Friday, December 19, 2014

Warning People About Christmas is Not Easy



1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 I know it can be very hard. I also know we have to be careful to be loving while telling people the truth. There are Christians who have disagreed with me on celebrating Thanksgiving--[I use it to give Thanks to God and make turkey. The one guy who argues it is a gathering around of all religions, may have a point for public involvement with the holiday but I do not see God condemning one for prayers of thanksgiving at home and making a nice meal.

As for birthdays--[this is something I may scripturally have to take a look at] for now I may still observe the day but don't go crazy about it. Already I have given up Christmas, Halloween and every other Catholic dominated holiday like St. Patrick's Day. While doing cards for a volunteer project it can get weird to explain why I refuse to put Happy Easter on a card or Merry Christmas or Happy St. Patrick's Day.

 I have Christian friends who disagree with me about Christmas. I am the only person I know who does not celebrate Christmas outside of some Jewish folks. I know it's not easy. In my old IFB, even a few church members still celebrated Christmas while others do not. There is incredible pressure out there to celebrate Christmas. I know often my not celebrating it makes me feel like an outsider. It does come with a price.

 Sometimes I have prayed about where to draw the line. I don't want to be a legalist, what if some people threw me over the way side for cooking a turkey on Thanksgiving however I do think once you know something like Christmas means CHRIST MASS, God does hold you responsible for what you know. I suppose I put this in the category, that I pray God convicts someone about this issue and shows them. It took me YEARS to pull away from Christmas. I don't want to make a believer stumble banging the gong about it, or to be mean about it, but then I do want people to know the truth. I've known Hebrew Roots people who told me I was going to hell for eating a piece of ham. They didn't exactly bring any peace or joy to my life.

 This time of year is not an easy one for me. Please pray for me as I have been very ill the last couple weeks. I plan to still keep posting here as long as I can but some of the illnesses which have included a flu probably made in a lab considering the way it is spreading around here, have been very tough. I almost ended up in the hospital. If my health takes a turn for the worse, my husband does have the password here, and I would have him write the readers here on the blog. [He supports my blog here which is a blessing from God]

 I do hate Christmas, but believe what the Bible says in the book of Luke about Jesus Christ. I was supposed to go to a party for a book club, it wasn't based on any Christmas theme but got very sick. Maybe God knew ahead time for me they'd be singing Christmas hymns or something. I'm not sure. I had two events like this happen. For some reason this seems to happen in December. Someone told me, "Well just see it as a cultural thing you do not have to partake in", I already have had two visitors ask me if I am Jewish for the lack of Christmas decorations in my dwelling. Everyone then thinks you are a Jehovah Witness too.

 This is not an easy one to explain to folks. For me, I know I am responsible before God, especially being an ex- UU, I know what all that holidays that celebrate the solstice mean. I know what the Catholic church calendar means too. Celebrating Christmas for me is not an option. I am a woman with a blog that wrote and believes the Mass is Satanic witchcraft, I'm not going to be a hypocrite. Christmas also gives me a sinking pit in my stomach. I feel like if I celebrated knowing what I know, I would be betraying God. I have no choice about it. Maybe Christmas was easier for me to give up because I am poor, there never was money for presents or a filet mignon dinner, or any of that. It's like the rich man and the eye of the camel. For someone like myself it may be easier to walk away from but then God will desire obedience whether something is hard or easy. The main reason to give up Christmas was for God.

 That said being someone, who has lived among unsaved people and other people who disagree with me on just about everything out there. I have had to try and teach myself that line of holding to the truth and still being loving. The world will hate Christians but one doesn't want to rankle people purposefully. With the Christmas issue, it is one I do bring up gently. It sometimes feels like a line I will trip over all the time. I am only human and can do my best but then realize that applies to others. How can we tell them? Sometimes it can be very hard to tell someone something, even the gospel and see them turn against it, or not agree. You can only try.

 Christmas, I hate it. I can tell they are blending Christmas and "magic" and the debris of other religions, even in some of the advertising out there. Christmas is loved by every foreign religion and culture out there. Even Satanists have no qualms when it comes to Christmas which should give you major pause. I don't want to see any demonic elves, or lies of Santa Claus sold to any more children.

 I hope one day more can see it the way I do and understand why it is a holiday not honoring to God but for now I will pray and hope more people wake up to God's Truth and understand it is not a Christian holiday. I know it is a hard one to pull away from. This is a place where one has to actually put their head above their own cultural programming and seek out God above it all. When I left Christmas behind, in 2003/2004, I remember all the emotions that came up for me. Many people were not happy with me. Maybe were surprised and shocked. I have to admit I will be happier when Christmas is over, to me it is a day of spiritual darkness. When I was UU, they celebrated the solstices and even would say "Happy Solstice". Yes I know what Christmas is, and it is not Christian. I couldn't even fake it now even if I wanted to and I definitely don't want to displease God.




101 comments:

Rena said...

Right there with you! None of our family understand our position and quite frankly, don't want too. We have tried to explain it to them, my mother thinks the sole reason we don't celebrate it is b/c it isn't commanded in the Bible, my husband's folks think we are aligning with the ACLU and turning our backs on Christ. Our kids don't care, except it is one less gift they receive. Usually, as in most pagan things, the people of the world will accept your beliefs much easier than your "fellow Christians". And as you said, if it is something that even Satanist can accept and participate in, well, that should be a BIG red flag. But people are determined to hang on to their long held traditions regardless of how heretical they are. I just wonder how longsuffering God is about this wicked form of "worship". Good thing this time next week, it will all be over and then a small break before Valentine's Day & Easter. Hope you feel better soon!

Anonymous said...

Praying for you Bible Believer. Glad you are standing on truth. It encourages me very much. God bless you sister.

Faith

Anonymous said...

Actually, I could do without Christmas quite easily -- for the theological reasons you mentioned, which I agree with, but also because of the hassle, busyness and expense associated with it. Let's face it, Christmas loses a lot of its interest after about the age of 15 or so. At least it did for me.

I don't give a lot of presents and I don't expect, or want, a lot in return. (My family are Christians but insist on observing the holiday out of tradition.)

My house is the only one on our black without lights up.

I have to admit, though, I love the smell of the fir branches.

Anonymous said...

As I said I glad you are standing for truth about X-mas. I pray that you would reconsider b days and Thanksgiving also. Both are rooted in
Paganism.

Faith

Mom4Truth said...

I appreciate your (timely) post. Yours was one of the first blogs I found after coming to Truth. I remember right off the bat a discussion with you about Christmas. I found such comfort in knowing we weren't alone in that decision because I'd never met anyone that didn't partake. I have learned that it is such a central issue in so many ways. It really does help identify fruit, obedience, discernment, chastisement, who is with us and who is against us. Scripture tells me the Lord chattels those whom He loves. I begin to wonder when someone is not being chastened, corrected, or convicted about something so essential as, what you've rightly pointed out to be, sun worship. It cannot be simplified as a conscience issue. Or a liberty issue. Or a let each be persuaded in his own mind issue. After much study in the Word, we see it is sun worship for which the people of God were sore chastened, exiled, and eventually divorced. It is no light matter. The impetus then falls upon true remnant to warn that our God is great, mighty, and terrible and hates the lies of idolatry, compromise, and lying worship. Our example in Scripture of 'love' is obedience: If you love me, you'll obey my commands. We must be about our Father's business, saving with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Our Scriptural example of legalism is people who teach for doctrines the commandments of men. Also, making the Word of God of none effect through your vain traditions. That is legalism. To teach, encourage, yoke with something that is not Biblical, commanded, or encouraged, or worse to encourage participation in something forbidden. We must not let the bullies scare us with the title legalist because we have Truth ever on our side! The true legalists are those who would encourage behavior outside of our contrary to Scripture. Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. I encourage you to understand that you have righteousness and Truth on your side in that battle, just as you encouraged me so many years ago.

As you know, we have stopped doing all holidays and birthdays. I posted on my blog about thanksgiving, haven't done one on birthdays. But again, it's a few and far between remnant who see these things for what they are. You know about the Catholicism of the other holidays, I encourage you to look into T-giving as well, which was a pagan fertility feast in its inception. You said a pamphlet is what opened your eyes to Christmas. The internet is one big pamphlet that affords us the grace of not having to be ignorant of the origins of our vain, man-made traditions.

Thanks again for sticking with all of us in the Christmas battle.

Blizzard of Bugs said...

Many Christians quote me chapter 14 of Romans as defense for celebrating Christmas. It has always really bugged me because they deny so many other scriptures that define christmas as pagan. Since Christmas is a pagan invention it most definitely dishonest to the context of Romans 14.

When you quote scriptures in the old testement such as the one in Jeremiah 10 etc., they deny that it is relevant to christmas. I was reading the scriptures with my wife and we read in Romans where Paul was talking about how the law made him aware of what lust was and without the law he would have never known what it was.
In the same way scriptures such as Jeremiah and many more define Christmas to be nothing more than a spiritual practice that heathens have invented in order to create something they somehow do not have on a daily basis.

Anonymous said...

thanksgiving is also a pagan holiday

Anonymous said...

You are not alone. There are more of us coming to this realization. Praise God! The Holy Spirit is opening our eyes to this truth. Yes, we are in the minority - it is part of the process of Christians leaving this world behind - detaching ourselves to the things of this world.

Anonymous said...

My husband and I also stopped celebrating Christmas over 12 years ago. Our families probably think we're weird. It really doesn't even come up anymore. They know not to expect to see us until after January.

I have noticed that people do still try to pull you in. One aunt mails us a Christmas card every year, which we promptly throw away. My niece's mom tried to invite me to my niece's Christmas play. I had to remind her that I don't celebrate Christmas.

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

Anonymous said...

Funny thing, Christmas was ILLEGAL in the United States in the late 1700s and early 1800s. It was illegal, because, it was counted as a form of catholic infiltration.

Catholic infiltration, that they wanted to avoid. They left Europe to get away from the vatican's persecutions.

It took about 100 years for the catholics to pound society into submission to Christmas. Now the tables are turned, and you're the outcast for speaking against Christmas.

Catholic infiltration is complete. The government is run by catholics, and most churches caved into the ecumenical acceptance of catholicism.

So stand strong to speak against catholicism.

Mom4Truth said...

Anon,

You're right about it being illegal. You probably all know this, but I was surpassed to learn that the Scrooge character was based on a Protestant pastor who spoke out against the evils of Christmas. Dickens was anti-Christian. I thought that was fascinating as I played Scrooge in a play as a kid. Didn't know that it was an anti-Christ twisting of something I would eventually come to understand and speak against with such voracity! Thanks for everyone's comments. Glad to know there are others out there!

Anonymous said...

