Thursday, September 10, 2015

Kim Davis and the End of Legal Marriage?

A long time ago, I had the theory and it is just a theory that legal marriage in America will be ended,
and we will be stuck with informal "domestic partnerships."

I wrote "There's going to be fall-out from this in my opinion. Some states may exit the "marriage" business all together. Marriage itself is going to be devalued, where in the future, all will register as "civil partners" or something for insurance reasons."

In 2013, I wrote this article: Homosexual "Marriage" is About the Destruction of Marriage

" Now this may be an unusual theory, just thinking off the top of my head---I believe homosexual marriage is going to be a backdoor way to destroy marriage in general. This is just a theory even beyond the obvious already known sin destruction. "

The Kim Davis jail-a-thon just seemed like more religious theatre. She is another pawn in the political games with Huckabee included. Michael Peroutka is a Dominionist too. She was thrown in jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to homosexuals in her court clerk position. She was let out later on. Why doesn't she just quit her job? Wouldn't a Christian be spiritually uneasy working in an office that is now issuing marriage licenses for homosexuals in general even if she was personally spared having to issue one herself in the future?

Something seemed very wrong with all this. One challenge some Christians may face are jobs that influence them to "sell-out".

Back to the end of legal marriage, Mississippi wanted to stop issue marriage licenses almost right away. Now there is a big push happening where law makers are putting forth laws to end state marriage licenses all together. The Alabama Senate voted against the ending of marriage licenses too where marriage would only be an informal contract filed with probate. Oklahoma changed their issuing of marriage licenses as well. One can see here marriage as a legal entity is being chipped away at.

Now some libertarians and others always have preached that the state needs to be out of marriage.  Back in the Wild West, and in history, many people married when it was never filed at a court house and those marriages were valid but this seems to some part of a greater agenda. To chip away at the legal status of marriage in society. We see already how many don't marry now. All you have to do is watch talk shows on TV like Maury and others, to know there's a large group of people not even bothering with marriage before they have babies. This just seems like a steady progression  of changing marriage inherently. Take the state out, where there are no longer moral protests and now anyone can "informally" "marry". This will open the door to the polygamous too.  Marriage itself becomes less of an important legal reality. It no longer serves as a building block of society and is no longer as important for family infrastructure. God will always define marriage no state, but this will serve the interests of many of the wicked.

Some may ask how does Kim Davis fit into this? Well people watched all this religious show time and it just helped the outrage grew. Of course the right wing took Kim Davis's side not realizing the Trojan horse being brought in the door of chipping away at the legal status of marriage in American society. The left of course took it's position. There is a reason they chose a woman who has been divorced three times to be the poster child of the sanctity of marriage. Someone can be divorced several times and still be born again but that is something others have pointed out to discredit her.  However she is also a "Oneness Pentecostal". I haven't covered Oneness Pentecostalism much on here if at all, but that is a Pentecostal group that denies the full divinity of Jesus Christ sort of like the Jehovah Witnesses. Anyone who denies Jesus as God is not a Christian.

The rally they hold upon her release from jail, deeply bothers me. Eye of the Tiger now shown in the videos above was played before she spoke.  The band, Survivor who had this as a hit in the 1980s is outraged. She comes out to hold her arms up as if she has won some prize fight, arms up in the air. Where is Christian humility in that whole spectacle? It's almost like rubbing it in the faces of the homosexuals and liberals she is battling. With their Christian flags waving, it's religious showtime.


Anonymous said...

My wife and I have discussed this. I mentioned to her that Kim Davis should have resigned if she could not perform her job duties. What she is doing is just an excuse to keep her paycheck, so basically she is worshiping money. (Matthew 6:24) - Don

Kayfabe said...

Hi Bible Believer,

Good question on whether to quit or do what Kim Davis did. I guess one would have to rely on Jehovah's spirit for guidance there. As far as Mrs. Davis oneness theology, don't know too much about it but I do think they deny the Father-Son relationship which is the spirit of anti-messiah. They do acknowledge the full divinity of Jehoshua but have him being the same being as His Father. I myself am not a Trinitarian but rather a Binitarian so I believe that Jehovah and Jehoshua are both divine beings of the Godhead. The word Elohim in the old testament has a plural meaning which means "mighty ones". Genesis 1:26 confirms the plurality of the Godhead" Majesty which is the Father and the Son. I believe the Holy Spirit comes from them originating from Jehovah and goes through His Son Jehoshua to be given to us. I do believe Trinitarian's are saved as they don't deny the Father-Son relationship but I still believe it is a false teaching in that they say the Holy Spirit is a distinct separate being and that all three are of the same homeostasis (substance). Jehoshua was clear that His Father Jehovah was greater than Him and scripture is also clear that The Father has headship over the Son. Jehoshua even calls His Father His God (Mighty One). Scripture even says he will hand over the Kingdom back to His Father Jehovah. Unfortunately the Trinity doesn't adhere to this as they say that the Son and The Father are the same being. I believe that Jehovah and Jehoshua are distinct seperate distinct beings with separate administrations. If you get a chance research the Trinity and you will see it's pagan roots. Plantonic philosophy, paganism originating in ancient mystery Babylon and the Alexandrian seminary (which was marked with paganism and greek philosophy) by way of Athanasius brought about this teaching of the Godhead in which Constantine signed off on at the council of Nicaea (325 AD). It was a sloppily put together doctrine. The word Trinity wasn't coined until 187 AD by Tertullian. The Trinity was based off of Sun worship at it's root (even to so called Church fathers make an analogy of the Trinity to the Sun. The doctrine didn't become creed until the Catholic Church made it official in 364 or 381 AD I believe. So it is a Catholic Church doctrine that has it's roots in the pagan cultures of Babylon, Egypt, Greece and Rome. The homeostasis teaching has its roots in platonic philosophy.

Ruth Latimer said...

Also BB, Huckabee and Cruz needed a cause for their failure with Josh Duggar and who better than Kim Davis band wagon who, I read somewhere, is a Democrat.

Bible Believer said...

Yes a new PR stunt to fix things I suppose.

Bible Believer said...

Kayfabe, I've never heard of a Binitarian. This one is new to me. How do you fit the Holy Spirit in? I guess I am confused. My take on things is to ignore Rome on things where they just muddy the waters. But what about bible verses like these?

1 John 5:7King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Bible Believer said...

What is your take on this?


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The neutrality of this article is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (December 2011)

Subordinationism is a doctrine in Christian theology which holds that the Son and the Holy Spirit are subordinate to God the Father in nature and being. Subordinationism, in its various forms, was an Early Christian doctrine until the mid 4th century, when the Arian controversy was finally settled, after many decades of debates, with the formulation of the doctrine of Trinity.

Subordinationism has some commonalities with Arianism, but has some differences. While Arius and his followers were certainly also subordinationist, the Arians went even further to assert that the Son, as a creature, is virtually ignorant of the Creator, the only One who was accepted to have the full divine nature according to the Christian apophaticism.[clarification needed] Subordinationism thrived at the same time as Arianism (fourth century AD), but long survived it. Its chief proponents in the fourth century were Eusebius of Caesarea and Eusebius of Nicomedia, both of whom had once given support to Arius. Athanasius battled Subordinationism throughout his career as bishop of Alexandria, often labelling it as Arianism. This was a rhetorical tactic which both highlighted what he believed was its logical outworking, and caricatured it.[citation needed]

In many Christian theological circles (mostly orthodox), subordinationism is treated as heresy, while "relational subordination" is not. In other circles, subordinationism is seen as biblical middle ground between extremes of Modalism and Unitarianism. (Christology has been the source of many (but not all) hot disputes and subsequent divisions of Christianity since the 1st century AD)

I can't go with these beliefs, remember you are talking to an ex-Unitarian here.

