Sunday, February 2, 2014

Jacob Prasch's Video On Calvary Chapel




Found this video here:

UPDATED – Jacob Prasch appears to attempt magic at Calvary Chapel

I agree with that bloggers conclusions.

I've warned about Jacob Prasch on this blog before.  I consider him a false teacher.  I used to be weirded out by all the defenses of Chuck Smith over on his website Moriel, so why this now? What is strange is I have heard Prasch praise the likes of Billy Graham but then warn about Rick Warren and he says nothing FOR YEARS when Chuck Smith invites Rick Warren on stage?

Some of my thoughts in opposition to what he has to say:

1. Pentecostalism was a false root from the start. Azusa was rotten to the core. It didn't have to go off the rails later!

2.Calvary Chapel the main group God would use with the likes of Lonnie Frisbee? The man who "found" god via LSD?  How is God going to use a group with very dubious origins? The Jesus Movement in my opinion was NOT of God.



3. Why wait til Chuck Smith is dead to admit his errors? That seems strange like one did not care enough about the man to warn him of his errors.

4. Calvary Chapel had a biblical foundation? No it did not. Not whatsoever.

5. Prasch states that "the light is going out in Calvary Chapels" and then adds "most of them not all of them". Can someone explain to me the difference between a "good" Calvary Chapel and one that had the light go out? I'm not seeing any difference. What is it?

Have any of the supposed "good ones" rejected Boykin or the Knights of Malta?

Warned against the Lausanne movement?

Warned against other false teachers besides the "safe" ones?

6. He focuses on the false misdirection of the Emergent church. Well warning about the Emergents is SAFE, not warning about the World Christian Movement or Billy Graham. Remember I discovered Calvary Chapel had connections to Lausanne.

7. This idea that Chuck Smith went apostate because of his health and age is nonsense. I used to hear this from a few Calvary Chapelites a few years ago who would tell me you are being too hard on Chuck Smith for him visiting with Rick Warren.

They told me he is going senile, he is too old and sick to excuse all sorts of doings. They made endless excuses that Chuck Smith was manipulated. Hmm if he was some poor old man being manipulated how does that excuse the silence of those around him. He seems lucid enough here:



Chuck Smith had no problem associating with Kathryn Kuhlman who was openly ecumenical with Rome in his early days, so this claim that Smith kept company with Rick Warren out of going senile is silly.



Do any of you find that strange how Prasch stresses this?

It is funny to me that now we hear excuses from Prasch for Smith meeting with Warren. I do not buy these excuses. Could someone have manipulated him via old age and illness to meet with the Pope? What does that say about him as a religious leader? Also these comments are kind of late in the day.

That said a supporter of Billy Graham in Chuck Smith's case isn't that far removed from a supporter of one world religion and ecumenical Rick Warren. Billy Graham hobnobs with the politicians, teaches that other religions are salvific. So does Rick Warren. What's the difference?




8. He points out the problems with connections with Rick Warren but what about Knights of Malta Boykin and some of the other connections that have been exposed all over the internet between Calvary Chapel pastors and false teachers. He doesn't mention any of those folks.

9. Why do all these Calvary Chapel pastors privately agree but not publically? Should we respect men who are too cowardly to say what they believe publically? How many years has it been since the problems all got started? What year did Smith meet with Warren, 2009? They had 5 years to speak out.

10. Was Chuck Smith a godly man or just deceived when he considered Catholics to be Christians?

11. So one is to stay silent out of respect when a man has strayed from the faith or never had it to begin with? [15:05] That makes no sense. Why didn't he try to warn him? Letting a person waltz off to destruction is not a sign of Christian love.

Where does it say in the Bible that to grow old means you lose your spiritual "sight"? God would understand someone with Alzheimers but Chuck Smith was doing speeches and traveling even as late as 2012.  He was not in full blown dementia.

He seemed lucid during the time he sat by Rick Warren.

12. Prasch speaks of his respect for John Higgins, Jack Hibbs, and Mike Macintosh among others...

John Higgins was involved in the early part of the Jesus Movement

Mike Macintosh supports Billy Graham

What about the long list of Calvary Chapel pastors who are associated with Billy Graham and his ministries? This of course included Chuck Smith when he was still alive.

Bob Coy of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale is one well-known Calvary Chapel pastor who has also promoted Billy Graham. One interesting connection is that Bob Coy has hired one of Graham's grandsons as a pastor in his churches. Stephan Jr. Is a minister at Calvary Chapel of Fort Lauderdale. [11]Calvary Chapel of Fort Launderdale also has had both Billy Graham and Franklin Graham among its guest speakers on CCFL] [12] Bob Coy has also written for Decision magazine [13] the BGEA magazine and spoken at the Cove, [the BGEA seminar center] [14] ironically doing a sermon on Nov 6-9, 2009 called “What the Devil Doesn't Want You to Know” [yes the devil doesn't want you to know the truth about Billy Graham-Franklin Graham or the ecumenical movement!]

