Thursday, February 27, 2014

Seed Sower's Videos on "Religious Divas"

Warning on these videos, a reader warned me that A Seed Sower teaches Pentecostal doctrine including Baptism of the Holy Spirit and false tongues. I looked into this and they are correct. I will leave these up for the information. Obviously we have to be careful about all sources and if someone is giving me sincere warnings I always appreciate it. I had looked through many of her videos and even posted acouple others but did not see these before---3/1/2014.

This is a 7 parter but you can find the videos after playing these first two.


Anonymous said...

Interesting series. Instead of Aimee McPherson being the original religious diva, I would suggest Semiramis. Genesis 3:16C - Don

Bible Believer said...

I would too definitely.

Anonymous said...

BB, here is a wonderful video by the woman who created this series; It goes right along with your recent posts. - Don

Anonymous said...

Great videos. I remember my mom watching Kathryn Kuhlman in the 70's and I remember her voice sounded like a snake. She had this funny way with her Ss.

How true, these women lead others to only love themselves and make idols out of false teachers. Paula White's You're All That! is just awful.

I thought of 2 Timothy 3:
" having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women...."

Anonymous said...

ASeedSower has a series called "The Baptism in The Holy Ghost" where she discusses why speaking in tongues and prophesying are still for today, which makes me leery of her.

Be careful she is very subtle. She makes some good points in the stuff I have watched of hers but I don't watch her stuff after seeing "The Baptism in The Holy Ghost".
I came out of charismatic, Pentecostal churches so I know their junk doctrine.
She did have a video discussing why Kenneth Copeland's tongues were false and I guess hers are "true tongues"(my wording)..that video seems to have been removed because I can't find it now.

You usually give a warning but I noticed you didn't with her.

The Baptism in The Holy Ghost Part 1

There are 3 parts to it.

Bible Believer said...

Ah that's very disappointing....:(

I never saw that video. The rest had looked good.

I found it.

Have to admit I am not happy about this. It sometimes seems very tough to find good sources for this blog.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Don too, I know many of her videos are good but then we find out this. I want to write her but can't find an email.

LOL I found myself when I first found her videos thinking she has kind of a silky voice, and even though LOL the voice is "too good" and had a brief thought of wariness, I always need to pay attention, I am not perfect.

Pentecostal stuff is an absolute deal-breaker. I want to write her if anyone can help me find the email. I just want to warn her about false Pente teachings.

Bible Believer said...

They get people to open their minds up to demons with the false baptisms of Holy Spirit. There was this Pente. guy I knew who told me I needed to empty my mind and let the Holy Spirit in, so this is a big deal to me. I DO NOT consider it a scriptural teaching. The Holy Spirit is in a person when they are born again.

Anonymous said...

The last church I went to that sung hymns instead of having the rock band - so I thought I'd be 'safe' - well I asked the pastor about considering warning about the new age movement but he just looked at me funny. And then in the Sunday School class I attended we were told to 'empty our minds' and do breath prayers, don't even use our own words, just pray scripture.

I never went back. I guess you can't warn about what you are teaching in your church.

Anonymous said...

She may be on point with some of the things, but at others times she seems a little uppity and snarky. That turned me off immediately.

Also, seven videos? I mean, we get the point after pointing out some of the markers, so the fact that she feels the need to reveal each and every RD like she is the RD police is again, off-putting. LOL

Appreciate the overall thought behind it, but just wasn't up my alley I guess.

I remember all these people back in the 70s like Kuhlman and Hinn and how my parents seemed to think they were okay. Wonder what they think now in hindsight.

Lillianna White said...

To keep things in perspective, there is a legitimate baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is a lot that goes on in the name of 'charismaticism' but like always, there is a real and a counterfeit. That's not to say that if you didn't have it, you're not saved, after all Jesus told the thief on the cross (after believing in Him) that today he would be with Him in paradise (no water baptism, no nothing else, just believing in Jesus).

Yet there is a real experience, and there are too many Bible verses to argue against on that. About the gifts, I feel they are still in operation today, because that which is perfect has not yet come. (The Kingdom, when we won't need the gifts anymore...) Even the bible hasn't gone all over the world yet and some believers don't have access to one. The gifts minister much to these believers, if you keep up on missionary work you will hear about this.

I also know about the experience, because I had it 26 years ago. Allow me to share it... I was young and to make a long story short, had wanted a bible and after a little while I received one. I read it and accepted the gospel over time and after some time felt the impression that I should commit myself to God. I was in the process of repenting of various 'typical' teenage sins and was truly seeking to know who God really was and know His nature. So, one day when I was alone I did surrender myself to God in full and didn't really expect anything to happen, I just felt like I had done the right thing. But a second later, literally, it started... the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I didn't even know what it was and no one had ever witnessed to me, ever, or told me I needed to 'give my heart to Jesus,' I just felt this was what I needed to do and was in the privacy of my room, alone in the house, with the bible on the bed next to me. It lasted for several hours and I was flooded with the love of God and all the fruits of the Holy Spirit: agape, joy, peace, forgiveness, compassion, etc. and it just flowed through my heart outward. It was like an immersion and the most satisfying experience ever and what our souls really thirst after. I felt forgiveness for every person who had ever hurt me (and the list was long) and so much unconditional love! It was of God, not from me or anything else. There was an intellectual component that went along with it, like a truth component where God was revealing things to me. After reading more of the bible, it all lined up and I knew that this had been the baptism. Over the years after that, many times the Spirit would remind me of bible verses that I had read and needed to hear at that time. Just for clarity: I did NOT speak in tongues, I did not get that gift, but I did get others. Anyone who says tongues are the only proof are wrong, you can have the baptism without the gift of tongues, diverse gifts are distributed. See 1 Cor. 12. Google a list of bible verses on these topics as research before listening to those who don't know. There are fake gifts floating around too and fake baptisms, so be cautious. Remember, there are false signs and wonders as well!
As a first verse, see Romans 5;5.
This is one of the things there is a lot of confusion on because the devil really doesn't want you to know and have this.

