Wednesday, October 30, 2013

Never Receive The Mark of the Beast


Around 9 years ago,  I made a handout for local people in my old town warning against the mark of the beast. I got some strange looks even as I handed out direct to people, there was a gospel message too on mine, but these warnings are imperative! I found this here. Click link to see larger picture.

The Ephesians 5:11 blog [not an endorsement] has been exposing false teachers who say one can take the mark of the beast [the chip, etc.] and still repent later. I agree with these exposures. That is the Left Behind lie, where in the Left Behind series a character named Chan, was able to take the mark of the beast and then later repent. I am not surprised all these other false teachers have run with it. Many will muddy the waters and lie!

Weird stuff about the mark, to me is one clue that can tell someone almost immediately if someone has a false ministry. If they spiritualize it, watch out! If they tell you, oh it's not really a chip or anything watch out! If they try to say the mark of the beast happens to be the star of David, [yes a wicked occult symbol]  watch out! The mark of the beast WILL HAVE TO DO with BUYING AND SELLING. One can't cherry pick scripture and ignore what half a verse says!

For instance why does Barbara Aho announce that the mark of the beast is NOT the chip implant?

Seen here:


I found this article kind of confusing...why quibble over it being a tattoo--even I have admitted that and then announce affirmatively it will not be a microchip implant? Any tattoo that is used as a buying and selling mark would have micro-technology WITHIN IT. I saw this article around 2003-2004, and didn't trust her website from that point on. There is the focus on the Jews too leaving Rome more out of things.

Then the waters are muddied further with this article:

This article basically says that the Star of David is the mark of the beast. The Star of David is an evil symbol along with a pentagram, but what does it have to do with buying or selling or a mark? See none of this fits? By the reasoning the Jews forced to wear yellow Stars of David during World War II would have been wearing the mark of the beast.

There is a LOT of weird stuff about the mark of the beast out there.

I've read a lot of Seventh Day Adventist literature and because of their false religion, they claim going to church on the wrong Sabbath day is the "mark of the beast". I don't know what that has to do with buying or selling but I digress. Check out this article where they tell their members the RFID chip will NOT be the mark of the beast. Talk about setting your church members up for spiritual destruction even outside the false gospel they have to offer.

Notice these Catholics "spiritualize it" too.

I believe one day the church system if anything will be telling their members to obey the government and line right up to take their RFID chip or tattoo for tracking. Remember there are warnings in the Bible I believe about how this chip will cause cancer. Some have surmised it will be able to stop people's hearts or lead to their instant death via technology. Notice the false churches, the false preachers and teachers are teamed together in cancelling out all the warnings and causing more confusion. Know this now, they will be telling you to take it. All those phony Christian pastors in position, yes, I can even see them holding "GET CHIPPED" Seminars.

If you receive the mark of the beast, you will be going to hell, no ifs, ands or buts about it.  There will be no second chances. I believe if I or the people I am writing this, live to see the tribulation and antichrist, and people around you take the mark, you are to cut all contact with them at that very point. They are hellbound and given over to Satan. If you think that its "better" not to starve or watch your children starve and then take the mark of the beast, YOU WILL END UP IN HELL. Here is a time where one better take faith in God's promises in the Bible to provide for you and trust in Him even unto death. Some may say, biblebeliever that is so hard core, but I am here to tell you the truth. I am not going to lie like those double-talking preachers who mumble about people taking it and then being "sorry" later. Once you take the chip, Satan and His world system owns you!

Revelation 13:5
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

See: The Mark of the Beast Refuse It!

Make sure you read the above article. The bar codes ARE based on 666.




79 comments:

Mom2Boys said...

Christians will take the mark of the beast because:

1) If you go to a 501c3 church, then it's against the rules for them to preach against it. They can, but they can also lose their tax free benefits. You can't preach against anything that the gov't says is legal if you accept the 501c3. There are videos upon videos, sites upon sites that discuss this. Hushmoney is one of them. I don't think it discusses the mark, but it discusses why you should avoid 501c3's.

2)Christians will tell you that all you have to do is "believe" and you will be saved. Therefore nothing, not even the mark of the beast, can get in the way of you going to heaven. Because following what God said is not important, according to those who are not yet awake. All that is important, is that you "believe". So if you say that you can't take the mark of the beast- then they will tell you that are you are unsaved because you are requiring something other than "belief".

And my speculation says, that if you can't walk with the Lord when things are relatively easy, will you really be able to when you are cold, hungry, and not able to buy or sell anything? If you can't turn from wordly teachings when the stakes are mild, will you be able to when someone is threatening to chop your head off if you don't renounce your faith? Or is it more likely that you will mold you faith to fit what keeps you comfortable? That is just my speculation though.

May the Lord give us strength and wisdom during these last days.

Mom2Boys said...

Christians will take the mark of the beast because:

1) If you go to a 501c3 church, then it's against the rules for them to preach against it. They can, but they can also lose their tax free benefits. You can't preach against anything that the gov't says is legal if you accept the 501c3. There are videos upon videos, sites upon sites that discuss this. Hushmoney is one of them. I don't think it discusses the mark, but it discusses why you should avoid 501c3's.

2)Christians will tell you that all you have to do is "believe" and you will be saved. Therefore nothing, not even the mark of the beast, can get in the way of you going to heaven. Because following what God said is not important, according to those who are not yet awake. All that is important, is that you "believe". So if you say that you can't take the mark of the beast- then they will tell you that are you are unsaved because you are requiring something other than "belief".