Instead of saying that christmas is pagan, and going back to Jeremiah 10, which indeed discusses what we now call the christmas tree, we really need to look at the foundation of this festival and the religion that founded it.

Download a free PDF copy of The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, this will give you a foundation of everything you need to know of God’s adversary - and who our enemy is today. Although when printed, it was anti-catholic in slant - we must realise today that catholics are just one of its branch offices… all false religions and all modern cultures are based in Babylon. And the NWO is really the OLD World Order - Babylon reborn. The catholics now are just the religious branch office in the NWO.

Ezekiel 8:14-16 is also discussing this same festival / commemoration of the death and resurrection and worship of Tammuz as the sun god. After Nimrod the father of Tammuz was murdered, his wife Semiramis (aka - queen of heaven / mary / diana / ashteroth / astarte / artemis / ishtar / easter / esther / frida / cybelle / juno / the moon goddess etc - of King Solomon fame Judges 2:13 - 1 Samuel 12:10 etc and Jeremiah 7:18 and catholics worshipping mary statues) said to everyone in Babylon that Nimrod had been reborn and that the sign of a dead tree stump suddenly coming to life was the evidence of such. This is the christmas tree. This rebirth gave Semiramis the RIGHT TO RULE AS QUEEN ? GODDESS - which she needed for people to follow her… Nimrod is the sun god, aka baal / molech / saturn / kronos / brahma / ra / osiris / chemosh / odin / santa. Each year at saturnalia / christmas / yule the people weep for the death of Tammuz the son who was also murdered (aka as all names for Nimrod + thor / horus and many others) before he is resurrected as Nimrod his father - the sun god.

Semiramis is the mother / wife of Nimrod and the grandmother / wife of Tammuz. Look out for every religion that spouts the “mother god” theory and you see this satanic trinity at work. Mother - Son worship around the planet is also of the same origin.

The pyramid represents father / mother / son. The satanic trinity. The sun always represents Nimrod the sun god, as do the horns and the wings. By the power of bulls Nimrod ruled, this is also why the Moses Israelites stupidly built a calf as a representation of the true God, and why Hindus worship cows to this day, and why Osiris always is represented with a sun depicting Nimrod, horns depicting right to rule, and the eagle wings of Nimrod for battle. This is also why when Nimrod is represented as King - ie Moloch - he has a bull’s head to accept the sacrifice through his sun fire as his right to rule.

During this festival that we now call christmas, which was once called saturnalia / yule / winter solstice, children were sacrificed through the fire of Moloch so that winter would end and summer return. Moloch simply means king and Baal means lord, both are talking about the sun god / the god of fire… Nimrod or Tammuz reborn… they are the same. When Christians were burned alive in the past 2000 years - this too was a sacrifice to Moloch / Nimrod. The same is true when aborted babies are put into the fire today - its a sacrifice to Moloch. The "satan" statue with the children ready for sacrifice in the US is really Moloch / Nimrod.

The Roman saturnalia was a long festival of sex, festivities and exchanging gifts. At the end of saturnalia - children were sacrificed in the fire. Just as the Egyptian kings said they were gods alive on earth - so too the Roman emperors did the same. These kings were supposed to be Tammuz reincarnated on earth to rule by divine right. The Roman emporors ran into problems when they said they were god already on earth, instead of becoming gods after their death - as was custom - when they would reincarnate as the sun god.

CONTINUED...

Anonymous said...

The catholic mass stick wafer thingo is a dedication to the SUN GOD, the word mass means “VICTIM” or “MURDERED” so the catholics are murdering / sacrificing their victim Jesus Christ to Nimrod each christmas. The idols of a demented and broken Jesus on a tammuz cross are representing the killing of Christ as a sacrifice to the same Tammuz / Nimrod.

When you say Merry Christmas - what you’re really saying is happy torture and slaughter of Jesus Christ - the most sick and blasphemous statement anyone could say in their lives, and a statement that will condemn the speaker at the Judgement Throne of Christ Jesus.

Ever wonder why the media / government etc who despise Christ / God all year, suddenly fall in love and promote christmas and easter every year?? Its not a contradiction - these are the festivals of the adversary.

The early Christians identified each other in secret and under extreme persecution and genocide with the symbol of the apostles - a simple fish diagram drawn in the sand at a well. Matthew 4:19 - the apostles were fishers of men, and such was the secret identifier of the fishers of men, the apostles who were calling them on behalf of Jesus, under extreme persecution.

Baking cakes to the queen of heaven in Jeremiah 7:18 is of course dedication to Easter / Ishtar / Mary / Esther etc Rebirth / resurrection of Tammuz. This is also why the easter story doesn't line up with the Biblical account of the death and resurrection of our Messiah.

The word Cannibal comes from saturnalia too. As every single Nimrod religious invention is a perversion of the Word of God… so too is this festival. As the Israelite Levite priests were commanded to eat of the sacrifice, so too are the priests of Baal commanded to eat of their human sacrifices. The Chaldean word / name of Cahn / Kuhn / Cohen / Calvin etc means PRIEST…. Bal means BAAL… Cannibal means the Priest of Baal - who ate human flesh… at christmas from the sacrifices to Moloch. I am almost certain the “abomination” in Isaiah 66:17 refers to this cannibalism at christmas??

Ashteroth means builder of towers… meaning towers around babylon the first walled city. Also the tower of Babel. The JW Watchtower is dedicated to the same Artemis, builder of towers and you can find her statue in a garden in Villa d'Este, Tivoli, Italy with the watchtower logo as a hat. “THE WATCHTOWER” is of course the tower of Babel. As the founder of the WT has a pyramid as his tombstone, so too does their cousin - the founder of 7th day adventists have a BAALS SHAFT as her tombstone. Artemis and all her names is the queen of heaven / mother of god - who is their mother of all living (EVE) - hence why she has so many teets.

Use Google images right now on any of the gods / names mentioned above. Type in the god name and then the word “STATUE” and you will see all the images and gods and names all line up together perfectly.

CONTINUED...

Anonymous said...

Even the mayans, aztecs, japanese, chinese, indians all had exactly the same gods and human sacrifices and holy days. The statue of liberty is Semiramis / Artemis etc with the authority of Nimrod with her SUN hat / holding the light of illumination of their “true god of truth” of Babylon.

Babylon is everything. Babylon is the adversary. And she has risen once more and is all around us, she controls us, she owns us, we are her slaves, we have been fooled to worship her once more, and most do not see her in our presence, yet they worship her still.

Jerusalem was destroyed by Jesus Christ in 70AD for exactly this reason, and now after 2000 years of forgetting these gods - Babylon is back as our master and the god of this world, as are all her celebrations.

Christmas is the most evil celebration ever invented. Pray to the Lord God Almighty that Santa / Nimrod / Moloch NEVER visits your children when they are sleeping !!!

I will pray for your health BB - as per James 5:13-15.

May God bless everyone who has faith in Christ Jesus in these times and festivities of evil, and may our one true God call out to his lost sheep in these last days that they may no longer be partakers of wickedness, that their eyes may be opened, and that the Spirit of God remove their blindness and increase their knowledge of our God and Saviour. Remembering always that our God is a just God, a perfect judge, and that He will condemn the wicked. Hosea 4:6 seems appropriate to finish on, as all of Hosea is about God’s children committing adultery with these same false gods of Babylon, as they so do right now once again.

All the strange gods in Scripture are these same false gods indeed, and here we are again, after so long. The new world order is the old world order of Babylon, and this dragon is wroth to destroy the "former" Christian nations which God so blessed for so long.

Finished.

Anonymous said...

The Catholics are NOT the adversary. They have always fornicated with these same false gods throughout history, and their religion is now finally fully in service to them. But they are not in charge. They were subjugated by Napoleon and brought under the full control of the true adversary. They are now a branch office, nothing more. Though through the power of the numbers of their followers - they will be the head of the false religious system. Just like the WHO is the head of health, World Bank for finance, Refugees, Immigration, World Court, Trade etc etc.

We can look upon the pollution of their well and cry out this is the source of the bitterness. But this is not the source, this is just the biggest spring where we see the poisoned waters fall upon the earth that attacks the flock of Christ as they are priests of Baal. Just like all the other smaller bitter wells of false churches. The true source of the pollution is across the entire planet, it is hidden beneath bedrock so that very few can see its true identity.

Think of the New World Order as Babylon the Great, the City… but now its across the entire planet earth, and at war against God Almighty and His SON. This planetary city needs her priests, health services, food services, slave masters, courts, rules, finances, entertainment etc Exactly like Rome was set up.

All of the earth’s most powerful institutions have now become slaves to the dragon. Each has its purpose, and each is controlled by the dragon. But the priests are NOT the head of the dragon. The pontiffs were once priests and kings and gods, but not any more. They are now returned to be priestly masters of their new king in Babylon.

This new king is Babylon, and its far greater in power than any can imagine, and while it reveals itself now, its been back for the past 200 years.

Stop watching Left Behind nonsense and waiting for some “the anti-christ” to arrive, and forget waiting to be micro-chipped or raptured into the clouds from all the false preachers, and stop flying the star of Rempham (Acts 7:43). The time is at hand, the dragon has been released… Repent, believe in the Son of God and that He alone can give remission of sins through His blood sacrifice as propitiation for our sins against God. Believe that He died and was risen again and ascended to the right hand of God, confess His Name in the sight of men, and prepare to stand at the Judgement Throne of Jesus Christ, when the books shall be opened.

Anonymous said...

Also right there with you and the rest of the Remnant. We are not to esteem one day over another.. Praying for your health, as well. One thing I've found to actually work with flus etc. and is inexpensive is oil of oregano. Here in Canada it cost about $10, so may be cheaper there. God Bless and take care!

Anonymous said...

I am a believer and I do not share your conviction about the celebration of Christmas, that this is a battle or hill to die on. There are bigger fish to fry and withdrawing in my view is not the answer. I fully agree that Romanism is a false religion and a false gospel but believe in going about confronting it in a different way.

However, I completely respect your position and appreciate the way you presented your view in a gracious manner. I respect the courage of your convictions to do the hard thing and yet not judge others.

I pray the Lord will take away your sickness and make you well.

Anonymous said...

Catholicism is the enemy. Catholicism controls everything. Don't believe anyone that says otherwise. They might be jesuit agents getting your attention on boogey men that can do nothing without the vatican's say so.

donnie said...

Christmas is just another name for Hanukkah and Jesus celebrated Hanukkah. Seems a bit strange that you are warning people not to do what Jesus did. Have a look at my blog to understand more: hearsayandhermeneutics.blogspot.com

Kayfabe said...

Also wedding ceremonies the way they are conducted today have their roots in paganism as do wedding anniversaries.

