Wednesday, October 23, 2013

Pope Against "Ideological Christians"

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What's Pope Francis doing with his left hand? The one behind the mike. Is that a natural hand position?


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Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

"Speaking at daily Mass last Thursday, Pope Francis warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology.
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said, according to Radio Vatican. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.
“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements
“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people,” Francis added. “But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh?”
He said Christian ideology was the result of a lack of true prayer."

What is an ideological Christian? Someone that actually believes?

i·de·ol·o·gy

[ahy-dee-ol-uh-jee, id-ee-] 
noun, plural i·de·ol·o·gies.
1.
the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
2.
such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.
This seemed like just another way to condemn "fundamentalists" or bible-believing Christians.
That stuff about fear too is wrong. I don't mind if people fear hell. I in fact hope they do, and if this is what brings them to salvation more for the better!
Jude 1: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Pope Francis is pleasing the liberals...."this is why I left organized religion"

Do you see how he speaks in a deceiving manner pleasing all sides except the true Christian one?

68 comments:

FaithGuy3 said...

Hhhhmmm...a couple of years ago, there was an "influential evangelical" that made similar comments...

http://web.archive.org/web/20060116060443/http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/religion/13573441.htm
Jan. 08, 2006

Excerpt:

(Rick)Warren predicts that fundamentalism, of all varieties, will be "one of the big enemies of the 21st century."

"Muslim fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, secular fundamentalism - they're all motivated by fear. Fear of each other."

Anonymous said...

The pope hates the truth. Doctrine is simply informational truth. Informational truth like, do not jump off the top of a 29 story building. That is doctrine to avoid dying by falling.

Those that hate the truth, always knock doctrine, yet they themselves are still talking. Talking about anything, is DOCTRINE. In the case of the pope, it is false doctrine, but it is still a doctrine. For him to call people "rigid" is a doctrine, it is simply a false doctrine.

Someone brought up Rick Warren, and he is sickeningly a doer of this same false doctrine. He says, "people have too much Bible knowledge already", and yet he keeps holding Bible studies! Why does he not take his own advice and stop holding Bible studies?

But in reality of course, there is never enough Bible study. America is Biblically illiterate. A recent study said that 2 out of 3 "evangelicals" do not believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. But we know that Jesus is the only way to heaven. The doer of that stupid study, did not even poiny out the fact that 2/3 of his respondents are not actually Christians at all. But that kind of Biblical ignorance is due to false teachers like Rick Warren, and his love object, the pope.

Anonymous said...

More blah blah blah from the catholic church.

Maybe his hands were in that position because he was telling a fish story? "I once caught a fish this big".

He was just talking out of his you know what.

Anonymous said...

Altho, that hand gesture is a bit odd. Who goes around with their middle finger and their ring finger connected like that?

I tried it, and it seems you have to purposely do it. It does not feel natural.

Maybe he's a Star Trek fan?

Anonymous said...

By "Ideological Christians" the Pope means those that have read their bibles and believe the Gospel, plain and simple. - Don

Anonymous said...

The pope is too funny. If you believe and follow God's word you are an illness, but if you follow the pope's word and worship Mary, pray to saints and partake of sacraments - all man-made, man-centered things that are not in God's word - that's acceptable?
And I they continue to portray Jesus in a weak way. He says with our doctrine Jesus is not love, meekness, tenderness. But he is those things, and he has also come to bring a sword. Mathew 10:34-36
The pope says Christian ideology is rigid but look at the Catholic ideologies!! Prayer beads, hail Mary's, sacraments, saints, confession, transsubstantiation, kissing and bowing before statues, purgatory... None of which is in the bible.
I have to agree - the pope hates the truth.
So if you love the truth, it stands to reason he'd he'd say you are a serious illness.

Anonymous said...

"The pope is too funny. If you believe and follow God's word you are an illness"

What did you expect from a jesuit?

Anonymous said...

its Mork and Mindy's sign "nanu nanu" LOL..
seriously, though i agree, these "ruling" men, are so far into heavenly worship of Baal, everything they do is part of it, including their "hand signs". From the pope, to freemasons, Kay Arthur, David jeremiah and the eye of horus in his "church". We are dealing with the spirit of the anti messiah right now, they are worshiping a false god of the "heavenlies" and walking out his worship on earth.

FaithGuy3 said...

By any chance, have you heard John MacArthur, Brannon House, Jimmy DeYoung, and Chris Pinto saying recently how you can take the mark of the beast and still be saved?

Not to get sidetracked from this blog post discussion - but it seems like attacks on the word of God is really going into overtime now. Not only the Pope is saying things previous Popes didn't go that overboard over, but these internet "discernment" ministries are showing their true colors.

Bible Believer said...

Yes it matches Rick Warren exactly. Those "fundamentalists" [bible believers] are your enemies. Etc. Etc. The same message rehashed all over the place.

The Bible tells us how important doctrine is.

2 Timothy 4:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

I suppose we should expect the antichrist jesuit Pope to say the exact opposite.

He sounds just like a UU pastor to me too. "Deeds not creeds". "What you believe does not matter." Blah Blah. I don't think God expects everyone to be an expert Bible scholar when they die, [you need to be born again] but if you don't study, and don't care about the truth, then you are there for ripe picking by Satan. It's religious pluralism marketed under the babylon Catholic label.

Yes I would ask Rick Warren, why are you still having Bible studies?

Too many do not even know the basics of what is even in the Bible. They quote mantras and sayings from false preachers far more then they do the Bible. I find myself correcting people who say the Bible says one thing when it does not.
LOL about the fish story.