Anonymous said...

She is correct about the Catholics. I did watch "The Baptism in the Holy Ghost" series and she speaks of tongues as ecstatic utterance along with being a foreign language, two types. I find it hard to believe it is all a sham as it is in the Bible, although I do not have that gifting. I do understand lying signs and wonders and where they come from. The gifts caused problems in Paul's day also, elitism in Christ's Body. - Don

Anonymous said...

Lillianna White,
I would disagree with you on doctrine, for sure. You said,
" Anyone who says tongues are the only proof are wrong,"

We are called to live by faith, not proof of anything, and I'm not at all saying that you don't live by faith, so please don't take me wrong.
It is my belief that all the "gifts of the spirit" as described in the Bible were a fulfillment of prophecy about Jesus Christ who he was/is and would be.
It was a sign to the Jewish people of that day to show them that Jesus was in fact the promised Messiah.
They even recognized that what happen at Pentecost was a fulfillment of prophecy about Christ.
It was proof of who Jesus Christ was then and not proof whether someone is or isn't in Christ now.

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (KJV)

and then Joel
Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

All the "gifts" were a fulfilling of prophecy to point them to Jesus as being the Messiah. Once prophecy has been fulfilled we don't keep trying to duplicate it. It is over and done with.
They new that what happened was the fulfillment of prophecy that Joel spoke of concerning the promised Savoir. We don't keep trying to re-fulfill prophecy.

Anonymous said...

ASeedSower is also supportive of "words of knowledge" and "rebuking in the name of Jesus" per her blog post here

Just to make you think is her blog, it's linked to her youtube channel.

I don't know how to get her email address maybe through the blog and she also has a facbook page.

She is also a member of a group on facebook called, "SERIOUS SPIRITUAL WARFARE FOR THE END TIMES BATTLE"

They discuss publicly about "Christian deliverance", "casting out demons" and "cleansing and anointing your homes from demons"

I have not seen her comment in the group but you can see by the "seen by" that she has viewed the videos and things posted and has not left the group so that means(to me at least) that she is supportive of it.

I know how hard it is these days and how disappointing it can be.
I find it odd that she made a video refuting Nephilim called "Angels and Giants", but is in a facebook group that believes in them. You could ask her about that if you reach her.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for posting so much but I just had something more to add.

Lillianna White, how do you distinguish the "real gifts" from the "fake" ones?

How do you even know whether or not you have the "real" ones or the "fake" ones?

Where does Scripture teach us how to distinguish the real gifts from the fake ones?

Thanks :)

Anonymous said...

I agree with Lillianna White.
My experience is quite similar to hers.
I was a young person in a very dysfunctional home with abuse. I was isolated with no one to turn to. I read the Bible and alone in my room I reached out to the Lord in my distress and He touched me in a very special way. I knew nothing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was a believer as I had received the Lord thru a radio broadcast.

The experience was brief, but dramatic and for the first time in a long time I had perfect peace and the knowledge that God had His hand on me. I don't normally speak of it because I believe it was personal. I since know that there is a counterfeit of this experience, but I know in my heart of hearts that this was genuine and from God.

We are not to seek after signs and wonders and I was certainly not doing that at the time. I was simply reaching out to God in my distress and He answered in a tangible way.

Satan's way is to counterfeit and discredit the genuine works of God and the women described on the videos are a perfect example - of course there are many men who do so as well, but it is interesting that there are so many women.

It is interesting that Chuck Smith came out of Four Square and Aimee McPherson and in the beginning hobnobbed with Kathryn Kuhlman. I always thought she was creepy and could not see how people could follow her. Also, Jan Crouch who is so outlandish in her fabricated appearance that should repluse any normal person.

Anonymous said...

Not taking sides or defending anyone, just expressing a couple of thoughts. The prophecies of Jesus Christ are not complete until His kingdom is here, when He rules and reigns (Revelation 11 & 21-22). Signs and wonders come from spirits, we are told to test the spirits (1 John 4). This is a sensitive subject, let us take care how we treat one another. - Don

Bible Believer said...

Yes this one seriously disappointed me. Maybe she is a sincere one but she is seriously wrong about this stuff.

When I was born again, I felt the peace of God. Sure one will feel the Holy Spirit then and in prayer later but I don't call it Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I also think one may have times show up where casting out of demons is necessary, you think those people ripping off people's faces aren't possessed, of course some of them are. There is a lot of false deliverance out there but there is real spiritual warfare, of course I consider Pentecostalism from the gates of hell.

