Friday, June 6, 2014

Islamic Prayers At the Vatican



Well we all knew this day was coming. Many have warned the one world religion agenda was to join Islam, false Christianity and Judaism together and proceed from that point. The Antichrist Pope is moving fast......

Islamic prayers to be held at the Vatican

No Joke: For First Time Islamic Prayers To Be Held In The Vatican…

"For the first time in history, Islamic prayers and readings from the Quran will be heard at the Vatican on Sunday, in a move by Pope Francis to usher in peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Francis issued the invitation to Israeli President Shimon Peres and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas during his visit last week to Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian Authority.

Abbas, Peres, and Francis will be joined by Jewish, Christian and Islamic religious leaders, a statement released by Peres’s spokesperson said, according to the Times of Israel.

Holy See officials on Friday said the evening prayers would be a “pause in politics” and had no political aim other than to rekindle the desire for Israeli-Palestinian peace at the political and popular level, according to the Associated Press."

Well the Antichrist Pope is heating up the pot for the frogs to boil in, and I've posted here before about earlier Popes preaching that "Allah of Islam" equals "god". The Catholic church worships "another christ" and not the God of the Bible. To them, one "god" in their universal [universalistic] church is as good as another. Islam was founded by Rome to begin with.

One World Religion: The Beast Gets Ready for Delusion

82 comments:

Steve B said...

The muslims 'are' his brothers. Jesuits & Freemasons are brothers of all religions.

The only thing they don't agree with is atheism. Agnosticism is the only "god" requirement for brotherhood in their fraternities.

The born again Christian is not welcome in the lodges, as proselytizing is forbidden.

Lillianna White said...

Hi everyone!

I'm back and yes, it was a success and I will leave it at that. (:
Thank you to all who prayed!!!

There is definitely something cooking here. My discernment radar picked it up over a year ago and I just had that feeling that 'this is it.' So far, it's all been falling into place and seems to have moved to high speed towards the antichrist's reign lately, as this article shows.

But even among believers who know about the post trib rapture, they don't want to hear it.

I have been getting caught up on all these websites' postings since I returned and have found a few nay-sayers out there saying things like 'naw... this ain't it' and 'I don't care about this pope,' etc. like they know. Sounds like that slithery voice telling people 'oh, no! No worries! Just keep sleeping and go on blindly enjoying your great lives! This is not it yet. Trust me, I'll let you know when it is.' Even if wrong, I'd rather err on the side of caution and be on the alert and ready than found slumbering.

While most (even believers) are out there loving their lives and taking their kids to soccor practice in their shiny minivans and glazing over sports filled TV screens in picture perfect houses and indulging in a vice or two... the powers that be are moving the NWO plan full speed ahead; lulling the masses to sleep and hoping they slumber until it's too late. Now not all of us can be 'preppers,' but the most important prepping is spiritual prepping! Be ready to lay it all down. When that day comes and hits them between the eyes like a deer in the headlights, will they be ready to lay down their lives and give up all their property, etc. for their faith (as in other parts of the world right now)? Or will they cower... one principle at a time... like the frog in the 'jacuzzi' to the system of the beast? First, it's the worldliness in the church, then it's the gay agenda, then it's other religions, then it's the mark of the beast (which their leaders will have convinced them is something else) and then it's too late. But they just find someone who will tell them what they want to believe to appease their consciences. As if it won't happen until they are ready for it, their kids have graduated, married, had kids, seen them graduate, marry, have kids, raise them, and so on until whenever they are all done and ready to give up whatever is left at age
99. Sorry, but this is the wake up call.

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it."
Mark 8; 35

"He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10; 37

"28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33

***but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."
Matthew 10; 28-33

Bible Believer said...

When I was UU before I was born again, I was still in the fold of Rome. Momma Rome heads up all the fraternities and false religions. Even the rabbis go pay homage to Papa Pope along with the mullahs.

Bible Believer said...

Lillianna, I am glad your mission's trip went well. Praise God.

They are moving things along fast, hey it's been a step by step process. Some called me crazy circa 2003, when I told some Catholics online that the Catholics and Muslims would be doing combined worship.

I don't believe in pre-trib, am post trib probably on technical level.

Most don't care, only rare born again Christians, I see atheists, pagans and others praising this guy constantly. Benedict they weren't thrilled about, but this one they love.

I feel like I am walking among the sleep walking. All those zombie memes have a deeper meaning. To be awake and looking around, sometimes it can be very hard. Please pray for me. I am being tested on multiple fronts.

My life is not the norm of most Americans, I kind of watch from the side. God got me some computers and connection, that is a good thing. While many are miserable and distracted, some seem happy and satisfied not troubled at all by what is going on. Ignorance [chosen I believe] as a blissful state. Most are snoozing along, and they don't want you turning a light on and yell at you to get out.

Those who have more to lose actually may be in more spiritual trouble. The NWO will use fear and everything else. I have to pray against my own fear and sadness that Satan sends me. Sometimes knowing what we do can be a burden and if one has faced heavy losses...

Most are happy watching all the religions unite. No one seems to care about WWIII being set up.

Thanks for your verses you posted too.

1 John 2:15-17

King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Anonymous said...

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1402340.htm

"At the ceremony, which will take place in the Vatican Gardens at 7 p.m., "we do not pray together, but we come together to pray," Father Pizzaballa said. He explained that national delegations accompanying each leader would include followers of different religions, who would observe three distinct moments of Jewish, Christian and Muslim prayer for peace, in order of the religions' historical precedence.

The Jewish prayers will be in Hebrew, the Muslim prayers in Arabic, and the Christian prayers in English, Italian and Arabic"

http://www.timesofisrael.com/peres-abbas-to-attend-vatican-prayer-event-sunday/
"The event will feature readings about peace by the clergy from the Tanach, the New Testament and the Quran. Francis will then read religious verses with Peres and Abbas, which the three will have selected for the ceremony."

Within His Word said...

I posted on my blog a quick little article about how the "pope" invited Joel Osteen and a mormon to a private meeting with himself, to discuss being "all inclusive": http://withinhisword.blogspot.com/2014/06/joel-osteen-and-pope-bff-time.html

This "pope" is not wasting any time with trying to unite all beliefs in the world together. The days are short...

david said...

catholic church is the fake false prophet....satans clever...he dresses em up in scarlet and purple so people will say, "ah-ha! mystery Babylon! false prophet! But its one of the fake ones before the real....jus sayin

atmo joyo said...

Islam and Vatican have same root.........

The wicked men at first draw sin with a slender cord; but by and by their sins increase,
and they are drawn after them by a cart rope.(Isaiah 5:18)

Devil's religions are corrupt tree because he is twisted, corrupted Bible (OT and NT),
Nimrod's Babylon is the root, catholic is the trunk.
Branches are hindu, mormon, budha, islam, New age,Gnostic, pagans etc.
Bear poisonous fruits (doctrines and teachings) and bring them to death.
In the end of them are cast into lake of fire.(Matthew 7:17-19)


ISAIAH CHAPTER 5:18
18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:

Matthew 7:17-19
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Anonymous said...

The catholic church founded Islam? I always thought that it was a pagan religion where they worshipped a moon God, and then mohammed came along.

Anonymous said...

Both Islam and Judaism reject Jesus Christ as God and Savior. There is no reconciliation between the three. A christian must reject Islam and Judaism as false. There can be no other way for a true christian.

This also includes paganism, hinduism, mormonism, buddhism, atheism, catholicism, and whatever other false ism that's out there.


Bible Believer said...

Agree the root is Nimrods Babylon atmo...

David who is the real one then? I believe Mystery Babylon all has it's different flavors.

http://ephesians511blog.net/2014/06/07/exposed-washington-dcs-christian-mafia-arranges-joel-osteenpope-visit/


So Osteen and Mormons are invited by the Fellowship...

I wrote on Coe and pals a long time ago..

Always figured they were a Vatican vehicle of some sort. Here is what I wrote three years ago...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/08/they-want-theocracy-family.html

"One thing I read in Sharlet's first book, is this group started off THE CELL group stuff, that I have warned about on this blog before. This group teaches Dominionism, blind obedience and this weird "jesus plus nothing" stuff, but it is not the Jesus of the Bible they follow but the Antichrist in my opinion. The indirect connections to Rome are there with Opus Dei linked senators being associated with this group.

In this book, he quotes the leaders from many meetings and its shocking. Praises for Hitler, Mao, the attitude of the upper elite, towards the masses, that the underlings, need the "better" elite to direct them, and the attitude that their quest for power comes first, even at the expense of hundreds of thousands of deaths. When I read "Christian" as a descriptor word for these people in this book, I just thought Satanist, because there was NOTHING Christian at all about them. If you really want to understand what is happening behind the scenes of the religious right and all the growing calls for Dominionism, you need to know about this group."

Bible Believer said...

Saw this article YEARS ago.

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/7025?eng=y

Syro-Christians mentioned probably Catholics, false teachers of course.

Bible Believer said...

http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2014/06/07/0415/00948.html#Testi%20in%20lingua%20inglese

Here is the list of prayers they plan to pray...

praying to the same god...[not the God of the bible we worship]

Remember:
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

It's all antichrist, but check out these snippets:

"Almighty God and Father,

we gather here together,

we, your children, Jews, Christians and Muslims,

all recognizing you as our Creator.

We come to give you thanks

for the beauty and wonder of Your creation."

You will see both the Talmudic Judaism and Muslim prayers too.

david said...

how would I know who the real one is? Does that make the obvious counterfeits any less obvious? I enjoy ephesians 5:11 blog but I don't go there for biblical teaching. thanks

atmo joyo said...

To Anon,

Did i said catholic created islam ? No

What I meant catholic is trunk as The Leader of Pagan Religions ( Pontifex Maximus )

Btw,
Anon are you deny God,when u said : Both Islam and Judaism reject Jesus Christ "as" God and Savior ?
As...???



1 Timothy 1:1-2
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Anonymous said...

The name of their god will morph more to the freemason's "grand architect of the universe" as the false church brings in all faiths including pagans. Their god will become a non-personal genderless force. (1 John 4: 2&3) - Don

Lillianna White said...

Hi BB!

I will definitely pray for you for all the issues. We all have those times, I sure do!

About the interfaith praying at the Vatican, it doesn't matter how they dice it up, it's the same game. I have nothing to do with any meetings that involve practices of other religions. It is just their subtle way of bringing in the one world religion slowly, one compromise at a time. I mean, to invite members of other religions to what they call a 'Christian' headquarters to pray to their god (another god) for world peace?!? Shoulder to shoulder with the other religions doing the same? They are inviting the antichrist to come upon the stage and do what the book of Revelation says he will do. He will merely emerge from behind the curtain and tell them to all hold hands. It will look like peace has been gained for about... five minutes.