Mike McIntosh, another Calvary Chapel pastor, also has a picture of himself with Graham on the front page of the new edition of his biography "For the Love of Mike" written by Sherwood Eliot Wirt. He also supports Billy Graham. Isn't there something wrong with a Calvary Chapel pastor seeking BGEA methods of training? What does that entail? Helping to send people back to Catholic churches like Graham has at his Crusades? Telling people unity comes before truth?
[15] This is 'enhancement that churches can do without!

“My pride loved it,” said McIntosh, pastor of Horizon Christian fellowship in San Diego. 'I was getting media attention, and I thought this was kind of cool” But as he sough counsel from members of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, to form a school of evangelism, based on BGEA's methods of training, his perceptions began to change. McIntosh said he saw how the mission of BGEA is to enhance other's ministries, namely those of the local church-and he wanted to take a similar approach".

Chuck Smith as the founder of Calvary Chapel has written for BGEA magazine and has praised Billy Graham as well, comparing BG's statements above, about the 'ecumenical supposed “body of Christ” which comes very close in outlook, and seems to share in the same watered down gospel. In his 1993 book, “Answers for Today” Smith says:

“Paul points out that some say I'm of Paul while others say, “I'm of Apollo'. He asked, 'Isn't that carnal?” But what's the difference between saying 'I'm a Baptist, I am a Presbyterian, I'm a Methodist, I'm a Catholic? I have found that the more spiritual a person becomes, the less denominational he is. We should realize that we're all part of the body of Christ, and that there aren't any real divisions in the Body. We're all one.”
[16]


13. It is strange he calls out false preachers, though this is not said one could surmise he is not happy with the choice of Brodersen taking the helm. How are they any different from some of his favorites who are part of the Billy Graham network or supporters of him?

My Visit to the Billy Graham Center

What is the real difference between a Rick Warren supporter or a Billy Graham supporter theologically?

{amending: one of my commenters claims that Prasch has called out the errors of Billy Graham in more recent days,  I would like to see those articles, but then one could ask why so much support then for those who like Chuck Smith who openly praised Billy Graham and who was considered a personal friend by Franklin Graham?}

14. None of this makes any sense. Hey he may have one thing right Calvary Chapel could split up. Others have said as much. {not an endorsement} Most personality cult churches do split up when the founder dies. If some are unhappy being under the dove, why not just go independent?  I found this video odd, a whole lot didn't make sense. Why do they have him sitting inside the corner of the table surrounded by endless Chuck Smith books?

38 comments:

Within His Word said...

I can't help but comment on this one as well, you're being given a lot of good things to talk about today. Yes, Jacob Prasch will point out when someone is rolling on the floor and vomiting in the "spirit" and call people out on that, but when it comes to Billy Graham and Calvary Chapel, or Jerry Boykin and Calvary Chapel, a deadening silence.

Many have pointed out Prasch's flirtation over the years with unbiblical "midrash", where Prasch pretty much tries to convince you that you can't understand the Bible without his little methodology, which is total nonsense of course.

Bible Believer said...

Yes I am tired of these false teachers who will call out the "safe" wolves, for some reason to Prasch Rick Warren is BAD, while Billy Graham is GOOD to Jacob Prasch, when essentially they are the same thing when stripped down to their essence, two ecumenists marching off millions to the one world religion. When I wrote this too early all of Prasch's weird, "I didn't tell him he was wrong out of respect" stuff bothered me too. It almost smacks of people putting professional desires ahead of the truth. Call out Chuck Smith on some errors then I guess one could lose a few speaking engagements?

I wrote about the "Midrash" stuff with Prasch acouple years ago, he is definitely entering non-biblical land there.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/07/part-two-jacob-prasch-midrash-and-some.html

This article would cover Prasch's errors too though I don't name him until Part 2.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/07/part-one-deception-using-judaism-titus.html

I knew acouple Calvary Chapel people I warned about Chuck Smith and the rest but they blindly followed Prasch on the "Chuck Smith is senile" excuses years ago.

I think Prasch is there to cater to the would be Hebrew Roots/Christian Zionist/"Jews First" crowd within Calvary Chapel and associated parachurch organizations/denominations.

I'm not surprised if there will be a split between factions.


Lillianna White said...

And we should warn people 'out of respect'! Isn't that how we love our brother?!?

