Monday, January 4, 2016

IFB Churches: Are They Daughters of Rome as Well?


Some may be shocked at this question or maybe not since many like me who read here have come to the conclusion the entire church system is false. This includes the independent fundamentalist Baptist church system.

I know some of my readers may even attend IFB churches. I'm not going to put you down. I hope I don't upset you with this train of thought. It's getting woefully hard out there to find any good Christian fellowship. There are some rare independent churches perhaps where one can speak some truth and still grow, and well others where, that is over with long ago. There are places that have sincerely born again pastors. Go where God leads you. As you all know I have left the church system. I am done now even the independent fundamentalist Baptist churches. At this conjecture, going back is not happening. Sometimes it's hard, this can be a lonely road.

I kept thinking about some things though...having visiting several IFB churches and watched a lot of their services online, why are so many of them the SAME? You would think INDEPENDENT would bring DIFFERENCES? Many of the pastors are educated via the same series of bible schools and seminars. Even my first IFB pastor yes went to Hyles Anderson college and returned for seminars. Him and his wife visited the First Baptist Church of Hammond years ago. I didn't known of those things regarding that false church until after moving away and starting this blog. There I read some of the crazy doctrines for myself that Hyles taught. His books always bothered me. The scandals via Jack Schaap later came to light.  I don't think I even discussed this even here, because it was painful to face these things. I would ask myself, "Why didn't that pastor see through those deceivers?"

 Even though I liked this pastor and enjoyed this church family, the me of today is a different person. Would the me of today be able to fit in that church again even though the people were more friendly and more kind to the poor? Probably not. Even there I disagreed with that pastor in his praise for G.W. Bush in 2004 and sought to tell him the truth and wrote him a letter. He apologized for getting so political in church and we worked things out.  I told him once, that most churches were falling away and many were leaving the church system, and he disagreed with this saying one must be a member of a new testament church. He warned me not to listen to deceivers online saying that false teachers were preaching to leave the church system. I still have friendly contact with him and other church members long distance but they all celebrate mainstream holidays from Halloween to Christmas. I can't tell people what to do but it bothers me. All still vote Republican even with my warnings of ten years ago. No, I would not fit there today.

One thing I have faced is culturally I never "fit" in the IFB world too. Spiritually I have walked out the door. No longer will I be trying to fit a square peg into a round hold. A person becomes born again, and is lead to love for God's Word and wants to find a place that seeks after truth. If you know certain things, and listen to a guy rant for tithes and go on about how the Rapture will rescue us all from suffering, it gets really old after a time.

 I felt I had no other choice in churches since only IFBs preach against the ecumenical movement. A few other churches do too, but they are cults like SDA off-shoots or sacramental and liturgical  like WELS. In wanting a church, to me, they were kind of the only game in town. What other choice was there? Who among us doesn't want fellowship with other Christian believers? Even the 1 percent of churches that "officially" denounce Rome really serve Rome as well. Organized religion is a racket.

Just like the Christmas thing where the pressure to conform is so great, I run into people who know it is pagan and sun-worship who still celebrate it, the pressure to find a good church for like minded people is out there too. I was out of all churches for several years but made an attempt to re-enter another one, only to see the false teachings reach to the ceiling. I am weary even from my years of trying to talk to people in my old church family about what I discerned, only to be ignored. Many were friendly and nodded and smiled but didn't want to be a "weirdo" like me I guess.

Culturally I was too poor and didn't have the white picket fence or the "nice" family to really fit into IFB churches. A lot of things I overlooked like the constant cry for women to obey husbands and even in my good IFB, the women there told me, I had to obey my husband, and this pastor's wife passed out the book Fascinating Womanhood. The sharp edges of the patriarchy movement were in all the IFBs I attended. It was even there to a degree in the Calvary Chapel I visited for a short time. At the time, I knew the bible did teach a role of leadership for men in the home so had no issue with that but have only grown more disturbed realizing what I do about the Patriarchy movement. It is a movement to sanction abuse of women. Don't forget the Duggars are "officially IFB". I was around homeschooling parents all over the place and people who even dabbled in Quiverful. My life didn't match theirs at all. I was an outliner from the very get-go.

Among some of them, not all, my past in the UU and Catholic church seemed to taint me. My old IFB had a few born again converts in it, so I wasn't as lonely there, but the rest I visited or attended, most were part of entrenched families and had been "born" within the church just the same as the Catholic one.

 One thing to be observed is these INDEPENDENTS have just as much of a hierarchy system, and overseers, except it is much more informal. The pastors are going to fundamentalist bible colleges instead of seminaries, but there are still the lauded "star pastors" and ones who write books. The big whigs from Bob Jones to Rice would be the "bishops". They definitely have their freemasonic and luciferian infiltrators paying homage to the politicians too. All of the big whigs were slavish defenders of the Republican system.

Some time ago I wrote "My Questions about IFBs and Baptists"

I wrote this list of things within the IFB I disagreed with: I still disagree with these things


 "Many IFB churches teach these things I do not agree with and have exposed on this blog:

1. Dispensationalism. [a Pre-Trib Rapture] This is the majority by far.

2. Christian Zionism. Some stress this more then others.

3. Dominionism. This has grown even more in the churches from what I have personally seen.

4. Only some teach this but it's growing out there: The Patriarchy Movement.

5. Support of the Police state, Skewing of Romans 13 and Jingoism.

6. Authoritarianism

7. Pastor Networks that don't seem any different from the rest of the churches.

8. Tithing

9. The One Man Show. [some of course are better then others on this one, allowing other men to preach, elder system

The other day I had the thought, that even with the war mongering from the pulpits I saw myself, the IFBs are serving Rome. How? Their love of war and Christian Zionism works too for the agendas of Rome and the Antichrist. The blood lust spoke for itself. There was nothing Christian about that day when I sat there hearing the pastor's son who had been in Iraq glorying in murder for the globalist state. To be frank, in the war support alone, most IFBS are serving the freemasonic and luciferian masters. That day still gives me nightmares. A blond man at the pulpit, gleefully speaking of killing. His brother with his veteran's thousand yard stare sits in the pulpit eyes remaining straight ahead. I think there is a reason three of the pastor's sons have gone to the Middle East to wage war on the "infidels".

The Dominionism, Pre-Trib Rapture, false millennial teachings too also serve the interests of Rome and Babylon. No longer could I sit there listening to this nonsense. There were years where I hoped to have communication and wanted those personal relationships. I noticed as the years passed by the churches got more controlling, all Bible studies in this area were under the direct supervision of the pastors. There was no questioning allowed or discussing even the bible in depth among ourselves.

I have realized even if an IFB pastor and church speak against Roman Catholicism as a false religion and the Pope himself, it doesn't mean they are not serving a set role from Babylon headquarters. The entire list above, are orders on high from the Pope. Christian Zionism serves the role of supporting the building of the Antichrist's future world headquarters.