No one can make that hand sign by accident. By the way, that one is a very common one all over the place and repeated.
You can't do it by accident waving your hands around, I tried it too.


Yes by "ideological Christians" he means those that actually believe, not his daughter disciples who hang on his and all his Knight of Malta or freemasonic preacher's words.

Yes it's funny how Christians are called out as rigid. Catholicism is the most rigid religion there is. So many rules one can go swimming in them. The most rule-laden overloaded system in the world that would make even thousands of pages of Obamacare rules look like they make sense! Oh no you ate a hamburger on Friday during Lent, it's hell for you!

Faith Guy, can you send me links? That is something I'd like to do an article on. "FALSE PREACHERS PREPARING THEIR FLOCKS TO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST".

I bet I can find others besides Tim LaHaye and Chan his fictional character doing so.

Agree about the phony discernment ministries.

Anonymous said...

http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/john-macarthur-outrage-take-mark-of.html

MacArthur still has it on his website. He's a false teacher due to this, and his "lordship salvation" heresy, and his rejection of the importance of the blood of Jesus.

Bible Believer said...

Oh that's right Ephesians 5:11 wrote on that already. That's good, glad there is a warning. Those are definitely false teachers. Also watch out for ones who quibble about the mark of the beast trying to spiritualize it into nothing and then tell you oh it's okay to take the chip.

Marion said...

"Why is Rick Warren still doing Bible studies?"

Answer: So HE can give us all the "real" meaning of Scripture...of course...

The problem is that people are too busy to seek the answers to spiritual questions through prayer, study and waiting on God to open the Scriptures to them...over time and contines searching. How many do their ten minute "devotional"...and consider it "done"? Just WHERE does Scripture teach us to have devotions? My Bible says "STUDY to show yourselves approved"...and "meditate DAY AND NIGHT".

As a result...people then need "men" via books sermons, seminars, etc. to interpret (I mean spoon feed) the Word for them. Such neglect of the Word is a manifestation of the reality that one has not "received not the love of the truth."

Jesus commended not Martha for her busyness...but Mary...who attended to His word.

John warns,"These things have I written you concerning them that seduce you. But the annointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same annointing teaccheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in hin." (1 John 2:26-27)

news4themasses said...

FaithGuy3 said...
"By any chance, have you heard John MacArthur, Brannon House, Jimmy DeYoung, and Chris Pinto saying recently how you can take the mark of the beast and still be saved?"

This is doctrines of demons, it's a lie from the pit of hell. More Timothy LaHaye fruit. That comes straight out of his left behind series.

Revelation 14:9-12
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

I know this was off topic, but I had to reply.
Who are you going to believe Christian, Brannon Howse, Christian J. Pinto, DeYoung, MacArthur, or the WORD OF GOD?
#justsaying
God Bless

news4themasses said...

I was going to ask a dumb question:
Can a Jesuit be a Mason simultaneously? I thought history tells us that these two secret elite societies are opposed to one another, often fighting each other?
I'm not as well versed in Masonry and Jesuitism as some readers here.

Anonymous said...

This is indeed very disturbing.

What these men fail to realize is that, not everyone will take that mark, there will be non-Christians who will refuse as well (probably based on other reasons) however maybe some of those people will be the ones that are saved during the reign of the A.C.

I have always been a little on the fence with John M. however here he has clearly contradicted the bible. :-(

Lina

Anonymous said...

"He was just talking out of his you know what."
His Dagon fish hat perhaps?

Anonymous said...

To anon Oct 25, What did you expect from a jesuit?

Thanks. I wasn't thinking. You're absolutely correct. I just looked into the Jesuit oath and the Jesuits are to become all things to all people, to infiltrate and destroy true Christianity.

Made me think of the Whosoevers who say they are being all things to all people to reach others.

When being all things to all people is used to actually infiltrate from within and destroy.

It looks like the Pope is making a W. Maybe he's a Whosoever fan.

Anonymous said...

"Can a Jesuit be a Mason simultaneously? I thought history tells us that these two secret elite societies are opposed to one another, often fighting each other?"

Actually, "history" is written by liars. The fact is that the jesuit order controls freemasonry. The intent of freemasonry as controlled by jesuitism, is to infiltrate Bible-believing groups and twist them towards Rome. That's why so many SBC pastors are freemasons.

The line of "jesuitism is against freemasonry", is just a cover for the truth.

Mom2Boys said...

People need to be careful with this "lordship salvation" term and how they use it. I see this as an area that is going to lead people straight to hell.

No one is saved because of their works. No one can work their way into heaven. The Lord's people have the opportunity to choose salvation because of the blood of Jesus. It is through Christ that we can come to the Father.

HOWEVER- you still have to do what God says. Just because you BELIEVE in Jesus, that does not mean you will be saved. If you tell people that the ONLY thing they have to do is BELIEVE and they do not have to listen to God, then you are a liar.

1 John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

The problem comes when people tell you that you have to do things that God did not say. That is an issue. But most of the time when people say "lordship salvation"- that is not what they are talking about. It is someone getting angry because they mistakenly believe that they have the "freedom in Christ" to do whatever they want.

"Oh but Paul said we have liberty to do what we will....." What did JESUS say? What did JESUS say? What did JESUS say?

You better start paying more attention to that, and read Rev 2:1-3 while you are at it. Then go back and ask yourself, who did the Ephesians reject as a liar? Then go back to Deuteronomy 13:1-3. Do you think that God's words expire?