Speaking of all roads converging to rome, guess who just made the cover of the New Yorker?

Anyone know what I'm driving at here?

Anonymous said...

I have heard Prasch MANY times call out Billy Graham. Not that I am defending Prasch, but you are digging out older comments. In recent days he HAS talked against Graham. And the proper word for Midrash is not a book, the Jewish word for interpretation. Have you even ever heard his teachings?? He does not teach Hebrew Roots stuff. Hebrew Roots bring people back under the law. Some also even deny the Holy Spirit. So I am sorry but your accusations are not altogether accurate. Yes, before my words get twisted, I DO think he is in error for praising Hibbs and even not mentioning Smith and Boykin. But lets be fair here, if you are going to expose him then at least do it accurately.

Take care.

Jeff

Anonymous said...

Midrash is garbage, it leads a person to Pharisaical false teachings. Prasch is a false teacher.

Bible Believer said...

Please show me an example of Prasch calling out Graham directly HIMSELF. I will add them to the article. I heard him praise the man directly from listening to one of those bible conferences a few years ago I wrote about it here in the comments:

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-does-jacob-prasch-endorse-lausanne.html

Also just calling out a few errors, too does not totally warn against Billy Graham, or now his son, misleading many into the one world religion. And even if you can prove this case, why is the focus so much MORE on Rick Warren then and why is he praising those who have been directly tied to Billy Graham like McIntosh who has him write a forward to one of his books and of course previously Chuck Smith?

Yes I know he does not consider himself Hebrew Roots but many of his teachings are derived from that area IMO. Even if you claim salvation via faith but then emphasize Judaism, that just a watered down version when you claim the rabbis had a more special ability or that there are special techniques to understand scripture [over a born again Christian led by the Holy Spirit]

Simon&Marina Ochman said...

Just wanted to add here that after our friends told us about this video of Prasch we watched it and were amazed at how Chuck Smith was praised and everything he did wrong was defended in this video.It was very sad to hear and yes, video seemed very odd to us too! All this 'Good' pastors of Calvary Chapel whom Prasch mentioned never publicly admitted or addressed anything including association of Calvary Chapels with Rick Warren or Mark Driscoll or Billy Graham and even if to remember Chuck Smith's remark on abortion- in spite of thousands and thousands of people being outraged by such remark/advise of Chuck Smith-it was never addressed publicly by any of those 'good' pastors! Why? I actually saw someone tried to post comments to thaat video on Moriel facebook page on this matters with giving some info on one of mentioned pastor Macintosh(on how he supports gay agenda promoter mayor of San Diego) but his comments were all deleted , I actually tried to reply to that person who posted those comments, in my comment I also expressed doubt about Chuck Smith being manipulated into anything he was doing last several yrs and I also gave link to lighthousetrail.com article from Roger Oakland there and posted picture of Chuck Smith picture with Rick Warren where they both look very happy and smiling. Moriel ministry deleted my comment too..

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for your post, yes the excuses Chuck Smith's endless apostasies was insane. So one question one could ask Prasch, how come it's wrong when Rick Warren says Catholics are Christians too and not when Chuck Smith says it. [he wrote it when younger too not just during the fantasy "senile" years]. One thing I tell people while all humans make mistakes when one's sees repeated INCONSISTENCIES, that's a problem.


So yes thanks for noticing it is a strange video too.

One of those online Calvary Chapelites I had to part ways with years ago and one who used to leave me insults here during the early days of this blog, also claimed there was this huge number of behind the scenes anti-ecumenical pastors ready to stand up against the one world religion etc [not just against the safe Emergent issue]. I actually challenged this person on the comments on here years ago and said "Show me one of those guys!" Hey invite them here. Show me a link. I never saw one anywhere. These must be the most silent pastors in the world. I dare say if some pastor in Calvary Chapel became aware of many of the issues warned about on this blog, and opened their mouth, they probably wouldn't last long. Even Roger Oakland who seemed like he was sounding the warning cries, was still hanging out with Missler and pals. One thing that bugged me too big time, was this idea of "respect" trumping one opening their mouth about horrendous religious errors.
How come none of these good guys never warned about Greg Laurie hanging out with Rick Warren etc. We saw Mark Discroll invited to an elephant room with other Calvary Chapel pastors. Funny how all these "good" guys were silent all these years. I am glad someone tried to post comments on Moriel and you did too,I guess I am not surprised that they censored the comments.

Surely many are seeing the definite inconsistencies.

Bible Believer said...

Not one of those "good" guys ever came out against Boykin. {Knights of Malta etc} Surely one of them must go online and see some of these warnings. I don't know much about this guy but he wrote several Calvary Chapel letters that were ignored.

http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/calvary_chapel_hawaii_pastors_silenced.html

Bible Believer said...

