Monday, January 25, 2016

"Dare to Build Wealth!" is not a Christian message



David Ramsey's seminars are in every church in my area. One local megachurch is holding a new one and it costs 99 bucks to sign up.  I looked up another church at random, this one was a baptist church that wanted 115.00 dollars for the class. Talk about raking it in. If you ever wonder why the treatment of the poor in the churches reaches new depths, multitudes of church members listening to this guy for years on end, has definitely been one negative influence. Even here, David Ramsey goes with the family as idol paradigm.

How many real Christians lost their families when they were born again? I most likely lost my worldly inheritance obeying God and departing from the wicked. [yes it's a long story] His appeals such as "I dare you to build wealth" are anti-biblical, wicked and greedy. Notice how this life is looked on as the peak of everything. This guy has no touch with reality and what families in America are facing. He has no inkling how being poor in America makes you an outcast and how now even feeding a family and paying the rent has gotten harder and harder for millions. His audience who can afford his fee are not poor people but often middle class and above evangelicals who learn even more right wing "hate the poor" and blame them rhetoric from this guy.

The prosperity gospel has oozed through out the entire church system. It's not just for the Word of Faithers anymore.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hello BB,
From Roy:

Dave Ramsey is on the Atlanta airwaves from 2-4pm at 640 AM WGST. He boasts in giving also instead of teaching meekness and humility. He practices Christmas also. The callers into his show, for the most part, are asked to reveal their yearly income. It is all about money. He implies that having money is a sign of GOD's blessing. But he never mentions the fullness of GOD's Holy Spirit, scriptural meekness and scriptural humility. He's on the radio, so he's not going to mention the Roman Catholicism or he will probably lose half or more of his wealth that he brings in through his seminars.

Anonymous said...

Trusting in the world instead of GOD. Hey, Ramsey and Warren and all you worlders, here is your real purpose; John 17:3 - Don

Bible Believer said...

Hi Roy, I'm not surprised he boasts of his giving with his reward here. Wow about exposing yearly incomes on air, probably a bragging fest. Yes that message is all over that having money is a sign of God's blessing and the other alternative not having God's blessing. Meekness and humility is unknown to those types. I don't think they have David Ramsey seminars at Catholic churches, but maybe I am wrong? Sure he would lose money to preach any truth. Even a church giving hundreds of dollars to this guy to "get more money" is counter productive and antiscriptural. I have read David Ramsey's plan, one needs lot of expendable income or to live rent-free or mortgage free to even be able to work any of it. It is not feasible for most poor people.

It's kind of funny Don since a lot of their other phony cronies crow on about world economic collapse [yes it is happening but we know it is used by the likes of Bakker and the rest] what good is a "legacy" built up in the world's banks? They love the "silver and gold".

Anonymous said...

SallySays

Well these people see wealth building as being always in a position to help others which is what the bible said. You should work so that you have enough to give to others. Joyce Meyer also said the same thing too.

Has Dave Ramsey ever given away any of his seminars for free in churches. He could do that. Afterall since he recently brought his own house in cash for over a million, then why not do that?

I have not really looked into his teachings that much but I calculated that you would probably need over $40K in income a year to put all that into practice but he insists that if you make below, you can do things to make it up.

I am not sure if surplus income is easy to make in America now. You know income in addition to your wages - car boot sales, selling items on line etc.... those stay at home women in the patriarchy movement don't seem to have a problem.

Christsfreeservnt said...

The poor will be hit hard on their tax returns this year when they who could not afford medical insurance will be hit with a huge fine. I think the fine will be even bigger this year. I know of one poor family who has to pay 1/3 of their income for medical insurance. That is outrageous! It does not leave them enough to live on. But, that is the cost of coming under the New World Order. More and more the government is exercising control over the people.

Anonymous said...

To Sally Says at 8:01 AM,

In my former Baptist church denomination, one of the wolves in sheep's clothing promoted there by the leadership/influential women was a man by the name of Mike Murdock. After watching his ramblings on Trinity Broadcasting Network for a short while, begging for money on a constant basis during his 'ministry ??????" program, I decided to give him a call.

I called the number listed on the television screen and asked their 'ministry representative' if they would be so kind in sending me money to help pay my bills. I was struggling at that particular time in my life and needed the 'body of Christ' to come along side of me in bearing my burdens as well. The 'ministry representative' said that they don't give out money there, they just 'collect it,' then hung up on me.

So much for Mike Murdock 'ministries ??????" loving the sheep. And that local Baptist church down the street that I once belonged too, well, they have their money issue covered beautifully by appeasing everyone, for in every Sunday bulletin, they have in their service line-up, "Giving of Tithes and Offerings."

So if you belong to the Hebrews Roots Movement, then you will feel good about yourself in obeying the OT law and donate 'tithes,' and for those who live under the New Covenant, you ignore the word 'tithe' and give freely according to the 'offering' portion of the catch phrase. And where does all of that money go......to feed the church corporation/business model (and the leadership complains, complains, and turns away those who approach 'the board' asking for money to help pay their bills when they need it the most.