Anonymous said...

The Hegelian dialectic has worked so well on Christian unity. Why can we not just worship the one true God each day? The more we divide the more this take place; www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2014/12/21/snaketivity-scene-capitol-lawn/20724221/ By the way, N4TM has removed the blog comments and looks like it may be over. - Don

Anonymous said...

Catholicism is not the enemy, this battle isn't against flesh and blood. It is a spiritual battle and I am sorry but devouring each other other Christmas is really sad.

I don't do Christmas and I have my reasons but I not gonna say someone isn't saved if they do either. Are they mature in the faith or babes, do they exemplify someone who truly has a love for truth or are they comfortable, what sort of fruit is being produced in their lives, do they take the work of salvation and being set apart as a common work or is it sacred and something to never be negligent of?

I couldn't justify putting up a Christmas tree now in a million years but my experience and understanding isn't another's. When I was a child I had a very odd experience with Christmas and now that I am older and have better understanding it frightens me a great deal.

When I was between 5 & 6 years old..this was the first Christmas I can remember. My father went to the forest and chopped down a fresh fir tree and they trimmed it and there it sat in our living room. I don't believe I knew much about Jesus and was at that time unchurched. I was a very sensitive and imaginative girl. This tree with it's lovely glow and decked with silver and gold shining in an almost glorious beauty to me seemed like it must somehow be like God. It must somehow be deserving of my worship. So at 5 years old in total awe and admiration picturing this thing of beauty must be connected to God somehow and I wanted to love God, I begin to bow and prostrate myself before this Christmas tree in my home. My father came in the room and was shocked and horrified. We didn't do Christmas again after that until I was in high school because this experience alarmed my parents but it didn't last.
That was 35 years ago and now I ask myself what function does the Christmas tree serve? We sit on couches and chairs and eat at tables, most things in our home have a functional use but what of this tree at Christmas. I knew as a child what the decked Christmas tree was really for even though the grownups deny it.

This is one experience and it has effected who I am and what I believe today. I pray all who are Christ will know the truth and not hold so tightly to the vain traditions of men but I do not condemn them. If they are His ..none of His sheep will be lost.

Kayfabe said...

Praying for those that need strength in this area

Anonymous said...

Christmas is not Hanukkah. What a silly equation to make.

Hanukkah was the observance of the victory of Israel over the Greek empire when the temple oil miraculously continued through the battle.

Christmas is saturnalia of paganism, a diseased tree of catholicism that sticks its ugly branches into true believing communities.

The two have nothing to do with each other.

Faith Guy said...

Is everyone here familiar with Youtube's husky394xp?(Bryan Denlinger)

He has one of the best ministries in terms of defending the King James Bible, Christian Apologetics, warning about 501c3/end times prophecies/etc, the RCC cult, etc.

However - was disappointed to hear when he did a sermon defending this pagan holiday. Pretty much, he used his own words of wisdom to defend it, and very little scripture to back it up(while wresting other parts of scripture to do so).

Even alot of the brethren(including myself) tried to plea with him how this is a pagan/RCC festivity, but it still fell on deaf ears(and what's even more disappointing is that he spends alot of his ministry exposing the RCC cult).

Like I said though - he has one of the best online ministries contending for the faith.(which is why his support of xmas is really a headscratcher)

Faith Guy said...

Another thing...

There are 2 things which seem to divide Christians...

1) Xmas(as is mentioned in BB's blog)

2) Television - there's been times in internet fellowship groups where I and other brethren would expose this demonic device, and other brethren would step it and say stuff like...

"You're trying to appease your flesh and do the works of the law by abstaining from this", "There are good programs on tv", "Churchianity is wrong for telling the lost world to not watch tv", etc.

Seriously - how is abstaining from tv appeasing your flesh? Isn't it some hypnotic device? Aren't you appeasing your flesh when you're WATCHING IT? Look how many SODOMY programs/messages on just about every program! Who is nagging the lost world to do anything? Aren't we supposed to exercise discernment? Didn't the scriptures say to not put wicked things in front of our eyes? Isn't it the HOLY SPIRIT that guides us what to do?

Anonymous said...

Hello Donnie,

I missed those Scriptures where Jesus celebrated Hanukkah. Would mind pointing them out to me, line and verse? Please understand, I do not intend to be argumentative here, just curious is all. I have a former church acquaintance who brings up the topic of pork often, saying that we are still required NOT to eat it according to the Scriptures. And yet, as I observe their lifestyles, they cannot live up to only but a few of the 613 Mosaic laws, let alone the two greatest commands from the New Testament....Love the LORD your God with all your heart, etc, and Love your neighbor as yourself....

When individuals get "caught up" in all of this Old Testament law keeping, and I am surrounded by many in this neck of woods, then the law becomes more important than God Himself and neighbor, for their love has grown cold and their joy in the LORD has rotted away.

And when I pluck grain on a Sabbath day, just as Jesus disciples did back in their day, we are still condemned to hell by the "law keepers."

Funny thing though, I see them coming and going on the Sabbath just like the rest of us, and working on the Sabbath just like the rest of us, only thing is they preach, preach, preach it, but do not do, do, do as they preach. Did not Jesus say something like "hypocrites or brood of vipers" when describing the double standards of His day?

Perhaps if all of us practiced God, our Holy Father's, first two greatest commands in the New Testament, we would discover that the rest of the law is fulfilled in Jesus, the Christ of all eternity, and our only Savior, alone.....there can be nothing added nor taken away from Jesus' fulfilment.

Better end here, tears are flowing, just knowing Who Jesus truly is.

From another sister in Jesus Christ, I am praying and concerned for your health and welfare, Bible Believer. May our Great and Glorious God comfort you and surround you with His Amazing Love, internally and externally.

Anonymous said...

Catholicism is the enemy. Catholicism is not Christian. Catholicism teaches works for salvation, which leads to hell (Galatians 1:6-9).

Catholicism is from the devil. It is not Christian at all. It is satanic.

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer has taken a strong stand against the celebration of Christmas but yet is gracious about it, not condemning those who are not on the same page.

I rarely post on any blog but those who are so stringent in their stance that they get ugly about calling out those who don't agree as pagans themselves or as some sort of standard that defines who is a Christians and who is not do great damage. They go past the point of warning into territory where they have no authority to tread.

They do far more harm than good. They divide the Body of Christ. I am speaking of those who slice and dice brothers and sisters in Christ self-righteously with their harsh and condemning words. They attack brethren who refute RCC and false teaching and choose to do it in another way other than boycotting the holiday entirely.
They are not hypocrites as some say they are.
One blogger who has stood for truth was beat up so badly by those who do not celebrate Christmas that this person has abandoned their blog.

There is an old saying and it seems appropriate here - there is more than one way to skin a cat. The majority of people don't connect the dots to understand the roots of RC in Christmas. To answer someone who says "Merry Christmas" to be nice and and gets a high and mighty reply that "We don't celebrate Christmas because we are Christians" only causes confusion. This does not make you a holier or more obedient Christian - you deceive yourself.

Do what you will, but please don't put down your fellow brothers and sisters.

That's all I have to say. I wish ill to no one.

jl said...

Dear December 23, 2014 Anon,

I agree with everything you have said. The Holy Spirit led you to write that: that love covers a multitude of sins. May the LORD bless you and I look forward to the day that I will meet the LORD and you, and all the children of the resurrection in glory! Praise God!

Love,

jl, humble slave of EL ELYON

donnie said...

John 10: 22. Jesus and early Christians celebrated Hanukkah for two days (reduced from eight) as was the custom at that time. This was on 25/26 Kislev. When the Roman calender came into general use among them and a complete split from Judaism occurred three-hundred years later it became 25/26 December. The Church then had to dissociate from the Judaic festival and shifted the emphasis to the birth of Jesus on that day. The customs of Hanukkah remained. Was Jesus born on the 25th? Very likely.

donnie said...

And happy Christmas/Hanukkah to all!

Anonymous said...

Steadfast in Faith

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 1Peter 5:6-9

Nothing in this world can give us everlasting salvation, only the shed blood of Jesus can do that. What can wash away my sin, nothing but the blood of Jesus. What can make me whole again, nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Look full in His wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim, in the light of His glory and grace.

Joel

Anonymous said...

Victoria Diagnello posted on N4TM that the atheist can take a break cause us Christians who warn about xmas are doing a good job of tearing it apart.
Well I somewhat agree. The atheist and the elite can take a break because
"Christians" who defend xmas and fight the atheist over the quote ' Happy Holidays' to instead speak blasphemy and say " Merry Christ-Mass" are giving the enemy exactly what he wants!!!!!

Faith

Victoria Di Agnello said...

What I think is that people get tripped up over the semantics when it comes to the definition of 'Christmas'.

For some it has nothing to do with Christ, only decorated pine trees, holly, mistletoe, wreaths, elves, santa claus, presents, and winter related fun. Of course there is the pagan saturnalia, yuletide, solstice, and related stuff to avoid. That includes songs that have nothing to do with the birth of Christ, like 'jingle bells,' etc.

Then there are those who don't engage in any of that (not that making a snow man is idolatry, it's just not part of celebrating the birth of Christ). They celebrate the true meaning of 'Christmas.' It is just a word.

They just celebrate the fact that God the Son came down to earth to seek and save the lost. (no, His life didn't start then, and yes, He is eternal, but that's not in question when we celebrate that He CAME DOWN to earth to save sinners). That He loves us that much. That is what we celebrate and that is the message we share and take advantage of at this time of year, to share it.

And we celebrate it by singing Christ centered hymns about His birth. We send cards and have displays that share that same message. We share the gospel with those that are more open at this time of year. And yes, we may even hold a feast to celebrate.

We might do it on another day, or call it by a different name, due to all of the attacking and hostility that has arisen over the issue of accusing others of paganism just because of a name or a day. For some, even if you sneeze on Dec. 25th they will accuse you of paganism.

I saw all the nasty and ugly comments people have left on the
N4TM blog and am disgusted. I stand with the blog owner there.

People are trying to tear down any reference to the God of Christianity. They have recruited so many covert counter operators posing as believers that the atheists can go on vacation when it comes to these attacks.

They want to lump it all into one term and throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you celebrate Christ's coming to earth by being born in a human body, that is not paganism, and we are not guilty of paganism. So that is not an accusation you can make.

To anyone who has an ax to grind about people singing about the birth of Christ or sending cards with that message and the like - I admonish you.

To anyone who is repulsed by these things and hates them - I rebuke you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ! Only the demons of hell would be repulsed by the announcement of the birth of the Savior! Shame on all of you who do those things.