For anyone new here, you will find these articles interesting per this discussion:

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-any-calvary-chapel-pastors-or.html

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/11/calvary-chapel-set-up-from-start.html

Within His Word said...

"I dare say if some pastor in Calvary Chapel became aware of many of the issues warned about on this blog, and opened their mouth, they probably wouldn't last long."

Right. That is why, I am convinced that at least SOME exist. There are Calvary Chapel pastors out there that are aware of these issues, but they can't say a thing. If they did say something, then they would be painted as persona non grata at the next regional and national Calvary Chapel pastors conference.

They would point out that:

1) Chuck Smith has ALWAYS falsely said that catholics are Christians, in his books and in his sermons. Remember he said that his own cousin was a nun, and he refused all his life to tell her that she was on the road to perdition in the catholic religion.

2) Greg Laurie (and later Chuck Smith) joined up with Rick Warren early on, and he speaks at Saddleback often.

3) Billy Graham is basically borderline worshiped by all "big name" Calvary Chapel guys. If you don't believe this, just go to them and ask them about Billy Graham's universalism or catholic sympathies. You'll be shown the door. Yet Chuck Smith routinely in his sermons would give high praise to Billy Graham, for decades he did this.

These are just three examples. A Calvary Chapel pastor that speaks openly about these things, will cease to be considered a part of the "pastor circle".

Anonymous said...

I only listened to a little of the Prasch video because after the first part about Chuck Smith he went right into his usual dialogue about not making converts but making disciples. I have to question him on a few things. 1)I found it very disingenuous that he spoke his "true feelings" about Chuck Smith after his death. 2) I can't believe he actually thinks God uses main groups to spread the Gospel such as Calvary Chapel in the different eras 3) His use of the word "movement" in describing the spreading of the Gospel is not good 4) And lastly as a person who gives out tracts, I have to disagree with Prasch's teachings that evangelism without discipleship = zero. In a perfect world people would get discipled in church after reading a tract but now the church's are really messed up, so does that mean I stop giving out tracts? No, the Holy Spirit will begin to work in that newly saved person's life as I continue to pray for those I reach with tracts. Overall I find listening to Prasch (from the past and still now) frustrating because he almost sounds right about things but it doesn't sit well in my soul after a few minutes of listening.

Blessings,
Lori

Anonymous said...

"I have to disagree with Prasch's teachings that evangelism without discipleship = zero."

I totally disagree with Prasch about that too. Basically Prasch is in the "lordship salvation" false gospel of works that cannot save anyone. He is blind to the difference between the free gift of salvation vs. the reasonable expectation of one to become a disciple. Not every believer becomes a good disciple, but that doesn't take away their salvation. Prasch can't see this because he believes the lie of the "lordship salvation" false gospel.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous who wrote this: I totally disagree with Prasch about that too. Basically Prasch is in the "lordship salvation" false gospel of works that cannot save anyone.

Thanks for explaining that to me because I didn't know he was of the Lordship Salvation mindset. Based on is own teachings he would be in very big trouble because just in his Calvary Chapel video alone he shows he's not a very good disciple. (not telling his friend Chuck he's off-course and telling the truth about him after he's dead.) Anyway, thanks for your input on also not agreeing with his evangelism = zero teachings. I don't want to be discouraged when I am trying to put tracts out there and men like him and John MacArthur suck the wind out of Christians!

Blessings,
Lori

Lillianna White said...

Yes, and another thing, God uses different people at different times for different things. Never stop doing all you can. I do many things at various levels and places as the time is short. I hand out tracts, someone may get saved, and someone else may come along and disciple them. God will use someone as needed. Just don't let anyone discourage you from serving the Lord in a legitimate way, that is a definite red flag. Yes, nothing is perfect, especially church these days. Most who get 'saved' and go to church never get discipled anyway for numerous reasons. These days with full blown apostasy, it is safer to stay away!

Now on to my case; it is a rare one but shows that it can be done and God doesn't even need anyone to do this. To make a long story short, as a child I had wanted a bible but it took a while till one landed in my hands. I started reading it and after going through the new testament I felt an instinct to commit myself to Jesus (and I had also repented by the way of my teenage ways). A moment later I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (a 3 hour experience and no, I did not speak in tongues). As I read more and continued, I became what is called sanctified and discipled and well versed in Scripture. I actually started going to church later because I wanted to read the whole bible first so I know what standard to hold a church up to. No one had ever told me I should 'give my life to God,' or anything, or ever witnessed to me at all, ever, period. This was over 25 years ago but it shows that it can be done if no one else is around to plant the seed, water it, etc.