1 Thess. 5;3
While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

It's either the real true Jesus, or it's the devil's kingdom, regardless of labels they have. They will readily hold hands because they are already puppets on his strings. False 'christians' included.

We will be the only resisters.
(:

Catholic Mission said...

Sunday, June 8, 2014

Peres, Abbas need to convert for salvation according to Pope John XXIII's Vatican Council II

Israel’s Shimon Peres and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas according to the Catholic Church's Vatican Council II are on the path to Hell since they do not have 'faith and baptism' needed for salvation.According to the Catholic Church (Notification, CDF, Dupuis 2001) their religions are not paths to salvation. There are good and holy things in their religion ( Nostra Aetate ) but the religions are not paths to salvation and they need to convert ( Dominus Iesus 20).

They will both pray today at the Vatican, which affirms outside the Church there is no salvation, in the text of Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846).However publically it is not affirmed.

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II

Even Patriarch Bartholomew, the spiritual head of the Orthodox Church, who will be present does not have Catholic faith ( AG 7) and according to the defined dogma Cantate Domino Council of Florence he is oriented to the fires of Hell unless he converts into the Catholic Church before death.

This was the teaching of Pope John Paul II in Ut Unum Sint.He taught that membership in the Church under the pope was necessary for other Christians.This is also the teaching in the Catechism which says God wants all people to be united in the Catholic Church (CCC 845) .In Ecclesia di Eucarestia Pope John Paul II upheld the ecclesiology of outside the Church no salvation.

According to Pope John XXIII's Vatican Council II Jews,Muslims and other non Catholics need 'faith and baptism' for salvation. In Heaven there are only Catholics, who are there without mortal sin, and with faith and baptism. Pope Paul VI who concluded Vatican Council II said in Evangelii Nuntiandi that even though the members of other religions may have their hands raised to God, the Catholic Church is the only path to salvation.

In 2014 we do not know any person saved with ' a ray of the Truth'( NA 2) or 'seeds of the Word'(AG 11) or 'imperfect communion with the Church'(UR 3). They are possibilities but the ordinary means of salvation in 'faith and baptism' in the Catholic Church.
-Lionel Andrades

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1402316.htm

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-pizzaballa-34582/

Cardinal Jean-Louis Pierre Tauran must accept Vatican Council II and set an example for the Catholic religious communities and SSPXhttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/cardinal-jean-louis-pierre-tauran-must.html#links

CARDINAL KOCH MUST BE ASKED TO ACCEPT VATICAN COUNCIL II http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/05/cardinal-koch-must-be-asked-to-accept.html

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/peresabbas-need-to-convert-for.html

eric le debonnaire said...

Agreeing with anonymous. Scriptures say explicitly that Jesus is God and Savior 2 Peter 1:1 Titus 2:13
Some versions do not render these verses accurately. In the more ancient versions in French (my 1st language) , Jesus is God AND Savior in these verses. In these , it is spoken of only 1 ‘person’ ( to speak like a man) and not 2. There is only One God and only One savior , just as the O.T says (Isaiah 43:11), there is no savior but God.

Titus 2:13 in the KJV : “ Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ”
KJV scholars loving the Truth say this verse should be understood as speaking of only one ‘person’ (Jésus-Christ) and not 2.

God is Spirit. the Son is the same God who came in the flesh. It goes without speaking that many scriptures say that Father is God (like in 1 Timothy 1:2) so far so good , and there are also scriptures explicitly saying that Jesus-Christ is God and Savior, our great God (who came in the flesh). I know I would not be saved if I had not believed that the one who came in the world to save me is the One True God , who came first in the flesh before offering himself. Men look to appearances , many do not recognize their Maker who came in the same flesh than them, but God do not look to what man look or worship. The same who dwells in Holiness and is the Most High Sovereign Master and Lord (who is also near to the lowly ones), came & became very Lowly and was made sin for us so that our hearts be pierced , when revelation is by the Spirit of Truth who convinces of Sin righteousness and judgement , we look at the Majesty of the One who did just that, who opens for believing sinners the holy source and way of redemption grace holiness and supplication thru His body and blood.

Antichrist religions deny the Father and the Son. Some can deny the Father as God , or can deny the Son as God , also denying that Father and Son as (and is) God ( without speaking of other silly ones that propose more than one Son like the Mormons , the WoF & the Manifest sons of God, and New Age).

God came in His creation, engendered thru a virgin in the flesh and from that point , was (also) named the Son of God (Luke 1:32). He said and He did, He spoke and by His Word and Holy Breathe, came in the world. After lowering Himself for a while , the Son as an obedient and enduring man offering himself to the Father , went to the Cross shedding His blood for the redemption of His creation , then was glorified , exalted after resurrection. God’s glory again, sitting with the Father on the One throne of God almighty, omnipotent and omniscient. The name above all names, the name of Jesus is also above other names known before like Yehovah-Jireh and other names by which the one true God made himself known partially …. Now, the Son and the Father are One, and frankly we can’t completely wrap this Truth around our intellectual brain. Theologians have tried to make an image of God in their intellectual mind and put it down into dogmas engraved in marble. We worship the True God in Spirit and truth , His glory shines on the face of Christ-Jesus , none had seen His face before, we wait His glorious appearing from Heaven when He shall
come in all His glory and power.

Catholic catechism about Jesus has some truth , but is very much Babylonian tainted. Trinities of 3 gods are found in Babylonian , Hindu , and Egyptian ancient beliefs. Our God is not like theirs. Unredeemed bow down to idols and dogmas. No love for the Truth, no consideration and hunger for the holy Scriptures. Their Jesus , if they have one , is very small and fake. And in doing that they deny the Father also.

Bible Believer said...

Catholic Mission are you a trad Catholic? Leave the Catholic church they are deniers of Jesus Christ and your Antichrist Popes and Vatican II documents are lies from the gates of hell. Even the lie that the "seeds of the Word" are in false religion is Satanic to the max. Satan does not plant seeds of the word.

Bible Believer said...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/05/trad-catholics-and-sede.html

Lillianna White said...

To Catholics:

The following is said in love and out of sincere concern, please read it through.

True believers adhere to the Word of God as final authority in all matters and nothing else. The Catholic church has placed new definitions behind many concepts such as 'born again.'

Some of those things said above apply, but to JESUS, not a church organization. We must be born again into HIS body by receiving HIM to be saved, and those are the only ones saved. We do not need any man's approval for salvation, only God's.

Here are verses from the bible that explain why salvation is outside of the Catholic church:

Mark 12; 38-40, Luke 11; 39-44, Matthew 23; 1-36 (Call no man 'father', religious pomp condemned)

1 Timothy 2; 5-6 (One mediator between God and man - Jesus!)

Matthew 6; 7, 15; 7-9 (No repetitious prayers, doctrines of men)

Ephesians 5; 22-24 (Christ is the head of the church)

Lillianna White said...

Water baptism does not save you:

And, by the way, baptism does not save you. Many people get water baptized and not saved. Some get saved but not water baptized (like the thief on the cross). The norm is to get saved and then water baptized as a symbolic commemoration of being raised into a new life in Christ (a new life now, not just after we die, etc.), although they can occur simultaneously if they give their life to Jesus and there is some water around, etc.

When Peter set out to preach in the house of the first gentile converts, they got saved BEFORE water baptism! See below:

"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10; 44-48

So they got saved BEFORE being water baptized, proving that water baptism is not necessary for salvation, nor does it save you, it is merely symbolic.

Then, infant baptism is actually OUTLAWED in the bible! See below:

“See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.'
Acts 8; 34-38

So, a person must be conscious enough of what is happening for water baptism to be meaningful.

But, we needn't worry about babies who haven't reached that level yet, as Jesus himself said in Luke 18; 16 that the kingdom of heaven is made up of such as these (children).

Lillianna White said...

And then there is the eucharist:

And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
Luke 22; 19
When Jesus spoke these words, where WAS his body? That was the first communion, and it was not his body, it was symbolic of it. That is evident in the words "Do this in remembrance of me." It is symbolic, a commemoration. Also, the whole book of Hebrews clearly explains that Jesus died ONCE and FOR ALL, and the atoning sacrifice is FINISHED. Nothing reappears in the bread and the wine, we celebrate what Jesus has completed on the cross. Communion in any way does not save you nor do any sacraments. The only thing that will save you is what Christ accomplished on the cross, dying for your sins, and you accepting and receiving that atonement for your sins personally of freewill as a cognizant and conscientious adult.

Also, the term 'Catholic' here does not mean the early church, but the stale rigidity of an establishment that morphed via infiltration and compromise in later centuries during Constantine's time.

And, I don't know where all that dogma came from, but it seems off topic (about all those Catholic pope dogmas). It doesn't matter what a church has in the books if what they are doing contradicts it. It is like a man who hangs a plaque on the wall that says in gold "I do not believe in sex before marriage." It is hanging above his bed where he just committed the act and the cigarette is still dangling from his mouth. It is like these apostate churches who claim "oh, yes, we are solid orthodox bible believing Christians!" and their statement of beliefs is 'kosher,' yet they are showing a recent video of Rick Warren praising the pope and advertising for his 'crislam,' and so forth. It is not what they say, but what they DO that we need to look at.

(:

Lillianna White said...

Here are a few more...

Jesus died once and for all, communion is not the body and blood, only symbolic
Matthew 26; 26-28, Mark 14; 22-24, Luke 22; 19-20, Hebrews 7; 27, 9; 12, 25-28, 10; 10,12,14,18, 1 Peter 3; 18

Not to worship Mary
Luke 11; 27-28

You must be born again as an adult
John 3, 1 Peter 1; 3, 23

Jesus is the one and only way of salvation
John 14; 6, Acts 4; 12, 1 Timothy 2; 5-6

Salvation is by the grace of God, not of works
Ephesians 2; 8-10, Acts 15; 11, 2 Timothy 1; 9, Romans 3; 28, Titus 3; 4-8

Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man, our High Priest and only priest
1 Timothy 2; 5-6, Hebrews 7; 27, 9; 12, 25-28, 10; 10,12,14,18

And of course all those verses about idols in the OT.

Note:
Even though there are some doctrines in the Catholic as well as Protestant churches (Lutheran, etc.) that are true, such as the Trinity, we must be born again for salvation. Once we totally and truly surrender to God we have a desire to only follow truth, the truth of God's word, and not what man has said in any denomination. Since there are so many contradictions in these denominations today with the bible, we must go by the bible and not associate with those who compromise but fellowship with one another instead.