How come when you try to tell Christians that they shouldn't do certain things like Celebrate Halloween, Christmas, etc- they can always find a way to ignore many of the verses to support this, and find one author who says otherwise? When bible believers say they want to stay away from churches because they are heeding the numerous warnings about false prophets and apostasies....there's always that one person Christians go back to- that makes them ignore the big picture.

1 Corinthians 4:16
Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Wait...what? Who said that? Followers of YOU? Is this Jesus talking right here?

1 Timothy 2:7

Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity

...Who said you were lying? Why are you adding that in?

I can bring up many other examples to those who are sniffing the coffee I am serving, but I will leave it at that.

God said TEST EVERYTHING. What did Jesus say in Luke 12:1? Now read Acts 23:6.

Do you believe Jesus or Churchianity?

As a sidenote, think I am approving of any pastor or prophet because I am not. My comments are unrelated to that, and strictly related to the term that makes my skin itch. Stop rolling around in your "freedom in Christ" and start actually doing what the Lord says.

P.S. Don't believe anything I say either. PRAY to God. Open your Bibles. Pray again. And learn to listen to the Holy Spirit.

news4themasses said...

Thanks Anon,
I know the Jesuit oath states they can be all things to all ppl, I guess I didn't know that applied to other secret sects like the FM's. Agreed that history is written (rewritten) by liars. So we are then led to believe that they are opposed to one another but they are both one in the same, and in this case Jesuit trumps FM(?). I was sure I either read or watched a video that stated Jesuits hate FM and vice versa, but that is also like saying CFR and Tri-lateral Commission are against each other too, they are one in the same all serving the same luciferian cause. this can give a girl a headache. I try to deduce it to its most simplest terms: they're all evil; that's easy enough for me.

Loz said...

Well said Mom2Boys. Amen to that!

Anonymous said...

Momof2Boys denounced the lie of "lordship salvation", and then went and taught the lie of "lordship salvation". She used Scriptures that apply to growth and rewards (not salvation), and then applied them to salvation. She is wrong.

Jesus said to just believe in Him. He even used the bronze serpent to compare belief in Him for salvation. So she is totally wrong.

Scriptures must be rightly divided. There is salvation (John 3:16), and then there is growth in the Lord and rewards in heaven, those three categories, and they can't be mixed. Salvation is FREE. Growth and rewards have a cost.

Anonymous said...

news4themasses, yes, jesuits trump freemasons. And the "we're against each other" is indeed a cover.

Even from the spiritual standpoint, they're both in the same camp. Jesuits and freemasons both reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ, thus both belong to the kingdom of darkness.

Anonymous said...

Mom2Boys - I am getting the coffee you are serving..I have always questioned this?It answers a lot.
Also,I have always felt any freedom in Christ we have ,is freedom from sin..Not freedom to do as we please.

Bible Believer said...

I too see what Mom2boys is saying. A true fruit of salvation is a desire to serve God and obey Him. The easy believism crowd does let too many of the falsely converted believe they can just say a prayer and that then they can do whatever they want. A truly born again Christian will have that innate desire to obey God or and feel aggrieved over sin.

Anonymous said...

Mom2boys is not right. She is saying you have to be "good enough" to be saved. It is a denial of the Gospel and is basically catholic doctrine.

Bible Believer said...

The Jesuits and freemasons work together. I see the Pope as the true head of the Freemasonic world. Same symbols all over the place. When I was studying Trad Catholicism it's funny how they claimed the freemasons infiltrated the Vatican and claimed that's how everything went bad. The whole Vatican P2 thing...Well they are an integral part. It's phony baloney fake fights all over the place.

Freemasonic hand shakes for all...

http://freemasonry-watch.blogspot.com/2009/07/vatican-secretary-of-state-cardinal.html

http://freemasonry-watch.blogspot.com/search?q=vatican

Bible Believer said...

Salvation is free but the truly saved and born again desire to obey God.

Bible Believer said...

No one is good enough to be saved. You are right that is Catholic doctrine to depend on one's own goodness instead of the righteousness of Jesus Christ. However I took what she said to me that these false Christians are promoting a false gospel that excuses sin, instead of seeking after godliness via the Holy Spirit. Fruits of true salvation is the desire NOT to sin and to follow God.

Bible Believer said...

Jesuits I think can be masons at the same time. Of course on the official level, this is pooh-poohed but it's probably kind of like the masonic lodge member Southern Baptist preachers, condemned on one end but still accepted. Jesuits obviously promote Masonic beliefs via their religious pluralism.

Some are knowing Satanists, and members of the occult while many are dupes. Remember there are multiple degrees, the ones on top are going to know the most of course and who they really worship.

Bible Believer said...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81996001/The-Jesuit-Connection-to-Freemasonry-by-Troy

Mom2Boys said...

I am not Catholic. And if you are, I urge that you come out from that. As I said before, there is a difference between someone telling you to do WHAT GOD SAID TO DO and someone telling you to do things that God did NOT say to do.

Stop listening to your traditions, stop listening to your pastors, and start listening to what Jesus said.

Jesus did not say "just believe in me". Paul said that. Paul said “just believe and everything else is done away with”. That’s very nice but even Satan "believes" in Jesus.

James 2:19
....the devils also believe , and tremble

Furthermore, Paul wasn’t even with Jesus during his ministry. Oh, but Paul saw him in a vision right? What did Jesus say about people claiming to see him in deserts and hidden places? How many apostles are there? 12. How many seats for apostles in the book of Revelation -12. Who replaced Judas? Matthias. Who said Paul was an apostle-- Paul did, numerous times. 12 + 1= 13. Did Jesus forget a seat?

