Saturday, June 13, 2015

Another Failure With Christian Fellowship

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I made another attempt to find Christian fellowship and it has failed.

 I visited this one church for a short time that was a "fundamentalist" -KJV using very small church, but as I found out it was caught in the same matrix I warn about on this blog. I don't expect perfection, but as things added up I got worried. It is always a disappointment. Why is there so much complete and utter SAMENESS?

 So there is no choice but to clear out. It just is not going to work. Unless I move, I have exhausted all spiritual avenues, and yes I have looked for house churches too. I will spend time reading the Bible and in prayer on my own.

Do any of you here tire of the mainstream Christian world? Honestly the whole show-time of it all if I did not have firm roots in the faith, they would have been ripped out. I know some who have entered the church world and left Christianity all together based on what they experienced. The religion world can be a nightmare.

Some of my readers may be okay in the independent KJV or IFB world or other independents but it's not working for me. My one good IFB from years ago I was able to talk to others about what I believed and warn of things. I could be "me", this new place that wasn't so true. I know no church situation is perfect but there is a point where the errors are so deep, you have to depart especially if you feel things have stayed so superficial all you can talk about is the weather even after multiple visits. Pretrib Rapture? Celebration of Christmas with some church members? Christian Zionism--that one wasn't so apparent at first but came to light later. Am I being too picky? I don't think so. Even the independent fundamentalist churches have become like McDonalds in their utter sameness among the small and large.

I saw some NWO expose board that posted "Get a new pastor if he is not New World Order aware" and it made me laugh. I would pass out if I ever met a church pastor, who was New World Order aware or dared to say it. With one old pastor, I was able to wake him up to a "few things" but he still supports Ted Cruz. Of course knowing every conspiracy doesn't make one saved and a bunch of those people exposing could be disinfo, but you wonder when you see so few that break from the mold. There is this picture of the American Christian, they all want to match. Cultural precepts that have little and nothing to do with scripture. The Duggars were just some of the toxic candy coating on a world that expects complete conformity.

I even told this pastor I believed in the new world order and he didn't flinch, and thought I got one who was more spiritually aware but I was wrong. He even told me the Pope is the Vicar of hell and we know that is rare alone.. Some of his sermons were pretty good, he was against the ecumenical movement and other things he was on spot but the praises for Ronald Reagan and veterans fighting for "our freedom" in the Middle East, made it clear things were pretty off.  At least in this church they avoided the displays of jet planes but they spoke of the Middle Eastern wars in a positive way even though members of the church had been over there as soldiers, they still haven't woken up, and that worries me.

When I told him of the NWO, he may have simply been smiled and nodded probably thinking inside "What a nut"! It's weird even Facebook is splattered in NWO exposing pages, [yes some are probably disinfo], and there are websites all over the place exposing the nitty-gritty, these people must all live under a rock, spouting off the Bush-era lies and Republican party brainwashing. Should I tell him and others why I am leaving?

I am going to have to accept, I'm really out there on my own save for God and a few others who have left the church system completely. I'll walk with Jesus Christ, and well as people try to falsely guilt me into forsaking assembly, I have to follow Him and my conscience. They don't know how I have wrestled with these issues for years.

 The so called "proper" people aren't ready to embrace someone who is truly independent thinking into their circles. Money runs a lot of these showtimes too and if you don't have enough, then you know how that goes. One can almost tell which families are donating the most to the church. That's not the way it should work. If a church does nothing for the poor, or doesn't ever meet together for open discussions that aren't pastor directed something is wrong. Further into my visits there was more discussions of tithing and more. I am even considering moving because I live in an very affluent area next to a very impoverished dangerous area and the community just doesn't seem right for me. So please pray for me in making the right decisions.

 Sometimes you talk yourself into thinking that you can be a voice of truth or even help others, but you also realize there's so much to wade through. There is a world of Christianity out there, that is making me ill. Certainly after years of writing this blog, some of you know what I am talking about. I'm not a perfect Christian either, and my loneliness in Christian fellowship, outside the Internet, has been a very hard thing to take. I hope this doesn't sound mean but in the churches I feel like I meet a succession of pod people who have had easy lives and believe the same things and who I horrify every time I open my mouth. They seem utterly conformist. In fact one thing non-believers say to me, is how "Christians" seem to resemble pod people and what can I say to argue with them?

I feel like a lot of people out there are more interested in "appearing good" and that is what religion has become. I have lost friends for my beliefs. One kept pressuring me to attend her Lutheran church and I finally said, that is never going to happen.  Even mild beliefs, have had people turn and walk. I wasn't rude and heard people out but I am paying for not conforming. I want real people around me not narcissists using religion to appear more "holy" and "better then others". God help me if I ever become one of those people spouting off a whole bunch of list of rules expecting everyone have a white picket fence lifestyle to be acceptable.

 Yes I will admit I got lonely and thought that having no Christians around me on a local basis may be a bad idea. Being sick not having anyone to pray with you is not a good thing.  Some women in the area, kept telling me that being the lone on my own Christian was a path to spiritual destruction. One local lady I am no longer friends with, got outraged by my beliefs, that she sought to censor. With that one I didn't lay on any of the thick and heavy stuff, but beginning introduction things, only to be told not to talk about it anymore.

Outside of the Calvary Chapel I attended for a short time and left, I have been looking at 8 and half years without any formal or informal Christian fellowship in real life and I made this other attempt that failed. I went on a 60 mile round trip to find one church. I googled home fellowships online and found only an SDA and Hebrew Roots offshoot. This has been tough. I am praying to God about what to do. I feel I have to obey Him and clear out. Be careful out there. I know probably others reading here have been down this road too. The entire church system in my opinion has gone rotten. Perhaps some of you have found a gem here and there, but I know I don't belong and don't fit where I am at.

I had one person tell me, "People go to church all the time and don't agree with the pastor or what the church teaches and they told me "I am 'too rigid' and  'isolating" myself", but I can't sit in some place where I can't even talk about anything and I am told things I know are WRONG.

More Discussion Regarding Those Without A "Church".


Anonymous said...

I am sorry this has happened to you again, I am praying for you. My wife and I have each other and Jesus. It is hard and lonely as it has been this way for us for almost a decade. I think we get stripped down to the bare essential, Jesus Christ. We must learn to be content. My few friends and extended family think we are strange and that hurts. In the end the only true fellowship is between yourself and Jesus. I am praying for your husband too. Matthew 11:28-30 - Don

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Don. Thanks for your prayers too. I will pray for you. It sounds like you have gone almost as long as I have. Thanks for praying for my husband. Yes friends think I am strange and I have almost no family left in leaving their church--long story. Working on contentment too. Agree that it is about one's relationship with Jesus Christ, that is true fellowship.

Michael Sean said...

I have been a Christian for almost three year and have never been to church. I was brought up Catholic and turned atheist at 21 years old, and happily continued down that path for seven or eight years until I came into contact with Santaria when I spent a few months in Cuba, and had what can only be described as an "incident". Something weird stirred in me and I moved to agnosticism, with a leaning towards the new age. I got saved on the day my brother died on 11/09/2012 (which in the US way of dating is 09/11/12 of all days).

My Christianity has been a solo journey. I have no Christian friends and my family are cultural Catholic or agnostic at best. I have no problems with Catholics. I even believe the genuine ones are saved. I don't believe the Pope is Hell's vicar or any such thing. I certainly do not take any notice of him. I also take no notice of female vicars and Bishops (particularly the ones who are now calling for the right to refer to God as a woman), or lesbian and gay vicars/pastors. I believe that homosexuality is another sin among all sins and that we should not rank sins, but certainly not allow people to glorify in their sin as a Crowlian freedom unchallenged. I have a niece who is gay and she is one of the nicest, most thoughtful people I know. She is also celibate.

One of the problems I that I find is that a lot of the things I read from fellow Christians is pro Israel and right wing, neither of which I am. I like to read from all kinds of Christian writings; Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Evangelical, etc...

I have absolutely no views on whether fallen angels or rebellious heavenly hosts mated with the daughters of men or not. I have read both sides with interest but I do not see it as pivotal to my salvation in any way what so ever. I certainly do not see anything biblical in nephilim nonsense that is often spouted by Tom Horn and his ilk. Giants are not coming to get us. I do not believe in pre tribulation rapture, but have no problem with those who do.

I am not a strictly KJV only guy. For a start I'm dyslexic and have real problems with the "ye old English". The first time I read the Bible was the KJV and I really struggled. I use an ESV these days. I find it easier to understand. I'm not an all or nothing fundamentalist in terms of the Bible. I feel this is where people like Bart Ehrman have gone utterly wrong. The Bible is endlessly fascinating and for modern eyes it can be a strange thing to grasp.

I was once extremely vocal in my belief that Christianity and religion in general was a joke. My friends cannot believe I have found Christ. It's kind of telling that God has found it in his heart to save a sinner like me who lives among a nest of atheists and sinners. I'm beginning to think he wants to use my big mouth for other things.

