Saturday, May 10, 2014

M is a nod to Masonry



This graphic says it all. Yes that is a hand sign that one can see all over the place.

 



Other masonic hand signs

70 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think its an art thing, it can be seen in artwork way before masonry was even created. . .

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/1590_or_later_Marcus_Gheeraerts%2C_Sir_Francis_Drake_Buckland_Abbey%2C_Devon.jpg


http://necspenecmetu.tumblr.com/post/31326295964/giovanni-battista-langetti-a-philosopher-17th

http://www.reocities.com/eero67/costuming/paintings/1551venice_mmedici.jpg

http://03varvara.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/el-greco-domenikos-theotkopoulos-a-knight-with-his-hand-on-his-chest-1580-e1279186680315.jpg

Anonymous said...

Also, Guy on the right in that image is Christopher Columbus, not Loyola . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

FaithGuy3 said...

"I think its an art thing, it can be seen in artwork way before masonry was even created. . ."

Yes, this is how these artists telegraph their punches - via their "messages" in their artwork. It's not like they do these paintings b/c they have nothing else better to do. It's also no different from other types of media like movies, music, books, etc where they telegraph a lot of their "messages" as well.

And yes - those on the national stage in the world system will communicate LIKE THIS(ie-showing off masonic symbols, etc).

Anonymous said...

It's not just an "art" thing, as the first (anonymous) poster said. They do it on purpose.

Even in movies today, they set body postures and camera angles to get things a certain way, to send messages. They have always done it, and this "art" is not just art. It is messages of freemasonry (satanism).

Bible Believer said...

I've taken advanced college level art history classes, it is not an "art thing" that is nonsense. Even if one wants to time the masonry to a certain date, before then were the mystery schools and their symbols.

Some of the art subjects could have been painted that way by artists in the know....

There are entire collections of pictures of celebrities making this hand symbol.

While perhaps on occasion this could be camera angle or someone placing a hand innocently a certain way, it's too obvious and just try and set your hand that way by "accident" if it's a direct on picture. It also occurs way too much...and at times you will see them cross the two middle fingers.

With the video I think they overreached on a few of the hand signs but the obvious ones are there too.

Warning on video-some immodestly dressed celebrities....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25W6QD5kbts

Bible Believer said...

agree that is Christopher Columbus...

Anonymous said...

I'm not talking about the modern pop stars etc, but those 14,15,16 century paintings, surely there wasn't a global secret society in those times, are you telling me that sir Francis Drake, who ravaged the Catholic world was a member of a mystery school? Or maybe Martin Luther was a freemason(yes I perfectly known about his errors and that the Lutheran church is a daughter of Babylon)?

http://www.wikigallery.org/wiki/painting_228530/Lucas-The-Elder-Cranach/Portrait-of-Martin-Luther-as-an-Augustinian-Monk




"There are entire collections of pictures of celebrities making this hand symbol."

So what is the significance of the symbol? Isn't the allegiance of those celebrities made sufficiently clear by the messages they are disseminating? Why waste time on their postures, hand signs etc, when their mouths themselves blaspheme the living God?

Anonymous said...

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/scotland/images/king_james.jpg

david said...

I'm not talking about the modern pop stars etc, but those 14,15,16 century paintings, surely there wasn't a global secret society in those times, are you telling me that sir Francis Drake, who ravaged the Catholic world was a member of a mystery school? Or maybe Martin Luther was a freemason(yes I perfectly known about his errors and that the Lutheran church is a daughter of Babylon)?


The mystery schools, freemasons, brotherhood of the dragon (insert name of choice) etc,. have been around since the days of nimrod in one form or another and even the days of tubal-cain. They all prescribe to "the ancient hope" "sacred promise" "the great work" or " the new world order". Honestly, this stuff is pretty easy to confirm. Do a little research on the "new atlantis" "the hidden hand" "left hand path" "right hand path". New Babylon is the goal. Pretty sure most readers of this blog are aware of this, so, are you here in an attempt to cause division or do you really not know?

Anonymous said...


"The mystery schools, freemasons, brotherhood of the dragon (insert name of choice) etc,. have been around since the days of nimrod in one form or another and even the days of tubal-cain"

I really don't know. What possible division could I make? But please be honest, do you think Martin Luther, Queen Elizabeth and King James were members of those mystery schools(whatever you believe them to be)then?

If anything its a more cryptic, religious symbol for the nursing/lactating goddess at least in SOME contexts:

http://www.darkfiber.com/pz/abpreface.html

This jesuit educated guy explores that theory. . .

Anonymous said...

David – The Bible has virtually a pass-over mention of Nimrod in it so be careful to not scold people who merely want to question (like Anonymous did about art from the 14, 15 and 16th centuries) something that you happen to believe that is not substantiated to the degree you are perpetuating it anywhere in the Bible. The Bible is our only 100% true source and since its silent about Nimrod’s role in the magical arts/origins of Masonry, then you are obviously drawing all of your “knowledge” from extra Biblical sources. Also, if this forum doesn’t allow Anonymous to voice her opinion or ask some questions without being called “divisive”, then we have a cult environment on our hands. I personally thought she was being quite nice in her expression of her thoughts/questions but in your post you sounded like one of those overly controlling preachers that don’t allow the lay people to question their teachings or beliefs. Also Anonymous doesn’t have to be “new here” to have a different opinion in some things from the majority of what is shared here, I also happen to once in a while differ in opinion a little from others who are main bloggers here. So maybe you owe Anonymous an apology for ripping on her? I personally happen to think you do. But if you don't, I would like to at least feel this is a safe place to interact with other Bible believers and wanted to express my thoughts on this. Lori

david said...

Hi Lori-

I am curious, what bible do you read? Perhaps you read a watered down version of the bible, like a niv or amplified. seems to me you may get easily offended as well. I seem to remember you and lilianna having some discord a few posts back....maybe I am wrong. Genesis 10 and 11 is a pass over mention of nimrod to you? when you read of the evil happening in Kings 1 or 2, or Daniel or Ezekiel do you discern a connection to the days of nimrod? Do you discern the evolution of the mysteries from the tower of Babylon and onwards? Do you think God coming down to confound the languages of mankind in order to get them to stop building "the tower" is a pass over mention of some mundane event? What about Solomons temple? Was it not compromised and turned the truth of God into a lie? What is this scripture referring to:

Romans 1:20-25

King James Version (KJV)


20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Paul is referring to the tower of babel during nimrod's time.
It is unfortunate that you have taken offense at my post and felt the need to rush to Anon's defense. The internet is full of cointel pro, divisive, hidden hand agents. We do not have to tolerate it. As I said in my first post maybe Anon just doesn't know....in which case I hope anon searched out a few of my search suggestions. Do an image search for "hidden hand" and look at all of the 14, 15 ang 16th century artwork displaying a hidden hand, then look at what freemasons like manly p. hall and albert mackey have written about the hidden hand and what it is....Perhaps we can discount this as extra-biblical and therefore nonsense....Who are the men in Acts 6:9?

david said...

...just who is the god of this world that took Jesus to the top of that mountain and shewed him the kingdoms of the world? Who are the men in Ezekiel 8? Just what is going on in that temple? A great many "Christians" today have a very naïve world view that upon examination wouldn't be scripturally accurate. Satan has been working since before the garden to subvert God's creation and His plan. Even in the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries he was laying groundwork...Take Job 1, whats satan doin? Walking to and fro across the earth. Is that it, or can we discern that there was a little more happening in his travels? What does God mean in Hosea 4:6? Is there a deeper symbolic meaning to what is happening with the veil in Mark 15:38 or Matthew 27:51? the god of this world is currently in charge of: the space program, wall street, education, industry, Hollywood, the crown, the Vatican, the pentagon, religion and all governments, corporations etc., etc., we will do well to remember that. Who deceives the nations? Of course the Creator, our heavenly Father is sovereign over all of it Romans 8:28 and Genesis 50:20....The veil is coming off....If you take offense at my "preaching" oh well...