For shame, for shame. And did I mention they are saving up to build a new church building all the while the narcissistic pastor proclaims from his stage, "please mark your checks 'building fund' for those who want to donate to our new building."
Would Jesus be proud?

Anonymous said...

I heard Ramsey on the radio 15 years ago and I knew then after a few minutes of listening that he could not line up the verses that he used to fit his spouting. Ramsey is a fool to think that God is behind his teachings. We are to depend on God for everything we need. That includes what we call retirement.

Joel

Anonymous said...

I am taking his online course right now. And I think he has a lot of practical information that is helpful. However, I find a lot of what he says very insulting. He says the word "stupid" many many times when referring to his past financial debt. He implies that we are stupid if we have money troubles, and he talks about learning to delay pleasure. He says people spend so much on clothes, restaurants, etc... And I would like to know if he has any advice for people who genuinely do not have any of this so called "pleasure," who have no such clothing budget, who never buy Starbucks but would rather make one at home, and who cut their own kids hair just to save $15.
I do not appreciate being called stupid, and I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater because there is a lot of good in his course. But the truth is that money and finances is not one-size-fits-all, and there are people who honestly cannot find areas in which they are overspending and can cut back, unless they perhaps cut down on electricity by $10 bucks a month. So there is my $10, Dave. Whatcha gonna do with that? I keep all lights off when not in use, by the way. And I live in cold Wisconsin, but sure, I will just do a few extra jumping jacks to keep warm just to shave an extra $10 off my gas bill.

KJVmom said...

My grown children attended a Dave Rlamsey DVD conference several years ago;at the time. I didn't thoroughly investigate his beliefs at.though some things said bothered me. After this post came out, I found the book my daughter had received from the conference on her bookshelf. I don't know if she ever reads it,, but I left a note in it just in case. At any rate, I think Ramsey has influenced some of their thinking in regards to finances. Why do we listen to these gurus in the first place instead of getting into God's Word? I getting disgusted with theses celebrities and such, we need to distance ourselves. And I would imagine many see me as a nobody as well, but that's okay. My job is to follow Jesus and His Word. Let's remember to pray for one another and lift up each other.

Bible Believer said...

Yes the poor will be hit hard.

There are exemptions to Obamacare, but most ordinary poor people won't know how to use them or find this information. If you are poor, and need an exemption, google Obamacare exemptions. Some will surprise you.

Bible Believer said...

Bills are getting crazy in general. Should people be paying half their pay just to pay rent? How about another "rent" for a health insurance clean-out?

Jobs are paying so low, that one job I made 11 an hour at in the 1990s now pays 8 and oh when I did it you had to have a college degree for it.

Of course in Ramsey's world everyone makes around 100,000 a year. So much expendable income and all that lecturing about clothes shopping, lattes and more.

Murdoch is scary, I've seen him on TV, he looks like a movie magician. LOL that is funny how you called and asked for help. Love that. Yeah sure they hung up real fast. We tired of the demanded tithes in the last church. I noticed no one there was helped because there was no poor people there. They all had left. They were so stingy you couldn't even get a cup of coffee and the only time they shared a meal was for someone's wedding "reception".

Sure some don't use tithe, Calvary Chapel didn't but yes there are still offerings.

Sure some of them building new buildings got people right in the congregation or ones who left who could barely pay the rent and maybe some became homeless even.
continuing...

Bible Believer said...


I never see any homeless people get a room in any of the mega churches around here. One has something like 20 classrooms in it. The local homeless shelter which is located in the poorest part of town, is full.

Retirement doesn't even exist for Gen X or below, people in 40s and 50s don't have that. We will have to depend on God. None of my husband's jobs provided for any.

One thing that gets me is they act like wealth will last forever and don't even entertain the notion it can be lost. It's kind of ironic to me that some run to Ramsey to build their legacies and then read websites that talk about the crash of the banking system. I mean which is it?

I have read Ramseys book and he made me feel nothing but shame. I was stupid for having debts in the first place by what those books said. It was so stupid. A lot of my debts were medical. I'd love to know people who spend so much on clothes and restaurants. Sometimes one can eat a meal out if its a cheap one like for 5 bucks and get the food for a cheaper price then you do at a grocery store. I went to one that wanted 4 dollars just for half a pound of turkey lunch meat. I wanted to make me and husband a good sandwich for once and even that felt like breaking the bank. Explaining this reality to some guy who probably can buy and freeze three turkeys at 20 dollars a pop each and have endless "lunch meat" would be impossible.

I've heard the no pleasure lectures myself. Supposedly if you are poor you are to wear nothing but rags and do nothing in your spare time and eat nothing but beans and ramen noodles or something. The Heritage foundation thinks we should be able to live without refrigerator but then that would cost more money necessitating bus fare to the store everyday to buy each day's food or even meal as it comes.

I have not had my hair cut by a hairdresser since 2004. It doesn't grow much which helps but imagine that, no perms or special hair styles for me.