I have for years been concerned about other trends in the IFB

1. Child sexual abuse and other abuses. "Breaking the will of the child" No, not every IFB attender is a child abuser. Some pastors are decent sorts, but I even read for myself the crazy books written by Jack Hyles in my good IFB that constantly spoke of "Breaking the will of the child". I disagreed with the man but didn't realize these were widely held opinions. I never saw out and out abuse in the churches I attended but I noticed the love for totalitarian government in the Dominionist world was spilling out into an overall authoritarian theme. This is what led me to write the Oppression of Youth article.

2. The weird schools and abusive homes and rest for children. Hezbipah House would be one chief among them. Even the weird rules of the bible colleges and more bothered me. The Catholic church had its Magdalene Laundries, the IFB had Hezbipah House and other weird oppressive institutions. Josh Duggar is even supposed to be in some creepy IFB punishment center called Reformers Unanimous.

3. The brain dead Republicanism got worse. It didn't get better. Even if Obama is wicked, it doesn't make the other side "good". Every IFB I ever have been in, subscribed to the brain dead Republicanism. After I move, I never met one "new world order" aware person ever again in real life. Online, I meet them all the time and here too but in the churches it was political brain dead city. The pastors continued the Babylon ordered rants against Muslims, and war mongering and praised astrology loving Ronald Reagan as a political saint.

4. The pastor centered churches, where the world of the church revolved around the pastor. I saw this in the last one. Four families in the church were his relatives. Even if your pastor doesn't break out the funny hats and long robes, if the shows on him, he's doing the exact same thing as any bishop or priest.

5. No IFB I ever have seen has taught against Christmas and/or Easter or other false holidays. They follow the same sun false church calendar as Rome too in celebrating these holidays. The holidays that follow the "heavens" celebrating the solstices every year speak of whom these people really worship.

6. The off-beat ones, many seemed "owned" and controlled mixing truth with lies. Think Steven Anderson.

7. Every IFB I have ever visited has the Dominionist Christian flag in it. The last one did too.

The control matrix of the IFBs for the politicians and world controllers work the same as they do in other false churches.

I'm out for good now. I have given up my dream of finding an independent "good" Christian fellowship or church. I never want to attend an IFB again either. Who knows what the future holds but right now I consider IFB churches daughters of Rome too. Sorry if this offends you but it's true. Maybe some will be offended at this article. I know it is a risky one to write even knowing some readers are still within IFB churches.

Rev 18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Falsehoods and Falling Away in the Fundamentalist Churches


45 comments:

Christsfreeservnt said...

We left organized religion, i.e. the institutional church (NOT the true church) for many of the same reasons as you stated. I think maybe we talked about this before. Anyway, I empathize with you in many respects. I long for the kind of Christian fellowship and teaching of the Word I once knew but doesn't seem to exist today, at least we haven't found any near us. Sometimes I just break down and cry over it, and yet I believe that as things grow from bad to worse in our nation, though many will fall away, I do believe a remnant of the church will get right with God and that many will flood to Jesus Christ before he returns. I know not everyone here agrees with that, and I don't intend to debate it, but that is my hope that if I should survive until that time, that via persecution of the church many will turn their hearts back to God and we will have that kind of fellowship once more even while we are still on the earth. Yet, if I never experience it here again, I know it awaits me in heaven. Amen!

Anonymous said...

Good post, BB. I have to say that "the me of today is a different person" is my favorite statement. It is apparent that the more Christlike we grow, the easier it is to see His truth. You have made a lot of excellent points, especially about the "blood lust". I look back today and the building system is just silly. Like yourself, I long for true fellowship with other believers and one day we will have it forever. (1 Timothy 1:17) - Don

Anonymous said...

dear bible believer do you agree with ephesians511blog.net or anothervoicerev184.blogspot.com all the time? and do you read to old testament.

Anonymous said...

Once one leaves the church system, and you see it for what it truly is, you can never go back in. I now feel safer outside the "system" than inside. Many are 501c3's and that is not going to bode well for them. They are now state churches. And with the LGBT movement in overdrive, wouldn't surprise me if there are plants in these churches right now ready to take the pastor and the church down if they should speak against this movement behind the pulpit and/or refuse to marry them. You know, like "sleeper cells." The issue today is the condition of the church and that is clearly an indicator that we are living in the last of the last days. Hello! Think Laodicea...Rev 3;20, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: IF any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." This verse is about the condition of the church TODAY! These churches are not filled with the Holy Spirit OR they have quenched Him so much. Remember when denominations taught their own doctrine and that was how you could identify what exactly they believed. You knew what you were going to hear preached and taught when you went to a Lutheran church or a Baptist church or Presbyterian. You knew their differences. Well, today I could (and I have) attend 5 different Baptist SBC) churches in my area and every one of them is teaching different doctrine. That right there shows what a mess the church is in. NO ONE IS ON THE SAME PAGE!!!!!!! Who has the "truth." Each one of them will say that their church is in truth, all the others aren't. Since leaving the "system," I defer to the Holy Spirit for teaching the Word...His Word! That is where I will get truth. Man is too caught up today in the "traditions of men." That is exactly what the Pharisees did. They wound up with religion and not their Messiah, Jesus Christ. There is nothing new under the sun.

Anonymous said...

Many have ears to hear but will not. Many have eyes to see but they will not, therefore God has given them over to deception. Believers want to play in the sand and cannot fathom snakes live there too. When you warn, they cringe because they do not want to lose any ounce of "fellowship" and the social standing they have found in buildings. They would rather close their eyes and ears to choose lies and deception for the sake of their comfort and pleasure. The Lord said we cannot be a friend of the world and be a friend of God. In fact it makes us enemies of God when we embrace the world. This includes churches with false doctrinal heresies and false appointed pulpit pastors who are not sheep at all let alone having the gift of pastor. The world doesn't have to be known for being outside of a church building. The world is now in church buildings that are not churches at all. The church is us, the body of Christ, we are His temple and He lives in us. God does not reside in buildings, governed by men who lord over the flock for ill gotten gain. We are most blessed to live before God in obedience, denying ourselves when believers celebrate in religious ceremony to give their money to those who spend it foolishly. On several occasions I have known of pastors wanting to spend hundreds or thousands on stage props to appease their audience. How many pay musicians to play for their services in the thousands per month. God's Holy Spirit teaches us all things. We need not to trust in man.

Anonymous said...

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/most-damaging-attitude-our-churches

Anonymous said...

One of the Baptist c'hurches down the road here has on its bulletin every Sunday, under Prayer Requests:

"Pray For Church Leaders and Their Families"

Guess our LORD Jesus Christ doesn't care about the lower laity within the hierarchal system of this c'hurch. Is it any wonder that c'hurches such as these have high rates of divorce, drunkenness, and sexual perversions amongst its leadership as well as the laity. When the ground at the foot of the Cross of Christ is not structured on equal ground, the believer and follower of Jesus is walking amongst the wolves in dangerous territory.

Why are pastors/priest/nuns waited on hand and foot within the religious systems, meanwhile the poor, sick, widowed, the lonely, the struggling are ignored amongst the church goers? Guess the jesus of our own making loves the 'top guns.'

Bible Believer said...