Bible Believer said...

Be careful out there. A trap is set because Rome goes on about how "THEY" established the Trinity, there are many who will subtley deny Jesus being God.

Kayfabe said...

Regarding 1 John 5:7, that is actually not authorized scripture. Greens Hebrew and Greek Interlinear Bible explains this. It was a scripture added by the Catholic Church. I believe the Holy Spirit is the power of Jehovah and Jehoshua, their breath, mind and wind as that is the Hebrew and Greek definition of spirit.if you go to my blog and read the article about the Godhead it will explain it more.

Anonymous said...

Beware of cults.

Beware of any and all sacred name movements.

Beware of the latest fad in new doctrines in the age of the greatest deception ever seen on the earth.

Study Scripture, please get a concordance, the KJV is the best translation based on the Antioch texts, as opposed to the Alexandrian texts, but its translators were still heavily influenced upon the teachings of millennia of roman doctrines. Seek truth, pray for guidance, resist the wolves who now prey upon the flock.

We think we know the name of God and of His Son. We do not. We know nothing. We couldn't bear to hear the name of God spoken, lest we perish. "I AM" is all we need to know about the names of our God and His Son in our time on this earth. The beginning and the end, the alpha and omega. Can the Seraphim angels even speak the name of God without perishing, when they cannot even present their faces or their feet in His presence. Can Isaiah even prophesy for the Lord without having the sin burnt from his lips with burning coals, lest his mouth be full of sin as he speak?

Sacred name is another division in the flock, another form of hebrew roots. God created our tongues, and gave each tongue the name for us each to use for His Son, and the name of my King is Jesus Christ in my tongue, and I praise and worship His name. If we want to get technical and lose the entire point of the Gospel, let us call Egypt by its real name of Mizraim (grandson of Noah), lets remove satan and say adversary, remove devil and say false accuser, remove demon and say 'the afflicted' or 'an affliction'. While we're at it, lets get rid of angels too, and say messengers. Oh, and lets not forget the words Gentile and Jew were never once mentioned in the Bible either, so we should say Nations or Heathen instead of gentile, and Judaen or Judahite instead of jew depending on context. Using the Roman word gentile means anyone who is not a roman citizen, so everyone in the new testament, including Jesus... was a gentile, excluding Paul and the centurion who were both roman citizens. And a Judahite is a pure blooded tribe person of the tribe of Israel - forbidden forever to inter-marry with other peoples, whereas a Judaen is absolutely anyone living in the land of Judea at the time of roman occupation, white, brown, black, yellow can all be called Judaens under that name. So all these translations or transliterations are based solely on the bias of the translators of the time.

Gets complicated doesn't it. And I haven't begun to start.

Our word God is based on the Germanic / Scythian word GOOD, In Hebrew the word is Elohim. I love both descriptions, but neither are a name. We say God and think of the Father, we say Elohim we think of the Godhead or the Godhood in present language. As in - "In the beginning ELOHIM ((the Godhead) translated God) created heaven and the earth" and we know Jesus created the Heavens and the earth for our Father - which makes the word Elohim so beautiful and empowering to understand the Godhood. Never once did Jesus pray using the name of God, He cried ABBA, FATHER, as do I in following His example. And I pray God and Jesus Christ, as this is the language names He gave me to use in prayer to my loving Father and Redeemer.

We can get technical, and lose the Gospel and fall for the wiles of the devil whose only aim is to separate and conquer the Bride, we can also educate ourselves to greater understanding, but all the way through, no matter who we are or the paths we take, we should never forget the simplicity of Salvation in Christ Jesus.

Please, I do not want to seem harsh, only loving, that none of us be lead astray in these times.

God bless.

Anonymous said...

Marriage is and always has been a covenant between man, woman, and God.

A legal marriage with permission of the government has only been around for 100 years or so depending on where we live in the world. A legal marriage is not a covenant marriage of God, it is a legal contract between man, woman and government, or now any variation thereof, and God is not included in that contract whatsoever. When they brought in marriage licenses - they removed God from the covenant and instead created a legal contract.

All of our societies are based on LAW, from God.

However, the enemy satan as he gained more control over us, created a fake mask covering that LAW, which we now call the LEGAL system. The legal system is not LAW, it is based on Maritime Admiralty Law from Phoenician times, and it is a system of commerce and trade, and is entirely based on money and commerce. The LEGAL system is a fraud masquerading as LAW.

Under this system, marriage is a joint venture of two commercial entities. It is a monetary contract. And if we apply for and take out a marriage license from those who rule us from this legal system, we are entering into a commercial contract, under license, nothing more.

The Legal system - known as the BAR (a Babylonian term - better known as BAR BAR) - is franchised out to all countries around the earth, and is operated from the City of London, which is also a private corporation. This is where all the laws on earth that govern us today come from. It's a franchised system of fake law.

Yes, the New World Order or the Old World Order re-emerged is trying so desperately to turn everything that is righteous and Godly into something hateful, and to turn everything which is abominable into something that is righteous. And yes, marriage, created by God is being destroyed through many means.

In these times, no matter what the LEGAL system may say or not say, we are all bound by the true Laws of God. If we are to marry, let us marry in the sight of men, in covenant with God, as it has always been since the garden of Eden. No-one can ever take God's Laws or Commandments from us. Our only jailer here are our own thoughts and how we've been deceived. We need permission from no man or government to marry. We should have approval from both sets of parents of course. But our marriages are always to be in covenant with God. Everything else, whatever they call it or name it or however they may legalise it - will never be marriage.

In these times, for those of us who are Christian, who wish to marry, it is now time to return to Covenant Marriage with God.

Anonymous said...

The Bible says we are to live quiet lives and mind out own business which is to be about our Father's business. When we step into the public arena of government we take a risk. There is no precedent in the Bible that Christians resisted the government even when they were martyred.

This is a thorny question to be sure and again we have the example that sound doctrine doesn't matter. Certainly not a news flash.

We cannot expect biblically sound decisions from a secular and pluralist government even based on "freedom of religion". It is what it is and a result of the apostasy and predicted in the Word of the depravity of man.

Anonymous said...

Kim Davis is in the "apostolic pentecostal" cult? No wonder she got all the satanic media coverage. The media tactic got "Christians" to stand alongside and support a woman in a cult. Satan loves it.

And they are a cult. They teach works for salvation, which leads to hell. They deny the Trinity nature of God, they have a ton of other serious errors. They are a cult.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Michael Heiser handles the Trinity topic well; If you do not have time to watch it all, I suggest the overview (fist part) and the summary (ending). - Don

Christsfreeservnt said...

BB - I have a question off-topic, sort of, because it is still on the subject of the New World Order and its global agenda. I just learned that one of my grandsons, who is 5 and is in kindergarten, is attending an international (IB PYP) school. I didn't know we had international elementary schools. I was wondering if you had done any research on this subject. Their website is I have a bad feeling about this, so I am trying to see what I can learn about it that I can share with my grandson's parents. Anything would be appreciated. Thanks. It sounds like NWO indoctrination to me.

Sorry for putting this here, but I couldn't find any topic on your site related to this.