And my speculation says, that if you can't walk with the Lord when things are relatively easy, will you really be able to when you are cold, hungry, and not able to buy or sell anything? If you can't turn from wordly teachings when the stakes are mild, will you be able to when someone is threatening to chop your head off if you don't renounce your faith? Or is it more likely that you will mold you faith to fit what keeps you comfortable? That is just my speculation though.

May the Lord give us strength and wisdom during these last days.

Mark said...

Hi,

You have a lot of good stuff on this site, but you have this one wrong my friend. You are taking ONE verse and building a doctrine on it. Yes, it says that those who don't take the mark of the beast will not be able to buy or sell. Why on earth does that HAVE to mean the mark will be a microchip? Once the money system goes electronic, if you then don't go along with 'beast worship', they can then cut off your finances WITHOUT an implanted microchip.

You have missed out Revelation 14, the three angels messages, where it explicitly tells us IN CONTEXT that the mark is to do with WORSHIP.

It's all about worship my friend. God is not interested in microchips. He's interested in worship.

I can tell you now for a FACT that if a microchip was FORCED upon me, then I can still be saved. BUT, if I give my worship to the Papal beast instead of God, then I will lost. It's all about worship.

FaithGuy3 said...

If Barbara Aho really thinks the mark of the beast is ON the right hand or forehead, then she was reading an NIV!

The King James Bible says IN the right hand or forehead!

Considering the modern-day church in America(and around the world) don't use the KJB, it's no surprise they're writing off the proper interpretation!

No wonder why John MacArthur and Brannon House think you can still get saved even if you take the mark!

Anonymous said...

Mom2Boys obviously rejects the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. She doesn't believe John 3:16. She just won't get off it. She sounds like a catholic.

Anyway, it is a fact that a person can't be saved after they take the mark of the beast. All these guys now coming out saying you can be saved after it, are false teachers on that alone.

Anonymous said...

"You have missed out Revelation 14, the three angels messages, where it explicitly tells us IN CONTEXT that the mark is to do with WORSHIP."

It is not simply about worship.

Revelation 14:9-10 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, AND RECIEVE HIS MARK IN HIS FOREHEAD, OR IN HIS HAND, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:"

Now, perhaps they go hand in hand. Meaning, that taking the mark and the worship of the beast go together. If you agree to the mark, then you have no problems with worship of the beast. You do one, you do the other.

Because if a person cannot resist the mark, then they would hardly resist worship of the beast.




Anonymous said...

I really do not understand what is happening out there. How can Christians accept all this deception. When you try and tell people they say your are self-righteous. Are we self-righteous? That is always the default position for people/christians when they can't accept what we are saying I guess.

Anyone else dealing with this...is it because we not following like the rest of the sheep. I truly do not know what I would do without the five or six blogs that continue to expose. Thank you so much you are certainly a place of refuge.!!
Lina

FaithGuy3 said...

Mark, taking the mark goes along with the worshipping of the beast.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

And no, the mark will NOT be forced on anyone - the NIV replaced "causeth"(which the KJB uses) with "forced" in Rev 13:16. BIG difference!

FaithGuy3 said...

"BUT, if I give my worship to the Papal beast instead of God, then I will lost. It's all about worship."

So Buddhist, Hindu, Islam, Christian Science, Mormon, Freemasonry, and atheist believers are not lost b/c they don't worship the Papal system?

This is the BIG problem with the belief that it's just the worshipping of the Papal system means taking the mark of the beast.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Notice they say ALL not written in the book of life - NOT just Catholic believers.

Bible Believer said...

The papal beast is over all the false religions of the world including freemasonry. One thing all false religions honor the Pope, the freemasons certainly do.

One thing with the worship part one anon, brought up...You don't see people 'worshipping the beast" now in their love of the world? What is more love of the world then handing yourself over to be chipped by human NWO masters where they own you lock stock and barrel. People are worshipping the beast now, if you get what I mean. That doesn't have to be a formal ceremony where they literally march every non-Christian to bow before the antichrist or an image of him. There are plenty worshipping the beast today. The man of perdition just hasn't been revealed yet.

And to the poster who mentions the three angels etc. Be careful there, someone has spritualized the teachings to you. Let me ask you a question would you take this microchip if ordered by the government?

Good warning Mom2boys, all the you don't have to obey God crowd and who muddy the waters and abuse the gospel of grace, will make use of their false message to bring people to take the mark of the beast.

FaithGuy3 said...

"And to the poster who mentions the three angels etc. Be careful there, someone has spritualized the teachings to you. Let me ask you a question would you take this microchip if ordered by the government?"

In years past on message forums, I've had these discussions with Preterists and those who "spiritualize" the book of Revelation - when I ask them this very question, their response is, "Well, well...I wouldn't do it...but, but...".

As you can see right there, they stumbled at God's word.

1Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Anonymous said...

"all the you don't have to obey God crowd and who muddy the waters and abuse the gospel of grace, will make use of their false message to bring people to take the mark of the beast."

So do you obey God all the time? No, of course you don't. There is some level of disobedience that is okay for you to still be saved with, right? Same with Mom2Boys. It's only others that "don't obey enough", but we all know that you and she obey just the right amount, right?

Forget the mark of the beast thing for a moment. Anyone that takes the mark of the beast, is damned, they can't be saved after that. So put that aside for a moment.

