Wednesday, April 16, 2014

Do Your Relatives Hate You For Being a Christian?


Luke 12:51-53

51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Some of us are living this TODAY, it is not for the future. It is here and now.

One can lose their family or members of their family from becoming a Christian. Let's just say that many relatives do not like it when you become a Christian. This can grow worse as the years pass by too. Not many realize that. In the fresh days of being born again, you think "well I can preach the gospel and convict hearts and minds", well it doesn't always work that way. Many will still refuse God and will grow more belligerent in doing so. As you grow in the Lord, your distance from them grows further and further.  Yes we can have our hearts break and think maybe it is something we have done wrong, but people will make their own choices when it comes right down to it.

Sometimes at my last IFB I used to be impressed that sometimes there were whole families attending together, it didn't mean all parties were saved of course, but found it interesting since my experience was so different in life. I often have wondered what it would have been like being raised in a born again Christian family that was truly born again and not just by appearances.

While there are unbelievers who will be respectful and tolerant even within a family system, many will not be and see your Christianity immediately marking you as an enemy. Trust me you do not have to get your Bible out and bang it on the table or witness over and over to have this happen. You can witness once or twice, remain polite but spiritual realities will make themselves known. Some relatives will even forbid you to talk about religion or politics or anything related to the spiritual world in their house, others will herd their kids away from you so, over the years you notice, you are never left alone with their children or only allowed to see them as minimally as possible and even that with time that will ebb away. This can hurt especially for the childless or infertile lets say in the cases of nieces or nephews. If these relatives belong to the Catholic, Mormon or other false church or cult, shunning will happen with many of these parties. They will hold family gatherings and not tell you nor invite you. They will openly mock your religion or disdain you. In some countries, if one leaves a false religion, and if there is religious persecution, a wicked family sometimes will hand their Christian believer relative over to the authorities. We do not face this here yet in America, though the spiritually blind will defend many injustices, but it will be coming.

This theme is in the bible twice, usually when something is repeated in the bible, it is repeated and stressed as important.

Matthew 10:34-36

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

God may instruct you to part ways with wicked relatives or ones who overtly reject the gospel over and over and are openly hostile to it. No, I am not telling everyone here to part from every family member who is a non-Christian, and obviously there are commitments God will lead one in such as the care for children or an elderly parent, but these situations will come up. One thing the world will tell you that family ties and loyalty come first but loyalty to God is to come first. I have met people who have refused to leave false churches because it would upset various relatives even after being given some truth. There are others who do what their families tell them and do not want to "rock the boat".

The world will tell you to feel guilt in this desire to walk away but follow what God directs here. He will tell you who is in reprobation or those who still have a chance for salvation. I believe the edicts about departing from evil-doers applies to those you share DNA with as well. This can be a hard decision as a Christian to depart from family members but it happens more often then you think. Some Christian believers may be walking from abusive families, ones living unholy lives or ones involved in the occult. If you are a Christian and are open in your faith, if you are related to those who fully reject God and have embraced evil, you will anger them anyhow. You will be a challenge to the status quo, and you will upset them.

 Even if you reach out in kindness, from the other direction, they will force you to depart or cut you off directed in their spiritual blindness. Christian believers will often be cut out of the will for their non-conformity or even forced to walk from inheritances, or lose a position in the family business from their differing faith in Jesus Christ and walk with God. Jesus addresses this in a way here too.

Matthew 19:29

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

One odd thing about some of the churches, is I do feel there is neglect of solitary believers in them. So much is family directed. I understand Sunday School for the children but ever been to a church and it is a collection of families and no one is unconnected to a family network? Where are all the newly saved folks or those saved in adulthood who left families in various cults or states of unbelief? Fortunately this is not every church but I tend to trust the places less where the churches lack a number of individual Christian believers who came to Jesus Christ on their own.

The Bible talks about those who will be SOLITARY in families, so this shows us there definitely will be those who become born again Christians out of families in bondage to false religions who will be the sole party to do so.

Psalm 68:6

God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.

