Tuesday, January 21, 2014

Why is Calvinism Getting So Popular Among Baptists and Evangelicals?

                                                       [picture cite]--interesting hand gesture.

Evangelicals Find Themselves in the Midst of a Calvinist Revival

"Evangelicalism is in the midst of a Calvinist revival. Increasing numbers of preachers and professors teach the views of the 16th-century French reformer. Mark Driscoll, John Piper and Tim Keller — megachurch preachers and important evangelical authors — are all Calvinist. Attendance at Calvin-influenced worship conferences and churches is up, particularly among worshipers in their 20s and 30s.
In the Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest Protestant denomination, the rise of Calvinism has provoked discord. In a 2012 poll of 1,066 Southern Baptist pastors conducted by LifeWay Research, a nonprofit group associated with the Southern Baptist Convention, 30 percent considered their churches Calvinist — while twice as many were concerned “about the impact of Calvinism.”

Calvinism is a theological orientation, not a denomination or organization. The Puritans were Calvinist. Presbyterians descend from Scottish Calvinists. Many early Baptists were Calvinist. But in the 19th century, Protestantism moved toward the non-Calvinist belief that humans must consent to their own salvation — an optimistic, quintessentially American belief. In the United States today, one large denomination, the Presbyterian Church in America, is unapologetically Calvinist."

Calvinism to be blunt is just another ROAD TO ROME. I believe Calvinism to be a daughter of Rome and that includes the deceiver Calvin himself. Here is an earlier article of mine:

Why I am not a Calvinist

Calvinism is spreading out there. James White is one, as well as those Pyromaniac guys with their funny Emergent posters. While some of these folks such as the White Horse Inn  people reject ecumenism, most seem to ignore the fact that most followers of Calvin are marching after Rome Just about every Reformed and Presbyterian church is on the WCC and other lists. Calvin held to early Catholic church councils and some of the traditions such as burning people at the stake just like the Pope.

One odd thing to me, is I know enough about Anabaptist history to know Calvinists burned them at the stake too. So why does one have to even watch out in IFB churches today for pastors going Calvinist and embracing all of it's teachings? Do these folks realize the OTHER things that Calvin taught?

Calvinists often are proud of being strong when it comes to doctrine but why don't they realize Calvin's VERY CATHOLIC like beliefs?

I'm going to strip this down:

Calvin believed in ORIGINAL SIN [original sin is a false doctrine pushed by Rome too]

Calvin believed AUGUSTINE was a true teacher.

"Sometimes Calvinism is referred to by other names such as "Augustinianism" because Calvin followed Augustine (A.D. 354–430) in many areas of predestination and the sovereignty of God." [cite]
Calvin clung to the early church fathers too. [he admits some errors] What of the scripture here to call no man father?

From the book: 

"Getting the Reformation Wrong: Correcting Some Misunderstandings"

Calvin ordered people BURNED AT THE STAKE

"On 17 June, Michel de Villeneuve was convicted of heresy, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by John Calvin, preacher in Geneva"[24] and sentenced to be burned with his books. An effigy and his books were burned in his absence.
Meaning to flee to Italy, Servetus inexplicably stopped in Geneva, where Calvin and his Reformers had denounced him. On 13 August, he attended a sermon by Calvin at Geneva. He was arrested after the service[25] and again imprisoned. All his property was confiscated. Servetus claimed during this judgement he was arrested at an inn at Geneva. French Inquisitors asked that Servetus be extradited to them for execution. Calvin wanted to show himself as firm in defense of Christian orthodoxy as his usual opponents. "He was forced to push the condemnation of Servetus with all the means at his command"
Servetus wasn't the only one, 58 were put to death. Ever wonder why the Puritans as inheritors of Calvin's deceptions got so busy burning people at the stake? These people were all children of Rome via that alone!

Calvin believed in the EUCHARIST, not in Transubstantiation like the Catholics or the Lutheran view, but one that wasn't very far off the ranch and still held to "mysteries".