I can only imagine the demonic attacks and ugly nasty cutting remarks (not truth, but lies) as the masks fall yet further from those that have shown their true faces yet profess to be 'obedient believers'.

For that reason this will be my last comment and I won't be back to witness the false accusations that I'm sure will be hurled against me and those of us who are truly HIS, by those who are not.

Anonymous said...

What some are not understanding or they are disregarding is the fact that N4TM wrote that Christians who have decided to not celebrate xmas have yoked up with the heathen to tear apart christmas. She is calling her brother and sisters pagans! She should be called out! She is being a stumbling block!
And this Lillianna , Mary, Truthinlove, Burning Lamp, Rea, Victoria Diagnello.
Others on here have called you a witch and I am really starting to wonder?
You change your name constantly.
And you use the same exact phrases
as these other witches like Burning Lamp. Like "Throw the baby out with the bathwater" And I just drove by this blog. And the big one liner I won't be commenting on here again. If you are not the same person then you definitely have the same spirit.

Faith

Anonymous said...

I sure am glad someone took the time to educate me about what Christmas is. I had never heard the truth, even from beloved Pastors, who ostensibly "knew" but continued to ascertain every year that Jesus was born at this time along with all of the other Christmas myths. Honoring the King includes telling the truth about Him. If saying that is mean and unkind, so be it, but I am so glad someone was so "mean" to me and let me know so I could choose whether or not it was something I wanted to be involved in. We should definitely share the gospel at this time of year, but we need to make a distinction, because the "baby" Jesus of this time of year is not the true and living Lord. I would never reject the kind intentions of someone who sends a card or says Merry Christmas. If it is someone I know well and care about, I would thank them and take the time to let them know some of the things we have found. If it is a stranger, returning a blessing, such as, the Lord Jesus bless you, or if there is time, use the opportunity to share about the Lord, but I categorically reject telling lies to share the truth or saying things that I truly do not mean.( Merry death of Christ???) It is not all one and the same. If you are a Christian, and you are struggling with this, remember, He IS truth, and the truth is so much more wonderful than telling cultural lies. The truth is a stronghold, a protection, a comfort. These are not unkind words, I have not called anyone names, I have not made horrible accusations. I have merely told the truth. If that is mean, I would hate to see what love is.

Aka Alert said...

Regarding the question about scriptural reference to Jesus and the observance of The Feast of Dedication (i.e. Hanukkah)

John 10:22-24 (KJV)

22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.


Hanukkah

1. The eight-day Jewish festival of lights beginning on the 25th of Kislev and commemorating the rededication of the temple by Judas Maccabaeus in 165 BC, Also called Feast of Dedication, Feast of Lights

Aka Alert said...

p.s. I don't equate Christmas with Hanukkah. I just wanted to note that there is a "chapter and verse" for the Feast of Dedication, and that Jesus was present in Jerusalem, and at the Temple itself, at the time of that feast.

Anonymous said...

How ’bout stickin’ to the main thing, clear biblical doctrine? Believers are divided on this issue and some faithful Christians acknowledge the bad roots of the holiday but choose not to throw the baby out with the bath. They see the holiday which is an established national holiday as an opportunity to share Christ and acknowledge Him as Savior.

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/09/25/mary-queen-of-heaven-whore-of-babylon/

This is the comment on Discerning the World. And ironically the argument was with mom 4truth. Victoria said the same thing as Burning Lamp, who says the same thing as Rae. I looked up Di Agnello. It is cut up sheep! Why choose that name Lilliana?

Faith

In Christ Alone my hope is found said...

I read your blog a lot, thanks for having it, it's very encouraging in these trobulous times. I do have stand at odds with this one though. I'm not fully convinced that setting the day aside to observe the coming of our Savior into the world is intrinsically wrong because others have marred its meaning or added traditions of their own. I do think Romans 14 is a very good scripture to quote though some try to deny it. Scripture itself doesn't deny us the ability to celebrate something nor does it condemn as Romans 14 establishes by the Holy Spirit. Jeremiah speaks of actually carving idols and worshipping them. I don't see true Chrisitams worshipping the Evergreen tree they bring in. I see a lot of people telling other Christians how they should behave but it doesn't seem correct to say that because a pagan used such and such for that a millennia ago you can't use it now or else your risk displeasing the Lord. If you go point out one Pagan thing you can't stop there. Do you still say the days of the week when referring to time? When you say Thursday your actually saying Thor's Day who we all know is a false god. So do you just stop referring to days of the week? Or maybe just say, the fifth day?? We can go on and on about Pagan infiltration into the world. We can't leave this world but we can stand for Christ in it. I believe we can still as Christians as free, slaves of Christ and use wisdom. No Halloween for this guy or his family, nothing holy about that. I don't refer to Easter either, but call it the day we celebrate the resurrection of our Lord. I don't try to tiptoe on the subject but I attempt to apply wisdom and rationally determine what please the Lord. My family wouldn't even call me if it weren't for holidays. So I can see positives in coming together With family and friends while lifting up for all to see the true meaning of this Life which is Christ. For there are no other Gods. All is Christ's and he knows the heart of every believer. The Paganism and consumerism of the holidays is sickening but in the midst of it all I know I am His and He is mine. And I try my best to show the love of Christ to my children and wife. I am a Christian without a church home, baptized in Catholicism, raised in evangelicalism/pentacostalism/tv evangels, outcasted from my family when I departed that doctrine and recently left a IFB church which was turning back to the works of the Law. Pray for me for wisdom and guidance and may the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God bless this blog.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what lengths people will go to, to defend a calendar day.

So people say, "we declare Jesus on Christmas, so go to hell you people against Christmas!!!". How ironic.

Jesus wasn't born on December 25. That easy. The shepherds aren't in the fields in the middle of winter, not even in Israel.

So the date is a LIE. And the atheist/unbeliever/skeptic, know it. They know it. They know that December 25 is a lie. They know that the "Christians" are defending A DAY THAT IS A LIE.

So what kind of witness does that give to the unbeliever of any persuasion? It tells them that you will become a mouth-foaming lunatic to defend a LIE.

MESSAGE TO THOSE THAT INSIST ON BEING MOUTH-FOAMING IN THEIR DEFENSE OF CHRISTMAS:

Why not just go to the Bible? First, there was NOBODY celebrating the birth of Jesus. They spent every day, on the death and resurrection.

Second, in the Bible, as previously stated, no way that Jesus was born on December 25.

Third, Christmas is CATHOLIC. Catholicism is not Christian. Catholicism is a cult that has a false gospel of works that leads to hell. So why would you want to exalt that, if you love Jesus so much?

Fourth, every day is the day to see the truth proclaimed. You can only proclaim truth when everybody is putting up lights and a tree? You're a coward.

Anonymous said...

Victoria,
I believe you are a godly woman who loves Jesus more than any earthly thing, so please do not be offended if others perceive the event called Christmas in a different manner. If we are true to our Holy Scriptures, then we must confess that yes, the birth of our Wonderful Savior took place as a one time even in history. The miracle of a virgin birth conceived by the power of God, the Holy Spirit, of whom not one man can boast that it is something of the flesh. For we, the flesh love to take credit for everything we do, rather than allowing our Great God to receive all of the Glory which is His.

We also know by the Scriptures, that followers of The Way, Jesus Christ, never celebrated Jesus birthdate for we know in part that God would have told us through His Word. The early ekklesia never met together for a Christmas celebration...there is no line and verse to indicate this. And we cannot help but observe that most of what is called Christmas actually points to the flesh; it strokes the "self" in all of us with very little Jesus involved.

I have never ever seen tears for anyone in the 5013. c. church system over the realization that Jesus, the Christ, was born and brutally murdered on that cross for the wicked and evil sins of the individual. We all deserve to go to hell, and the sin that is in us is not taught within organized religion for the church mantra is this (and I have heard it spoken often by the churched):

"Oh, I don't do anything wrong."
Or the blaming other people for our own sins...this happens often within religion....so there is a famine in the land of claiming our own sins and being real before a Holy and Righteous God. We cannot truly fathom the holiness of our God with our finite minds, for we have not seen Jesus as Paul did, thus we have not been humbled with regards to his experience. And all of those so called trips to the third heaven by the charismatics today are nothing but vain imaginations or demons.

Victoria, I love your passion for Jesus, and that's the point. Are we living our lives for Him daily, or is religion just a side show for public display just a few days a year?

If Bible Believer allows here, I want to share a few observations concerning the state of our nation, the mentality involved, especially this time of year. The day before "Christmas" I had the privilege of going out and about to purchase groceries for our family. I try to do this chore every week and a half or so, so this was my regular outing, nothing special about it in my book. The towns were bustling with business like usual and many "Merry Christmases" were said which doesn't bother me one way or the other. People can say "Merry Christmas", "Happy holidays", or just plain "Nothing" if they choose, it is all neutral to me. Early on in my faith in Jesus alone for my salvation, I used to get pretty disgusted when people did not say Merry Christmas to me when leaving the store, for I had bought into the Pat Robertson, fake Christian Coalition movement at that time and felt it was part of my responsibility to "defend Christmas."

Anonymous said...

This time of year, Christmas, is simply another day of the year. To say "Merry Christmas" to people this time of year is easy, for it is universally understood and there is basically no offense. But, here comes the interesting reality of it all, to casually call out Jesus' Name when visiting with people or saying "Praise King Jesus" this time of year gives people the squirmies. And when your heart bursts forth "Glory to the Incarnate KING JESUS", the strange looks you receive from even the churched, makes you wonder about the state of Christianity in this country.

Do I love Jesus? You bet I do, for of it were not for Him, I would not be here on this earth in the flesh. He saved me physically and most importantly, spiritually, so I look forward to being with Him someday and seeing all of you folks there too.

Yes, you too, JL.....it will be an honor to meet you in the presence of Jesus.

As for Christmas, most of them have been a time of complaining about the President, the Democrats and the gays and lesbians, giving gifts that people don't want or need, and a whole lot of family conflicts....so much for all of that peace on earth thing, right?

Relatives especially expect you to love the gift they have given you and complain when you don't say thank-you or write them a thank-you note.....then you see the gift you gave them on their rummage sale four months down the road.....so much hypocrisy this time of year....yes, it's Christmas.

And to think that our Heavenly Father gave us His Free Gift, no purchase necessary, of salvation to a hurting and dying world, His Son, our Savior Jesus Christ. Oh, how God loves us!

Blizzard of Bugs said...