Kayfabe said...

Anon #4, ever read Daniel chapter 3?

Anonymous said...

The Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is God, and God the Father is obviously God. Three persons . All the same God.

1 John 5:7, or the Johannine Comma, is not an error. There is a reason they weaken this verse in the other corrupt bible versions. It's because you only get half truths in the corrupt bibles.

For instance, the NIV 1 John 5:7-8 has "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." Watered down, like everything else in the corrupted, modern versions. The "consensus" is that the verse is in error in the KJV. But, either we have the perfectly preserved word of God in the KJV or we don't. And if we don't, then where can I find the perfect word of God, as promised by God; since all of the original manuscripts no longer exist.

Here are two other bible verses to show that the Holy Spirit is God.

Acts 5:3-4 "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

If the Holy Spirit is not God, then who is he?

Anonymous said...

1 John 5:7 is Scripture. The KJV is 100% accurate. Anyone who says otherwise, is a deceiver that is against the Trinity.

Kayfabe said...

I really don't know much about sacred name cults all I know is that I like using the Father's name whether it be Yahweh, Jehovah. I also like using the Son's Hebrew name, Yehoshua, Jehoshua. It feels rich to me when I do. If people just want to go with calling the Father by his title and the Son Jesus I'm fine with that. I hope you are not saying that by people using their proper names they are wrong in doing so. If that's what you are saying then you are wrong about that.

Kayfabe said...

As far as the trinity teaching goes, Paul in his many greetings to the Churches always did so in the Father and Son's name but never the Holy Spirit. Also the Father and Son have proper names whereas the Holy Spirit doesn't. The Holy Spirit is always mentioned as the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jehoshua not "God the Holy Spirit". The Trinity arose from a mixture of Babylonian, Egyptian and Roman paganism mixed with Greek philosophy. Read up on Athanasius and the Alexandrian seminary and how they were apostate and this was the school and guy that formalized and introduced the Trinity to the council of Nicaea. The Jews did not worship a triune God.

Kayfabe said...

Here is scripture noting Jehovah's headship over His Son Jehoshua. The Father is God of the Son as clearly stated in scripture by the Son himself. Also, in 1 Corinthians 15:24, Jehoshua will hand over the Kingdom back to his Father Jehovah subject to Him that the the Father may be all in all.

John 14:28 (KJV)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

 John 20:17 (KJV)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 Revelation 3:12 (KJV)

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 Matthew 27:46 (KJV)

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (KJV)

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Kayfabe said...

John 14:28 (KJV)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

 John 20:17 (KJV)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 Revelation 3:12 (KJV)

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 Matthew 27:46 (KJV)

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (KJV)

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Bible Believer said...

Kayfabe, I just don't agree.

Here is my verse, I will use.

King James Version

Rev 22
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John 8:58King James Version (KJV)

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I agree with anon at 9:19 posted on 9;11

If Jesus is not fully God, then Christianity crumbles. There is a reason the Unitarians who started off denying the Trinity went from theists to mostly being non-theists within a century.

I have to admit I am sad to hear of this teaching. It seems everyone who comments on here ends up bringing me odd theology, some stuff I never would guess at like the people who didn't even believe demons existed.

One place error reigns is defining everything by Rome. Rome can add to the confusion mixing truth with lies.

Even human beings are made of soul, mind and body, so why not the same for God?

Anonymous said...

Amen, anonymous on Sep. 11 at 9:48 am!!

And I agree, Jesus IS GOD!!
Praying for you Kafabe.

And your theory is probably right BB. They will try and do away with legal marriage.


Anonymous said...

One of the greatest delusions is the "celebrity professing christian". No one looks to examine the doctrine. Kim Davis is a perfect example. Obviously she believes she can lose her salvation which is basically a works salvation, a FALSE gospel. If one looks at Duck Dynasty they are Church of Christ which also teaches works salvation. The word christian has lost it's true meaning. It doesn't matter if it is the false gospel of Rome or the false gospel of one-ness penetecostalism, it is all from the pit. It is just more subtle than Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, etc.

The Church is steeped in delusion and those who do not take note of this and watch will be taken in. A big part of this is due to the lack of sound spiritual leadership, pastors watching over their flocks. They may be preaching the true Gospel, but they are not guarding their flocks. That is a grave responsibility that is being shirked and the consequences are that the sheep are led astray by false teachers who have "a form of godliness" but it is only surface deep. The Bible says, "Woe to them". Blind shepherds.
Can you imagine a physical shepherd trying to protect his sheep if he is blindfolded? It would be disaster and the wolves would ravage them.

A pastor can even preach through the Bible, rightly dividing the Word and think that will protect his flock from deception. It helps, but not with the wolves so cleverly disguised as sheep, weaving truth and error so craftily.

Those rallying around Kim Davis are surely drawn in by the moral stand she has taken at great personal cost. But to embrace and label it as Christian is not helpful.

It only further demonstrates the lack of concern for sound doctrine. And curiously, she is a registered Democrat which calls into question her position on other moral matters such as abortion. Could she actually be a plant designed to entrap naive Christians into the battle and create animosity? Surely that can't be ruled out as a possiblity, can it? (Not to exonerate the Republican party from hijinks, but at least they take a more conservative stance.)

Anonymous said...

"The word christian has lost it's true meaning. It doesn't matter if it is the false gospel of Rome or the false gospel of one-ness penetecostalism, it is all from the pit."

This is so true, and this says it all. The "duck dynasty" nonsense is a cult as well, the "church of christ" is a cult that leads to hell. I have made that clear with certain "christians" that love these guys, and they just don't care.

If a person doesn't care about doctrine at all, and will call anything "christian", how can they be in the truth? They're not.

Anonymous said...

Acts 5:3-4 clearly shows Peter calling the Holy Spirit and God as one. Saying that if you lie to the Holy Spirit , then you are lying to God.

As far as Paul and the Holy Spirit, look at what he wrote in Ephesians 4:4-6 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." What is in a saved christian? The Holy Spirit. This verse says that God is in you all. How? Because the Holy Spirit is God. Seems clear to me.

There are plenty of verses showing that Jesus is the one true God. The Father is not God of the Son. There is only one God. For The Father to be God of the Son would mean that there are two gods. John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Jesus does submit to the Father in his role. You might even think of a husband and wife, the wife submits to the husband, but the husband is not better than the wife. They are "one flesh"( Genesis 2:24).

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The word is Jesus (John 1:14).

Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

Philippians 2:5-6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Even the Father calls Jesus God in Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Anonymous said...

Kayefab, I have noticed your recent posts, I know where you're coming from in your beliefs that you're sharing. What you've said about the punctuations in different places that can change the meaning of the Scripture... what you're really referring to is a single Scripture, and it's this one:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Which you want to translate to...

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This is the hell denying doctrine of all Millerite derivative religions like the JWs and SDAs and the others, as well as just about every other TV preacher today, and every new cult, Joyce Myers loves this one too, as well as the we're all little gods doctrine.

You are quoting KJV. So with your KJV, please tell me of a single instance where Jesus ever said the phrase "Veriy I say unto thee, today.........(insert Jesus' words here)" - NEVER ONCE did He use that phrasology. Type this phrase into your computer KJV, and please tell me where once it changes. Every single time He said "Verily I say unto thee to day" - followed by the comma and His Truth !!! Except the Millerites, their derivatives and all other new age cult now are saying that in this single phrase Jesus totally changed this expression in this one instance when on the cross.