Hopefully the Lord will one day introduce you to the Church and fellowship you have been seeking.

In Christ,
Michael Sean

Anonymous said...

I am totally in your shoes. We left our IFB church 2 years ago, and have been churchless ever since. I wanted to leave for years and finally convinced my husband.
We are currently going to a church that is far more liberal than I want, a non-denominational church where the pastor believes drinking is ok, etc. That is how desperate I am to connect with other Christians. You see, we have absolutely no friends or family, and have been that way for many years. It is starting to bother me. I never thought I needed "friends" but lately I have felt the need to connect with others more as I feel isolated. We have 2 children, and we need to bring them up in church. So what are we to do? I simply cannot go to the legalistic Baptist churches I have visited. One Sunday, we visited an IFB church, and when the preacher mentioned spanking his kids "a lot, daily", there were so many Amens and it sickened me. I know they wouldnt be so quick to say amen if someone pointed out their greed, pride, lying, lustful thoughts, etc. I simply cannot attend a Pharisee church.
Now my only alternative is a church that is not Pharisee-like at all, the pastor is very down to earth, he doesn't act like something he is not, but yeah, he drinks. I hate it, but otherwise, I will not go to church at all.
The Bible does say to forsake not the assembling together. And no, we will not find the perfect church. What are we to do, Lord?
On the other hand, I don't think you necessarily need to bring up NWO topics with every pastor. Just because they don't believe the same way you do on everything, maybe ask yourself, is he trying to preach the gospel, or his own opinions? And just pray about it. But who am I to give advise? I am just as "homeless" as you. What do we do?

Anonymous said...

I forgot to mention that this preacher who was talking about spanking his kids a lot/daily, went on to say that his word was "the law" in their home, and that it was not a democracy, but a dictatorship! He pridefully went on to explain that this constant discipline was primarily with his adopted children, and that his own children were so good and obedient and grew up to turn out so well, serve God, etc...while the adopted kids did not turn out so well. He never once gave God the glory. I simply have no other choices for churches! It is either the Pharisees or the liberals.

Anonymous said...

Hi BB, I do like that you've added some extra thoughts and commentary on this post. I do also feel need to ask what conversations you are starting that are offending these people? Just curious, as I am sure others may be too, of what you are approaching first with them that makes them turn away so quickly.

I also have no fellowship. Not one person. Nor do I ever expect any fellowship at all. It is just me and my little boy of 11, alone. We stand alone on a lily pad in an ocean of dirty and polluted waters. Unable to even see another survivor close by because of the fog that envelopes everything that surrounds us. We are strangers in our land.

I have researched churches too. I am so hungry for fellowship, baptism and communion. My heart aches every day in this loneliness. I worry for my boy for his future.

I have found no church, there is no fellowship anywhere anymore. Whatever words the last few of us are allowed to speak online now, will soon be silenced too. As I research churches I see things on their websites which are an abomination and an affront to God. I see statements like "Why Jesus?" followed by some reason why he shared love and peace in the world... there is no Gospel, no truth, no Word, only good feelings for the lost who are drowning... oh... and support the country that calls itself Israel and the rapture is coming soon !!

I too know that if I ever got past the page on a website to actually visit a church - that I would need to ask my own questions very quickly to determine if they were truly Christ and Gospel centred, to determine if I could continue to assemble with them. This is the reason I ask my first question of what your queries were, because I too have my own queries, and some insight and sharing of thoughts and ways to approach a church and to evaluate them - would be truly helpful.

I am afraid though, that your search, Don's search, and my search, will all be in vain. For now. We are the last remnant of sheep, wandering alone, our flock has been completely decimated by wolves, and now the wolves are searching out the last remaining sheep who saw the wolves and ran off on their own at the call of their Master.

Our only hope to be saved of the wolves now is our Shepherd. He is the only one who can protect us and save us.

And while we may be wandering the wilderness alone, we are each still protected by our Shepherd. The wolves may bite at us, but we recover quickly and we are never mortally wounded. We may feel faint from hunger, but our Shepherd feeds us. We worry of where we may sleep the next night, but our Shepherd shelters us. And when we go astray, our Shepherd's rod and staff comforts us back into His safety. We worry for the wolves, but, we know, we know He is there, looking after us.

I see this time as God pruning His vine. Removing the dead wood so that the lively may flourish. It is a difficult time, of which I am not immune to the sorrow and heartache and the bitings of wolves, and it will get so much worse, but in the end we become His Bride. What else is there? He made us a promise in covenant, sealed in the Blood of His Only Son, He gave us prophesy how He would prune His vine, and our God is fulfilling His promise. This is that time. Praise God.

TruthVigilantee said...

"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together" does not translate into
"go ye down the block to that theater of parodies" where nothing even remotely resembles Christianity. That is not fellowship. The auditorium with the dog and pony show does not make it fellowship any more than does meeting outside with a bunch of hypocrites in love with the world. Fellowship consists of meeting with other saved people, no matter where. If they don't appear to be saved, you are wasting your time and even endangering yourself. The bible says not to even fellowship with one who calls himself a brother and carries on in drunkenness.
"But I now have written unto you not to keep company with any man who is called a brother if he is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. With such a one you are not even to eat." 1 Cor. 5; 11
The churches these days wink at sin and outright condone it now. We must leave that.

A note for Michael:
Praise God that you are saved, I am so glad to hear that! : D
Continue to read the bible and pray and He will lead you into all truth. Some things take time. There is a site called Soul Refuge that helps us guard against certain traps. Just keep seeking God and you will grow.
Love and God's blessings to you!

Abigail said...

OK so I've been reading your blog every day for several months now and was praying that God would show me when and whether to comment. I'm not computer savvy at all and have NEVER commented online to anything but today I knew I had to come out of the shadows. You have helped me so much! I too have desperately tried to find fellowship for myself and my children and have come up empty every time. Reading your story today was like reading my own thoughts and experiences. I have begged God for over 10 years to give us a Bible believing fellowship in any form. We have moved several times over the years but the story is always the same. Every church minimizes truth and follows the wide path of the world. I originally discovered your blog one night when in tears over my IFB family's rejection of me and my adult children. Extremely painful to realize that their Christianity was a sham, and that their love for me was dependent on my feeding their fake facade. When you call out false Christians like the Duggars, it is so comforting to hear! Accommodating false teaching and narcissistic phonies and self-obsessed victim types is kind to no one and is discouraging to those like my daughters and myself who bear our crosses every day while the world (including "Christians") looks at us as if we are losers and fools. Thank you for saying the truth like Paul did. Thank you for calling out false teachers by name like Paul did. By doing so , you are not just warning those who might be fooled. You are also giving hope to others who see the lies but feel completely alone in the truth. It feels so wonderful to express myself to you after months of reading all your and your readers' thoughts. (Joy, we especially share much in common and I love to read your comments) One suggestion: would you be able to somehow make a list or index of new comments as they are added? I have no idea how any of this stuff works online but I have noticed that comments on older entries are hard to find and sometimes go unanswered. I gain so much from people's responses to your blog and think people would comment more if they knew that they could reference stuff from years ago without being overlooked--hey, it's new to some of us who just found you!

Bible Believer said...

Hi Michael, Praise God you were saved, I understand you not being in a church, one newly saved person asked me, "Where do I go to church?" and at the time I was stumped. I got them started on some bible studying and reading. What else could I do. I am ex Catholic too which you may know if you have read this blog long enough. I agree homosexuality is one sin among many, and have posted against this sin being called out in the apostate churches constantly while ignoring others. As for saved Catholics, I believe one is called out of there when born again but have known some who got saved and felt afraid to leave--I pray they obey God. There may be simple people in a different spiritual place as well.

I have warned against the false left wing and the RIGHT wing. The right wing of the NWO is deceiving many. As I have written I am very low income, in America the poor are scum to the right wing and they have influenced the churches to go like wise.

I do not agree with Nephilim but know some sincere folks believe in it. I have warned here how I knew those teachings during my years in the occult. When I see things that showed up in my UU Theosophy books years later in the Christian world I am wary and have warned.

I understand you going with other Bibles regarding dsyslexia, just please be cautious, they do change them. [research bible versions but realize they have the disinfo crowd in the KJV Only world--avoid Ruckman]

I too was very anti-Christian during my UU years. No one believed it when I got saved. I do not fit into the Christian cultural world at all.
Hopefully the Lord will one day introduce you to the Church and fellowship you have been seeking. I hope God can use you for other things too. Big mouth or not. :) I must have a big mouth to even have a blog like this LOL

God bless.

Bible Believer said...

Hi I understand you leaving the IFB church anon. It is tough out there. I just sent an email to a nice lady I met in the last church I am leaving. I had to use her language in trying to tell her my beliefs differed too much. Hopefully I did so without offending. A more liberal church won't work for me, but I even had the thought at least in a more liberal place there'd be more open fellowship. Sad isn't it so I exactly see what you mean between choosing the pod people [conservative, Phariseeical] vs. the liberal churches. Some Lutherans in town have been sweet as pie to me but do you see me going back to sacraments and those false teachings? no way.