If I am reading correctly. The ones speaking boldly against Christmas because of it being pagan are wrong to do so? Is that correct? On what scriptural grounds should they not speak against something that is not of the truth? I do not speak for the others that speak against Christmas but for myself and my convictions on these matters. It sounds like to me that those who speak against Christmas, are being accused of being lumped together with the people who do not believe that Christ Came in the flesh?! Is this the accusation? This is simply untrue. Yes there can be people who deal harshly with this subject. And cause unnecessary division to those without knowledge. But it is a fact of scripture that people who celebrated ungodly things such as the pagan idolatry of Christmas thought they were doing right towards God but they were not. For this reason God sent the prophets to Israel because they were worshipping God with their own inventions instead of being obedient to his word. If Christmas is so important why did not our Lord Jesus Christ exhort us to celebrate it? I do not read in the scriptures to remember perpetually his birth by way of a festival. I read that we are to remember his death until he comes. My prayer is that we turn to his word and stop making the word of God of none effect because of our traditions. It is no wonder there is confusion. May the grace of God teach us to deny ungodliness. Also, I pray that the love of the Lord Jesus fill you all and that you will have joy in the Holy Ghost.

William Sculley said...

Considering that Christmas was celebrated in the spring or summer originally in the city of Bethlehem, your argument loses steam quickly. Also, have a joyous celebration of the Incarnation of the Word, whatever day you celebrate it on. That's the reason for Christmas in every true Church. Not the solstice. They were already celebrating the Annunciation in the late Spring when they set the date for Christmas. They just set Christmas 9 months after the Annunciation, since the Annunciation was when Jesus was conceived in the womb of the Theotokos

Bible Believer said...

Thanks everyone for the prayers for my health and the readers weighing in with the information about Christmas as a false pagan holiday. I agree about the Watchtower honoring the tower of Babel. The "goddess" is under many names, and all over the place. You are correct anon Babylon is rife. They have the Santa Claus [Satan Claws] yes watching their children now with little helpers to serve as would be spies [Elf on the Shelf] "He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you are awake". What a way to lie to a child and turn them from God.

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

I pray too more people wake up to the falseness of Christmas and people will want to remain loyal to God and keep His Word.

I still believe they want to microchip us, but agree with you about the deception of the Rapture and all the rest. I of course lean towards the Pope being the Antichrist, and do not look for the "big bad world leader" but know many Christians may differ with me on this seeing him as the would be false prophet.

Christmas is really the holiday of Babylon. Everyone celebrates it from pagan to atheist. Even religious Jews who used to forsake it, participate in it unofficially more and more. It's a holiday that all religions are joining more and more.


Bible Believer said...


I agree the new world order is the old order of Babyon. There isn't much NEW about the NEW WORLD ORDER.

**************

I agree anon that Catholics are not the adversary. We need to witness to them. As my long time readers know I was born into the Catholic church. They are just the head of the multi-legged octupus, with plenty of false churches and religions circled around them.

I had a friend send me oil of oregano. How does one use it? {this is a sincere question}

I do think it is important to warn about Christmas but as you know I do not want to bring strife, even as I want people to know the truth. With this one, I know I have to listen to the Lord's leading on speaking of these truths. It is not an easy one.

Donnie I have never heard of Christmas being Hannukah.

Yes there is some paganism in wedding ceremonies, are you thinking of the rings? Kayfabe? This one I see as harmless, I suppose I don't see a connection to a false god, or religion but would have to research that.

Don, I don't think she took the article or it's comments down, it was still up, she put some scripture up over it.

I don't see everyone being unsaved who celebrates Christmas. I believe many are. I may ask in my mind, "Why haven't they been shown what I have?" I do not know their thought processes surely God does. There are a few fellow Christians I warned in kindness but stuck to Christmas. Ah the pressures on this one are great. It is a hard thing to work through, I know it took me time. I guess I grant for some it is a matter of time, for others I know Christmas can lure in greatly, they see it as a source of "joy" and "goodness" how can it be something bad? I too think are they mature in the faith or babes? Thank you for sharing your experience with the Christmas tree. They sing songs to Christmas trees, many are lured by their beauty. I remember being a child, wanting to crawl up under the Christmas tree branches and look up at all the lights and this was a "religious" experience of sorts, I didn't prostrate or see it as God but I remember being carried away too. I would cry when the tree was taken down.

Bible Believer said...

I pray more come away from the Christmas trees and traditions of men as well. Christmas entices through the senses, the trees the lights, etc. I know people need strength to break away from it all. I pray they rest in God and pray for His direction.

I agree Christmas and Hannukah [yes I know I am probably spelling it wrong] have no connection. Jews actually were the last hold-outs against Christmas.

I am disappointed to find out husky394xp follows Christmas. I like his videos and will still watch, but yes, I have asked myself how can someone be so discerning about so many things but still stick to the Pre-Trib Rapture and Christmas? I will pray the Lord will show him the truth on both as time goes on. I forget the topic but his mind was changed I believe on KJV Onlyism ala Ruckman and he shared this.

This may be a dumb question but I thought Hanukkah was a later Jewish holiday, ie it is not in the Old Testament. Am I getting this wrong? I don't trust anything that is of Talmudic Judaism. It is not a holiday I recall Jesus celebrating either.

Hebrew Roots and Law-keeping are great errors. I have warned about them on this blog some time ago.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/07/part-one-deception-using-judaism-titus.html

Unlike Christmas if a Christian decides to CHOOSE to celebrate Passover, or a OT Jewish holiday there is some biblical foundation, there isn't for Christmas.

Thanks for your prayers regarding my health, I am still facing some acute illness but am improving.
Catholicism is Satanic, we have to be careful to love and care the people and help get them out with the gospel. I praise God daily to escape from that snakepit.

I thanks for stating I am being generous. I know I took time myself to depart from Christmas. We have to judge what is being done out of love or not while of course sticking to the truth. I do not want someone to give up blogging and good articles because of disagreement in this area. I hope they can research and pray for themselves. Many decisions need God's leading.

I am not rude when people tell me Merry Christmas. Sometimes I've had the time, place and calling to tell a friend or someone I do not celebrate it, but in a store, running along the way, sometimes even I've had to smile or be polite. Many of the people mean well, and mean no harm. One has to give a message too often that is ready to be received.

Thanks JL

I don't think there is much proof for Jesus being born on the 25th, most bible scholars say judging from actions of sheepherders etc, it was most likely Sept.

Thank you Joel.

I agree Faith.

Victoria, I still stand against Christmas. If someone sends a card with verses from Luke in it on Dec 26th, I'm not going to quibble with them however I will tell the truth about Christmas and its origins. I am sorry you feel the necessity to leave.

I don't think N4TM considers me a pagan. I still consider her a Christian sister even if we are disagreeing here. She may have gotten emotional in a statement I have done it. I hope Victoria is not Burning Lamp, Burning Lamp was always giving me this watered down rhetoric and is the reason I had to leave Discerning the World as a commenter including many other reasons.

Burning Lamp did have that as a key phrase. There are people who "work" Christian and other message boards. Astroturfers etc.

Bible Believer said...

I wrote a whole post but internet went down...sorry about that. Many of you have good comments here.

I did notice Burning Lamp wrote a comment defending Christmas, saying the Christians took what was evil and turned it to good. This is what Jesuits and others wrote all the time. It is a lie and contrary to what Jesus preached.

"King James Bible
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for the information about the Feast of Dedication, I will have to study that one more.

William, the Annunciation as an observance is not in scripture. That is Orthodox/Catholic church tradition.

Anon I glad you praise Jesus in public :) God bless.

donnie said...

Among other names Hanukkah was called the Feast of Dedication and the Festival of Lights - and Christmas. The Sages, Herod the Great, the Pharisees and Judah the Prince tried to suppress all knowledge of salvation and a Messiah being born on that day. For that reason names were changed to hide the Festival. In the time of Jesus it was celebrated on the 25th and 26th of Kislev. Early Christians (who were Jews) kept these dates until the Julian calender was adopted for Christianity by Constantine. Jesus "partied' at Hanukkah. Did those that claim they follow Jesus do the same? Do you know what you are supposed to do?
Modern Pagans adopted their customs from all over but especially from Judaism and Christianity. Their things did not come into being out of nothing.
Bethlehem in Judea was not a functional city when Jesus was born. He was born in the major walled city of Bethlehem in the Galilee. Ten kilometers from Nazareth and you can comfortably wear a t-shirt in December. It never gets really cold.

In Christ Alone my hope is found said...

I hope no one goes shopping at a supermarket anymore either. For in doing so you are supporting companies that are run by Masons, Luciferians and the like. You are giving them your money for a poor product that has preservatives and synthietics in it. And since God never made synthetics and its not commanded for man to use them than your sinning. ...See the double standard. Why doesn't everyone live as Christ and leave everything. Why doesn't everyone attempt to 'live off the land' as best they could. Forsake every grocery store because that appeals to your laziness to not forage for yourself. Its funny to me how many Christians on here really get upset if one doesn't see things the same. Some of you are standing in judgement of another mans servant...so because you have time to 'Google' something on an Internet that has became available only recently, you are now more spiritual. Your knowledge came by way of internet, wow something not written about in the bible, developed by pagans, yet you use, to honor Christ by condemning Christians. After reading some of the posts on here I cannot but help to come away with the fact that there is still a lot of self righteousness in Christians. And instead trying to get a splinter out of everyone's eye yank the planks out of your own.

Anonymous said...

BB, the comments on N4TM have been disabled and the last time she posted was the 21st. I think our sister in Jesus Christ has been deeply hurt over this issue. To the ones that do not understand why I pointed to Romans 14 (also in 1 Corinthians 8), a kind explanation follows; Some believers would accuse other believers of worshipping the god of saturn or the sun god, when to the accused there is only one true God (Isaiah 45:5&6) and the other gods simply do not exist. - Don

Discerning This Time said...

Bible Believer, you said, "I don't think N4TM considers me a pagan. I still consider her a Christian sister even if we are disagreeing here."

Yes, my thoughts exactly! I hope she does not give up on her blog. She is my Christian sister, too, and I pray for her even though we may not agree on some things. I have already been down that road with three other sisters in the Lord. They walked away from me because we disagreed on something in the Bible that had nothing to do with Salvation. It hurt me terribly. I thought it was all so stupid that they turned their back on me just because I couldn't agree with them on something. It wasn't anything to do with a salvation issue. These things shouldn't be!

In Christ Alone my hope is found said...