Christsfreeservt, I'm glad you left too. Nope it's not the true church at all. Yes we have shared these things on here. I am glad you empathize. Yes most are fallen away and you will hear only skewing of God's word for gain in many of these false churches. I do think more will be called out as time goes on and things worsen among the wolves. Persecution could bring it out. You are correct.

Don, thanks regarding my statement, about me not being the same person anymore. My eyes were opened even regarding wickedness on the personal front with wolves surrounding me not just religious front. I think God will show us more as we progress along in life, it is true. Thanks for understanding what I meant about the blood lust, I was so horrified during that moment. Yes the building system with its busy work seems absolutely silly. Yes one day we will have true fellowship forever, people we can be real around.


Anon, I do not agree with those blogs on everything. That's impossible. Yes I read the Old Testament too.

I feel safer outside the system now too. I was so repressed and felt like I was hated even for mild words and the fakeness wore down on me. It occurred to me that if some of these pastors found this blog and knew I wrote it, they would be outraged so what was I doing there? More of them are in with the 501cs system and I have read recently that Southern Baptist churches are going to ordain gays now. So they are going step by step, and the independents will be forced to do it too.

Not an endorsement of NTEB

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/baptist-churches-start-to-ordain-homosexuals-and-perform-same-sex-marriage-rituals/

So yes they have their "sleeper cells" in there and probably the trans movement getting ready too.

The denominational differences have changed, often via the parachurch movement, there's been a blurring. I agree this is where one listens to the Holy Spirit not the traditions of men.

Bible Believer said...

Per the above, all the homosexuals and trans are being betrayed. The trans movement is destroying lives. I have met someone who left the trans movement and thankfully kept their body intact with no mutilations. He even got a wife. He is not a Christian, but they are messing with thousands of peoples lives and Satan's lies are literally destroying people.

Anon, I agree many will not see or hear and refuse to, some have willingly accepted the blinders, the pastors are never to be questioned and they are horrified at the idea of anyone leaving the church system. Yes they cringe because they do not want to lose "fellowship" or "social standing". It makes people uncomfortable. I lost a friendship well more then one, over my leaving the church system. One friend was outraged I was daring to "Go it alone". Of course she is immersed in even more false doctrine. I agree God does not live in church buildings, and the church is in us. The ekklesia is not church buildings. Many of the larger churches are putting out thousands on staff and stage props and programs. I know a woman who left the corporate world to be hired in a church staff position that is non-ministerial and makes the same amount of money. The system has outgrown itself. It seems a lot of pressure for them to keep people coming and to keep everyone paid which of course will lead to more compromise and apostate things like honoring Star Wars.
continuing...

Bible Believer said...

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/most-damaging-attitude-our-churches

That article is interesting, I have seen others like it which tell people to shut down their thinking and to go along to get alone. Anyone who questions the pastor is cynical and mean and judgmental and unloving. Of course on here I exposed those church covenants where one was not supposed to question the pastor and one was to sign off against "gossiping". I wrote about a Southern Baptist church that had those covenant rules. It is blind obedience 101. Get others to judge dissenters as cynical busy bodies. Most of us who have left the system have spent many hours alone in prayer or thought wondering if it is us that is wrong. Since I don't have a family or very limited contact with few there, I even worried I was buying myself more social isolation and even thought "What kind of life will I have without a church family" [you know a building centered one] They want people to doubt themselves and quell the warnings of the Holy Spirit that say "Get out, Get out!" My head would hurt hearing some of the false doctrines in the last church, my hand to my forehead, and I would think, why do they all teach the same wrong things? I realized I was not given any place to address these matters either. There was no communication of back and froth. Just edicts given from on high.
continuing...

Bible Believer said...


Anon, I got tired of the demands to pray for well set pastors and others. We were always told to worry about their "suffering" and their "well-being". Obviously in the last church, only one widow was in the place and she had the support of a loving family and was friends with a Quiverful influenced family. There wasn't one other single or child-less person. I suppose they had left. Everything was about the pastors, and they were the center of attention. You know some of the pastors seemed to be nice guys, but I wondered why are they always at the center of everything? I had some strange thoughts even sitting in IFBs over the years, some of the pastors had their wooden more simple "thrones" at the front of the church, the attention was on them as much as any Pope or priest. My 'good" IFB collapsed and shut down just because the pastor left for greener pastures [a church in an economically dying rural town wasn't going to keep him financially secure]. What did that say about that church? This happened after I had moved away. Even the last one, the pastor is in his 70s, he started the place, when he dies will it collapse? So much man-based stuff, and ONE man too. There's no real fellowship when one man is at the center of everything.

Then looking at the sexual perverts, look at how much they get away with like Jack Schaap, because everyone is falling over themselves to please the pastors. No one questions them. The power goes to their heads. I also had the thought that people who love attention focused on themselves and who love to be on stage and can speak well, that the danger of narcissists and sociopaths is far higher. The Bible would call them reprobates. Religion becomes a money and attention game. The Duggars are an example of that.

It sickens me how human beings worship the power of the wicked. So the sociopaths and reprobates with their fake smiles, and directing people to obey every word get away with far more. I agree if there is no equal ground, it is error of the Nicolaitans.

They are all waited on hand and foot. They are considered "more special". Even the ones who do away with the robes, the pastor is still the center. The poor, sick, widowed, lonely and struggling are ignored, indeed. I think of the last church I was in, the fact there was only married intact middle class and above families said everything I wanted to know. They only love the top guns. I had enough of this in my sociopath directed wicked family, only people who made great money and had good health were acceptable. I wasn't going to put up with it in a "church". On the personal level, I want to reach out to those who are struggling, let them have their power games they are devil derived.

Christsfreeservnt said...

This is cross-denominational and it comes from high up in the church "food chain." How do we think Rick Warren gained such popularity across denominations in such a short period of time to where they were all following him and his methods hook, line and sinker? This is a conspiracy against the church that is of Satan and he has used people in the church in high up positions to get their pastors to buy into this stuff so they are mostly all regurgitating the same stuff. It is man-made religion and the goal is to destroy the gospel and its messengers and to make the church just like any other social organization on the planet. Come one, come all. It's party time, they say.

Anonymous said...

An interesting read, as this blog also continues to become more interesting over time, in many ways.

All organised religion is not founded in New Testament Scripture, none of it. There is only the gathering of the followers together, and if some of those have a set aside meeting house then that is their own business to maintain it, and if they want a leader of that meeting house then they have to maintain him and his family too - though even this is unscriptural.

For we are the temple of God 1 Corinthians 3:16
We are each the building stones of the church and Christ our cornerstone 1 Peter 2:4-7 Ephesians 2:20
There is only one mediator between God and man, which is Christ Jesus (no churches and no priests and no queen of heaven) 1 Timothy 2:5
Matthew 18:20 tells us what a Christ blessed church is.