 There are unbelievers who will use Jesus's edicts about family division as being a "negative". I saw this years ago in so called "free-thought" books, they would write that Jesus's teaching of division with family members was wrong and would point out Jesus never married or had children. Of course they do not understand what these statements spiritually mean.  They used to quote this bible verses especially:
Luke 14:26
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Of course they did not understand the spiritual meaning of this. Jesus Christ is to come first in one's life above all others. Your love for Him is to supercede all others. In this world, you will be told you are wicked to be shunned by your own family for being a Christian or wrong in walking away from wicked relatives that God has directed you to part ways from. In my own case, my family is very Roman Catholic at least on the surface of things--for them the religion is a cultural social mandate. This is so strong I am the only one who has ever openly publically rejected the Catholic church among their numbers. Even the would be atheists and agnostics, keep their mouths shut in disagreeing with the family religion and participate in all religious events to keep the peace. Without going into nitty gritty personal details, I have lived some of the above. It can be a hard thing for a Christian but necessary. All I can say is I am glad Jesus Christ warned us. If you are in this place, I will pray for you. I seek to pray for others who have been "set solitary".


FaithGuy3 said...

Side note - has anyone noticed how alot of these hireling pastors(especially those in the Baptist cult) have children that didn't turn out well?

No, they weren't "criminals" per se - but from personal pastor I had had daughters who seemed indifferent to the Christian faith(they would wear semi-provocative clothing). One pastor I had never had any idea why her daughter married an unbeliever. A former co-worker's pastor had rebellious children. The list goes on.

Pt being that you can see the hypocrisy - these leaders in these churches stress pro-family, but they themselves just never could keep their own house in order(largely b/c they're focused too much on their careers, and they use corrupted bible versions).

With that being said - yes, I am in this same camp - 5-6 years ago when the Lord opened my eyes and showed me the truth about these corrupted bible versions, 501c3, Roman Catholicism, Rick Warren/Emergent Church, Billy Graham, Freemasonry, etc. It wasn't that they reacted "meanly", per se, but they thought I was far out into conspiracy-internet land.

Don't be discouraged, everyone - just remember we were all born sinners. So even our family members are no different from our lost next door neighbors we have(or wicked employer for that matter).

Bible Believer said...

I have noticed that too. I believe in many of the Christian families the children are never saved and if they have a hireling or wolf in sheep's clothing for a father, the results of course are going to be bad. There is that proverbial joke about PKs, preachers kids and the theme that they rebel more then normal children. A lot of the pro-family stuff is to a theme to fool the rubes. I believe the family itself in some ways has been turned into an idol in some places, definitely in Quiverful, Family integrated etc, but some of that has leaked elsewhere. People seem themselves as part of a family system as a "Christian" rather then as an individual born again believer in Jesus Christ. Yes many did not react meanly to me but I was told not to go into "conspiracy" land, that I was letting Satan lead me into "negativity" etc. So I have heard it all too. I suppose I tried to have a heart for those folks, knowing I was in the place where I didn't know anything [a Democrat as late as 2000] hoping and praying they'd be open to the truth. I know being in a "new" place, that I may hear some of this too, in seeing what direction things go.

I agree we are all born sinners. I think Christians should seek to witness to family members, and pray for them. I suppose with this one, I was more concentrating on those who were in the place where division was ruling, and they were being led to depart or being cut off or shunned by families that had already repeatedly rejected the Lord--reprobates and others or who were living lives of wickedness/abuse etc. In my case, there are family members I still witness too, the ones where division came in, it is not an easy matter, and one I wanted to write about here.

david said...

as usual with you BB, a timely post indeed. Im living it and its greatly edifying to read your latest post. Funny thing in my situation is they all have I-phones and none of em can take their eyes off them to carew about the Gospel....sad but true...destroy your smart phones. Its scary the trance people are under....Also, another one, if you dare to point out any wickedness or sin in anyone anywhere, immediately you will hear "judge not lest ye be judged!" "Christians are hypocrites" ... arghh huh? pass the corn and soy please!

Bible Believer said...

Thanks David, I am glad it helped you. Yes I have seen the I-phone thing. For those totally entranced by the NWO entertainment system, one can feel as though they are talking to a wall. Many family members called me "mad" for the most mild of statements in trying to share truths. I see most lost people under a trance and the smart phones and I-phones are pushing this along. I have heard the "do not judge" line too. One thing, it can be a tough balance, many people think if you have walked away from a wicked family member, {I am talking overtly wicked-reprobates not someone who could still benefit from hearing the gospel} that you are doing so out of self righteousness and your own wickedness, but that is simply not true per Jesus's warnings. LOL about the corn and soy, the GMOS are affecting people's brains too.