I think my previous posts may have been using self justification and manipulation to prove a point of celebrating Christmas to be ok..as a truth I am in a state of confusion over this one. Sickened to my core for about a year after discovering the roots of the holiday, nevertheless I feel I may be attempting to drown my feelings with a strong dose of compromise. Brothers and sisters on here I am turned inside out and am in tears trying to wrestle with what pleases the Lord while trying to raise a family and have a wife of 15 years who barely notices me. If I attempt to take my families holidays how much more shall I be rejected...I have no other family, for they forsakes me and only acknowledged my existence on holidays. I couldn't even bare to go to my parents house yesterday during their Christmas celebration because of the rejection I feel because I am no longer of their 'religion' which is mostly filled with tv preachers. My life is an abortion of a kind and I feel I have nothing to hold to but Christ. I am a sinner of the biggest sort and feel right now that someone telling me not celebrat Christmas is like trying to clean the dirt from nails when I'm still in the mud reaching for the hand of The Lord to help me out of my pit. I don't know always the right thing to do and I'm trying to with all my heart to turn from my sin but my chains weigh heavy on me and I have become weak. Please ray for my family and myself that God would send his Grave and mercy and heal me and save me from myself so that I can see clearly what is holy and acceptable to the Lord as it seems so many of you have. I live with a broken heart trying to find healing, please pray to the Lord for me for my own heart is overcome with sorrow.

Bible Believer said...

Don, I don't think born again Christians worship Saturn who celebrate Christmas. I think they are mistaken about the holiday in believing it is Christian, but God will know their hearts about who they are worshipping. I pray and hope He will convict them about Christmas. I hope she is not hurt. I did not mean any hurt, I hope I did not make things worse, but had to stand my ground on the issue. I am praying for her and her blog.

In Christ Alone, that is a bit silly, because one could take that logic to embrace all paganism, "Oh I may as well go to the UU solstice ceremony since the sun shines on me as well". I used to hear that from Catholics, when refusing paganism in their religion, they would tell me you have to use words like Thursday, you have to shop at stores or use products owned by Freemasons. God expects our best. I try to buy my food local and work my way up. This is more doable, in the summer months so yes at times I am stuck with regular grocery stores. I don't think the ones I go to most are owned by Freemasons, they aren't National chains. I hope they are not but even then God knows I own no land and the ability to move to a self sustaining community is not available to me right now. LOL, I try to buy more wholesome food. I am allergic to MSG which means every fast food chain except for Subway is off limits. I also try to avoid GMOs.

I am no one's judge. All I share here is what I have discovered about Christmas. My conviction about Christmas came from discovering Jer 10, reading the Bible myself. I found the verse and still remember the day. I had been on a few Christian message boards but was not reading any heavy discernment websites by then.Rapture Ready wasn't going to tell me to forgo Christmas.

I am praying too. I don't want N4TM to give up her blog. I've had people disagree with me too on various issues. I am sorry you had three sisters in the Lord walk away from you. I have Christian sisters where we have disagreed on things. Obviously those who leave Christmas are a minority. IRL I do not tell those who are Christians and still celebrate Christmas to hit the road. I do share my testimony and opinions but try not to hit anyone over the head with it. I have loved Christian friends IRL who still adhere to the holiday. Would I rather they didn't? Sure, but it does not change my love for them.

Bible Believer said...

In Christ alone, please pray to God and ask Him to show you. by the way I am sure about Christmas but having other issues I am having to take to God. Please pray to God to avoid compromise. I am sorry you are having difficulties in your marriage and I know raising a family today is very difficult. I will pray for you. My household has struggles too. Sometimes I fear us ending up in the streets but then have to pay attention to my own emotions before God and trust in Him. I know rejecting the families holiday can bring a great price especially to those whose spouses will not understand and children at home complicates it all. I have been rejected by my family for my religious beliefs, maybe I will post on this more though I did an article about it sometime ago.
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2014/04/do-your-relatives-hate-you-for-being.html

I lost just about everyone. My name is mud in my family. I pray to folks here to pray for me. I had the test of having God tell me to depart from some wicked people as well which is part of the picture.

I am not saying your wife and children may hate you with this one, you could say this is my conviction and they may continue on with holidays, so I hope you can have peaceful solutions with your immediate family.

I am dealing with strong isolation, and well it has been a test of sorts.
My family thinks I am crazy for being a born again Christian. I witnessed to them once or twice and did not bible thump but I think my mere presence to them became an abomination. There is a lot of wickedness in my family of origin too. My in laws are all dead and my husband has only one living relative who lives far away. So I feel for you for feeling forsaken by your family. I have had the division come in already. Mine believes I am a hell bound heathen and a betrayer for leaving the Catholic church. This was true when I was a 18 year old UU, and even more true now that I call out the Catholic church as the harlot and as a born again Christian.

I am sorry about your life feeling so awful. I am in that place too, where I feel Jesus Christ is the only Person keeping me going. I am very poor, have bad health, lost my family and just about everything. I may post about this issue. Like "What if your life is going bad"? A lot of today's Christianity and culture judges people on the "quality" of their life not their character or relationship with God. I fail by all those measures. I have a loving husband and friends, but physical life kind of went down the tubes long ago.

Maybe for now you definitely have bigger fish to fry with chains weighing heavily on you. I have some of those struggles as well. A sadness about life that can hit me and it's disappointments and praying to God not to let it lead me into sin. I will pray for God to send you mercy and grace. Ask for His leading and What He would have you do. One thing when we do grow closer to God, one can lose family and other relationships. I know it is painful. Sometimes I have wondered myself why life seems so full of loss but God is there to comfort us in our sorrow. I will pray for you.

2 Cor 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Gwen said...

Thank you for sharing that, BB. Our lives have much in common and I have come to the same conclusion as you. Was just thinking about all of this today. Your words encouraged me and came right on time, Praise God.

Anonymous said...

Because the subject of Hannukah was brought up, I wanted to share that there is a connection with Christmas and there is prophetic significance, but not what you might think. Antiochus defiled the temple on the winter solstice, or at xmas. 3 years later, the temple was reclaimed and rededicated at the same time. The eight day festival was a Sukkot or Feast of Tabernacles celebration, because they could not celebrate that year at the proper time. When the Maccabees had power, they combined the office of High Priest and King, which is anti-christ, and the very thing Saul and Uzziah were punished for. Christ alone may sit as both Priest and King. Most look at Antiochus as a type of anti-christ, but so are the later Maccabees. The Pharisees of Jesus' day were looking for a Maccabee, not Jesus, so when Jesus appeared in the temple at Hannukah where tradition held that Messiah would come, they rejected Him, and sought to stone Him with the defiled altar stones.(Tradition also held that the Messiah would tell them what to do with the defiled stones.)So, Christmas and Hannukah are connected, and they both typify a rejection of Christ. Jesus said that He is the light of the world, and He walks among the candlesticks (menorahs). The Menorah in the temple was a menorah, not a hanukkia, 7 vs. 9 lights. The hannukia's central candle is the "shamash" which is also the name of a canaanite false god. I think it is important to study Hannukah, and remember it, because Jesus was there and did celebrate it "at the temple" but without the hannukia. Have some latkes, get out the Bible and study to show yourself approved, but the Hannukah celebrations today look nothing like what took place in Bible times, and the prophetic significance is that anti-christ has always used the hegelian dialectic of laying a snare from either side.

Kayfabe said...

So my Christmas was eventful. I have a JW friend who blasted me for celebrating it because I joined family and friends for a meal even though I don't take part in trees, decorations or presents. I simply told my friend that they are right but that not celebrating or celebrating Christmas is the least of their problems. I am rethinking even limited involvement. Here is why, my mother asked me to say a prayer for the meal which I did and all was well. However, she then prayed and being Catholic she asked us to remember those that have passed in our family but then also said in the prayer that their spirits were present with us. I think full abstainment is best. There is just almost no way around being yoked to this pagan holiday even if we try to minimize our participation.

Mom4Truth said...

Love and appreciate your insight. Thank you. Have a couple of questions, please. One: John 10 references the Feast of Dedication and mentions Christ standing on Solomon's Porch, but doesn't say He was celebrating it. As you suggest, His presence could have been prophetic to the typology you've wisely laid out. Were you then being sarcastic when saying He 'celebrated' it?
Secondly, why would Christ seek to celebrate something that is of oral and Talmudic significance, something that the viper Pharisees upheld, and something, again as you pointed out, was of anti-christ typology? And perhaps you've answered this and I'm missing an implied point.

Thank you for your diligence to study and providing some meat.

Anonymous said...

As you know, America is not a Christian nation. Are you going to stand your ground on that issue too? Let me know where you are going because I think you will have to leave the planet. We are to be in the world, but not of the world. Salt and Light wherever we are. In Acts 17, Paul did not walk around Mars' hill. He walked right up there and proclaimed Jesus Christ. To me the bottom line is you would say that I celebrate Christmas, which would mean I worship pagan gods that do not exist. I say I proclaim Jesus Christ whenever and wherever I happen to be. - Don

Aka Alert said...

Bible Believer said: “I thought Hanukkah was a later Jewish holiday, ie it is not in the Old Testament. Am I getting this wrong? I don't trust anything that is of Talmudic Judaism. It is not a holiday I recall Jesus celebrating either.”
Donnie said: “Jesus "partied' at Hanukkah”
***
BB is right; the Feast of Dedication was established during the intertestamental period. However, like I mentioned earlier, it is included in New Testament Scripture and Jesus attended the feast (John 10:22-40 for full context).

Jewish people from all over the country always traveled (“went up”) to Jerusalem to attend the various feasts. Jesus did likewise, first with his family, later with his disciples, and sometimes alone.

Luke 2:42 - And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
John 2:13 - And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 5:1 - After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 7:10 - But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
John 7:14 - Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
Etc.

Since Jesus was from up north in Nazareth, and a lot of his ministry was spent in the region Galilee, any trip to Jerusalem was an effort. Of course, everything Jesus did was deliberate. He wasn’t at the feast just because he happened to be there, it was because he chose to be there.

What his presence means, whether he approved or not…my personal opinion is that he wouldn’t be there and tolerate (not pass judgment on) the feast of dedication, if it was “anti-christ”. We don’t have any words of judgment from him. I think we should be careful and stick with what the Bible reveals about it, and not refer to secular sources of information as other posters have depended on to draw conclusions.

I do disagree that Jesus “partied” at any feast… at least as we understand that term today (drinking, carousing, and jesting). Jesus wouldn’t have ever acted like that, as he was sinless. Based on scripture, I believe that Jesus was present with sober composure, dignity, wisdom and divine power.

Anonymous said...

I've been thinking about this nearly constantly since the N4TM article. I read every verse mentioned in the discussion, thought, prayed, even fasted, which is not easy to do when preparing meals and snacks for a family. Then, when this article came out, I clicked on the catholic calendar article link, and was totally surprised to see my own comment from a few years ago. I realized that I have changed a lot in the last couple years. For one thing, I used to put out nativity sets, some which were toys, so the children could act out the story. Now I truly dislike them. The Protestant / Evangelical world rejects icons and Mary worship the rest of the year, but in remembering "the real meaning of Christmas" it is somehow acceptable.