“Wait..but Peter said Paul was an apostle.” Did he? Is that what he said?

Did you read Rev 2:1-3? Did Paul not say he was rejected by the Ephesians? Is Jesus pleased with the Ephesians for testing and rejecting a false apostle? Who has caused more division between Bible Believing Christians and Cultural Christians? Christians who see the truth plain as day, but get caught up because of one person! “I know the Bible says this, but Paul said….”

Pick now who you will serve.

Jesus said:
... I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Has heaven and earth passed?

“But Paul said the law is nailed to the cross.”

Jesus said: …but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

“But Paul said it is an insult because Jesus died for us. So it is like spitting in the face of his sacrifice for us.”

Jesus said: If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Who is right? Jesus or Paul? If you actually need to consider before you answer, then you have a big problem.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who do you think he is talking to?

Jesus said: Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. (Luke 12:1)

Paul said: I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question. (Acts 23:6)

The Heavenly Father Said: Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. (Gen 49:27)

Paul said: For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (Romans 11:1)

By the way, what does the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares refer to? You might want to sniff that coffee for awhile. Jesus already warned you! Our Heavenly Father did too in Deuteronomy 13:1-3 but you think that the Old Testament is irrelevant so you might have missed that part.

This is not about being “right”. This is for those with ears to hear. I don’t care about being “right”. I weep for those that are lost.

Matthew 7: 13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT. (emphasis mine)

Mom2Boys said...

Mom2boys is not right. She is saying you have to be "good enough" to be saved. It is a denial of the Gospel and is basically catholic doctrine.
============
One more thing because my last comment was too long.

No one is "good enough to be saved". You can be saved because of the blood of Jesus. But you still have to do what He says. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Especially considering the numerous times that Jesus himself said it.

If the road is narrow and few will find it, do you really think it is that easy? All I have to do is believe and nothing else? I can ignore everything else said by a God who said He doesn't change (Malachi 3:6) because Paul (who wasn't part of Jesus' ministry) said so? I can ignore what Jesus himself said, because Paul gave me the liberty to do so?

Am I a servant of Paul or Jesus? Did Paul die on a cross from me? Can Paul put my soul in Hell?

Maybe that is what you believe. And
you can choose what you will, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

And Jesus said...
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43

Anonymous said...

Amen BB -If we abide in Christ and follow the Holy Spirit ;we will have more grace and power to conform to his will,and have the power not to live in sin.Isn't it about His will ,not what we want to freely do...Then we will have more joy,peace,longsuffering...

Anonymous said...

Too much to read, but here is the bottom line. All saved people are still sinners. Mom2boys is unsaved by her false gospel, since she demands some unmeasureable degree of sinlessness. She is just plain wrong.

Anonymous said...

None of the Scriptures Mom2boys used, are about salvation. That is why she is incorrect.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing wrong with Paul as his message ALWAYS pointed to Jesus Christ. I agree with BB, the word is DESIRE as none of us has it all together so that we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength 24/7. Otherwise why would God have to send His Son for us. This is not a excuse, just reality. The Christian life is one of DEPENDENCE. - Don

Anonymous said...

Whats is moms2boys talking about with regard to Paul?

"Jesus did not say "just believe in me". Paul said that. Paul said “just believe and everything else is done away with”. That’s very nice but even Satan "believes" in Jesus."

Paul's word and Jesus's word CANNOT contradict one another. Paul's word is inspired.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Therefore, Paul's words have equal standing with that of Jesus. Not because Paul is equal with Jesus, but because Paul's words come from God.

John 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.”

John 6:40, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Mark 1:15, “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”


Now here is Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

What is the will of the Father?

Well, John 6:40 answers that. Believe on Jesus.




Anonymous said...

mom2boys said "No one is "good enough to be saved". You can be saved because of the blood of Jesus. But you still have to do what He says"

That does sort of sound like Lordship Salvation. Do what God says or lose your salvation. Good works to KEEP your salvation.

A christian should avoid sin. A christian should do what God says. But, christians are still sinners. Plus, christians are at different levels depending on how they listen to the holy spirit.

Also, remember how horrible believers in the bible could act at times. Remember the corinthian church. Remember David and his sin. Remember Peter actually DENYING Jesus. Noah got drunk and did not know who his daughter was. Abraham passing his wife off as his sister. And a bunch of other believers doing bad things.

None of that excuses sin at all. Sin can have no excuse, that is why we need Jesus to save us. But, a true believer cannot lose their salvation. And you do not need good works to maintain it.

Mom2Boys said...

Mom2boys is unsaved by her false gospel, since she demands some unmeasureable degree of sinlessness. She is just plain wrong.
=========
Did you pray before you wrote that? Or was that a knee jerk reaction to the information that did not tickle your ears?

I said this in my first response, but not the second. You shouldn't listen to anyone but the Lord. You should pray, open your bible, and then respond.

What you feel doesn't matter. Just like what I feel doesn't matter. What matters is what the Lord said.

Who said anything about being sinless? Who is sinless but Jesus? If it bothers you that you have to do what Jesus says, then your issue is not with me.

If it bothers you that faith without works is dead, then take that up with the one who said it. If it makes you mad that "each tree is known by it's own fruit" then you are not mad at me. I didn't say it.