"Calvin approached the subject with a strong sense of the mystery of the vital union of Christ with the believer, which is celebrated in the eucharist. "I exhort my readers," he says, in the last edition of his Institutes, "to rise much higher than I am able to conduct them; for as to myself, whenever I handle this subject, after having endeavored to say everything, I am conscious of having said but very little in comparison with its excellence. And though the conceptions of the mind can far exceed the expressions of the tongue; yet, with the magnitude of the subject, the mind itself is oppressed and overwhelmed. Nothing remains for me, therefore, but to break forth in admiration of that mystery, which the mind is unable clearly to understand, or the tongue to express."865"

"He agreed with Zwingli in the figurative interpretation of the words of institution, which is now approved by the best Protestant exegetes, and rejected the idea of a corporal presence and oral participation in the way of transubstantiation or consubstantiation, which implies either a miracle or an omnipresence of the body of Christ. But he was not satisfied with a purely commemorative or symbolical theory, and laid the chief stress on the positive side of an actual communion with the ever-living Christ.

He expressed in private letters the opinion that Zwingli had been so much absorbed with overturning the superstition of a carnal presence that he denied or obscured the true efficacy of the sacrament.866866  

   "He acknowledged the mystery of the real presence and real participation, but understood them spiritually and dynamically"
Remember when I wrote the Daughter Protestant articles? These articles apply. Many see the REFORMATION as wholly biblical but it was not. While YES SOME TRUTHS were in it such as "Sola Scripture" and people rebelled against Rome's lies, much of what was Romanist to begin was KEPT INTACT. Some may say, "What on earth do you mean?" You are no academic, no intellectual" but again let's strip that down there too.

The DAUGHTERS all hold to the SACRAMENTS and TRADITIONS of ROME. Sure some may be removed such as transubstantiation or watered down, but just remember that fact. Calvin for all his truths such as SOLA SCRIPTURE definitely DID.  Calvinism is a different version of the RCC to fool the masses. Another avenue that is a another false gospel.

The Daughters: Protestant Churches #3: False Sacraments, Rituals and Rites

So when one finds out that Calvin supported INFANT BAPTISM too, What does that tell you?

The arguments whether people "choose" to be saved [free will] or whether they are elected [chosen by God] I consider round about useless sort of stuff. This may confuse a few, but I believe "both are true" in a sense. God can call a person but they can choose not to obey. This idea that God made millions of humans to go die in hell knowing this from the start is ludicrous. The Calvinist view of god is tyrannical. The Catholic "god" sends people to burn in Purgatory and the Calvin "god" brings people to earth to be born with hell as their final destination from the start!

                                    [picture cite]

I get the feeling the Calvinist pastors like selling the idea of each of their congregations being the "chosen" people while all the "rotten" people outside the door were "predestined" to hell. Human pride seems to love this sort of thing.

When I was newly saved, I encountered Calvinists on line. I barely knew what it was at the time. Some of them could quote the Bible like crazy and snip it into a million pieces. They seemed like very intellectual folks but in one odd sense they reminded me of very dry Unitarian academics. They could make anything interesting sound boring. My biggest point about Calvinism was "WHERE IS THE LOVE?" There definitely was the same focus on the straining of gnats and religious systems as in Catholicism. I was NEVER tempted to enter a Reformed or Presbyterian or Calvin derived church when newly saved.

Why is Calvinism getting so popular out there to the baptist and evangelical crowd? Here's my musings on the subject.

1. The false pastors love it, they slice and dice the Bible and can do endless intellectual forays with the Bible and literally confuse people. Unless one is taking real time, prayer and study with the Lord, Calvinism can fool EASILY. It sounds so "smart", it uses "big words". Many Christians want to focus on doctrine and "get things right" before God. This is good the Bible tells us that doctrine is important, but Calvinism subverts this and uses it to steer people wrong. Remember what I have said about the Jesuits and Rome and how they fool people with their Latin and other casuistry.