Let's talk about your obedience, and Mom2Boys's obedience. What if you think you are obeying, but you're really not? Then you would be the deceived one.

See why this is works salvation? You can't ever really know, unless you claim that you do obey enough, then you trust in your works.

You can't win with this one, Bible Believer. You have to go with Jesus alone, or with some contribution from yourself. You pick.

Mom2Boys said...

Mom2Boys obviously rejects the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. She doesn't believe John 3:16. She just won't get off it. She sounds like a catholic.

=========

No, I won't get off of it. "It" being the truth. I also will not let you tell a lie on me, or create a straw man argument. I've already said I am not Catholic and I reject anything that says you have to do things which God said NOT to do.

I don't reject the Lord, because I strive to do what He says. That doesn't mean I am perfect, and I never will be. That is why blood was shed.

What I reject is the gospel of man that says that you don't have to listen to the Lord. What I reject
is a self-proclaimed liar who said, "I told a lie, but the truth of God was spread through it, so why are you calling me a sinner" (Romans 3:7)

What I reject is anyone who says they saw Jesus in the wilderness (or desert),when Jesus said- "believe it not!"

And I reject arguing with anyone who doesn't read the Bible and pray before trying to condemn me for listening to the Lord, over man and traditions.

Which one is it? If all you have to do is believe,then why are you saying that a person can't be saved
after taking the mark of the beast? Why can't they? Jesus died for them too right? They believe it? So why are you changing your argument now? Why can't someone who believes that Jesus died for their sins be saved if they take the mark of the beast?

You worship a Lord and you don't even know what His name is. I use Jesus for clarification, but in real life, I strive to actually use His name. You worship a Lord who you say you don't have to listen to because some man (who didn't even know Him on earth) said you are free. You believe this man because he says he saw the Lord in the wilderness, when the Lord told you if someone says that- believe it not.

You ignore your Lords warnings that tells you how to identify a false prophet. And then when someone points you to the verses, you don't even read them and pray about it, you cling to your traditions.

Why can't someone be saved if they take the mark of the beast? Is it required to listen to the Lord, or not?

Mom2Boys said...

WHO DO YOU SERVE?

My Lord says that the Father is a God of the living, not the dead (Luke 20:38)

Your lord says that He is the Lord
of the living and the dead. (Romans 14:9)

My Lord said that by your words you
shall be justified or condemned. (Matthew 12:37)

Your lord says, a man is justified by faith apart from works (Romans 3:28)

My Lord says there is a cost for salvation. And who builds a tower without considering the cost? My Lord said the cost is that
you have to give up your life and follow Him.(Luke 14:26-28)

Your lord says that salvation is a free gift, there is no cost to you. (Romans 6:23) Which is another way of saying you
don't have to do anything.

My Lord says, Woe unto you when
all men speak well of you. (Luke 6:26, Luke 16:15 )

Your lord says that he pleases men
in all things. (1 Cor 10:33)

My Lord says that whoever believes in Him shall never die (John 11:26)

Your lord says that he dies daily
in Christ Jesus (1 Cor 15:31)

My Lord says, call no man on earth your father. For your Father is in heaven (Matthew 23:9)

Your lord says he has begotten you in Christ- which means he is your father (1 Cor 4:15)

My Lord said He didn't come to destroy the law
(Matthew 5:17)

Your lord says that Christ is the end of the law.
(Romans 10:4)


My Lord said that pharisees are hypocrites who shut the door to the kingdom of heaven in people's
faces. He says they cannot enter the doors of heaven. He says that the converts of pharisees are children of hell. (Matthew 23:13)

Your lord says he is a Pharisee. (Acts 23:6)

Time is short. Choose now who you will serve.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how to translate revelations yet,and feel sure.But,isn't the Beast,the systems of this world(Gov.,religion,education,etc..).How many people can buy or sell today without ,let's say the irs..Or their social security number.Maybe all these are in preparation for the actual mark in the hand or forehead..
Mom2boys is right..Narrow is the way;and "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake;for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven".

Bible Believer said...

When did Mom2Boys claim she was sinless. She did not. I never have either. I actually have seen books by rare deceived people that believe once you are Christian, and born again, that you never sin again, that is nonsense.

Salvation is not dependent on any works. The Bible says to examine yourself if you are in the faith. Desire to obey God even if you sin at times, is one of those fruits.

There's no contribution from myself leading to salvation, salvation is based on the righteousness of Jesus Christ not on any human's. Good works are the FRUIT of salvation, they do not EARN IT.

You know one thing that disturbs me, is this particular debate can get annoying. A Christian posts Bible verses and says it is good to desire to serve and obey the Lord and then the church trained crowd goes nuts, claiming they believe they are tallying up the works like a Catholic to gain entrance into heaven. Do you realize you are jumping up and down for the crowd that wants to make sin more acceptable? Who want to tell people that grace means you can sin til the cows come home! Is that what you want to defend? Sure everyone sins, I still sin. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar.

1 John 1:10

King James Bible
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

What does "My Sheep Hear My Voice" mean to you?

Think about that one.

I thought this was a good question from Mom

"Why can't someone be saved if they take the mark of the beast? Is it required to listen to the Lord, or not?"

Jesus's sheep will listen to Him and not take the mark, they hear His voice and LISTEN.

It is the false churches trying to tell people you do not have to listen, you can do anything you want. They have muddied up salvation with the santification that comes in the Christian life.

Bible Believer said...

Yes the beast is the system of this world. NWO, one world order etc.