So at first I was seeing it as a liberty issue. I was not sure about the Jeramiah 10 verses, was seeing it as a carved idol. But once I went back to the spot I was reading in my regular Bible reading in Joshua, I was really convinced and convicted. God called them and us to be set apart, holy, different.

Now, how do I live this? I was not brave or obedient enough to take down the tree, dispose of gifts, and uninvite people to brunch on Christmas morning. I was thinking that I need to be more upfront with my husband about how I'm a radical follower of Jesus Christ. I've kept a lot of my thoughts and what I'm learning to myself. I never initiate watching tv or movies on my own, but when he wants me to watch with him, I usually do, although none of it is passes the test of "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things." So I was thinking to go with the flow for the rest of December, then talk to him about how I'd rather not watch tv anymore. Then I was thinking about talking about the holidays issue at a later date.

But it is going to be really hard. That was made very clear to me this week. A couple days ago he told me he rejected my simplified Christmas gifts for the children ( needed clothes, books, plus one group toy) and he went out and bought them a bunch of stuff, and also was moody about it, because, as the housewife, I am expected to get good gifts for everyone. Now he also wants me to get family portraits done so next year he can send out a photo card to people he works with.

I do not want to be like the rich young ruler who goes away sad. It is not possessions I am rich in, but I am rich in family. I get to homeschool and get to stay home to raise these children. I've got a good, hardworking, honest, faithful husband. But he has already threatened to take away homeschooling before, and I'm not sure how much will be taken away from me if I'm radically obeying the bible, whatever the cost. I know he will not take it well. When I talk about watching less movies, he says I'm not so bad, I just want to relax and watch something with my wife. One more example, last week we were heading out somewhere in the afternoon, and he looked at me and my daughter, and told us that one of us would need to change because he was not going out with both of us with long hair and long skirts looking like religious weirdos. So I changed into jeans. But illustrating that appearances, and not being different than the world really matters.

Does anyone have a testimony to share, or any wisdom? Still not completely sure how much to submit to my husband, and how much to make a stand.

Joy

Anonymous said...

You are right Don, the U.S. is not a Christian nation! ( Another fun factoid that has been obscured from most Christians.) I have to admit, I do not know if Jesus was actually "celebrating" Hannukah, but I would have to assume that He was, as He was there walking in Solomon's Porch. They ask the question "Tell us plainly..." I think Jesus was actually hoisting them by their own petard, as they had already rejected his miracle of healing the man born blind, so... here he is, according to their own tradition, and they still reject Him. I don't think it was important for Christians to observe Hannukah, because in Acts 14 it is not listed as part of what is required for gentile believers. With that said, though, Christians should know what it is,and how it applies to prophecy. It is mentioned in the book of Daniel,and has significance for the end times, I believe. "T"

Anonymous said...

Hi BB, glad you're feeling a little better! As for the oregano oil, 5 drops under the tongue or mixed with juice. I take it as soon as I feel something coming on, and usually only have to take it once or twice. So you don't have to take it as an ongoing thing. Will be praying for you...
God Bless

donnie said...

A green 'tree' is brought into the house at midwinter for a very good reason. It provides oxygen in a tightly closed house that has fires, lamps and candles burning. It gives 'life'. From there the association with Jesus. Jesus gives 'life'. The tree gives life to those homes that take it in (the other families died or got sick). Simple.
Herod the Great and the Pharisees/Sages abhorred the Feast of Dedication. The Pharisees hated the Maccabees as did the later Jewish leadership. Ordinary people, including the then Jewish Christians kept the custom alive and later forced the leaders to adopt Hanukkah and Christmas.
Jesus drank and it was (and still isn't) a sin. Again it is 'life'. In the wine was the healthy yeast for baking bread. Four glasses of wine you shall drink at Passover to provide enough yeast for the year's bread. Also two glasses of wine at night helps prevent strokes as it improves the laminar flow of blood.
Jesus was an Israeli (really, He lived in a Jewish state called Israel not Galilee). Israeli Jews party, and they party hard. On the eighth day of Sukkot He, and His friends badly needed water.
On and on.
Keep an open mind. Study. It is truly an incredible journey.

Anonymous said...

BB, I will be quiet on this subject now. I do consider you my sister in Jesus Christ, even though we differ in some points that are of minor importance. I bid you peace. Psalm 25:5 - Don

In Christ Alone my hope is found said...

After my own research, and reading Jeremiah again, I have come to the conclusion that Christmas is indeed a pagan holiday adapted by the RCC. It has infiltrated mainstream Christianity to the core. It seems the the Catholic Church loves to mix pagan culture with their version on Christianity. Like the movie The Matrix, no, I'm not endorsing it, just drawing a correlation, that we are all born into a prison for our minds, but most importantly our souls. I used to ponder why God would place me in a country where 'Christianity' abounds while many others are born into pagan cultures. But I realized America is just like every other country, following pagan practices with a Christian label. It's hard to see the forest through all the trees! But with the Lord as my strength I will stand against the Un-holydays from now on. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig!

In Christ Alone my hope is found said...

I also noted Isaiah 14:12-13
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

It seems Satan Claws likes the Sides of the North too, as that is where he resides all year.

In Christ Alone my hope is found said...

Donnie, I think your looking pas the real reason for these traditions...if another Christian who is a recovering alcoholic see you partake of wine wouldn't it encourage him to do the same though his faith is weak. Therefore it becomes a sin to him and a stumbling block placed in his path, which makes it a sin to you too.

Revelation 1:6 says the He has made us kings and priests unto God

While proverbs says:
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. (‭Proverbs‬ ‭31‬:‭4-5‬ KJV)

Anonymous said...

I am very certain of this, Jesus did not "party" hard and get drunk as one poster suggested. He also did not bring a green tree into His home. In the Bible, yeast or leaven, is a symbol for sin,hence, unleavened bread at Passover, as, Jesus, the bread from heaven, did not have the leavening of sin in His nature. The Bible uses symbols consistently throughout, so, what is in the Old Testament concealed is in the New Testament revealed. Jesus is the Way, the truth, and the life, no green trees, wine or leaven required. Studying is a good thing, just be sure it is the Bible you are studying! History can be helpful for insight, but it must always be subjected to what the Scripture says! The mention of Sukkot is interesting too, because the water ritual they do on the last day I don't remember seeing in the Torah, but, Jesus was still there and proclaimed Himself to be the living water. Another tradition fulfilled perhaps??? Gotta go study!

By the way BB, I hope you are feeling better. I am praying for you. "T"

Anonymous said...

donnie, you should keep an open mind and study..... THE BIBLE.

"Christmas" is from the devil, aka, catholicism.

William Sculley said...

Here's the problem with not including Hanukkah: For Protestants it might have been "inter-testamental". However, for the people of the time, the Feast of Dedication was considered God-ordered from the Scriptures. I say this because, with the exception of the Sadducees (who used the Torah--The first five books of the Old Testament), the "Bible" of the time was a collection of scrolls called the Septuagint. The people spoke, wrote, and read in Greek. This was to the disdain of the Sadducees, who, in a fashion like unto the Roman Catholic elders of the early Reformation, believed that Hebrew was the only language Scriptures should be read in.

to keep this post short, the Septuagint can be shown being used by the Apostles in several quotes, where they look nothing like the Hebrew text, and direct imitations of the Greek Septuagint. This Septuagint was widely used, and was also heavily favored among the early Church, the majority of which also spoke and read Greek, like Timothy, Paul, and Luke.

The early Church used the entirety of the Septuagint of the time, and had no concept of the "400 years of silence" that had supposedly occurred before. Chanukah (the Hebrew spelling) is a feast based on passages from the books of the Maccabees, which tell the story of how the Greeks desecrated the temple by sacrificing a pig on the altar. After the defeat of the Greeks, the people of Israel decided that, like Ezra before, the first thing which should be fixed in the city of Jerusalem was the temple.

The feast of Dedication was instituted in the book as a remembrance of how God honored their faith in Him and made one day's worth of oil burn for the required 7 days (see the book of Leviticus). The Menorah is lit each day, one candle each day, and a prayer of thanksgiving would be made to YHWH for His providence to His people, and for His personal provision to each person praying throughout the last year.

Part two coming...

William Sculley said...

The real problem with Christmas, if you pare down the things added by the secular world to something that they DON'T TRULY UNDERSTAND, is that it takes a true love of God to celebrate Christmas. Let me explain: at Christmas, this year, my church service began dark. There were no lights anywhere, very much like an Easter service.

The elder came out bearing a candle, from which we each lit our candles off of his candle. This very physical practice shows something about the Nativity that is utterly lacking from the world: Christ is the true Light of the world, and the only light we can carry is that light that we receive from Him. That's why we have candles. They are all lit off of Christ's light.

The Icons of the Nativity show us the entire story in a pictographic way. Sure, it isn't in words, but what do you do for those who have no written languages? You make pictures! That's why we have Icons! They tell the story of Christ! They tell us Who Christ is!

Some Icons display Christ on His throne, holding the book of the Law in His hands as the final judge. Others show Him holding up the cross (not hanging from the Cross, but holding it up) because He took the cross and, in becoming the ultimate sacrifice, He became the ultimate death of Death itself.

In the Icons of the Resurrection, He is shown stepping on Satan, putting Satan himself under his foot while he pulls Adam and Eve from the ground, showing the greatest message of all: Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down Death by death, and upon those in the tombs He has bestowed life!

The first people to have problems with Icons weren't Christians. Christians lived with Icons for hundreds of years. They have dug up churches and synagogues from the first century and found Icons everywhere. It kept on in the Church until the Muslims changed the world. That's right, your dislike of Icons comes from Islam, not the Bible. Muslims were the first to hate Icons because they believed Christ was only a good man. Not God, just a man.

So when you have a problem with Icons or Nativity sets, think on that. Icons are markers showing the life of the Church and of Christ. And they point to Christ.

Anyways, this post is getting too long. I'm cutting it off here without a good ending.

I must say this in closing though: I like that BB doesn't censor my posts even though we have massively different theological points of view. Even though I disagree with a lot of what is said here, it is a sign of respect that I rarely see in fundamentalist circles, and since I come from a Fundamentalist upbringing, it is really refreshing to see that the attitude that drove my mom and I away from the Fundamentalist church I grew up in isn't everywhere. BB, you're in my prayers each night. May you go in peace and the love of God.

Christos Gennatai! Christ is born!

jimmy f said...

so glad Victoria exposed herself. I cant believe you guys didn't see it with the "mary white" c'mon hullo... Vatican co-intel pro named what? virgin mary white as snow...so obvious paleeese... anyway....now we've got donnie

William Sculley said...