2. Calvinism serves as a false path and ditch that contradicts and provides an alternative to the dumbed down seeker sensitive churches and churches that focus on emotionality. Satan knows that more intellectual and quiet personalities are not going to get into the rolling around Charismatic nonsense seeking new experiences or simple repetitive "unchurched" lessons in  your average megachurch. It is another side of the coin. It provides bait for those who love to study and want to be "experts" but lack the Holy Spirit for the truth. This verse would apply:

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

3. The increasing Dominionism in the churches blends with Calvinism quite easily. Calvin retained the Dominionism of Rome. Calvin definitely wanted church and state married. He promoted church and state marriage in Geneva. Why wouldn't this translate today to advance Calvinism when many would love to turn American into a theocracy following the Geneva model when Calvin wanted to turn Geneva into a "kingdom of God"? Calvin set himself up as dictator basically and even had a "secret police" that punished citizens for a variety of infractions. Servetus was not the only one put to death.

4. Calvinism and the Covenant Theology and the churches you see having their members sign covenants all goes together. These are Religious systems of control that are loved by false pastors too. This is the path where all the false traditions and love of the early wolves aka "church fathers" leads, back to "clergy".

These are the main things influencing the path to Calvinism out there.

Obviously among those ignorant of the devices of Rome and who are being led by the nose back to Catholic traditions and beliefs, thinking wrongly the Reformation wiped all that away, Calvinism will be growing more popular. They have Calvinism for the intellectuals and the Emergent movement for the more emotionally inclined with the Baptist churches. Calvinism is even going into fundamentalist churches, and often these are the type of churches joining with the Patriarchy and Quiverful movements though obviously not all churches of that ilk are Calvinist. 

Did you all know the Southern Baptist Convention issued a "Let's All Get Along Paper"-[my title for it] regarding the infusion of Calvinism in their churches?

"We affirm that Southern Baptists stand together in a commitment to cooperate in Great Commission ministries," the report says. "We affirm that, from the very beginning of our denominational life, Calvinists and non-Calvinists have cooperated together. We affirm that these differences should not threaten our eager cooperation in Great Commission ministries.
Calvinism is FALSE and one more way these churches are FALLING AWAY!


Within His Word said...

GREAT ARTICLE. Very needed. This is a very needed topic. Because it is not going away.

Calvinism is a false gospel that leads to hell, because, calvinism says that you must "persevere in good works" to prove that you are part of the "elect".

That is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a free gift, by faith in Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, and rose again.

But calvinism won't accept that. No, you have to "persevere in good works", which is totally undefinable. So undefinable that John Piper once said that you will only find out if you are saved, after you die.

Well it's too late by then!!

So Piper's statement leads to eternal torment in the lake of fire.

Calvinism is "reformed catholicism". It's even called the "reformed faith". Reformed, what? Catholicism. Calvin was a catholic man, that made a few adjustments, changed the window dressing, painted the walls a few different colors, but kept many of the same doctrines right in place. Calvin once said that he could just give you catholic Augustine to read, and Calvin wouldn't have to say anything at all!

So why is it gaining in popularity?

For the same reason that catholicism has always been popular:


Man wants to work for salvation. Calvin lets them do so.

But Jesus Christ won't let them.

FaithGuy3 said...

Calvinism has been used by pastors so that they can get control of their pews.

Throughout my lifetime attending these Babel church buildings, pretty much we were lead to believe that these "pastors" are appointed by God b/c they are (supposedly)true men of God, so we can't judge, criticize, etc them.

And to boot - even more heresy and leaven have come out of this b/c the pews are made to believe lies like how we can't sin much, we can't even think bad thoughts b/c our hearts has to be pure, we have to follow the 10 commandments, if we can't focus on the pastor's sermon it somehow means we're letting the devil distract us and our heart's not with the Lord, we have to vote Republican or else we're baby-killers and sodomite-sympathizers, etc, etc.

Ultimately, just SO much bondage. And these pastors are just setting poor examples by acting self-righteously and arrogant(no wonder why when these children grow up, then end up falling away).