Faith Guy, I've asked the Preterist crowd when did anyone have a mark to buy or sell in Nero's time. That one stops them cold. They don't know. Some may make something up that is spiritual but it never "fits". I have seen defenses for taking the mark [RFID chip or tattoo] on many rotten false Christian boards.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but how can mom2boys be taken seriously, when she rejects Paul and is calling him a liar?

She uses verses out of context to do this. And is also attacking the bible as being filled with error as regard to Paul's teachings. That the bible contradicts itself.

Paul is NOT calling himself a liar in Romans 3:7. He is using hypothetical language. He is responding to criticism.

Bible believer, you defend mom2boys on the salvation issue, but do not bring up her error with Paul and the bible.





Bible Believer said...

Where did she reject Paul...quote please. I'm reading a lot of text on this blog maybe I missed it.

I do not reject Paul --need to make that clear.

Where did I say growth is part of salvation. You are still getting salvation mixed up with sanctification. Someone that is born again 2 minutes before they die goes to heaven.

No time for growth there, like the thief on the cross.

Wow you seem to be mixing up some words and ideas here.

Timothy 2:21 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Anonymous said...

HI Bible Believer- I am a loyal reader of your blog. I have only been a Christian for a year and I am deeply troubled by the accusation that mom2boys is bringing that Paul was a false apostle. If this is true, 13 of the 27 books of the New Testament need to be rejected. It would also stand to reason that Luke and Peter were both fooled by him. Luke traveled alongside Paul and featured him prominently in the book of Acts. Does this call into question the authority of the gospel Luke wrote and the book of Acts? Peter referred to Paul as a "beloved brother" and compared his writings to "other scripture" (2 Peter 3:15-16). I'm not arguing for or against, at the end of the day all I want is the truth. But I think you owe it to your readers to address this issue. Thank you so much. God Bless

Anonymous said...

"Where did she reject Paul...quote please. I'm reading a lot of text on this blog maybe I missed it."

Notice the post she wrote in this comment section, "WHO DO YOU SERVE?"

She compares what Paul writes to what Jesus said in the bible.

She uses the term "your lord" when describing what Paul writes and then uses the term "My Lord" when quoting Jesus. Notice also how she only capitalizes the "My Lord" part.

In other words, she is saying that Paul's writings are false. Paul being the "your lord" guy.

Here is a quote from her.

"Your lord says he is a Pharisee. (Acts 23:6)" She is speaking of Paul.

In the post above that she makes this statement.

"What I reject is the gospel of man that says that you don't have to listen to the Lord. What I rejectis a self-proclaimed liar who said, "I told a lie, but the truth of God was spread through it, so why are you calling me a sinner" (Romans 3:7)"

She clearly says that she rejects Paul. Calling him a "self-proclaimed liar".

Also, I am not the other anonymous person talking to you about Salvation. I'm NOT anonymous posting at October 31, 2013 at 11:15 AM. I am a different anonymous.

Yes, it gets confusing with all of the anonymouses.












Bible Believer said...

Sigh....

Thanks for explaining that "lord" stuff. I skimmed that one way too quick. [Thought she was using Bible verses to refer to bad behavior of apostate churches, not downing Paul] May have gave too much benefit of doubt there, the way it was worded was confusing.

I wrote AGAINST the rejection of Paul.

Anyone throwing out half the NT definitely is in confusion.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/05/confusion-with-paul.html

Bible Believer said...

Its strange she would refer to Paul as "your lord". :(

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer, it's Mom2Boys' WHO DO YOU SERVE entry, from October 31, 2013 at 12:04 wherein she counterpoints Jesus' words as recorded in the Gospels and those of Paul drawn from the epistles to the Romans and the Corinthians.

Whereas she did not necessarily single Paul out by name, she referred to him in the rhetorical: "my God (meaning Jesus)says.../your god (meaning Paul) says..."

I was taken aback by it, as I have appreciated many of Mom2Boys' entries over the past several months. But I didn't see this coming. This has me quite concerned. Her counterpoint was like that of "Jesus only" proponents who discount the writings of the apostle Paul as counter to those of Jesus. Reminiscent of "red letter" Christians, as some refer to themselves.

But the teachings of the apostle Paul harmonize with those of Jesus when presented in their proper context. ~ Lynn

Anonymous said...

Apparently Mom2boys is into the Hebrew Roots Movement. She does not approve of Paul because he gets in her face, like he did with Peter. She is selling a gospel of Grace + works (law keeping) which is NOT the true Gospel. To her "Doing what the Lord says" means keeping the Mosaic covenant and has hinted that Jesus' TRUE name is Yeshua. I will stay with Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus. - Don

Bible Believer said...

Yes I now see what people are talking with her counteracting the words of Paul. Mom2Boys if we are misunderstanding this, can present her side but now that people point it out..... Who is the "lord" being referred to? She meant Paul?

I was confused by someone who otherwise had very good posts, posting this. So she basically was putting scripture against scripture? How strange. I suppose now I am taken aback too Lynn. There are those who preach against Paul out there as I wrote in that one article. I do not know how such people can have any trust in scripture if half of the NT is considered false. They certainly do not believe in God's promises to preserve His Word. I may have given too much of a benefit of the doubt here. Yes Don, in Hebrew Roots they do teach law keeping. I had one on a message board, tell me if someone eats pork they will go to hell.

Anonymous said...

