Saturday, June 13, 2015

The Duggar Daughters

If you saw this, from the other week. Be forewarned. I almost didn't post this because I am tired of Duggars in the news. I was too fed up to post the lie fest of the Duggar parents who were shown on the same show as the daughters. I have never seen such controlled people in my life, now told as young adults to defend their abuser and their parents instituting psycho rules over them all.

I don't buy that they were all "sleeping". That seems to be a repeated lie to minimize what was done.. Two of the victims definitely weren't according to the police report. The Duggar parents in their interview seemed to be lying about many things. I think if you have to make strange rules in your household to control the predatory behavior of one son, something has gone very wrong. They didn't protect their daughter properly. As I wrote I wonder what else has happened in that house? There are so many sex abusers being exposed out there in the ATI world.

The NWO religion circles are a hotbed of sociopathic predators. I pray these young women wake up before it's too late and realize what their parents are really are about.


sherry said...

Do you have a link to the police report? Maybe the other two girls aren't speaking, because they weren't asleep, and it affected them a bit more profoundly. I personally couldn't believe how the girls did not wake up. I am a deep sleeper, but if someone touched my 'private parts', I would be awakened with shock and that part I cannot understand. I have heard that sometimes little kids will play house or doctor, and will show each other 'what they've got.' However, I found it even more disturbing that he did it to a five year old, sitting on his lap....that sounds very sick. Jessa mentioned him as a teenager with hormones and a little too much curiosity about girls. Being curious about girls his age is one thing, but a five year old....that is a whole other story. I think that is why people have referenced him as a 'pedophile'. Additionally, while most people do stupid and immoral things growing up for which they are ashamed, this story just gives one the creeps, because of the 'predatory' nature. One has to wonder, where did this behavior come?

sherry said...

'Forced sexual acts' made against another person are always about power and control, not curiosity, as Jessa in ignorance, proclaims. Albeit, I am glad that they have been able to work through it and forgive Josh. I also feel empathy for Jessa and Jill and I do believe that they are experiencing re-victimization, because of the media.

I have to wonder if the 'rigid and controlling' environment brought about a sense of anger and powerlessness in Josh. What was his relationship like with his mother? Obviously, the creeping around and sexually molesting the girls when they were sleeping and most vulnerable, gave him a sense of power and control over his victims, and environment.

Mere curiosity would have manifested in a much different form, such as looking at stuff on the internet, books, magazines, or 'coming onto someone', such as 'making a pass' to engage in consensual sexual acts. I thought I heard that he got a few months of counseling, but I doubt that the counseling that he received was 'sufficient' to deal with the underlying cause of his behavior.

While I do believe God can heal and change someone, if they are willing. It usually takes some time, depending on the issue. This issue has some deep roots, and even if it doesn't manifest with him inappropriately touching his own children, I do believe that it will continue to manifest in some other form of pathology or 'bad fruit', unless he continues in counseling.

Bible Believer said...

Here is a link to the police report:

Thanks for understanding why I find the "sleeping" thing dishonest. I think that is to minimize things, no one I know would sleep through that.

It would be different if he was with another 14 year old petting and it was mutual consent, not preying on girls almost a third of his age. That is where you are entering sociopathy land and lack of conscience, where he is preying on them. I think the overly repressed atmosphere helped coupled with the parents endless displays of PDAs but there is something more here, where Josh and others had to be victims of abuse. Also the incest thing is different too.

I think the girls being so young too, have people wondering if he is still a pedophile. He was obviously sexually abused himself. That is one place none of the news seems to be asking questions about.

The fact he did this against their will-no mutual consent, the extreme age differences and the repetition of the acts, is what makes it so disturbing. I think Jessa and Jill definitely are playing damage control for parents who do not deserve it at all.

Bible Believer said...

I wonder when these girls will realize their own parents threw them under the bus for fame and money, knowing this was out there and one day it could be exposed. So they have been doubly abused by their own brother and now by the media. Even Josh was thrown under the bus because they went ahead with the fame and money knowing one day this could be exposed. Yes these are forced acts which are about power and control. I am glad they have forgiven him too though I can tell their trust of him and relationship was understandably permanently affected. I agree with you the rigid and controlling environment brought some psychological distress, yes what was his relationship with Michelle especially since he is the oldest and she focused on baby after baby. I hope he has a conscience and was able to overcome these difficulties. Yes curiosity would be different. Something else was very wrong aka the "deep roots".

sherry said...

Thank you for the link. You wonder when these girls will realize their own parents threw them under the bus....? Probably never. I listened to these girls in the interview, and I felt that they were being honest in what they think and believe, but I can not understand how any person would not wake up when there 'private parts' are touched.

