Saturday, October 8, 2016

Even Bible Study Isn't Safe

Be careful like me in trying to attend even a non-pastor led Bible study. I chose a "more conservative" church but was wrong about it's affiliations. I never would go to services there but figured maybe I will try a non-pastor led  women's Bible study. I went twice but won't be going back. Sometimes I had the thought of having open and free conversation with people and seeing where things go, but that's limited. Maybe I don't have the social skills to pull this off, kind of like doing a "rescue mission".  It has alarmed me how very much the thinking matches everywhere I go.

You know there will be trouble when you are discussing the book of Acts, and the Holy Spirit, and I said something very mild in the discussion, "I was saved and the Holy Spirit changed things for me right away, I could understand God's Word and it was wonderful and I left the Catholic church very soon after." [paraphrasing my words here].  I didn't want to offend anyone. My main point was to address the Holy Spirit changing someone's life.

This was a church that taught salvation by faith, not a liturgical one, but they all looked at me like I told them I murdered someone when I said "I left the Catholic church". 

The group leader responded immediately to shut me up....

"We don't put down other denominations here."

"Catholics worship God too"

and then another lady responded....

"I brought my Catholic parents to salvation, and I go to Mass with them. Vinegar doesn't win anyone over! I now attend Mass with my parents."

I then said,

"Catholicism teaches another jesus and another gospel". I told the "vinegar" lady "We will not agree here."

 I had 18 pair of eyes looking at me with anger. I didn't back down but I felt like I would be wasting my time to go any further. Be careful if you get any bright ideas like me out of a hankering to try and deal with and solve extreme social isolation. The pod people and one world religion people have taken over everywhere.

Some time later, I went to the bathroom and came back into the room hearing, "All denominations are to be respected".  They were outraged and discussing my breaking of "social ecumenical rules".  Remember I did not say, "The Pope is Antichrist" or "Kneeling in front of the wafer/Eucharist is idolatry". I made one simple statement of leaving a church. My husband told me, he was shocked at their level of ire over such an innocent statement. He laughed and said to me, "Imagine what they'd be saying if they saw your blog." He understood when I told him, "I can't go back."

I had the weird thought if these people saw the blog I wrote, they would lose it. Sometimes it is scary out there, it really is. As a Christian you will make enemies and be "hated" just being you. Even the most mild statements will bring anger. No even the non-pastor led Bible studies even given to a variety of people are not safe. The local IFB I left never had one bible study, where it was people having an actual discussion. I do live in a spiritual wasteland here.  We have discussed moving for years but have not been given a way out yet or even more important shown where to go or given the means to go. I am praying even more fervent prayers to God about where to go.

I was led out of the Catholic church within days of being born again. I do not think people who accept Catholicism are saved. A few may be legitimately ignorant but God will know who they are.  I know some will say maybe you got too open and free in sharing but better I know early on then later.

I already said no to attending a "community bible study" that I know promotes the ecumenical message. I know a local Catholic lady who attends that, I can tell they aren't teaching her much, since she still is very happy to remain Catholic. I have directly witnessed the gospel of grace to that lady and she knows why and how I left. She has smiled and told me she plans to stay Catholic but my conscience is clear. I of course turned down Alpha and other Bible studies I know are false.

Yes sometimes I do question myself to end up in this position. Yes I can see how easily people could compromise. People do it not to be alone. People want friends and people to talk to. The conformity has GROWN. Yes, I will say that and it's getting worse. Independent thinkers are rare.

Those biblical warnings about being hated are to be taken SERIOUS.  It can be very hard. I am sure my readers here will understand why I left never to go back. I didn't feel there was any chance of changing minds either. Perhaps God would use someone to go in and deliver truth but I felt there was no doing that there.


Grammy G said...

Bb-you mentioned you discussed moving because you live in a dry and arid land. It is everywhere! And Scripture tells us it shall be so. I think God is testing us to see if we are willing to water with the Word right where we are.

Anonymous said...

This sounds like the "Beth Moore" inclusive, ecumenical style of Bible study that is so prevalent in churches today. Never mind teaching solid doctrine - it might offend someone.

Anonymous said...

When I hit the "group leader" statement, I knew it was over. I think spiritual hierarchy is just plain wrong and someone is always trying to take the place of Christ as the head. I have run across this even in the home church movement. True fellowship has been highjacked by positions and agendas. I do believe in the pastor/teacher gifting, but it is not above any of the other gifts and looks totally different than what we see today. (Mark 9:35) - Don

Bible Believer said...

Grammy, yes its a dry and very arid land. Even witnessing here is hard. I have to a few non-believers and pray for them but this place is oppressive. It is corrupt. LOL some may write everywhere is now, bible believer.

The people are of a more colder cultural outlook. It is hard to talk to them. When I do get one that is talkative they tell me something is wrong here too, so I am not imagining it. I met a lady at an art class I am taking and she even told me, "I was born here, and this is a very unfriendly place, and no one knows anyone here and there's no community here, it's too corporate, that's why". It was funny she just came up and told me this, I didn't make any complaints to her and the art class went well.

The ironic thing is this place is so beautiful and scenic, I have endless photographs.

I don't even see the same connections between people I used to see in my old small town. This town isn't huge but there's a weird vibe here, and I haven't felt right since coming here 10 years ago. I'm a poor person living among upper middle class corporate people and there is a huge cultural divide.