With tongues, real languages real translation...not goobley-gook mystical junk. I am not sure if real tongues are happening still or not. I would be open to it, but think it is extraordinarily rare and it is about languages being translated not mystical experiences and nonsense words.

I have seen Facebook pages where they look legit even warning about the NWO and then they all bring in the Nephilim, or Calvinism or other nonsense, everything turning on that one lie.

Bible Believer said...

Kathyrn Khulman does speak like a snake.

Lillianna White said...

Hi all,

See bible verses below on next entry.

So the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available to all believers till the end.

We are called to test all spirits as someone said above 1 John 4.

Like the one who had a similar experience (I came from a background of abuse, etc. too), you know if it is from God or not.

The other remark someone totally took out of perspective. Here is what I am saying:

1. The gifts are active today and will be until Jesus returns, at which point we will no longer need to rely on such things.

2. Different gifts are distributed, as it says in 1 Corinthians 12, and Paul is clear that not all get the gift of tongues, but that doesn't mean they did not receive the baptism.

3. I never said we don't live by faith, that is a separate issue. I am only addressing the confusion that arises when people claim that the only proof of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues, which it is not. So, my original remark stands: "Anyone who says tongues are the only proof, are wrong." They are wrong. And I am not saying we are called to live by proof, I never said that... anywhere. Again, see 1 Cor. 12.
Some have the gift of prophesy, some word of knowledge, some evangelism, teaching, helps, etc. (Google for list).

The outpouring of the Spirit is ongoing, it began at Pentecost but people mistake that it stopped after that. It didn't. It continues to move throughout the world and the baptism of the Spirit occurs, the gifts are active, all throughout church history until the very end, like it said. If we read scripture in context, this is apparent.

Yes, it is definitely legitimate languages and not gobbledygook, there is a point to it.
It always goes off into the subject of tongues, and Paul had to bring everyone back to the point: the subject of love (See 1 Corinthians 13). The main evidence that we are His is that we LOVE one another.

Yes, lot's of masquarading around out there going on, just follow scripture and God speaking to your heart.

And yes, Kathryn Khulman does look and sound like a snake! I think on that we can all agree... !

( ;

Lillianna White said...

John 3; 4-6
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Mark 1; 8
8 I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” See also Luke 3; 16, John 1; 29

John 4; 13-14
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

John 7; 37-39
37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Acts 2; 38-39
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Acts 8; 14-17
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized [e]in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10; 47-48
47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Romans 5;5
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Anonymous said...

Lillian and Don's discernment is correct about Seed Sower and the Scriptures. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a gift that the devil doesn't want believers to ask for or have. It is an essential for every believer to have-it is the oil for our lamps (let the reader understand).

I really hope the rest of the readers of this blog will take out the time to search the Scriptures and pray in regards to what the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is and how it is for today. Do not base your judgment on past bad experiences or personal opinions. Research this for yourself.

In Christ


Lillianna White said...

Thanks JL.

Again, I am only endorsing what the Lord has said in His word, so many more verses exist but the verses above should suffice.

I must say that every time this topic comes up, all of a sudden there are all these hijacking vortices diverting the issue into everything from speaking in tongues, to handling snakes and every activity of the Pentecostalists or whomever, and false signs and wonders (also found in Rev.; the antichrist will deceive the world through *demonic* signs and wonders) and I think there is a false version of this baptism running around the landscape, when the real issue is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and what is involved. Don't let all the fear tactics drive you away, that is what the devil wants, it is spiritual warfare. That is why there is so much confusion on this.

If anyone is unsure of this, the remedy is nothing new; seek the counsel of God through the scriptures and prayer! Ask Him if He has more for you and be ready to surrender your will to Him. Address the prayer to the Father in Jesus name, everything that makes it the legitimate source. You have nothing to lose, only to gain. He will lead you and show you.
( :
Blessings and love to you all!

Anonymous said...

I see the debate goes on, even on this blog which I had hoped I would not see - baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience vs. all who accept Christ get the Holy Spirit and gifts until Christ's return vs. gifts were used until the end of the Apostles debate. I noticed JL wrote "don't base your judgement on past bad experience or personal opinions, research this for yourself" which I assume means "research the Scriptures?" but even giving JL that, I challenge JL, how do you know you are not bringing wrong understanding to the Scriptures? I've heard teachings from both camps, and both are 100% sure they are correct. I can personally say that I was a Pentecostal Christian, baptized in the Holy Spirit "with the evidence of speaking in tongues" for about 10 years but constant immersing myself in Scripture and prayer led me straight out of all of it! It happened slowly because that's how the Holy Spirit works when someone's whole identity in embedded in their denominational teachings/lifestyle, but at 15 years saved looking back I can see the genius of how God convicted me of pride, greed, the flesh, "take-over spirit" etc., all of the carnal things that had attracted me to Pentecostalism. (I was Church of God TN, which says its conservatively in line with the book of Acts teachings, so I am not talking a fringe group here.) After much disowning of Pente ways, I also finally felt led to stop jabbering in my tongues language and my sanity, which had been under attack the whole time I was a Pentecostal, came back to me to where I now am back to my solid mind I had when I got saved BEFORE entering a Pentecostal church. And coincidentally I just ran into a Pente that I knew years ago and she is still just as crazy as she was back then, (she scares me!) and I would say most of the people at my old church were also "not normal". So, to address JL and Lilliana, I had a great time being a Pente except for the side effects (such as demonic attacks, questioning my sanity, anger oppression which I did not attribute to praying in tongues or being slain in the spirit or dancing in or running the aisles or the cool things of church, since those all were thrilling highs at the time) but God's word drew me out of all things Pentecostal. So I have researched it from both sides and I reluctantly came out of it at first because I desired the excitement of it all, but I chose to obey Christ each step of the way until now I am soooo glad I am out and only live by faith now. What a huge difference between me and that Pente lady I ran into today, she was praising Kenneth Copeland and name dropping all over the place and bragging about her new place and job title etc. and I was simply a Christian mailing some letters blessed to be saved by God's grace.