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for commenters response, Ill be simple in my response here, there are good people in this world who find it too overwhelming to believe/acknowledge that this world is run by luciferians and always has been so. I know this belief is "too much" for many people. They find it absurd that the people they were taught to look up to in school really could have been work "on the dark side". Why does the Bible warn us about Satan being the prince of this world. I do agree with the last commenter that Christians are very naïve. Yes Satan was laying groundwork in the 14th, 15th, 16th centuries. The royals have been marked with the occult for CENTURIES. Order of the Garter, Knights, Knights Hospitalleer and all. The Pope as Holy Roman Emperor and their "leader". Yes the nations are deceived, too many are vested in the world system and defense of it. Those who grow powerful and famous often sold themselves to this system. The Bible warns of these things all through out it. I would ask too What Bible are you reading?

atmo joyo said...

Masons ;

John Clifford of Southwark, who had been master of the London Masons’ Company in 1386,
The Regius and the Cooke manuscripts were made for, and used by, working masons.
Masonic documents known as the Old Charges, dating from the Regius Poem in about 1425
The Lodge of Edinburgh (Mary's Chapel) No.1 is a Masonic Lodge in Edinburgh,Scotland under the Grand Lodge of Scotland.
It is number 1 on the Roll, and as it possesses the oldest minute of any masonic lodge in existence (July 1599)

These were the Illuminati ;

- The conventual Franciscan “sect of the Spirit of Freedom” arose in central Italy and Provence
December 16, 1221 as the earliest date of Franciscan “sect of the Spirit of Freedom”

- Historian found the name alumbrados as early as 1492 (in the form aluminados, 1498),
and traced the group to a Gnostic origin.
Their views were promoted in Spain through influences from Italy.

- The alumbrados shared some ideas with a movement known simply as Durango.
Durango came about in the 1440s under the leadership of the Franciscan Fray Alfonso de Mella in town of Durango,
located near Bilbao in the Basque country.

- The movement (under the name of Illuminés) reached France from Seville in 1623,
and attained some following in Picardy when joined (1634) by Pierce Guerin.

- Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1, 1776
Illuminati today from the original Bavarian Illuminati.


Jesuit,masons,illuminati get the symbols (words,numbers,handsign) from Kabbalah

The Cabala is not new, of course. It's been around for centuries.The Cabala is actually ancient magic.

Caballistic have always had a propensity to search out what they call the esoterics of words,numbers,handsign;
especially words and numbers found in caballistic sacred literature.

Kabbalism is itself derived from the sorcery of ancient Babylon (Chaldean Magic).
Cabalism are based on a curious blending and mosaic of astrology, numerology, graphology, color magic, symbology,
alchemy, pagan religion, and pure Luciferianism
There are hand signs and body gestures, talismanic jewelry and clothing, hidden codes etc


Bible call these "curious arts" in Acts 19:19

Acts 19:19-20
19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men:
and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer,

I'm reading the King James Bible.

david:

"The internet is full of cointel pro, divisive, hidden hand agents. We do not have to tolerate it. As I said in my first post maybe Anon just doesn't know....in which case I hope anon searched out a few of my search suggestions."

Agreed, but still, is doubt thats cast on a hand symbol capable of destroying anyone's faith? I don't know what the sign means, but I have searched and provided an alternative exlanation(even if by a jesuit guy) that is even more in line with a biblical worldview and would not conflict with protestant theologians and aristocracy making that sign, being ignorant of its true meaning. (lactating goddess symbol) A satanic perversion of 1 Thess 2:7.

"Paul is referring to the tower of babel during nimrod's time."

Are you dogmatic on this? Isn't this just a general statement on idolatry? My question would be - was or was not sodomy present before the flood?

"Do you discern the evolution of the mysteries from the tower of Babylon and onwards?"

And how would one "discern" these things again, without simply accepting a body of information be it labelled "biblical interpretation"? Is every bible believer obliged to discern the whole totality of conspiracy information out there? To be clear, I believe there is a global conspiracy with Satan and the vatican running the parade, but how do you know your "brand" of conspiracy for the mysteries etc is the most correct? You presume *we* do not read the KJB or believe that the world lieth in wickedness.

Again, are King James, queen Elizabeth I and Martin Luther members of secret societies associated with Nimrod?

"Perhaps we can discount this as extra-biblical and therefore nonsense....Who are the men in Acts 6:9?"

I think it is self evident from the text:

"...certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia"

I am aware of the Alexandrian sect and its influence.

I don't know why we are even contending about this, but you are throwing straw men and claiming monopoly on the truth.

"the god of this world is currently in charge of: the space program, wall street, education, industry, Hollywood, the crown, the Vatican, the pentagon, religion and all governments, corporations etc., etc., we will do well to remember that. Who deceives the nations? Of course the Creator, our heavenly Father is sovereign over all of it Romans 8:28 and Genesis 50:20."

I agree on this, but it is irrelevant to the discussion. If you'd really like a discussion and not a chain of confirmative posts, that is. Regardless of what you may know, you need to let go of the false dichotomy of "us" and "them" or "we who know the truth" and "they who are blind". Remember, in the best case scenario we can agree on almost every jot of God's will(the Bible) but Satan is a god of confusion so we might be going after false leads, truth mixed with falsehood etc. . . There is no shame in that. . .If you are right, well, fine. I humbly apologize if I have offended you.

God bless

Anonymous said...

The guy/gal that keeps insisting that the middle ages didn't have mystery schools, that person is very ignorant.

Luther was a false teacher, and so of course he was on the other side. They did the art to reflect the masonry. These mystery schools existed all the way back to Egypt. So that person needs to learn.

david said...

hi bb-

I read the original authorized kjv bible unless iam researching the countless errors and manipulations in the watered down and deceptive versions.

so I checked this link that anon recommends...


"http://www.darkfiber.com/pz/abpreface.html

This jesuit educated guy explores that theory. . . "

is the fact that he is Jesuit educated supposed to lend him credibility?

ALL "art" is graven imagery. literally, mankind can do NOTHING on its own....Jeremiah 51:17

Bible Believer said...

I was in a hurry yesterday and didn't check that link yet, let me go look...

Jesuit educated unless he has decried the Catholic church since then like Catholic school educated me, means less credibility.....

I do not see art itself as inherently evil--unless one is breaking second commandment but definitely the art world has been influenced and for centuries too. These are the power brokers with commissioned art works.

I saw the website, kind of odd,

"through comparing similar gestures and iconographical scenes, to breastfeeding images of goddesses, e.g., the Virgin Mary, Hera, and Isis, nursing male infants"

What does breastfeeding have to do with hand gestures, that one sees in non-breastfeeding paintings?

Obviously whoever wrote this stuff, believes in the false "universalism" "universal savior" "one world religion, all paths lead to god" Catholic ecumenical worship of the queen of heaven nonsense.

"Isis always holds her breast with a cupped hand, whereas the Virgin Mary uses both the cupped hand to hold her breast and the pseudo-zygodactylous gesture to offer her nipple to the infant Jesus. This dyadic encounter between sacred Mother and sacred infant, between Mary and Jesus, offers a very broad range of interpretation: maternity and the maternal-child bond,220 matrisexuality and a child's intimacy with its mother,221 the Madonna's "homey simplicity and unpretentious accessibility,"222 sympathy and humility,223 an anticipatory basis for Mary's "authority to intercede for mankind,"224 erotic and sensual delight,225 orality,226 an "explicit objectification of ... personal and collective anxiety [over] ... the uncertainty of food supply,"227 and explicit proof of Jesus Christ's human incarnation."

http://www.darkfiber.com/pz/chapter6.html

Bible Believer said...

Why would any born again Christian take that website seriously?