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates of the city". Rev 22:14

Go tell Jesus He is wrong...if you dare.
--------
" But, a true believer cannot lose their salvation. And you do not need good works to maintain it."
-----------
That's very dangerous. A believer can be deceived. And a true believer can take the mark of the beast. Are you saying that if a believer takes the mark of the beast; then that the part that says ANYONE who takes the beast goes to hell- doesn't apply?

What if I am a believer. But I get drunk every night, I'm into witchcraft, and I am somewhat promiscuous. I am a true believer but I was told I didn't have to repent so I don't. All I have to do is believe. Are you saying that I will be saved from the fire and I can enter the gates of heaven? Does that match Rev 22:14-15?

Jesus said "but he that endureth to the end shall be saved" not "he who says a prayer once in church shall be saved."

Who is telling the truth? Jesus or your pastor?

FINALLY, if you didn't read what I said about Paul, open your Bible to read all of the verses for yourself, sit and pray on it, and then read the verses again....then your comments are not necessary. I say that with humbleness and love. But I also say it with urgency.

Time is short. Choose who you will serve.

Anonymous said...

We cannot lose our salvation because we never found it. Christ found us and whom the Father has given Him, He will not lose.

Anonymous said...

First of all;the anon that called Mom2Boys unsaved needs to think about that one.Are we allowed to judge peoples salvation..Isn't that God's to judge.
She is searching the sciptures,and has some concerns..
I have read about the theory of paul being the false apostle;which I think she is getting at.I have questioned this myself ;but have also seen many of Pauls passages that do point to Jesus and leading us from sin.
I think what is really at the core of this is that so many people use grace as a license to sin...
A lot of churches don't even address that you cannot be in perpetual sin.We are called to be holy.
We also live in a culture where there are so many idols;television,sports,fashion,porn,etc...
There starts to be so much grace you can't even tell the difference between the church and the world.The pagan world.Yes we sin,but were not suppossed to be in
perpetual sin.If the holy spirit is not convicting you if you still have sin,and your not conforming to Christ with all your heart,then you should be questioning whether you are in the faith...
It's the fued;It's faith,"no it's grace",no it's works..It's all three..Believing,or having faith in Christ,means you believe what he says,and having faith that it is true,and you do as he says...
And if Mom2Boys is wrong shouldn't we be gentley correcting her not condeming her and deciding whether she is saved or not.

Anonymous said...

Before I came to Christ,I watched a lot of movies.I remember in the movie tombstone;wyatt erpp's brother was watching the cowboys destructive sinfulness hurt the women and children of the town..So he decides to become a Marshall,or whatever,again.Wyatt objects;and he say's to Wyatt"We've got to have some Law"He talks about the lawlessness of the community and how he can't stand by and watch all these people being destroyed by it..That always stuck with me..
I think a lot of people,myself included ,have been hurt by lot's of other peoples sinful behaviour.
It can be overwhelming..And if we are in the last days then lawlessness will increase;which it has..
My whole muddled point(sorry);is,don't abuse the doctrine of Grace..Are you living in sin and calling it Grace?

Anonymous said...

Oh ,and if anyone wants to say that sports has not turned into idolatry today;why do they have Modonna do the halftime.That ought to tell you something.And do you think Paul on his stop over to Greece,said,hey let's stop and watch the gladiators at the Arena...Or,how about porn ,not being adultery.Do you think the first christians when they met;would have been O.K. with you frequenting the prostitude temples.What's the difference.You buy the porn ,you watch the porn,you get pleasure from the porn.It's like paying the temple prostitude(dvd,magazine) to watch her(you have entered the temple at this point) and get SELF pleasure,all the while, your married ,but not calling it adultery.My good guess is the early Christians would have considered it both adultery and idolatry...Just sayin...

Anonymous said...

If Mom2Boys doesn't like to be judged, then she shouldn't judge in the first place as to the regard of who is or isn't saved. If a person says they believe in Jesus as their Savior, then they are saved (John 6:47). She was the one that jumped in and said it wasn't "good enough". So she is the judging one.

And as another correctly pointed out, she is teaching lordship salvation, which is a false gospel.

Anonymous said...

mom2boys said

"That's very dangerous. A believer can be deceived. And a true believer can take the mark of the beast. Are you saying that if a believer takes the mark of the beast; then that the part that says ANYONE who takes the beast goes to hell- doesn't apply?"

Well, I would say that a true believer most likely would not take the mark. I would assume that the unsaved would be more likely to take the mark since they do not know any better. But, then again, I believe in the rapture. Not everyone does.

But, I do believe in eternal security.

Romans 8:38-39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

John 10:28-29 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."


"Jesus said "but he that endureth to the end shall be saved" not "he who says a prayer once in church shall be saved."

You have to put that in context. Jesus was not talking about Salvation.

Matthew 24:7-13 is talking about the future tribulation. The endurance of the flesh as stated in Matthew 24:22. The end means the end of the tribulation. And saved means physically saved, not spirtually.

Salvation is not an on going process.

And, I have to add, if people deny Paul, then they are denying the bible as per 2 Timothy 3:16.

I would also note Psalms 12:6-7.

I trust the KJV as the perfectly preserved word of God. This includes Paul's writings.






Steve said...

The Roman religion has never been and never will be Christian.

From Constantine until today, each generation of papist has been at war with both Christ and Christians. Determined to end us all forever. Of course Papa is against Christians - he always has been and always will be!

But... we must also always remember, that all provinces, princes and powers obtain their rank from God alone. So whatever the reason, even if we do not understand, we as Christians must always remember that there is a purpose behind even the deceptions of the Romans. As there is a purpose behind the massive other deceptions around us today.

Bible Believer said...

