Sunday, September 4, 2016

Speaking Out Against the Last IFB

                                              [picture source]

I live in a small enough town, where I keep running into people from the IFB where I attended for year. Even 18 months later, they are coming up to me. They walk up to me almost glad to see the woeful sinner who is "skipping church" imaging some great tales of falling away or perhaps total apostasy. It makes me nervous. I am one of those shy type people that doesn't like being interrupted in public. More have talked to me coming up to greet me in public as a would be out of control sinner then I was able to talk to at the church.

 Most of the time when these people approached me, I just nodded and smiled and made boring small talk and made my escape but on the fourth go around, I thought, maybe I should tell one why I left. So I did. These may not be my exact words but I will basically paraphrase.

"I am done with church. Sure I may go to some community secular events or need a soup kitchen or do a non-pastor led bible study to meet Christians, but I am no longer attending church or any services.

I walked out hearing the Middle Eastern wars praised. You know the ones Bush started that have bankrupted America? They didn't get the memo yet he lied. I got sick of hearing more wars cheered for from the pulpit, whatever happened to pray for peace? I felt like the god of war, Mars was the true god there"

At this point she questioned the pro-war speech, and my husband walked up after getting something from the grocery store deli counter, and backed me up saying, "I heard that man too speak of how wonderful war was, and talk about killing and 'fighting for freedom', so she stopped arguing with me on that point.

"I am tired of Republican bots and brain dead Fox news brainwashing and no this doesn't mean the left is great either. I am tired of pastors who are incapable of independent thought, and who follow the status quo. Also praising war and putting down poor people and defending the oppression of the system is not of God. 

She quibbled a bit on my comment about poor people, but my husband backed up my claim there, reminding her of how the pastor railed against the poor, and how those who don't work, should not eat, yes that is in the Bible but so are dozens of verses against the oppression of the poor.  At that point I got a little irate, and said, "Look we are both college educated, look what happened to us, we are going to soup kitchens at times, and you think we want to sit there and listen to that guy rail against the poor?" We spoke of our uncomfortable time there being poor and how we were shamed and blamed. I mentioned to her how my husband had a career in which the field had been vaporized.

I also discussed more mundane issues, regarding the fact the church had no personal time among members. "I went there a year and everything was so centered on the pastor, I only got to know one nice lady who talked to me a few minutes after services". This was the most impersonal church I ever have gone to. She kind of surprised me here, saying something like people are too busy and I told her, "Well I think church is supposed to be more then just listening to a speaker at a lecture hall and then going home." and told her how my other IFB was far more personal.

She conceded my point that the bible studies being pastor led were boring, and involved no real discussion with him at the forefront. Here I was able to tell her I questioned the system of everything revolving around one man [the errors of the Nicolaitans] while conceding at least the church had a few elders in it. I questioned why was there so little personal relationships among the church body. She agreed with this part. She agreed the church had no activities outside of the sermons, and the pastor led bible study on Wednesday night.

What gets me, is before I started attending this church for that year, is I did meet with the pastor. I told him, "I don't agree with Dominionism" and defined what I meant. I told him, I want you to consider what some people warn of online about the "new world order", yes a lot of conspiracies are lies, but the Republican party is doing much against God.  He nodded and smiled at me and seemed open to my opinions, and I thought, "Well maybe this guy will have a few independent thoughts".

I surely didn't expect the man to rail against the Bilderberg Group from the pulpit but the mainstream Republicanism got to me. It rankled. Sometimes I got the feeling this guy was kidding us all. It's like he hadn't ever seen an alternative view in his life and lived in a cave circa 1985.  He praised a future war with Iran, ranted against Islam [yes it is a false religion but these were more political rants then religious discussions], praised war with all the Middle Eastern countries--Obama continued it all, ranted against the poor,  went on elegant soliloquies where he desired the 1980s would be brought back and said Reagan was the best president ever.

His and his wife's Facebook was full of Reagan worship. I suppose you can see why I didn't belong in this place. There was open and overt support of militarism with videos of marching soldiers.
I hadn't gone to church in 6 years and had a few months visiting a Calvary Chapel before I left and exposing that church on here. I was lonely for Christian fellowship. It was just more of the same.