Here are some real churches (assemblies) for our example:
- Romans 16:5 house of Epaeneties
- Romans 16:10 house of Aristobielus
- Romans 16:11 house of Narcissus
- 1 Corinthians 1:11 house of Chloe
- 1 Corinthians 1:16 house of Stephanas
- 1 Corinthians 16:19 house of Aquila and Priscilla
- Phillippians 4:22 house of Caesar
- Phillippians 4:15 Nympha's house
- 2 Timothy 4:19 house of Onesiphorus
- Philemon 1:2 house of Apphia and Archippus

The derivatives from Rome are the daughters of Rome, they changed very little but in protest of the excesses of Rome. Rome is the daughter of Babylon and the daughters of Rome are the grand daughters of Babylon. But those which later became apostate were infiltrated, likely by a different force, just as the Millerites and all their derivatives were created by that same different force outside of Rome, and the Mormons also created by the same force but separate from the Millerite movement. Regardless of whether today they are all being pushed into the bosom of Rome, this doesn't mean Rome created them, only that Rome has been deemed to be the mother over all of them in this time.

Some of the other societal narratives I have to disagree with, as some are in agreement with NWO narratives to modify our societies for their purposes.

I would also not follow some of the eschatological or theological suppositions in this article, which is fine, we can all disagree on many things, except the fundamentals, so theres no problems here with me, we're all led in different ways, and you may be wrong or maybe I or maybe us both, and all others here reading, we'll all get the truth in an instant at the end, the minors do not matter.

And with utmost respect I know your credibility has been called into question on this post and some other posts in the past. Which is also fine, and of which I have defended the blog author myself, we all must be open to scrutiny in any areas amongst fellow believers and each must be ready with an answer for our own hope in Christ and for what we believe, and we can also respect each others differences in minor matters. Though I must say it would go a lot further in dispelling some doubters if the blogger could more succinctly discern when there are wolves in sheep's clothing commenting on the blog, when so many can clearly spot them and their tactics. I am not speaking about the misled Millerites proselytizing for their religions, or the goats who wanna be sheep. But the real ravening wolves with sharp teeth sent here to bring deceptions, cause divisions, and scatter the flock through their subtleties and misleadings. I can only pray for your own, others,and my own discernment in recognizing these hidden deceivers. God bless.

Bible Believer said...

There's a lot of fake commenters, and even if I post them doesn't always mean I endorse them.

I don't have time to sit and analyze and "discern" every one. Sometimes I have had doubts even for a time.

There's people playing double and triple games, and even "manufactured fights". There is a LOT of comments I do not post. I doubt you want to see the thousands of comments in my Spam file where the nonsense is kept.

Some simply lie and hide [even for years] their crazy beliefs. They love to do set ups that way. I had three or four of those, there maybe be one or two now,

Then there are the ones who act like they are in agreement on some things and then do a sudden turn around and defend some ravening obvious wolves like the guys on TBN.

If you would like to start a blog, where you have perfect discernment over every commenter [I do allow some to post disagreement here which may be a bad idea at times] then you are welcome to do so.

Bible Believer said...

I agree about Rick Warren Christsfreeservt, definitely via the parachurch movement and his influences they were able to "standardize" the churches just like McDonalds are the same everywhere so are the churches, and that goes for the IFBs with their program of Christian Zionism, Republicanism and belief in the Rapture.

Christsfreeservnt said...

BB - Could you define for me what you mean by "Christian Zionism"? I know what Zionism is, but not sure what you mean here. Or else, could you point me to a link where it is explained? I assume by Republicanism that they teach the right is the right way and the left is the wrong way, i.e. evangelical denominations tend to be Republican? Personally, I don't believe there is a left or a right, for they all answer to the same people. I don't believe in the pretrib rapture, either, though I certainly yield to my Lord on that subject and will be happy whenever he decides to return. I think we are in sync about a lot of things here, though not all. I do enjoy reading your blog. Thank you for writing back. You can call me Sue.

Anonymous said...

Christsfreeservant,

Cannot speak for Bible Believer here, usually identify myself as Anonymous. Speaking from experience with many churches in our area, most do identify themselves with a political party or movement. Those churches who literally label themselves 'conservative' promote celebrity icons such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, and Mark Levin with their social circles, often called fellowship, within their church walls. I sat under an AOG pastor who held up Mark Levin's book "Liberty and Tyranny" from his pulpit and promote its contents as if it were the Word of God. He recommended that all of us read this book, but put in a disclaimer that Levin's radio program contained foul language and that it may not be the best commentary to listen too. How nice of him. This was a Republican church and the Democrats were constantly being mocked, berated, and condemned with the mouth; mine included to my gross shame. The emails I received from elder board/deaconesses from the political realm were disgusting and filthy and I always felt dirty when reading their so called 'jokes and puns' all the while condemning Democrats for 'playing dirty.' Jesus delivered me, literally, out of the filth and drudgery of politics, Praise His Holy Name, and I can now see there is basically no difference between the dealings of both parties.

Other churches that I have attended support the 'social justice' doctrines all the while living like pagans/heathens. Their version of Christianity resides in promoting the self, getting drunk on a regular basis, and lording over other folks for they secretly desire to be worshipped and looked up to in the community. When a believer speaks of Jesus and His Ways with these church folks, you are labeled a "kook," a "loony," or any other derogatory name to shame you to your face and your reputation within the community. People love to tell you that your salvation rests upon your 'church membership, church attendance, church giving/mammon,' and yet when the Spirit is leading you to the fellowship of Christ, desiring to share what He is showing you, the churched think you are crazy.

Most churches don't desire Jesus, but they do need the numbers to applaud the leadership and stroke their egos on a constant/weekly basis, they need the numbers for the money to supply their salaries, and they need a steady stream of numbers to indoctrinate/manipulate/and control through guilt and shame into living the way they do and voting the way they do. Heaven forbid if a church attendee goes against their political or non-Biblical religious grain with the Word of God. Churches want their pie socials but no reading, studying, or prayer according to God's ways.

Attended an Evangelical Free Church recently, and boy, did they ever promote the rapture, using one small verse found in the New Testament. And I was told these folks were some of the most sound denominations......never heard the rapture being promoted all the years of growing up in a small church.....times have changed.

Christsfreeservnt said...

Anonymous, Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me on this subject. I was brought up in the Christian & Missionary Alliance Church (no, it is not a cult), which was once a very strong (solid) evangelical denomination similar to the Evangelical Free Church. In fact, the two denominations once talked of a merger many years ago. Many C&MA people have found a home in the EFC when there was not a C&MA Church nearby. We have also attended Southern Baptist, United Methodist and Presbyterian (PCA) churches over the years. There used to be a huge distinction between denominations, but I have discovered that in the past 20 years or so they have all started looking alike, and many are not what they used to be at all. We left institutionalized religion several years ago. I do miss church the way I knew it when I was young.

Bible Based Christian said...