Bible Believer, you got bamboozled by a hebrew roots cult member. See, you think that if someone says some right things, they must automatically be right on other things. Mom2Boys is the lordship salvationist that many pegged her as from the beginning. They saw her works for salvation error. You need to read fully the comments before you attack other posters who are actually right. Making Jesus Lord of your life is not a step of salvation, but it ought to be a product of salvation. If it is not, then the person might still be a believer that fell like David and Lot fell as believers. So be careful in the future. Mom2Boys took you for a ride.

Bible Believer said...

Hey I'm not perfect. Never claimed to be. It can be disappointing, because there are so many weird cults out there, and some change the language to sound "reasonable" and aren't. Remember I'm the one who has warned that websites can have endless truths and then bring in that one lie. I know on here, one has to keep on their toes. This is probably what I get too for trying to respond to intense discussions while too tired and up too early. I agree making Jesus Christ Lord of your life is a product of salvation. Given her other posts that were so good, this did surprise me. I'm kind of sad about it all really. Those Hebrew Roots folks do a lot of damage, I have posted against them acouple years ago on here but not so much recently.

Marion said...

Part 1
Mom2Boys and others:

I would first of all like to comment related to the "lordship salvation" issue, remembering that in ALL things we MUST consider the instruction of the WHOLE counsel of God...since "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim. 3:16-17) (all caps in Bible verses mine for emphasis) That also means, I will be using the words of Jesus, along with Paul and others, to show that their instruction is cohesive and not contrary, one to another....I will deal with Paul in my next comment, since this is rather lengthy. Remembering also, that our use and understanding of scripture must be IN CONTEXT. So, look them up...because there's more, and a human synopsis does not do THE word of God justice.

When Jesus said "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me" (John 14:1)...what did He mean exactly?

Did He mean that we are to believe in the truth that He (the Word) became flesh and dwelt among us...that He existed in actual physical form...as we? I say, yes, and so much more...because as we know..."Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." (James 2:19)

So, it is not just believing...and yet it is...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

Saving faith is a faith that believes EVERYTHING pertaining to Jesus and who He is...is true...understanding with the HEART.

After all...the Pharisees had faith in the scriptures, taught the scriptures...yet Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39)...and yet He declared that "Ye are of your father the devil...and because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not." (John 8:44a; 45)...AND an understanding of who we become in Christ...these are not "works" or "growth"...these are ALL involved in this thing we call "faith."

Who is Jesus? What are we to believe about Him? (short, focused answer...not meant to be exhaustive). Amongst other things,

HE IS LORD!

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord"...(Matt 7:22) (Jesus speaking)

He is LORD!...we don't MAKE Him Lord of our lives...HE IS LORD!

ANYONE who fails to comprehend and accept this (not works) by FAITH...is NOT saved!

"Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me." (Matt. 15:25

"He saith unto them, How then doth David in sirit call him Lord, saying..." (Matt 22:43)

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)" (Acts 10:36)

"And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Rev. 19:16)

Jesus MUST be Lord...because...HE IS!

When we come to Him, we come to Him as Lord...if He is not Lord...what sacrifice and salvation does He have the authority to offer those who "believe" on His name?

Marion said...

Part 2
Why did Jesus come? Jesus said, "For the Son of man is come to seek and save that which was lost." (Luke 19:10)
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor. 5:19-21)

For what purpose? Jesus said, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)
Peter wrote: "But YE are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, BUT are now the PEOPLE OF GOD: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." (1 Peter 2:9-10)
"Using" Jesus as a fire escape is not Biblical...He came to seek worshippers, to create a royal priesthood, a holy nation, to beget children of God.

Anonymous said...

Dear Christian friends,watch this you tube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgHoVZhTkI4&feature=player_embedded

Anonymous said...

I have learned a lot in reading and responding to this blog. I consider it an honor to have the Lord lead me here and to be able to come along side Bible Believer. I have a great deal of respect for you and what you do here Bible Believer. Anyone else having anything to say, I say let us see you blog. - Don

Anonymous said...

Marion is making the same mistake as Mom2Boys, by mixing in growth Scriptures with salvation. Salvation cannot include growth, and is no guarantee of any growth. Thus, Marion is in severe error. Nobody can be saved by what Marion is saying.

Don't fall for it again, Bible Believer. There are too many coming here to annihilate the truth of Jesus Christ and the sufficiency of what He did on the cross. Marion is now attacking the Gospel. Stand against it, is my humble advice.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Don.
May God Bless BB;you are in my prayers..

Also,I don't believe bb ever attacks anyone..She is very gracious to have us here on her blog.Tones can be percieved differentely on the web,because we are not face to face..It can be hard to tell if offence is meant..
As for Mom2Boys;pray for her or show her the truth;don't attack her...I have made mistakes in doctrine and otherwise and then when someone kindly showed me the truth,I was more receptive.
Suki

Anonymous said...