We got trapped here via economic survival but for us there's no "home" and the question became "Where do we go?" and as that remained unanswered we remain stuck. I wanted to go back to the old town, very badly here is a place where a husband's decisions overtook a wife's.

If it was up to me, I'd sell everything and leave and even go into a rental room if I was forced to. He is more cautious but I understand, he has a disabled wife to think of. If we gamble wrong homelessness could ensue.

There is far less medical care and resources there and more here. I do try to make the best of things while being here, but I miss having community and feeling censored everywhere. The churches are SO CONTROLLED. Among the upper middle class and above I have realized there is less open sharing, and emotions. It has taken a personal toll on me.

I have wondered if maybe it's not the place and EVERYWHERE has changed to be so now, where people are afraid to talk to one another and the social disconnection exploded. For whatever reason God has not opened the door for me to leave yet. I am praying for it though. I don't feel I was able to build a life here and one does want their earthly life to be worth something where one feels they are making a different or impact. Even when sick, one needs connections with other people and we do not have them outside some friendly acquaintances. I moved too much as a child and adult, and regretted the last move, like I wanted to dial back time. We moved here for husband to have a good job which was taken away three months after we moved here and he had been unemployed a full year, in our old town, ten years ago.

Anonymous said...

Hi BB,

It's the trend now. Personally, I have given up on fellowship meetings and bible study. I have been in enough of them, there is no need to hope it will be different with the next one.

I have tried sharing truth with friends and family. Most have shunned me, others are praying that I see the error of my ways because the Catholic church to them is the true church of God.

Reading the bible has helped me understand that it is God who commands and we as believers have to make the choice to be obedient. None of the great men of God (Abraham, Moses, Elijah) had fellowships and prayer groups. Even the new testament apostles found it lonely following the precepts of our Saviour.

We need to be strong in our faith.

The LORD is my Shepherd.

Bible Believer said...

Yes Beth Moore teaching. I also realized with horror, they had a woman in there who had been associated with Campus Crusade for Christ and told us, she had gotten training there and had been told she had the gift of teaching. The "humble bragging" wore me out. I was not happy to hear the bible study had Campus Crusade leader types who had attended their conferences in it. She was the one who was most offended and who lambasted me for "putting down a denomination". Solid doctrine was going by the wayside. We have a meeting where a woman gives a testimony right before the individual bible study and I noticed one song referred to a millennial kingdom on earth. I can't remember the exact line but it bothered me intensely. I had the thought they are ripe for being fooled with the Antichrist with that teaching.

I hate all the "leadership" training and "group leaders" There was a discussion where they all talked about people finding out their spiritual gifts. Something seemed prideful about people being given a personality test to find out their spiritual gifts. Like ones spiritual gifts are based in themselves. I think spiritual hierarchy is wrong too. Yes its all positions and agendas. Everything is run like a corporate office, Don. I don't even culturally relate to these churches and the life outlook. It is very upper class. Everything seems to be a competition. It is wearing. I did not expect these bible studies to be so controlled. The tendrils of places like Campus Crusade are far reaching. I heard that name and knew I had to get out almost right away.

Bible Believer said...

HI anon,

I gave up on churches and left the church system, and now I am going to give up on fellowship meetings and bible studies. I and my husband do have to go to some charity meals and food pantries, and a food co-op, so those will be last connections with churches but most of these are government sponsored charities. I have written about being poor on here before, some months less of this is required then others. So I am now in the place you re at, realizing in enough of them, if I try to talk or open up, now I am only going to be censored. The intense sameness of the churches around here, is interesting, I am old enough to remember before that happened.

I lost my whole family due to leaving the Catholic church, I paid many prices including being denied employment etc. My family is connected and has major Catholic connections. Today's poverty is linked to my spiritual choices. I was shunned too, and now I have no family but God convicted me to walk away from the wicked. I do sometimes wonder if my husband's career got sabotaged by connected family members but this is too much to share here. Just know in my family, many got 6 figure jobs right out of college, some didn't even have to go to college. An uncle was in Switzerland last month, and one was in England, while I went to the soup kitchen. I do not regret my choices. My mother and relatives have had dinners with Catholic bishops, one of my mother's friends was a very high ranking nun. My mother is friends with someone on Facebook who has friends in the Vatican. [this was kept from me but I found out before departing ways] Some may be shocked, you have no family left? A few I just walked away from on Facebook. I was a pariah the day I left the Catholic church and even before then for having a conscience.

I have spent years exposing the Catholic church, and am not going to abide by a group of people who accept it as a "Christian" church or seek to silence me in telling the truth. My husband was understanding and told me he was sorry I had to leave another place. God has gifted me with him being supportive of my faith endeavors including this blog.


Bible Believer said...

I have lost a lot of friends, some recently. Once I showed this blog to a would be friend I thought would understand, she was nwo aware but perhaps a trojan horse, and the friendship ended the very minute I showed her this blog, it just took some time to be shown.

Yes I have lost many many people due to my religious beliefs. All of us are put under intense pressure to conform. I wonder how many people even in bible studies like that suppress the truth to be liked and to "have friends" and not have another place they are forced to leave.

Even one Catholic person I know here, I witnessed to her, I got her interested in reading the bible, but she joined one of those ecumenical bible studies, and I know they will give her no truth. She is still happy to be Catholic. I was very direct with her how and why I left. I know I am seen as "crazy". I have had many people tell me I am crazy.