Anonymous said...

They just think I'm crazy. I guess maybe if I was On drugs and all if my kids were taken from me, they would think I was normal

atmo joyo said...

Hi BB,

I have lived in a situation like that in a long time.
My family call me an apostate.
but for me,I love GOD above all.

Matthew Chapter 22 (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Isaiah 66:5 (KJV)
Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

John 17:14 (KJV)
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Lillianna White said...

We must always put God first, no exceptions.

What happens is that out of our witness, they leave us, and we have to make that choice to not compromise to keep them, usually. I had a husband leave me over this.

This one hits close to home for me! Okay... this one's gonna be long too.

I grew up under all sorts of abuse.
There were occasional visits to church and I became curious about God and could feel that He was real. So I ended up getting a bible (it fell into my lap, long story) I read it and got saved.

My whole family has been a blend of false religions and cults with a few exceptions way back in the tree. I went through everything you mentioned here when it comes to ostracizing.

Out of all these people I never saw any fruit out of it when it comes to salvation, it only pushed them further away (as it will), at least that I am aware of to date. They all died off or we lost contact through moving, etc. The only living relative I have is my 81 year old mom, who was never saved but believed some things, but later lost all beliefs in the Christian faith. I have desperately prayed, shared the gospel, been a good example (humble and loving, not judgmental or self righteous), but nothing has come of it. She lives with me due to her age and such, she is not hostile like some people but that reproach is there, I feel it every day. It is hard and it hurts. I have cried passionate tears over it but nothing has changed. God has comforted me in all of this. Many times it seems
not only is Jesus my 'first love' as it says in Revelation, but my only love.

And yes, those churches, everything is a celebration of the family, a party for the family. It seems like if you are single people look at you as if something must be wrong with you, you are some kind of outcast. It's all about family night, married couples dances or retreats, fun programs for kids, etc., but never since the 90's have I seen a single's meeting! Or just a single friends meeting. They have the regular fellowships, but no special events. Even if it's not labeled, like a women's or men's retreat, people are all wrapped up in their family life, if it's a picnic open to all, the families always seem to be the most noticeable. There is always this 'oh, look what a wonderful and blessed Christian family we are!' (but who knows?) I have had much pain over the loneliness over this in churches too, especially after my divorce.

And yes, I have a list of stories too of wayward children of the leadership! Not a coincidence I see.

Bible Believer said...

Anon most of mine thinks I am crazy too. I would say this probably has happened to many Christians.

Bible Believer said...

atmo joyo, I am sorry you have faced this. I am glad you love God above all. Yes leaving cult religions and false churches they will call you apostate and heretic or heathen.

Luke 6:22 - Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Bible Believer said...

I agree Lillianna, I am sorry your husband left you. I will pray for you. My husband is not a believer, but I am blessed in that he is supportive and tolerant of my Christian faith, ie takes me to church when I am attending one. Yes he knows about this blog too and reads every article. He knows I will not compromise. We married before I was a Christian and when I was UU, he was not ever UU and was raised Lutheran.

1 Cor 7:7 says if a husband leaves you because of your Christian faith, you are not in bondage. I am sorry this happened and it had to be painful.
I am glad you found a bible and were able to read it. Sorry you went through abuse too. My background was anything but loving and supportive. I tried to read our big family fancy Catholic Bible but was forbidden to, fortunately by age 9, I was visiting the library, read Great Late Planet Earth and even checked out a Bible to check it out.

Any religious inquiry was stopped, and disdained, I was told be Catholic or else and stop asking questions which sadly led me right into atheism/unbelief by a very young age.

I am sorry your elderly mother has rejected the gospel and has given you reproach. It seems you have tried your best, but in the end, people all make their decision for God or not. It does not surprised me you only have one relative, that is happening to people now too in American society which is why
all the focus on families in the churches is leaving too many people out in the cold. I have an unmarried friend where all her family has died off, except one brother who is childless, two elderly members in their early 90s and a family of cousins.

Yes the singles are in for it, but really the childless too, kind of face some of that too. Even empty nesters at a certain point. Everything is yes about family events. I've had singles tell me they stopped going to churches because of this.