God bless you BB. I appreciate your diligence in research, articulate writing and long hours you give to the cause of Christ. That aside, in my reading the arguments and noting there so much division. A great deal of that I am suspect comes from those who are trusting in Calvins'(a RCC priest) notion that the believer can never "fall from grace" cf Ga5:4, plus the other erroneous notion that there will be a pre-trib. "Rapture", (another RCC invention) and that they shall taken out prior to the arrival of the son of perdition and the trib. I had a teacher in the last assembly I attended actually tell me that he would even have 666 marked on his hand with zero compunction because he knew it would not be the mark of the beast b/c he was still here! When I posed that llThes 2:1-3 contradicted that idea and he could not wiggle out except to counter with Jesus would not leave his Bride to the anguish of the trib. It seems he also didn't recall 2Co_1:6 or Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
2Ti_2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2Ti_3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. Therefore, we conclude, believers are called to suffer. These poor souls can only interpret and/or understand scripture as it filtered and ''wrested'' through the lips of the pulpit pope. I believe Paul stated so succinctly in 2Ti_4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have "kept the faith": If I be accused of a works salvation-as I often have- let be, "I have kept the faith".
At any rate, I want to show the great danger for those who hold to RCC Calvins' ideology for it is damning if practiced fully.

Marion said...

Part 4
THIS is what is known as the "gospel." If we present anything less to the lost (the whole counsel of God), we have NOT shared the gospel! If we believe anything less...we are lost! A "gospel" that does not include warning of "sin, righteousness and judgment"...is "another gospel". One who does not acknowledge their sin (rebellion) against God, who is righteous and holy; and offers imputed righteousness through the sacrifice of Jesus, the Christ, and acceptance of such, verified by His resurrection; and judgment for those who "remain in their sin"; who do not desire "peace with God" and all that that means...is in rebellion yet, and has not repented, is not "born again" and "saved."

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31)

This is why we can't present a 'here's the facts, say a prayer' thing...We are told to make DISCIPLES..."teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..." (Matt. 28:20a) This takes TIME, a BIBLE (not a tract...man's words with a few verses in it)....people need to understand these things...THEN they will be converted...and will not fall away.

Mom2Boys...
I am VERY concerned about your comments related to Paul...
will address that as I get the time...check back

Marion said...

Anonymous (without lord) stated:

"Marion is making the same mistake as Mom2Boys, by mixing in growth Scriptures with salvation. Salvation cannot include growth, and is no guarantee of any growth. Thus, Marion is in severe error. Nobody can be saved by what Marion is saying. "

There is NO mistake here. Part 3 & 4 had been left off and are now submitted.

I would like to know EXACTLY where does the SCRIPTURES say that "salvation cannot include growth, AND IS NO GUARANTEE OF ANY GROWTH."

Book, chapter, verse...please...

In my Bible...there are NONE.

However it does say,
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Phil. 1:8)

Which "good work" was begun in me?
Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit...
"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" (1 Cor. 1:30)
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit and the belief of the truth:" (2 Thes. 2:13)

THEN...after salvation...we are to participate with the Spirit in this sanctification:
""That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: (1 Thes. 4:4-5)
(who is Lord)
(all caps mine for emphasis)

This is called "growth."

I would suggest that you put aside all you've "heard, read, been taught, etc." related to this false argument of "lordship salvation" and read exactly what the Bible says...about EVERYTHING...you will find, as many of us have...that what we thought was true, is in fact a lie. Because you...dear one...are the one in severe error. I have presented the Biblical doctrines using MANY Scriptures...you have merely thrown around many words and phrases and accusations which mislead and malign...false logic...no serious Bible presentation made.

One of the things Satan loves dearly is the ability to separate our salvation by the precious blood of Christ...from the LORD Jesus Christ.

So again, in case it got lost,
just WHERE in Scripture do we find..."Salvation cannot include growth, and is no guarantee of any growth."

I have shown WITH Scripture...that salvation does indeed include growth...God's part, prior to salvation and on-going, and our part...after salvation, in a few verses...there are many others...one just needs to study the Word.

Marion said...

To the anonymous who posted this video link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgHoVZhTkI4&feature=player_embedded

That video is loaded with error and deception...subtle. I am only going to make mention of 2 items in particular, they are late in the video since the written notes early on are overlaid on the video...hard on the eyes.

If you go to marker 32:41 where he posts "supporting scriptures" for "HIS" ideas of the "right hand"...stop the video, and look up the verses. You will notice that the scriptures he uses say "hand", whereas he leads you to believe it says "right hand."

Now go to marker 32:54 where he posts "supporting scriptures" for "HIS" ideas related to the "forehead"...you will notice these verses (I only looked up a couple; it was all I needed) use the word "mind"...for which he is imposing "forehead."

Mind and forehead are 2 very different things.

I suspect the person is a 7th Day Adventist.

If we are to view and read materials by other related to Scripture, we need to be sure to "test all things." When Scripture is used, look it up, examine the context, does it square with the whole of Scripture?

May I encourage you here?
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim. 2:15)

May I

Marion said...

Don:
Above you stated, "I have learned a lot in reading and responding to this blog."
and "I have a great deal of respect for you and what you do here Bible Believer. Anyone else having anything to say, I say let us see you blog."

May I ask some questions? Do you ONLY learn from BB? And because others may not have blogs...does that means that there is nothing of value that you can learn from them?...be edified by them?...exhorted by them?

Do you have a blog Don? If not, are you saying you have nothing valid to contribute...because I would have to disagree with that. I have found you have contributed many good things.
When you say, "Anyone else having anything to say, I say let us see you blog."...sounds somewhat contemptuous.
I hope I am wrong...would you like to clarify?

"Preach the word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2Tim. 4:2)
"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." (Heb. 3:13)

Looks to me like we ALL, if we belong to the Lord Jesus Christ...ought have something to contribute...

Marion said...