Even if they are being honest in what they think and believe, that doesn't mean that 'what they think and believe is correct'.

We are looking at the situation from a more objective standpoint. Like I mentioned, Jessa's comment about Josh just being a little too curious about girls, could be 'ignorance', due to a lack of knowledge on the issue.

What I see is 'denial', and 'minimization' of the seriousness of his behavior. What comes to mind is 'COGNITIVE DISSONANCE'. They are deceived in their minds.

If you are correct that Jessa and Jill are playing damage control,then I'm gullible, and they are hypocrites, good actresses, and the situation is far more sinister than we know.....scary on all accounts.

Anonymous said...

I'm going to be the black sheep here and call fake on this one.

I don't believe it happened at all. Seems like just another huge setup to defame and mock Christians.

Even the ways the girls are speaking and using the word "victim" over and over and over again, is being deliberately done to persuade listeners into the 'sex crime' 'predator/victim' 'sexual deviant' mentality of altering our thinking and therefore our opinions in how we approach and see this. The same tactics are used in every other area where we are being deceived. Playing with words and using specific word games to bring the listener to an opinion and point of view. It's the same when they use the words 'marriage equality' or 'women's equality' to deceive and give the listener the exact point of view they want to give us.

And that's why I call fake on this one. I so clearly see the deceptive word games at play in full force.

Never mind that the stories they are telling do not seem at all credible or believable.

So I personally won't spend a second trying to pull apart the illogical stories going on either.

Make no mistake - I am NOT defending this family or the tv show in any way.

It's all been a setup.

Right now, at this point in time of prophesy, everything is about the destruction of the bride of Christ, the total destruction of Christianity forever and by every means possible is the only goal of the enemy now. And this is just another deception to put on TV a family which appears to be living a clean Christian life - and then to destroy them in shame and as sexual perverts or hypocrites in front of the world.

Just my opinion.

But each of the previous commenters, and no doubt more will follow - all so clearly see that something is very fishy with this entire story. Trust that instant perception. This is God setting off red flashing lights to us to BEWARE. That this is not real.

And no matter what conclusion each of us draws, either the show been a setup from the start to shame the family after the 'big secret' is revealed (just like all the best movies with the twist at the end that no-one saw coming), or whether the 'big secret' is really just a fake story to shame what has been previously presented to us as a wholesome Christian family - we all know there is a very big deception going on here. And we all have the Holy Spirit to thank for that guidance, as opposed to all the unsaved who just believe whatever the TV screen tells them to believe.

sherry said...

I agree with your observations. I did see it as an attack on Christianity, absolutely. Like you, I'm left wondering if it was a 'set up' to shame the family, or if the family is in on the deception, like a 'plant'. Are they legit Christians, who were set up, or false ones masquerading as Christians with this story unraveling in an attempt to destroy the image of Christianity. The matrix of games the enemy plays to mess with people's heads. I think it is best for me to just ignore what's going in the media, and focus on the Bible. Thanks for commenting.

Bible Believer said...

I don't want to offend anyone here, but perhaps too much study into deep conspiracy and mind control is influencing me here, but we know they have their pedophile circles in the highest levels of the NWO. I am even thinking of the pedophile priests and pedophile covens exposed such as the alleged teen sold to a prince. I don't even think it is coincidence that the cop who was reported to was arrested for child porn. Often sex abuse goes hand in hand with mind control. You think about the exposed sex abuse related to Gothard and in other circles, I'll admit it I am thinking the worse.

One thing I am seeing is they are setting up Christians to make allowances for pedophiles and sex abuse. It is a set up to make Christians look bad. If you think they are lying and it's all made up, it's possible. The sleeping thing sounds fishy. Maybe the real abuser was someone else, and Josh is a scapegoat and it was all arranged years ago. I definitely can see them as plants. So the posters saying this is all made up or was arranged very early on, it is very possible.

Definitely Satan is using it no matter what really went on.

Bible Believer said...

correction above, "false" Christians to make allowances.

It's like the Catholic church, all those excuses for the pervert priests, and now they will be having the Chick-fi-la crowd jumping up and down to defend a child molester just like the Catholics excused the pervert priests.

sherry said...

Bible Believer,

When I mentioned wondering if they were a 'plant' or 'false' Christians masquerading as real ones, I was thinking along the same lines that you had mentioned, 'mind control,'. I have read and tend to believe the stuff about the mkultra's, as I have seen the personality 'switches'. Maybe like you said I too have read too much conspiracy stuff, but I doubt it. I think this stuff is real, and some people have been under mind control from birth and have been programmed with different 'alters'. One alter could be a Christian, and the other a Satanist. Some have been programmed to be 'christians' and then bring in deception. The Gothard teaching and the sexual abuse scandal that came out, along with this family's link to that, AND not coming out against it after the exposure, is a HUGE red flag that they are under mind control, and being used by the other side.