I don't see Mom2boys teaching a works gospel. A Christian who is saved WILL WANT to do what God desires. This doesn't mean the works save you but that you are obeying God out of love and that relationship with Him. many of the falsely converted think they were "saved" and the journey is done, and they do not have to obey God. Where is the prompting of the Holy Spirit among those who claim to be born again but do not even desire to obey God?

Bible Believer said...

I agree about not abusing the gospel of grace. The apostate churches have changed the meaning of grace. I mean how many false Christians believe every wolf in a pulpit is saved, just because they said the right words at ONE INSTANCE, salvation means you have the Holy Spirit indwelling, it isn't this "get out clause' all these types seem to sell it as, you can be saved and then sin as much as you want!

Watch out for the types who claim salvation means being able to continue in sin and do abuse the gospel of grace to bring in lies into the churches.
Romans 6

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Bible Believer said...

"If a person says they believe in Jesus as their Savior, then they are saved (John 6:47). "

Not true.

If they say it and are lying they are not saved.

Problem is there are plenty of liars out there.

Yes one believes and is born again, but then remember the false churches will claim anyone who says Jesus is Lord is a fellow Christian. Simply not true. Many simply lie, many were falsely converted, many follow a false gospel or false jesus.

Bible Believer said...

I agree Steve, they never have been Christian not at all!

Anonymous said...

*****"If a person says they believe in Jesus as their Savior, then they are saved (John 6:47). "

Not true.

If they say it and are lying they are not saved.*****



Well the assumption is that they were saying it, because they believed it.

But to make it clear, if they BELIEVE IN JESUS as their Savior, then they are saved. Otherwise, John 6:47 is false, and therefore the whole Bible would be false (unless you import a meaning of "believe" that the Bible never defines, as Jesus defined believing to looking at the bronze serpent).

So Mom2Boys is teaching a false gospel.

Anonymous said...

I know I put something like this in the other post, but I have to put it here too, because this is upsetting already. I can't believe you're buying into this, Bible Believer.

You are saying that some amount of obedience is "evidence" of salvation. Well every cult says that too.

So do you obey God all the time? No, of course you don't. There is some level of disobedience that is okay for you to still be saved with, right? Same with Mom2Boys. It's only others that "don't obey enough", but we all know that you and she obey just the right amount, right?

Forget the mark of the beast thing for a moment. Anyone that takes the mark of the beast, is damned, they can't be saved after that. So put that aside for a moment.

Let's talk about your obedience, and Mom2Boys's obedience. What if you think you are obeying, but you're really not? Then you would be the deceived one.

See why this is works salvation? You can't ever really know, unless you claim that you do obey enough, then you trust in your works.

You can't win with this one, Bible Believer. You have to go with Jesus alone, or with some contribution from yourself. You pick.

Bible Believer said...

God shows the Christian who is not obeying. You aggrieve the Holy Spirit, that is how it works. You are miserable, you are being convicted to repent. If you listen to God and go repent [lets say last week for a Christian born again for 10 years] does this mean you have done "works" to get into heaven? Does this mean your repentance is a "work" and you're ready to go back to the Catholics? See where I am going with this?

This has nothing to do with earning your salvation like a Catholic tallying up points for "Purgatory" if you are average or a lot of them for "heaven" if you are a RCC superstar.

Some believe in a false jesus, the wafer they bow down too, which by the way includes a lot of PROTESTANTS and the false jesus of the apostate church. The false jesus of the apostate church tells people IF "YOU DON"T HEAR MY VOICE< that's OKAY, you're BORN AGAIN, IT's ALL GOOD."

Obeying God is not like false religions who put the whip of appeasement on their followers for their demons ["gods"]. The Catholic "god" [lucifer] was a cruel task master with endless rules and other nonsense, like an accountant with a tallying sheet.

For a born again Christian to obey God, It is out of Love and Relationship. It is not out of "I must do this, or I won't get to heaven!" That is nonsense. I spent a long time as a Catholic, forget that nonsense. Even there people are paying attention more to their own bennies, rather then any love for God who has done so much for them. Why is there all this focus on "we can do whatever we want"? Why isn't the focus on pleasing God?

Pleasing God is not a WORK it is a DESIRE for the Christian who LOVES HIM.

Bible Believer said...

"Let's talk about your obedience, and Mom2Boys's obedience. What if you think you are obeying, but you're really not? Then you would be the deceived one."

Why would a born again Christian who is listening to God, be confused about whether they are obeying or not?

Serious question.

I know my problem areas. Lets just say they are no mystery to me. It's not like I have to sit and ponder my list of sins as a great mystery. Like I have not been shown what they are and I have to sit around like Einstein trying to figure them out. The Holy Spirit is the teacher, remember that. He teaches you about SIN too, and YOUR OWN.

Actually Catholics and the rest of the world DO. There are many things that were sins, I was clueless about when I was not saved, like the celebration of Halloween. The whole church world goes along with Halloween. Do I hate Halloween because I think it is a "work" to get me into heaven, or does Halloween make me puke because in my relationship with God, I know what pleases Him and the things of darkness became revolting the day I was born again?

Did I write against Halloween the other day, because I thought "Oh boy I'll get an upper seat in heaven or at least a middling one", or did I think I love God and I want to warn others, Halloween led little young me right into the occult! I hate seeing people being led AWAY from God right into the devil's arms.

Nothing about works, but standing up for God and for His goodness.

Anonymous said...

Just to reiterate for the audience here as well...

Salvation is free, Jesus paid it all. Growth isn't guaranteed as part of salvation, and it is not a test of salvation.