Lori Mac

Anonymous said...

The video shows Paula White "You're All That"

Looked it up. It's her book. They say:

"Renowned speaker Paula White equips readers to conquer pain and build a strong sense of self through principles that have transformed her own life.

Paula White is here to tell you that YOU'RE ALL THAT! As a woman who has experienced tragedy and triumph, poverty and prosperity, Paula is uniquely qualified to share powerful insights with those who desire a better life and a stronger sense of self. Paula writes out of her own painful experiences and reveals the keys to healing, hope, and identity. You were not created to be shackled by negative emotions or memories. You were created to live a bold, dynamic, creative life filled with love and joy!"

So it's must more junk about yourself, get a sense of yourself, it's all about YOU. You were created to be an amazing YOU!

I want to throw up.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like the Joel Olsteen book, Your Best Life Now. Forget about spending eternity with Jesus Christ. Just follow Joel and you too can have it ALL right now. Of course eternity will be considerably hotter! - Don

Bible Believer said...

I reject anything having to do with Azusa street and Pentecostalism, that is why I am glad an ex-Pente Christian here is to warn us. When we are born again the Holy Spirit indwells in us then, stay away from those who want to push some mystical experience to "prove" salvation. I don't like the label baptism of the Holy Spirit because it entails a mystical Pente experience. I left Roman Catholicism within days of being born again--basically staying away from the next Mass and had the Holy Spirit direct me to get a real Bible--KJV [I knew NOTHING about Bible versions, none of that. I had the peace of the Holy Spirit, and more, the intense joy etc. [Which in prayer we Christians all still feel] but please avoid Pente terms. They actually teach people are in some sort of weird holding pattern til they get the tongues and the "baptism of the Holy Spirit". Yes the Holy Spirit indwells the Christian and becomes our teacher etc, but don't turn it into the mystical mumbo-jumbo of the Pentes. The Holy Spirit is leading many out of the errors of Pentecostalism. I have visited acouple Pente churches, this was CURIOSITY [like a field study?] not out of wanting to join. I felt like I was supposed to find something out. I went and left within 15 minutes I felt such darkness. I had to pray to God as a non-participant in Pentecostalism to show me the truth about it.

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

By the way let's be careful here too of the truth falling through the middle between the "cessationists" Baptist types who would think you are crazy to insist that there are yes possessed people today and the Pentes who seek after false experiences and love Rome and promote false mysticism. I have a discernment blog, obviously I believe the Holy Spirit is at work in a Christian's life and there some gifts out there. But the Pente stuff is rot. Just about all of them are ecumenical with Rome.

When I was UU, they taught us meditation, the same empty your mind to let the "holy spirit" in stuff in the Pentes push as the same. In the recesses of my memory, I remember one UU minister talking to us about transcendentalism and how Pentecoastalism enters into it. Hmm that may an interesting article subject. I believe many are seeking after and getting demons, outside of the crowd control and mesmerization types.

How many verses are in the Bible about being sober? Human beings want the pride of having this great flashy experience. Think of the verses about having a meek and quiet spirit, the ones on being sober. People want to get religious highs. Yes that is what they seek rather then the truth. Perhaps some of you like JL etc, are defining "baptism of the holy spirit" differently then Pentes. Maybe Seed Sower is, which is why I wanted to write and ask. But the Pente stuff no way, it's all false.

Bible Believer said...

Yes I want to throw up too, "you are all that", a message based in advancing false narcissism and self esteem for "silly women". I feel for those fooled by this stuff. Also these are things that lead to depression and despair as people face disappointments and their own limitations. Sadly many follow these teachers, out of false self-love and elevation.

Bible Believer said...

I agree too Don, remember the article I wrote about the Best Life now stuff.

Life for Christians on this earth will have sacrifices, many will be poor even for refusing to sell out or to dance with the devil. Some are facing martyrship now on this earth. These lying false preachers are setting up people for a fall.

Anonymous said...