But I just do what I can as God sends things my way and I always have some tracts handy.

Keep up the good work!
Blessings

Lillianna White said...

Keep serving the Lord and handing out tracts, that is ludicrous and highly suspect that anyone would want to discourage that. We all have a part to do and someone may plant a seed and another come along and water it, etc. The best discipleship these days is far from the churches for many reasons anyway.

I got saved by God supplying me with a bible as a young teenager, no one ever witnessed to me or anything, I felt this pressing urge to 'give myself to God' so after reading for some time in the new testament (and repenting of sin) I did just that and a moment later I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (3 hours of liquid love flowing through my heart and no, I did not speak in tongues as I did not get that gift, but others). I kept reading and became sanctified and discipled as well as anyone and only after reading the whole bible did I even go to church so I would know the truth and be able to recognize the false when I saw it. So God doesn't even need us for that. In the middle east people are even having dreams about Jesus and the bible and going from there. But keep doing all you can and I will too.

God bless you!

Luca said...

Bible Believer,what do you think of the situation in Tibet?

Anonymous said...

Interesting Riptide segment.

Skull Church with Levi Lusko?

I googled images and there's Levi with Greg Lurie and Driscoll. Same people in the video.

I saw people at the stage at the church looking so emotional. Playing on the emotions seems to be a great tool for the emergent/new age church.

I can't imagine sitting in a 'church' with a big 'ol skull and crossbones at the front. That pretty creepy.

Mixing the profane with righteousness is the order of the day with Calvary it looks like. But they say we need new methods. Chuck said people are too rigid.

That's what I was called not too long ago because I speak out against the new age/contemplative stuff.

Why can't I take a little from Jesus, a little from Buddah, a little from this, a little from that, they asked.

Kind of fitting Skip's show is called Riptide. The deception sweeping the church is like a rip tide. The wave coming in with all the false teaching is on our shore ready to sweep all the easy believers out to sea.





Anonymous said...

In the Riptide video Alwyn Wall said a problem in Calvary Chapel is people may want to become a celebrity , but being a celebrity is not such a bad thing if God puts you there.

Ummm, which disciples in the Bible had celebrity status? None.

Who worships celebrities today? The world.

I saw this verse in Lamentations last night:

Lamentations 2:14
Your prophets have said so many foolish things, false to the core. They did not save you from exile by pointing out your sins. Instead, they painted false pictures, filling you with false hope.

Bible Believer said...

I have a hard time believing the good guys exist in Calvary Chapel pastorships outside the nice and sincere but DUPED crowd. They probably know ways to get ones out of there who come into the truth. Yes at the next conference they would push them out or censor them in some ways. You are right about Smith always saying that about Catholics. I think a lot of people [this included me when I moved and attended a Calvary Chapel for a short time] see Calvary Chapel as far more "conservative". The whole warning about the Emergents thing does give them the air of being a discerning church when they are anything but. There is double-speak to warn about Emergents and then hang out with the likes of Billy Graham and Catholic ecumenists.
Yes Billy Graham is held up high by all of them. I noticed a page taken down on a Calvary Chapel website where one pastor was praising Billy Graham and someone put up those links where Graham denies Jesus Christ and about him being a freemason in the comments.
Yeah ones who come to know the truth or bravely speak out, probably would have no choice but to leave the system.

Course as far as the big name ones go, one thing I have noticed is they all seem to have connections that go way back. Shiloh, Jesus Movement, California etc. Newbie outsiders on the top tiers seem rare.

Bible Believer said...

Yeah the making disciples thing was weird. I have written against the easy believism and false converts, but what is wrong with seeking to convert someone or preach the gospel in the first place? That spiel seemed odd and Prasch expects decent discipleship in fallen away churches. The poor discipleship is one reason people fall for his deceptions with extra biblical Midrash, and respecter of person's false Jewish Zionism. Otherwise people would know the truth. I think anyone who hides true feelings like that, it is suspect. I am not saying one can lay out one's life history to every wolf, but he considered Smith a friend and ally and couldn't say one thing or write the guy a letter? He doesn't officially "work" for Calvary Chapel so what would have been lost in speaking the truth, a few speaking engagements? Yes too the part about main groups to spread the gospel was weird too almost like a liturgical going on about the "visible church". Since when are "movements" biblical? Basically "movement" is just another name for religious fad. I agree why stop giving out tracts if the churches are messed up. I have hit that wall of witnessing the gospel and having someone get saved, and then they say to me "Where do I go to church?" Is his answer not to preach the gospel at all? Prasch on the surface sounds very good and knowledgeable, I can see why he gets so many listeners, but once you see through it all, you figure out something is really wrong. The inconsistencies add up. Here too if someone really loved Jewish people and wanted them saved, they wouldn't be praising NWO Zionism, and advancing false Judaism mixed with Christianity to "interpret" scripture.
I agree something bothered me big time about that stuff. There is a free gift of salvation, even if one is worried about false converts, and I've written against that too, it was an odd thing to say.
I agree about preaching the gospel and at times we may have to pray for others to disciple the new Christian especially if we live far away or there are other circumstances that get in the way.