They don't even have the basics discerned....it advances false Catholic theology.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for information too atmo it goes all the way back.

Bible Believer said...

"Regardless of what you may know, you need to let go of the false dichotomy of "us" and "them" or "we who know the truth" and "they who are blind". "

Doesn't the bible tell us there are those who are blind?



Matthew 15:14

King James Version (KJV)


14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

What is your specific point here?

Anonymous said...

"What does breastfeeding have to do with hand gestures, that one sees in non-breastfeeding paintings?"

...the hand holding the breast with the pseudo-zygodactylous gesture being a cryptic nod to MARIOLATRY? And other instances of pseudo-zygodactylous- gestures being either unintentional or a traditional gesture (for reason unknown to the model and/or painter) required by the painter (maybe passed as a tradition down from the renaissance schools, that were religious/mariolaters?)

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/greco/knight-hand-breast.jpg

"Doesn't the bible tell us there are those who are blind?"

Bible Believer, i'm referring to strifes and contending among bible believers, not saved/unsaved. And rabidly retaliating against any criticism to the established dogma(and a dogmatic atmosphere can be felt here). The Word is the standart of doctrine and belief, not some dim, unsubstantiated, associatively derived generalization about symbols that does not weigh a nanogram in significance outside our ruminations.

"Why would any born again Christian take that website seriously?

They don't even have the basics discerned....it advances false Catholic theology."

I'm not taking anything pertaining to theology in it seriously, why would you assume that? If anyone is incapable of seeing through religious agendas, they shouldn't venture. . .

"The guy/gal that keeps insisting that the middle ages didn't have mystery schools, that person is very ignorant.

Luther was a false teacher, and so of course he was on the other side. They did the art to reflect the masonry. These mystery schools existed all the way back to Egypt. So that person needs to learn."

1 Corinthians 8:2
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.


Luther was honest about his beliefs. He was a false teacher in that he taught bad doctrine, but he wasn't "on the other side". He wanted people to know Christ. Without Luther you wouldn't have a bible in your hands. Rome would hunt you down in every cave and field to cut your heretic throat. Millions of germans would have perished in hell. Luther's bible translation is the second or third best translation available in any language. Yes, protestants are not bible believers. But do you think that if you were brought up in the academia of Catholicism in the 15th century you would fare better than Luther - y/n? If anything protestantism gave true bible believers space to breathe. Perhaps you need a change of perspective.

And do you know that OUR cherished 1611 version is translated by a company of baby-sprinkling protestants. Did you even see the picture of King James exhibiting the "mystery school" hand sign?

For the record, I'm no protestant, however bigotry against protestants is reminiscent of the Catholic rhetoric against us heretics.

I'm done with this discussion, please don't throw more accusations in my face.

Bible Believer said...

Are you a bible believer or a Lutheran?

Let's make that clear.

It's a strawman that you claim that I am being "dogmatic" about the NWO or exposures related to it.

I believe grannies who were saved and love Jesus Christ and never heard of the new world order, are still born again

So I never made such a claim.

It sounds like you want to muddy the waters and dug up the most obscure weird website you could.

And then add to that the whole message of "how dare you talk about these symbols or matters!"

I've heard that one plenty of times, and they expand that one way beyond exposing Satan's markers into exposing false gospels and teachings.

You offered the website, which is full of Catholic Marian theology as some "proof", all I see is a website full of obscure false Catholic theology and even bit off the range for them.

How did Luther want people to know Christ when he stuck to sacraments?

He is the reason that right now we have people entrenched in the false church system, thinking sacraments and going to church will save them. Sure some are saved even with these churches, but that is in spite of Luther retaining 80% of the Catholic baggage. My husband was raised Lutheran so I am quite familiar with it.

Your claims of bigotry towards Protestants is nonsense. That is the usual arguments who claim anyone speaking truth about Catholicism is a bigot.

Bible Believer said...

By the way the M hand sign does go with "goddess worship". So why do you think it is okay?

You don't realize yet Rome worships the queen of heaven in Jer 44?

And Isis is just another "name"?

freemasonary nods to the goddess too. Surprise Surprise

As I have written here for a long time, Satan's lies are the same all over.

david said...

The finished work of God was on the cross. It is finished. We are waiting and living. everything is satans domain now....everything... except what is God's. Ephesians 6:12 describes the spiritual reality of life that we cannot see. For a good example of this reality that is behind the veil see, 2 Kings 6:14-18.

We were all born into this matrix of lies and letting go of some truth and facts can be difficult but it is pride that keeps us from the scary truth of what the world really is. But we are directed to be salt and light and be free because we know the truth. we gotta let go of all the jewish myth and fable and masonic deceptions that we hold as truth....

Anon we are leagues apart on our world view already. you seem a bit predatory or if you have no hidden agenda, maybe you just do not want to separate from the world and its stuff. ?

sorry for the poor grammar etc.,

"m" is also a nod to "13" being the 13th letter..

Anonymous said...

OY. I'm going to stop eating M&M's.

Aka Alert

Anonymous said...

Are you a bible believer or a Lutheran?

Let's make that clear.

I'm a bible believer, but I appreciate the freedom and the Bible that Protestantism gave bible believers.

"It's a strawman that you claim that I am being "dogmatic" about the NWO or exposures related to it."

But in a sense, you are. It is transpiring as this discussion is going along. You are healthily vigilant and sober, which is good. But ultimately a tad too suspicious to be constructive. There's a feeling of being unwelcome without the member card of complete consent in this blog. Sorry.

"It sounds like you want to muddy the waters and dug up the most obscure weird website you could."


Okay, so what I have dug up is obscure....is it so, because it requires reading between the lines at times and further research?


"And then add to that the whole message of "how dare you talk about these symbols or matters!"

Not just talk but talk with a rather vehement tone. Doctrine is crucial. Separation is vital. But we are getting into vain babblings territory reply after reply(my replies included).

"How did Luther want people to know Christ when he stuck to sacraments?"

He stuck to sacraments, however he stresses the absolute need of belief in Christ's atoning death in almost all of his writings.

"He is the reason that right now we have people entrenched in the false church system, thinking sacraments and going to church will save them. Sure some are saved even with these churches, but that is in spite of Luther retaining 80% of the Catholic baggage. My husband was raised Lutheran so I am quite familiar with it. "

Fair enough, these are stumbling blocks, but how many have been saved, having been shined upon by the glorious oracles of God?
Furthermore, he's the reason you have(or had) a bible and a free country in the first place.
Satan would bamboozle people to think that they are saved by any other means but Christ in every denomination. Do you know how many baptists believe they are saved b/c of their baptism(even in the non acts 2:38/water dog churches)?

"By the way the M hand sign does go with "goddess worship". So why do you think it is okay?"

The Satanic cult of the goddess is something I reject in its totality. Its not OK, but some of those historical figures weren't aware of its significance. And its sometimes more of a natural, sporadic position of the fingers, for example when the hand is on the waist. Hard to say when it is intentional, when not and whether the painter required it or not.

"Anon we are leagues apart on our world view already. you seem a bit predatory or if you have no hidden agenda, maybe you just do not want to separate from the world and its stuff. ?"

david, I do separate from the world. I'm considered "strange", as any conscious christian. Our worldviews are probably 90%+ identical. Trouble is these 10% aren't really our spiritual bread and butter to justify digging as large a chasm we are digging between us now. Deeds of darkness need be shined upon by the light and exposed, but these deeds are any work and imagination contrary to the Word, and are not explicitly expressed as to their temporal, spacial and nominal particulars for a reason. We can only go as far as to categorize, or we risk turning the Bible into nothing more than a historical narrative, which it is, but not only, being a revelation about humanity's relationship(or lack thereof) with God, replete with images, types and pointers.

Anonymous said...