I worry because I feel like I cannot connect to other Christians, outside the internet where they are like me and have left the church system. Even there if someone is homechurching it doesn't mean they've stayed on the reservation--one has to be wary of legalists, and other cults like the SDA homechurch I found.

I feel like some of the churches have almost become parodies of themselves. Gung-ho republicans, tough on everything, war on everything, they are more about the debris of American culture more then anything in the Bible. Yes the guy boasting about spanking his child hard, would sicken me too. Police state and youth totalitarianism being promoted in the churches. Along with all the war mongering they teach beat the children. I wrote this older article in outrage...

They never would read this verse in one of those places.

Ephesians 6:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

It's not working for me. I don't fit in. Class-wise, independent thinking wise, being hateful of wars for the NWO, etc.

I understand you being worried about the pastor who drinks. Is he an alcoholic or is this recreational beers and wines? I would pray about that. I could handle someone with an occasional cold beer, I am less legalistic on alcohol but believe if someone is drinking to go into drunkenness that it is sin.

I don't expect 100%, trust me this far in. I know no human is perfect. Most of them I never would bring up the NWO too or it would be far into the relationship like in my good IFB. I got him to see a few things even if he sticks to some far right politicians. I even went into this place, thinking if they preach the gospel and be saved and stick to KJV and a few basics, I will be okay but the small things seemed to build up and build up. The Memorial Day thing bothered me big time. I even question myself, "Am I being too picky?" You have to know that.

You know one question I am asking recently is why I never meet anyone who is outside the right/left Babylon matrix IRL, I meet plenty online, but just the same over and over out in the world. Anyone else feel this way? Maybe people keep their mouths shut and feel freer to share online. Part of me felt sinful annoyance thinking there wasn't even one libertarian type to tell the last pastor here the wars were a lie and a joke?

You know too I have the burden of not wanting to be a hypocrite sitting in a church singing the praises of Christian Zionism and things I have warned about here. That came up later and I thought here too. I am asking God, "Why so few Lord?" The little things kept adding up. :(

Bible Believer said...

I go slow, anon. The person I offended I mention here, is a friend I had for 5 years. She was conservative Lutheran I witnessed to her too. She told me she was born again but I worried, she was clinging to too many false church teachings. I told her what I believed about 911 3 years into the relationship, "I don't want to hear about this". I told her my beliefs about the Eucharist and sacramentalism, "We aren't going to agree on this." I started offending here even more just things I would say about the world becoming wicked, or about the bible, what one would consider "light" things. I live in rich community where there is less openness and more emphasis on being "proper" and I have faced some major major classism here. Ironically in the rural town I could talk more freely, that is strange isn't it? One of the last times I saw her, she told me politicians were GOOD people and I was too suspicious of our world leaders. Maybe I complained about Obama or said something about TPP.

With this church I kept things cool, I thought God would give me the green light to be able to talk about some things, but then later I had the thought "What can they teach me when they are stuck in the delusions?". One friend told me, you should show them but I noticed informal conversation wasn't a common thing, fellowship was rare, there were the three services a week and very few dinners or informal get togethers that were spontaneous so I never had much of a chance. I never got beyond talking about the weather and surface politeness. I felt pressure to appear as a certain way, does this make sense? Some of you may understand what I am speaking of.

I have friends but the majority are long distance, I do not have a family except a few very far away people I have not seen in years. I had to depart from others--very long story. I feel for you anon having no fellowship. I have my husband. I am glad you have your son. I feel adrift on the lily pad too. One thing worries me, is I have these unsaved people in my life that seem to treat me far better then the pod "Christians". I don't want be led into the world because of this. These are the unsaved who can handle someone preaching Christianity to them and not walk. Those who would walk already have.

I have visited so many churches and it's odd how much alike they are all in some ways. The fellowship is disappearing and I am realizing how completely RARE of a deal I got in that other IFB, the good one. We aren't as poor then but I was already sick and we didn't fit the norm, but we were helped and treated like humans. There wasn't that focus on appearances. If that church was still open and had not closed, I'd pack up and move back. Not saying it was perfect but there was something there, I miss.

I think there is silencing happening in the churches. Will I find an independent bible study? I think we will be silenced online, already they got the controllers diverting conversation in so many places. I am sorry you could not find a church either anon.

Bible Believer said...

Yes I see the same on the websites, and heard the same here in this church. Rapture coming, Israel, Israel...etc

As I learned in this case, even if you come out and take the risk of sharing some more what they consider "extreme beliefs", it still isn't a save-all screening method. They will smile at you and probably think they can steer you away from "negative" thoughts or "conspiracy" thinking. There is so much conformity in the church world.

I agree about us being scattered sheep. You know I couldn't just sit there. As with the other places, I would want to smack my forehead and say Not again but how can you ignore the promptings of God or where you wish you could shout from a pew and say that is wrong!

I agree the Shepherd is leading us. He will provide for us. We don't have to sit in a building to be a Christian with one man preaching at us.

We may be lonely and miss the fellowship but there is no other choice. Agree about the pruning of the vine. if we are alive for the time of the "great delusion" regarding the Antichrist, you have to know the churches will be lining right up. We see those who are deluded already.

John 10:14-18 King James Version (KJV) 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Bible Believer said...

Theatre of parodies describes it. I had a church Christian the other day saying I was sinning to leave the churches but that is nothing new. I agree fellowship is meeting and talking with other saved people. I agree if the pastor gets drunk, there are biblical rules, anon above, to depart. I should have wrote that above too. If he drinks cold beer and no drunkenness, that is different then being a substance abuser and drunkard.

Bible Believer said...

Abigail, welcome to the blog and thanks for commenting :)

I am glad I have been able to help and sad you are facing the fellowship issues too in finding a church or place to go. So sorry your IFB family rejected you. I was rejected by a Catholic family for leaving--other issues there too, but I know that can be very hard. I hope your adult children are supportive of you. Yes the pod-people world of the Duggars. Stepford Christians. One thing I notice is a lot of sweet talk, certain styles of dresses and worries about appearances. People do not feel they cannot be themselves. We know the Duggars have helped add to this vision of "Christianity". There is growing conformity in the dress, political opinions and more. Even culturally I do not fit in! Why doesn't anyone question the preachers? The charismatic and narcissists are the most popular in the church world. Yes they call people who do not look the same or think the same as fools and losers. Sometimes not one rude thing can be said, but you feel that sinking feeling like you are an interloper in the room, you know you do not "fit". No one was rude to me at this church but it was more a feeling in the air. I had the feeling except with one lady if I opened my mouth I was going to be in trouble. I am sorry you are facing the same things and will pray.

I could look into putting up a comments index. I think we can add one on BlogSpot. Thanks for the suggestion.

Alex said...

Hi, I am from Australia, where I believe the churches are in a similar state. We left a WOF church three years ago. We joined a baptist church which isn't too legalistic I think the baptist churches in Australia are different to the ones in the US. We've had a great pastor who was spirit-filled which made a huge difference but it stirred up a lot more of trouble with people who were legalistic. I've felt to stay in the this church as the Lord leads because it has forced me to grow, humble myself and to trust Him. We've had to be patient with the people who are slow to change but the Holy Spirit is really beginning to change people's hearts. There's an over-emphasis on emergent stuff with our current pastor but I'm hoping he will have his eyes opened to the truth. I know its difficult to fellowship with other Christians who are not able to see a bigger picture than their small world-view. Fear is what holds my people back from digging or seeking the truth. I think we need to be more patient with the people that the Lord brings across our paths to disciple them and share with them only what they're ready to accept in season. The Lord reminded me that Jesus washed Judas' feet knowing that he would betray him. I think that sometimes we have to put up with difficult people to develop humility in us. I will stay in the this church as long as the Holy Spirit directs. Blessings 😊

Anonymous said...

BB, the Holy Spirit led me right out of the church(SBC)system last year. I know all too well the feeling of "you know you do not "fit." Guess what? My husband received the gift of salvation AFTER we left the church system. Praise God!!!!! Some at church told me he was a hard nut to crack! Apparently not too hard for our Lord and Savior. I do not look back with any regret, and in fact, thank the Lord for His protection. Many churches are becoming part of the new emergent church system (NAR, Dominionism, etc;) and many others are heading towards ecumenicalism (purpose driven on their way to Rome) and woe to those churches who filed as a 501c3. The proverbial hen is coming home to roost with government accountability. I too do not have another church to consider attending in my area, so I defer solely to the Holy Spirit for his teaching, instruction, guidance and revealing of His truth. And this brings me such peace!!!!! Yes, I miss the fellowship, but frankly those at church felt more like acquaintances and that was not my choice - you were either part of the "in group" or you were out. My husband and I fellowship together now...and this by far is the sweetest fellowship! BB, continue to pray for and be a witness to your husband. He is watching you. It is all in God's timing and for His purpose. My husband is a perfect example...I never gave up on him and neither did Christ Jesus. God Bless!