What about:

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Greek word here is "KREMANNUMI" - it translates "HANG" not impale.

Tree here is "XULON" which can be any instrument or object made from timber, including a timber fence, which is obvious to what it refers to in this death penalty by the Romans.

See also Acts 5:30 and Acts 10"39, both of which are referring to Deuteronomy 21:23.

We know Jesus died on the instrument of death - STAUROS - which can also mean the cross, and was not killed first and then hung on a XULON afterwards.

The cross also beared by Simon and Jesus in the streets is also the STAUROS, which can also be translated as cross, pole, timber or even the cross bar of the cross. When we think about it, how can a single many bear the weight of an entire pole or cross for crucificition? They cannot, it is symbolism for the Romans, to carry the crossbar after already being beaten and lashed to near death.

All your other arguments are all based in Millerism too, you are following their doctrines to a TEE. Including the Spirit of God argument, the cross (STAUROS), impaling, and the other things, all from Millerism.

Impaling is what Vlad the Implaer did, it's when they sharpen a spike, dig it into the ground, and insert the victim on top of that spike via their rectum. It takes days to die as the victim is so ever slowly impaled through their entire body. No need for breaking of legs to suffocate the "HANGING" victim like the Romans did. Is this how you are saying Jesus was killed? Impaled in His rectum? The French did something similar under Napolean when they invaded Spain, though this was impaling through the gut, not elsewhere, and this took only miutes to die.

If so He would not have given up the Spirit after a few hours, and breaking legs would have done nothing to quicken the deaths of the others.

The Millerite claims of a single pole - STAUROS again - may be valid, it is plausible. But studying the different methods of crucifixiton used by the Romans, this death only took about 10 minutes to suffocate the victim to death. It is pointless when the entire reason for crucifixtion was the torture over hours and days. A CROSS crucifixtian can take hours and days for the victim to die a horrendous death. Exactly what the Romans wanted. Either on a T or a CROSS.

We know Jesus and the thieves were on the cross for hours, not minutes.


Anonymous said...

Kayefab, did you know the first image of Jesus was found in an enormous underground city in Asia Minor, which then later became Byzantine, the Eastern Roman Empire, which then 1,000 years later got invaded and is now called Turkey... The image was painted by Roman soldiers after they discovered this underground city of Christians hiding. The picture is of a man, with a donkey's head - hanging on a CROSS. Meaning everyone knew at that time knew how Jesus died, the Romans balsphemed Him with the head of a donkey, but on the CROSS.

The CROSS is a Babylonian and Egyptian symbol, its also in the Hindu, Shinto, Mayan and Aztec religions too, all of which come from Babylon, which the NWO and their cults are trying to hide the true meaning of, that's why the cults want to deny the cross. They want to reinvent it and restore it to its true meaning as they re-establish their Babylonian religion across the planet. But first they need to take the symbol and meaning of the cross away from the Christians.

Pole theory and sacred name theory is brand new doctrine from satan and his cults. Always for a purpose, and that purpose leads straight back to hebrew roots.

Brother, you are following Millerism, except for the sacred name part, which tells me that you are either adjoined to yet another NEW Millerite derived religion which now includes sacred name, or you have added the brand new sacred name ideologies on top of your Millerite religion? I don't know.

Youtube has many documentaries about Millerisim, there is one really good one. Find out exactly where your beliefs are coming from.

Jesus did not go to hell for three days, this is wrongly translated in the KJV, He went to the section of Sheol known as Paradise, and He preached to the spirits of the dead that they receive the Gospel and be saved also, because if they did not receive the Gospel of Christ - then how on earth could they ever be resurrected to righteousness - when all who died before Christ - died without Christ and therefore they had no covering for their sin, including every righteous man, woman and child and prophet of God... none of them have their sins covered except if Jesus went to Sheol to share His Gospel that they be saved also. David was waiting to see his dead child in the resurrection, was David deceived?

Who else can defeat death, go to Sheol, save the lost, and return, and ascend into Heaven, except Jesus Christ.

KJV does a bad job with translating Hell properly, Luckily we have our concordance, and can quickly see the differences and find the right words for the right meanings. I use River Bible with the Mac and all I have to do is tap on any word and the concordance definition comes up instantly. So every time grave, sheol, hell, tartarus, paradise, ground etc is mentioned, one tap and I have the right Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek word and full understanding of the text.

The denying of Sheol and also hell - better referred to as Tartarus, as well as denying the lake of fire of Revelation, imparts a single new belief onto us all, and that belief is exactly the same as the atheist belief that the majority of our families now believe... that there is no Judgement, there is no punishment for the wicked. According to the Millerites and the other cults - the wicked just don't wake up from soul sleep and don't get the reward of everlasting life.

Both positions are grave deceptions. My God is a Perfect Judge and He does Judge and punish the wicked. And denying punishment of the wicked only encourages those of no faith to commit gross evil in our lands and in the sight of God, in order to satisfy their lusts of the flesh in this lifetime. Which is exactly what the devil wants. The devil knows his fate, and his only purpose now is to destroy as much of God's creation as he possibly can and to bring as many as possible to the same Judgement that he already has. Hell and the lake of fire.

Anonymous said...

The word God does not translate from Elohim. So many of us are mistaken of what the term God means or represents.

We say God and think of the Father, and then we want to add the Son and the Spirit to the one. Then we are attacked by those who oppose God when they say how can God be on earth and in Heaven at the same time (example Genesis 19:24), and how can Jesus pray to God while on this earth if He is God and is showing subservience to His Father. Both are justified and relevant arguments that we must understand in order to defend our faith.

But this is not the right way to look at it. Elohim is all encompassing of the Godhead - or Godhood in today's language.

Elohim does not mean the Father alone, nor does it signify the Son alone. It is more a term denoting creator or ruler of everything, which we now call the Godhead. Elohim created the Heavens and the earth, and the one of Elohim which created these was Jesus. I won't go into the Spirit here...

Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus is the express image of the Father. Jesus is the Elohim and the Word who spoke to all prophets, Jesus spoke to Moses, Jesus had to die not only to cover our sins, but because the ONLY way to end a covenant is with the death of the covenant maker or the testator. Ending the first testament or covenant.

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

If Jesus did not die, then there would be no possible way to ever end His own first covenant, and to bring forth a new covenant. It's impossible. The testator MUST die. How does Elohim die....... and this is where we understand our Jesus.

Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is BEGOTTEN OF the Father. The Father is Elohim, therefore Jesus is Elohim.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

The seraphim angels cannot look upon The Father, who can look upon Him except Christ Jesus.

No man on earth has seen the Father, but so many have seen Elohim, the creator, Jesus Christ.

And just who was it that was walking through the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day?

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God (Yahweh Elohim) walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

Jesus Christ, our creator, our Father, our Elohim, our God, our Yahweh, our testator, But not THE FATHER.

Lastly, be very wary of Michael Heiser, he is extraordinarily knowledgeable in ancient languages, but he may also be a deceiver. He flips between flat earth and ball earth without taking a stand, he speaks to UFO conferences and again will not take a stand - remember the Aliens in the NWO are the Nephalim, he heavily pushes Nephalim / Aliens more than almost anything else he talks about.

I'm not picking on anyone here. But this man who is so incredibly knowledgeable in languages so often is speaking exactly as a deceived minister in every church in every country on earth with the most stupidest of mistakes when he is claiming to spread the real truth of translations. And with the pushing of Nephalim, he is someone to be watchful of.