The jesuit educated person of that website OPENLY admits that 'christian' or rather catholic art is inspired by pagan art, so we have no issue there. I never said "embrace, do or love this gesture". . .

The other promulgated theory is for a "jewish" or 'judaistic' inspiration for it, the binding of the commandments to one's hand and head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tefillin-shel-yad-underside.jpg

Regardless of this being just another vain jewish tradition(or an actual cryptic worshipping of Ashtoreth, which would tie in even more with the "gentile" significance of the sign). . . it would be logical for the mystery schools to adopt the gesture from the jews either as an act of defiance against God's law and/or as a syhmbol of a heart devoted to Mary(Istar), not God's Christ (lactating goddess <-> receiving saint)for obtaining righteousness. And to then perpetuate the symbol in art as a nod to goddess worship using aware and unaware celebrities(masonry if you wish).

Anonymous said...

IF you understand "mystery schools" as the powers that be. In the end all this babble turns out to be me not clarifying that all I'm claiming is that those 14,15,16,17 etc century figures are not always aware of the significance of the gesture and that SOMETIMES it is just a natural position of the fingers. That's why I said it's an art thing. It supposed to be cryptic, hidden, understood only by some EVEN among the "celebrities". It was passed down through the ages in the art schools, which too were not always instructed in their truth. The political and religious systems of the 14,15,16 centuries weren't parts of a whole, and some were PROTESTING against the 666 papal system.

atmo joyo said...

People try to rationalise things good or bad based on public opinions.
Newspaper,television,film,radio,musis etc so influential in influencing public opinions.

Devil's puppets owns ; Newspapers,music industries,Film industries,Televisions,Artists,educations etc.
Devil and his puppets NOT give people these news and entertainments for free Of course they had hidden agenda.

Hand signs,body gestures,talismanic jewelry,clothing, hidden codes,words,number etc are satanic in origin,
contains such power and demonic teaching, it is more than enough to lead the world astray.

BUT many christians said no problem with all these symbols.



MALACHI 2:17
17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say,
Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or,Where is the God of judgment?

Bible Believer said...

Anon, I am not sure what your point is. Don't talk about these things? We have to admit Luther is the same as a born again Christian? I don't know if you are being serious or just trying to sow dissent here. I do not expect everyone to agree with my theories regarding the NWO, some posts are examinations. Go back to Christian Post or some other blog Phoenix Pastor or something where you won't be bothered by posts that get a little bit too "deep" or "weird" for you.

As for the Protestants, we are already separated in the way you see Protestantism. Didn't you ever read the warnings about the daughters in the bible? I find myself thinking you are still stuck in the Protestant blinders, ignoring the fact that most Protestant churches are following after Rome and now in full daughter mode.

All I know is just about most denominations in America sent a representative to bow before the Pope when Benedict came here.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/daughters-protestant-churches-1-altars.html

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/04/daughters-of-rome-2-calendars-of.html

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-daughters-protestant-churches-3.html

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/re-daughter-protestant-article.html

I consider Luther a heretic. He came into some truth. God used those things for good in the Protestant reformation, but even Luther marked himself in other ways. Surely you know Luther had those Rosicrucian symbols.

Bible Believer said...

The signs and symbols of the Luciferians overlap between many flavors of Mystery Babylon. Don't you even realize Mystery Babylon is in Protestantism when they cling to the false church calendars and Asoterth rituals such as believing 'god' is in the wafer. Even the Lutherans believe in a watered down version of Transubstantiation.

Bible Believer said...

Anon we do have a chasm, you seem to support the daughters who will be just as antichrist as Rome.
"Deeds of darkness need be shined upon by the light and exposed, but these deeds are any work and imagination contrary to the Word, and are not explicitly expressed as to their temporal, spacial and nominal particulars for a reason."

I am curious, the Bible may not specifically warn against freemasonary, but if the warnings against paganism, idolatry, false gods are in the bible then we are merely applying the Bible when we say it is evil and sin to be a member of a lodge and one needs to come out of there and repent.

I have for many years had many types tell me "not to go there", even for the most basic idea such as having nothing to do with a Roman Catholic daughter church that is ecumenical.

So is that what you are trying to sell in a round about way?

And if we discern something is evil, why not warn? Whose drawing the lines, you? or God?

In your case if you consider yourself a bible believer you need to rethink the defenses of Luther and correct yourself on the whole Protestant thing.

The MAJORITY are daughters.

Even the most conservative Lutheran denomination in America WELS, clings to false BIble versions and preaches that the wafer is "jesus" literally though not as extreme as the Roman Catholic church.

You are missing the forest for some very little trees.

Bible Believer said...

Wels even considers the Pope the Antichrist so ask yourself why the sacramentalism remains in these churches?

Anonymous said...

Someone wrote: "Without Luther you wouldn't have a bible in your hands"

Oh my!! What a crazy statement, what a satanic statement.

First of all, the Bible is from GOD.

Second, Luther didn't do any such thing with the Bible. He didn't help bring it to the people, he didn't teach it right, and he actually caused people then, and now, to end up in hell due to his false gospel of works.

Why do people believe revisionist "history" of catholicism/protestantism?

People just love the doctrines, teachings, and traditions of man.

Bible Believer said...

Oh I so agree!

God preserved His Word

NOT MAN.

The Protestant Reformation was of man.

MEN WALKING AS TREES.

23And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. 26And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

Did God use aspects of it sure, but some do not realize the TRUTH. They elevate the Protestant Reformation to a place it does not belong. PROTESTANT, even the NAME was dictated by the Catholic church.

The MAJORITY daughters, yes I want to ask why do people believe the revisionist history of Catholicism/Protestantism...




Steve B said...

Anon @ 5/13 10:56pm

"I'm a bible believer, but I appreciate the freedom and the Bible that Protestantism gave bible believers."

Even the demons believe this, what is your point? They love their freedom all the way to hell.

"There's a feeling of being unwelcome without the member card of complete consent in this blog"

Consent in this blog or consent in the Word of God? God did not come to bring peace, but a sword. To turn father against son, and mother against daughter, for His Namesake.

"[Luther] stuck to sacraments, however he stresses the absolute need of belief in Christ's atoning death in almost all of his writings."

Demons even know this...why does that make Luther Christian and/or good? More fruit need to be examined besides "speech".

"how many have been saved, having been shined upon by the glorious oracles of God?"

Zero. Only the Holy Spirit saves.

"he's the reason you have(or had) a bible and a free country in the first place."

Wrong, God is the reason.

Anonymous said...

"
Oh my!! What a crazy statement, what a satanic statement.

First of all, the Bible is from GOD.

Second, Luther didn't do any such thing with the Bible. He didn't help bring it to the people, he didn't teach it right, and he actually caused people then, and now, to end up in hell due to his false gospel of works."

Where exactly did you see me writing, exhorting or implying that one should become a Lutheran? A Satanic statement would be something like "there is no salvation without sacraments, outside the church" I stated and I repeat again and again, that Luther is a force for BOTH good and evil. Salvation is a free gift - by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ nothing added, no works, no sacraments NADA. Lets be clear with our ABCs before resorting to name calling.

Yes, God through Luther, like God through Tyndale, like God through Paul, Peter etc. To God be the glory for His Word.

Well, if you'd like such an utilitarian argument, mine would be that people would not have any bible for themselves(especially germans) to decide whether what is taught is true or false, they would have catholic latin mumbo jumbo to send em to hell.

"In your case if you consider yourself a bible believer you need to rethink the defenses of Luther and correct yourself on the whole Protestant thing."

I wouldn't be a bible believer if there was no Luther, for without Luther there would be no Tyndale, no King James bible, nothing. I'm not saying you should become lutheran, I'm fundamental baptist but I recognize and am grateful for God's gifts coming THROUGH MEN. His catholic education and background kept his eyes closed to a lot of things.