"IFB Churches:Are They Daughters of Rome as Well?" This article needs support from the KingJamesBible.If you want to say something is wrong with a group, okay, but, where are the supporting scriptures.Feelings alone,experience alone,and no bible verses to support your feeling and experiences don't make a strong case. Also,"IFB Churches?"What is your definition of IFB Churches? Is a Baptist that goes to an independent church based upon God's fundamental teachings an IFB? If so, you are fighting against the Church of God that Jesus died for.And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:11 In this verse you notice the I am is God alone. Also in this verse you notice they is us are to be one.You can't be one over the internet.If you search the scriptures with Bible software and do a search of "we" you will find that God is the I am and the body of Christ is the "we."Without us who are you?The body of Christ is made of many members.The bible addresses this in detail...
1 Corinthians 12:12-27KJV12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14 For the body is not one member, but many15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
The Baptist church goes back to the original church that God established and was never a part of Rome. If you do research, you will find the truth. Brother Jason Cooley from Old Paths Baptist Church has some good information on the history of the Baptist chruch. Also, Brother John, "the Baptist" was a Baptist.
As for the fake Baptists, you mentioned like Jack Hyles and Steven Anderson, don't let them keep you from your blessings.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Co 11:13-15

Bible Based Christian said...

What kind of God do you serve? Is your God strong enough to preserve His words?
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Mat 24:35
Okay, God said His words shall not pass away, so where are they? Seek and thou shall find them.
Is your God strong enough to preserve His church?Mat 16:18, And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. God said the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church. Seek and thou shall find it.
(It may not be perfect) but neither are you. A group of sinners is going to sin.
We are in the time of the falling away and the bible says apostasy would be rampant and it is, however, God also made promises like Mat. 16:18.
We go to a Baptist church. My wife and four children.We sit together as a family while all the other children go off to a separate room.We avoid the Christmas music and teachings like the plague!We endure the pre-trib rapture preaching and even endure being called foolish for not believing it.We endure our brother and sisters weaknesses and sins and they endure ours.Pray for them. When we have need they pray for us. I love my church family and my church family loves me.I feel sorry for you sister and for others that have no church family. There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken. Ecc 4:8-12God knows we are stronger together. There is a church for you but you must pray and fast to find it. Also have faith in God and His promisses. He said He will not withhold any good thing from you. Fellowship and a church family is a very very good thing. Pray and hold God accountable to His promisses and see if he will bless you.So the Baptist church is not a daughter of Rome. However, some may fall into Romes hands. And of course Satan is not going to leave the Baptist church alone, he has got to do his job.
My family need my attention now, but I am sure you over generalized in this article. You must call out a single church as Paul did and not the whole church for mistake of some even if they are the majority. Try a small Baptist church that is independent or better yet start you own church with your husband as the leader, but dont let the devil win.God bless you!Julian in Holland

Bible Based Christian said...

"IFB Churches:Are They Daughters of Rome as Well?" This article needs support from the KingJamesBible.If you want to say something is wrong with a group, okay, but, where are the supporting scriptures.Feelings alone, experience alone, and no bible verses to support your feeling and experiences don't make a strong case. Also, "IFB Churches?" What is your definition of IFB Churches? Is a Baptist that goes to an independent church based upon God's fundamental teachings an IFB? If so, you are fighting against the Church of God that Jesus died for.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:11
In this verse you notice the I am is God alone. Also in this verse you notice they is us are to be one. You can't be one over the internet. If you search the scriptures with Bible software and do a search of "we" you will find that God is the I am and the body of Christ is the "we." Without us who are you? The body of Christ is made of many members. The bible addresses this in detail...
1 Corinthians 12:12-27King James Version (KJV)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Bible Based Christian said...

The Baptist church goes back to the original church that God established and was never a part of Rome. If you do research, you will find the truth. Brother Jason Cooley from Old Paths Baptist Church has some good information on the history of the Baptist chruch. Also, Brother John, "the Baptist" was a Baptist.
As for the fake Baptists, you mentioned like Jack Hyles and Steven Anderson, don't let them keep you from your blessings.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Co 11:13-15

What kind of God do you serve? Is your God strong enough to preserve His words?
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Mat 24:35
Okay, God said His words shall not pass away, so where are they? Seek and thou shall find them.
Is your God strong enough to preserve His church?
Mat 16:18, And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. God said the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church. Seek and thou shall find it.
(It may not be perfect) but neither are you. A group of sinners is going to sin.
We are in the time of the falling away and the bible says apostasy would be rampant and it is, however, God also made promises like Mat. 16:18.
We go to a Baptist church. My wife and four children. We sit together as a family while all the other children go off to a separate room. We avoid the Christmas music and teachings like the plague! We endure the pre-trib rapture preaching and even endure being called foolish for not believing it. We endure our brother and sisters weaknesses and sins and they endure ours. Pray for them. When we have need they pray for us. I love my church family and my church family loves me. I feel sorry for you sister and for others that have no church family.
There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.
Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken. Ecc 4:8-12
God knows we are stronger together. There is a church for you but you must pray and fast to find it. Also have faith in God and His promisses. He said He will not withhold any good thing from you. Fellowship and a church family is a very very good thing. Pray and hold God accountable to His promisses and see if he will bless you.
So the Baptist church is not a daughter of Rome. However, some may fall into Romes hands. And of course Satan is not going to leave the Baptist church alone, he has got to do his job.
My family need my attention now, but I am sure you over generalized in this article. You must call out a single church as Paul did and not the whole church for mistake of some even if they are the majority. Try a small Baptist church that is independent or better yet start you own church with your husband as the leader, but dont let the devil win.
God bless you!
Julian in Holland

Anonymous said...

John, the Baptist, did not belong to a denominational 'baptist' church, Julian, for there is NO Scriptural evidence to support your statement. And pray tell, where was our brother John for years and years before he began ministering to 'the brood of vipers?" I believe our Scriptures say "the wilderness" where He was in direct fellowship with our Father who are in heaven. I also believe the Holy Scriptures say that "John the Baptist came to prepare ye a way for the LORD Jesus." He did not point people to a denominational hierarchal church system, he led people to Christ Jesus.

When 'baptists' believe they have 'the market on' and 'know Jesus better' than any other denominational system, well then, Julian, perhaps it is your soul that is believing a lie from satan for he loves to draw denominational lines in the sand.

I came out of an abusive "Baptist" church system and have spiritual scars for the showing. Some of the most conceded, vain, narcissistic, destructive, wicked and evil hearts sit in those chairs every Sunday, desiring themselves to be worshiped and praised above and beyond Jesus, and who also sit amongst themselves devising plans to destroy our marriages, our relationships with our children, our reputations within the community, and even try to eliminate our names from the one and only Book of Life as referenced in The Word.

My hearts bleeds for you.

Anonymous said...