Bible Believer said...

Alex, yes I am sure the churches there would be different. Sometimes God may want us to be in a certain place, it makes a difference if there is true fellowship and if you can share your opinions and iron sharpen iron with fellow Christians who are born again but perhaps needing more study. That makes for a different situation. I was in a good IFB but had the level of communication to stay in that church. It is now closed. I agree people can be fearful and there are those one can even take the time to show things, though you have to let God lead you on what to say, when and how. I know I have made my errors. Yes let God lead on you being there. I pray you can lead into truth with the Emergent movement and other things and these are people who will listen.

Bible Believer said...

HI Anon, thanks for saying you understand that feeling of "not fitting". Praise God your husband was saved after you left the church system. My husband did go to church with me but told me he was worried about a few things. I know he and I can discuss things which is a step in the right direction. By the way he reads this blog. LOL Outside of finding a bible study, I have reach the end of the road on the churches too and will have to pray to God and let the Holy Spirit lead. Your story is a blessing to me regarding your husband and gives me more hope. Thanks. :)

Anonymous said...

He doesn't condone getting drunk. He just doesn't have a problem with alcohol. But I do. I don't like any drinking at all. Yet every church we visit, I disagree with in some way, and/or are not open to fellowship. One church we visited, we went for several weeks, and I finally "gave up," after being told by a couple members that the pastor purposely does not announce things. He runs the church like some kind of elite club that only a few can get in on. It was just Sunday morning, and leave. The bulletin said stuff about borrowing chairs instead of inviting people to meetings throughout the week. And he literally read his sermons word for word from a print out. Rarely did he inject an extra thought here and there. Then there was the old and dead church. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but they were very set in their ways and there was no fire. It is slim-pickins and I don't know of a passage in the Bible that tells us what to do in that case.

Anonymous said...

Over 50 years ago I remember a few times it was just our immediate family in church of a Sunday morning. My dad and mom were Missionaries on an Indian Reservation. My dad still preached the message as though there were a 100 people in attendance. My dad is an evangelist, he preaches the Cross and that it is only by the shed blood of Jesus that can save you from a life of sin and eternal separation from God. Even though it was only our family in attendance on those Sundays we were still an Assembly. All of us were a part of the Body of Christ, the Assembly of the First Born (reference Hebrews 12:23).

So when a person tells you that you are sinning by not attending “their idea of church”, you tell them they need to re-read and study their Bible again, giving this verse in “Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them”. Jesus said this, not me. Beside this, if the person speaking to you about attending church were truly studying their Bible they would not be saying that you are sinning.

Here are some links to help with Bible study: A Bible program for your computer, you can also download the old standard commentaries. It is free. A five year Bible study by Dr. J. Vernon McGee. You can download the audio files and study notes for free.

The road to righteousness is narrow, rough and it may look dark, but “Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. Psalms 119:105”

May God bless you all.


William Sculley said...

The sameness is a result of the lack of any firm foundation to prevent acculturation. Because they have been taught that Christianity is an ideology that you must understand, and not a life to be lived, it will always be that way. The only solution is to return to the First Church, that which was established by Christ. It does exist, for God promised it does. But because it requires that man conform to Christ and His Church, rather than conforming to man, it isn't exactly popular. Narrow is the path and few that find it, which leads to salvation. Only the denial of hatred, of judgmentalism, of self-righteousness, and self-proclaimed perfection that is so central to Fundamentalism can one be truly saved.

Anonymous said...

I left the church for good several months ago. I liked the pastor but I have been awakened to the reality that lies out way the truth and I can't stomach it anymore. It feels like being in a wilderness and does not feel good but then I say to myself."well, what if I really was in a wilderness...I would never be alone because God would be my constant that brings me joy! God my constant companion.

Anonymous said...

God may be setting apart a remnant of His people that have not been deceived. It states in Daniel that those who are wise will instruct many. We are listening to our Shepherd without all the influences of the man-made religious system. We can hear Him clearer and know His voice. When we hear a false shepherd it makes us want to warn the people. We are able to see what is taking place in the world around us while churches engage in their false teachings, programs and social club groups. They are lulled to sleep until they don't want to be woken up. The Pharisees hated Jesus for this reason; He wanted to wake them up but they refused to the point of wanting Him killed. He called them blind white washed tombs. The Lord instructed His disciples to wipe the dust off their feet if they were not received and not to cast our pearls before swine. Let those who have ears, let them hear and eyes that see, may they see. God will instruct us in how to pray, how to share the Gospel, how to reach the lost. We must trust God's Holy Spirit to do His work and lead us where He wants us to minister.

Anonymous said...

Truth Vigilante, thanks for those verses about drunkenness. I will have to really consider what to do going forward. He may not be a "drunk" but he does like alcohol, and I think honestly that you can't distinguish the two. No one can say they would never get drunk. I have seen people who thought they had control, but didn't. It is so difficult to know what to do.

Terry Yamin said...

I have never commented on this blog before but have frequented it for years. The only other place where I have had some of my comments posted was on the Ephesians5:11 blog before it became Evil-World News. Part of why I don't comment on blogs is because I can get bogged down trying to express everything I want to say and feeling that I can never express myself eloquently or adequately enough. I have to say this post really resonated with me specially today because an acquaintance from years ago asked me in confidence if I knew of a good "church" where she could attend only to apologize and tell her that since my last bout with the pastor of the church where I went, had to call it quits on organized Christianity. I even had to call it quits on a home fellowship because I was becoming a problem with my views (a lot of it revolving around similar subjects discussed on this blog) even though there were a couple of people that felt that what I had to say had value. It gets lonely, I feel badly for my family because I sometimes feel I'm robbing them of something. I'm far from perfect but wish I could fellowship with other brothers and sisters in the faith. Please pray for me, my wife and kid, I will pray for you Bible Believer and don't give up on this blog because along with Mr. Saunders' blog, has helped me keep my sanity in knowing that I'm not the only one who sees these problems and not alone... Terry

Anonymous said...

Yes I too believe God is calling His children out from among the goats at this time. This is indeed God at work.

As the devil takes control of all the churches, there can be no place for His flock in them anymore.

Just be careful though, there are a growing number of false teachers and shills sent to deceive us as well. The devil knows we cannot and will not eat at his table, so he brings the poison to us in the form of charlatans who also speak truth of the fall and corruption of modern day churchianity - until these people also start dosing us with the same rat poison.

Just like he sends the KJV only shills to deceive us - he also sends the anti-church shills to do the same.

He doesn't want one true Christian left behind... so to speak. Remember that we are his primary target.

We all must be careful in these times, and pray always for discernment from the Spirit of God.

The flock is indeed thinning rapidly. Soon there will be but the smallest remnant remaining.

Bible Believer said...

I am glad the pastor does not get drunk. I don't like the drinking either too so understand where you are coming from. The other churches where they keep secret information for some too is wrong, that is things being run like a clique. I saw some old and dead churches including one even that had something like 6 members. It was held in an old church building not a home fellowship.

Bible Believer said...

I am glad your Dad kept preaching the truth even with only a few people there. The tickled ears crowd must have gone elsewhere. I agree that is an assembly. Praise God for his missionary work. The Indians need the truth. I have this "pagan" Catholic priest relative who is a cousin of my mother, praying to the "great spirit" and "four winds", so I am glad there is someone out there bringing truth to Native Americans.

Yes I remember quoting them Matt 18:20. While their church in a different area does some outreach, it is one of those ecumenical denominations. Some people get offended when you do not want to visit their church services.

Thanks Joel for the bible study links too.

William, even the bible says you must believe. This doesn't mean you have to pass a theology test to enter heaven. I believe there are more simple people in some of the churches even who are saved, but we are responsible for what we know and what God shows us.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Of course I do not believe the Orthodox church is the first church, no way no how.

You are right about the legalism within fundamentalist circles. Some of it disturbs me and well, appearing perfect and following endless rules isn't going to get one to heaven either--like the Duggars. That said the mystical mumbo-jumbo of liturgical churches and sacramentalism is a steering away off into the pit too.

Bible Believer said...

I couldn't stomach it anymore either. What gets me is there is so little discussion. They listen to the man at the front of the room and not much else is said. I don't even like how bible studies are run now in most places where it seems it is just the pastor doing another sermon but with work sheets, but no one adds comments, questions or their own ideas. Yes we have God as our companion. He is instructing us. I can't ignore what God has shown me and others. It sometimes hurts, you wonder how alone you will be. It has made me question myself at times. Please pray for me my readers. I even lost most of the family via my faith. I have been ostracized for years and even lost a 5 year old friendship from faith issues, and wicked people being involved. I do at times fear I will end totally alone as far as humans are concerned. I have not had an easy life, but then I try and remember everyone who has stood up for God and truth isn't exactly loved by this world.

At least my husband who I pray to be born again, was understanding about the church leaving. He told me he thought the pastor asked for money too often. LOL We do want to warn when we hear a false Shepherd. One church member I said goodbye to told me the pastor may come talk to me, she told him why I left. LOL that may be an interesting conversation but part of me thinks too it is never going to happen. I know there I have to be cautious as well.