The question becomes; are we religiously following a stale tradition of man (via denomination, family, etc.) or the word of God? Can we truly say we have been obedient to God according to His Word and our conscience? Many hide behind religious curtains while holding back from truly following Jesus.

(:
Go into your closet and pray alone to Him today and surrender yourself to Him and see for yourself!

atmo joyo said...

To eric le debonnaire,

You are gnostic Not Christian !
You Believe in Logos doctrine,
The concept that the Christ is the Logos has been important in establishing the doctrine of the divinity
and morality of Jesus Christ and his position as god in the Trinity as set forth in "the Chalcedonian Creed".
Logos is an important term in philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion.

Philo of Alexandria book, De vita contemplativa (20 BCE – c. 50 CE);
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.
He was with god in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it.

Your thought same as gnosticism (two ways teaching) :
Basic Gnosticism consisted of an extreme dualism, drawing a distinction between the body and the spirit realm.
Plato concept of pre-existent souls in a state of perfection prior to taking on a mortal body on the earth.
When the soul is released from the prison of body it ascends back to heavenly realm where reunited with the realm of ideas.
The soul in the Gnostic system must ascend through these heavenly realms in the quest to return to a state of perfection.
In Gnosticism the Logos is associated, or often paired with Sophia or wisdom.
In Valentinianism Logos & Sophia are a syzygy, or pair of aeons.

Beside Plato, there are other Gnostic (pretend to be) christian ;
Basilidian, Valentinus, Philo, Middle Platonic, Justin Martyr, Origen, Clement, Arius (Arianus), Marcion of Sinope ETC.

You quote and twisted Isaiah 43:11 to deny God,
But why you not read Isaiah 43:12 will give you explanation,
Beside God there was no strange god or (other) saviour.

You quote from 2 Peter 1:1; 1 Timothy 1:2 and Titus 2:13,
You said; KJV scholars loving the Truth say this verse should be understood as speaking of only one ‘person’
and there are also scriptures explicitly.....

I give you example about words, "and" and "son"
Bobby Hull and Brett Hull is one example of a father and son, duo who have both won the Hart Memorial Trophy.
It's explicitly "Bobby Hull and Bobby Hull" won the Hart Memorial Trophy ?
Or It's explicitly "Brett Hull and Brett Hull" won the Hart Memorial Trophy ?
Or Bobby Hull and Brett Hull are one person ?
No, Bobby Hull and his son Brett Hull won Memorial Trophy,

In my country there is a lot of independent churches hold doctrines :
1. Hold Trinity concept like Hindu
2. deny God
3. deny Holy Spirit come from God

You said : "Antichrist religions deny the Father and the Son."
You deny God The Father, it's meant you are antichrist. (1 John 2:22-23)

Jesus Christ is The Son Of God The Father (HEBREWS 1:5-6

HEBREWS 1:5-6
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Isaiah 43:11-12
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you:
therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

1 John 2:22-23
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

atmo joyo said...

To Lillianna White,

There is no partial in TRUTH. (1 Corinthians 10:21) (James 3:17)
Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Protestant doctrine including the Trinity doctrine
They are only Pagan Religions under christian name.

Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son ;
A father and son are never the same person or the same being; they are not one.
Jesus Christ is never identified in Scripture as God, nor is he ever called “God the Son.”
He is always called the “Son of God.”

When Peter was asked who he believed Jesus to be, he replied, (Matthew Chapter 16:16)
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

* The testimony of John the Baptist concerning Jesus Christ was, (John 1:34)
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

*Mark began his gospel with the words, (Mark Chapter 1:1)
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

*The Centurion at the cross said, “Truly this Man was the Son of God (Mark 15:39)
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out,
and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Demons declared, “You are the Son of God.” (Mark 3:11)
11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Indeed, The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , said, (Matthew 17:5)
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said,
This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Lilianna,you said ;
"are we religiously following a stale tradition of man (via denomination, family, etc.) or the word of God ?
Can we truly say we have been obedient to God according to His Word and our conscience ? "
So, why you believe on trinity doctrine and not obey The Words of God ?

Let us once and for all put away pagan, platonic, Logos doctrine and Gnostic (Two Ways Teaching)
notion that there is one god who consists of three persons (Trinity).
And let us accept the Words of God in Bible (KJV only) that states there is only one God the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.


1 Corinthians 10:21
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table,
and of the table of devils.

James 3:17
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated,
full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Catholic Mission said...

Lilliana White said: ( with comments)

To Catholics:

The following is said in love and out of sincere concern, please read it through.

True believers adhere to the Word of God as final authority in all matters and nothing else.
Lionel:But whose interpretation of the Word of God yours or those of the numerous sects ?
I'll stay with the only Church Jesus founded, outside which there is no salvation.


The Catholic church has placed new definitions behind many concepts such as 'born again.'
Lionel:
A born again person can be saved in the Catholic Church with Catholic Faith which includes the baptism of water.

Some of those things said above apply, but to JESUS, not a church organization. We must be born again into HIS body by receiving HIM to be saved, and those are the only ones saved. We do not need any man's approval for salvation, only God's.

Lionel:
The Catholic Church is Jesus' body the organisation is one aspect of it.

Even the apostles and disciples of Jesus over time became organised.

Here are verses from the bible that explain why salvation is outside of the Catholic church:

Mark 12; 38-40, Luke 11; 39-44, Matthew 23; 1-36 (Call no man 'father', religious pomp condemned)

Lionel:
We use the word father and granfather for our biological father and grandfather. We are obviously not referring to God.
This is a Protestant belief about Cathoics.

1 Timothy 2; 5-6 (One mediator between God and man - Jesus!)

Lionel:
Yes and Jesus saves through the Sacraments and teachings of the Church.

For Protestants every one must beleive in Jesus in their denomination for salvation for us Catholics every one must believe in Jesus in the Catholic Church.

Matthew 5; 7, 15; 7-9 (No repetitious prayers, doctrines of men)
Lionel:

This would include the doctrines of the Protestants and their repititous reading of the Bible ?

Lionel:
Ephesians 5; 22-24 (Christ is the head of the church)

Lionel:
Agreed! And Protestants are outside this Church. They are not on the path of salvation.

Lillianna White said...

To Lionel:

1. Jesus was obviously not referring to our earthly dads, only in a religious sense.
(:
2. That is a Protestant view of Catholics that is true, they do call priests 'father.'

3. No. Jesus saves through HIS sacrificial death once and for all on the cross ONLY. (the teachings are in the bible and His church adheres to them and teaches them)

4. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach you all things and this is how Scripture is illuminated for us. See John 13-17.

5. This is the ill of placing belief in ANY denomination rather than in Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior and it is in Him alone. (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.)

6. Yes, there are problems like repetition in Protestant churches, infant baptism, and so forth. This is because:
a. Some did not make a clean break due to various reasons (yet I stand behind them as imperfect but moving in the right direction) and
b. Teachings of Rome creep into Protestant denominations due to the stale factor (and originally from places like Babylon, Egypt, etc.) when the fresh life of the Spirit leaves a congregation as a whole. I call it the 'Vatican creep'.

7. We do not contend for the Protestant denominations, (individually I believe in the Reformation as a work of God) it was a move in the right direction but obviously improvement is needed. There are problems in all denominations.

8. The one true church is a living organism made up of born again believers collectively and transcends the walls of churches and organizations, with more in some, less in others, a remnant here and there, and some simply don't have any true believers, and some are in none due to the apostasy. With the growing apostasy today it is even worse.

9. That is the true church I advocate for, it is HIS church and no one else's. Salvation is only found in Jesus, not in a church, but those saved are in the one and only true church and not in the Catholic church. Being inside the walls of any church denomination won't save you, their sacraments won't save you, their membership won't save you, their recitations won't and nothing else either. Those IN CHRIST are in salvation, not those in a 'church'

Lionel, let me ask you this:
Have you ever read the whole bible from cover to cover? (Catholic or Protestant, but both old and new testaments at least)? Have you ever prayed to God and asked Him to reveal the truth to you? Have you ever gone to Him ALONE, trusted that He would answer you through prayer? He is waiting for you to go to HIM, not an establishment, organization, denomination, intercessory figure, icon, or other counterfeit for God. I am asking you this out of sincere love. Just go to HIM!
(:
Love,
Lillie

Lillianna White said...

Atmo,

I'm shocked at you.

Here is a HW list of bible verses:

Trinity -
Mark 1; 10-11, Matthew 22; 44, Psalm 110; 1 (you can see all 3 as separate persons at the baptism of Christ)

Father is God (see: bible)

Jesus is God
(the Son, the Messiah, 100 other titles...) -

Matthew 1; 23, Isaiah 9; 6, John 1; 1, 14, 5; 17-18, 8; 58, 10; 30-33, 14; 9-11, 20; 28, Philippians 2; 5-7, 1 Timothy 3; 16, Hebrews 1; 8-9 (Isaiah: He shall be called the Mighty God. I don't think it would be mentioned if this was not okay!)

Holy Spirit is God (Trinity issue) -
Ephesians 4; 4-6, 2 Corinthians 3; 16-18
Holy Spirit is a HE (person) -
John 14; 26, Romans 8; 16, 26

Basically you can't get around the Trinity because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all referred to as God yet are separate persons.

I am sure you agree that the bible states we should only worship God, right? (Correct answer: Yes.)

Then, there is Revelation 5; 13-14:

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

14 And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

So, who were they worshipping? The Lamb. Who is the Lamb? Jesus. No one can say they were wrong, or just misguided, or anything else. I mean, the Father is right there too by the way, if it was not good, He would let them know.

Please people, let's read the bible a little bit more, okay?

Also, a fact is still true regardless of untruths held to by a denomination. The whole Truth? Only God has it. Sorry if you thought it was you!
((;

We hear of the biblical illiteracy out there, but in here? These are no small matters either.

If anyone else still wants to argue, I have nothing further to say to you than that. If it is still not obvious, it never will be.

But it's in the bible, so it is true.

(:

Boy, contending for the faith is really a non stop job!

((:

2 Corinthians 10; 5:
"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ"

Bible Believer said...

Youre not a follower of Lew White are you Atmo? I am with Lillianna on this one.

Atmo what do you do with this verse?

1 John 5:7, King James Version (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Lillianna White said...

This one should have come first for Catholic guy:

1. Yes, HIS church, not the Catholic church.

2. No. But sometimes there is a blind remnant. See bible verses above once more.

3. No, it's not, it's an establishment. It can't save anyone. God saves, not a 'church'. Organizations are neither good nor evil in themselves, it all depends on what they stand for, etc.