I lost a Lutheran friend, because of my beliefs about the churches, she was offended.

I lost acouple friends who were trojan horses, the one talking to me about curses. I believe this blog earned me her attention. What is weird, is on her website, her husband was making such an obvious hand sign, I asked myself "how could they think I wouldn't see it?" How did they not know when I met one in person I would "feel" something wrong or God would warn me?

Many people are "angry" at me and offended over my beliefs. I do not bang the bible at people or do the clashing cymbal thing, sometimes it is scary to just be me. Some people once asked my husband, "Why are you with her, and all her crazy beliefs?" There I had exposed just mild things...being an ex Catholic, and a born again Christian questioning the two party system. He ignore them or defended me.

Yes many of us are going to end up very alone, and no fellowships or prayer groups for apostles either.

What other choice is there but to follow God? Even if we lose everyone? I've had people even tell me I have entered "weirdo religious land" because I am "crazy" and "so disabled". LOL I may as well talk about some of the pressures I am facing here, why not? My husband is the only one I can tell this stuff too IRL outside of a few Christians.

It's painful stuff but I don't plan on selling out. We should all pray to God for strength.

Anonymous said...


Thanks for sharing.

Be strong in the LORD and in the power of his might. We are assured that all things will pass away except his WORD. And his WORD is for our life, preservation, wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Surely he will guide us even as the waters become more turbulent.

Be still and know...

Anonymous said...

When you are ready to move, let me know BB and I will help you. I am sure others feel the same way. - Don

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Don.

And thanks too Anon, I agree be strong in the Lord. Everything will pass away but God's Word. Maybe God has His reasons even for me to be here, though I may not understand it completely. I did get medical care here the other place would not have had and a diagnosis. We definitely need guidance in today's world.

Abigail said...

The closer I have become to Jesus, and the more obedient I have become to the Holy Ghost's leading, the more alone I am in my life. My daughters are my spiritual partners in this difficult journey and it is even harder for them. They are young and have rejected the culture that binds young people together. How are they supposed to find godly husbands? We have tried and tried but simply can't find a church to attend without grieving the Spirit, they have no interest in bars or facebook or internet dating--we have been praying for years and have yet to meet a single man who is godly. Not one! The men they meet are obsessed with video games and movies and porn--and these are the ones who claim to be Christians! We pray for a miracle, because they both long to be wives and mothers, and, without a church or fellowship, we realize only God can provide what they need.

Do any of you have any encouragement that I could share with my girls? I am lonely but have gotten used to the lack of spiritual fellowship. I realize that the friendships I have will always be limited and I am able to cope. But my daughters are losing hope and struggling with overwhelming despair. They are not sheltered "stay at home daughters," either. They are both out there in the world, working towards professional careers, and involving themselves in their communities, but it is just not enough to make them feel fulfilled. Please, if anyone has any suggestions or testimonies of God's provision in their own lives, please share! It is a difficult time to be a Christian, but almost impossible for the young. Any encouraging words would be welcome.

Bible Believer said...

Sorry you are facing loneliness too Abigail. I will pray for you and your daughters. How old are your daughters if you do not mind me asking. I am trying to think now where someone could find more traditional men who are apart from culture. I dare say that finding men in a more rural area, may make their marriage possibilities greater, they need old school Christian men who have not been brainwashed by culture. My husband is not saved but he is more "old school" but one reason I believe I ended up with him is he came out of a more traditional European household--his parents were immigrants to America. A lot of the video-game playing and others did not appeal to me. When I was young, I wanted someone who was intellectual too. In my case, I wrote an singles ad in a local newspaper to find my husband. I know this may sound an odd way to meet someone but I knew it was not going to happen in day to day life.

I do not think it would be wrong for young Christian women to find an alternative like that, a match making service or Christian dating service. One wants to be very specific in the ads what they want, and what their beliefs are. They also need to practice safety too, especially in today's world. Yes many of the Christians are as worldly but they could screen out what they do not want in the ad or in the service. Also keep in prayer for a good husband and good man.

The singles world is very upsetting and sinful so understand their pain and trouble. They need to ask themselves how do they find the men they want. I was not a Christian while I was dating but loved books and could not abide by men who were "players" etc. They need to find someone who shares their values.

I am glad to hear they are not SAH daughters but I have heard the dating world has become a snake pit from many single women. I remember my troubles in it 25 years ago.

Bible Believer said...

With the friends thing, I know that is hard too. Sometimes I have asked God how come I never meet anyone who believes the way I do. I am not some pious show off either. I have very rough edges, but the most mild statement, beliefs, etc has led me to lose a lot of people. It can bring one to a strange place, we question ourselves, "What's wrong with us, that we are being so rejected", I remind myself what the bible teaches about the world hating us. None of us desired things to be this way either. The world can put a lot of pressure on us to conform, this is one way it's being done today even to just have companionship. We live in different times now where Christianity is hated far more, and biblical beliefs are offending people. The churches have fallen away.

Many of my friends in my old town were elderly people with more old school beliefs. I know that sounds odd but my outlook matched theirs even as I was in my 30s. I try to find the people who are open to truth and not offended by what I have to say. They are out there, but seems I find them only online. I am not sure why IRL has been a litany of people who all believe the same. I feel for your daughters. I hope they can find good men who are loving and who love God. "Christian" today in these false churches won't even tell them what they are dealing with.