I see the churches as lulled to sleep. Minds closed down. Members can't talk about anything. Everything very "proper" and "controlled". Little spontaneous conversation. The appearances of "Christianity" more then getting real. Jesus Himself was crucified by the religious system of the day, today if Jesus in his sandals and tunic walked into one of these Baptist churches and they knew he had no place to lay his head on earth, they'd all be outraged according to the gospel of the Republican party.

Bible Believer said...

Welcome to the blog Terry. Yes I've had others ask me if I knew of a good church and what can I say? I had even one person I witnessed to do the same. Yes even with home or small fellowships the same thing can happen. I am glad acouple listened. Yes I understand the loneliness. There would be guilt for those with children knowing the outcome of no youth group or fellowship. I had a few years ago and probably wrote this, when I got away from a Calvary Chapel I visited for a short time who told me, "Oh we don't agree with the pastor but we don't want to be alone". Isn't that sad. I'm far from perfect too and that is one thing, people can see those of us who leave the church system as legalistic Pharisees but they do not see what this is all about. I will pray for you and your family Terry. Yes please pray for me too.

Bible Believer said...

Yes the shills are everywhere. Be careful even in the fellowships and elsewhere. Just for having this blog, people have been "sent" to me. I hope no one thinks I am paranoid, but even the Barnes Review blame the Jews literature sending woman I think was playing a role. There is always the influencers out there. I can't go into even more extreme examples. Even if you meet a group of people IRL who say we left the church system and it is Babylon, be careful there too until you get to know them, so many pitfalls, cultists and controllers.

There are false ministries who warn of the church system. Once at a book store, I bought this interesting book, this man denied the church system and warned of it being Babylon but then enter in one main false teaching, that once you become a Christian you do not sin at all, NOT AT ALL ignoring this verse.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Anonymous said...

Joel, I love your story. I will tell you how my mother first believed. Her big brother decided to play pastor, and set up all the stuffed animals, his little sisters, and some neighborhood friends to be the church, and he preached the gospel to them. And that is when my mother accepted Christ. My uncle grew up to be a pastor and now in retirement is a missionary to pastors in Russia and Ghana. It makes me sad though, how prevalent deception is. I know my uncle now has some tie in to Cindy Jacobs (think that's her name) and seven mountains stuff. And my mom does yoga and is disillusioned with church without clinging to the word.

I've been church less for 3-4 years. It feels so unnatural to raise my children outside of church, and last summer I took them to a large baptist church for a while. I think my oldest son asked too many questions and knew too much scripture for the teacher's comfort. And I was not able to meet anyone, outside of shaking hands in 8 weeks of visiting and trying.

I've got one dear real life friend who I pray with and share bible verses. For that I am very thankful. I may be joining a Christian homeschool co-op as a way to be a bit less isolated, and I think I may have a chance for real discussions, where with the modern church that seems to be discouraged.

To the one who commented about being alone with just her 11year old, I'm so sorry. I have felt quite isolated, but at least my children have each other. But I look at the bible and there are so many accounts of God isolating people for himself, for their own growth and for their own good. Moses as a Shepard, same with David, Joseph in prison, Elijah, Elisha, John the Baptist in the desert, so many. I will turn my eyes to God, and trust him in raising my children, even if it feels unnatural to be so alone. And as others have commented, we are the church. We have not given up fellowship ping together and encouraging one another.


William Sculley said...

I know this, Belief is more than just accepting the facts.

As to Orthodoxy being the first Church, if it weren't, then I would have to accept that Christ's prophecy failed, because NONE have existed since the beginning if the Orthodox haven't.

But since you are anti-establishment because you think anything that is established and unchanging is wrong and holding to man's traditions, you can't accept Christ's prophecy literally. Christ prophesied that the gates of hell would never prevail against the Church. According to the logical conclusion of your doctrine, the gates of hell prevailed for 1900 years, because NOBODY believed in the new "fundamentalist" Christianity before the 1900s.

The reason you can't find any churches that fit you is because you're looking for a church that fits you personally. God never designed the Church to conform to us. He designed the Church to conform us to Christ. This is why an unchanging, established faith is necessary. It isn't just the Bible and me. Sola Scriptura is the cause of every heresy in the book. It teaches Arianism, Nestorianism, and even Mormonism and the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

If NOT the Orthodox Church, then who? Nobody. That's who. If Orthodoxy, or some traditional Church, is not the original Church, then none are, the Church failed, and every Christian in the world, bar none, is worshiping a false god.

If you read the writings of those who studied at the feet of the disciples, those called holy by the Apostles, then you will know what the Apostles taught, and it was certainly not Fundamentalism. "No way, No how". There was no KJV onlyism, no Sola Scriptura, no hatred of the other. It was Tradition, because most didn't even have a copy of Scripture. Even those churches that had Scripture were filled with people who, though faithful to the Gospel, had no ability to read what was written. They had to hear the gospel orally, just as the Apostles taught it for 25 years before they wrote the gospels, and 18 years before Paul began writing his epistles. If the written word wasn't so important that Christ wouldn't give it directly to the Apostles, then it isn't so important as to be the center of the Faith. It wasn't the center of Christianity to the Apostles, else they were quite lazy in writing it down.

Anonymous said...

I too have left a Calvary chapel after finally having my eyes opened. I have a dear friend who I fellowship with and do church with. I've learned so much more now as we dive into The Word. May I suggest a Bible Study Fellowship group in your area for fellowship.

Christsfreeservnt said...

I feel with you. I have been down a very similar road myself, and the Lord Jesus clearly told me I was to come out from "Babylon," so that I did not share in any of her sins.

I could write a book, well, with all the blog posts the Lord has given me on that subject alone, I could write a book, though a lot would be repetitive. We haven't been to every church in our town, but we have faced very similar situations as what you described here in every one we did attend. Your assessment of the church today is pretty accurate. And, that is a very sad reality. Some days I break down and weep for lack of true Christian fellowship face-to-face, and I get very little on here, so far, but would love to be with a group of like-minded believers in Christ, even on the internet, as opposed to no fellowship at all. I am lonely, too, but the Lord keeps reminding me to trust him, and that he has it all worked out. So, I believe him.

Anyway, my blog post today was very similar in nature to what you wrote here, so thought I would share it with you. Be blessed - Mrs. Sue Love (age 65)

Christsfreeservnt said...

Wow! Sometimes I feel so alone. Although I feel the pain of your stories, for I have been and am there myself, I don't feel so alone now. I have no church family. I have been kicked out of several because they said I "didn't fit," but they would be glad to help me find someplace else where I would be a "better fit." But, they are right. I don't fit. Thank you BB for opening up this topic. I have been encouraged by what you and others have shared here, because it helps me know I am not alone in this, for I do identify with many of your stories.

Mrs. Sue Love (age 65)

Thank you TruthVigilantee for indirectly pointing me to this site. You mentioned it on "Another Voice," which I have been visiting for several years now on and off.

Christsfreeservnt said...

Sorry, one more. The Lord put this song, which he gave me, in mind when I was reading this blog entry and the comments following it. I hope it will encourage your hearts.

The Lord knows us because he made us. He knit us together in the wombs of our mothers. That means we were born into the families into which we were born, not by mistake, and not by coincidence, nor by an act of nature, but by divine appointment and the will of God. He purposed that we should have the parents we had, even knowing what bad may happen to us, because he has a purpose and a plan for each of our lives. All that we go through in our lives serves a unique purpose in molding us into the people God intends us to be. So, I thank and praise the Lord for how he made me, and that he loved me enough to mold me into someone he could use for his divine will and purposes to bring others to Jesus Christ.

Search Me, O God / An Original Work / July 12, 2012

Based off Psalm 139

O Lord, You search and know me.
You know all that I do.
O Lord, You discern my ways.
I put my trust in You.
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Where can I flee from Your presence?
Where’er I am, You are with me,
Guiding me in love.
O Lord, You search and know me.
You know all that I do.
O Lord, You discern my ways.
I put my trust in You.

O Lord, You made and formed me
In my own mother’s womb.
Your hands beautif’ly made me.
I give my praise to You.
My frame was not hidden from You
When I was made in the dark place.
All the days ordained for me
Were written in Your book.
O Lord, You made and formed me
In my own mother’s womb.
Your hands beautif’ly made me.
I give my praise to You.

O Lord, how precious to me
Are Your thoughts, O my God.
When I wake in the morning,
You are still here with me.
Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Test me and know my anxious thoughts.
See if there is any offense.
Lead me in Your truth.
O Lord, how precious to me
Are Your thoughts, O my God.
When I wake in the morning,
You are still here with me.

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael,

Praise God you were saved. Attached is a link entitled vitals for new converts and spiritual safeguards for your soul. Also, is mentioned here that most. if not all "churches" are oddly enough spiritual death traps. God bless you.

Anonymous said...