As for that our hearts *has to be pure* and we can't sin much? Well, Paul says differently...

Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Anonymous said...

If Calvinism were true then there would be no need for soul winning.

"Irresitible Grace" in Calvinism means that a person cannot resist salvation from God and that if God calls you as the elect then you will eventually become saved.

So then why bother soul winning if it is inevitable that the elect will be saved no matter what?

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Within His Word. I am seeing Calvinism grow more popular out there too definitely. Yes the "work" based stuff is same as Catholicism. Real Christian works are fruits of salvation they don't earn it. Most Calvinist churches you will see that "work" your way to heaven stuff too. That steered me away as an ex-Catholic.

I agree salvation is a free gift via Jesus Christ.

Wow John Piper said that? Catholic leaders repeat that all the time too, that you will only know when you die. One is supposed to live in "unsurety" appeasing a false "god". By the way all of the harlots are centered around the Eucharist and various degrees of it, I need to post on that some time too.

LOL about mentioning the use of the word REFORMED...

Reformed WHAT?

Yes Catholicism

Just another rewritten version to fool people.

One could apply that to the Reformation as a whole. As I wrote on one of the Daughter Protestant articles, and I think this was one of the most controversial articles I've ever written PROTESTANT is a name defined by Rome too, the PROTESTERS, the bad "children" who really remain under the tutelage of Momma Rome.


Calvin was another ex-priest.

You described it quite well Within His Word!

Bible Believer said...

Yes these false pastors elevate themselves as much as any Catholic clergy. You are right about all the bondage too. I see Calvinism definitely as a conduit to for grown children to reject what they think is Christianity.

I wonder what the ex IFB pastor who is now an atheist would think if I was to say to him that his forays into Calvinism led him right out the door into disbelief?


One thing being raised in a church system and infused into the fundamentalist Christian culture does not mean that one ever really became "born again".

This ties into the Dominionism too, being a "Christian" defined via the typical culture warrior nonsense, and endless rules and obeying men instead of a relationship with Jesus Christ.

Away from the church system one sees how much busy work, nonsense, and how deep the deceptions go. And no I am not saying I am a "super" Christian or perfect but so much of it is a false set-up.

I've known people who have grown up in Reformed churches, I tend to think the ex-Reformed rate is up there with the ex-Catholic one.

Thanks for the verses from Romans.

Reformed and Calvin-derived churches do not go soul-winning. They aren't passing out the tracts. If anything they are as "family" "chosen elect" focused as much as the Catholics--"born into the church" so to speak. If any go street preaching or witnessing, it's rare. I suppose they figure the "elect" are already spoken for. Then you have the whole infant baptism thing going too to add to it all.

It's weird how he uses OT circumcision rules to defend infant baptism.

Romans 2:25-29

King James Version (KJV)

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

FaithGuy3 said...

Rick Warren(who is close with Piper) also preaches a works-based Calvanistic gospel, as was evidenced in his "Purpose Driven Life". In it, he said how we're saved when we follow Christ *completely*(and John MacArthur said something similar too).

And I was a long-time listener of Chris Pinto(until last year) - even though he claims to believe in faith alone in Christ alone, nonetheless promotes a lot of these Reformers, INCLUDING Calvin quite heavily. It just sounded very weird b/c for someone like Pinto who claimed to believe in faith alone in Christ alone, why does he support John Calvin quite a bit? He also supports Augustine too.

Pretty much 99% of these church buildings preach Calvanism - look at all of the work, and even "slave labour" the leadership makes them do - these "bake sales", making parties and other activities for the youth groups, telling them they have to be there for the 6pm services, driving people around town so they can do their "ministries" to others, telling them have have to be water baptized in order to be church members(FYI, 501c3 churches get special tax breaks for doing water baptisms), having them sing hymn after hymn after hymn without much breaks, giving a sermon LECTURE and expects the pews to focus completely on it, promoting Sunday School, getting the adults to work all week in these "vacation bible schools", etc.