Honestly, when you hear him speak for hours and days, I do not believe at all that he is Christian, his beliefs are just too weird and so different from Scripture. He goes to war with Icke and Sitchen and debunks the Annunaki lie, but he also still promotes the possibility the gods are aliens theories.

Michael Heiser is not our saviour of truth in these time. Just beware of the NWO doctrines he may possibly be supporting.

Anonymous said...

Kayfabe, you are pushing Millerite doctrines over and over again. The more the night wears on as I read your posts - the more I tremble for you. Absolutely nothing you are pointing out or referring to here on this blog is new. You are educating no-one. Everything you are saying is straight from the Millerite agenda which still continues in 100 different guises today, + you are adding sacred name into the Millerites now as well. I have responded to you here tonight already - but the more I read the more I worry for you.

My parents have been in the JWs for 50 years, they are so conditioned into their beliefs, they cannot bear any word that opposes what they believe, even when all of it is fully backed by Scripture. I show them lies in their own Bible and they still will not stomach it. They refuse to read their Bible except Proverbs on their own because they fear they will go into darkness if they read any Scripture without the guidance of their masters. Their entire belief and religion is based on man made publications made by their leadership. They will not read the Bible on their own. They turn their heads and say no, no, not right, "I don't see it". No person on earth can be saved of God except they join the JWs. Anyone else who thinks they are Christian are really working for the devil trying to destroy "Jehovah's" "Faithful and Discreet Slave".

My parents believe I am a servant of the devil because I speak of Jesus outside of their religion.

Exactly the same as the catholics teach too.

They honestly believe that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and that we are already in some magical 1,000 years of His reign. They believe Rutherford and Russell are the two witnesses in the Bible. It's so whacky but they cannot see anything - they are blind. They read and believe the Watchtower magazine and not the Bible. Putting the word of man over the Word of God, exactly as the catholics do.

JWs are just Millerites, as are SDAs, as are over 100 other religions based on exactly the same doctrines and origins.

All funded into existence by the same people who funded every other cult, and Hitler, and white supremacist groups, who took over Russia, who started the women's movements (feminism - abortion), the same people who today have legalized sodomite "marriage", same people who started and funded the entire pornography industry. These are your masters and the creators of your beliefs. It is a funding body created to promote and advance NWO ideology and social changes. All with the sole intention of destroying God, Christ and salvation, and creating division within the congregation.

I don't know what your religion is - but I do know you are a Millerite 100%. I know also that you have been in a Millerite cult or you are still in a Millerite cult, or that you have left a Millerite cult and are now joining sacred name onto your Millerite background and beliefs.

Please dear brother, I know you are genuine in your love of God, I can see it, I do not deny it. Whatever religion you are a part of or have been a part of in the past - it doesn't matter. Please do your own research on the Millerites, know and understand all the off shoots of this movement of satan. I guarantee, whatever your background that you will find your belief system and your religion past or present - is 100% derived from the Millerites.

cdf said...

satan can't get rid of God's holy marriage no matter what humans do.

Also, there is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We all know that. The arguments are nonsensical to me.

There are many more arguments that, to me, supersede this one. But what do I know?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:28pm, you hit the nail on the head There are many good preachers rightly dividing the Word of God, but that does not mean that they are necessarily good pastors (under shepherds). It's always interesting going into a church library. The books available speak volumes concerning discernment. Anyway, this situation concerning Kim Davis isn't close to being over. Emotions are running high. The Holy Spirit is leading me to sit back and see how this plays out before running my mouth. In other words, wait and watch with much caution. I believe traps are being set for the unsuspecting professing Christian who lacks discernment. Will this turn into a political/religious circus? Time will tell. This is exactly why we need to be rooted in God's Word, and following the leading of the Holy Spirit. It will protect us!

Kayfabe said...

I believe in full divinity of Jehovah and Jehoshua. I believe the Holy spirit is the spirit of Jehovah and Jehoshua. I believe the Holy Spirit is the unseen presence and person of Jehoshua Messiah. I also believe it is the mind, breath and wind of Jehovah and Jehoshua according to the Hebrew and Greek meaning of the word spirit.

Ruth Latimer said...

Kayfabe, I don't even read your comments. You sound like someone who was on here before spewing the same rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anon 9/13 11:23 a.m.

Let's keep our discernment radar up and observe where this is going. There are bound to be many facets to it which will become evident as time goes on.

I listened to Mrs. Davis' remarks this morning and have to agree that there needs to be an accommodation for people with convictions of conscience. In the military there can be conscious objectors, etc. The government has an obligation to protect religious liberty. The problem is that the issue has been framed as civil rights of minorities. Obviously the world and governments have been given over to delusion as have in large part what is labeled as "Christian".

Kim David claims belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. If she is truly a believer and has been deceived that there is no Holy Spirit, only God knows if she is genuinely saved as He knows her heart.

The anon who said that the word "Christian" has lost its meaning, that happened a long time ago and is now in full bloom. Confusion reigns. Millions flock to get a glimpse of the Pope here in the U.S. despite the scandals in the priesthood.

What are true, discerning Christians to do? Pray and fasten your seat belts because it is going to get worse until the Lord calls it to a halt. He is still on the throne. We must not forget that. All this stuff is predicted in the Word for our time. Our job is to remain faithful and not live in fear. Like the anon says, sit back, hold your peace and wait and see. So thankful for this forum where we can have a voice and gain encouragement from like-minded believers.

I don't agree with BB on everything, including eschatology, but I believe she is a sincere believer, sister in Christ who is courageous. We do agree on the doctrine that are essential to salvation and that is what is most important. Our differing views on end times will all be sorted out in time. In the meantime, I value her ministry and her transparency.

We need to pray for the remnant, the ones who are standing strong and not going with the flow. These are perilous times, as the Word says and we cannot assume that we are immune to deception and delusion. Blessings to you BB and to all who stand for truth and sound doctrine.

Anonymous said...

This probably is not important, but did anyone else notice that in one appearance with Huckabee Kim Davis' hair was long and flowing and in another one that seemed to be in close proximity her hair was braided? Strange.

Anonymous said...

Anon on 9/13 @ 7:32am I worship Jesus Christ, not Michael Heiser. Having said that, I think Michael Heiser's definition of Elohim is much better than yours. The reason being if we look at Psalm 82:7, you would have God killing himself and I just do not see that happening. You might want to rethink your definition of Elohim. - Don

Kayfabe said...

So because someone uses the actual names of The Father and the Son, they belong to a cult? Really? Im not legalistic about it, if people want to address the Father by a title that is fine with me, it's not a salvation issue.

Anonymous said...

Don, I do like you :) I love so many of your one and two sentence replies, they bring a smile to my face, you give insights as do so many others, and you are my brother, of which I do not doubt.

Jesus Christ is my King. Though like you and all others, He does not visit nor speak to me personally. We are all each lead by the Spirit of God in so many different ways, with different understands, and knowing all things work to the glory of God, this is how I personally perceive why there is a difference between so many of us. Honestly, if every commenter on this blog, or every Christian were to take a poll about their beliefs, we would all be different. Why? A watchman on each post is the best reasoning I can reason, that we do all work together in these times in different ways.

But of course others are deceived.