Bible Believer said...

I have written before I believe they could be under mind control. I think it is real. I have shown videos in the past on this blog of people "switching" and wrote about celebrities saying they had sold their souls to Satan. With the Duggars this could be even way beyond the Gothard mind control of blanket training, with added sexual and religious-spiritual abuse, and all the way into MK Ultra. Yes "alters" are part of that picture. They are almost "too controlled" and "perfect appearing" just like the Satanic soul selling celebrities of Hollywood. Will we see some of the programming break down one day where they shave their heads and other disasters come forth? Having 19 kids where not one rebels in the regular day world is almost an impossible statistic. You learn some of the purported signs and symbols of deep conspiracy, and this is stuff I can't prove but even when they wear certain colors like bright emerald, I believe that could be part of the marking themselves. Michelle's eyes are deeply disturbing and she has the "personality switches". Yes there are those programmed to be a Christian and others. They definitely are being used by the other side. The girls are too controlled, all the children are like little puppets.

sherry said...

Bible believer,
Check out this link:

If the Duggar’s used 'blanket training’…..that is some serious child abuse. If a baby isn’t attended to correctly within the first two years of life the dendrites in the brain do not form correctly, that is how you end up with serious psychopathy….such as sociopathy. I was shocked when I read this in the article. This is definitely a cult, under the ‘guise of christianity’. Complete brainwashing from infancy. God is not about ‘control’. He gives us ‘free will’. If these family members do not break away from the cult and brainwashing, then they are in spiritual danger. I have to doubt whether there was a ‘true free will conversion/born again experience.' Reading this article explained 'why they seem so perfectly happy all the time'....a bunch of brainwashed robots.....scary and sad. The children could use our prayers.

Abigail said...

Even mainstream conservative churches misconstrue the "train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it" verse in Proverbs. I remember feeling that pastors pushed the heavy discipline like that would somehow guarantee that your children would grow up "in the club" for life. If a child ever grew and chose to turn away from Christ or flat out rejected Him, the parents must have been hypocrites or too lenient in discipline when the child was young. This was a literal teaching in many IFB churches I attended. Proverbs doesn't give us a formula to clone Christians. My understanding of the verse is to emphasize the long lasting effects of childhood training (good and bad) long into adulthood. People often don't even realize how much their parents' attitudes mold their own attitudes as adults. People that consider themselves to be very independent thinkers hold onto prejudices, fears, and values that all trace back to their home lives as children. Often they don't even realize they have these prejudices because they seem "normal" to them! Thus, childhood training tends to stick. The verse isn't about beating children into submission. I t is a caution to parents that everything they do is being recorded into the hearts of their young children for life. Godly parents give their children a tremendous blessing, but not a free ride into Heaven. Evil parents burden children with pain that can be life long and habits that,without Holy Spirit intervention, will be blindly repeated to the next generation's spiritual detriment. Never have I heard that verse as anything other than a promotional tool for harsh parenting. Many pastors that promoted such beatings would be better off wearing millstones around their necks because their words inspired innocent children to be abused in the name of Jesus. Shame on them!

Bible Believer said...

Sherry, I could see the blanket training bringing in sociopathy in some of the children. Maybe that happened to Josh? I think too he is skewed from having his mother put him aside while on her baby marathon too. I do believe they could be mind controlled or part of the MK ultra program but if we even just think of the Michael Pearl child abuse methods, that is enough to skew personalities for life. One can tell they are very controlled. I believe it is a cult. I used to lean towards the possibility of one or two of the children being saved but now I think not. The adults are too controlled, there is no leading by God. I suffered the censure and ostracization of my family for leaving the Catholic church right after I was saved. Their own family seems to be their "god" and the children idolize it as much as their narcissitic parents. Malignant Narcissism is a name psychologists give to the seared wicked, but with two parents like that who sold the children off for fame and felt no moral qualms in blanket training babies sadly some will follow in their footsteps.