Ultimately, look how worn out the pews are in this very system b/c they've been deceived into believing you have to work, work, and work.

FaithGuy3 said...

2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


AFTER knowledge - look at all the words that are listed in this passage - doesn't say anything about "works", does it?

KJVmom said...

AAUGGH! Calvinism! Would you believe that long before I became a Bible believing, born again Christian I could not accept Calvinism? It just didn't seem right even then, and I had little Bible knowledge. Yet I'm not surprised at this development as the church slips further into apostasy. We need to be prayer warriors and speak the truth. I'm thankful to the Lord that the elders in my fellowship are required to preach against Calvinism. Yet I pray as there more use of modern versions, Calvinism won't make inroads. And did you know that the Puritans used the Geneva Bible with its Calvinistic notes- the KJV got rid of them! Anyone who thinks the KJV has a Calvinstic slant to it is very mistaken.
Keep up the good work, Bible Believer; I enjoy your blog so much.

FaithGuy3 said...

"And did you know that the Puritans used the Geneva Bible with its Calvinistic notes- the KJV got rid of them! Anyone who thinks the KJV has a Calvinstic slant to it is very mistaken."

Not to pick on Chris Pinto again, but he's a staunch supporter of the Geneva bible too.

Had no idea the Puritans were also Calvanistic and slid into Apostasy too.

Anonymous said...

Calvinism is a false theology, as it teaches humans have no free will and is easily proven wrong by Ephesians 4:30. If it were true we would be no more than automatons and there would be no true love. I especially liked your 2nd point that Calvinism is the other side of the coin compared to emotionality. - Don

Anonymous said...

Just the word "Driven",in "purpose driven",say's it all!Think about people you know ,who are "driven",in life?Driven by what?

Anonymous said...

"Ultimately, look how worn out the pews are in this very system b/c they've been deceived into believing you have to work, work, and work."

In one sense you do have to work at being a good christian. Not for salvation but to become a better christian. Sure you can rest on salvation, but then you won't have many treasures in heaven.

2 Timothy 4:7-8 "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

People forget that works are important in christianity. They are just not a part of salvation.

Anonymous said...

"AFTER knowledge - look at all the words that are listed in this passage - doesn't say anything about "works", does it?"

The bible does talk about works tho. Just not for salvation. But christians should have good works.

Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Titus 3:8 "This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."

Anonymous said...

"The bible does talk about works tho. Just not for salvation. But christians should have good works"

Just not for salvation. Yes to other reasons. No to salvation.

Calvinism ties it into salvation, and that is the point that we are making here, that is the false gospel that cannot save.

Bible Believer said...

I always thought Rick Warren with his purpose driven stuff was pushing the catholic idea of a vocation, over and over. Remember the rcc pushes lay vocations for the non-clergy and nuns. All the focus is on this life and endless works. I agree works do not saved. Good works are a fruit of salvation, not the other way around.

Pinto supports John Calvin, I didn't know that, that is quite odd.

This seems to be a very odd response to a commenter on his blog asking about masonic language used by John Calvin...


I have a litmus test for any religious teacher, if they support early church fathers or Augustine especially, I'm done.

A lot of churches yes do pile on the busy work, they have too many running about thinking doing doing doing proves their holiness.
God will lead the saved Christian to good works--fruit of salvation, to spend time on ministries etc, but what I see in the churches is they seem to be running in circles, some neglect their own families.

I am glad anon you rejected Calvinism too and your elders preach against it as well. Thanks for your compliments.

I used to have a friend online suggest a Geneva bible in my early days of being born again but I never felt it was RIGHT. I am glad the Holy Spirit warned me as I knew so little about Calvin then. Sounds like the Puritans using it were led astray.

So Pinto pushes the Geneva bible too? Interesting.

I agree Calvinism presents humans as automatons with no free will.

David Brainerd said...

"Why is Calvinism Getting So Popular Among Baptists and Evangelicals?"