A preterist says the mark of the beast was swearing of allegiance to the Roman emperor as a Babylonian god, and that the swearer received a certificate in their hand to say that they swore to Caesar, or a slave be marked on their foreheads with a brand, that they may buy and sell under Roman law. Which was true for that time after Christ... and if your refused to submit or swear allegiance to Caesar of god, you would be killed on the spot. But today a Pre-tribber or a Post-tribber says BEWARE the mark of the beast, electronic microchips implanted. Which is also right? Or are both right? And both can be right, and both can be working together for truth and to help each other understand truth and to be aware. Would not a preterist have no problem being microchipped, if it were not for the warnings of their brethren that the microchip is the mark of the beast? We work together.

I do not compare to Michael Heiser. Not close.

I cannot comprehend Elohim, and I will never pretend to. I only know my Father and my Creator from Scripture.

But Michael Heiser says all angels are Elohim, Satan is Elohim, demons are Elohim, as well as our Father and our Saviour being Elohim and the entire host of Heaven are Elohim. I don't believe this and I never will. Am I wrong? Maybe I am. I just do not see it. This is where we must part ways. But you are still my brother.

When you understand the brand new flat earth theory and the goods they are selling... what it all comes down to is that earth as we know it is situated on a vast infinite plane. No Universe, no Space. And that there are unlimited earths on this great flat plane. Flat earth shills always say that there are "OTHERS" on other earths on this infinite plane.

And all of that leads straight back to the Aliens and Nehphilim agenda. If the aliens and demons and nephilim and demons didn't come from outer space or from God or are fallen angels, they are now coming from other earths on the infinite plane. Same as Icke and Sitchen. If it's not this, the it's CERN creating portals to bring back the Nephilim / Aliens. It's all the same agenda.

I do not come close to Heiser. I only know he pushes UFOs, Elohim as everything which is in Heaven including angels demons and satan, flat earth, as well as the possibility that the "gods" may be from other sources than what we may understand. Link that to the UFOs and Flat Earth he talks about, and we get exactly the same belief system that everyone else on this earth is now falling for.

We have creators, which we have known as gods in times past, CERN is opening a portal for the "gods", the Hebrew for god is actually "gods" - 'Elohim'. Space may not be real but the infinite plane is real with our creators who 'seeded us' on this earth.

It doesn't matter who we follow or believe, it always lead back to that we are to expect "VISITORS" soon. Whether we believe them to be gods or aliens from outer space, or aliens from the infinite plane. Its all the same, and all roads lead back to Rome, including the Michael Heiser road.

Anonymous said...

Don, also, if you do believe that Michael Heiser is being 100% truthful with us, then when you read Genesis 1:1, your own interpretation must be that "In the beginning, God, Jesus Christ, the angels, satan, and the demons created the heavens and the earth".

All of the heavenly host are Elohim according to Heiser, and he specifically includes satan, demons and angels within the term Elohim.

I believe Jesus Christ created all things on earth, and the earth. He is the Son of God, therefore He is Elohim. I have no conflict at all. Also reference Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Elohim created all in Genesis 1, but Yahweh Elohim (Lord God in the KJV) doesn't show up until chapter 2. This does not phase my beliefs at all, it only reinforces who my God is.

If you believe that my interpretation of Elohim is wrong, I do please beg you to tell me with full explanation how I am wrong. With all sincerity, I have listened to everything Heiser has had to say. He is a genius. But I do not believe satan or demons are Elohim, nor do I believe in the possibility that there is an infinite plane and that our gods or Elohim are from other earths on the infinite plane, nor do I believe in UFOs from other planets.

If God did create other planets, He said NOTHING about it in the Bible. And if He created others in His own image on other planets, then they would all have been prone to sin as were Adam and Eve, and Jesus Christ would have had to been killed on every single planet over and over again, to end the first covenant which masked sin, then to die for the sins of their worlds, and to bring in a new covenant for them to have a covering for their sin. I just don't see it at all.

If you can show me any single instance in Scripture which at all alludes to Elohim being anything other than our FATHER, JESUS CHRIST our Creator, and the Holy Spirit as being our Elohim, PLEASE show me, I am desperate and so hungry for TRUTH.

You reference Psalm 82.

1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods (ELOHIM).

6 I have said, Ye are gods (ELOHIM); and all of you are children of the most High.

1 - Does God the Father Judge His Son? Does God the Father Judge His own Holy Spirit? I say NO.

6 - Are we all little gods as says Benny Hinn, Joyce Myers, all TV evangelists, and all cults? I say NO.

So just who is David referring to by revelation of Jesus Christ? Who are these Elohim he refers to? Are they gods? Are we gods? God judges satan and the demons, are satan and the demons Elohim? Are we gods? Is satan a god? Millerites believe Jesus and satan are both gods with a little "g", as well as all mankind.

Jesus under trial alluding to Himself as God and said:

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (THEOS - ELOHIM)
35 If he called them gods (THEOS - ELOHIM), unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?.

How was Jesus not stoned? Because the word Elohim or Theos does not mean GOD as we know it. Great ruler, great creator, great master in Hebrew or Greek. Therefore it can be given as title to God and Man. In the heavenly realm GOD, on earth rulers of men. Just as today Jesus Christ is my KING, yet on this earth I may have an earthly king or queen or president.

The disciples called JESUS - LORD (KURIOS) but KURIOS can also mean any leader, including a king or a ship boat captain. Is the head of a church deserved of the same title as Christ?

What's the difference? It's easy to see.

Just as the Pharisees tried to trip up Jesus with the adulteress to force Him to enact the death penalty forbidden under Roman law, so too did they try and trip Him up here to force Him to admit under Roman law that He was God. because under Roman Babylonian law, Caesar was god. And Had He quoted any other Scripture or said any other thing - the Romans would have seized Him and crucified Him instantly.

saintinlight said...

By looking at all the "diverse" views and statements on "Christianity" from the commenters, the "Body of Christ" is in an absolute mess.
Hebrew Roots/Sacred Name, Lordship Salvationism,all kinds of "true names of God "Elohim" decption, instead of Jesus Christ,the King James Bible is Not the Word of God, "Christians" like kayfabe, believing in the Non-Sense propagated on TV and in the world, believing controlled opposition like Kim Davis and Kent Hovind, saying God made mistakes with His Word given in English for the entire world,-the King James Bible AV 1611 (What Spirit of Antichrist NONSENSE!),SDA NONSENSE etc,Quoting the Luciferian "bibles" of Westcott and Hort, etc ,etc.
Only a few commenters are spot on in Truth.
Deceiving and being deceived, those in great error shall wax worse and worse...
The Adversary has done a masterful job!
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The Truth is as simple as the simplicity found in Christ Jesus, the way the truth and the life.Being saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and shall lead into ALL truth.
John 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
God is separating the sheep from the goats...there will be many more goats than sheep.....

saintinlight said...

By looking at all the "diverse" views and statements on "Christianity" from the commenters, the "Body of Christ" is in an absolute mess.
Hebrew Roots/Sacred Name, Lordship Salvationism,all kinds of "true names of God "Elohim" instead of Jesus Christ,the King James Bible is Not the Word of God, "Christians" like kayfabe, believing in the Non-Sense propagated on TV and in the world, believing controlled opposition like Kim Davis and Kent Hovind, saying God made mistakes with His Word given in English for the entire world,-the King James Bible AV 1611 (What Spirit of Antichrist NONSENSE!),SDA NONSENSE etc,Quoting the Luciferian "bibles" of Westcott and Hort, etc ,etc.
Only a few commenters are spot on in Truth.
Deceiving and being deceived, those in great error shall wax worse and worse...
The Adversary has done a masterful job!
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The Truth is as simple as the simplicity found in Christ Jesus, the way the truth and the life.Being saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and shall lead into ALL truth.
John 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
God is separating the sheep from the goats...there will be many more goats than sheep.....