One thing too what about the people who have moved away from family members or had them move away from them?

One trend since the 90s it seems is people have made less friends and outside connections of their nuclear families. The guy who wrote Bowling Alone probably could explain this trend in the overall social disconnection in America. It can be an overwhelming experience to enter even a fundamentalist church where everyone is related to each other going 40 years back and you have no family or relatives. I know innocent parties of divorce aren't always treated well in some churches, when I was Catholic, the divorced in at least one church were treated like non-persons even if they were the innocent parties.

I am not surprised the children go wayward. If anything a child of a false preacher or religious merchandiser is going to consider all religion hypocrisy and depart from God. Hopefully they will be able to come to the truth via other means.

Anonymous said...

NWO conspiracy theorist Christians....get used to it, the writing is on the wall and its a real blessing to know the truth and is what FAITH is all about...Hebrews 11... cause when it gets bad here in the west it is the NWOconspiracytheorist christians that will be turned over to gubbermint officials for HIS names sake by our own friends and family members....SO obviously, believers in the REAL Jesus Christ will be deemed as mentally ill or worse and the only solution will be to kill them. We must be mentally ill to not believe all the false signs and lying wonders that will have recently happened by then. Unrepentant new age harlot, Barbara marx hubbard, says in her crappy new age book, about a Christ-consciousness and the coming age:

"Christ-consciousness and Christ-abilities are the natural inheritance of every human being on Earth. When the word of this hope has reached the nations, the end of this phase of evolution shall come. All will know their choice. All will be required to choose..... All who choose not to evolve will die off; their souls will begin again within a different planetary system which will serve as kindergarten for the transition from self-centered to whole-centered being. The kindergarten class of Earth will be over. Humankind's collective power is too great to be inherited by self-centered, infantile people." (from The Plan, quoting Barbara Marx Hubbard Happy Birthday Planet Earth.p.17)

So if you "choose" to not be a construct in the NWO, you must die. This is in line with the Word of God. Gonna have to take the life extension micro chip (people will sure want that) in your right hand or forehead to be "chosen"....Have you really pondered the faith needed to make it through that?

Bible Believer said...

Anon I agree the writing is on the wall. We see where things are going definitely. We see how the world labels the bible believing Christian who knows what is going on as "crazy", "the enemy" etc. Christians may face outright mocking now, but that is nothing compared to what is happening to people now, or will happen. They have set things up already where the true Christian is labeled mentally ill and crazy for their beliefs. I can tell with some folks I know, they "tolerate" me, and consider my beliefs "quirky" and me over the top, but what happens in a society where things go south? Ever wonder what it will be like as a Christian when the man of perdition is fully revealed [Pope as Antichrist?] and the world is worshipping him and you say NO WAY? Add in the lying signs and wonders, maybe their project blue beam, scam-a-thons and we will shake our heads and refuse to believe it knowing what God's Word says.

Refusing to believe the phony story of 9-11 among the sheeple who decry you is nothing compared to what will come. I know about Hubbard, yes her and others [Alice Bailey] write of Christians that must be removed as a scrouge from the earth and it's not duped Catholics and others in false churches who have embraced the antichrist. It's people like US.

I have done things like discuss the RFID microchip among people, all but the Bible believers truly born again were FOR IT. People have been so indoctrinated, they would line up for anything now. Yes I have been called crazy for these warnings but at the time the Lord told me to warn. They will sell this as "life extension" and maybe tie it to medical and other needs--doing that already, and what is all that talk of evolution and making "better humans" all about...the selling of transhumanism...

I agree about those who refuse to be a construct in the NWO. Some are departing from families and others who already are knowing constructs. Those who refuse to join the system are being deemed "the enemy" now no matter how peaceful they are.

Yes pondering the faith needed to make it through that every Christian should do.

Matt 16 24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Aji Fernando said...