It is possible to read the Bible and be convicted by God's Word, the gospel is in there. I had been preached to by Christians years earlier, but that is how I was saved. I didn't know one born again Christian when I was born again. But then I had read many tracts during those earlier years. We need to get the truth out there.

Riptide---DRAGGING PEOPLE UNDER?

I thought that watching the video.

Why did that guy name his church SKULL?

I thought that too.

What next Devil Church? Demons Galore Church?

Maybe they are trying to do truth in advertising.

I may write an article tomorrow asking WHY DID THIS GUY NAME HIS CHURCH SKULL?

It's got an X marker on it too. [in one of side panels]

Skull and Bones?


http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/442/381/442381115_640.jpg

Ah I'll post on this tomorrow....

Lillianna White said...

Skull and bones (crossbones) is a symbol of the illuminati, freemasonry, and antichrist all rolled into one. Nothing surprises me anymore.

(I guess that last item got posted twice, it looked like there was a glitch so I tried to redo it.)

Anonymous said...

One of the images in Google for Skull Church, they say, "he went to the place of the skull for you".
Is that in reference to Golgatha?

I think it's just an excuse to put skulls all over your ministry and be 'cool' and 'relevant'.

I see Family Force Five and Red have played there.

Family Force Five is just another 'christian' rock band using the same old images of zombies and stuff like the Whosoevers and My Child My Bride.

A friend of mine said she wrote Greg Lurie and asked him why he spoke at the Skull Church when they use symbolism representing satan - and she never got an answer.

I'm sure he threw her letter in the trash.

FaithGuy3 said...

Alzheimers is a very serious disease b/c as we all know, people who have this are very slow to react to anything(won't go into all of the details, but pt being that if Chuck Smith had any senility, then he wouldn't exactly be traveling around the country et al, much less working every day until he died).

This is the same excuse I hear with Billy Graham and his "errors" in "recent years" - that his health problems have somehow played a factor.

Bottom line - scripture tells us to be SOBER.

1Peter_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

If Smith and B. Graham were really servants of God, then they would be sober even in their days of "health problems".

FYI, didn't Epaphroditus have health problems too?

Phillipians 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
Php 2:26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
Php 2:27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
Php 2:28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful.
Php 2:29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation:
Php 2:30 Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life, to supply your lack of service toward me.

As for these "discernment" ministry-types that expose the Emergent Church, and NOTHING else...pretty much they're playing a bait-and-switch game with you - they expose and "warn" you about a small group of heretics, then they will turn right around and endorse people like Chuck Smith to you that yoke up with these Rick Warren types, and Voila! They endorse you right back to Warren, Bill Hybels, and their New Age teachings.

Also - as for these NON-Emergent Churches that these "discernment" ministries say there's nothing to worry about? Almost all of them are very, very bad too - they may not be yoked with Purpose Driven or Willow Creek Assoc, but nonetheless they endorse a lot of the same leaven and abominations as these ECs do.(ie-contemplative prayer, 'spiritual disciplines', corrupt bible versions, CCM, etc)

FaithGuy3 said...

Just viewed the "Rick Warren does tribute to Chuck Smith" video...

Revolution? Change?

Huh? Hasn't Obama put a big emphasis on just that? Change? And the same Republican-voting Smith supporters who have been exposing Obama through and through for this, are also the same ones who have turned a blind eye on Smith over this?

Proverbs_24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:

As for revolution - it IS a communist term(that has been used by them over history).

Also - there was just no showing these people of the word of God. No bible or anything was mentioned to their flock. All it was was glorying men.

And notice too all of the rock music being played to this same flock. Whatever happened to honouring thy father and mother? It seemed like these professing former drug users converts acted the same way toward their parents like before(as Mark Driscoll seemed to telegraph and had no qualms with it).

Anonymous said...

"This idea that Chuck Smith went apostate because of his health and age is nonsense."

It is a half truth:

He publically went apostate because of health and age. His heart was always apostate.

In his latter years, out of the abundance of his heart, his mouth spoke. He could no longer conceal his deception.

Anonymous said...