Anonymous said...

Kim Davis is not saved. She believes that you must be water baptized to be saved. That is works for salvation, which leads to hell. We don't need to give the world's nonsense answer of "God knows the state of her soul". Of course He knows. But God gave us His Word, so we would know the state of someone's soul based on what they tell us that they believe.

tsisageya said...

There is only one name given to us to know our father. There is only one name that saves us. Why can't people look at it and understand?

I guess it's because...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:59,

Interesting comment, "She believes that you must be water baptized to be saved."

There are many in the 501c. 3 church system that believe this. In our area, the Lutheran denomination believes that baby baptism is vital in going to heaven. A Lutheran family member criticizes those in our area that choose not to have their infant baby baptized in the church stating, "Those babies are going to hell if they are not baptized!" The Baptists in our area really stress baptism as "a sign" that you are saved and the Assembly of God church in our area believes that you must be "immersed" in water as a "true baptism," just as John the Baptist baptized.

Then I have a Covenant church woman sitting at my kitchen table making a big dear about her "adult baptism" after she was saved, indicating that was she was now going to heaven. Since her self righteousness was getting the best of me, I asked her point blank, "So that one thief on that tree next to Jesus, recognizing that He was and is the Savior of the World, is going to hell because he was not baptized? Even when Jesus clearly stated that "tomorrow you will be with Me in Paradise?"

If churches really believe that baptism is necessary to spending eternity with our Risen LORD, well then, by their own false doctrines, that would make Jesus a liar?

Anonymous said...

Anon on 9/15 @ 9:39 I do not think Michael Heiser is capable of being 100% truthful. I do not think any human is, yourself and myself included. I already gave your the verse and reason in my last comment. I think you need to write a book or something, but I do like you too. I frequent this blog is to learn, think and grow. BB does a good work here and the post topics are interesting. We all will just have to get over ourselves and respect each other in this fallen mess we call home for now. - Don

Kayfabe said...

Wow! So many people here condemning people to Hell for having different views on scripture. Remember only Jehovah and Jehoshua can send people to eternal destruction. You may be suprised who ends up in Heaven after the Second Advent of Jehoshua. If you have not love it matters not how many T's you have crossed or I's you have dotted in your theology. Do your research and you will find that the early believers in Messiah were Binitarian (semi arian) they weren't Trinitarian's. It was until Athanasius, who came out of the Alexandrian, Egypt seminary which was corrupted with Neoplantonic greek philosophy and Babylonian paganism, did the Trinity doctrine get traction. This was in the 4th century people, three hundred years after our Saviour died for our sins. It was at the council of Nicaea that Athanasius debated Arius on the divinity of Jehoshua. Both were wrong and the truth was in the middle which was that Jehoshua is fully God but he is not the Father. Jehoshua is eqaul to the Father in nature but the Father is higher in position and authority. Scripture clearly teaches this but Trinitarian's philosophize it away and can back up their doctrine with plain scripture. The homeostasis teaching that Athanasius came up with was born out of platonic philosophy. Trinitarian's say that the Godhead is a mystery because they can't even explain their doctrine clearly but scripture says that we are given the ability to understand the mystery of the Godhead. Constantine pushed for the Roman Church to accept either Athanasius false Godhead teaching or Arius false Godhead teaching at the 325 council . Constantine could care less about doctrinal truth he just wanted a united church for the purposes of having a stronger empire. The council of Constantinople in 381 AD sealed the deal for the Trinity and all other variations of the Godhead were deemed heretical by the Catholic Church as the Trinity became their baby. It makes sense since Triads / trinity's have their roots in paganism starting in ancient mystery Babylon and in Egypt, Greece, Rome, Hinduism etc. Look up the word spirit in greek and Hebrew for what it means. Why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned as sitting on a throne in Heaven. Why over and over again in the old testament is the Holy Spirit described as the spirit of Yahweh and not it's own separate being? The Israelites did not worship a triune God! All, of Paul's epistles to the assemblies greet the brethren in the name of God the Father Jehovah and the Son Jehoshua Messiah but leave out the supposed third member of the Godhead-The Holy Spirit.

As far as Kim Davis goes, why don't you pray for her that she sees truth rather than condemn her to Hell?

Anonymous said...

Anon 9-15 1:59 p.m.

You were a bit harsh, don't you think? I made the statement that only God knows her heart because that is true. I did not have knowledge of what her church teaches except I assumed that most Apostolics don't believe in eternal security of the believer. I was not aware that they believe in baptismal regeneration. I was only willing to extend grace to the woman and not judge whether she is saved or not.

I received the Lord as a child but when older was baptized in a church that teaches baptismal regeneration. I didn't have the benefit of being disciple. It was later that I came to know it was false doctrine and I got baptized again for the right reasons. But even while I was in that church the Lord knew my heart and that I was truly His. I don't know Mrs. Davis' history or spiritual background so I don't feel I can presume that she is not saved. She is obviously as you pointed out in a church that teaches falsely, but I know that one's life can take a detour.

The question here is whether she should be given accommodation to follow the dictates of her conscience under the law of the land.

Of course no one is saved through water baptism or good works of any kind. This woman has a strong conviction and our government does not allow for that or respect that. Next time it could be a genuine Christian.

Anonymous said...


Fascinating information you presented in your comment post as I have never heard, nor researched the source of the Trinitarian doctrines before. In a way, what you have presented makes some sense to me, for we do know in part what the Scriptures say about Jesus' Second Coming. Only God, the Father, knows when His Son is coming back again, for Jesus proclaimed Himself that He does not know the time. And we do not know the time of His Coming either, although many false prophets and prophetesses claim to know when He shall return due to their interpretations of "the signs."

I will research what you have said Kayfabe and come to my own conclusions, praying every step of the way. There is one thing that does bother me, it that the triquetra sign is used as a "symbol" of the trinity which is of pagan origin as well. Many Bible publishers imprint this satanic symbol right on the front cover of their Bibles in plain sight. Most Christians I come across don't know what these symbols mean nor do they care for some say, "symbols have no power." I won't even go into how many Christians or churches have a picture of a 'jesus' in their buildings. It seems like icons and idolatry are alive and when in churches/Christianity in general.

Anonymous said...


Doesn't look too good for her.
Someone made some good points. Accommodations are made more Muslim prisoners who committed terrorist acts in regards to their observance of their religion. We don't agree with her doctrine, but we do see where she should be entitled to a solution to the dilemma that was dumped on us by the Supreme Court - which is not supposed to legislate from the bench according to the balance of powers in the Constitution. As citizens we should be concerned with this even though we as Christians are only pilgrims passing through. This is an injustice despite all the political rhetoric to gain points with the evangelical segment of society. It goes beyond that.

She most likely will be sent back to jail because the powers that be will not bend to give her accommodation for her beliefs and have the courage to do so. At least the politicians such as Huckabee and Cruz although they made a mistake with Josh Duggar and we can't be certain of their doctrine and how solid it is, there is still a principle that applies in a pluralistic society.

We are to be in the world and no of it. We have to live here and be citizens of this country until we are called to our heavenly home.