I come from a Roman Catholic background. I left this pagan church a year back. But a vast majority of my family members are still Catholics. I often tell them about this evil church but they don't understand. For them it's all offensive and blasphemous. They are so worldly that they don't care spiritually. It's difficult being a real true born again believer in this wicked world friends. Nobody seems to understand. I struggle in this area of lust. Because of this I avoid going to the houses of many of my relatives. Sometimes they watch filthy movies together as a family. I find this highly offensive. It affects me spiritually. Neither do I attend family functions. These occassions become opportunities for some women to show their skin. Most of them are mothers. They don't mind being lustful. Every time I come back after these functions I have a tough time getting back to pray and read the Bible. All these half naked images reel through my mind. I know there are many who struggle this way. I don't mean to offend anybody personally but what I'm writing is true. Only because of GOD's saving grace that I'm able to move forward. I thank the LORD GOD for the righteouness of His Son Jesus Christ that saves me from eternal hell. The blood of Jesus saves. Pray for me friends. I too pray for all born again believes that God would preserve them and help them move forward. By the way I love the KJV Bible.

Aji Fernando said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

To Aji,

It is indeed hard to break away from the RC church. It took me many years to really cut the ties completely for may different reasons. Family can be hard to be around for many different reasons once you become a Christian, I can certainly relate to that. I believe God will guide you remember he called the sinners to repentance. Keep strong in the faith in these troubled times. As a new Christian we can be so strong in the Lord but the devil is always around to steal our joy and I know from experience how one can get caught up with what the world has to offer.

Angela Lina

Lillianna White said...

Hi Aji!

It's literally 2 different worlds that don't understand each other (or more they don't see the light) and like a gravity on each polar end. The further over you are, the harder it is to leave that place, the more in the middle and straddling the fence, the easier. Just be a witness to them from a distance while avoiding the sin. The RCC is one of the hardest ones to come out of because of all the head trips they put on people, and the attitude that it's okay to keep sinning because they will do such and such a ritual for you, etc. so it tempts many. Don't hang your heart on them coming out of it, it might take a while, if ever. Just enjoy and rejoice in your relationship with Jesus and let your light shine. Maybe they will come out of it, maybe not. I know those struggles too (and I am not a man!) The closer you are to God the easier it gets to obey, but if you dabble and let things slide a little, it is easy to fall back because of condemnation, and the devil uses that like weapon #1.

We will be praying for you!
Stay strong.
( :
Blessings to you!

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer- It's hard to believe your husband is still an non-believer with all the truth you speak on this blog! (Considering you said he reads every blog entry) Very few have the discernment and understanding as you do to see what is going on in the world and in the "church" right now. As time goes on and these things rise to the surface more clearly perhaps that will be what it takes to convert him and see that you were right all along! :)

david said...

Hey BB- just wanted to share this nugget with some fellow born again kjv bible believers as its a goody....So an area church, First Christian Church, had a big time last night at their U2charist celebration....

"U2charist is an edgy worship service for our community based on the music of the rock band U2. This year’s U2charist will take place Good Friday night, April 18th, at 7 p.m. Come experience a different kind of worship in the midst of a different kind of worshipper"

u guys prolly know about this u2charist deal and obviously its RCC/Ecumenical/Episcopal/whatever etc. They also have a 2.25 million dollar addition going up currently....

just wanted to share with people who may actually care

Aji Fernando said...

Angela Lina & Lillianna White - thanks a lot for your encouraging comments. Happy to know that there are people who are still open to the truth. I thought I'd be condemned for what I said. May the LORD GOD bless you.

Bible Believer said...

Aji, I will pray for you. Praise God you came out of the RCC. Yes many were offended by me telling them the truth or witnessing. I understand the worldliness. I had family members overtly listening to wicked bands like Black Sabbath etc, and claiming they were "Christians" on the other hand. This is many in these false churches, they are still part of the world, their churches are religious theatre for Sunday.

If you struggle with sins around them, it is best to keep away. God warns us to depart from the wicked. If you have relatives who are doing wicked things and setting up sinful displays it is best to stay away.

As a Christian man, you need to stay away from the willfully immodest.

I agree with anon, as you grow in the faith, the Holy Spirit will lead you to a stronger resistance to sin and knowing what to do with these types of situations.

Bible Believer said...

It can be tough anon. He is not born again. He believes Jesus was real but is stuck in the false church system way of thinking--he was raised Lutheran but this is a more recent departure from agnosticism. I had a pastor over here to witness to him directly last week. Direct preaching of gospel. Of course this was done years ago in my old church. One surprising thing, he does not stand against my faith ventures--this blog, churches I am in, or private bible studies. I know most unequally yoked women that is not how it is working out. I am praying for his salvation everyday.

Anonymous said...