These churches and these sold out pastors support the OPPRESSIVE system. You know the one where people are losing jobs, and losing their livelihoods? You know the one that is seeking the destruction of our souls and minds?  Probably now this guy is busy praising Trump from the pulpit. When more people lose jobs, and end up in the gutter, I wonder how long the rants against people on welfare will play out. He may find himself preaching to an empty room. I predict this church will fold when he dies. He is the only one holding it together. He is over 70 and at least one fourth of the church was related to him, so it won't outlast him.  It will die like my last IFB did when the pastor left.

These churches have no salt. They support the system of oppression. They are elite boot-lickers. They support the Pope in all the war plans. They bow at the altar of mammon and false appearances. This lady was ready to clutch her pearls. I don't mind speaking out. I hope she goes back and tells other church members what I said and why I left.

Leaving the IFB churches has changed me and coming out of the church system. I have had more thoughts lately about all the authoritarianism, the unity with the system these churches have in forwarding certain agendas. They never speak out for the abused, or powerless or poor. In fact they support those overtly who work against them as the powerful elite. They support the world system openly and overtly that is crushing us all. They tell us to "forgive" seared abusers, and to bow before our oppressors. Some of these guys surely look out among congregations where the working class has been destroyed, and still preach the same oppressive rhetoric. If anything they are helpers to the system in it's physically and emotionally crushing people.

 The desire for POWER and CONTROL seems paramount in these church systems where they desire people to conform. Otherwise why are all the pastors absolute conformists? Outside of a few shills like the deceased Last Trumpet Ministries guy who mixed numerology in with his sermons, I never have met or found one IFB pastor who was not just another spokesman for the Republican party.

I never fit in IFB culture. I tried to, I wanted to be a "good Christian" especially in my early days. Obviously if you have read this blog long enough, you know I am not going to fit in a liberal church either. I see through their lies as well. So there's no church place for someone like me. I believe we are being called out of the church system.

 The IFB wanted absolute conformity. Even my past seemed to count against me. My rural church was friendlier about that but I felt it even there. This one, seemed wary of me like I was "tainted", I had not been "born into" the church like most of them. They deemed me wicked for not having a family too. Meeting other fundamentalists online, and elsewhere one had to be cautious, I wrote about experiencing spiritual abuse with betrayers. It was all about the rules and control to people like this.

I don't regret telling that church lady what I did. Sometimes I regret not writing the pastor a letter and telling him why I left but I felt like God had warned me against this and/or told me to wait. I suppose I got tired of being silent, and being "dumbed down" not to offend anyone. I figure at this point when I told this lady what I did, there was nothing to lose.

I don't call myself a fundamentalist anymore. I have realized while some of my beliefs are traditionally "fundamentalist" in believing in the Bible and being against the ecumenical movement, I don't want people to mistaken my beliefs for being the same as the IFB because they are not anymore.

IFB Churches: Are they Daughters of Rome As Well

Articles on the IFB


Anonymous said...

BB, I consider you a friend. I understand having been out of the church building system for about a decade now. When I run into people that I used to "go" to church with the first thing out of their mouth is, "Where do you go to church". It makes me sick as they have no idea of what they are saying. I use to think the right response was, "You can't go to what you are". Now i just say, "I pray and read the bible everyday, but I do attend a building". Usually that is enough to change the subject. I guess I will always feel hurt by the church building system, knowing now it is just a business. - Don

Bible Believer said...

Thank you Don, you too. I am glad you have been out of the church building system for a decade. LOL all of the people asked, "Where do you go to church now?" It is weird, they are stuck in this certain mode of thought. That is a great response, "You can't go to what you are". I have gotten in a few conversations about the ekklesia but it has flown over heads. I changed the subject before hand. My husband has said he's been approached 2-3 times so add that to the 4. I said "None of them talked to us as much while we were going to the place as when we left. I will always feel hurt too. I know there probably is the strain of disappointment and anger I showed in my words too. Thanks Don.

Anonymous said...

I should have said in my previous comment "I do not attend a building. Fingers faster than brain. - Don

Anonymous said...

Thank you BB,

It is hard to make everyone see the truth. But we who have believed in our Lord Jesus, we should be thankful for the WORD of God. In Philippians 3, Paul encourages us to forget those things that are behind and press on to those that are before. And this is what every believer should do. There's nothing wrong with separating ourselves from the world, the book of Jude encourages us to do so. This will help in our preservation. Keep God's commandments and live. God bless.

Anonymous said...