-was trying to get these chronological without repasting...

thanks!

Anonymous said...

Also BB, Thomas said "My Lord and my God", he was not corrected by Jesus Christ (John 20:28) - Don

Steve B said...

atmo joyo @ 6/9/14 10:26pm

"A father and son are never the same person or the same being; they are not one."

I and the Father are One - John 10:30

"Jesus Christ is never identified in Scripture as God"

Mark 2:5-7 disagrees with you.

I'm not sure what translation you are entertaining, but I would suggest returning it.

Lillianna White said...

Yes! There are so many verses, thanks for these also.
(:

Another thing I can't emphasize enough:

Salvation is in Jesus alone by grace, our faith is in Him alone.

This is in contrast to those that claim that one must belong to ANY particular organization (church, denomination, etc.) to be saved. That is one of the main traits of a CULT. ALL the cults have that doctrine among certain other similar tenets, like works for salvation.

Remember: Faith for salvation is in Jesus only!

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14; 6

One and only way of salvation and it is only in Jesus, nothing else.

Not by works but by grace through faith, so that no one can brag.
~Ephesians 2; 8-10

and no, it's not a free pass to sin.

(:

atmo joyo said...

To Lilliana,

You quote from;
Matthew 22; 44, Mark 1; 10-11, Psalm 110; 1
* These passages state clearly That Jesus Christ is The Son of God

Matthew 1; 23, Isaiah 9; 6, John 1; 1, 14, 5; 17-18, 8; 58, 10; 30-33, 14; 9-11, 20; 28,
Philippians 2; 5-7, 1 Timothy 3; 16, Hebrews 1; 8-9,Rev 5; 13-14
* These passages state clearly Jesus Christ in God the Father and God the Father in Jesus christ, explain in
John 14:10-11 and John 14:20

Ephesians 4; 4-6, 2 Corinthians 3; 16-18
* These passages state clearly no word Trinity and never explain any concept Trinity

John 14; 26, Romans 8; 16, 26
*These passages state clearly The Holy Spirit come from God,
That is " The DIFFERENT" between Trinity doctrine and christian.
Christian bilieve The Holy Spirit come from God but Trinity doctrine Holy Spirit is a HE (person) (You SAID It).

Trinity
1. Trinity is a concept in Hinduism "in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction
are personified by forms of Brahma the creator, Vishnu the maintainer or preserver and Shiva the destroyer or transformer."
2. The word "trinity" and other words that the Bible does not exist, but mentioned by christian ;
Incarnation which means Christ who became flesh.
Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one god.

Because The Father, The word and The Holy Spirit,are three, then you (and others) claim it's Trinity ?
Trinity concept is three PERSON in one and one become three.
TRINITY DOCTRINE Believe Holy Spirit is third person not The Spirit from God.
The Greek manuscripts (septuagint) in any form which support these.

It is Hindu doctrine mixed with christianity.

The truth is The Holy Spirit come from God The Father not third person.
I am not trying seek my glory Lilliana, thank you for judge me.
All my wish in (1 Thessalonians 2:9-20)

To BB, Steve B and Don,

I dunno nothing about Lew White,BB
Iam not Priest or Preacher or Theoligian.

The Father, The Word, and The Holy Ghost.
The "Father"
He is the Creator, Our Father.
The "Word",
who said and it was done; who spoke all things out of nothing in the first creation;
who was in the beginning with God the Father, and by whom all things were created;
he declared himself to be the Son of God.
"The Holy Ghost",
The Spirit from the Father, and also called the Spirit of the Son, who testified of Jesus Christ.
Now the number of these witnesses was three, that they were witnesses in heaven to men on earth
and these three are one; which is to be understood, not only of their unity and agreement in their testimony,
they testifying of the same thing.

Jesus Christ in God The Father and God in Jesus Christ,
John 14:10-11
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Im using KJV Steve B,thanks

In TRINITY DOCTRINE, Holy Spirit is third person (like lilliana said) not The Spirit from God.
Trinity is Logos Doctrine or other form Gnostic.

It is Hindu doctrine mixed with christianity.
What's different eucharist wafer from egyptian mixed with Lord's Supper and trinity doctrine impute in Bible ?

The truth is The Holy Spirit come from God The Father not third person.

If you are baptized with Holy Sprit and fire, so you will know the meaning,
John 14:20
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


1 Thessalonians 2:9-20
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing?
Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
20 For ye are our glory and joy.

Catholic Mission said...



Lillianna White said...
To Lionel:

1. Jesus was obviously not referring to our earthly dads, only in a religious sense.

Lionel:Neither do we refer to our earthly Dad in a religious sense
(:
2. That is a Protestant view of Catholics that is true, they do call priests 'father.'

Lionel:Yes - and not God the Father. We are aware of the distinctiion.

3. No. Jesus saves through HIS sacrificial death once and for all on the cross ONLY. (the teachings are in the bible and His church adheres to them and teaches them)

Lionel:
They why don't you become a Catholic since this is what Catholics believe too.

4. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach you all things and this is how Scripture is illuminated for us. See John 13-17.
Lionel:
Did the Holy Spirit say that all must worship Jesus in the only Church Jesus founded or in the 33,ooo Christian sects and communities ?

5. This is the ill of placing belief in ANY denomination rather than in Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior and it is in Him alone. (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.)

Lionel: Catholics place their belief in Jesus alone, why do you not join us?

They do not say Jesus plus Sola Scriptura. Jesus plus my new Protestant community.

6. Yes, there are problems like repetition in Protestant churches, infant baptism, and so forth. This is because:
a. Some did not make a clean break due to various reasons (yet I stand behind them as imperfect but moving in the right direction) and
Lionel: So this is not also a problem for you in the Catholic Church? You could be generous here too?


b. Teachings of Rome creep into Protestant denominations due to the stale factor (and originally from places like Babylon, Egypt, etc.) when the fresh life of the Spirit leaves a congregation as a whole. I call it the 'Vatican creep'.
Lionel:
The teachings from Rome are those of Jesus Christ, the Apostles and the Church Fathers.This was the time when Martin Luther and King Henry VIII were not born nor were there new Protestant doctrines.

7. We do not contend for the Protestant denominations, (individually I believe in the Reformation as a work of God) it was a move in the right direction but obviously improvement is needed. There are problems in all denominations.

Lionel: Would you be so generous with the Catholic Church, the original Church, Jesus founded?

8. The one true church is a living organism made up of born again believers collectively and transcends the walls of churches and organizations, with more in some, less in others, a remnant here and there, and some simply don't have any true believers, and some are in none due to the apostasy. With the growing apostasy today it is even worse.
Lionel:
True in one sense.
However they still have an obligation to enter the Catholic Church and live their faith in the Catholic Church.This is what Jesus would want. Unity in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Mission said...

Lilliana:

Another thing I can't emphasize enough:

Salvation is in Jesus alone by grace, our faith is in Him alone.

Lionel:

However you still need the Bible, like me. You still have community or church, like me.

You use doctrines like the Trinity, which were approved by a Catholic Church Council ( just like me!).

You use a Bible that was put together for you by the Catholic Church , inspired by the Holy Spirit.
similar tenets,


Remember: Faith for salvation is in Jesus only!

Lionel: Of course this is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Anonymous said...

Not crazy about this website, but confirms Lew White owns a head shop. www.messianichallofshame.com/zlewwhite3.html - Don

eric le debonnaire said...

@ Atmo Joyo
I suppose it’s up to you to deny that Jesus is God (as some scriptures say plainly He is despite your poor attempts ) , maybe you will tell Him face to face when you’ll see Him that He isn’t God ?
I prefer to be with Thomas Paul and Peter on this one. Also with the KJV scholars with understanding who honestly say that Titus 2:13 speak of Jesus-Christ as our Great God and Saviour. Because that is exactly what this verse says , like 2 Peter 1:1 We have at least 2 witnesses that plainly say so. Paul and Peter. Are you an apostle ?

Do you say to all people you can’t put in a box that they are gnostics ? John wrote on the Logos to shut the mouth of the gnostics who denied Jesus’ divinity.
Gnostics also believed that only what is spiritual is good , they denied that Jesus was the Christ , they also could deny that Jesus suffered (Docetism) , they denied that Jesus was God or they denied that He was human. They believed a lot of B/S

Your accusations do not stand.

Jesus is my God and Saviour. Father is my God and Savior. Holy Breath/Spirit of God is God like the Holy Word of God is God. It is simple actually , God is Father and had always had Word and Breathe. Does that make God being 3 distinct persons in the same sense that we would speak of men ? Of course not.

Dogmas … such as 1st , 2nd , 3rd person of the Trinity, …. people repeat what they ‘ve been told , mostly catch definitions , even on God , but frankly where does that come from ? Certainly not from God or from the apostles. The dogma of the Trinity came with the councils. Constantine was there. Not my brothers. None of the guys at those councils were apostles. Many who fought against the new established Dogmas , Trinity or else , were not my brothers either (Aryan et …) despite they were persecuted for not following the ‘church’ of Rome and the official dogmas. Nicean or anti-Nicean , thesis or antithesis , the well established ‘Truths’ of organized religion or the opposite of It , frankly I don’t care. I’ll stick to the One who loved me and to the Scriptures.

Lillianna White said...

atmo;

Again, all Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 persons and all are referred to as God, thus... the Trinity!

Forget about other religions. That is what the bible says. By any other name, it is the same concept and they have attached the name Trinity to it.

That's all I have to say here.
I'm not judging you but your doctrine.

Lillianna White said...

Dear Lionel,

Good questions!
(:

1 & 2:
But do or don't Catholics call priests 'father'? That is the issue.

3:
But what is in a name? Placing trust in that is not the same. I bear the name of Jesus.
They also believe that the eucharist is the priest 'offering' up Christ as a sacrifice... again. This is like the OT sacrifices but with Christ it was 'once and for all' to complete everything and fulfill it. He said 'It is finished.'

4:
When asked by the woman at the well where we are to worship, in Jerusalem or Samaria, Jesus answered and said we are to worship God 'in Spirit and in Truth' John 4; 24. Believers worship at home, in the car, at church or home fellowships, in groups of friends, but it is between you and Him. When saved, we have a relationship with Him. It is all about that. It's not about the four walls of a building and the name on the door (given that it is true to the bible) and which of the 33,000 of them.

It's about this:
Have you invited Him inside the door of your heart? See Revelation 3;20.