Jeff wrote, " Have you even ever heard his teachings?? He does not teach Hebrew Roots stuff. Hebrew Roots bring people back under the law. Some also even deny the Holy Spirit. So I am sorry but your accusations are not altogether accurate."

Hello Jeff,
I used to post at the now defunct message forum, Moriel Messagebord. On this forum Dave Royle, missionary and director of the Moriel Bible College was marking himself for the occult, big-time!

I have saved some comments but the administrator banned me (you will see my tone was not rude) because of the things I was pointing out. I know some well-meaning Christians people follow Jacob Prasch but things with him are not what they appear. -- Lisa Ruby

Please see:

http://libertytothecaptives.net/jesus_is_not_lucifer.html

atmo joyo said...

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Romans Chapter 16
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

I think God has warned us about false teachers and prophets

Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Anonymous said...

The "Star of David" on Prash's shirt in the first video says it all. I thought I would pass along a good video on basic spiritual warfare; www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkoeXDc5sE - Don

Bible Believer said...


Yes the skull and crossbones is the worse symbol out there. I posted about the Skull church today.
I think they are doing it to be "cool" but also marking themselves. I mean otherwise why add an extra big X and the turning of the skull.

Yes many of the phony rock bands are all using the same symbols. I guess their designers aren't that creative, it's always the same Illuminati mucky-muck isn't it?

I'm sure Greg Laurie ignored her letter too.
I agree Faithguy, someone with Alzheimers is not running around traveling the globe to do speeches and conferences or to get welcomed on stage by Rick Warren.
If anything health problems would have one at home, time in prayer, thinking, studying, reading the bible more, and able to discern better, but we sure haven't seen it with those guys have we?

Yes the Emergent warners basically send back their prey into the net of the enemy, you got that right!

I want to gag seeing all the references to Revolution. More ignorance of history that is cloying and despicable because just about every political revolution has brought violence and death. Now the religious have adopted it, not just on the left but on the so called right too. I should to a post about the use of that term.

Revolution just another word for rebellion.

I'm not saying there has never been wicked governments.....but in a religious context, their use of it is interesting..

I agree Smith was always apostate, maybe he downplayed a few things, and then waited til he was an old man knowing the masses would make more excuses for him.

Prasch isn't technically Hebrew Roots he won't tell you that you are going to hell if you don't celebrate Jewish holidays or go eat some pork, I'd put him more in the watered down version there of.

I am not surprised Moriel had a Sith Dark lord or whatever that was on the message board. Hey with all the evangelical phonies you will find a legion of marked occult types--there was Cauldron or something like that on the Carm board--and the mods let him have free reign. I am glad you exposed that.

The star of david is occult. All that study of Prasch's and he doesn't get it is Babylonian symbol yet related to false Kabbalah influenced Judaism. Funny what those Jewish Zionist experts never know...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/03/truth-behind-star-of-david.html

Anonymous said...

Interesting entry here Bible Believer. I was studying and meditating upon the Book of Amos this morning and came across these Scriptures;

"Did you off Me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? You also carried Sikkuth your king and Chiun, your idols, the star of your gods, which you made for yourselves. Therefore I will send you into captivity beyond Damascus," said the LORD, whose name is the God of hosts."

I know the star of David is of the occult and proudly displayed by jewish people and supporters of the geopolitical Israel, it seems, without a true knowledge of what that star is or means.

What I am wondering and have this uneasy burden in the pit of my soul, is this: I believe the star our LORD is making refernce to penned by the prophet Amos by inspiritation of God, the Holy Spirit, is that same "star of your gods" is actually what we call the "star of david." And throughout the centuries, this serpent symbol has been transformed into something "good" by a people seeking signs from other gods.

I have watched several Jacob Prasch videos on "discernment" and what I cannot understand is "why does he quote individuals like Brian McLaren in a positive light when those who are truly discerning, know Mr. McLaren to be a wolf in sheep's clothing/a false teacher?"

Perhaps pride is deluding even the foundation of what some call "discernment ministries?"

Just thoughts here.

Anonymous said...

Anon you must be hearing things because Prasch always points Brian MacLaren out as an Emergent wolf.

Lisa Ruby (or anon who commented Feb 6 at 8:30 PM)- I have not viewed that link you posted yet, am on my phone, but I will. Am curious on your experiances with that forum. Is there anyway to get in touch with you besides here?

Jeff

Bible Believer said...

I always thought Prasch did expose McLaren, of course exposing McLaren is like exposing the Dalai Lama for not being a Christian. McLaren to me is basically a UU with a few more external uses of Christian words.

Anonymous said...

I've had a few run-ins with Jacob Prasch myself.