Greetings Lori

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with the pente church. Most of them are doing unbiblical things. Paul addressed this issue that tongues should only be spoken publicly when there is an interpreter. If the is no interpreter, then it is to prayed in private. There is another camp of error that most baptist and pente are guilty of, and that is the "that scripture doesn't apply today" ideology. Baptist believe tongues doesn't apply today, but no women pastors does apply for today. Pentes believe tongues does apply for today but no women pastors does not apply for today. From studying scriptures' the Word has shown me that all of it applies today. I believe in the whole council of God and that is how I know my interpretation is correct. If it is in the bible' I believe it' and if it is not in the bible I don't believe it. Slain in the spirit is not in the bible . that is a false sign. Holy laughter, not in scriptures. This is now crossing into kundalini territory, which opens up a person to demonic occult spirits. Tongues should not have the same syllables repeated over an over. That is a false tongue. God is not the author of confusion. I will not debate this anymore because i dont like dissentions. May God bless you sister,

In Christ


Within His Word said...

What a great series. Very good exposure of the nonsense going on out there, that has been going on for centuries.

Love the one about the witchy looking lady smashing taverns with a hatchet for "jesus". That's great comedy. You can't write stuff better than that. I'm sure comedy wasn't the intent of the witchy looking lady.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit... it is turned into a doctrine where those that teach on it, usually don't use any Bible verses to back up what they say about it. It is usually based on experiences.

But, there is an empowering from the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8). And there are gifts of the Holy Spirit (Romans chapter 12 and 1 Corinthians chapter 12). So there is power to be had. Not power to turn dust into gold or fall on the floor vomiting/laughing uncontrollably. But power to be the witnesses of Jesus Christ, and to use the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Lastly, Chuck Smith never openly said that Aimee Semple McPherson was a fraud, and he went on stage with Kathryn Kuhlman, and Chuck Smith went on TBN with purple hair lady. And Chuck Smith was supposed to be our example of doctrinal purity?

Within His Word said...

What a great series. Very good exposure of the nonsense going on out there, that has been going on for centuries.

Love the one about the witchy looking lady smashing taverns with a hatchet for "jesus". That's great comedy. You can't write stuff better than that. I'm sure comedy wasn't the intent of the witchy looking lady.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit... it is turned into a doctrine where those that teach on it, usually don't use any Bible verses to back up what they say about it. It is usually based on experiences.

But, there is an empowering from the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8). And there are gifts of the Holy Spirit (Romans chapter 12 and 1 Corinthians chapter 12). So there is power to be had. Not power to turn dust into gold or fall on the floor vomiting/laughing uncontrollably. But power to be the witnesses of Jesus Christ, and to use the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Lastly, Chuck Smith never openly said that Aimee Semple McPherson was a fraud, and he went on stage with Kathryn Kuhlman, and Chuck Smith went on TBN with purple hair lady. And Chuck Smith was supposed to be our example of doctrinal purity?

Anonymous said...

I am going to jump in here because my experience has taken me from a Brethren church experience, to the charismatic experiences of my parents in my teen years, to rejecting much of it and going to what most would call Fundamental Christianity.

Hindsight is a good thing.

My parents were of the opinion that "baptism of the Holy Spirit" was a separate thing and raised us in that atmosphere. They left one church and then went to another where they pushed to make many changes.

It would take me pages and pages to describe everything, but I have witnessed so much in the last few decades and I feel I have experienced enough of it that when I went to scripture and repented of the carelessness of that type of atmosphere, and prayed for understanding, that God was faithful in opening my eyes to make sense of so much that was just confusion and craziness to me for so many years.

I got to the point in the various teachings, that when I really started reading the Bible for myself (hours and hours) that I started to remember and recognize the voice of God and it was not lining up to all the teachings that I'd been fed for years about many things.

All Christians are given the Holy Spirit so this separate experience that often comes at a completely different time than salvation - I no longer believe it is from the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

Our church has declared that all members must do an 8 week study on the gifts by Chip Ingram - Your Divine Design. I will not participate because I want to learn from scripture and not be forced to go along with the crowd. I have NEVER ever in decades witnessed anything that would seem Biblical as far as speaking in tongues and the crowd that pushes it along with being slain, dancing around, and laughing and the prophetic. That is my experience. When healers start to go to hospitals to heal the sick instead of making them fill stadiums and being the celebrity, when tongues (languages) can be used to evangelize in foreign countries, then I'll reevaluate.

God is not doing a new thing, he is the same as He ever was and those who start to follow a new doctrine will find themselves on another path soon enough.

I'm old enough now that I've seen a lot, and this is where I come down on it all. I could be wrong, but from what I've seen "out there", I feel that I've been saved from the false church in the nick of time, and I am grateful and I am humbled.

Lillianna White said...

So, I agree with all of these remarks except avoiding the term baptism of the Holy Spirit, since it is in the BIBLE!
Mark 1; 8
8 I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” See also Luke 3; 16, John 1; 29

Again, I don't endorse ANY of that Pente stuff and crazy stuff that goes on in the name of this experience, but again, the word of God talks about this baptism, so let's get a healthy grip on it and not 'throw the baby out with the bathwater.' There is nothing weird about it, nothing crazy happened to me other than what the bible talks about (refer to list of bible verses supplied earlier.) So anyone wishing to argue against that (since that is all I am saying, not endorsing any 'weird' stuff from Pente's), they are not arguing against me, but the word of God. There is a spiritual world and to acknowledge it and navigate it wisely (Ephesians 6, etc.) is not to engage in some 'weird mystical experience.' None of this is a contradiction to 'living by faith' either. Let's not confuse the concepts here. I just don't like people twisting what I say or putting words in my mouth.