5: They have other mediators... Mary, saints, etc. so it's not 'Christ alone.' We must put our trust in Christ alone to be saved. He doesn't share His glory that way with others. When we give our hearts to Jesus, we automatically become part of His church. We don't need someone to write it on a membership paper and get it signed by a religious leader. We are then in one body with all born again believers. It is only Jesus who has the authority to decide this, not man. You automatically share fellowship with other born again believers.

Many have heard this:

Jesus + something = nothing
but
Jesus + nothing = everything

All the credit and glory are His alone.

Now Catholics do say 'Jesus + my Catholic church membership' that has been validated, consecrated, etc.

The teachings of Christ are in the bible. That is all we have, thus 'sola scriptura.' But infant baptism is not, remember Acts 8 and the eunuch?

7:
We do not contend for any denomination (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc.)
Jesus founded His church. It is comprised of all born again believers. It began at Pentecost in the upper room, grew into the early church, and spread out from there until the ends of the earth today. All who are born again are part of it. People get too caught up in a name, the key is do we follow the words of God found in the bible?

A name is mankind's definition, label, and is a separate existential entity than a living organism. The Holy Spirit unites all who are born of the Spirit. This is His church.

8:
If you believe you need to be an official member of an organization on 'their' books, that is what the cults believe; mormons, JW's, etc.
That gives authority to man and not to God. But if born again, you are in His church automatically and share that unity with other believers.

Now the Catholics withheld the bible from the masses, but the Reformation gave the bible to the people. So...?

There are two concepts here. One is a definition controlled by man in the physical realm and the other is controlled by the authority of God in the spiritual realm. When I got saved, I felt it, I surrendered myself to Jesus and was baptized in the Holy Spirit (some experiences are more dramatic than others so I will leave it there, mine was more). God's love flooded my heart and there was no explaining it away. No one needed paperwork signed by the pope or anything else. I just accepted the atonement offered and repented of my sin and gave my life to God. That was all. What happened next was real and not of this world. That is how I know.

Try it Lionel, what do you have to lose? Just go to Jesus.

In love,
Lillie (:

Lillianna White said...

Don -
great one, that nailed it to the wall!

There are so many, it's on every page.

Now, I do step back and look at the big picture a lot. And I notice that believers over time tend to move in the direction of more perfect truth as they learn the truth of God's word. So, as we all move towards that goal, we meet there, and that is where the unity is. It just happens naturally. Like magnetic filings on a sheet line up, that sort of thing. The center is Jesus and His Truth.

All thanks and praise to Him!

Anyway, blessings and have a great day today everyone!
(:

atmo joyo said...

Lilliana said, Salvation is in Jesus alone by grace, our faith is in Him alone.
Yes It's true our faith in Him alone
The Problem is you deny God.
(Read)

TIMOTHY 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Historical fact KJV and English Language,

King James Bible is an English translation begun in 1604 and completed in 1611
King James Bible translator use God (word) to replace JEHOVAH (word),
Translators think Because His name too HOLY to mention.
We can found name of The LORD JEHOVAH at Gen.22:14; Ex.6:3; 17:15; Jg.6:24; Ps.83:18, Is.12:2; 26:4.
God (word), "First used in KJV" at 1604

BUT.......

Since Modern English/Today there are a lot of changes in English words.
Especially in KJV, more than 800 words has different meaning.
Modern English Samuel Johnson's dictionary, published in 1755 in England.
Noah Webster did the same in America, publishing his dictionary in 1828.

For Example,
God (KJV).....God (Before 1700 A.D Only God)
God (modern)..... the Lord, deity, divinity, the supreme being
Communicate (KJV).....to impart; to give to another, to share and/or participate together
Communicate (Modern)....convey, deliver, submit, pass, express, tell, recount, narrate, relate
banquet (KJV)..... alcohol drinking bouts and other foolish alcohol related social activities
Banquet (Modern) an elaborate and formal evening meal for many people, entertain with a banquet.
belly (KJV).....belly, womb, heart, Carnal lusts, sensual pleasure, the whole man
belly (Modern).....stomach, belly, tummy, maw, paunch, womb, reservoir, cistern, tank
leasing (KJV).....falsehood, untruth
leasing (modern) ..... hire, rent, lease, charter, retail
malignity (KJV).....mischievousness
malignity (modern).....malignancy, crime, evil, badness, disrepute, revenge, hatred
ETC

God (KJV).....God (Before 1700 A.D Only God).
God (modern english) .....the Lord, deity, divinity, the supreme being.
You translate KJV in Modern English NOT in original English Language.
Modern English very supporting Trinity Doctrine and deny God.

The LORD JEHOVAH and His Son The Lord Jesus Christ
in KJV,
The LORD God and His Son The Lord Jesus Christ
and you translate become 1 Person.
You have eyes but can't see and have ears but can't hear. (Ezekiel 12:2; Jeremiah 5:21; Mark 8:18)

Research and prove that they had change English Languange,especially in KJV if you dont believe.

Ezekiel 12:2
2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not;
they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Jeremiah 5:21
21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not;
which have ears, and hear not:

Mark 8:18
18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?





Catholic Mission said...

Lilliana:

But do or don't Catholics call priests 'father'? That is the issue.
Lionel:
No they do not call their biological father God the Father. So they call them God the Father is what you still believe?

3:
But what is in a name? Placing trust in that is not the same. I bear the name of Jesus.
They also believe that the eucharist is the priest 'offering' up Christ as a sacrifice... again. This is like the OT sacrifices but with Christ it was 'once and for all' to complete everything and fulfill it. He said 'It is finished.'

Lionel:
It is the same Sacrifice. It is the 'once and for all' Sacrifice also for us Catholics.

4:
When asked by the woman at the well where we are to worship, in Jerusalem or Samaria, Jesus answered and said we are to worship God 'in Spirit and in Truth' John 4; 24. Believers worship at home, in the car, at church or home fellowships, in groups of friends, but it is between you and Him. When saved, we have a relationship with Him. It is all about that. It's not about the four walls of a building and the name on the door (given that it is true to the bible) and which of the 33,000 of them.

Lionel: As a Catholic I too can worship God during the day and night any where.However I worship God in a Church whose doctrines are Catholic. Yours is Protestant. A rebellion against the true and only Church Jesus founded.
You are free to worship God any where, but with Catholic teachings.Why don't you?

It's about this:
Have you invited Him inside the door of your heart? See Revelation 3;20.

Lionel:
Yes.When will you invite him into your heart 'in spirit and truth'.?

5: They have other mediators... Mary, saints, etc. so it's not 'Christ alone.'

Lionel:
It is always Christ alone, in this sense.
However there are mediators.
There are also means, which can be mediators, example the Bible.
Why do you need a Bible?
Why do you need Christian doctrines?
Why do you need to believe in the Trinity which came from the Catholic Church Council ?
Why not just Jesus?
Continued

Catholic Mission said...

continued

We must put our trust in Christ alone to be saved. He doesn't share His glory that way with others. When we give our hearts to Jesus, we automatically become part of His church.

Lionel:
His Church is the Catholic Church. Even the Jehovah Witnesses, here believe in Jesus. They are ex Catholics. They believe Jesus is the same as St.Michael the Archangel.
This is not 'spirit and truth'!


We don't need someone to write it on a membership paper and get it signed by a religious leader.
Lionel:
However if you are in the Catholic Church you are obedient to the will of God. Otherwise you are obedient to your own ego.


We are then in one body with all born again believers.
Lionel:
And you all could still enter the Catholic Church and be born again believers.


It is only Jesus who has the authority to decide this, not man.
Lionel:
But you have decided which community to follow and you have decided that this is the will of Jesus and you have decided that the Catholics are wrong and you have decided that your teachers are correct...


You automatically share fellowship with other born again believers.

Many have heard this:

Jesus + something = nothing
but
Jesus + nothing = everything

All the credit and glory are His alone.

Now Catholics do say 'Jesus + my Catholic church membership' that has been validated, consecrated, etc.

Lionel:
And Lilliana says Jesus and her Protestant communities and doctrines are valid etc.

The teachings of Christ are in the bible.
Lionel:
The Catholic Bible !

That is all we have, thus 'sola scriptura.'
Lionel:
According to the Protestant communities.


But infant baptism is not, remember Acts 8 and the eunuch?

7:
We do not contend for any denomination (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc.)
Jesus founded His church.
Lionel:
Without the Catholic Church YOUR CHURCH would not have the Bible.


It is comprised of all born again believers. It began at Pentecost in the upper room,
Lionel:
The Catholic Church began at the Last Supper and expressed itself to all at Pentecost.
The Sola Sriptura doctrines were not there at that time.
Even after Pentecost, at the time of the Church Fathers, there were no Protestant doctrines.


grew into the early church, and spread out from there until the ends of the earth today. All who are born again are part of it. People get too caught up in a name, the key is do we follow the words of God found in the bible?

Lionel:
And complete that process by entering the Catholic Church.

A name is mankind's definition, label, and is a separate existential entity than a living organism. The Holy Spirit unites all who are born of the Spirit. This is His church.
Lionel:
The Holy Sprit leads all in general to the Catholic Church. There could be exceptions but then that would be known only to the Holy Spirit.
You Lilliana are not among the exceptions. You know about the Catholic Church and yet you are being disobedient.

8:
If you believe you need to be an official member of an organization on 'their' books, that is what the cults believe; mormons, JW's, etc.
Lionel:
Jesus said that he who believes in Him will not be condemned.Those who believed in Him had to be baptized. They were baptized into the community at that time. They then had to live particular teachings.

So they had to follow teachings which are different from your community and they had to be baptized into a community. Two important points.
Continued

Catholic Mission said...

continued

A name is mankind's definition, label, and is a separate existential entity than a living organism. The Holy Spirit unites all who are born of the Spirit. This is His church.
Lionel:
There are Protestant communities which approve abortion. This is not his church.
8:
If you believe you need to be an official member of an organization on 'their' books, that is what the cults believe; mormons, JW's, etc.

Lionel:
Jesus said he who does not believe will be condemned. He was talking about a Church in which he wanted the new believers to be baptised and to live in a certain way.
This was the will of God the Father.There was one Church and he wanted all to be united in this one Church.

That gives authority to man and not to God. But if born again, you are in His church automatically and share that unity with other believers.

Lionel:
But you are outside the Church which Jesus founded and which indicates you cannot be saved. Since you know about this Church but yet you are disobedient.
So are your teachers.


Now the Catholics withheld the bible from the masses, but the Reformation gave the bible to the people. So...?

Lionel:
So there are now 33,000 plus interpretations all claiming to be the true one.

There are two concepts here. One is a definition controlled by man in the physical realm and the other is controlled by the authority of God in the spiritual realm.
Lionel:
Yours is the one controlled by man: King Henry VIII and Martin Luther.