Part 3 (BB-please place this above part 4; this is the 3rd attempt to send this comment;thanx)

Who are these people of God? They have received the love of the truth, that they might be saved, (2 Thes. 2:10);ALL of it-with NO denials.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (LORD-my input) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12-13)
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." (John 3:5-7)

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)

"But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. " (all of it - comment mine) And this is the word which by the GOSPEL is preached unto you." (ALL the word) (1 Peter 1:25)

These are no longer people in rebellion against a holy God (even though they still sin, since they are still in this "body of this death"-Rom. 7:24); but are the people of God, whose peace with Him was bought by "the precious blood of Christ" (1 Pet. 1:19), who understand that they are "not their own"...they were "bought with a price"-and HE IS LORD!

Works do not save. It is clearly stated in Scripture...see Eph. 2:8-9 - also quoted above)
Works however, bear witness to faith. Jesus taught this. The context is rewards, but the message is clear that the people of faith on His right hand, the sheep ("My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 19:27) manifested their faith via works; the goats on the left, void of faith, were also void of works. (see Matt. 25:31-46)
Jesus said we would know the "false prophets and teachers "by their fruits" (Matt. 7:16) (context v. 15-20)

Marion said...

Part 3b (BB would you fix this one too? The problem was I had too many characters and didn't notice; thanx)

AND THEN...there are those who HAVE works-without faith...Jesus has this to say:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the WILL of my father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:21)
Aside: Jesus said: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, (seeth that He is Lord? - mine) and believeth on him,may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the LAST day."(John 6:40)
DOING the will of God is to believe, and the doings of faith (obedience and works); is a manifestation of faith.

continuing from Matt. 7:21 above... Jesus had this further to say:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt. 7:22-23)

Also see: James 2:14-26

"But now the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Being JUSTIFIED freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time jhis righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting them? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Rom. 3:21-28)

James 2:24 does not say we are justified by works contradicting other scriptures, but rather, this "justification" serves as a "witness" to faith.

Our works bear witness of faith, and who we are in Christ.
Jesus said: "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 5:45-46); Do read context of all scriptures.

Anonymous said...

Marion, you are just plain wrong. Salvation does not include "automatic" growth. If it did, then the Bible wouldn't exhort growth. It would just say, "here's the automatic result of being saved".

You're just dead wrong, but I can see that you won't even consider the possibility that you're wrong. Your stubbornness makes discussion pointless. You teach works for salvation, and I thank the Lord that you are not the Lord.

Kathy said...

Interesting video anonymous at November 1, 2013 at 10:41 AM.

Mom2Boys said...

I suppose now I am taken aback too Lynn. There are those who preach against Paul out there as I wrote in that one article. I do not know how such people can have any trust in scripture if half of the NT is considered false.
-----------

I think there has been a misunderstanding. First of all, I have no idea what Hebrew Roots is. My teacher is the Holy Spirit. First I am Catholic, now I am a Hebrew Root? How about I am a humble servant of the Lord trying to warn you that you need to listen to Him.

Secondly, yes, you should be taken aback as you've been lied to. Putting scripture against scripture? I don't know what that means in this context. I was asking, do you believe Jesus or do you believe Paul? That should not be offensive. But okay, let's ignore all of those verses I posted.

I do reject Paul as the false apostle in Rev 2:1-3. Why? He said he was rejected in Asia. Luke said he was rejected in Asia (and Luke was NOT calling him false). And Jesus is pleased that the Church of Ephesus tested and rejected a false apostle.

Why else? Because Jesus said not to trust Pharisees, and Paul said he was a Pharisee. Do you believe Jesus? Because Genesis prophesies that "Benjamin is a ravenous wolf; In the morning he devours the prey, And in the evening he divides the spoil." (Genesis 49: 27)

Then we have Paul, a former killer of Christians who describes himself as a Benjamin.(Romans 1: 1 ) Right now in this world- we have Bible Believers who try to understand God’s word and stick to it, verses Cultural Christians who may try to serve the Lord, but they do what Paul says instead. This is division. Going back in time, we have Paul saying he is to minister to the Gentiles and Peter is to minister to the Jews (more division). Then, we have a verse that predicts that a Benjamin will devour or kill its prey; and then divide it.

What else do you need to turn off the local Christian station, and turn back to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob? What did Jesus say about traditions of men?

The Parable of the Wheat and Tares. Paul is the tare. The 10 Virgins. You who believe you don't have to listen to God are the virgins with lamps without oil.

Signs and wonders. Paul said he saw Jesus outside of Damascus. First of all, his story changes, but perhaps that doesn't bother you. Ok. What did Jesus say about people seeing him in the wilderness? No, you can't argue it was a vision because 1) Paul said there were two people with him that heard the voice but didn't see anything. Then he said the people saw a light but didn't hear anything. (Which was it??) So this wasn't a vision. He also said Jesus came to him just as he came to the apostles. (1 Corinthians 15:5-8)

What did Jesus say about people seeing him and saying he was here or there?

And before you answer, John saw Jesus in heaven in the book of revelations, not on earth.

Speaking of John, he tried to warn us too, but I don't have time to go into that now.

How can I trust in scripture? Why wouldn't I? The scriptures point to the truth! All of Paul's writings are supposed to be there. Why? As a test to see if you love the Lord. I didn't say that, the Lord did. Deuteronomy 13:1-5.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. The link on my name is to a site that has more information. I can't vouch for their overall beliefs, but they have a lot more information for them that have ears.

Yes, it's shocking. But it is better to be shocked now, then shocked later with a "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Follow Jesus. If that offends you, then there is nothing else to say.