Baptist Doctrine teaches that once a person is truly born again his salvation is secure "no matter what" . This is a license to sin and causes the Christian to let down his spiritual guard since the Baptist doctrine teaches that God is holding us and keeping us. John 10:28 must be read with 10:27 where it states that the sheep follow - -continuous tense-- those are the ones who do not get plucked out of God's hand. Another deception is that sinning must be lifestyle or practice in order to lose salvation and often, the preacher will say" well, that person was never saved to begin with. Not all sins are of the same degree, BUT one act of murder, one act of adultery , one act of idolatry etc to cause one to die spiritually. (see sins in 1 Cor 6L9-10, Rev 21:8. Eph 5:5-7, Mk ch 7, Gal 5:19-21) This is NOT a works salvation: We are saved by grace, BUT we can be defiled by sin which causes us to die spiritually. One must repent for salvation sake , but can be saved again. See Rom 11:19-23, James 5:19-21, and Luke -- prodigal son. (BTW also denying Jesus, turning to or preaching another gospel, not producing fruit, etc..will lead to spiritual death. The Baptist preaches don't warn the sheep that they must endure to the end in heart purity, holiness and obedience to Christ in order to attain final salvation-- actually enter the Kingdom. All the emphasis is on getting born again, BUT we must stay saved by continuing to follow because it is possible to have believed in vain. A partial truth is presented as a whole truth. Those who believe they can have Jesus as savior without obeying him as Lord have been deceived by a savage wolf, using Christian terminology. These false pastors are described in Jude and 2 Peter ch 2.

Truth Seeker said...

Bad company corrupts good morals. (Proverbs)

1 Cor 5:9-11 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.It is referring to the man below who professed to be a Christian.

●1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.

1 Cor 5:4,5 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

As a corporate body, they were to "hand [the guilty man] over to Satan." The purpose of this is shown to be so that his sinful nature or flesh (sarx) [not body, soma] will be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. Hence, his spirit was NOT saved at that moment, in contrast to what the vast majority of pastors and evangelists in our day are teaching by way of eternal security, the perseverance of the saints or "once saved always saved" (OSAS). These are 3 different labels for the same heresy that originated with Satan in Eden. It seems that 99.99% of all OSAS teachers say this sexually immoral man of 1 Cor. 5, who was doing sin of a kind that does not occur even among pagans, was a Christian! In other words, they are teaching there are 2 types of sexually immorally people—one type saved because he once had a moment of faith and the other lost because he never had a moment of faith, but both acting equally vile and wicked! This is the bottom line conclusion of this lie from the devil, which they are teaching as grace and sometimes as the gospel. It is obviously a doctrine of demons.

Also, OSAS changes the holy image of a Christian into one that allows for wickedness. Therefore, some people are wrongly thinking: If the man of 1 Cor. 5 could do it and remain saved, so can I. If sexual immorality won't damn me, then drunkenness or suicide won't either. Hence, pandora's box is opened by OSAS.

John Calvin taught this sexually immoral man of 1 Cor. 5 was saved. Dave Hunt, who opposes Calvinism, also teaches the unnamed man of 1 Cor. 5 was saved! Hunt also believes in the reprehensible carnal Christian of once saved always saved. That is a form of antinomianism. Again, the Greek word is sarx NOT soma (body). Sarx is also found in the following passage:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)

Link below
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/1cor5.htm

Bible Based Christian said...

To Anonymous 1... John the Baptist was a part of the same body of Christ that I belong to. I'm not saying you must be a Baptist to be saved. I'm saying, the Baptist church was never a part of Rome. Please do some research about the bloodline of the Baptist church. The article says "IFB Churches: Are They Daughters of Rome as Well?" I know the Baptist Church history and the answer is no.
Brother Jason Cooley from Old Paths Baptist Church has some good information on the history of the Baptist chruch.
Not every Baptist is going to live Godly or even be truly saved. You say you were hurt by Baptists. Who were they? What did they do? If someone hurt you should expose them like the Bible says. People often say the same thing about Christians. Is it righteous judgement to make all Christians or Baptists responsible for others mistakes?
your brother in Christ,
Julian

Bible Based Christian said...

Anonymous 2. You said... Baptist Doctrine teaches that once a person is truly born again his salvation is secure "no matter what".

The KJV teaches eternal life being something we have as dear children of God as a gift from Jesus Christ. Have you ever lost your salvation? How many sins must one do to lose their salvation? Which sins are worthy of us losing our salvation for? If you lose your salvation, how do you get it back? Did you earn your salvation? Are you SO... SO stronG that you can keep yourself saved? Then you must be trusting in YOU for your salvation. I trust in Jesus for my salvation because He started the work of salvation and didn't leave it to a _________ like me to finish it.
Here is your OSAS straight from the KJV.
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Phi 1:6

Who will perform it? Amen!

If that's not enough for you here are a few more:


My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any manpluck them out of my hand. Joh 10:27-28


For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:20-23


Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 1Ti 6:12

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 1Jo 5:11-12

These all say we have eternal life. We are not working for it in the future. Amen.
But if you still want to trust in that flesh of yours try this one on for size.

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jer 17:5
Still not convinced? One more for you trusting in yourself to keep your salvation.
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight. Job 15:14-15

This is from the bible not from Baptist.
God bless you,
Julian

Bible Based Christian said...

Truth Seeker you can share my response to Anonymous 2 regarding eternal security.
1Co 15:33, Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Hollywood's Satanic Roots - The Movie - Reloaded // Jason Cooley
free on youtube and sermon audio.

Tell me what you think.

God bless you,
Julian the Christian
or Julian the Baptist, LOL,
or Julian the Least,
Julian the Slave of Jesus Christ, I like that one best!
I know who my master is. I'm not ashamed, it's Jesus the Christ the One who paid my sin debt at Calvary, was Crucifed, took the WRATH OF GOD for a hellbound sinner as myself, was Buried, secured with guards a huge stone and all, and 3 days latter He Rose from the DEAD, Amen. That's my Jesus! Made an open show of death! Proved to satan and his fallen devil buddies who's really in charge. No wonder the devils tremble at the name of Jesus. I'm trusting in that same Jesus to keep me saved! Who are you trusting in again? Who? again I said, WHO?

Anonymous said...

Amen Julian,
I have been blessed by brother Cooley as well and his Baptist history series. I would say this though, many of the IFB churches are not sound, they do not constitute a denomination as their beliefs are as varied as a kaleidoscope, and many are not authoritative as they were not started scripturally and do not handle the ordinances correctly. A good question to ask oneself is... " What is the foundation of the church I am attending?" Paul said no other foundation can any man lay than that which was laid, Jesus being the chief cornerstone. Who started the church you attend? Did they have authority to do so, meaning, were they sent out by a duly ordained church. What kind of baptism do they practice? Do they accept baptisms from other groups with which they theologically disagree? I had an IFB pastor at one time that was willing to accept both SBC and Charismatic baptisms in our family. This raises the question, Into what were we baptized? Can we truly have fellowship except around shared beliefs and unity of doctrine? I don't believe it is possible. I completely agree that God is able to preserve His church, and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. His church is the one that obeys His doctrine, as stated in His word, the KJV. IF you love me, keep my commandments! With that said, many IFB today are disobedient to this, and Bible Believer has rightly pointed out many of the problems, some of which I have also encountered. Brother Sam Morris of Old Paths Baptist TN does a great job of laying out the issue of authority and doctrine on his Sermon Audio page.
God Bless you...
Teri

William Sculley said...