But you think it is.

I didn't realize this was a lordship salvation blog. Now I know. I will keep away from it.

Anonymous said...

Ahh, I see that mom-2-boys was indeed a false teacher after all. You could tell, she rejects grace, the Gospel, all of this. I will now accept the apology of all those that attacked me for pointing her out as false ;)

Lordship salvation is a heresy, a false gospel that unites protestants, catholics, and yes, even hebrew roots people.

Bible Believer said...

What if she comes back on and says she is not Hebrews Roots? I do think that the rejection of Paul is a serious matter. With phrase "lordship salvation" I tend to avoid that one given that too many back up the false easy believism stuff from the other side. Not saying you do, just I've seen apostate church leaders going to town with that one. Some of them say it to any Christian who discusses obedience to God. [not to win salvation but as a fruit of salvation] There's too many false conversions out there and many continue in their sin or excuse sin believing they are born again when they are not. This is why we got groups like the Whosoevers with legions of fans who adopt the Christian label with no reservation.

Anonymous said...

Even with the issue of fruit of salvation, the problem with that as a measure, is that so often, my fruit might be consistent, then inconsistent. I might grow more quickly sometimes, and then seem to regress at other times. If I used fruit of salvation as a measure of whether I'm going to heaven or not, then I might be sure one day, and unsure the next.

That leads to those kinds of groups that have the, "I got saved Sunday morning, and then doubted whether I was saved by 3pm Sunday afternoon". It's a hellish reality to live in.

Once the person puts that all aside, and says, "Jesus is God, Jesus died for me and rose again, therefore I will be in heaven, guaranteed", then the person finds stability in their walk with the Lord. The righteous fall seven times. But the Lord will never leave nor forsake the one who has called on the Name of the Lord Jesus to save them.

To open the door to nitpicky fruit inspection, is to cause yourself and everyone that hears you, to take eyes off Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and put eyes on my performance. That was the problem with mom-2-boys's doctrine. It was all about performance. That's a false gospel.

Marion said...

Part 4
THIS is what is known as the "gospel." If we present anything less to the lost (the whole counsel of God), we have NOT shared the gospel! If we believe anything less...we are lost! A "gospel" that does not include warning of "sin, righteousness and judgment"...is "another gospel". One who does not acknowledge their sin (rebellion) against God, who is righteous and holy; and offers imputed righteousness through the sacrifice of Jesus, the Christ, and acceptance of such, verified by His resurrection; and judgment for those who "remain in their sin"; who do not desire "peace with God" and all that that means...is in rebellion yet, and has not repented, is not "born again" and "saved."

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31)

This is why we can't present a 'here's the facts, say a prayer' thing...We are told to make DISCIPLES..."teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..." (Matt. 28:20a) This takes TIME, a BIBLE (not a tract...man's words with a few verses in it)....people need to understand these things...THEN they will be converted...and will not fall away.

Mom2Boys...you got it right on salvation...
I am VERY concerned about your comments related to Paul...
will address that tomorrow

Steve said...

Seems like you have a troublemaker on the thread?? I've seen enough of this activity everywhere online, and I know most of the common darts that are thrown - while they always say they are Christian. Its how they lead the flock astray. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this person...

Paul not being an Apostle is one of those darts, and can actually be a valid, yet shallow contention for an intellectual non Christian who has never read the Bible, nor could possibly conceive of its contents.

Yet for a true Christian, there is no doubt whatsoever. Especially for a Christian who reads and studies their Bible properly, without being misled by apostate churches, and who has a solid foundation of hermeneutics to draw from. For there is not one single word from Paul which contradicts any other word of the Gospel or other Epistles. The perfection of Paul's writings in accordance to the true Gospel is evidence enough in itself of his Apostleship.

And for anyone who doesn't already know and may be reading and wondering... if the poster was referring to Colossians 2:14 - my KJV says that it was "handwriting of ordinances" that were nailed to the cross - not the Law. The Greek word for ordinances - being "DOGMA" - meaning the handwritten man made laws of religion... as made up by the Pharisees and Sadducees... yes the very same oral laws that Jesus Christ railed so hard against... were now finished forever.

Dogma is also how we would describe all the made-up catholic laws which also stand as a stumbling block before those who follow them.

The Greek word for Law is "NOMOS" - which as far as I can tell - Paul never referred to as being nailed to the cross.

Anonymous said...

Mom2Boys doesn't have anything right on salvation. She teaches a false gospel of works. Avoid her.

Anonymous said...

I agree with a lot of what Steve said.But,I still think we should pray for Mom2Boys.I'm not sure she is a trouble maker.She is lost.Then pray for her..
What if when I, or any person who was lost, never had someone pray for them.I have heard stories of people who were athiests ,or lost in some way,and a co-worker ,or someone ,was praying for them without them knowing it.Then they came to Christ..
Are we saying prayer is of no effect,but shunning is..
And why is it that anyone who wants to be obedient to God, and wants to keep God's commandments,is so often jumped on as a works salvation catholic.Jesus said"If you love me,keep my commandments"Are we throwing out this verse now..
And if you all are such admitted sinners,and Your saying Mom2Boys is;then wouldn't you want someone to pray for you, if you were in some hugh sin.And,no, I'm not sticking up for her because I think Paul is a false apostle.I do not..You all want Grace ;show her some Mercy...

Steve said...

Hi Anonymous, I can see by reading your words that you’re a sincere son or daughter of Christ. I don’t mean to not be loving towards any other person who is sincerely in Jesus Christ. God forgive me if I disobey this commandment, I know I have such a long road to travel on my own path.