Protestantism is heresy and another gospel, yes, man made doctrine, but no protestantism = no bible, no USA. Unless you delve into alternative/hypothetical history, which, I belive would be presumptuous.

"Surely you know Luther had those Rosicrucian symbols."

I don't believe that, I consider that to be a false lead from the think-thanks of Rome. Yes, I believe Luther to be in heaven along with a surprisingly large number(for you) of catholic clergymen through the centuries, who have found out the truth about salvation in the manuscripts for themselves (Revelation 18:4)

Yes, the RCC is the Whore and protestant churches are her daughters. No, millions have been saved by faith in these daughters, despite their dogmas.

Being born again does not mean being free from error/heresy. We should be grateful for the pure Word of God we have in our hands and the good faith we have been given by the apostles and prophets.

Anonymous said...

"Did God use aspects of it sure, but some do not realize the TRUTH. They elevate the Protestant Reformation to a place it does not belong. PROTESTANT, even the NAME was dictated by the Catholic church"

Agreed 100%. I do not elevate the Protestant reformation, but I don't spit on it with fanatic frenzy, as most readers here do. Have you heard of the term NEUTRALITY?


"God preserved His Word

NOT MAN.

The Protestant Reformation was of man"

God preserved His Word.
But still
Is the Bible of the Protestant Reformation? Y/N
If it is, then the Reformation was of God, even if for the sole purpose of giving us the Bible.

Anonymous said...

As a I read through the posts I am very saddened by how we can make assumptions about things that are not within our direct experience about people we do know directly.

There are so many lies and deception in this world, the only truly reliable source is the God’s word. Freemasonry lies about itself, Satan lies about himself, the internet is filled with lies, falsehoods and half-truths.

I defend no institutions, I belong to no denomination.

Yes there are many charlatans and wolves out there!

I have done a bit of research on Luther and I think we need to be cautious when we make pronouncements about a man we do not know and make strong assumptions based on a picture painted by someone who for all we know decided to make the fingers look like that so that the Luciferians would think Luther was one of theirs, which could be a lie!

Try to imagine yourself steeped in Catholic theology, how many years do you think you would need to deprogram yourself. Yes the Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth but we are human and no one here on this planet has a perfect understanding of Truth. Is it fair to expect that of Luther, are we to judge him so harshly because he may not have fully understood the Bible or had a difficult time to let go of some beliefs which had been drummed into him since his youth.

How can we truly know who he was as a man. Do we have any right to judge him so harshly based on one painting that could be totally a set-up. Really where is the discernment and analysis. We need to be promoting truth not make assumptions about people/things when do not have first-hand experience. That is just wrong and dishonouring to our Lord.

Maybe I am way off track here but I find it difficult to tarnish someones reputation who stated that Jesus was his Lord and Saviour when he cannot defend his faith.

This sounds like someone who was on the right track to me.
"That is why faith alone makes someone just and fulfills the law," he wrote. "Faith is that which brings the Holy Spirit through the merits of Christ."[44] Faith, for Luther, was a gift from God; the experience of being justified by faith was "as though I had been born again." His entry into Paradise, no less, was a discovery about "the righteousness of God" – a discovery that "the just person" of whom the Bible speaks (as in Romans 1:17) lives by faith.[45]
IMHO
Angela Lina

Anonymous said...

"Try to imagine yourself steeped in Catholic theology, how many years do you think you would need to deprogram yourself. Yes the Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth but we are human and no one here on this planet has a perfect understanding of Truth. Is it fair to expect that of Luther, are we to judge him so harshly because he may not have fully understood the Bible or had a difficult time to let go of some beliefs which had been drummed into him since his youth.

How can we truly know who he was as a man. Do we have any right to judge him so harshly based on one painting that could be totally a set-up. Really where is the discernment and analysis. We need to be promoting truth not make assumptions about people/things when do not have first-hand experience. That is just wrong and dishonouring to our Lord."


--------Amen

Anonymous said...

@Steve B, way to go nitpicking

"Demons even know this...why does that make Luther Christian and/or good? More fruit need to be examined besides "speech"."

By your logic, Paul was a demon.

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

"Zero. Only the Holy Spirit saves."

Yes, and who do you think would have preached to people in the middle ages and from then on? Rocks?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye RECEIVED THE WORD of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Acts 5:20
Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all THE WORDS OF THIS LIFE.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: THE WORDS that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Anonymous said...

"God must have been able to call
a few who in their failure to discover any good in themselves to cite
against the wrath and judgment of God, simply took to the suffering and
death of Christ, and were saved by this simple faith."


" All who say that faith alone in Christ does not justify a person,
convert Christ into a minister of sin, a teacher of the Law, and a
cruel tyrant who requires the impossible. All merit-seekers take Christ
for a new lawgiver."



" We have enough arguments right here to conclude that justification is
by faith alone. How can the Law effect our justification, when Paul so
plainly states that we must be dead to the Law if we want to live unto
God? If we are dead to the Law and the Law is dead to us, how can it
possibly contribute anything to our justification? There is nothing
left for us but to be justified by faith alone."

"By faith alone can we become righteous, for faith invests us with the
sinlessness of Christ."

"Christ did
not only love Peter and Paul. The same love He felt for them He feels
for us. If we cannot deny that we are sinners, we cannot deny that
Christ died for our sins."

"The very first thing for us to do is to believe in Christ. First, we
must receive the Holy Spirit, who enlightens and sanctifies us so that
we can begin to do the Law, i.e., to love God and our neighbor. Now,
the Holy Ghost is not obtained by the Law, but by faith in Christ. In
the last analysis, to do the Law means to believe in Jesus Christ. The
tree comes first, and then come the fruits."


Some "false teacher". Satan must have picked the wrong person, for
I'd say more than a few have been saved reading this.

Bible Believer said...

I suppose the Lutheran church awaits your membership with open arms.

You keep pointing out he didn't know better, etc etc.

I left Catholicism and in one day after being born again knew sacramentalism was wrong. [actually some time before that I stopped receiving the Catholic Eucharist]

So I was steeped in Catholicism TOO, what was different from me and Luther? I knew nothing as I came out of the Catholic church and even at that point didn't even have a KJV in hand thought I bought one days later and knew the sacraments and priestcraft were wrong. Where was the fruits of the Holy Spirit in Luther's life in directing him to trust in God's Word and bringing him into knowledge of these things.

You seem very invested in the teachings of men for a "fundamental Baptist"

Lutheranism kept the sacraments, kept the false bible versions, kept to the works, kept to a watered down version of the false Eucharist teachings. They stick to infant baptism. Right now I am in the position of describing to Lutherans I know, good, very kind people what it means to be born again and that this is not via infant baptism.

So Luther was a false teacher. Better then the Pope? Sure. But with plenty of deceptions to sell. I think of today how so many known names are false and deceiving, the famous not teaching truth, loved by the world. Suppose it wasn't much different centuries ago.

I am married to someone raised Lutheran who attended Lutheran school. They informed me years ago when I was attending Catholic church that Lutheran services were almost the exact same as Catholic ones except that the sermons were longer and more of a central part of things.

I have studied Lutheranism and have read Luther's writings. Most Lutheran churches outside of WELS [they admit the Pope is Antichrist but do not realize the Romanism in their midst via sacraments and more] are all ecumenical and daughters with Rome.

Even the Popes have praised Martin Luther

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/06/world/pope-praises-luther-in-an-appeal-for-unity-on-protest-anniversary.html

You better be cautious of loving and making excuses for those the world loved.

By the way I used to ponder that the man was a priest and just went so far, but then when I considered how much the Holy Spirit showed me coming out of Catholicism, why didn't it happen for him?

Lets look at the fruits, while there are some saved people in these churches, the majority are marching after the antichrist Pope on the path to perdition. Where's the good fruits?

Bible Believer said...