All Protestant churches are children of Rome. If you hold to any of the five Solas, you are a child of Rome. If you are non-denominational, you are a child of Rome. If you claim you are not part of Protestantism, then you are still a Protestant, and are still a child of Rome.

Every person that isn't part of the Roman Church or the Orthodox church is a child of Rome, because without Rome, they would not exist.

Bible Believer said...

the bloodline of the Baptist church, I read that book with blood in the title about the origins of the Baptists. It is a book disparaged by many. It was 15 years ago when I read it so my memory is fuzzy now but I have to admit my first reaction is to say it does not matter to you. The majority of Baptist churches are hooked into the ecumenical church system. What number are IFBs even to other Baptist churches? 4 percent? One per county is the average in my area of the country.

Anyhow in the article I state Go where God leads you but I worry you are in a church where they mock you for not believing in the Pretrib rapture. I was you, sitting in the churches desiring fellowship while abiding by Christmas teachings that nauseated me, some political ones until they nauseated me beyond measure and other teachings. Maybe my experience will serve as a warning. It doesn't get better. I even thought I could try and tell people the truth or get them to look at it. I know I am not a perfect person and no church would be, but the rule of silence about these issues took its toll on me for many years while I was in IFBs, of course I had my 6 years out of all churches and the time visting a Calvary Chapel and the last IFB making another attempt.

Every IFB in my opinion that supports the Middle Eastern wars etc, is in the Pope's hands as much as the ecumenicals. They follow the Knights of Malta game plan and praise it from the pulpits.

The reason I went back in, to be frank, is I missed having a church family. I loved the first. So this was extremely painful for me.

I believe there are saved people in some churches, I never would say that anyone going to church is not saved but I want people to ask questions, think about this, why can't you question the pre-Trib Rapture and other things without being called foolish?

Why are the teachings always the SAME?

Bible Believer said...

With Christmas want to make correction above, I abided by those who believed in it including pastors. I refused all Christmas based services. My first IFB pastor even celebrated Halloween with his children.

Bible Believer said...

William I am not a child of Rome. Rome considers me a "heretic", be more definite with the terminology. I don't believe the Roman Catholic church or Orthodox define who a Christian is, God does. Just because some monks may have recopied the Latin Vulgate, doesn't mean the Catholic church holds the copyright to Gods Word. Constantine brought Babylon in full force and many of those early church fathers were grievous wolves.

Anonymous said...

Actually, I am not currently in a fellowship, but following Brother Jason Cooley and Brother Sam Morris. They do not celebrate holidays, in fact they avidly preach against them. They do not use programs or denominational material, they use the KJV. They have correctly concluded that real churches hold fast to the doctrine as given in the Bible, and that the title of the church may not necessarily be Baptist, but will hold to doctrine as given in the Bible. The initial doctrine was Baptist, and just like the term "Christian" the term "Baptist" has been muddled so that no one is really sure what one is talking about when used. For anyone attending a church, I reiterate, why do you do what you do? It is not enough that you like the fellowship or the pastor or any thing about the church. The question is, is it obedient and faithful to the teachings of Jesus? Is it 501c3? Then it is not a church. Does it have Biblical order, meaning a pastor and elders /deacons? Does it practice Nicolaitanism? Does it practice holidays? Do they have an open or closed Lord's table? Do they baptize only those who show fruit meet for repentance? How do they handle their money? How is evangelism handled? Does the church street preach? All of these issues are dealt with in the Bible, and a faithful church will be obedient to what the Bible says. Social clubs will do what is pragmatic and convenient. Real churches do exist, and people are waking up to this issue and trying to set themselves in order. I encourage anyone to study it out!
Teri

Anonymous said...

Teri,

With due respect here, I find no evidence where Jesus declares He is a Baptist. In fact, when He went to teach in the synagogues (churches of His day), it is told via God's Word that He was hated.

In every denomination that I have attended, and they have been many, each one indoctrinates the congregation into believing that our LORD is a happy member of their particular church/denominational system. And these leaders/pew sitters exhibit no shame in defending their position, even twisting Scriptures to do so.

Catholics believe their jesus is a catholic, Lutherans believe their jesus is a Lutheran, Baptists believe their jesus is a Baptist, assembly of god attendees believe jesus was an AOG member and these folks honestly believe they know jesus better than any other denomination, evangelical free churches believe jesus could only be an e-free member, Jehovah witnesses 'witness' to me and my family on a regular basis with their 'visits, watchtower magazines, and their false version of a bible" to which we have the opportunity to share the Biblical Gospel (gotta hand it to these folks though, for they witness their religion far more than supposed Christians do, to the shame of 'the 501c. 3 church'), the seventh day Adventists believe jesus was a 7th day Adventist and who only worshiped his father on Friday evenings, the Presbyterians, Methodists, calvary chapels.........all denominations believe in a jesus that holds ONLY to the doctrines of their particular branch of religion.

If Jesus, the Christ, is truly the Cornerstone of our ecclesiastical church system, why then, is His Name, our One and only True Shepherd, not 'proudly' displayed on that church sign strategically placed outside of the church building instead of a man or woman's name? Is it because man desires the glory, honor, praise, and fame in place of Christ?

Something to ponder.....and no, Jesus was not a Baptist!

William Sculley said...

The only question to confirm if someone is a Protestant, and therefore a daughter of Rome:

Do they believe any of the following false doctrines invented by the Protestants:

1. Sola Scriptura
2. Sola Fide
3. Sola Grazie
4. Sola Christos
5. Soli Deo el Gloria

If you believe any of those, you are a Protestant, pure and simple. Those are Protestant doctrines. They did not pre-exist the Protestant Reformation.

Anyone who says they are not Protestant and accepts those doctrines which were invented by the Protestants is in denial of reality.

William Sculley said...

Bible Believer, the reason I say you are a Protestant is because you accept the Protestant pillars of the Five Solas, as defined in my previous post. A Protestant is defined as any person whose beliefs hail from the Reformation. Like it or not, your teachings are derived from the Radical Reformation and the Revivalist period of the Reformation. Literally everything you teach is to be found in Protestant churches of one stripe or another. While there may not be a single congregation that teaches everything you teach, you are by far not unique, and the movement of unchurched people would never have happened without the Protestant movement. And since you accept the five central dogmas that literally every Protestant church claims to confess, I, and literally every person who would give an honest treatment of your blog would put you squarely in the set of shoes that fit your feet as though they were specifically designed for you. Whether you like it or not, your claiming not to be a Protestant is like my claiming not to be a human being. Whether or not I like the description of human being, I am still a human being.

However, unlike the description of human being, you can change that definition by coming to the Church which hasn't changed since the Apostles established it in complete fulfillment of Christ's prophecy.

In point of fact, instead of making up the teachings of the Orthodox Church, as you have in your blog, I dare you to come and investigate for yourself by being an inquirer. Let our dogma speak for itself, instead of making it up according to third-hand doctrines from someone who was never properly educated about our Faith. You want to know what we believe? We say it in our services. Want to know what we believe about Baptism? About Communion? Attend a Baptism. Attend the Divine Liturgy. What we believe about them is in those services. Want to know why the Church is built in the way it is, shaped like a cross? Ask.