When I got saved, I felt it, I surrendered myself to Jesus and was baptized in the Holy Spirit (some experiences are more dramatic than others so I will leave it there, mine was more).
Lionel:
That's wonderful!
However now you need to take the next step and enter the Church Jesus founded. The same Jesus who called you in special way at your baptism.


God's love flooded my heart and there was no explaining it away.
Lionel:
Praised be Jesus now and forever!

No one needed paperwork signed by the pope or anything else. I just accepted the atonement offered and repented of my sin and gave my life to God. That was all. What happened next was real and not of this world. That is how I know.
Lionel:
Praised be Jesus!

Try it Lionel, what do you have to lose? Just go to Jesus.

Lionel:
He is with me. I have gone to Jesus and He has come to me, a stupid sinner.


In Christ
Lionel

atmo joyo said...

Gnostic ideas found a Jewish variation in the mystical study of Kabbalah.
Many core Gnostic ideas reappear in Kabbalah.
Many Gnostics claimed to know the "secrets" of the apostles.
Once the apostles were gone, many came pretenders asking for the secrets of Bible,
and they mixed doctrine with Pagan philosophy and Pagan beliefs.

Gnostic Christian Officially legalized by Constantine I ;
Arius was declared heretic in Asia Minor, where he had fled (323)
He was anathematized by the Council of Nicaea and banished by Roman Emperor Constantine (325).

But .....

In the reaction after Nicaea, he came into Imperial favor and Arius gained support from Clergy across all Europe
From Tyre the assembly of bishops were summoned to Jerusalem by Constantine,
To assist at the dedication of the basilica he had erected on the site of Calvary.
After the dedication they restored Arius and his followers to communion.

So, though the Council of Nicaea initially exiled the Gnostic Christian, the final result they was championed.
The systematic effort to undermine the Council's ruling, and the reinstatement of the gnostic, Arius.

And who was involved in this effort?
Well, among others, emperor Constantine and Eusebius of Caesarea.

Arianism was reinstated by Constantine I who was Baptised as an Arian Christian on his deathbed,
and was supported by his son Constantius II who even raised Felix II as the Arian bishop of Rome.

An interesting note is that because Arius was officially re-instated into Full Communion of church before he died in 336 AD.
Emperor of Rome, Constantine, he officially is NOT excommunicated and NOT a heretic according to Roman Catholic church.

Some of you criticize Constantine but follow his gnostic christian.


Matthew 15:7-9
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Bible Believer said...

Lionel I find it absurd you are defending the Catholic church on a post where your Pope denies Jesus Christ directly allowing for Muslim and Talmudic prayers and refers to both religions which deny Jesus Christ as being fellow "brother" religions, see later post, and all followers of the same God. I mean what is it going to take for some of you to wake up? You love this institution far more then Jesus Christ because Jesus was direct denied by your Pope. Of course Rome has given you "another christ" in it's Eucharistic wafer. I have heard all these arguments for Roman Catholicism but it is still a false religion. It teaches now the same things the UUs taught me they are ripping that "Christian" façade off even more. Your beloved Catholic church can't follow the first commandment. It is the harlot, the creation of Satan himself to deceive those such as yourself. There is still time to come to Jesus Christ and BELIEVE IN HIM for your salvation, not Rome's rituals and lies and universalism of all religions.

Bible Believer said...

Atmo, the word Trinity doesn't appear in the Bible but the Bible says that the "three are made one" I don't even care if someone uses the word trinity or not, for me it's a nonissue, though I use the word to denote the "three are made one" concept as I am sure other Christians do too.

Don't get hung up on the fact Catholics use that word, they don't even have the right jesus worshipping an idol.


1 John 5:7

King James Version (KJV)


7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You are in dangerous spiritual territory when you start piece mealing the Bible and throwing out verses. I have this anti-Paul person sending me anti-Paul writings, you throw out a dozen or so verses, he throws out entire books.

I need some clarity

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is eternal in nature, always existed?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit.

You seem to have many things correct but watch out for those Lew White/Hebrew Roots or whoever you are following... people. I hope you have not fallen for some cult that teaches some truths but many heavy deceptions.

I DON'T FOLLOW ROME'S COUNCILS, be careful not to let their history and labels divert you from what the bible directly teaches. If you get lost in that mishmash they can convince you of anything. I even have read from some Lew White types that the word "God" is evil and so is the use of the word "Jesus".

Bible Believer said...

Atmo, the word Trinity doesn't appear in the Bible but the Bible says that the "three are made one" I don't even care if someone uses the word trinity or not, for me it's a nonissue, though I use the word to denote the "three are made one" concept as I am sure other Christians do too.

Don't get hung up on the fact Catholics use that word, they don't even have the right jesus worshipping an idol.


1 John 5:7

King James Version (KJV)


7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You are in dangerous spiritual territory when you start piece mealing the Bible and throwing out verses. I have this anti-Paul person sending me anti-Paul writings, you throw out a dozen or so verses, he throws out entire books.

I need some clarity

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is eternal in nature, always existed?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit.

You seem to have many things correct but watch out for those Lew White/Hebrew Roots or whoever you are following... people. I hope you have not fallen for some cult that teaches some truths but many heavy deceptions.

I DON'T FOLLOW ROME'S COUNCILS, be careful not to let their history and labels divert you from what the bible directly teaches. If you get lost in that mishmash they can convince you of anything. I even have read from some Lew White types that the word "God" is evil and so is the use of the word "Jesus".

Bible Believer said...

I don't know why my posts keep tripling and double posting. Anyhow else having this problem?

Bible Believer said...

Maybe it's time to do a Lew White post, I thought the audience would be too limited. I am seeing some of your beliefs as being close to those.

I find it interesting what they named their book here...

An English translation of Scripture for the next generation

BESORAH of YAHUSHA NATSARIM VERSION

NATSARIM

Hmm switch a few letters and you have SATAN

More doing things right in people's view.

http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/

What is scary is they have many truths about paganism, warnings about babylonianism but then what they mix it with.

Hmm I saw this website today too, some other commenter mentioned the head shop...

[not an endorsement of any of these links]

http://www.messianichallofshame.com/

Lillianna White said...

atmo:

YOU deny God by claiming that Jesus is not God. You need to read the bible again.

"For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body."
Colossians 2;9

So, who is in denial here?!?

Lillianna White said...

Atmo:

For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

Colossians 2;9

So, who is denying God here?!?
YOU.

Not sure if that last one went through...

Lillianna White said...

Lionel darling...

We are going in circles here.

1. Jesus said call no man 'father.' Obviously our dad is not what He meant. Other than our dad, just our Father in heaven, period.

2. You cannot offer the same sacrifice again. Jesus offered Himself once, it is complete.

3. I don't profess any denomination, remember? I do believe in the reformation, that does not mean I hold to everything every Protestant church believes or teaches. I am not caught up in the authority of man.

4. Jesus founded HIS church, a building made without hands, composed of all born again believers. So it is not I who is in rebellion, but you.

5. No, it is without Catholic teachings but with bible teachings, and the Catholic teachings contradict these and vice versa.

6. I did but you still need to give Him your whole heart. When you surrender to Him completely, He leads you out and removes the blindfold.

7. There are no mediators aside from Jesus. 1 Timothy 2; 5

8. The bible is God's vehicle for His message. Now, why is it that I have one in my hands now? Hmmm...

9. His church is not the Catholic church or any 'denomination'. We are His church, the born again believers who hold to His truth in the bible. (like 1 Tim. 2; 5)

continued below...

Lillianna White said...

10. Right, there are many reasons why the JW's and mormons are cults.
They don't believe in the same Jesus (that He is the 2nd person of the Trinity, etc.)

11. No, if you are outside of the Catholic church you are in the will of God, otherwise you are obedient to your own ego and security blanket.

12. Catholics don't call themselves 'born again' in the sense that Evangelical Christians do.

13. No, and Jesus has shown me this, because He is my Teacher and the Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth.

14. Lionel, Lionel... now you are putting words in my mouth. I have said over and again that I don't advocate for any denomination, Protestant ones included, remember?

15. So now you are saying that the truth is not in any other bible?

16. Yes, that is one thing I believe about Protestantism - sola scriptura.

17. Only the Catholic church added things that contradict the bible. The Trinity is fine, it is in there.

18. I credit the early Christians for the bible. When Constantine entered the picture, things changed.

19. His church began at Pentecost. The canon of scripture was not closed at that time. The apostles wrote letters and then came the Revelation to John and that was it. It has been preserved in the 'Catholic' church of that time, but released via the Reformation into our hands. I have many beloved copies of God's word thanks to the many martyrs during that time.

continued...

Lillianna White said...

20. You cannot add to what God has done. That would undo it just about by joining the Catholic church.

21. No, the Holy Spirit leads all to Jesus and out of the Catholic church.

22. I am a born again believer, no exceptions needed. You, however, are not an exception since God's word is available to you, thanks to the many Protestant martyrs. Even the Catholic bible is available for you now...
so I obey God, but you are disobedient to Him through blindness by the Catholic church.

23. I didn't say baptism, but membership. Then there are various baptisms...

24. I was baptized by both the Holy Spirit and later in water, thus I am in His community. I can't add anything to that.

25. His church is made up of people, not one name or denomination or collection of persons in a building.

26. Obviously those born again by Him do not believe in abortion. Like I said, I don't claim anything of any denomination, I just believe in the bible, period.

27. Yes, His church, not an establishment run by the men at the corrupt Vatican.

28. No, you are outside Jesus' church that He founded. I was saved on that day and you obviously are not or are truly blinded still, so you are disobedient, not me. My only Teacher is God.

29. At least the Holy Spirit has something to work with now to lead people into the truth, now that the bible is available the truth is somewhere.

cont.

Lillianna White said...

30. Your church is the one controlled by man; the pope!
Mine is controlled by God. That is how I entered His church and became part of it, by receiving Him.

31. Great, you need to continue seeking Him!

32. You do sound like you worship the Catholic church rather than the Lord and Savior.

33. You also tend to make many statements that sound very egotistical and assuming, saying things that only God would know, like the state of another's soul, etc. It is you who has begun saying such things and not me.

We can continue the merry go round as long as you like, but my stand will be with Jesus.

Love in Christ,
(:
Lillie
P.S. This is starting to be like the 95 thesis... (;

Catholic Mission said...