Some of these pastors advocate out and out child abuse. Beat your kids into submission. I had a very very rough childhood. I don't go into details here, but I almost died and went to hell in my early 20s because parents often form a person's early view of God and I had turned my back on God completely. If anything the Tea Party, fundie police state set who teach BEAT your children into obedience are ensuring more little future atheists and pagans AND SOCIOPATHS/Malignant Narcs/Seared Reprobates because they are simply not loved. The happiness is demanded by the cult, smile so you look good to others. They are brainwashed robots, seeing the girls excuse and minimize their own abuse and speak of locked doors at night as normal, told me exactly how brainwashed they are. The pastors preaching beatings usually are hateful war mongering sorts. Funny how none of them ever teach love your children more. It's all about control.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Abigail, welcome to the blog. Yes the mainstream conservative churches focus on training but sadly it is not biblical training but I guess the way someone would train a dog. I grew up in a Catholic household, and religion there was used for abuse more often then not. I remember getting backhanded for eating a bologna sandwich on a Lenten Friday by accident. I have noticed there are a lot of budding atheists and others on ex-fundamentalist boards and well most of them were beaten and abused by control freak parents who had no love and only "dog" training in mind. The focus on breaking the child's will is sickening. Some of these false people would call me a liberal for saying children should be loved and cared about instead of having all the spirit beaten out of them. If anything the abusive parents who call themselves Christians-like the jesusland author, ensure the future rejection of Christianity because they have been given such a sick view of life by evil parents. Yes I heard the beatings must commence to keep the kids in the faith and it is a lie. I had a sincere good IFB pastor who loves his children and even the church where I just left, that one seemed very loving to his, so it is not all of them but this is poison infusing through the "Christian" world. Yes parents influence children to the extreme. I totally agree with you. Children who grow up with abuse and without any love pay a heavy heavy price. It is by God's miracle they can even be born again. There are evil wicked people who are seared and reprobate who have children. I hate how these type of pastors make the lives worse of children suffering at home. The Catholic priests weren't much better, they came from things from another angle, but a lot was based on endless punishment and guilt in the Catholic church.

SallySays said...

I would like to say that perhaps the girls are genuine. It is possible for people to forgive their abuser and move on with their lives. It has happened before and it places a stamp out on the 'victim issue'.

I have a lady at my church who forgave her brothers and father who committed incest with her up to 22 years of age. Another lady forgave her abuser and now attends church with him. You do not need to be mind control to forgive and I think that people questioning this is disrespectful to those it has happened to.

SallySays said...

I realised that I may have sound harsh in my last post. What I meant to say is that an abused person is entitled to say that they forgave the person and to see this as the persons 'mistake' or 'error' without being accused of not taking what has happened to them seriously. There are some of us who do not want to carry the label of 'victim' forever. I mean what would it do to the body of the christ if we just kept on carrying misdeeds around with us all the time.

Don't get me wrong. I am certainly not minimizing what Josh did, but I would have more forgiveness for a 14 year old boy then a grown adult male who is not as confused as a 14 year old adolescent boy.

I started of by supporting the Duggars and their endeavours. I really liked their message and the lifestyle they led. Now I am starting to notice cracks in that. So what brought this to my attention, other strong fundermentalist christians condemning their lifestyle perhaps and maybe one thing - one of the girls, Jill mentioned in the interview that NOBODY has touched upon. - That is, 3 in 4 families have had the same problem in their families too. Now who is she refering too? since these people mainly socialise with others like themselves, does she mean those of the lifestyle like themselves. This is shocking because I thought that the whole idea of living this idea was to protect the purity of children.

Now people here are commenting about the Duggars being used to destroy christians, but what about the Bates?. There has been no scandals connected to them and they seem to be more wholesome.

Bible Believer said...

Their forgiveness could be real. I suppose we are referring to some deep conspiracy possibilities within this family. You do bring up a good point how one mentions several other families with this problem. That is pretty serious if incest problems and sex abuse are common among Quiverful families. I have read where some wrote mere curiosity in a young man would have led perhaps to reading dirty books and porn magazines but going to outright molestation is way beyond the curiosity that may occur from a repressive and extreme childhood. Have any of you read FLDS books of people who came out of that system? Sex abuse and molestation was rampant. I can't even write what Warren Jeffs was guilty of, and in jail for now it was so sick and defiled. Coercive, totalitarianism religious systems often have sex abuse related to them and I don't think Quiverful/ATI is too far off the FLDS ranch with the extreme control of women, young girls and the "patriarchs" having so much power even over young men.

One thing I do believe there are people who are so wicked, we are not called by God to "forgive" them as they have not repented. Luke 17:3 We can pray for those who are not seared that they DO repent one day but this idea of forgiving the unrepentant wicked is false. We are called to depart from the wicked and the reprobate and those with seared consciences. I do not know Josh enough to know if his repentance or saying he was sorry to his sister was sincere. I hope he is not seared or a what the psychologists would call a sociopath. I do still think he was most likely abused himself.

I do believe many who have been abused are told to forgive abusers that often have no conscience and are seared and they put themselves in the place to be reoffended against. I believe if a man is committing incest against his own daughter, his conscience has been seared to total blackness in most cases.