I tire of hearing about a family member you supposedly heard about the Orthodox Church from. Benny Henn used to be Orthodox, too. His knowledge of the Orthodox Church isn't valid. It never will be. No matter how much you love your family member, he is not a representative of the Church. Read the book "Introducing the Orthodox Church" by Father Anthony Coniaris. That is an authoritative source of information about us. Read The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church, by St. Philaret.

Don't assume that you know what we believe. I guarantee one thing and one thing only: There is nothing in what we teach that contradicts Scripture itself. It may contradict personal interpretations of Scripture, but it never contradicts Scripture.

Lone Phlanger said...

The Catholic church teaches post-trib and replacement theology in its Catechism. Your assertion that pre-trib and Christian Zionism helps Rome is complete NONSENSE!

Anonymous said...

William. Sola scriptura etc wasn't heard of before the reformation? Ever read a book called the bible? What about people like Wycliffe who predates the "reformation" by 200 years? What about the Huguenots whom I'm a descendent of? It seems you're in denial of reality. I can name another, what about Dante (inferno)? He believed as do some "Protestants", he even called the papal church antichrist. Please do research instead of spewing papal propaganda that can be thoroughly refuted with ten minutes of Internet research. It might have worked 30 years ago when information wasn't at everyone's fingertips. Not now......James

Anonymous said...

Of coarse the pre trib rapture helps Rome. It takes people's eyes away from the papacy being antichrist, and places it on a future "world leader". It was the Jesuit priest named Francisco Ribera who invented futurism and dispensationism. Read about the ties between a Jesuit whom names escapes me at this point, and Edward Irving, the man who introduced fururism to John Nelson Darby. The Plymouth brethren, just as the Oxford movement (John Henry Newman) were both tools of the papacy. We get these bogus Nephelim teaching from Pember who was part of the Plymouth brethren. Please check up on what I'm saying......James

Anonymous said...

A church that hasn't changed? What about Transubstantiation being an invention of the fourth Lateran council in 1215. Or the papal "mass" being invented during the council of Trent? It should also be noted that the anti heist papacy proclaimed the apocrypha "inspired" during this same council. Before Trent the papacy didn't consider it inspire either, but know we here from papal apologist about how "Protestants" removed the apocrypha from the bible, when it was the papacy who added it. I have MANY more examples, like the priests denying the cup from the laity started in the 15th century, but Oh no!!! The papal church never changes.......James

William Sculley said...

RE: 3:56 Anonymous

Antichrist will be something we DON'T see coming. It isn't going to be something that everyone hates, but something that nobody, you included, suspects. It is the official stance of the Lutheran denomination that the Pope is the Antichrist. It's also the standard stance of IFB churches, too.

Who the antichrist is going to be we do not know. What I do know is that Christ was very frank about what happens to people who slander others. Unless Scripture says "And there will be a Pope in Rome that will be the Antichrist", your guess as to who the antichrist will be is as good as mine. What I do know is that if I was Satan, I'd WANT people thinking the Pope was Antichrist so that when I introduced the Antichrist for real, I could pull the wool over their eyes by making the Antichrist turn the Pope into a scapegoat. If I, a simple man with no real experience conning people, could figure that out, then I would say that Satan is probably much more clever than that.

In reality, it is likely that Satan has someone who will oppose the Pope and will unite people under him against the Pope and destroy Rome to pull the anti-Catholics together.

William Sculley said...

RE: 4:01 Anonymous

I said a Church that hasn't changed. I am not Roman Catholic. I'm eastern Orthodox. And despite the blog owner's insistence that we believe the same, we really do not.

As to the "apocrypha", Christ and the Apostles quoted from it and prophecies in it were fulfilled regarding Christ. That's all I need to consider it Scripture.

The books weren't removed until the 6th century when the Masoretes decided that they wanted to respond to the Church's canon by scrubbing it clean of as many references to Christ as possible.

Anonymous said...

My Husband and I are getting really disgusted with our IFB church. They do preach biblical salvation, but there is so much wrong there. Everyone HAS to call him "Pastor" at all times, the congregation just flocks around him and does everything for his family. It almost seems like they think he's Baptist royalty or something. There is no power behind the pulpit, him and his wife never call or visit anyone that's been out or sick, money is spent so foolishly just so the church looks good, (ex. $25,000 paved parking lot, and a new 15 passenger van so the church "looks successful", tithing on the gross is pumped, faith promise missions giving, new gimmicks every week to get as many kids in as they can, and if you don't serve the church they act like your just not as good of a Christian than those that do, and the list goes on. I had some problems and stopped coming for a couple months, I started back going to a Ladies meeting and they all acted like I invisible and completely snubbed me. It really hurt me and I have come to the conclusion the "Pastor" is a Hireling and the whole place is ate up with pride. We really just want to leave the institutional church thing, but we are scared about it. It's that whole forsaking the fellowship verse they pump and dump constantly that has us in fear. I would love to hear others experience with leaving IFB. Thank-You!

William Sculley said...

RE: anonymous from February 23

I was raised IFB my entire childhood. One thing they have right is that we should gather together. Having humans gather requires organization and leadership, which is why Paul gave Timothy and Titus instructions for choosing people to appoint as Bishops and Elders and Deacons. The mere fact that some institutions, like the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant denominations (including those who say they aren't Protestant while defending the five Pillars of the Protestant faith), become corrupt does not mean that "institutional" churches are all ate up with pride. It takes more humility to submit oneself to leadership on earth, following the example of Timothy who submitted to Paul, or of Elisha who submitted to Elijah, than it does to privately interpret Scripture. Through private interpretation of Scripture, one can support any heresy he wants. I'll give an example:

Jesus says that the Father is "greater than" the Son. Now, I could ignore that the Greek word translated as "greater than" means "above in administration", and read that it means "above in all ways". But by doing so, I end up preaching that the Son is not equal to the Father.

In Scripture, any time we see people interpreting Scripture, we see them doing it together, as a Church. We never see people privately interpreting Scripture. The one person we see reading Scripture alone is asked "do you understand what you are reading?" and answers "how can I, except someone guide me?"

The Spirit did not guide the Eunuch alone, but by sending him a leader from the Church.

We must realize that individual gatherings will always have problems. Churches have people. Any place that has people will have sinners. Any place that has sinners will have sin and strife. The only perfect church gathering is an empty building with Christ alone standing there.If you join Christ in that building, or if I, or anyone else, that gathering is automatically imperfect.

This is why, this past Sunday, we had Forgiveness Sunday. While we should forgive each other every day, this day is set aside for us to go out of our way to forgive people, for sins known and unknown that they may have committed against us. We forgive because if we do not forgive our brother his sins, neither will God forgive us for our sins.

Every parish and church will have humans causing problems. That is what makes being a Church hard. That is what makes being family hard. It is easy to cut oneself off and not worry about the hard work of getting along with others. But it is cutting oneself off. The Church is a family, and if we can't put up with the faults of our brothers, then how could we expect the all holy God to put up with our sins?