2 Corinthians 13; 5-14
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? 6 But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test. 7 Now we pray to God that you do no wrong; not that we ourselves may appear approved, but that you may do what is right, even though we may appear unapproved. 8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. 9 For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. 10 For this reason I am writing these things while absent, so that when present I need not use severity, in accordance with the authority which the Lord gave me for building up and not for tearing down.

11 Finally, brethren, rejoice, be made complete, be comforted, be like-minded, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. 12 Greet one another with a holy kiss. 13 All the saints greet you.

14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


Lillianna White said...

Then there is the issue of continuing to walk and grow in Christ and being sanctified through the Holy Spirit. It is not a 'one stop shop' like those altar calls, you must continue to follow Him. (and no, I am not saying you are not saved by grace) There are volumes of bible verses about walking the walk, etc. We are not just born again, but we grow to maturity. Different things happen to people at different times, and like I said, the bible talks about it, so it is of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (See Mark 1;8 again if needed). Here is this one:
Luke 6;40
40 A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.
So, it's a process.

Sadly I have not noticed too many 'followers' actually following this path set before them. Even in blogs like this, they are full of snarky retorts back and forth. Everyone has a biting remark or is ready to throw someone to the heretics because they believe the gifts are for today or something like that, and next thing you know, they are a crazed and wild eyed pente, running up and down the aisles, shouting jibberish, with an ax!

Now, I'm a scrutinizer too, but I look at a lot of discernment blogs and other things as the Lord has lead me. There is plenty of useful information, even if people are not perfect, to be obtained there. But I have noticed a trend of suspicion and hurtful remarks between them like a tennis match. I recently found a blog called Last Days Watchman (there are 2) and he talks about the lack of love between these ministries and how it is a poor witness to all believer and nonbeliever, discerner and gullible, alike.

1 Corinthians 13; 1-13
13 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to reiterate to JL (but not all of this is just for her) because she said she was sorry I had a bad experience with Pentecostalism, that I had written in my last post: I had a great time being a Pente except for the side effects (such as demonic attacks, questioning my sanity, anger oppression which I did not attribute to praying in tongues or being slain in the spirit or dancing in or running the aisles or the cool things of church, since those all were thrilling highs at the time) but God's word drew me out of all things Pentecostal.

So, I had a great time being a Pentecostal and didn't even know the bad was maybe God allowing the bad to "wake me up" because I was out of line with Scripture. I was always told the demonic attacks were because the devil attacks those who are doing a mighty work for God, which all Pentes' pretty much think they are doing. And I was always doing something for God, some which I still do, such as getting tracts out on the street, but the difference now is my mind is clear and healthy, unlike when I was a Pente. That's what finally really woke me up to the fact that God was trying to get a message to me to renounce my tongues etc., the fact that my mind was really "not right" as a Pente!!! I was upset about the outward attacks that seemed to be all the time, BUT it was the fact that I came to realize that following God should not make someone mentally oppressed/crazy, that woke me up to the knowledge that I was in the wrong denomination!

What really was an eye opener too though was how I began to realize I was a jezebel, like those women in those two videos! I had somehow become one of those brash, aggressive, fame-wanting, attention on me not Christ type of Pentecostal women and that also really, really, really had me scared once God opened my eyes to that! I repented and repented and repented each time I saw the Lord correct me through His Holy Spirit while I was in the Word.

In closing I had a thought recently, (before this post), that the tongues and interpretations or prophetic words we had in our church never amounted to anything that I needed for my Christian walk. I can't even remember a one of those messages! I mean, that says something!!! And I realized that these prophetic messages spoken sometimes in the first person as if the person was channeling God, or sometimes in the "Thus saith the Lord" tense, are no different than what Mormons do with their Book of Mormon being added to the Bible, or the Jehovah Witnesses do with their extra biblical writings, except of course its delivered in a more mystical way which makes people go "ooh and awe, we had a Word from God today!". I even remember one prophetess in our church always wore the long white gown that Aimee and Kathryn were shown to wear in these videos because that was her identity, her claim to fame, she was the prophetess, the one God used!

So, my decision on Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement is they are just as false as the cults are. I feel God is allowing the Pente-Charismatic delusion to sweep the world to see who will stand for Him by standing on the Bible. The book of Acts does not need to be duplicated, the power of God went out and multiplied the church and the signs are not needed now that the Bible is complete. God may choose to do something miraculous to heal or to get someone's attention to save them, but the church today should not be trying to be Apostles and operate on a regular basis in the supernatural. That is just pride and greed at work!

Lori Mac

Anonymous said...