He's an incredibly immature and angry man who can only see things in black and white - you're either good or bad.

If you're on his good list you can do no wrong and he'll defend you to the death. If you get on to his bad books, expect to be attacked periodically, as I found out to my detriment. And he can't be reasoned with.

Prasch's behavior would not be tolerated by any church that takes the Bible seriously. He has a small audience and a loud mouth.

I also have big problems with Calvary Chapel. Chuck Smith was an authoritarian and unaccountable leader who practised nepotism by appointing his extended family to leadership positions. There's nothing defensible either.

shortpolock said...

This site is lying to people,

and being used to keep good teaching away from ears obviously wanting sound doctrine.

Things Jacob Prasch regularly calls out:

Lausanne
Billy AND Franklin Graham

He says Billy Graham should have quit preaching decades ago.

The Catholic Church
Jerry Boykin
Knights of Malta

Conspiracy theories

etc.,
etc.,
etc.

Do better research than surfing youtube. Read.

moriel.org

search any term you want. He's probably spoken out on it.

Bible Believer said...

Funny. I read Moriel.org all the time.

I heard the man on a video conference praise billy graham. So what if he is like the closet Jesuits who may comment on some errors in Roman Catholicism?

Hey plenty of these false teachers warn about a few things that are true.

I've read Moriel plenty of times...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/search?q=moriel

I am curious, the exposure of Calvary Chapel now is WEBWIDE on multiple blogs, where the ties to Catholicism of the big-whigs is now a given.

Is Prasch warning about that?

ColinSaxton said...

It is not where you worship but how you worship. You can be a servant anywhere. Do you polish the shoes of the pope everyday as your job - then do it with the Love of Christ - Daniel did when he served the pagan king in Babylon. Do you worship in a small house group and just help your community in simple ways - then do it with the Love of Christ. Naaman when he was born again still helped his king into a pagan temple - not because he believed in the pagan god of his king but because he was a captain to the king (read 2kings5) and let us remember that all kings are put in power by God! Serve wherever God has put you with the Love of Christ - that is all the law and the prophets. That is what Christ teaches. I am not teaching you to follow false religion. You can polish the popes shoes and reject the catholic mass - Daniel and his friends would not bow down to the statue in the book of Daniel. You cannot be part of Islam and say you believe in Christ but you can and must love all those who are Muslims because they are made in the image of God (James 3) - as Christians we will stumble through trying to do this. But let as strive to do it.

Read the following (read it do pass over it...you know that we do this sometimes...but read this!)

[Pro 15:1, 18 KJV] 1 A soft answer turns away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. ... 18 A wrathful man stirs up strife: but [he that is] slow to anger appeases strife.

[Pro 16:32 KJV] 32 [He that is] slow to anger [is] better than the mighty; and he that rules his spirit than he that takes a city.

[Pro 19:11 KJV] 11 The discretion of a man defers his anger; and [it is] his glory to pass over a transgression.

[Pro 27:4 KJV] 4 Wrath [is] cruel, and anger [is] outrageous; but who [is] able to stand before envy?

[Ecc 7:9 KJV] 9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger rests in the bosom of fools.

[Jas 3:16-18 KJV] 16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Believe me - it is a trick of the devil to get us to spend countless hours pulling people down. Christ taught that the heart of man is evil - we know and can see false teachers all around us today but just mark who it is and if the Spirit leads you to pray for them then do so and while you are at it pray for yourself and make sure that we ourselves are not actually being false...let us not be Pharisees who think that God has not made us "like them" - the ones who point the finger and yet forget the beam in their own eye are blind. We are all made like one another and all have a wicked heart to fall into evil when tempted by our own lusts...just point the finger long enough at others and God will show you your wicked heart soon enough.

Read Zechariah 7 and Isaiah 58 - we need to get back to the simple loving of others and the preaching of forgiveness of sins through the blood of Christ and the repentance towards God through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Let us bless and not curse and leave false teaches alone...all of us must answer to God. Let each of us do His will.

Bible Believer said...

I agree one is to treat all humans with dignity and respect and love them while preaching the gospel to them but to united with ecumenical systems and churches you know are part of a false network is something else. We all have to be in this world, I get that piece and yes a Christian may have to work for a non-Christian boss [though I wouldn't take this so far as you in saying it's okay to polish the Pope's shoes] but you don't remain united with false churches or churches in with Babylon. This reminds me when I think it was someone who told me Hal Lindsey was making excuses for being part of TBN and that he said he'd preach from the doorways of hell if he had to. The lines of compromise are to be guarded against. Sure everyone can fall into evil but there are a lot of evil-doers out there telling Christians to shut down all God-given discernment.