Anonymous said...

Speaking from personal experience, men's brains do not fully develop until about the age of 35. There is no law that says that people have to marry and Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians 7:8. I would tell you daughters to look for a man that is serving others, that is a very good indication of their heart and above all, loves the Lord more than your daughters. They should spent a lot of time with a potential spouse and get to know them very well. Wise decisions take much time and effort. This world is full of people that only think about themselves. - Don

Scott Wasinski said...

I have to agree with Don, whenever there is a "leader" that exercises headship, it is always suspect, because Jesus said that we are all brethren and One is your master, even Christ (Matthew 23). Some have the gift to teach and feed the sheep, but it's not through authority, it's through ability.

I think we all desire unity and fellowship. It's too bad that you were ostracized for speaking the simple truth of your conviction. I have one friend (and have met a few other people also) that is a true, genuine born again-believer that goes to Catholic mass. He knows that there are a lot of wrong aspects of it and does not follow the heretical dogmas and he also knows that the Pope is a fraud, but he says that that is where he finds familiarity and solemnity. I do understand his position, but I do not agree with his choice as being good. I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life, remaining in the secret place of the Most High, than to compromise true fellowship for an imitation. It's like going to McDonald's or making a well aged steak seasoned to perfection on a grill over hardwood. Once you get a taste of greatness, the warmed burger slop just cannot satisfy the hungry soul.

I think this is what the Word refers to as the isles that are afar off and the scattered sheep of His people. We will not settle for the compromise. I really do hope that in the days ahead, people of faith will get real with God and maybe during the great trouble that is to come, we shall find genuine the wilderness or in the living rooms of the hunted.

The IC will never offer real relationships. They cannot survive without teaching lies and censoring truth, because the Truth will bankrupt their businesses.

I'm not a robot (anymore:)

Eternally Home said...

Marriage only to someone in the Lord is acceptable! Don't permit their emotions to get the best of them or they will end up being deceived and married to a deceiver.

Dating services ads abound on the popular radio talk show hosts programs. So that says a lot. I've heard the ads. These "christian" radio shows are not biblical either. Their shows are ecumenical and not KJV Bible only and will never speak out against Roman Catholicism. How much time are your daughters spending in the word of GOD? It is not a sin not to be married!

Their true fulfillment comes with patiently walking with the Lord. Especially when looking for a husband! I pray for their peace and patience in waiting on the Lord and that they be not deceived!

Olavo G said...

I am just a born again christian from brazil, but I have to say that your blog and testemony have touched me. I can relate to some of your pains, here in brazil things arent as bad as in the US, but it is clearly going in the same direction. The true gospel is not being preached in most churches, and even some home churches are embracing the ecumenical thing. I have been blessed by our Father to have found true disciples here whonare discipling me, and have come to discover that we are in a lot of countries, including yours. We believe in holiness, in giving our lives fully to Christ, in living led by the Spirit, and follow the true doctrine found in the Word. If you want, I can talk with my pastors to see If we have brothers in your region, even though I do not know where it is. You can email me at olavo385 @ hotmail . com if you wish. Either way, I will pray for you, we are Christs body, and members must stay connected so the blood can flow. The days are dark, we must unite, even if its digitally (for now).

Anonymous said...

Hi Abigail,

I am a single woman in my early 40s (never been married and a virgin). I did want to get married in my 20s and 30s, but the question always remained "to who?"

I have been saved since my late teens and I realized it is hard to meet someone who is compatible spiritually. I believe as women we have the basic information on what is expected of us. Ref Proverbs 31. But are we to go out to find the man ourselves? In proverbs 18, we find that the man who finds a wife obtains favor from the LORD. So it is the man who finds and NOT women. But it is best that this man is a good man as in Proverbs 12.

So in the meantime what do we do? Fear God and obey his commandments, for that is the whole duty of man. (Last chapter of Ecclesiastes).

The other guidance I have found is in 1 Corinthians 7. Verses 7-8 Paul would like the single and widowed to be as he is (unmarried). Verse 28 "If thou marry, thou hast not sinned... Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh." This can be more clear in Romans 7 where Paul states that with the mind he serves the law of God but with the flesh the law of sin. Bottom line is that we have to check with what the WORD of God says every day (Psalm 119 - thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against you).

The other reason why I am still single is that I do not want to go through the marriage rituals. I have made some limited research and biblically, there is no specific ritual we are supposed to go through. Rebecca was brought to Isaac, Joseph took Mary and she became his wife. That's all. Then the vows... Jesus in Matthew 5:34 and James 5:12 discourage against making/taking oaths and require that our yays be yay and our nays be nay.

Jesus spoke of the one and only reason why a man should leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and that is because God created us male and female. In this day and age, NO man will come up with this reason. They will come up with, oh you are so beautiful, you would make a good mother to my children, can't live without you, etcetera... Ad nauseam.

The times we are living in now are also scary. How does one raise up a child in the way they should go with all the evil being bombarded at us? I have watched my nephew and niece play video games and watch the latest Disney cartoons, and seen that the games and cartoons targeted for their ages (10 & 8) would not be in my household if I had children. My children's entertainment be so censored, they would hate mommy - seriously (lol).

At the whole, we women, whether single or married, we should always and at all times align our decisions with God's WORD. (Psalm 119 - thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path)

Bottom line - all believers in the Lord Jesus Christ need to live according to the precepts of God for they are for our life, preservation, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding (Psalm 119).

