberal Christian.).

You have spotted the lunacy that can occur in many Pentecostal churches. There is often very little contextual analysis of the bible and a failure to interpret the scriptures from their Christological centre. Their so-called private revelations often contradict a contextual and Christocentric exegesis. Also, many of their absurd practices have nothing to do with the biblical witness, as you have pointed out.

Paul clearly laid down that the sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit is the fruit of the Spirit, not speaking in tongues, as so many Charismatics claim.

These so-called leaders need to be taught how to read the bible. Too much lifting passages out of the immediate and broader contexts sets the tone for establishing anything by pretext and when people disagree with the interpretation offered by such leaders, they tend to resort to authoritarian control to support their weird theology and weird practices.

Many thanks for your comments. They were much appreciated.


John Arthur

Anonymous said...

Check out this sermon on Asaph- Psalm 73- in which Asaph almost backslid when he envied the prosperity of the wicked. Asaph was deceived by the devil to believe that the wicked are strong in body, increase in wealth and are not plagued by the problems common to man. I have listened to this sermon many times. There is a proverb that says that man is 70 years , 80 years if he has the strength but is full of trouble. Hope this encourages you. But i read once where you wrote that people are saved before they repent. That is Calvinism and is an error in the plan of salvation. Please review that. God bless you.

Bible Believer said...

I definitely will read Psalm 73, yes it has a verse in there about how the wicked will prosper. Arent the wicked strong in body and increase in wealth? Don't many of them escape problems while giving them to others? Many of the seared HIDE their problems, expressing vulnerabilities is not their forte. I believe salvation comes when you BELIEVE of course repentance would come right after. I don't want to nitpick but salvation brings forth the necessary grief over one's sins.

Bible Believer said...

I agree those who oppress the ill saying it is because of their sin are completely wrong.

William Sculley I will pray for your health, while I do not agree with your church, it does sound like some of your church members have offered you solace and comfort in your suffering.

Anonymous said...

Our Lord Jesus made it a priority to preach the gospel to the sick and the poor first. To receive the gospel one usually has to humble themselves, and the sick and the poor have already been humbled in this world, and thus more receptive to the gospel. What we lack in this world we make up for in heaven. I sure am looking forward to a glorified body lol. God bless....James

William Sculley said...

Thanks for the prayers. But it wasn't the Church members that offered solace alone. For myself, it has been the Church that has not only offered, but lived up to the offer of oneness with Christ. Having oneness with Christ is impossible without oneness with the Body of Christ. Paul literally teaches this throughout his letters. When someone tries to say that organized faith is the problem, they ignore the establishment of human leadership that is necessary for the functioning of the Church under the apostles.

To be honest, your disagreement with my Church stems from a fundamental misunderstanding about what they teach. You don't disagree with my Church, but with a strawman erected to replace it. When you replace the strawman with the real Orthodox Church, things look much different.
Thanks for the prayers about my health