Not an endorsement of this website [I disagree with some things there] but interesting information here...

http://watch.pair.com/reformation.html

Luther was an Augustinian monk of the Strict Observance in a German monastery.


“A member of Martin Luther's order appointed, in accordance with the 'Rule of Saint Augustine', to read while the other monks eat in order that the monks may focus upon their spiritual hunger for the word of God as well as their physical hunger. . .

“Attempts to head off laxity in the Order led to the establishment of the 'Observant' wing to which Luther belonged by virtue of joining the Erfurt house. His fellow German Augustinians showed sympathy in 1518 with Luther's theological stand, but in that same year his Augustinian superior, Staupitz, released him from his monk's vows.

“Johann von Staupitz, Vicar General of the Augustinian Order (c.1460-1524): Monk, spiritual adviser. Staupitz was the senior figure in Luther's Augustinian Order in Germany and the leading light in the strict or 'Observant' wing of it. Luther frequently praised the spiritual comfort Staupitz had given him, though the older man did not join Luther's movement." - John Osborne, "Luther," Royal National Theatre)

"Strict Observance" was the name given by Baron von Hund, a German Templar, to the 33rd degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry.


"1743...Baron von Hund said he had been commissioned to set up lodges of Strict Observance in Germany and to promulgate 'true' Freemasonry under a system known as 'Strict Observance' because the oath of the Apprentice Mason included a vow of absolute obedience to 'unknown superiors.' The idea of a chivalric order, strict obedience, and a secret grand master must have had great appeal in Germany, because over the next twenty years, the new order promoted by von Hund spread like wild fire, and extended from Germany to almost every country of continental Europe." - A Dialectical Chronography of Humankind and Our Universe

". . .the text of the Protocols (of Sion) ends with a single statement, 'Signed by the representatives of Sion of the 33rd degree.'... And the thirty-third degree in Freemasonry is that of the so-called Strict Observance—the system of Freemasonry introduced by (Baron von) Hund at the behest of his 'unknown superiors,' one of whom appears to have been Charles Radclyffe." (Holy Blood, Holy Grail) 31:193

Luther's personal seal was the Rosicrucian rose symbolizing the lost tribes of Israel.


"...Luther used as his personal seal the symbol of a rose and a cross..." 25:56



"It may be stated, with a certain degree of probability, that much of the popularity of the Rosicrucian mythos was due to the beautiful though simple device in the early 17th century manifestos of the order, namely the symbol of the cross in conjunction with the rose (or roses)." - Early Symbolism of the Rosy Cross

Bible Believer said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/codex_magica/images/dcodex_45.jpg

Anonymous said...

"I suppose the Lutheran church awaits your membership with open arms."

How many times thus far have I said that Luther was WRONG about sacraments, doctrine etc?
I'm not going to condemn, and malign an honest man who is not present to defend himself. There is ONE who will judge him.


"Lutheranism kept the sacraments, kept the false bible versions, kept to the works, kept to a watered down version of the false Eucharist teachings. They stick to infant baptism. Right now I am in the position of describing to Lutherans I know, good, very kind people what it means to be born again and that this is not via infant baptism."

Why are you shifting the polemic from luther towards lutheranism(especially modern)? Have you read Luther's bible from 1545? Do you think Luther would approve of today's lutheranism?

Quote from luther:

"No greater mischief can happen to a Christian people, than to have
God's Word taken from them, or falsified, so that they no longer have it pure and clear. God grant we and our descendants be not witnesses of such a calamity."

Any thoughts?

"By the way I used to ponder that the man was a priest and just went so far, but then when I considered how much the Holy Spirit showed me coming out of Catholicism, why didn't it happen for him? "

Perhaps because you weren't brainpolluted all your life by church dogma(teachings of the fathers), being versed in greek, latin and hebrew and the classics(which is DUNG for Christ, of course). And you had fundamental baptists on every street corner and on the internet to teach you doctrine. And no, going to a RC service isn't the same thing as being a product of their learning, especially in those times. I have a question for you - have you heard of Apollos (Acts 18:24-26)? Saved doesn't mean one will not retain error/heresy.

"You better be cautious of loving and making excuses for those the world loved."

Those toilet paper rolls and cartoons showing Luther as the handpipe of the devil sure ain't love. These modern popes have expressed love to everyone including baptists, its a common satanic trick.

"Lets look at the fruits, while there are some saved people in these churches, the majority are marching after the antichrist Pope on the path to perdition. Where's the good fruits?"

Are we talking about lutheranism or Luther? How about two fruit of Luther(and Tyndale&co) - religious liberty in Europe and the Bible in your hands? Still not enough? Remember, talking about Luther and his times, not present day lutheranism.

Fruit from Lutheran churches= little, but still more than blogger junkies like US who waste their time on dead men, who cant speak for themselves.

--------
Yes, protestant churches are dead, heretic churches, yes they can be and will be devoured by Rome easily(and are already in the process, in a sense).

Anonymous said...

"Martin Luther yielded to the influence of his Jewish friends unknowingly, and again, by Jewish authority, and with Jewish finance, his plot against the Catholic Church met with success. But unfortunately he discovered the deception, and became a threat to us, so we disposed of him as we have so many others who dare to oppose us. . ."

Sorry, stopped reading when I saw the word "Jew". I don't buy into modern antisemitic agendas. Jesuits are pretty much behind all of them. Luther himself taught replacement theology.

Steve B said...

Anon @ May 14, 2014 at 11:05 PM

"By your logic, Paul was a demon."

Hardly. Quite a stretch that. My logic suggested that 'fair words and speeches' were not enough to discern someone's fruit.

Many charlatans throughout history who had a public face and a private one.

"Yes, and who do you think would have preached to people in the middle ages and from then on? Rocks?"

Absolutely. If no men were willing to follow God's commands, the very rocks would cry out.

Obeying the Lord has nothing to do with 'receiving glory unto oneself' or with 'praising others for "their" accomplishments'.

Our good works are as filthy rags. All Glory belongs to Jesus the Christ, Son of the Living God.

I was raised in a church that elevated other men...it is a sin, idolatry, and it grieves the Lord.

Bible Believer said...

Agree about the antisemitism. Luther was known for antisemitism as well.

Does this sound like a born again man? [Yes I believe Judaism is a false religion and they should be witnessed to, but this is horrible]

“My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it…The rulers must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs."

Bible Believer said...

Also why would he want the bible taken from them, for ones who had a Bible or even Old Testament that speaks of Jesus Christ?

Consider that Germany became the modern center of anti-Semitism--Holocaust etc.

Bible Believer said...

Yes even the rocks would cry out. Too many are invested in men. My general rule is watch out for who the world elevates.

Anonymous said...

"Absolutely. If no men were willing to follow God's commands, the very rocks would cry out."

Agreed, but I was trying to point out how ridiculous you sound. There were hardly any Christians in Europe, still not enough for the rocks phenomenon, but close.
Effectualy, except for a few nests of "partisanism" Europe was in the dark. It isn't called "the dark ages" for nothing.

"Many charlatans throughout history who had a public face and a private one."

Luther wasn't known for a flamboyant lifestyle, neither for glorying in himself. His contemporaries(except the catholics) paint anything but a charlatan.

"Obeying the Lord has nothing to do with 'receiving glory unto oneself' or with 'praising others for "their" accomplishments'.

Our good works are as filthy rags. All Glory belongs to Jesus the Christ, Son of the Living God.

I was raised in a church that elevated other men...it is a sin, idolatry, and it grieves the Lord."

Indeed, but bashing, spewing hatred and parroting the jesuits in the defamation of a long dead man who is likely a brother in Christ is not much less disgusting.

"Does this sound like a born again man?"

1 disputed authorship of the text

2 Children of God are capable of gross injustices. King James burned witches, he was probably wrong about that on more than one occasion. Those were dark times and Luther wasn't a very patient man.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Bible Believer said...