My in-laws are nice to my face but they'll post things on Facebook like 'Happy Jesus zombie day' and other things that will ridicule Christianity. My husband, who is not saved, did not like that they posted that at all. He was pretty disgusted, which was nice to hear.

They are Catholic but don't go to church or practice it. At least one is a Wiccan and suffers terribly from anxiety and depression. A few other members suffer from same and are on meds.

About 13 years ago I was on antidepressants and antianxiety meds. I had also turned my life to Jesus Christ and went off the meds when pregnant. I didn't go back on them against the doctor's orders. I didn't need them anymore. There are several things I'm not in bondage to anymore because of Jesus Christ. I am so thankful to have peace and contentment now! They know how I used to be and how I give Jesus Christ the credit for changing me. Maybe someday they will want to come to Jesus Christ.

My immediate family is in another state. They've always gone to church but also celebrate Halloween big time and other things. I was surprised my one cousins was excited about the Red Hot Chili Peppers at the Superbowl - I was like, how much more overtly evil can you look and sound?

I used to like Red Hot Chili Peppers. I used to like Black Sabbath and all that stuff but I cannot understand liking it now. It's been disappointing because I always thought they were solid all these years.

It's an odd feeling to realize that even though those around you may profess Jesus they are on another page.

Wow that U2charist is awful. How many will get excited over 'edgy worship'.

Lillianna White said...

I enjoyed all the comments and the honesty. It sounds like we are in very similar places with this.

I know that after being born again, you grow and mature by the Holy Spirit (sanctification), some of it is sudden and some progresses, but you can't stand anything evil, dark, sinful, or worldly anymore. No compromising. So keep going in that direction. It is better to have fellowship with God and enmity with the world. You can't be friends with both.

Many churches have one of those 'compromise to get the outsiders in' campaign, but my question is: get them into what? We are to come out and be holy and separate, then there is a light, a witness, and they will see that there is an alternative to come TO when it comes to lifestyle. The devil wants the Christians to be fooled and think they need to be like the world to make it look like 'it's not that weird to be saved,' but that kills the whole witness. Then both are like the world. The right way, both are walking upright or at least the believer remains there!

This is all part of the lie from the devil they swallowed 'have the best of both worlds,' but you can't. You must choose. That is why they are so comfortable going to those churches once in a while and then back to the pigsty of their sin. Then they riducule those walking uprightly. It's all part of the persecution we must face. We must stand firm and pass the test, who are we going to honor?

Anonymous said...

David, that is outrageous that that church had that U2 edgy worship service! I mean what does U2 even have to do with Christianity???? Unbelievable! But to add to the insanity, this weekend I pulled up signs that I saw stuck in the ground around town that said I thought an atheist group had planted them but it turns out its this church that calls themselves Relevant Church. I wrote them a scathing letter about blaspheming God and how their tease line to draw in atheists to their church (so they could win them for Christ I assume) was only helping people who hate God to blaspheme him further and was grieving the heart of us who drove by those signs. It was not the first time I had seen them put out edgy, rebellious spirited, worldly advertisements, but this one was way too much for me to sit quiet about!

I get shunned by family and others for pointing out the falseness of Catholicism, the New Age hybrid Christianity that has over-taken true Christianity in our culture, and other cults like Mormonism. I get told I am not loving and worse I get blocked so my emails and phone calls don't even go through to family members or former acquaintances. So I am grateful this post was up to once again let me know I am not alone and I am not a Pharisee like they try and make me out to be. I think the ones who sit comfortably in churches are more like the Pharisees than someone like myself who has a street outreach and website that compares other cults to Christianity. I think I am being more loving to tell others to not be deceived but few see it that way.

Oh well, our reward will come in heaven, right? And hopefully we can all reach at least one person with the true Gospel and see them in heaven because of our efforts!


Aji Fernando said...

Absolutely right!!!

Aji Fernando said...

You are all absolutely right.

Lillianna White said...

Hi Lori!

Yes, it's getting worse all the time, the apostasy of 2 Thess. 2 will only get worse as they converge into the one world religion. There is some interesting stuff posted about U2 on that Ephesians 5;11 blog and any Christian should steer clear of these types. (Lots of coexist stuff, etc. with that U2 one).