Hope you and your daughters find this helpful.

The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want...

Eternally Home said...

Scott, "that is a true, genuine born again-believer that goes to Catholic mass." The Holy Spirit will not permit him to continue to do that! There is no communion with Christ and Belial!

That "born-again believer" is taking communion with a harlot so-called way!

Anonymous said...

Hi BB-
the links below have some wonderful tracts that you can print out for free or direct someone to- these tracts are perfect for Catholics. The minister who created these tracts is a former RC also. The last link contains his testimony. I have used this on FB and other online evangelism. God bless you.

Grammy G said...

Abigial-See yourself as Christ's Bride first and foremost. Knowing He is coming for His bride, think about preparing for Him to return for you. This sounds cliche' perhaps, but if your focus is on being His Bride instead of finding an earthly husband, He will bless you in ways you cannot imagine. Mostly blessings will come in the way that you measure yourself to this worldly kingdom, or His Kingdom. So many people desire the things of this world which can never fulfill. Desire the things of God and you will find contentment. Want what He wants for you. IF in the process, you find a mate who is Kingdom minded, what a blessing. Bless you dear ones!!!

Scott Wasinski said...

Eternally home. If it were true that the Holy Spirit wouldn't permit a born-again believer to have their own free will and make a choice to participate in an unbiblical gathering, then there would be no born-again believers in any of these daughter "churches" in the world. But the truth is that the voice of the Bridegroom and the voice of His Bride are heard in her (at the moment) because there are born again-believers that continue to go to these impostor organizations and participate in Christmas, Easter, Good Friday, and all sorts of other Satanically influenced unholydays.

The truth is that we all have our own will. We are not without fault and the Holy Spirit does not force us to obey Him. The scripture is given to instruct us. What we do with that instruction is our choice. My hope is that we all move forward and mature in Christ and put off the deeds of the old man as we are told to do.

I'm not a robot (anymore:)

Anonymous said...

In reference to Anon at 6:51 p.m.

I am sure this person is quite sincere in passing along these links for tracts. However, I would NOT RECOMMEND their tracts which I have read.

The site is convoluted and the tracts are too "in your face". I have seen these types of sites before and they turn out to have some false teaching on them.

For example, this site calls the doctrine of eternal security of the believer a "doctrine of demons". There are honest and sincere believers who disagree on this point but NEVER say it is from Satan.

They say if someone is a backslider that they have lost their salvation until they repent and change their ways. This is a dangerous doctrine IMHO. Are there any of us who have not at some point questioned our faith in a time of depression or great trial? The Holy Spirit does not make return trips in and out of a true born-again believer. People who go through a rough patch and then think they have to get saved all over again are soon defeated Christians and live in fear that they are going to lose their salvation.

Eternal security is not a license to sin or that sin is to be taken lightly. God chastens and disciplines His own and draws them back through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Therefore, I feel compelled to warn against the links listed. The Catholic tracts are factual, but the way to effectively reach Catholics or any other cult is to give them the true Gospel. Catholics have no assurance they are going to heaven - this is a good place to start. Let God's Word do the work and the Holy Spirit do the convicting. Don't start out telling them how bad their religion is and start listing all the false beliefs. That is a door-slammer for sure. Give them the truth and then if they receive, teach them solid doctrine that will expose those works of darkness. Yes, it is good information for yourself to be knowledgeable, but don't hand such a tract to a Catholic.

I am sorry to have to say this as I know that anon believed he/she was doing a good thing, so I say this with respect, knowing that this person would not want to see anyone misled and wants to see Catholics reached and saved.

Anonymous said...

Re: Anon on October 11 at 8:11 a.m.

Abigal has received some kindly and helpful responses to her situation with her daughters.

However, the above Anon went off the reservation when she indicated one reason she had not married was because she didn't want to participate in the wedding vows. There are laws to be respected and marriage licenses are required to validate the marriage legally. That protects the marriage and any children thereof. If people just made up their own vows and went off someplace and married themselves it would be chaos. God is a God of order. There are to be witnesses and when properly done by a pastor the commitment is made in front of family and friends. And all can celebrate and mark the day. Even people who elope have to have a license.

Also, it is understandable her reluctance to bring children into such a wicked world, but if God brings children into a Christian union, He will surely guide and protect that family. Yes, it is more of a challenge today than ever before, but that is no reason to not have children.

Abigail said...

Thanks to those that responded, especially anonymous at 8:11.

My daughters will remain faithful to Christ and His leading, despite their trials, and they have refused to compromise. That was kind of my point--they have not dated because they will not date anyone who is not a true Christian and they have yet to meet one.

I, like most of my friends back when I was a naive, church-going, more culturally enmeshed Christian, met my husband in church. Church was where the Christians were, or so we believed at the time. Without church, my daughters and I feel so alone. We know of no real Christians, only the Rick Warren, Jesus Calling crowd, and they are generally fake and passive aggressive. As these fake Christians date from a huge pool of eligibles, they taunt my daughters for being too picky, and ending up as cat ladies. Cruel. That is why I posted my request for encouraging testimonies here.