Because it allows for libertinism. They want to sleep around, so they become Calvinists. Its that simple. Calvinism asserts that we are born "totally depraved" and as bad as that is, it gets worse, because Calvinism asserts that NOTHING CHANGES when you "get saved" other than your forensic status. That is, you stay "totally depraved." So, in the end, what Calvinism is saying is: the gospel doesn't change you at all and isn't supposed to. Calvinism is nothing but the denial of the fact that the gospel, when truly believed, brings about a moral change for the better in the believer. All the rest of their nonsense and insanity, including their predestinarian scheme, is nothing but a means to arrive at the goal: the denial that the gospel changes anything inside you.

Bible Believer said...

Interesting point David B.. You know I wonder about that too, since they see human beings as total depraved, and teach original sin [which is against what Jesus taught--I need to do an article about that if I haven't] they probably think in for a penny, in for a pound and go all out. Calvinism leaves one in the same place a Catholic is left in, left in bondage to sin. Yes Christians do sin, but one should have signs of being a "new man". I have noticed they do not stress salvation changing you either. Makes sense, how many Calvinists you see out there street preaching or preaching to the lost? That's how the "elect" stuff plays in, if everyone who will be a "Christian" are already chosen and "elected" by God, why go preach the gospel to any lost people?

Anonymous said...

"David Brainerd" is one of those guys that rejects the truth that Paul was an apostle, he rejects all of the letters from the Lord written through Paul, and so beware of him. He's in a hellbound cult. I have to say that bluntly, to warn those that are of the truth.

David Brainerd said...

"'David Brainerd' is one of those guys that rejects the truth that Paul was an apostle"

Prove it. I didn't say that. You misinterpreted me as you do Paul. My position is that Paul is a problem and should be taken with a grain of salt, not because he is not an apostle or uninspired, but because we illiterate modernists are too stupid to properly understand him. Even Peter couldn't understand half of what Paul wrote, and you're the expert?

Bible Believer said...

How can you throw out half the NT and not see that as a problem?

If Paul's a problem then you are not trusting in God's Word whatsoever.

Notice what I wrote about the UUs and what they said about Paul in this article.


Anonymous said...

"My position is that Paul is a problem and should be taken with a grain of salt"

You proved my point for me. You reject the Words of Jesus Christ through Paul the apostle, so you are rejecting most of the New Testament that Jesus wrote. You are in a cult, sorry to say, but it is true.

David Brainerd said...

Since when are take with a grain of salt and reject outright the same?

Anonymous said...

"Since when are take with a grain of salt and reject outright the same?"

Because taking something with a grain of salt is dismissive, it denigrates Scripture, making it as if it isn't ULTIMATE authoritative. Because, that is what it is.

David Brainerd said...

So, when it comes to passages saying things like "And those [slaves] that have believing masters, let them not despise them due to them brethren;" (1 Timothy 6:2) or, in other words, "You have no right to judge another Christian for being a slave-owner."

Now I know you take that with a gain of salt no matter what you say!!!! The difference between me and you is I admit it openly, and you're a liar.

Bible Believer said...

Talk about twisting scripture. WOW!

What translation are you using?

Why do you translate MASTER to SLAVE-OWNER automatically?

That can mean employer, boss, etc.

for 6:1


Maybe you should start by getting yourself a non-Vaticanus derived Bible so you can learn what God's Word actually says.

David, I believe you are in a cult too.

Why even claim you are a Christian if you are tossing the majority of the NT in the trash?

Anonymous said...

"Now I know you take that with a gain of salt no matter what you say!!!! The difference between me and you is I admit it openly, and you're a liar."

Bible Believer correctly pointed out that it doesn't say slaves. It says servants.

You are in a cult, you've been identified on other boards as being in a cult, as soon as I saw your name, I knew it was you, the one that denies Paul and hates the Word of God through Paul, and that is why I had to expose you here and warn others that you came to spread your satanic leaven.

David Brainerd said...