I left the IFB movement about 4 years ago after yet another scandal - this time one that was too big to hide. Funny but sad - many in the IFB movement claim to believe every word in the Bible, (I do) yet when there are clear teachings about how to deal with sin in leadership, the truth is rationalized away in favor of silence. What does 1 Timothy 5:20 say? "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear". It in no way implies that sin in leadership should be covered up. Yet covering up scandal seems to be the IFB formula.

I'm attending a Calvary Chapel now. Expository preaching - line by line from every book in the Bible - not topical preaching that gives pastors the ability or excuse to avoid teaching on uncomfortable or inconvenient truths.

Charles Grey said...

When did the obsession with "achiever-ism" and dominionism take over the western church anyway?

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Don, I figured that is what you meant.

Yes we are to forgot those things that are behind. I do hope we are not approached anymore. My husband was several other times he told me about when I showed him this article. I agree about separating from the world.

Yes there has been many scandals in the IFB, too many sex abuse scandals and others and then there was the Jack Schaap one, they definitely are not following the teachings in the bible about leadaership. I need to tell you I have exposed Calvary Chapel on here....I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but I visited a Calvary Chapel [just found out it is defunct there was only 20 or so people in it when I was attending] between the two IFBs. Many do see it as an alternative to the IFB, but there's serious problems there too.

The achieverism and Domionionism is definitely worsening. I don't know when it really got rolling...the achieverism I think sparked off in the 1980s and the seeds were sew via the moral majority etc, around that time for the Dominionism but there were roots planted even before then in the 50s and 60s.

Bible Believer said...

seeds were sown...Sorry typing too fast.

Anonymous said...

There are pastors who are leaving Calvary Chapel and those in the process. We need to pray for them. Those who stay will be further deluded.

Bible Based Christian said...

The north wind driveth away rain: so doth an angry countenance a backbiting tongue. Proverbs 25:23

And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
For some are already turned aside after Satan. 1Timothy 5:13-15

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Romans 12:3-16

Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints; Phm 1:5

¶ For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: 2Co 9:1

Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 2Co 8:4

All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household. Phi 4:22

¶ Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: Phi 1:1

¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Eph 1:1

All the saints salute you. 2Co 13:13

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. Colossians 3:12-17
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 1Pe 2:5

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Jud 1:19

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Hebrews 10:24-25

Ruth said...

It's quite something to read the scriptures just posted to admonish the blog writer for leaving a bad church. It's not as if we are living in days of rampant apostasy and wolf-filled pulpits. It isn't as if what used to be known as Protestantism hasn't been infiltrated by Freemasons, Jesuits, and Christian Zionists. It isn't as if the devilish lies of Dispensationalism haven't destroyed the identity of God's people, twisted the meaning of scripture, and stripped the Gospel of much of its wonder and consolation. It isn't as if Rick Warren's fat, filthy fingerprints aren't all over the "missional, intentional" churches whose congregations are browbeaten to work for the pastor's latest "vision casting," thus unknowingly helping to build the Antichrist's kingdom. Oh no. The churches are just fine and dandy. The problem is a disillusioned sheep who is wandering around on the mountain. Did it ever occur to the previous commenter that at this stage in history, there is wisdom in avoiding bad churches? To the blogger: May I recommend you search for an independent Reformed Baptist church. There is none of that horrid Dispensationalism to mangle the interpretation of the Holy Bible.

Anonymous said...

There's so much to comment on, but the one about not ever finding an ifb pastor who was not a spokesman for the Republican party reminded me of a seemingly pretty nice young man with an ifb in ft Lauderdale. When I first became enamored with that church, I thought I might travel there and attend sometimes if I get to move back to Florida. I looked up the church address, and found it in a strip mall in Coral Ridge, nice and humble looking to me. I panned around, and sure enough...they would probably be in the shadow of the monstrous obelisk of Kennedy's Coral Ridge on a summer afternoon. But the church seems pretty decent, evening the young man is a little more conservative than i wish he was.

What I was posting this for (given an opportunity to speak, I get wordy): on the YT video about politics, the young guy says "Come on, people: it's over..." So, they'd probably never trust me, but that's a church I might visit as a dread "church tramp" every once in awhile.

I don't agree with you 100% about everything, but I have found enough here to be grateful for finding it. God bless you,. In Jesus, Linda

Bible Believer said...

Thank you Linda, hope this blog has helped.