Sorry not trying to hog the post but here's one more clarification since it most likely doesn't make sense to some how I could've loved being a Pentecostal while experiencing all of those bad things along the way. Its because the services at my church were so full of highs, the choir was "anointed" to where you would feel "the spirit fall" "or come in like a wind" on you complete with goose bumps or feeling so elated you would jump, dance, run and shout! The preacher we had was a dynamic speaker and he talked about revival like it was just around the corner, which meant even more supernatural experiences! I was admired for years in my church as one of the ones God was using and was going to use even more mightily in the future and was even invited to become ordained with Church of God by the pastor. Being in church was thrilling and outside of church I had all kinds of dynamic ideas of how much I was going to do for God and I listened to all kinds of "anointed" black gospel music (even though I am white) and Contemporary Christian music and was so excited about how God was overtaking in all of the forms of media and was going to save almost everyone before Jesus returned (this is what most Pentecostals believe, I know better now!) so it was just one high after another! And as I said the attacks were just something that happened because the devil was trying to stop me because I was "so anointed". Now that I am out, I can see all of the addictive behavior and ego stroking that had me bound into my denomination but the last thing I wanted when I was in my hay-day of Pentecostalism, (really the first 5 years), was to ever leave it! Noooooo, I had found the utopia I had always wanted in life! So, no, bad experiences didn't make me leave Pentecostalism, they just made me question it over time, the Lord led me out by showing me how many things didn't line up with Scripture, starting first with the T.V. preachers, then seeing crazy or un-Christian-like behavior in everyday Pentecostal's lives at my church, and then finally being able to see myself as messed up, as compared to how I started as a Christian prior to Church of God. (Thank God I was saved prior to Pentecostalism or else I may have never known there was a peace to be had.) I have to give credit too to the Lord for speaking to me towards the end "Come out of her" which prompted me to buy the book, 50 Years in the Church of Rome by Charles Chiniquy. I thought God was telling me to quit partnering with Catholics in pro-life events so I bought it to get a refresher on how bad Rome is, but through the book the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to how much I had been hanging onto Pentecostalism despite all of the things I had renounced along the way, just like Chiniquy kept doing with Roman Catholicism. And I don't mean a slight conviction, I mean it hit me to where I put the book down and said "ohhhhhh, I get it, I am doing the same thing with Pentecostalism that he did with Catholicism!!!" It was one of the more real moments I have had with God and one I am most grateful for! The Bible verse "a good tree doesn't produce bad fruit" spoken to Chinquy repeatedly by the Holy Spirit throughout the book was the catalyst for Chiniquy's conversion to Christianity (and renunciation of Rome) and my renunciation of Pentecostalism completely! After that, no more tongues and no more identity as a Pentecostal, the last two things to go. God is good!

Thanks for reading my testimony, it's helping me to get it out there,
Lori Mac

Anonymous said...

Lilliana, I do agree with you that people can have an extra experience from the Holy Spirit to strengthen their walk like you described (without tongues following) and I have not been steering my comments about Pentecostalism towards your experience. I am not against God moving however He wants (key words being 'how He wants') in a believer's life (and of course we know its God if it lines up with Scripture) but its the hype in Pentecostal churches that causes people to seek for gifts and signs and how they work up emotionalism to create experiences that causes all kinds of trouble! And that's what I've been venting about, and not disagree-ing with your tesimony at all, so just wanted to put that out there.

Be blessed!
Lori Mac

Lillianna White said...

Sorry, but the battle is a spiritual one, sort of hard to get around the supernatural realm when angels and demons are real beings. I think what has happened in a lot of the churches (beginning with Rome) is that they have taken a completely biblical term and hijacked it off to looney-land, to the point where it means something totally different than the original intended meaning. The Catholic church has done it and the Pentecostals, etc. I just go by what the bible says and the Holy Spirit's interpretation.

It does sound like Pentecostalism is on the road to Rome, and that they fall into the dominionist heresy too (kingdom right around the corner, like some revivalist takeover, only they too forget that the antichrist must rise to power FIRST!). Don't know much about this denomination, thanks for the info., it usually takes an insider to really do a good tell-all.

Only I do believe the gifts are for today too, there is a legit gift of tongues (as the bible says) and I simply believe it is for today too, hopefully people won't want to beat on me for that...

But an interesting testimony, thank you for sharing that!

( :

Lillianna White said...

Hi Lori,

Thanks for mentioning that. The only difference is the gift of tongues, I believe it is for today, not a gibberish, but a legitimate gift. There are real gifts and counterfeit ones. (Even the antichrist will perform miracles, and Pharaoh's magicians duplicated Moses' miracles up to a point). Just like they spoke in tongues in actual languages on the day of Pentecost so that visitors from nations around could understand, so it is today. But many times this goes on in missionary fields more. Just because some hijack a thing and use a counterfeit, doesn't nullify the real. Yet not everyone gets the gift of tongues, that is another false teaching going around. I just wanted to clarify where I am on this issue too, since there is so much confusion, etc., and as soon as you say one thing, everyone wants to put you in a certain category that doesn't fit.

But thank you again and God bless you!

Lillianna White said...

Then there is this issue:
(Just saying in general...)

Matthew 12; 24-26
24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?