Dear Christsfreeservant,

Thank-you for sharing your story. I had the opportunity this morning to visit your blog and have to say, I was incredibly blessed by the first two posts that I read. May God, the Holy Spirit, continue to guide you as you diligently seek Him in ministering to many souls who have left the 501c. 3 and will never return, myself included due to the fakery and spiritual abuse received there by those who love to lord it over people.

I praise God for you and will be visiting your blog often, along with Bible Believer's. May our LORD be with, and bless the both of you women bloggers each and every day.

Christsfreeservnt said...

Anonymous, thank you. All glory to God. He is the one who directs my steps. I just share what he teaches me. This blog of Bible Believer's has blessed my heart, too. I am seeing so many ways in which what she is sharing parallels my own life and experiences. It is encouraging to know that there are others out there with similar passions and callings of God. As I have time, I would like to read more of what she has written on here, because I think it will fill in some missing pieces for me here and there, i.e. some things I didn't quite understand. We are all parts of one body and we need each other, and we each have something to contribute to the whole body. I am glad for the contributions of each and every one of you who has shared your stories. Although I knew I was not alone, it helped to hear it from real people, because in my city, I feel truly alone. I have no friends, no Christian fellowship, and many have rejected me because they don't like what I do, and they don't get me. I am different, and not every one sees different in a positive light.

Anonymous said...

I think it is James 4:4 that warns the Christian about being a friend of the world (buddying up and fellowshipping with the unsaved (though we are to reach out in love with the gospel) -- about being a friend of the world and becoming an enemy of God in so doing. I am lonely too and it does pain me- The devil I think will tempt us in our loneliness to fellowship with darkness. There is a proverb (Book of Proverbs) that says that a righteous man (the saint/Christian) is cautious in friendship. We are to come out and be separate. I also think that false teachers are a sort of test for us. How much do we love (love means obey 1 John and John 14 or 15) -- how much do we love him whose name is Jealous. But I feel your pain BB and the pain of every other person on this blog because I am feeling it to. I think it was Peter who said to take heart and be reminded that our brothers and sisters around the world are going through the same trials. Anyway, it does comfort me to know I am not the only one. But seeing the darkness of this world can at times be so overwhelming. BB, I remember reading a past post of yours that the devil uses this isolation as a way of wearing out the saints. I think that is true. God bless.

Anonymous said...

2 Cor. 12:9 -10, "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." 10) "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

1 Peter 4:12, "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you."

Anonymous said...

Hi BB.

There are so many of us who have left the institutional churches for the same reasons you state, but know that our Lord has instructed us to "Come out of her, My people.", and is doing the pulling Himself.

He is waking us up to the rampant apostasy we are seeing in these end times, and there are many of us in the wilderness with you here. You're not alone, and in fact, the Lord will draw you closer to Him now in true fellowship in this wilderness.

I want to share this video with you in hopes it will bring you the same peace and comfort it has brought me.
This man, Alan Lamont, has a number of videos made, and you will find his teaching sound if you'd care to watch them. His Scottish accent will grow on you, too. :)

God bless you and stay strong.

Bible Believer said...

I have more peace and comfort with my decision. It was tough, but many of us are facing this in leaving the churches. I know I went through the time where I thought can I help some of them see the truth and we don't want to be arrogant know-it-alls and one lady even told me, "you are so smart" but you figure out soon where it would be welcome and not, and a place where I'm not getting past talking about the weather a year in, it's not going to happen. Anon it sounds like you experienced that too Joy I know with people with children this has to be tougher too. Do be careful in the homeschool movement, they are pushing Quiverful, Patriarchy movement and a few other errors there.

William we define church differently, you see it as an institutional body, I see it as born again believers. I don't care about a church fitting me perfectly. I do believe God's Word, is the lamp unto our feet, not manmade church systems and especially not the liturgicals all started by Constantine.

Praise God anon, you came out of Calvary Chapel, I attended one for a short time. I am glad you have a friend to fellowship with.

Bible Believer said...

I've hit the end of the road on the churches unless I move. So yes understand that feeling Christsfreeservnt. I will check out your blog so too. Yes read some of my older articles if you get a chance. This blog has been around for some time now so there is a lot of old stuff. I will admit I have not kept up with my labels and need to fix that soon. I have been lonely without the fellowship and have had my own spiritual fears--you know what will years out of a church do to me? I have faced my own temptations and sins. I am worried now about this appearance of holiness so many of the "good church people" seem so interested into conforming too. It is like they are wearing masks to me. Does anyone here relate to what I am saying on that too?

Yes some churches they will tell you that you "don't fit". Of course some of us will voluntarily leave too. One thing bothers me is how silent I have felt in some of these places. I worry I am growing too quiet, but then maybe the atmosphere's became more oppressive. Even at the Calvary Chapel I left I told the pastor there, that Rick Warren was a false teacher but that church had a few people I could talk to. One man died who I was having conversations with at luncheons that church had--with my husband sharing in the conversations, and he shared some of my concerns. This church I never got to talk to anyone about anything deep, the pastor had a few interesting words on Job and Bible studies that were okay but there was no close fellowship with others. It was way too distant.

Thanks for the song lyrics very nice. I appreciate it a lot. Lately I am wondering about some things in my life, but that is a very faithful song. I wonder if God had me go through some things to make this blog possible. Maybe my unusual life had benefits in that way.

Thanks for the evangelical outreach links

I think the devil can use loneliness too, to get Christians to steer off the right path. This world can be a tough one. It is something to be mindful of. Some people will have lost many people due to their Christian faith. It can be painful. My husband is loving and faithful but I have lost many. This even includes a friend recently. She was in a mainstream church but I had believed she was interested in what I had to say and was interested but I was wrong. She could not accept some of the things I was telling her. The friendship was 5 years old, and I took things slow. I believe the isolation can wear out the saints definitely. I have lost the majority of my family--long story, some was my decision in walking away--obeying God to depart from the wicked. I sometimes have asked God why so many people? Anyone who is suffering this, I will pray for you. This doesn't mean I am a perfect Christian, but obviously my convictions are not being too loved by this world. Many choose ease [doesn't everyone want friends?] and company too over being right with God. Thanks Anon for the verses.

God was definitely pulling me out. I'd be sitting there thinking, I don't want to leave another church. I need a church family....and the pastor would bring up yet another disagreement. I would struggle inside thinking "Maybe I am too picky", "Maybe I am not giving enough grace" but when the evidence piles up where you see no discernment and being one with the world system instead of questioning it, there's no other choice. I hope and pray God draws me even closer and everyone else here. I have to pray to Him about the mask wearing "Christians" I have encountered and I am deeply troubled it is hard to explain and is something I may post about soon. I need to worry about my own sins but this could be something new I am being shown. Thanks for the Alan Lamont video, I will check that out too.

William Sculley said...

Liturgics started in the Old Testament. It's also used in the New Testament, with the Revelation being the most liturgical book in existence. That started way before Constantine. It is also extremely evident in Christian writing after the Apostles. You find liturgical formulas in the second century. The oldest service book used in my Church is the Liturgy of St James, which was formulated in the middle of the second century.

Besides that, I define the Church as scripture defined her: unfailing, organized, united, led by bishops, elders and deacons, and the pillar and foundation of the Truth. If scripture uses that to describe the Church, who am I not to?

Your description of the Church is as failed, weak, powerless, disorganized, with no leadership, no unity, and very little truth.

I believe in a God powerful enough to create this to fulfill His promise. You offer me a bitter rag of a weak god.

How powerful is God if He can't preserve the Church visibly for all to see?

Who are you one with? All you got is a rag tag set of followers on a blog. You can't find a place to "not forsake the gathering together of the brethren" because there is no such place to find people that hold your belief, Because that is counter to your own belief. Your belief precludes true Communion one with the other. It precludes commands such as "bring them before the Church". Where shall you bring them? You have no elders to whom you can go and request the laying on of hands. You can't follow most of the commands of the epistles because they involve the Church, and assume the Church is a visible organized body with authority to handle even internal conflicts that normally end in lawsuits.

Where is the authority in this unempowered Church? It's nowhere to be found. Why should I have faith in that?

Anonymous said...

We can not go to what we are! (Matthew 16:15-19) - Don

Abigail said...