Sorry anyone who burns witches is not a Child of God. That is a fruit that denotes NO SALVATION.

With that one, I seriously believe you are in a false church. Are you a Calvinist or something?

Spiritually you need to rethink your endless defenses of man and examine yourself to see if you are really in the faith.

Exposing occult hand signs is not helping the Jesuits out.

The Jesuits used them all the time. They have their handshakes now that show the links to the occult.

Bible Believer said...

I don't judge the KJV by king james.

Do you know how many false teachers out there try to shred God's Word apart [I am not KJV only but believe it is the best version in English]pointing to King James's faults?

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer said...

"Yes even the rocks would cry out. Too many are invested in men. My general rule is watch out for who the world elevates. "

They didn't want Moses either. Do you want to go to Egypt or sit alone in the desert? Because thats what you are doing right now. Men men men, love waxed cold as ICE.

God has his 7000 even now. Why aren't you with them? Does the world elevate any bible believing pastor out there? Aren't godly men worth any honour? Paul and Peter were accused of being cult leaders. It seems to me "single cell" christians like you Bible believer(and many of your readership) only try to find an excuse for not being a part of a church and waste(and not redeem) time ruminating on conspiracies on the internet. God has more commandments than "reprove the unfruitful works of darkness".Yours is a pride/fear problem, not a separation problem. And paranoia is your driving force. You are defining yourself by what you are NOT, and not what you should be. Just like the protestants you are bashing right now. You are protesting against just about everything including IFBs. So afraid of making a mistake about "endorsing" anything that you are missing real fruit in your life. Boy, the internet sure provides an excuse and an inspiration for anything(Eccl 7:29).

Stop with the NAY, go with God's YEA. You are doing the NAYs, not the YEAs of God. Tell me where that comes from!

Anonymous said...

I don't judge the KJV by king james.

Do you know how many false teachers out there try to shred God's Word apart [I am not KJV only but believe it is the best version in English]pointing to King James's faults?

And how many attack the german bible and anti-catholicism on the basis of Luther's character?
Then please don't judge Luther by lutheranism. I believe the KJB to be the word of God.


"Spiritually you need to rethink your endless defenses of man and examine yourself to see if you are really in the faith.

Exposing occult hand signs is not helping the Jesuits out.

The Jesuits used them all the time. They have their handshakes now that show the links to the occult."

I'm in the faith, I would give you a holy kiss(or maybe not me, but my daughter) if you were here.
Sorry, but you are too fanatical about this hand sign thing, its not worth it to dishonour a man who brought much of God's light in the darkness of Catholic Europe.
Please, if you wish real information(with some real disinformation, your job to discern) find and read Vatican Assasins, the Old unhived mind forum and OLD history books, then we will talk about the Jesuits. Hand signs is scratching the surface.

But then again, this discussion has degenerated beyond salvaging. I'll be praying for you to do something better with your time.

Steve B said...

A Jesuit is in disobedience to the Lord the very day he takes his oath.

For as the Lord our God says, swear by nothing...simply let your yes be yes, and your no, no.

So if the very foundation of becoming a Jesuit is corrupt (if thine eye be darkness) how great is that darkness?

david said...

absolutely ludicrous... All history cannot be relied upon at all. Who cares about martin luther or even freemason martin luther king jr.,? Both members of the mysteries in their time, steering society for their masters...Who cares? prove the titanic hit an iceberg. prove that the earth moves. prove the earth is round. Prove asstronots go to space. Prove that nuclear fission in a bomb is possible. Did Osama bin laden blow up the wtc? Did Osama bin laden ever even exist?? prove a bomb went off at the boston marathon, prove 20+ kids died at sandy hook, prove someone died at aurora colorado...How is that slaughter at Waco recorded in history or how about that evil tim McVeigh in Oklahoma city? How will the above events be recorded in history? also by omission history is recorded, i.e. the kingdom of khazaria, or the USS Liberty as examples. history books reflect what tptb want our world view to be twisting lies into truth. All this fakery is leading somewhere like...I dunno...."give his power to the image of the beast" kinda thing maybe.

people may get angry at the notion that these things are hoaxes, some will scoff, they will not do any honest research into it because of the pride of what they think they know. being comfortable in the lies, not loving the truth. anyone with half a brain can see things don't add up with these events. so its not the brain power, in most cases its pride.

But if one really loves Jesus Christ, nothing but the truth will suffice.


Anyone clinging to worldly "truths" in the days ahead should be nervous....

striving after wind.

Anonymous said...


Bible Believer said "I left Catholicism and in one day after being born again knew sacramentalism was wrong. [actually some time before that I stopped receiving the Catholic Eucharist]

So I was steeped in Catholicism TOO, what was different from me and Luther? I knew nothing as I came out of the Catholic Church and even at that point didn't even have a KJV in hand thought I bought one days later and knew the sacraments and priestcraft were wrong. Where was the fruits of the Holy Spirit in Luther's life in directing him to trust in God's Word and bringing him into knowledge of these things."


I am SHOCKED that you could make such a statement, are you now the standard by which all former Catholics need to be transformed?

Sometimes Grace intervenes quickly and sometimes it can take years for that same Grace to move people along.

In the end all of these blogs go down the same path, which saddens me to no end. So much presumption about the evil in this world as though we have it all figured out.
This world is a very messy place and the evil we do reveal must be done cautiously and with a heavy heart. Be very careful when you malign someone and how it is done, sensationalism and a mean spirit really makes the true Christians seem very angry and hateful and it ultimately it hurts our cause.
Satan is winning here because we have lost our objectivity and the ability to know that we cannot know everything. We look through a glass darkly.
This has been my most favourite blogs as I always thought it was a fair representation of our world and very bible based, but when we lose humility we lose a lot. I do hope you reconsider your tone as I definitely know what it is like to be consumed by our own convictions. We are so deep in it we cannot see we have lost perspective and that is not putting on the “mind of Christ.”
In my humble opinion.

Angela Lina

Bible Believer said...


No the world doesn't elevate true bible believing pastors, I've known acouple and well, the good ones aren't plastered on the news selling millions of books because they are not tickling ears.

As for "conspiracies" the Bible itself warns of conspiracy. The whole cry of "don't go there tin hatters" is one way they have people fooled and the reason that so many are silenced. This is one reason people in the pews are fooled by Dominionism, Republicanism, and so much other antichrist nonsense. Even things that the bible warns of like the one world religion--is considered tin hatter territory by these types.

What is wrong with calling out errors in fundamental churches?
Even David Cloud does that.

Better that some do so, to help the churches rather then remaining silent.

I have some local Christian fellowship.

You do realize the world calls any fundamental or bible believer "paranoid" now. I find it odd how you present yourself, as being so pro-Luther, and then going on about conspiracies, but supposedly you are a bible believer?

You are no different from the watered down Christians who preached against biblical separation with the cries of "that is so negative!" I encountered them aplenty in the message board world.

Am I paranoid to say freemasons exist?

Paranoid to say that the churches do have freemasonic infiltration and this includes even Baptist ones?

Paranoid to say that there are occult signs and symbols they show?

"Then please don't judge Luther by lutheranism."

Why not? He started it, did he not? I don't hold him responsible for every error the liberal ones have gone into but this is what happens when a man is followed instead of Jesus Christ.

I am not fantatical about handsigns. I just point it out as one thing to be aware of, not as a religious doctrine.

I have read Vatican Assasins, the old unhived forum--with their trojans aplenty for anyone's computer who comes in and old history books. I don't have time to cover everything I have studied on this blog, including the further reaches of Saturnalism which they covered. I try to avoid turning this place into Vigilante Citizen as it is. Even covering some of the "lighter" topics dealing with the various nay-sayers isn't always easy, this exchange in point. I try to keep the rude stuff off, but gave more benefit of the doubt today for sincerity.