One interesting thing - Mrs. Davis is a Democrat. How does she reconcile what that party stands for as a Christian such as abortion? Does not her Lord care about these innocent lives? She identifies with a party that supports abortion.

This topic is far from over.

Bible Believer said...

Kayfabe, I hope you rethink the false doctrine you have been given. Lew White would like us to believe even the use of the word "God" is pagan. Some of these types will confuse issues to the extreme and wrest them so people will be left in more confusing. Jesus Christ is fully God, He is not to be demoted like the JWS and other cults have done. I wrote a new post where I basically wrote to you, "I am not interested in being a Unitarian again". You deny that "three in one" scripture because it is against these views, when you start playing chop chop with the Word of God you are in the middle of departing from the faith. I posted other verses that make it clear Jesus Christ is God. Satan is a mimicker, why else do you think the pagans came up with their own versions of "saviors"? Here too the nature of the Godhead would be mimicked as well. I brought up the fact of human beings being body, soul and mind, does this mean we are pagan as well? Are you trying to tell us Paul didn't believe in the Holy Sprit either or saw the Holy Spirit in a "lower" position? Obviously when it comes to God, there are three "beings" [three in one] but you are running into deep theological trouble when demoting one or the other. So you call yourself a binitarian. Is this something between a Unitarian and Trinitarian? I have never heard this term before and it sounds like something new they are coming up with to confuse you. Now we have the denial of the Holy Spirit and His personhood in these false teachings.

John 15:26King James Version (KJV)

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

I don't want Kim Davis to go to hell and pray she will be saved and depart from the politicians.

Bible Believer said...

It's true next time it could be a genuine Christian. That person may be convicted to leave their job. What other choice can there be? The office is marrying homosexuals even if the Christian clerk is spared having the paperwork to be signed to their desk. What Christian would want to be a part of that?

The Trifecta symbol is wrong and evil since 666 is often part of the design but doesn't discount the three persons in the Godhead.

I agree that what happened to Davis is an injustice. Sadly they are pushing something that is NOT marriage on society. I do not believe she will have accommodation and believe accommodation in this matter definitely would be compromise to any true Christian's beliefs. I could not be part of an office that marries homosexuals. Treating homosexuals for medical problems or selling them a cake, is a different matter. She probably will end up back in jail unless she quits her job and walks away. I did not know she was a Democrat. That is interesting.

I believe they are setting up future discrimination for Christians. CHristians will be denied jobs more and more on beliefs. The cake protesters, do not realize the tables can be turned and one day they will be shut from retail establishments for being of the wrong religious beliefs. Sadly the gays are being used for many incursions, they are setting up legal precedent for open discrimination against various groups. Christians can easily be one of those groups one day.

The marriage issue is going to be a total mess with the polygamists and others getting in on the game and Christian people being told they have to give marriage licenses to homosexuals or else get put in jail.

Kayfabe said...

I guess for me I keep it simple, the Father, the Son and their Holy Spirit. I never demoted Yashua's divinity as I believe he is Fully God as I also believe the Father Jehovah is Fully God. Basically Binitarianism is a two person Godhead, the Father and the Son. As far as the Holy Spirit goes, my understanding is that it is the unseen presence and person of Yashua and Jehovah. So, I do believe in the personhood of the Holy Spirit. My comment about condemning Kim Davis to hell was directed at one the anons. My Christianity is pretty primitive and I try not to go beyond what is written. As far as the sacred name stuff goes I, love using the name Jehovah for the Father and Jehoshua for the Son but I absolutely have no problem with the name Jesus Christ as I use that too. I love the name Jehoshua because it means "the salvation of Jehovah". I personally there is nothing wrong with using the hebrew name of Jesus or the Fathers name Jehovah or Yahweh. If others dont do it Im fine with it. I guess my question would be, is it wrong to use the Father's name and Jesus hebrew name?

Anonymous said...

I apologize - this is off topic but in a way related.
Kayfabe's apparent love of pro "rassling" is disturbing as on his site. This is a mockery of the true sport of wrestling which has no professional status. Pro "rassling" is for entertainment purposes only and staged. The personas are designed to stir up people's basest emotions. I once attended such an exhibition and was appalled by the actions of the audience. One has only to watch it on TV nowadays to see it for what it is.

How does this relate to the discourse regarding the Holy Spirit? Perhaps I am wrong, but one who is blinded by the god of this world to glorify such nonsense may find it hard to recognize sound doctrine that BB has been trying to explain with a great deal of grace I might add.

Could KF have been taken in by some Hebrew roots teaching?

I pray that KF will see the light regarding the worldliness of pro "rassling" and see it for what it is. This is not to question the validity of KF's faith, only to express concern for him. He obviously has a genuine concern for false teaching as a loyal follower of this blog. Perhaps it is God's will to surface the topic of the Holy Spriit/Trinity to edify KF. May it be so.

Bible Believer said...

Anon, All of us have hobbies--I collect stamps. I guess I see pro wrestling as one for some. There are other groups besides the mainstream WWF which definitely has sinful aspects. I do not think that is necessarily sinful as it is a sport in some areas and in some cultures and many know it is a "show" without it being a "lie" including the audience. Thanks for saying I have tried to explain these things with grace.

Kayfabe I just do not agree with Binitarianism. If one admits Jesus is God and God the Father is God, why not the Holy Spirit? It seems from some quick googling I did, this belief arose with some of those "early church fathers" and you know what I have written about them. Why demote the Holy Spirit? I think it is okay to use Jesus Hebrew name. I am glad you are mindful of the sacred names movement. Back to the Holy Spirit even Jesus referred Himself to the Holy Spirit as The Counselor. Even Jesus says, "He will bear witness of me". Why would Jesus refer to "He"? If the Holy Spirit was just a "part" of Jesus or God the Father wouldn't Jesus had said in a different way.

There are verses that show the personhood of the Holy Spirit in scripture.
Acts 5:3-4King James Version (KJV)

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


Acts 10:19

19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.


Acts 13:2

2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

I hope you will reconsider some of these teachings.

One thing I found is one can be diverted in seeking purity in religion and wanting to avoid the pagan. Lew White and the rest did it. Even Hebrew Roots as you know fools people by trying to tell them they must be "pure" according to Old Testament Law. If one seriously looks at scripture, the Holy Spirit has "personhood" and is and equal party, look at those verses where the Holy Spirit directly communicates.

Kayfabe said...


I think you posted before about my pro wrestling blog. Btw, it only has one post so it is inactive. My fandom of Pro wrestling is of the Territory era (1948-1991). I loathe the current product. BB is right, a lotnif sinful stuff in mainstream wrestling today especially WWF (now WWE). I stopped watching in 2000 after the WWF's only remaining competition (WCW) was sold to WWF. Vince McMahon Jr. owner of the WWF is looked at as the antichrist of the wrestling industry and his WWF/E as the one world government of pro wrestling. Basically he ruined the sport I love as there used to be numerous options with different territories to watch and enjoy that each had their own wrestlers and their tv shows and angles (storylines).

Anonymous said...

Now I see Kim Davis has received a discipleship award from the Family Research Council.....does anyone else agree that what we see as christianiy with all of its worldly awards and praises from men and women is an exact mirror image of the so called secular hedonistic world that 'the church' criticizes? people actually believe Kim Davis is a martyr for the faith in Jesus Christ? This thing that is called Christianity here in America is becoming more entertaining than a circus? And has she proclaimed the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ to those lost people that come into her office, or does she cower behind a government title on that one.