For me, I have been on a lot of “Christian” websites, and watched a lot of Christian movies and sermons on Youtube, and read a lot of reviews of Christian books on Amazon. I’ve seen all the hate and mockery towards Christians on all these sites. Yet one has to wonder why someone who is so anti-christ are they even on these pages in the first place? They are there to cause division, arguments and to propagate disbelief in Jesus Christ. They are all following the same game-plan, and they are all putting forth the same pre-written arguments across every area of the Bible imaginable… and I can name most of these arguments… and I’ve heard and researched all the arguments 100 times…

Whether this person is one of these people… I cannot say? Whether this person is simply following a wrong religion or path? I cannot say. I condemn no person, for such is not my right. Though if I hear a blatant false teacher - I will name them. But if I find any person with a sincere heart for God, who has slightly different beliefs than myself - I welcome and love them in the body of Christ… I love Paul Washer, his heart is pure for God, yet I disagree with some things he believes, and I still call him Brother. If this person is sincere and led astray, then I pray for her to be brought to the light of Christ in truth… however if she is another person who is attempting to cause division amongst the Bride, then so shall I speak for the truth and defence of the Gospel with respect.

I wish Christian love to every person who can accept it, for as we read in Genesis 1 and 2, all people have been blessed by God at their creation. And one of my favourite verses of the Bible is - Revelation 22:17 :-)

Anonymous said...

Steve - Thank-you for your post..
You are truly following Christ with love and sincerity.I feel your post was done in love ,mercy and truth.To me you are a true follower of Christ.I feel blessed by your post..
I can't watch things on youtube because I still have slow dial up.I don't read a lot of reviews;but I do see the hate spewed at Christians a lot.I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and will be more aware of that possibility,as I have heard of that being done on political sites ,which I no longer read much,and have never posted on.I guess I was just giving Mom2boys the benefit of the doubt because she seemed to really want to follow Jesus's word;so I thought maybe she was mislead..Also as a young Christian I had made many mistakes..I admit I have often tried to see the good in people (sometimes to my detriment).And you are right.We are to be as wise as serpents ,and as harmless as doves(which you seem).I will take your comment as edifying.
So ,on lot's of other websites, are there many people who try to say that Paul is the false apostle?I wasn't sure if you were saying that.I am interested in what you say..?I am interested in your research.
Thank-you for replying to my comment.I wasn't sure whether I wasn't just talking into space!
Suki-anon 4:26pm

Steve said...

Hi Suki, yes its difficult to keep up with comments on a blog when we don’t receive an email of a response… or is that just me? And in reading your post just now - it is me who is blessed by your loving words in Jesus Christ… thank you… for I am a man without a church and without brotherhood in Christ, so your words really do mean a lot… I feel your sincerity and love for Jesus Christ in my heart.

I too once used to be a believer in the good of all mankind, I too was once completely innocent. These days I have a real gift for determining the sincerity and intention within people’s words and actions, yet at the same time I am also so careful never to pass judgement, and always allow every person to prove exactly who they are without ever my saying a single word in condemnation. And again forgive me if I am wrong about this person. Yet today I also see so clearly the re-establishment of Babylon by our leaders and those who back them… there is no mistake here, the destruction of our societies is planned, it is deliberate, and it is for the religion of Babylon, which can only mean a war against the true and only God.

Right now, the war against God is great, everything God loves - our societies hate, and everything God hates - our societies love. I often joke that if the Bible condemned keeping pigs in cages - people would be marching in the streets for their “rights” to keep pigs in cages, while screaming that Christians are backwards superstitious haters - its that obvious whats happening.

The war against Jesus Christ is even greater, because He is our promised Redeemer, and our enemy only wants to stop as many people receiving that salvation as possible, because the enemy knows that when he is judged - there is no salvation for him. And this is why all this hate and all these pre-planned arguments against the New Testament are so great right now, and why Christians are now imprisoned for believing the Bible, and why these hate crime laws are in place to imprison more and more people who speak for Jesus Christ with a pure heart and absolute love for others.

Since your post, I watched another man who tore the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion to pieces, and he was right in everything he said. Then I watched some other things he was saying and learned about his books. And this man is an Islam apologist, and a Westcott and Hort mocker - yet he tears the pure KJV to pieces with his hate for it. This man is very intelligent, yet his only purpose is to divide and destroy every inch of Christianity possible - while professing faith in Jesus Christ, and while his own books carry insignias of the anti-christ trinity…

These are indeed difficult times, full of false teachers and liars. We all must keep watchful eyes open at all times. May God’s love and blessings shine upon you and your family - as my friend and fellow-servant in Jesus Christ.

Bible Believer said...

I would like people to get emails on comments, but how do I set that up? Sorry about my lack of technical. Thanks for those last two posts. We do not want anyone in error. I feel sad, when I find out that someone has been deceived by some great error. There are so many false teachers and preachers and they always attack the foundations of God's Word, all of them and lead people astray. Babylon is definitely being set up now. And the war is on against everything God loves, we do see growing evil.
I agree about the pigs in cages thing.

With the apologist for Islam, yes many deceivers will tell a few truths, the Jehovah Witnesses are pretty "safe" while bringing other errors in such as attacking the KJV and God's Word, again striking at the foundations to help ensure more people are not born again and do not believe.

These are hard times. No doubt about it. Our relationship and love for Jesus Christ must sustain us.

You are right about the hate crime laws and the growing persecution.