Telling my girls that maybe Jesus just wants you to never marry or have children would be the equivalent of telling someone with cancer that maybe Jesus wants them to die. It would be not at all helpful. Their suffering is intense, their obedience is beautiful, and their trust in Jesus unconditional. Wherever Jesus leads, they will follow, as they have been in the face of tremendous social pressure and peer disdain. They will continue to lead busy lives of service and obedience to the Holy Spirit's leading, but the lack of spiritual connections to anyone but the 3 of us is very lonely. What I was hoping people would share is the personal stories that BB and anonymous 8:11 wrote. Testimonies that show--"I have been there,too, and this is how Jesus helped me!"

I love this blog, but sometimes people can be a little harsh. Please be gentle with me. We are so alone and are already trying so hard to focus on Jesus. We could really use some love and encouragement here!

Anonymous said...

A scattered sheep here, waving my hand wildly, as we know He knows our name, He knows our story and He knows our heart. He has us scattered sheep in the wilderness for His greater plan ahead. We are blessed in the persecution and the greatest persecution will come from "Christian's" who worship a false Jesus, a False Messiah and a pagan God.

Faith in Yahshua Messiah is NOT a "religion" nor is He a "denomination". James 1:27 -
"Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

As the "churches" become more and more apostate and "worldly" more and more persecution will come to true worshipers who worship in spirit and truth. We have magnificent examples set before us in His Word who suffered enormous persecution, even our Messiah as He suffered the cross for such as suffer with Him. Oh, to be counted worthy to share in His suffering.

John 15:20
"Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If
they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."

Matthew 5:12 .
"Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the
same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

1 Corinthians 4:12
"When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;"

Matthew 5:10
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

2 Corinthians 4:9 ...
"we are persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed."

2 Timothy 3:12
"In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted..Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted."

Matthew 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and ...
"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death,
and you will be hated by all nations because of me. ...

Matthew 10:23
"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another."

Psalm 119:157
"Many are the foes who persecute me, but I have not turned from your statutes."
How grateful we are for His promises.

Bible Believer said...

Agree about men and age 35. Maybe older is better too. Find a husband who has advanced away from the video games.

It is true, and I should have brought this up as well not everyone is meant to marry. If your daughters do marry, that is good but one thing I want to add as a warning too, is tell your daughters to live their lives for today serving the Lord. There's a lot of single women ddepressed because they are not married and they are losing the joys of life in their singlehood. Hope this makes sense. Our society is mad, with the "couple up or you're nobody" stuff.

Leadership camp etc at churches is unbiblical, even the book of Galatians makes that plain. We don't need tutors and governors in the pew next to us.

Thanks anon who said it was too bad, yes it was. I was kind of worried when they talked about me while I came back from the bathroom too. I have to admit unless your friend is very simple minded, and God will know levels of innocent ignorance etc, I find it hard to understand any born again person sitting through and accepting a Catholic Mass. As the other poster said, the Holy Spirit would be telling them to leave immediately. Even some months before I was saved, I could no longer abide by the communion, and stopped taking it. Even at the time I could not explain it. Within days of salvation, I knew I had to get out. I would rather vomit then sit through a Catholic Mass, for me personally I could not do it even for a wedding, or other social event.

It is impossible for a Christian who is born again to sit there in peace because there is actual worship of the bread wafer. The priest bows before it. Old Latin Masses they kneel but now a bow suffices. One is asked, "Body of Christ?" [to say Amen at communion] There's a few very new newbies who get saved and need time with God to figure it out but they usually zoom out of there. [um it was not very many days for me]

Your friend sounds to me like maybe they know it is wrong but are choosing not to obey. That's serious business. Look I didn't even want to leave the Bible study, I thought, bad things about myself--oh will I never meet Christians I can get on with and thought, Oh come on I write this blog warning about the ecumenicals, I can't be a sell out and compromiser like that!" I also felt awful inside, like you know a Holy Spirit thing, like knowing these people were seeking after another spirit.

Please warn your friend at the very least, that the wafer worship is idolatry and beyond offensive to God, strip things down to the basics.

Bible Believer said...

Yes one thing do not allow daughters to be too desperate for mates, predators can get in and marry only other Christians, real ones. I am unequally yoked and while God blessed me allowing him to be "supportive", it gets difficult at times. I was not saved when married.

Welcome Olvavo. Thanks for informing us how things are in Brazil. Yes these trends are all world wide with the ecumenism and more. I am glad you have good fellowship, Thanks for your email. God bless.

Thanks for reminding us of Proverbs 18, I think it is better for a husband to find a wife. I don't think a woman doing it is "outlawed" but correct me if I am wrong. That is the ideal anyhow. Interesting on wedding rituals, I know some eschew the rings, I'm not legalistic about that. I am not sure if wedding vows would be against taking oaths. How would one determine who is actually married? Fornication is forbidden so where is that line drawn? I do think a lot of wedding rituals are peripheral, the garter, cake, white dresses, I was married but only had a semi traditional wedding. Of course there are the legal vows that were developed.

Yes the cartoons and more are scary. I agree regarding Psalm 119. I answered hoping to give hope for their desired marriages, but I think single women need to live each day to the fullest too and not just live in the future WHEN they are married. Some never do marry. I know at least 4 women around 50 years of age, who have never married. There are advantages to single and married life too, pros and cons. I know people do not want to be alone and understand that. A wife's work is never done that sort of thing. Single ladies don't have to worry about a man asking "where's dinner"? :P There would be more time to serve the Lord and oothers. I think our society sadly has thrown away aunties and single people and kind of blocked them out. I had some old article on here, asking why churches ostracize the single, I will look for it later since it is late.