Why would you despise an employer for being a brother? Context is key. Its obviously about slaves. And "master" does always come in the context of slavery. It makes perfect sense to despise slave-master who is a fellow believer but continues to treat you as property, and this alone makes sense; to despise an employer for being a fellow Christian makes no sense. Its called logic. Go and learn it. And I looked at various translations, primarily the KJV, but also the NRSV and ESV.

David Brainerd said...

"Bible Believer correctly pointed out that it doesn't say slaves. It says servants."

The KJV never says slaves because that's a modern word. Well, that's an overstatement, because "slave" occurs twice, Jeremiah 2:14 and Revelation 18:13. In all other cases where we would say "slave" the KJV says "servant." Anyone who knows English at all knows this. You are in a cult that butchers the English language.

Anonymous said...

"to despise an employer for being a fellow Christian makes no sense"

That happens all the time. You're just plain wrong, or you've never worked a job in your life and you're ignorant of this.

"Its called logic"

You don't know logic. If you did, then you wouldn't reject parts of the Bible, and diminish them. You are a dangerous person, that is why I pointed you out when I saw your name.

Anonymous said...

Very good post however.

Please join Christianforums.com/f83. Here several calvinist spread the false word to many. Please help us counter this ith the good news of the true gospel.

Your help is badly needed. Please join us.

Fight the good fight for Jesus.

Bible Believer said...

You can post a link to my article on there. I don't know if I have time for any message boards but be careful of throwing pearls to swine, tell the truth once or twice and if there is no openness to it, leave them the dust of your sandals. Maybe Ill come along and throw a few links up but you do know I'll probably be banned pretty fast. :)

Anonymous said...

A stimulating essay. May I make a suggestion? Read Calvin the preacher. Leave 'Calvinism' as a system to one side for the moment. Study in a prayerful way his New Testament Commentaries. Begin with Calvin's exposition of The Gospel According to St. John (Eerdmans/Paternoster Press, 2 volumes, translated by THL Parker). In Volume l Chapter 8 Calvin warns of 'the departure of Christ' from the lives of unregenerate sinners and the pagan society in which sinners dwell. Very relevant for our post-Christian culture. Turn also to six essays on Calvin, 'With Calvin in the Theater of God' edited by John Piper and David Mathis, Crossway 2010. Calvin lives in these pages as a giant of the Reformation and as a humble, pain-wracked preacher of the Word. Here is Calvin the tender father who stayed at home one day in the hope of seeing his baby son smile before dying in infancy. Here is the self-effacing Calvin who insisted on being buried in an unmarked grave. Iain H Murray clears up much of the confusion that surrounds Calvin's theology in his essential book 'Spurgeon v. Hyper-Calvinism: The Battle for Gospel Preaching', Banner of Truth 2002. WJ Grier's short 'Life of John Calvin' (2012) also from the Banner of Truth imprint is well worth a look. Mr Grier was a minister in the Presbyterian Church of Ireland and studied at Princeton Seminary. Remember, Calvin forbade his admirers from using the term 'Calvinist'. Bear this in mind in turning to 'The Five Points of Calvinism' by Steele, Thomas and Quinn (P and R Publishing). Try and hunt down a short address by Karl Barth, Thoughts on the 400th Anniversary of Calvin's Death (from 'Fragments Grave and Gay, Barth, Fontana Library 1971). Barth, who attended an open session of the Second Vatican Council, said he could have spent the rest of his life reading Jean Cauvin, latinized to John Calvin, the merchant's son from Picardy who saved the Reformation. Calvin said we are all bad actors on a broken stage. It is a truth which proud Rome needs to pray about. (Jack Haggerty)

Anonymous said...

Notice how the anonymous of February 20th, is pointing you to MEN, MEN, MEN, MEN, MEN, MEN, MEN, MEN, all calvinist men, no less.

He won't point you to ONLY THE BIBLE. No. Because if he did, then you would never accept the satanic lies of calivinism.