Yes that can be a class marker as well, in America.

I have bought no clothes, except 2 big shirts me and husband shared for 10 dollars from a thrift store around 3 years ago. I had some friends get me a few dresses along the way.

Starbucks, I'm too cheap to ever get a Latte, that's the price of a whole meal I can get at some places. One friend buys me a cup of coffee at one local outfit every couple months, the dollar one, I can't even imagine buying those 3 and 4 dollar sugared things.

We have no places to cut back. I even considered having I and husband go back into the boarding house and rented room world to save money, but it is too difficult as a married couple, and I have too much medical equipment that won't fit in one little room and need a certain lifestyle for my health--ie no stairs, no noise, etc. So I will keep paying the rent that cleans out the bank account instead. I wonder if Ramsey would tell me to eat nothing but beans everyday and or to rent a room with people 30 years younger?

What will 10 dollars change? It would just disappear into the vaccumn of bills. Ever notice we never see Ramsey address all the people trying to clean us all out so rapidly?

Bible Believer said...

KJV I agree, why hasn't he ever helped anyone out or spread the wealth? good question. I agree 40,000 a year would be the bare minimum in some areas to go with his plans, probably 60,000 in more expensive areas.

Surplus income is very hard to make. How can I can say this succinctly? Nothing is selling. Even ebay is a dead duck in the water. I know people who have done Etsy and that's mere pennies and you need money for craft supplies and some skills. Most of those stay at home women in patriarchy definitely have to have men with good jobs. That is not a realistic life for the poor especially urban poor or people who do not own their own homes.

Bible Believer said...

The refusal of Ramsey to spread the wealth and the toxic messages and antibiblical ones he gives out about the poor remain deeply concerning to me. This is the kind of stuff helping to get the latest CFR/Golden Sachs man elected, when they swing the pendulum to the right.

Anonymous said...

All these churches claim to be so biblical;but they pick and choose what they want to be biblical about.
What about sharing one anothers burdens. What about when the new christians even sold their homes and brought all their things together so that no one would go without...
This part they play down or ignore.Or they step over there neighbor on the road and go all they way across the world to help that neighbor..'

Bible Believer said...

yes they do pick and choose. Most churches holding Ramsey seminars have no sharing between members. The places are social halls, where they hold a weekly theatre meeting and members are told to pay for various seminars. Yes they send people overseas ignoring the poor right around them. The religious vacations are getting out of control. Ramsey shames the poor, they buy it and then go vote for the latest poor hating Republican politician.

Anonymous said...

SallySays

Over here I have heard people make surplus income within cities but I do not know how much they received. There was one guy at my church who studied E-bay 50 hours a week to understand how it works. He is now doing quite well with it.

I myself am not in a position to do any of these things as I receive support from the government and when you make surplus income on a regular basis, they actually reduce their financial support to you. I am now looking for a job, so I can make surplus income and keep it.

Yes too many people are doing E-bay and you really need something quirky and unique to sell or acquire an item from a recently deceased celebrity. People would be willing to buy say David Bowies hankerchief that he dropped on the floor at his very last restaurant visit. That is how morbid the world is.

Regarding the patriarchy women, I do not think all the glitters is gold. I have to say I would not mind their lifestyle but it also puts them at risk if the husband messes up.

Overall, Dave Ramsey has some good points about debts. I think a couple over here working at Lidl supermarket which pays £.9.70 per hour could probably implement this plan. But the real people who need it more is the poor who are being grinded to the ground by debts for real. I really wonder if Dave has not figured that out and perhaps give free talks like my church does although they ask for money and you pay tithe.

Just one note, I believe that the calling of people stupid is basically a form of reverse psychology. You insult the person to cause them to take positive action. He actually however claims that he is for the poor. In one of his videos on you tube when someone attacked him for not wearing a tie, he said that the reason for doing so is not to create any barriers between himself and say a struggling single mum (single mums tend to be quite poor - trust me I know). It is to reduce being intimidating. I know that it is a small point but just thought that sound interesting.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 4.53am

Definitely understand your point about corporate churches. My church is like one. I do not know how much departments mines has (in that specific 'branch'). They do not automatically offer support to those in need but I was offered some dinner by a Pastors wife when I was in dire straits. Their premise like many churches out there is that if you are poor, then claim welfare. They do however have financial support programs in developing countries (where they also have branches as they are global).

My church is kind of unique. People have said that they are word faith and that the pastors are money grabbers. To be honest, I have seen them advertise a pastors job one time and the salary was around £14000 ($19000) or a little bit more. I have seen their wives shopping at ordinary stores like myself such as the £1 stores. They seem to share flats or apartments too. Although they ask for people to test their faith by making a sacrificial offerings and encourage tithing, they do not seem to be your typical prosperity gospel church. I must admit I do feel a little discomfort over the sacrificial offerings but I have tithed although I believe it is old testament and now I am starting to see doors opened. I really do not know what to think.

Dave Ramsey also talks about tithing and seems to believe in it.