You guys who say Christmas is a pagan holiday are quite ignorant of the fact that the Nativity wasn't originally celebrated on December 25th. The actual original SET date is January 7th, which the historians convert from the Julian calender to mean December 25th. But Nativity celebrations predate the setting of that date.

The original nativity celebrations began in the third century in the city of Bethlehem in a church that was built upon the cave Christ was born in. They took place somewhere in the spring or early summer (the date is not given by the sources we have. We only know that they would have the celebration shortly after they were able to let their flocks out at night.

PS: All of you who are saying that Catholic Church is the devil will be REAL surprised when the actual devil comes. He's so much different than you expect. Better get ready. Comparing men to Satan makes the evil one quite perturbed and hurts his pride, especially when you compare someone who confesses Christ as Lord to Satan.

Bible Believer said...

LOL yeah we have Donnie. I saw Mary White's posts and though they were phony. Interesting about Mary White.

The internet is full of the astroturfers.

I was on a message board for some time where I figured out 80% of it was phony baloneys.

Some of them worked other arenas too like it was a job.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Don.

Don I am used to dealing with other Christians [ where I differ on Christmas. I still consider you a brother in Christ, just please pray about this subject and ask God to lead you into truth on it. God bless. Thanks for your peace-making words.

Bible Believer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

Thanks anon for the oil of oregano information :) God bless.

Bible Believer said...

Donnie, I'll study the Feast of Dedication but I'm not buying into Christmas. I wonder about your praise of alcohol but it seems you are from Israel which being a different culture you may see it differently. What religion are you? Are you a Messianic Jew? A Christian Zionist?

Bible Believer said...



Remember this verse too:

Proverbs 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

William Sculley said...

And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Anonymous said...

Joy - I am praying for you.
Your sister in Christ - Sue

Anonymous said...

I am sure that Jesus drank plenty of "wine". Unfermented wine, or grape juice.

Besides, the alcoholic wine in the bible had much less alcohol than today's wine.

Then there is also the issue of not being a stumbling block to other Christians.

And as far as Jesus changing water into wine. It would not make sense for Jesus to create a alcoholic substance which could cause others to become intoxicated. Jesus made them fresh grape juice.

William Sculley said...

I am sure that Jesus drank plenty of "wine". Unfermented wine, or grape juice.

Besides, the alcoholic wine in the bible had much less alcohol than today's wine.

Then there is also the issue of not being a stumbling block to other Christians.

And as far as Jesus changing water into wine. It would not make sense for Jesus to create a alcoholic substance which could cause others to become intoxicated. Jesus made them fresh grape juice.

December 29, 2014 at 2:24 AM

Hate to break it to you, but the Greek word "Ainos" always means wine. It does not mean juice. The Greek word literally means "the liquid product of the grape which has been fermented to contain alcohol".

To top it off, in a society where drinking wine was incredibly common, the host of the party declared that it was the best wine that he had ever tasted. Given that Israelis commonly had wine in their water (as an antimicrobial. Though they lacked a working germ theory, they knew that alcohol-diluted water would be safer to drink), anyways, this would mean that you were probably looking at a wine that tasted like a good vintage, with a balanced, but complex flavor.

Getting right down to it, saying Christ made a juice is a denial that Scripture is true. Scripture says it was wine. It uses the same Greek word used in the book of Ephesians when it says "do not be drunk on wine". So either Scripture is lying, or Christ is not truly perfect, if the consumption of wine is a sin.

I actually take a glass of wine occasionally because I have a problem with insomnia, and alcohol is actually less dangerous than the drugs the doctors have recommended. But one glass of wine and in thirty minutes I can sleep like a baby.

The Bible is very specific on some things, and very vague on others. In the case of wine, it would have been downright dangerous to drink straight water without alcohol unless one boiled it prior. Since boiling drinking water isn't always practical, the use of alcohol made drinking water safe.

Also, we happen to have made wine using the recipe that early Israelis did. It's quite strong.

Anonymous said...

There are many pagan beliefs that even anti-christmas will say "Well it's just a tradition." Such as marriage rings were dedicated to a pagan god with a circle teaching marriage after death. Which Jesus taught was false. Many of the information people get is on internet which will make up anything it wants. Christmas band until the 1800s. I guess George Washington didn't get the memo. He celebrated Christmas all his life. And had week long parties and celebrations when he was president.

Anonymous said...

Jesus didn't make grape juice, LOLOL!!!

The wine in the Bible, is wine. Alcohol.

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Drunkenness is a sin.

Bible Believer said...

I agree wine in Jesus's time had far less of an alcohol content. They didn't always have clean water available and this is what they drank.

I have read the wine was 'watered down" too and the wine used as that antimicrobial.

I do not think drinking wine even our modern kind is a sin, some even cook with it but drunkenness is a sin.

**************

George Washington was Freemason, I am sure he celebrated Christmas too. Remember this is not David Burton land.

Bible Believer said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAl_7us1a78

I have to admit this one disappointed me. I still respect many aspects of his ministry. I don't think we are to celebrate Christmas to impress the atheists.

Anonymous said...

Late anon

Re: the off topic wine.

http://www.pmiministries.com/BIBLE-WINES_William%20Patton.pdf

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/did_jesus_make_alcoholic_wine.html

William Sculley said...

I've done a little more research on the wine in the New Testament. They do have a few recipes for how to make a wine like in those times, and have replicated the recipes we have. Most of them were, undiluted, stronger than we are used to. That is likely what Christ made. At a wedding party, you would have some people drinking undiluted wine for taste (meaning 1 glass for many), but most watering it down to keep their tongues wet because of the naturally dry heat of the Middle East.

However, their wine fresh is stronger than most wines you find on the shelf in the store today.

Anonymous said...

William is a man that believes everything he hears from man. He obviously doesn't believe the Bible.

Anonymous said...

"Hate to break it to you, but the Greek word "Ainos" always means wine. It does not mean juice. The Greek word literally means "the liquid product of the grape which has been fermented to contain alcohol".

Hate to break it to you. But Ainos has nothing to do with wine. The word Ainos means praise or a proverb.

http://biblehub.com/greek/136.htm

Where as Oinos deals with wine. Oinos can mean fermented or unfermented wine. Matthew 9:17 is unfermented.

I still stand by the belief that Jesus made grape juice, or unfermented wine.

Again, the bible says that the wedding guests had "well drunken", had lots to drink already. So Jesus then decides to make another 150 gallon of alcoholic wine for guests who had already had alot to drink? Jesus would be contributing to sin.

Habakkuk 2:15
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also,"



Anonymous said...

In response to Mr William Scully:

"So then, faith comes by hearing,
And hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17

Literate or illiterate, faith comes from hearing the word. Images are powerful in conveying ideas, and we often will accept those ideas without conscious thought. That is why so many billions are spent on advertising and propaganda.

And Gods word tells us, in Exodus 20:4 , “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth..."

When the Isrealites made themselves an image to represent God, they were in sin. When we have a wrong image or view of Jesus we are in sin. Be very careful that your view of Jesus is based solely on the word of God, not on icons, images, or cultural ideas.

Joy


Anonymous said...

Our 6 year old grandson has asked us why we do not celebrate Christmas. He asked the same question last year and I did not answer him. But this year I am starting to write it down. "Why Grandpa and Grandma do not celebrate Christmas" How to explain a conviction to a 6 year old . We have 13 grandchildren. I think part of the problem is not to cause the grandchildren to go against their parents. I will share about grandpa and grandmas past celebrations when we were young. And then about the celebrations around our children growing up. Then about when the realization and the truths in the Bible and in Christmas history that caused us to have conviction. Praying for a lovely way to share and not judge . I love teaching from Girls club to Jr. Church to ladies Bibel Studies . Lord Lead me!

William Sculley said...

Yes, Anon, explain to your grandson why you refuse to join with the followers of Christ to celebrate Christ's birth on this earth, the Incarnation of the Divine Word of God in and through the womb of a virgin. Such an occurrence is something worth celebrating, and nobody is going to tell me that I can't celebrate it just because his birth happened to occur, based on the proximity to the birth of John the Baptist, around the time that some German cult celebrated their stupid holiday. I'm sorry, but there are so many false religions out there with random holidays that every single day of the year is tied to some random false feast.

The false history Christ-haters build around Christmas has nothing to do with the holiday. It's always about anti-Catholic hatred, not reality. Not logic. Not truth. There isn't a lovely way to share hatred.

Anonymous said...

The bible does NOT say Jesus Christ celebrated Hanukkah. The word is not even in the bible. It's says that Jesus was in the temple during the Festival of Dedication. It doesn't say he celebrated it. This false argument is nothing more than papal justification. I've had Catholics tell me Hanukkah was in the OT, but when asked for scripture they couldn't provide it. The Maccabean revolt is the time when Hanukkah supposedly started. This was AFTER the last book of the OT was written. We hear about this "holiday" in the apocrypha. Judaism didn't celebrate it until around 500 AD. "Chrismas" is a pagan holy day. It's evident by the trees they decorate that God tells us in Jeremiah the heathen did. The papacy is the antichrist. It literally fulfills every scripture that speaks in the issue.......James

William Sculley said...

Re: James from Nov. 22

1. Yes, Jesus Christ did celebrate Hannukah. We know this because the Feast of Hanukkah, which is translated into the Greek of the New Testament by its title "Feast of Dedication", is mentioned in the New Testament. In John 10:22, Jesus is shown going to the Temple to celebrate the Feast of Dedication, which is Hanukkah. One does not go to the Temple and not participate in the feasts they celebrated.

2. Tell me which book of Scripture tells you that the Maccabees isn't Scripture? Jesus quoted it. It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation decided to use the truncated canon of the antichrist movement known as the Masoretes that anyone didn't consider the Maccabees to be Scripture.

3. Jews did celebrate it at the time, because it wouldn't be MENTIONED if they weren't celebrating it. That would be like someone writing "It was around the time of Christmas" in 200 BC. It makes no sense.

4. I will ALWAYS celebrate the Incarnation of the Word of God under the title of Christmas regardless of you baseless, tin foil hat-worthy assertion that it is from a pagan holiday. Why? Because your claim is based in 100% pure hatred of the brothers of Christ based simply on the fact that they don't follow your hatred of a man. If your religion teaches you to preach the hatred of a human being, then your religion is antichrist. This is why I reject your "the Pope is the antichrist" bigotry. The Pope is a man, created in the image of God, and Jesus Christ died for that man. If you are not willing to go to the same lengths Christ went to for the Pope, then you do not love him the way Christ COMMANDS you to. So unless the Scripture says, an I mean word for word, "The Pope is the antichrist", take your hatred elsewhere and don't tell me you love Christ when you hate someone Christ died for.