I literally can't stand these neo-churches that are out there, super modern like a high tech rock concert hall, it's all smoke and lights and deception on a swivel tray. They are totally immersed in the world. Their websites always have either an occult symbol or that 'sketchy, patchy' fragmented background and use post-modern words like 'relevant,' and other emergent terminology. They always have these hipster names too, like 'relevant' or 'newbreak,' or stuff like that. These are like the last stepping stair to the final apostate church. Can't stand 'em!

Good for you for telling them. I've been doing my fair share of giving out my 3 cents worth too lately.

Remember, the loving thing to do IS to warn of impending danger, not to turn a blind eye. That this is not 'loving' is like lie #1from the apostasy coalition, (and they have their prearranged lines ready!) to water down any dissent and thinking. It is our job to warn of the coming danger just as much as to preach the gospel, regardless of who likes it or not. They are the pharisees, not us, just like in Jesus' day, it is the established religious order that is not happy with anyone making waves. And see? They are judging you for doing what Jesus called you to do. They won't see because they are deep in the deception, sitting in the pews of apostasy, growing deep roots there. You are the one being 'a voice in the wilderness' speaking the truth in love.

We always go against the grain when we do this, we will always encounter opposition and persecution (just a sign post that we are headed in the right direction!) and they will always resist and decry it. They will ostracize us just like it says in Matthew 24 and other places. We just have to stand firm against the tide and current. After all, it is we who are swimming upstream.
Any dead fish can go downstream. And yes, the rewards for this are many. Sometimes I think we have some extras coming just due to the times we are living in. It is harder than ever with all the social currents to stand firm in the truth and declare it unwavering, not cowering to the popular mindset, but boldly proclaiming the truth against all adversity. It will only get worse as time passes until... you know so I won't say it again. Just the fact that we are being faithful, the ones on the alert, keeping watch from that lookout tower and warning others, that alone is rare, and I'm sure we are reaching people we aren't even aware of! We may have a few surprises in heaven!
( :
Love and blessings to you!

Anonymous said...

Hi Lillianna,

Thanks for the encouraging post (actually all of them on here from you are encouraging!) and I am glad you reminded me that terms like "relevant" are enmeshed in the emergent church movement. As I looked on the website of this particular relevant church I read how one of the pastors has on his bio that his whole life he loved watching television, movies and he loved music and how he now sees God was preparing him for ministry there through all of that. I was like, oh my gosh! If these people think God builds ministries on T.V., movies and worldly music, man, these people are LOST! Well thanks again for the encouragement, its great this group understands the challenges of standing against the perversions of the Gospel going on today!

God bless,

Lillianna White said...

And then there is that hidden 'eucharist' in U2charist... maybe someone talked about that a while back, but that is another item that is creeping into the Protestant churches. Certain things we need to look out for:

1. Ecumenism
2. Dominionism
3. Contemplative
4. Eucharist

These are 4 big signs that "Your church is on the fast track to Rome and the one world religion". You can almost see the billboard... One-world-religion coming to a church near you...

It's mostly already there. Many don't know what to look for in symbols and terminology and such. But to help translate:

1. Ecumenism - when there is a big focus on 'unity,' especially when truth and sound doctrine are the expense paid for it, rest assured they are headed on the road to Rome. They get sneaky about this too, uniting with others over 'causes.'
2. Dominionism - any talk of 'helping build God's kingdom here, or now' or 'making the world a better place,' 'changing the world,' etc. It is fine to do good, but their meaning is that we are the end all solution to 'fixing the world,' and we are not, Jesus is, He brings in His kingdom, no one else.
3. Contemplative - if they are introducing books by famous 'Christian' authors and introducing strange new practices, they usually involve some form of meditation, mantra (repetition), or other strange eastern terminology that involve emptying your mind, anything 'mystical' that just doesn't sit right with you.
4. Eucharist - making Communion into a mystical experience in any way (transformative) beyond the commemoration it is intended to be. (I've got bible verses to back all this up if anyone needs these.)

They work slowly and subtly, introducing a term, warming up to it, indoctrinating... until people think nothing of merging with the pope. I have heard the term 'parishioners' tossed around in Protestant churches too, but a Parish is a Catholic place!

On some of those websites I mentioned I also found an article with a reference to Rick Warren referring to Pope Francis as 'our' pope! So he considers the pope to be over him and his flock! I'm not surprised, I even expected it sooner or later. You can literally predict what is going to happen next at this pace.