Lionel I find it absurd you are defending the Catholic church on a post where your Pope denies Jesus Christ directly allowing for Muslim and Talmudic prayers and refers to both religions which deny Jesus Christ as being fellow "brother" religions, see later post, and all followers of the same God. I mean what is it going to take for some of you to wake up? You love this institution far more then Jesus Christ because Jesus was direct denied by your Pope. Of course Rome has given you "another christ" in it's Eucharistic wafer. I have heard all these arguments for Roman Catholicism but it is still a false religion. It teaches now the same things the UUs taught me they are ripping that "Christian" façade off even more. Your beloved Catholic church can't follow the first commandment. It is the harlot, the creation of Satan himself to deceive those such as yourself. There is still time to come to Jesus Christ and BELIEVE IN HIM for your salvation, not Rome's rituals and lies and universalism of all religions.

Lionel:
I have mentioned that we believe in Jesus. Even the pope does. He has affirmed Jesus so many times.

Just like you he believes in Jesus.For you just believing in Jesus is enough.

So why complain about this and that of the pope.

You say that the Catholic religion is a false religion. Why ? Is not just beleiving in Jesus enough, according to your standard ?
Or must it be believing in Jesus with Protestant doctrines or in the Pentecostal or Evangelical Church?



Catholic Mission said...

Lionel I find it absurd you are defending the Catholic church on a post where your Pope denies Jesus Christ directly allowing for Muslim and Talmudic prayers and refers to both religions which deny Jesus Christ as being fellow "brother" religions, see later post, and all followers of the same God. I mean what is it going to take for some of you to wake up? You love this institution far more then Jesus Christ because Jesus was direct denied by your Pope. Of course Rome has given you "another christ" in it's Eucharistic wafer. I have heard all these arguments for Roman Catholicism but it is still a false religion. It teaches now the same things the UUs taught me they are ripping that "Christian" façade off even more. Your beloved Catholic church can't follow the first commandment. It is the harlot, the creation of Satan himself to deceive those such as yourself. There is still time to come to Jesus Christ and BELIEVE IN HIM for your salvation, not Rome's rituals and lies and universalism of all religions.

Lionel:
I have mentioned that we believe in Jesus. Even the pope does. He has affirmed Jesus so many times.

Just like you he believes in Jesus.For you just believing in Jesus is enough.

So why complain about this and that of the pope.

You say that the Catholic religion is a false religion. Why ? Is not just beleiving in Jesus enough, according to your standard ?
Or must it be believing in Jesus with Protestant doctrines or in the Pentecostal or Evangelical Church?

Catholic Mission said...

14. Lionel, Lionel... now you are putting words in my mouth. I have said over and again that I don't advocate for any denomination, Protestant ones included, remember?


But you are using Protestant doctrines and Pentecostal forms of prayer and a Catholic Bible...

Lillianna White said...

Lionel,

We born again believers believe in Jesus and His word, no more, no less. But the Catholic church adds and takes away, in contradiction to the bible, that is our issue with the CC. The pope says it is okay to be gay, atheist, and still be saved. He has stated that islam is a valid religion and calls muslims his 'brothers.' I could go on and on but if you have seen BB's postings under these categories, you can't miss it.
Like she just said, the idolatry, etc.

For us it is just the bible, period. Yes, Protestants call it sola scriptura, but because that is all we have been given by God. It cuts down on the confusion with all these people claiming something with no basis for it, the foundation and authority is the bible to decide if a thing is valid or not.

So, we use the bible as our foundation and if others line up in some things, great, and of course this will happen, there are things Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, etc. all agree on, like the deity of Christ. But that doesn't make us 'Catholics,' 'Protestants' or put us into any other box. That does not mean we agree on that group with everything and now 'belong to them.' We are not following them, we just so happen to all follow that item of the bible in that case (like the deity, etc.).

I don't know what you mean by Pentecostal forms of prayer.
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit at my conversion to Christ, and the bible speaks of the baptism of the Holy Spirit (and it did actually happen to people too), so again, it's a bible thing, not a 'Pentecostal' thing. Pentecostals do acknowledge this experience but they ended up on a runaway train with the speaking in tongues issue which they have carried to unbiblical proportions. As soon as anyone says anything about such an experience with God suddenly they get out that big 'Pentecostal' label for you, forgetting that the early church in the bible had such experiences, not only on the day of Pentecost.

Lionel, please consider these things. Many people get too wrapped up on a name/label or institution and miss the train altogether.

Also, consider this example:

A certain man starts a fellowship club. They need a meeting place. The group buys a house for this. He leaves behind a set of guidelines for the club members. He goes away on business for a long time. In the meantime, new generations have sprung up and new members have joined. Yet the original handbook is not acknowledged anymore and is tucked away in a cabinet. The new leaders make up new rules and remove others. They all are entered in a book as official members and go through a club initiation ceremony. After some time, someone finds the dusty old manuscript handbook and starts reading it. He discovers that almost nothing is done as originally intended. He brings this to the leader's attention, but he is ignored at best. So, he grabs a copy and goes outside of the house walls and a new fellowship springs up that keeps the original guidelines, even though the group is not recognized as 'official members,' while the 'official members' don't keep these guidelines.

So, when the certain man returns who began the club, and he sees two groups, one in the original 'house' under leadership succession and members that do not follow his guidelines, and then sees the faithful group of fellowship outside their 'membership,' but loyal to his guidelines, who do you think he will recognize as his club?

(Just given the two groups for this concept here.)

Catholic Mission said...

30. Your church is the one controlled by man; the pope!
Mine is controlled by God.
Lionel:
So you admit at least that you have a church.
You have a Church which uses Protestant doctrines and whose leaders criticize the Catholic Church.
This for you is being controlled by God.

That is how I entered His church and became part of it, by receiving Him.

Lionel:
Even in the Catholic Church we love Jesus even though there aren't Protestant doctrines, as in your church.

31. Great, you need to continue seeking Him!

Lionel:
I have found Him! I am not a seeker.


32. You do sound like you worship the Catholic church rather than the Lord and Savior.

Lionel:
I do not separate, in a sense, Jesus from His Mystical Body , the Catholic Church.
The church is divine in as much it has Jesus in it.There is the supernatural aspect of it.

33. You also tend to make many statements that sound very egotistical and assuming, saying things that only God would know, like the state of another's soul, etc. It is you who has begun saying such things and not me.

Lionel:
I ccanot read souls but the Church inspired by the Holy Spirit tells us that those outside the Church are on the way to Hell.You are still outside the Church.

We can continue the merry go round as long as you like, but my stand will be with Jesus.

Lionel:
Mine too!

In Christ
Lionel

Catholic Mission said...


Steve B

WHAT DOES THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACH ABOUT ISLAM: VATICAN COUNCIL II INDICATES THE PROPHET AND MUSLIMS ARE LOST
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-does-catholic-church-teach-about.html

atmo joyo said...

1 John 5:7-8
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 John 5:7 state clearly,Three that bear record in Heaven and bear 1 record
1 John 5:8 state clearly,Three that bear witness in earth and agree in 1 witness

The Record is ;
1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Jesus is not God. He is Son of God.
Jesus is The Word manifested in the flesh to bring salvation to them that believe on His name and call upon Him.
John 5:37-40 ;
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


BB, because I tell you about ebionite then you take conclusion i am follower Lew White
(Lew White only spoke " a little facts" about Nazareans)
It is not only Lew White who spoke Nazareans, you can find it in History Books and other sources.

There are MORE than 40 sects Gnostic Judaisme and Gnostic Christian ;
Nicolaitans, Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Therapeutae, Sethians, Zealots (Zadokite), Sicarii
Elcasaite, Cainites, Ophites, Pythagoraeans, Samaritans, Sebuaeans, Gorothenes, Dositheans, Hemerobaptists, Ossaeans
Herodians, Simonians, Menander, Satornilus, Basilides, Carpocratians, Cerinthians, Valentinians, Secundians, Ptolemaeans,
Marcosians, Colorbasians, Heracleonites, Archontics, Cerdonians, Marcionites, Lucianists, Apelleans, Severians, Tatianists
ETC
If I give you the details of every sects, what you gonna call me BB ?

Lilliana,what Bible you used ? catholic bible ? branch of Septuagint ?
Did I had explain in my My previous comment, Lilliana :

Jesus Christ in God The Father and God in Jesus Christ ;
John 14:10-11
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

God in Jesus Christ ;
Colossians 2:9
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Who deny God ?
Trinitarian, arians, origenist, pentecost, catholic and others who hold Trinity doctrine.

Bible Believer said...

Lionel so what if your Pope says he believes in Jesus. Obviously it is not the same jesus as I worship because he believes that Allah of Islam is God and the Bible says differently. Jesus also taught he was the one way. Your Pope does not affirm Jesus. He affirms a false "jesus" the Eucharist idol where all religions lead to god.

If he truly believed in Jesus and was born again, he would not say that Judaism that denies Jesus Christ and Islam are of God.

You have to believe in the right Jesus.

The one that said this...


John 14:6

King James Version (KJV)


6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Bible Believer said...

Lionel said this: "I ccanot read souls but the Church inspired by the Holy Spirit tells us that those outside the Church are on the way to Hell.You are still outside the Church."

I always find it funny how gung ho universalistic Catholics will tell the Bible-believer they are on the way to hell, but there is their Pope calling people who deny Jesus Christ "fellow brothers' in the faith.

Absurd.

Lionel your beliefs aren't even consistent.

Bible Believer said...

What are you Atmo?

You wrote this..."Jesus is not God. He is Son of God."

I can tell you that you are not a Christian.

There endless verses that say Jesus is God in the Bible.

Unless you are reading Jehovah Witness Bible you must be taking a scapel to the rest and cutting them out or something.

How on earth can you be reading this blog for so long, and then fall for the Jehovah Witness like lies?

I wish you had told us earlier. I know I get posters who "play Christian" and may even be NWO aware, and be out in left field to the max or here to sprinkle some truths and then some mighty lies.

I don't care about all the isms and mini-cults, and endless groups telling the same of all of Satan's lies. I may expose a few of them on here, but weird you even list a few I haven't heard of. Is this a history lesson meant to impress me and try to get me to deny Jesus Christ is God.

How on earth can you claim you are born again, and you get a CORE BASIC like that WRONG?

Sometimes during one of these moments I think to myself, how come so many online are into weirdo cults?

Hey guess what the Unitarian Universalist church got it's start with beliefs like yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism

"Unitarianism is a theological movement, named for its understanding of God as one person, in direct contrast to Trinitarianism, which defines God as three persons coexisting consubstantially as one being.[1] Unitarians maintain that Jesus is in some sense the "son" of God, but not the one God."

I guess you can see where that led them.

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

There are endless verses where it says Jesus is God.

Get away from that cult, go reread a Bible from front to back, and wake up.