You seriously are recommending Unhived? Didn't they close that place down? Are you from Unhived? That place was controlled opposition if there ever was a place. Eric Jon Phelps with his praise of Fifth Monarchy, Protestantism and odd racial/racist views posted over there some years ago. I never posted just read. You aren't from there are you? I remember Phelps being really gung-ho on Protestantism. hmmm.

Did you read my articles about the false rituals, sacraments and other altars in Protestantism?

Agree david. Also agree history cannot be relied upon at all. I have often warned that church history is history cannot be relied upon at all. How many are led astray rejecting God's Word for "church history". Much of Protestantism advances Rome's version of the facts too. I agree that many people do not want to research things. They get angry at those who do expose things, saying how dare you, you're paranoid--hey that is one line used to silence anyone who questions the status quo.

I agree in every Christian there should be love of the truth, not being afraid where the powers that be fear you will go to find out their evil deeds and expose them.

Mark 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

Bible Believer said...

I don't think it is mean to tell the truth about Martin Luther or Masons. There is nothing to celebrate about anyone in deception.

Anonymous said...

"You are no different from the watered down Christians who preached against biblical separation with the cries of "that is so negative!" I encountered them aplenty in the message board world."

I'm for biblical separation. But biblical separation pretty straightforward.

"You seriously are recommending Unhived?"

No, I don't. But you can learn about the jesuits there. EJPs racism and the protestant theology are poison. There are false leads and poison everywhere.

"Did you read my articles about the false rituals, sacraments and other altars in Protestantism?"

Yes and I agree with it.

Church history is corrupt. Counterreformation history is to a large degree intact, its just forgotten.

"Why not? He started it, did he not? I don't hold him responsible for every error the liberal ones have gone into but this is what happens when a man is followed instead of Jesus Christ. "

Mary is the name behind the largest and most Satanic cult in the world. Is she to blame? Doctrinally, Luther IS to blame, but do you realise liberalism is not rooted in protestantism. It's rooted in trends and developments much larger in scope. Luther wasn't an antinomian, although it would seem to be so from his writings at times. He enjoyed his drinks too much.

Anonymous said...

"I don't think it is mean to tell the truth about Martin Luther or Masons. There is nothing to celebrate about anyone in deception. "

The trouble is the ones who will agree to MOST of these things(and we do not agree on Luther) are the fellow ruminators, hardly anyone, if anyone who is in the deception themselves. Conspiracy theorizing ISN'T a serious Job. I once thought it was, but you won't be a knight in shining armour for The Lord, not gonna turn too many people this way.... Not the most fruitful way to spend one's time.

Also - not "exposing" does not necessarily mean celebrating. Are we obliged to "expose" the whole body of conspiratiorial lies or a certain part? Which part? My humble suggestion would be that part that concerns our immediate brothers and sisters, our close ones, the veils and lies on THEIR eyes. Exposing hand gestures will NOT leave a good impression on non-believers and backsliders, and this is one reason nobody takes "fundamentalist" christians seriously. I have no doubt that one of the chief reasons for them to parade these symbols is to make us answer according to their supposed(not actual) folly, making ourselves fools in the eyes of society. If you latch on eyes and pyramids on children shows and such, you are putting yourself in a position of ridicule immediately WITHOUT arousing suspicion on the part of the ignorantes. Those signs and symbols (and most conspiracies like UFOs, Chemtrails, secret goverment projects etc.) are CREATED to divert, ridicule, keep busy and ultimately cripple christians and any potential dissidents or whistleblowers from trumping about the real developments(all roads lead to Rome, AKA organised religion via Babylon)and to discourage people from doubting the world system. Not that anyone can change it, but still.... Pretty much the "tin hat" label......The purely political and religious portion of your blog, I can agree with and condone. Good job. But condemning for hand signs? Rome needed more evidence than that to condemn Luther. . .

And Media needn't be exposed for signs and symbols, but for the moral decadence preached by it, I readily take all of it to be garbage and anything coming out of a news anchor should be scrutinized and taken with a grain of salt, mass media is 99% against the bible.

"the whole world lieth in wickedness"

Bible Believer said...

"I'm for biblical separation. But biblical separation pretty straightforward."

Biblical separation just from Catholicism but not Protestantism?

"But you can learn about the jesuits there. EJPs racism and the protestant theology are poison."

One can learn how desperate some parties are with the controlled opposition. This blog gets the controlled op types too. Actually whenever I feel that someone's views do not "add" up there is usually a reason.

There's nothing to learn from Jesuits except that they will lie, and even pretend to be standing against Rome to bring in new lies on false websites.

"Did you read my articles about the false rituals, sacraments and other altars in Protestantism?"

Yes and I agree with it."

Supposed I am surprised you agree with it, given the endless praises for Luther.

The Mary Rome worships is not the woman that gave birth to jesus but the queen of heaven. Lutheran churches follow the writings of Luther and abscribe to his direct teachings. The meaning of liberalism has become so fluid, what is a "liberal" today in modern American politics now but a pro-Obama war mongering fascist?

This blog may be more specialized, most readers are familiar with the things being discussed. Sure this blog isn't for everyone. You call everything "conspiracy" but that is just a way to play cover up. Maybe you should rethink that as it's a way that people are silenced when pointing out corruption and evil and yes I have said there are many conspiracies which are misdirections and lies.

So no one is supposed to expose anything online or discuss things? I am glad some people exposed the falseness of Rome and their deep evils for me to read about when I was Catholic to help wake me up.

I don't care if some scoffers still believe everything they hear on mainstream news. Are we to worry about what the world thinks or be interested in truth?

I am glad you agree with some religious and political things I write about but I still don't quite get the animosity towards exposing hand signs. Well I think the conversation has gone on long enough.

Within His Word said...

Luther was a demonic false teacher that was not from God. Luther taught works for salvation, which put him under an anathema by God's Word (Galatians 1:6-9).

Read his 95 Theses. They are all garbage. They confirm the right of the pope to rule, they confirm the existence of purgatory, and many other stupid things.

Luther was a false teacher that led people to hell.

As for the Bible, Luther had nothing to do with that. The Lord preserved His Word, and Luther tried to demolish the Word of God. Luther wanted to delete Revelation and James from the Bible. He was not from God.

Luther and Calvin were both catholic men that never left demonic catholicism.

And the ancient symbols go all the way back to Egypt and Babylon. So those "artists" of the middle ages, knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they put statues and paintings with hand signals and positions. The hand signals go all the way back to the first pagan rebels against the Lord.

Bible Believer said...

I agree. They were marking themselves, while a few exceptions may not know what the artist did, Luther appears in almost every portrait with a hand sign. They do mean something. I think some commenters come here to distract and dissuade. I always have taken heat over the Protestant articles, because this brings the daughters into the question. They deny even the warnings in the bible against the daughter churches that will follow Rome. Luther is on the same par with Calvin. Lutherans are taught they are "born again" at baptism same as Catholics.

atmo joyo said...

(I have been research Christianity from 1st century)

Babylon (Nimrod,Semiramis or queen of heaven and Tammuz) is MAIN source of paganism or worship devil.

If people thinking groups like illuminati begun since 1761,they are wrong.They existed since AD 135.
Montanus became the leader of a group of illuminati (“the enlightened”), including the prophetesses Priscilla and Maximilla in AD 135.

But syncretism between christianity and paganism begun since Nicolas (Nicolaitans) at 1st century.
One of Nicolas "Legacy" is Eucharist (cakes to queen of heaven) (things sacrificed to idols).

So,if you are catholic,protestant and orthodox.
I suggest you to repent because God had warning us about this in Bible.


Jeremiah 7:18
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough,
to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Revelation 2:14-15
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam,
who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Anonymous said...

I was in the wrong for my comments regarding the presence of christians in Europe before the Reformation. Please forgive me and, if you find it convenient, delete my comments or this entire string.