I think the religious leaders were jealous and felt that their power structure was threatened, so they attacked by lashing out in that way, blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lilliana, My question about tongues to you would be, how would a person know they have true tongues or hi-jacked by the devil tongues? I was a sincere Christian who got prayed over at the altar at my church and my jaw began to move on its own "under the anointing" and I began to speak in tongues. I prayed in English prior to each tongues prayer time that the Holy Spirit would pray through me whatever He wanted prayed. And I was one who didn't want to disparage the Holy Spirit by not using my gift so I prayed alot in tongues. I rarely got an interpretation for what I was praying and I noticed as I was a Pente longer and longer I began to curse more in English. In looking back I now have to wonder if maybe I was cursing in tongues and it brought on that terrible temper and foul language? I have heard people say this too, that they stopped praying in tongues because they were afraid they were cursing God instead of blessing Him. I used to go out and pray in tongues over a seedy strip club neighborhood hoping I would get an opportunity to witness to some strippers and lead them to Christ. I would have to say most of the encounters I had were Christians I met who were 1)either suicidal because they got away from the Bible 2) were practicing some occult gift like telekinesis or mind-reading and their lives were jacked-up and they were weird or 2) a Christian Pente woman who was living on the street because God was testing her to see if she would obey Him and then He would give her her church to be pastor of etc. (The last one cost me $80 to get rid of her because she jumped in my car to come and live with me because she "sensed my anointing" and wanted to build the church with me - I had to take her to a hotel and pay for it and pretend I didn't hear her when she called out to get my phone #) This was supposed to be mission-evangelization outreach work and so why wasn't tongues helping me? I actually began to realize it was the tongues that was allowing the devil to bring me really crazy situations out there and I stopped praying in tongues. The craziness stopped shortly thereafter and I didn't meet anymore of those types of messed up Christians. I believe God was allowing me to see a reflection of myself by meeting those messed up Christians obviously messed up by their non-adherence to Scripture. I also would like to post this I found about a young Mormon missionary who used tongues and interpretation successfully, which if the Mormons and the Catholics are successful in tongues, what does that say? I know the commentary, "it's that the devil is a counterfeiter", but what if tongues were just for a sign for the Jews to see God building His church and now they've ceased? I guess we all have to decide for ourselves, but I really tried for 10+ years to do what the Bible said (I thought) and pray in the tongue language I was given in church through a sincere prayer to receive it, and now I currently believe it was a sign to the Jews for that time in building the church away from the old system.


Lillianna White said...

Hi Lori and thank you for sharing that! (:
It definitely sounds like a strange thing has gotten hold there, especially after what you said happened as a result. Some of it might be because of the place and the people around you (if people were laying their hands on you, etc.). I have heard of false experiences too. All I know is that there definitely is a real and a counterfeit. I have heard of more miraculous gifts in the mission field (maybe as an initial sign in new territory?) I did not get the gift of tongues, I have witnessed it on occasion in a normal way with interpretation. One instance it involved a message to the church leadership (that they really didn't want to hear). I would not get too wound up over it, just pray to God like you have been doing lately. Not everyone is supposed to get the tongues gift anyway. There is way too much hype over it though. I would rather not have it because I like to know what I am saying. I was alone with the bible when I had my experience, no church, no affiliation, no one around. I wasn't even going to any church at the time, I was just in the Word and seeking to know who God is.

As to knowing if it is the legit or not, there is a bible verse about testing the spirits that someone mentioned, beyond that I just don't know. I feel like I have a discernment gift and some like that, I feel like I can sense if something is of God or not. As an example, I remember over 20 years ago before all this apostasy went full blown, I would hear a speaker on the radio and in my spirit I just knew something was not legit about that guy. I never said this to anyone at the time, I was in a place where they all loved these people. But that much later I found out I was right, (or the Spirit) and looking back it all makes sense.

My best advice for anyone anyway including myself, is to do this (even if you don't think it's necessary, it doesn't hurt):
1. Renounce any power the devil has over you. This could be by past experiences in the occult, etc. that has been yielded to that realm.
2. Verbally and with internal intention surrender your whole being to God the Father in the name of Jesus and ask the Holy Spirit to take control of you completely.
3. Repent of anything you can think of and ask God to show you if there is anything else you need to repent of (unconfessed sin, etc.).
4. Cleanse your house of anything that has occultic influence. According to the bible, this gives the devil a foothold. Lots in the bible about that stuff too. Examples include anything to do with magic, charms, other religions, any occult symbols (even the star of David, most are unaware of this, it has to do with Solomon and occult influence), you can do a google search about items. Definitely pray about it and ask God to show you, whether you feel sure or not that a thing is okay. Surprisingly, many people who suffer attacks of spiritual warfare discover that removing these things solves the problem. Even things we collect unintentionally, don't ask me, but it works. There is a principle about it in the bible and a lot of the battles Israel had entering the land are symbolic of this exact thing. Remember the sin of Achan in Joshua 7? He brought some mantle from Babylon (plain of Shinar) associated with things pagan, etc. that he nabbed, and they lost the battle? Anyway, it works. We should all do this sort of housecleaning regularly, self included.
5. Obviously pray and be in the bible.

God bless you and I hope this helps! (:

Eternally Home said...

Your post on March 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, "I also would like to post this I found about a young Mormon missionary who used tongues and interpretation successfully, which if the Mormons and the Catholics are successful in tongues, what does that say?"

To answer your post. The Holy Spirit is NOT giving the gift of tongues to the Mormons or Catholics per this link you left.

Gift of Tongues on my Mormon Mission -

Mormons are a cult! This young man even mentioned the "golden plates" that Joseph Smith lied about that he supposedly received from and angel.

BB didn't comment on your link. So I will take it that she didn't see the link and your comment wasn't viewed since you responded quite a few times on this topic.

The Holy Spirit is GOD and he cannot be fooled. Mormons and Catholics are not born-again of the Holy Spirit of GOD!