I saw myself the NWO aware, Babylonian aware websites, that warned of the false religions, and gnostics, only to introduce GIANT LIES.

I am sorry you fell for this stuff.



Bible Believer said...

"WHAT DOES THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACH ABOUT ISLAM: VATICAN COUNCIL II INDICATES THE PROPHET AND MUSLIMS ARE LOST"

That is a flat out lie.

I've read Vatican II documents. I know you may believe this to be true sincerely but it is wrong.

Nostra Aetate

"3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."

Lillianna White said...

Lionel;

No, YOU are outside the church. I, along with other believers, ARE the church. That is the difference as well.

Atmo:

No, those who deny Jesus is God the Son deny God. I totally agree with BB regarding all she said to you too. You need to get a good bible translation and read it from cover to cover. What IT says is the only thing that matters. I wish all these commenters would just wake up and get that point.

On the pope:
The devil 'believes' in Jesus (God) and trembles. The muslims 'believe' in Jesus in another way, but not as the Scripture says. Some believe in His existence, but not IN HIM as scripture says, or they add to or take away. Not the same Jesus then. If the vatican councils contain all that, then why doesn't the pope, their LEADER, adhere to it rather than deny and contradict it by calling muslims 'brothers?' It's like good morning, no Catholics see a contradiction here?

Ah, nevermind, been responding as I scroll down and just saw that according to Catholic church doctrine, they accept the moslems!!! Hah! Isn't that a total scream, in their own documents and words, so this pope is going right along in perfect harmony with them... yet more proof that the Catholic church is going to lead up the end times one world religion married to the one world government; under the antichrist pope as the harlot that rides the beast (Rev.) and takes all those in her to hell!

'I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues...'
Rev. 18; 4

IN Christ,

Lillie

Catholic Mission said...

I've read Vatican II documents. I know you may believe this to be true sincerely but it is wrong.

Nostra Aetate

"3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."


Lionel:
We respect what is good and holy in Islam; the call to prayer, the moral code of Moses, etc just as we appreciate what is good and holy among 'born again' Christians.
In both cases the religion is not a path to salvation and as adults they need to convert into the Catholic Church.

Catholic Mission said...


Steve B said

The muslims 'are' his brothers. Jesuits & Freemasons are brothers of all religions.

Lionel:
We love all people because Jesus asks it of us.
Even when their religion is not a path to salvation, we do not condmen any one on earth.
We love all and try to tell them the truth, when possible, in charity.

Catholic Mission said...

Lilliana:

Jesus died once and for all, communion is not the body and blood, only symbolic
Matthew 26; 26-28, Mark 14; 22-24, Luke 22; 19-20, Hebrews 7; 27, 9; 12, 25-28, 10; 10,12,14,18, 1 Peter 3; 18

Not to worship Mary
Luke 11; 27-28

You must be born again as an adult
John 3, 1 Peter 1; 3, 23

Lionel:
These are born again doctrines. They are repeated by you and so many others since this is what you have been taught in your church ( community).

These are your official doctrines to remain a born again Christian.

They are false and were not there at the time of the Apostles and the Chruch Fathers.
In none of the writings of the Church Fathers are these doctrines mentioned.

Bible Believer said...

the church fathers are false, Jesus preached, "ye must be born again".

The Pope does not witness to any Muslims or false religions always asks them to pray to their false gods, for the benefit of the freemasonic one world religion.

It is a lie of Satan that there is anything good and holy in false religions.

Anonymous said...

BB- I would suggest that you pull the plug on this catholic and trinity denying garbage. You have tried to reason with them using the scriptures and they won't hear it. Don't allow them to continue spewing their poison on your fantastic blog!

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
-Titus 3:10-11 KJV

Lillianna White said...

Lionel,

Either way it is regardless, the pope is calling muslims 'brothers' and has made many recent statements that are inclusive and accepting of Islam, and that is against what the bible says. Either way there is a contradiction within the Catholic church (either with their own statements and the current actions, or with current actions, previous statements, and the bible.) (and many of each, but I'm trying to keep it simple here)

And yes, I choose the bible always.

And no, they all need to avoid the Catholic church and convert to Christianity.

Yes, we love them all, but that does not make them 'brothers' in the faith. We need to tell them the truth in love for their salvation, and until they accept it there is no fellowship in Christ.

Lionel,

No they are doctrines from the bible. Thus, they are true and to deny them is false. I have only learned them from the bible, not any church. And your doctrines are false, not those of the bible. Of course these doctrines were there, either in word or in writing. They are the words of Jesus and the apostles that ended up in their letters and thus... the bible.

I suggest you get a bible and read it.

That is another good point too by BB, that is the difference between a true Christian and a wolf:

A true Christian tells a person the truth about their false religion and the truth of what the bible says, using gracious words of love.

A false one just acts pious and lets them go on their path to hell and smiles as they do, or even encourages it as the pope does.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, no one is saved without Him. (John 14;6 and Acts 4; 12).

The Catholic church believes that the eucharist is transformed into the body and blood of Christ again by their priestly mystic rituals.

There is nothing good in any other religion (including the Catholic church!) they may talk of helping the poor or other virtues, but they won't lead you to salvation because they won't tell you that Jesus died for your sins and you must repent and all that the bible says about this, like being born again.

Also, remember what the Catholic church was guilty of? Torturing and martyring hundreds of people during the Reformations in Europe and countless other crimes against humanity. The martyrs were the saints of Jesus dying for the truth of His word and their persecutors were the heretics. So, tell me, is that brotherly love, or even loving our 'enemies'? No!

Honestly there is nothing else left to say about this and we keep going in circles on these things.

Jesus said 'you must be born again,' and Lionel you interpret that either in some false way (like infant baptism that contradicts the bible) or you ignore it altogether. I have been born again. It is in the bible. If any other denomination agrees with that doctrine, then they are correct on that issue and I do agree with them on at least that point. And so, what about it?

You are more concerned with the sayings of man than the sayings of God through His word; the bible. When they contradict, you obviously side with man and not God.

If you won't listen to Him, you won't listen to me either, so as far as this is concerned I am finished with the conversation.

You keep asserting the same claims, but with no foundation other than it's what someone in the CC has said, but it's not in the bible and even contradicts the bible. Thus your arguments don't hold water for me.

BB, he is all yours now!
(;

Bible Believer said...

Yes I'm done posting his stuff, sadly Atmos too. There is a point where we can witness but don't want to turn this into arguing message board. Atmo did not return to answer my last points. Thanks for responding to him other posters. Lillianna as much as you post here, I hope I don't find out you have some weird belief, I didn't know about like Atmo. Some of the Lew Whites or Nazarite or whatever he is, they can be tricky. I've been leaving off posts by Paul deniers and others and have to remember to keep track of which Orthies are defending that church endlessly too and are not new. With the Catholic church, most of them still in that mess are the ones so spiritually blind they would defend everything and anything and DO! We can't waste too much time on them. I thank you for the presented arguments, figure with this one I'd let people tell him the truth for a bit.

Lillianna White said...

Hi BB!

I was worried that you would be worried about that! (;
I had this nagging feeling the other day to say this but thought better of it because I didn't want you thinking I was weird too...
((; lol

But no worries, there is nothing weird like that about me and you can bet on it that I will never pop up and spring some weird stuff. Ever.
(: Only the good stuff. I really am a real legit one here.
I can get quirky (God knows!) and have a crazy sense of humor, and a passion for things, but that's it. I go by the bible all the way. I always listen if someone says something doesn't line up with the bible, but if it's in there... it's in there.

I think the only thing we ever disagreed on was the stuff about the Reformation people. I think some was definitely legit and of God (like getting away from the CC and bringing out the bible, etc.), and sure, some was misguided or imperfect, and/or still influenced by the CC, some was probably controlled opp, and some influence has crept in later and a combination of things like that. But I resign to the thought that some things we just can't know now and that is fine with me, no need to argue about it, eh?

But yes, these guys just don't get it and maybe never will, we kept going around the merry go round on the same things. I was trying to shed the light on these issues in the hopes that they were just misguided on things, even in need of salvation and the true gospel, but they were unrelenting and there is just so much you can say. Plus, they were really getting aggressive and attacking even though I was being gracious (though I got tougher later).

You are welcome for everything and I just see it as we are doing our duty in sharing the truth with them the best we can.

Love and God's blessings to you sister! (: Thank you for this ministry and keep up the good work!
P.S. Eh, you're okay... ! (;
And don't worry... I'm not one of these weirdos. God bless you for having the patience for all those kooks! (:

Anonymous said...

First one must understand that Children of Israel never view Holy Spirit as God. Except for some Hellenistic Jew from Tarsus and Roman Fathers.

One shall also bear in mind; Holy Spirit is referred with title God's Spirit, and never be referred with the term God. But then again, we cant blame the Romans Christians as their language were not aramaic nor hebrew. Thus confusion occurs as they were not guided by any Jewish followers of Jesus when reading Israelite scriptures.

Now lets reread the verse in Gen1:1-2.

God created the heavens and earth. But Holy Spirit only hovers on water. No where does it mentions Spirit involved in creating Heaven and Earth. But rather the verse imply that after Heaven and Earth were created. Only then Holy Spirit able to descend down to earth or do some jobs in heaven as commanded by Almighty God.

The verse also tells that Holy Spirit is limited in power as the Spirit can only exist below the realm of God, not in the same realm of God. Thus only able to hover over the waters created by Almighty God.

Hope it clears the misunderstanding that Holy Spirit is God. Again it is important to note that no past prophets from the times of 7 Laws (Noah) to 10 Laws all (Israelite prophets) ever view or taught Holy Spirit as God.

Bible Believer said...

You have some very strange beliefs about the Holy Spirit. I almost did not post your comment because I have enough atheists and cultists to deal with here. I am curious WHAT CULT DENIES THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT is GOD?

That is a NEW one to me!

The Holy Spirit can speak and does so in the book of Acts. He is not a vague or impersonal "force".

Your cult is teaching you wrong.

TruthInLove said...

It doesn't matter what anyone else says about it, the Holy Spirit IS God according to THE BIBLE.

See: Ephesians 4; 4-6, 2 Cor. 3; 16-18

Is a person, a "He":
John 14; 26, Romans 8; 16, 26

Again, confirming the doctrine of the Trinity.

We are Christians and go by the New Testament, which includes the epistles of Paul the Apostle (of Tarsus).

What others were not aware of at former times is not relevant here, God has His timetable for revealing truth.

What outside groups, such as 'Hebrew roots' believe, is also of no relevance to us, we stand on the Old and New Testaments.