Bible Believer said...

that poster doesn't realize I even used to read James White's website and disagreed with it. I had the Lord show me the truth about Calvinism pretty early out. Ih was something I need to know especially as they do have their place on Christian message boards, blogs and elsewhere. Of course there will be legendary stories about Calvin's "kindness", even Nazi commandants after a day at the camp went home to kiss their wives and pet their dog. I know that may an extreme example but that's what I think of the praise of men.

I had my run ins with a reformed cult as a 20 something while a nonbeliever. Thank God I learned the true saving gospel, not the Calvinist one.

Bible Believer said...

I also want that poster to explain to me why most reformed churches are ecumenical with Rome? Why was Barth associated with Vatican II? Wrote about it not sure about direct attendance...

I have studied Vatican II so much to expose it, I've actually am familiar with the name.

Steve Finnell said...


Faith only advocates are very inconsistent when is comes to explaining the meaning of for the remission of sins that is found in the Scriptures.

Acts 2:38 The Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (NKJV)

Mark 1:4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (NKJV)

Matthew 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which shed for many for the remission of sins. (NKJV)

Faith only advocates proclaim that for in Acts 2:38 actually means because of. In other words the 3000 on the Day of Pentecost repented and were baptized in water because their sin had already been forgiven. Were they save by "faith only?"

Did John the Baptist baptized because those he baptized had already been forgiven? Did for mean because of? Were they saved the very minute they repented. Were they saved by "repentance only?"

Did Jesus shed His blood because the sins of men had already been forgiven? Did for mean because of? Are all men saved by the "the crucifixion of Jesus only?"

The same word, for, was used in Acts 2:38, Mark 1:4, and Matthew 26:28. The Greek word eis has not been translated as because of in Acts 2:38, Mark 1:4, or Matthew 26:28. There is not one single translation that translates eis as because of. Are all translations in error? Is God not powerful enough to have His word translated correctly?

Forgiveness of sins followed the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Forgiveness of sins followed those who were baptized by John the Baptist.

Forgiveness of sins, under the New Covenant, follows being baptized in water.


Men are saved because of God's grace. Ephesians 2:8.
Men are saved because of the shed blood of Jesus. Matt. 26:28.
Men are saved because of faith. John 3:16.
Men are saved because of their repentance. Acts 3:19.
Men are saved because of their confession. Romans 10:9.
Men are saved because of their immersion in water. Acts 2:38.


Anonymous said...

I am losing my family over calvanism - We went to a new church for about 4 weeks, then went to the membership class where "reformed" theology was slightly and lightly brought up. I asked what that meant and he ( the pastor ) told me it was a varied version of Calvanism.

My family plugged in, made friends and loved the worship and teaching.

I asked the pastor to coffee and he didn't want to break out a bible, he offered me a book by Spurgeon. None the less I told my wife I would not sit under this gospel as it is not the God I believe the bible teaches... Her and the kids are mad at me for being an extremest ...

Pray for me, this sucks.

Anonymous said...

Losing your family to calvinism. Praise God He is dealing with you

Max Haake said...

I would say this page is off base. The main objective of "Calvinism" is giving God all of the Glory for everything, including one's salvation.

The Bible never mentions or says a person must accept Christ, the Bible talks about receiving the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit allows us to believe and repent.

If a person is so prideful that they put themselves as the focal point of their conversion - i.e. "I accepted Jesus", That person is playing with fire. We need to set aside pride and Give all the glory where it is do, to Jesus. He died on the cross to forgive our sins. If we are not in bondage to sin, there is no need for a savior. We are in bondage to sin, the only hope for us is a savior, Jesus. Those of us who are followers of Christ, who believe in him and repent of our sins, give him all the glory. The efforts of man are not to be praised or celebrated, we must only boast in the Lord.

Someone please explain the book of Ephesians, if you don't believe in Predestination. And don't insult God by saying he saw the future and learned what happened. It is impossible for God to learn, he already knows everything, he is the creator of time and of the universe.