Bible Believer said...

Some are disobeying God saying in bad churches. Some "know". I had someone tell me, they knew a church was teaching false things, but they said to me, "We do not want to be alone". Some fall for the churches aren't perfect line and propaganda. They always get me with that one, why do you expect churches to be perfect, churches are hospitals for sinners....

Witnessing to Catholics is tricky, I got out reading the hard and dirty facts, though I was saved finding out the gospel, but I know with others it merely is offensive and door slammng stuff. The websites with the hard and mean facts, serve a purpose. That is how I find out the truth about the Catholic church. I was hanging out on those websites a YEAR before I left the RCC. I had been told the gospel too, though I was not saved yet.

I suppose in prayer we have to take each individual. I did a direct witness to one lady and go her studying the bible, but sadly she got hooked up with an ecumenical group. Hey I tried at least she is reading the bible, maybe she will read Hebrews and Romans and or another book and a light bulb will go off. I sure hope so.

Anonymous said...

Yes, BB all we can do is all we can do and we have to leave the rest to the Lord. Bless you for trying to help that lady and consider those seeds planted.

I have had experience with Catholics and sharing the gospel is quite effective in opening their eyes to the truth because the true Gospel cancels out their false gospel of works. But you are right - it is an individual thing. Some are more entrenched than others and some are more receptive.

The hard hitting factual tracts dealing with the evil RC doctrine may have a place but IMHO not at first. They have to see the love of the Lord and know we care about them and are not there to simply bash their church as they would perceive it.

I agree that I cannot fathom a born-again believer with the indwelling Holy Spirit being able to partake of the idolatry of the Mass. There should be a check in their spirit. And those who stay because of family or the lame excuse that they can reach others are so wrong.

I respect your situation that you are very open about - that you are unequally yoked. But you stay with your husband and God gives you the freedom to do this blog with no opposition from him. It can't be easy, not being able to share Bible study and prayer together - women who are converted after marriage have a challenging role to be sure. Thankfully your husband loves you enough to care for you and give you freedom to honor the Lord in your life and does not come against that. And I sense there are many who are in this situation. May the Lord richly bless you and your husband and I pray that he will surrender his life to the Lord. In the meantime, peace and grace to you as you cling to the promises of God.

Rosebud said...

Wow! Surprised to come across this blog. I can relate. I live in a rural area of the great state of TN. I am experiencing much of the same. I have met a couple women who understand the Gospel (salvation thru faith alone in His finished work). They are somewhat a support as we pray for one another for one another. My husband and children are the biggest support. My children and adult, single son have absolutely gotten to the point that they REFUSE to go to church--the same old "business as usual" they say and too frustrating, yet they would be open to meeting with true believers with a heart to study the Scriptures and to sincerely relate to one another. Where are they?? In the meantime, we are reading our Bible and developing our personal walk and relationship with the Lord. It has been a lonely walk, but thorough it the Lord has grown our faith. We crave fellowship though we know several people and my children interact with several Christian kids their age. I believe the Lord will not forsake us and He must have a bigger plan....or be preparing is for something.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon @ Oct 11, 8:11am,

I'm Anon who went off the reservation.

Yes, I do sound terribly conflicted when it comes to marriage. But the one sure thing I know is that God's WORD is for life, preservation, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. And that was my conclusion.

I did not intend to misguide any one on here, I was sharing my story. Like Paul shared in 1 Corinthians 7. Whether married or not, it is our duty to fear God and keep his commandments.

The marriage laws you point to are worldly and NOT Godly. Read the bible and understand this please.

The guidance and protection in the Christian family comes in when both parents understand and obey the precepts of God. David was a man after God's own heart, yet he had chaos in his family. It takes total commitment to train a child in God's ways. It isn't as automatic as you make it sound.

All in all, I would that believers in the LORD Jesus live according to God's precepts regardless of their marital status.

The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want...

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon off the reservation. lol

Yes, God ordained the institution of marriage and it is to be finalized in a church setting.

However, we live in the world although temporarily and we are told in the Word to be law-abiding citizens. The law says that a couple needs to be registered to be married.
It needs to be recognized by the law for several purposes. Just as when a baby is born the child is issued a birth certificate to document the birth. A marriage license documents the marriage from a legal standpoint. This is for purposes of living in this world. We pay taxes, we own property and that has to be deeded properly. Laws like that are set up so that things are done in order. We have to have some structure in society. When children are born to a married couple they are determined as the parents and that is documented.

Yes, the law allowing same-sex marriage is against the Bible and it is the law of the land. But that does not negate the purpose of documenting a valid marriage. A Christian marriage has a dual documentation. First in the presence of witnesses, friends and family normally and with a pastor who joins the couple based on the Bible and Christian principles of marriage. Secondly, the legal part.

I sense your sincerity and desire to serve the Lord, but I sense you are somewhat naïve as to how we have to operate in the world.

Jesus says to give the government the taxes they require and give to the Lord what He requires. When we get to heaven we will no longer have marriage or any kind of laws because there will be no need for them. But in this fallen world laws are needed although the system is far from perfect.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Anon,

"Off the reservation" here.

Thanks for your comments.

But I will continue taking the WORD of God as my guide.

We are in the world, but not of the world. John 15.

The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want...

SJLC said...