The church goers (I won't call them Christians) in their masks are a phenomenon that troubles me as well. They all seem like they say/believe the right things and often are super committed with their time to do things that they claim are for Jesus. They seem to live so sacrificially and follow many self-imposed rules that seem to be Biblically based. And yet, something is just off with them. Our spirits don't mesh. It is easy to second-guess our Holy Spirit-given discernment and think that we are just being self righteous. One of the side effects of being a humble believer is that we can tend to judge ourselves harshly for what we view as our faults or failures. It can be very discouraging in my own walk with God when I feel myself repulsed by their so-called good works and their perfect personalities.Was I jealous? Was I an anti-social hypocrite? Leaving the church system has given me time to pray and study about the masks and my perception of them. I can best describe this fake, repulsive, mask-wearing, Jesus-claiming false gospel as "the good girl gospel." (Most of the fakies I have been hurt by are women.) It is not the true gospel but an excellent counterfeit! In the good girl gospel, a person lives her entire life trying to look like a good girl. If this person's life is in a church, then the things she says and does to impress others will have an appearance of Christian fruit. A true Christian,though, is able to discern the truth, and sees the cracks in the whitewash over what is really an unsaved person. Likewise, the good girl is skilled at sensing those whose genuine faith contrasts with her own fake religion. She will subconsciously(?) feel threatened by a true Christian who could blow her cover! A professional good girl will tend to gravitate towards people less "good" (but not bad enough to reflect poorly on herself) than herself and to feel threatened and antagonistic towards those true children of God. Even if I never said anything judgmental, good girls could sense our different spirits and put a wall between us or sometimes attack (usually with gossip, one of the universal fruits of a professional good girl gospel type). Part of the good girl gospel is that it requires constant comparison of self with everyone else to make sure the good girl is good enough (ie: better than everyone else).This again is why good girls tend to resent true believers even though they claim to be true believers themselves. I thank God for the divisions HE ALLOWED between me and these people, even the ones in my own family! I thank Him that, although I am not perfect, I am living to please Him, not living the good girl gospel.

Anonymous said...

Hi BB.

It's me again, the Alan Lamont video Anon. :)

The farther I got from from the institutional church, the more I realized that all I ever needed was the Bible and the Holy Spirit to teach me. In fact, the more I got hold of that truth, the more I knew how dangerous it was to let anyone get between God and me. That's where error enters in and can completely derail our walk with our Lord.
Our move to the wilderness is protecting us from the apostasy all churches are now moving toward, and it's poison to a Christian soul. Rejoice and be glad in spite of the loneliness you may feel at times, because we truly are blessed.

What is most concerning to me is the weakened state of those still in the institutional churches. We are in the last days, and they are in no way prepared for what we will face.
It has been estimated that 50 million Protestants lost their lives during the RCC inquisition many years ago because they refused to deny Christ. This is what we will be facing, too, and very soon.
I personally believe it will be up to us 'called out ones' to witness at the top of our lungs as we face real persecution.

Of course, any Protestant that knows our history can tell you that the "many shall come saying they are the Christ' is the long succession of Popes and the anti-christ, the 'man of sin' is already here.

Ah well. Coming down off my soapbox now, I'll leave you with this ~ Grab hold of Jesus and don't let go, no matter what comes. We don't fight this evil, He does.

You're not alone, BB, and I'll see you at the wedding feast. :)

Love, ~Anon

Anonymous said...

Hi again, BB.

Grab a coffee and a plate of something tasty and devote a half hour of your time to this ~

This is the proof that the anti-christ sits in Rome.

Anonymous said...

William Sculley, one thing I do know is God the Father does not see me as a "rag tag blog follower." Your words are offensive and hurtful. The Lord has called many of us out of the church system. I for one never thought I would ever leave my church, but the Holy Spirit had other plans. Praise God I listened. I would never encourage anyone to leave their church UNLESS they are being led by the Holy Spirit. Yes, I miss the fellowship - iron sharpens iron, but for the time being, I am where I am supposed to be. My walk is closer to the Lord, it is growing, I am sharing the Gospel with others, I have peace and truly believe many of us have been moved out of the church system for protection as we witness the falling away and apostasy. Should the Lord move me back into the church system, then it will be by his leading. Until then, I will remain where I His hands. BB, most of us are at different places in our journey on the narrow path. Some of us are further along than others ("why can't they see what I see?")...they simply can't keep up with us. Not everyone pursues "truth" at the same level or degree. Sometimes we walk with others for a time, for fellowship, and then we move on or they do. I cherish those times when I am walking together with others and then at some point I'm walking alone again. It seems to be an ebb and flow. AW Tozer wrote a wonderful piece called The Loneliness of the Christian. Here is the link:

Anonymous said...

William Sculley, you said, "Besides that, I define the Church as scripture defined her: unfailing, organized, united, led by bishops, elders and deacons, and the pillar and foundation of the Truth. If scripture uses that to describe the Church, who am I not to?"

I think you are missing the point. A church should be the foundation of truth, and that is what many of us cannot find. Many false churches are united and organized. You really fail to realize what the true meaning of a church is.

William Sculley said...

To the first: rag tag refers to the nature of blog followings. They are, by nature, uninvolved in the daily life of those in the blog. You can't really be involved in the life of a person online. That is not the Church. That is the opposite of the Church, for it makes oneness impossible. How can you be one with those you can't ever meet? You can't.

I'll respond to the rest later.

William Sculley said...

To the question of the existence of false organized churches. Yes, there are many. The existence of false teachers doesn't rule out the possibility of true teachers. The same can be said of organized churches. God commanded a level of organization that was Church wide. The entire Church has a form of organization, primarily for administrative purposes, but also for doctrinal unity. The Apostles appointed bishops, who appointed elders and bishops and deacons. Elders presided in local congregations. Deacons looked after the widows and needy in the Church and assisted the elders in the local congregation.

Such leadership was already established by 80 AD, as evidenced in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch.

God also promised that this Church would be everlasting and would grow to become the Bride of Christ. It is described as the pillar of truth.

You will never find a single Church that is perfect, but all these Churches, organized and united, make a whole that never fails, despite our individual failings. Why would I want something else when God promised an eternal Church starting at Pentecost?

Anonymous said...


You made some very strong, yet truthful points regarding the Christian mask/façade. I have to agree with most of what you posted and want to encourage you in your faith in Christ without the mask of religion. What I have found so amazing with our LORD, is that when I need to share my burdens with another or need edification in my faith in Jesus, alone, God has placed believers that do not belong to the 501c 3 church systems here in America, to have relationships and fellowship with so that I may be encouraged in my faith. Praise God, they have the character that I can confide in and ask for prayer for they can hold my confidences, unlike the churched, who cannot wait to gossip, whisper, tale bear, and often lie about you and your circumstances to their own benefit. Most 'church' people do not genuinely care about others because they are the sheep of God, but instead use them as a way and a means to posture themselves for upper 'leadership' roles within the Nicolaitan system.

It's all about being a 'leader' in today's church systems, instead of the humble servant the Jesus showed and taught us how to be.

Be strong in the LORD Abigail! You are a great witness for Him!

Anonymous said...

Scripture to meditate on...
Romans 14 - Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind

Bible Believer said...

Willam Jesus himself warned the sheep would be scattered.

So how do you explain that?

Your church is in with the new world order Pope. You probably think the politicians and the United Nations are truth tellers.

From what I can tell you are not in a break off branch, but the mainstream Orthodox church whose patriarchs go pay homage to the Pope every other day.

Jesus Christ was crucified by the powerful visible, organized religious system of his day, so you think on that a bit as you tell us we are to be united with the powerful, visible and organized.

Your problem is you are sticking to the power and prestige and pomp of THIS WORLD.

Bible Believer said...

Revelation 18:4King James Version (KJV)

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Don't define the church as world institutions. It is not brick and mortar buildings. It is born again Christians.

Many Christians are coming out of her. That means not sitting there listening to their global warming, globalist, and endless other lies.

I know even with this Pope, many Catholics are shocked and outraged and leaving. I hope they are born again. I am shocked at someone who can read this blog and be told about the interfaith movement, and about satanic lies being spread world wide and still stick by church leaders who support all of it. Ye must be born again. Then you can be free of the deceivers and follow Jesus Christ. "My sheep hear my voice".

Bible Believer said...

Ignatius was a deceiver.

"One thing I want to challenge those who are new to this type of thinking is to think outside the institutional church box. There was a time when I had to do the SAME. This blog if anything has shown how corrupt the church system has become and how tied it is into the world system, of both religious and political Babylon. The false church system became corrupt from very early on. The book of Acts even warns about grievous wolves RIGHT at that TIME. To me some of those wolves are those honored church fathers who brought in false teachings of Rome like Ignatius of Antioch backing up the clergy system. Who knows what's a forgery or what is not? Even the academics quibble over what is "spurious" [fake] or not. All I know is none of this stuff matches the Bible. Click to enlarge.


Bible Believer said...

I have studied some of their writings, and found most opposite to scripture and setting up things for later deception. What can sum up the teachings of most early church fathers, but the NICOLAITANS. . It's all about elevating man and a CLERGY SYSTEM.

Revelation 2:6
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

I could write individual articles talking about the false teachings of Ignatius, Origen, Clement and a whole bunch of them, but given time and space, have not. Anyhow I have read this stuff years ago, even though a lot caused my eyes to droop in boredom and it was hard going. I knew God wanted me to at least know the basic truth about these guys, so the "church history" message would not deceive me as I have seen it do so with many intellectually driven types who let man's history fool them over God's Word.

In paraphrased form, this is basically what is written in the above...and elsewhere.

“Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your Clergy too, as you would Apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command from God. Make sure no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is present, we have the Catholic Church. Nor is it permissable to conduct baptism or the Eucharist without the bishop. On the other hand, whatever does have this sanction can be sure of God’s approval too. This is the way to make certain of soundness and validity of anything you do.”

If one keeps their scripture thinking cap on, they can figure out quick they are dealing with early wolves and deceivers. Here is one quote I found years ago...

"VIII. I therefore have done my own part as a man perfectly established in union. But where there is division and wrath, God dwells not. Therefore the Lord forgives all that repent, if on their repentance they turn to the unity of God and the council of the bishop. I believe in the grace of Jesus Christ, Who shall loose from off you every bond.[1] Moreover, I entreat you, act not in any matter in the spirit of faction, but as disciples of Christ. For I have heard some saying, 'Except I find it in the archives {SCRIPTURES} [2] I believe it not in the Gospel.' And when I said to them, 'It is written,'[3] they answered me, 'That is the question in dispute.' But my archives[4] are Jesus Christ; the inviolable"

Does that saying sound familiar? Keep this in mind...

We were told to search scriptures to see if things were so, and Ignatius did not like that oviously claiming he was going straight to the source "jesus" while ignoring scripture. Where have we heard that before but from Rome itself?

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

William Sculley said...

1. Scattering does not imply a lack of organization or unity. There is a clonal colony in the Midwest. From the outside, it looks like a bunch of trees, all individuals. However, it is all, in truth, one tree. All of the above ground portions are connected at the roots and organized together.

2. The Roman Church is a heretical organization with which Communion is impossible unless the Romans repent of their false teachings. Your false evidence of unity is just that: false. Just because we have discourse does not mean we have Communion.

3. If the followers of the Apostles failed, become a non Christian. They are false not because they contradict scripture, but because they contradict YOU AND YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE. The difference is that you expect PERFECTION from the saints. You don't even have a perfect copy of scripture. Every version has errors. The stuff you teach here never existed prior to the modern era precisely because it was invented in the modern era.

Besides all this, those men you call heretics are the ones who wrote the canon of scripture that you use. They determined which books were in the Bible in 367 AD.

Funny that, somehow they were sola scriptura before the scripture was even compiled.

The point is, if the Orthodox Church isn't the same as the first, then none are, least of all the powerless idea of a disorganized Church. You call a useless group of leaderless ranters a Church? I call it powerless and inhuman.

What is a Church? It's a body. It's the pillar of truth. Without organization, you can't be the pillar of anything. And since you demonize the Church, you violate one of the commands of scripture, rejecting the gathering together of the brethren. You become nothing, with no power, no life, no connection to heaven.

This freedom from religion you preach is slavery to self.

William Sculley said...

Secondly, Ignatius likely didn't have anything other than the Old Testament, since the New Testament hadn't even been finished. When he said he went straight to the source, this means that, rather than accepting the interpretation of the Pharisees and false teachers, he would stay with that which was first delivered to him, directly by John the Apostle, the "one whom Jesus loved". To boot, there were also many false scriptures being circulated at the time of Ignatius, who was refusing to follow the false letters being passed around. Understanding the context of your quotations dismantles your claims, since Ignatius spent most of his writing career combating forged scriptures.

William Sculley said...

As the ridiculous assertion that I think politicians are truth tellers, you obviously don't know me very well. What I do know is that truth is truth, regardless of the source. If the Pope says Jesus is God, it doesn't make the teaching that Jesus is God a false one. That's your problem. You're so sold into this conspiracy theory of the "new world order" that you don't even realize that's EXACTLY WHAT SATAN WANTS YOU TO DO! He wants you to separate yourself from the Church out of fear. He wants you to distrust organized faith. He wants you to be alone in the world, just you and your book. He knows that he can trick any person into believing heresy when they have no Church around them. It took Satan a thousand years to create the Pope. Then another five hundred years to split Rome into the Protestant Reformation. Then, using the heresy of sola scriptura, Satan created thousands upon thousands of divisions. Then he created KJV onlyism using a Seventh Day Adventist and created dozens of KJV only denominations while still making thousands of other churches. Throughout all this orthodoxy never changed.

All forms of "just the Bible and me" Christianity are descendants of Satan's deception. You cannot stand alone. Alone, you are weak. The Church is necessary to Christian living. And without it, there is no Christianity.

Satan wants you to believe in a new world order. It's so much easier for him to control you if you do.

Edyta Tehrani said...

I don't think there is room for any of us in the church system. My husband and I left over 10 years ago too. We were lay ministers, we worked with many churches from many denominations and we loved the people we were ministering too, but could not stand the fact that every time the Holy Spirit moved during our ministry, the church politics quenched it. The denominations wanted to capitalize every time more spiritually hungry people began to show up by pushing the church to start a church building project and before long everything began to be about money. We refused to be part of it several times. We also have very few Christian friends who are on the same page spiritually.

I believe we need to stay faithful to The Lord and rich out only to those people who are spiritually hungry like us, or even be open to rich unbelievers who are hungry for the true gospel and disciple them when they get saved. Break bread from house to house, fellowship together and spread the true gospel. Remember that we are all on spiritual journey with The Lord and we might not all have revelation in some areas, so let us not push our convictions on others, but pray that The Lord Himself will open their eyes to see, focus on the Bible, prayer and living for the Lord and everything else will line up in place eventually. The time is coming when The Lord will judge this false church system and pour out His Spirit on those who are faithful to Him. God bless you all.

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer, thank you for the warning about traps within the homeschooling groups as well.

I found this song called "I just don't want to go to church anymore." Made me laugh and think of this post.

Actually, this man (Jack Marti) puts lots of scripture to music. He gives it away, free mps's and you-tube channel. I really enjoy having it on in the background as I go about my day, learning the word and putting it in my heart.


Anonymous said...

Hello BB,

1)This post is for Alan Lamont. June 20, 2015 at 10:49 AM - I think I have heard him speak of the Sunday Laws but he used to just cover the Vatican. He has been associated with Eric John Phelps and now does many videos showing himself in them which he never did before. He has subscribed to a Sabbath channel. Alan Lamont -

This next post was on this date "June 20, 2015 at 10:49 AM" and is linked to the infamously wicked "World's Last Chance" who are also SDA. They predicted that J. Paul II was going to resurrect from the dead and were found false when Benedict was chosen and now this Jesuit Bergoglio. They tried to cover up the false prophecy by saying a demon would be impersonating JP2. Well, that demon hasn't showed up yet with JP2's face on it.

June 21, 2015 at 1:04 PM
2) Anonymous said...
Hi again, BB.

Grab a coffee and a plate of something tasty and devote a half hour of your time to this ~ (This is actually the "break-away" World's Last Chance YouTube Channel)

This is the proof that the anti-christ sits in Rome.

Eliza said...

I can relate to everyone's story as my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ called me out of the visible church about seven years ago when I stood up for the truth and opposed the false teachings of a popular but dead "apologist", who just never happened to quote the Bible. My husband and I tried many churches in our area, but the pastors were always teaching things that didn't line up with the Bible. Although, I am sad for everyone who doesn't have the fellowship they desire with other believers, I am thankful to God that He has called us out of the apostate religious system masquerading as Christ's holy assembly. Praise God for opening our eyes to the truth, for without the Holy Spirit's illumination regarding the apostasy of the visible church we would all still be deceived. Praise God that my husband and I spend time in His Word together and pray together and our adult daughter joins us. Praise God that He has done many wonderful things in our lives. I also yearn for face to face fellowship with other believers, but I trust Jesus Christ that He is leading me. Also, I realize that the way that leads to life is narrow and few find it. God bless us.

Anonymous said...

Hi, i'm from asian. I feel sorry to hear many christians not found the trus fellowship or church. It was once happen to me too. But it's been 4 years since i have found a true fellowship, i feel so happy. My faith, hope, and love grow on this christian community (not a church), i meet other christians who love God more than church regulation and love other. Together we learn gospel and together we share it. I feel what Paul write in the Bible about a fellowship where Christ is the core of it. It feel so nice, christian community or fellowship is the place where i can learn how to love other with all their weakness and imperfect, where other christians teach me to become more like Jesus, become Jesus Disciple more than just a fan.

I hope you guys feel what i feel to and someday meet the true fellowship. We are like sheep just like the Bible describe us, sheep lives in group. If a sheep get separated from the group, it's mean the sheep is in a danger situation. I wish just like what the Good Shepherd do, He find the lost or lone sheep and bring the sheep to its group. I believe there is still many good fellowship there because life is like a journey and God doesn't want us to be alone because it would be hard for us human.

If you guys still can't find what you were looking for, you can create one or you can fix the crack in the Church rather than leave it. Or if it's to hard, you can gather a few christians and make a fellowship, praise God and learn bible together.

But just remind it, that there is no perfect Church. That why Jesus last prayer before he face death, that all believers become one just like the Father and the Son are one. Jesus has sacrifice His body tear apart, so that we who believe can be one. Unity or Christian Community or Fellowship is what Jesus want, we are not mean to be alone.