Lillianna White said...

Hi Lori!
( :
Thank you! That means a lot to me. I just try to build up the saints since there is so much opposition, discouragement, and loneliness which can sometimes make one feel like the lone ranger and doubts can set in among other things.

I'm just thankful for everyone on here and pray for people to find this place as well as good discernment places in general (which are hard to come by!) Lots of phonies out there.

Yes, it is interesting when you research the websites of such 'ministries' like modern churches, it can be very revealing! They are so obviously on program with the new world order objectives, so concerned about being 'relevant' to the unbelievers... and wow, that is something I am seeing more and more of where they use popular culture as a means of being 'relevant' and pop culture is getting filthier by the day. We are to come out of the world, be separate, and not love the things of the world. Anyone using that stuff is being used... by the enemy! When you walk close to God you see how vile and degraded these things are with music, TV, etc. I don't even listen to anything not 'Christian,' but even then, it's been inundated with new world order themes as well, all these songs about 'building the kingdom here,' 'making the world a better place,' 'breathing in/out something or other,' the list goes on. Just slowly hypnotizing the Christian world into accepting the nwo agenda. It's like every aspect of pop Christian culture and ministries have been engulfed, even if you go on websites like Bible Gateway, they had this ad for lent, and a book by Rick Warren being endorsed, etc. You just can't get away from it anymore.

It's so great that places like this exist! At least we know we are not alone and we can encourage one another.


Anonymous said...

I used your article today to find clarity in my own issue. You summed it up very well, articulated my experiences and feelings with great empathy. Thanks for posting this. I'm in better shape for reading it and feel that I have some direction, even those it involves estrangement from family. Christ first with truth in Christ, not some custom version of it that looks and feels nothing like Christlike love.

LoveAtAllTimes said...

Reading all of this has been extremely comforting. Yes I too live this daily as well. Thank you everyone for sharing your stories. I love God and I love His people.

Anonymous said...

I am new to being born again since finding Jonathan Kleck,s youtube ministry. I also recently quit drinking and having sexual relations. I am a single guy from US living in Thailand. I haven't got along with my family for years because they are brainwashed. It is very difficult to see how people can be so blind. Forget TV. I have few websites I like for the truth among certain individuals. I see cern out there and the satanic rituals it brings. They had a ritual last week for some huge tunnel in Switzerland with the sickest display of satanic nwo yet. Very disturbing.
We also had a storm Sunday night here that was biblical. Constant lightning and black sky like never before. I spoke to my mom in Ohio and they were getting that storm about a day later. I think this is the beginning of the end. I think there will be a false flag in EU and or USA before long with martial law, gun confiscation, economic collapse and cashless society rolled out. For his time is short. Satan is using Obama's body as a host. I have a new found love of Jesus and God. Am I right ? Jesus is God. There is so much more to talk about. I hope to see you at the party. God Bless

Anonymous said...

Recently I made that choice to leave everything behind and follow Jesus, my parents were Buddhist and so I face persecutions from them for being Christian. At this difficult time I am glad Jesus is still with me. I have placed God first and never regretted my decision to follow Christ :)

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this forum...going through losing my relationship with my sister over my choice to follow Jesus Christ. At first, she was inquisitive, then pulled away. Lastly, she bullied me during this last election about who I was voting for, launching insults at me.
I'm prepared to love her from a distance and ask the Holy Spirit to meet she and her husband where they are to soften their hard hearts and hear truth....

Anonymous said...

I'm the only Christian in my immediate family, and I sometimes feel like they dislike me for being a Christian. My older sister deliberately rants about how much Christians "scare" her and "disgust" her, right in front of me, knowing full well how awful it makes me feel to hear her say those things, and my mom and younger sister just nod their heads in agreement with every bigoted, hateful, Christophobic thing she says. I don't think my mom and younger sister know that I'm a Christian, and I'm afraid to "come out" as a Christian to them, because I worry that they won't accept me and that they'll constantly emotionally abuse me, like my older sister does. It just hurts so much feeling like I'm not good enough for them, just because I love the Lord. I know that it's not unusual for people to hate us (because they hated Jesus first). However, I never expected to be hated by my own family. Anyway, thank you for posting this. It's nice to know I'm not alone. :)