Bible Believer, I would like to get to know you IRL and find out if there is any way I could help. There are a couple of details to work out first though.

One is that you've been burned so many times with false believers before, even with people who you had the benefit of seeing in person. Aside from figuring out whether I'm just another plant or an actual sibling in God's family, there is the question of exchanging personal information without exposing it to other not-well-meaning people on the internet.

For the main problem of trust, I doubt you currently know anybody who could testify to my sincerity and gift of helps. However I think you have the gift of discernment, so how about you take a look at this testimony video by a beloved brother and mentor. Notice that aside from this moving testimony recorded by the church he attends, he has nothing else online because he is busy with his street ministry to the homeless in New York -- rather than lining his pockets as a compromised mega-church preacher. He has had to quit co-pastor positions in other churches in the past because of not being willing to compromise.

If the Holy Spirit affirms to you that Roma is truly one of the elect, then we can figure out a way to exchange email addresses so I can put you in contact with him by phone and he can give me a recommendation like Paul used to do for his fellow workers. Or, perhaps the Holy Spirit will skip that step and just assure you that it's ok to start an email conversation including personal info like what type of jobs might be good for your husband.


Anonymous said...

I just have one question for "Off the Reservation".

Do Christian couples who get a marriage license and obey the law sinning? Where does it say in the Word not to obey the law of the land?

For you to say you will avoid marriage because you don't want to partake of wedding vows and be licensed by the government seems really off to me.

Would you not pay taxes? Where do you draw the line? Do you obey the speed limit? There are many laws that we obey every day.

I choose to be in the world but not of it also and want to obey the Word. But my marriage is recorded on the books and my husband and I own a home together and he is my spouse under the law and also under God. I don't see the problem!

Anonymous said...


"Off the reservation" here... Hi!

Like I have said before, the WORD of God is for life, preservation, wisdom,knowledge, and understanding (Psalm 119). But it is also a two edged sword (Hebrews 4:12).

Proverbs 4:7 "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

I do give to Caesar what belongs to him in terms of taxes, traffic laws, etc. And I give to God what belongs to God, obedience to his WORD.

The life I have chosen is also recognized in the book of Matthew 19:12 "...there are some eunuchs... which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Do I see a problem with other people getting married. No. That's their choice. My choice has been to live (or is it die daily - 1 Corinthians 15:31) according to God's WORD.

We are all to be judged by God's WORD and yet we are redeemed by the same (WORD became flesh) - thus the double edge.

Like Paul, who spoke of marriage as a mystery (Ephesians 5), I say the same to you - it is a mystery; yet I choose to excuse myself from its worldly rituals for the sake of the Kingdom.

Choose to live according to the precepts of God, ask for wisdom (James 1:5); the LORD will guide you.

The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want...

Anonymous said...

Interesting article and the compromise going on in the Bible study groups. This was the direction I was thinking about going but changed my mind.

Your comment about "I find it hard to understand any born again person sitting through and accepting a Catholic Mass. As the other poster said, the Holy Spirit would be telling them to leave immediately." This really hits home! Recently a woman that is supposed to be a Christian told of their daughter dating a Roman Catholic and going to masses and praying to Mary and the demeanor was not one of alarm at all. I thought how is it possible for this to be a regenerate Christian and not realize the spiritual danger?

After pondering all the former Roman Catholic testimonies I have read on your comments section and seeing the hand of God drawing one to Jesus Christ it is an encouragement.

I have also had Catholics testify to me of the abuse they have suffered at Catholic schools and it is painful to hear these stories but I think they need to be validated that these things really happened to them even if it is a near stranger that hears them.

Yes,there is loneliness,but I believe it is to draw you closer to Christ and drive you to the Word and prayer. I agree you cannot compromise with the ecumenical crowd.

"A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth." Isaiah 42:3

PJ said...

Hi Bible Believer:
I used to get regular email updates about your blog. I enjoyed these updates and got a lot of great information and awareness from reading them. For some reason I stopped getting them about a year ago. I thought you were off the internet for some reason. Glad to see you are still out there.
I read your article about Bible Study. It is very true everywhere and also very sad. But Jesus did warn us of this. I am learning more and more the persecution against those who want to stay faithful to Christ and His word alone, will actually come from others who call themselves Christian first and foremost. The world will persecute us too. But the heaviest attacks will come from other so called Christians.
I can relate to many things you mentioned in that blog.
I too have had experiences in the IFB churches and left.
I also grew up in a very evil and dark community in Ontario Canada. I was saved there, but not at a church or by anyone witnessing to me.
I have moved out west now and it is somewhat better. But it is quickly changing here too.
For the worse.
So dear sister in the Lord, don't feel you are alone. I understand the alienation, frustration, and discouragement you feel.
It is very, very, very hard to find true biblical teaching anywhere without it being mingled with the worlds, or mans ideas.
I think Christ is calling out a remnant for Himself who can face the spiritual warfare. A people who are totally committed to Him. Even it means isolation, rejection and suffering. He is purifying His bride.
The one thing I thank God for most of all in this world (aside for Jesus, the bible, my salvation) is that I have a wonderful Christian wife who knows and feels the same as we do.
It gives me much comfort.
We will pray for you.
If we can be of some encouragement in any way, let us know. God bless.
I am glad I can go back to checking out your blog regularly again.
Take care. Keep looking up and listening for the sound of the trumpet.