Mom2Boys said...

I shouldn't post thoughts and not complete them.

More about John here
http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/jesuswordsonly/110-chapter-thirteen-jwo.html

I wish that KJV was used, but the points remain. And the same warning applies about not knowing this authors beliefs.

Follow Jesus. He is the one who can save you. Not your religious doctrines. Not your beliefs and feelings. And not even your beloved Paul. Jesus is the way.

Anonymous said...

@Marion I intended to insert the word "negative" in that sentence, but it did not happen (my fault). Hebrews 12:14 - Don

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Don for your kind words.

Don knows I have always said check my words, and test everything even what is on this blog. I am an ordinary human being so not perfect.

Bible Believer said...

Breaking this down, how is one born again, and then doesn't grow?

Maybe I am confused or something but only a few days after I was born again, God told me to go get only a KJV Bible and I was a Catholic before then, what did I know?

If you are born again and don't grow or have the Holy Spirit make you a NEW CREATURE

Where you ever born again?

Bible Believer said...

"How can I trust in scripture? Why wouldn't I? The scriptures point to the truth! All of Paul's writings are supposed to be there. Why? As a test to see if you love the Lord."

Are you seriously trying to tell me God put false scriptures into His Word to test us?

I am sorry I can't buy that. I find that stretches credibility to the extreme.

Someone could claim that the Koran and other books were God-inspired then and meant to test us.

I am sorry you were deceived by anti-Paul preachers. I was newly saved and came across a Sherry Shriner website where she decried Paul while warning of the NWO. The Holy Spirit showed me immediately that was a false teaching.

Bible Believer said...

I am curious, do you have a NT where every writing of Paul has been removed?


"Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon

Does this mean you throw out a lot of the book of Acts too such as the chapter on Paul and Silas?

I have to admit I find some of this so very extreme.

How can you say you are a Christian and believe God's Word when you throw out so much of the NT?

Anonymous said...

Mom2boys: This is an honest question, not coming from a place of argument. I'm not dogmatic and all I'm after is the truth and would like your take on this. If Paul's writings are a test to see if we follow him or Jesus, did Peter pass or fail this test when he referred to Paul as "a beloved brother" and compared his writings with "other scriptures".
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15, 16 KJV)
It seems to me Peter believed Pauls writings were scripture, meaning they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:20, 21 KJV). Again, please don't take this as an argument. I just want the truth either way.

Marion said...

Anonymous (without Lord) wrote:

"Marion, you are just plain wrong. Salvation does not include "automatic" growth. If it did, then the Bible wouldn't exhort growth. It would just say, "here's the automatic result of being saved".

You're just dead wrong, but I can see that you won't even consider the possibility that you're wrong. Your stubbornness makes discussion pointless. You teach works for salvation, and I thank the Lord that you are not the Lord."

AGAIN: you merely pronounce me "wrong"..."it would just say, 'here's the automatic result of being saved'"...(strawman argument...I never said that!)
You pronounce me "stubborn" (rather I am steadfast in my convictions - Biblical convictions. IF you had bothered to read my posts...and I suggest all make the effort to hunt and read in order...1,2,3,3b,4...there were posting problems - on my end)...NO WHERE do I teach 'works for salvation'...(kindly show the evidence without blanket statements)...again...an allegation made without evidence. You read and summarize with a 'twist'...this is not honest appraisal and criticism.

HOWEVER...We ALL notice, I believe...that I have asked you TWICE to support your statements using SCRIPTURE...Book, Chapter, Verse...and you have not...

We are all adults here, and able to read the posts, compare them with Scriptures and discern the truth with the help of the Holy Spirit...(IF we HAVE Him)...you have presented NO BIBLICAL BASIS for any of your position, opinion or argument. Hence, there can be no discussion with you.

I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

BB- Just to point out although mom2boys denies Hebrew Roots she does seem to adhere to the belief that calling our Lord "Jesus" is not good enough and we need to call him "Yahshua" etc. Note her comment from 10-31 at 11:37 am "You worship a Lord and you don't even know what His name is. I use Jesus for clarification, but in real life, I strive to actually use His name."

Ephesians 511 Blog said...

Jesus affirmed Luke.

Luke affirmed Paul by writing the Book of Acts inspired by the Holy Spirit.

If one throws out Paul then you must throw out the Holy Spirit, Luke & finally Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Marion, go read John 6:47, and if you need it, there are HUNDREDS of Scriptures like it. I have not the time or desire to type them all. I just got out of a wonderfully encouraging church service, so, if you can't read John 6:47 and believe it, then you won't accept any of the HUNDREDS of others that say what it says, and I'd be wasting my precious time. If you can't read John 6:47 and accept it, then posting hundreds of other Scriptures would take more time than to kick the dust off my feet.

Anonymous said...

You can't go to what you are. The New Testament references the Church almost
150 times and never once talks about a building. It is the people not the place. 1 John 2:27 - Don

Anonymous said...

Mom2Boys,

IT IS WRITTEN:

ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (2TIM 3:16)

-JL

Marion said...

Anonymous (without Lord)

You seem to answer questions that haven't been asked; thinking they will suffice, when they only distract.

The unanswered question to you still remains:

I would like to know EXACTLY where does the SCRIPTURES say that "salvation cannot include growth, AND IS NO GUARANTEE OF ANY GROWTH."

Book, chapter, verse...please...

Anonymous said...

It's hard for me to believe that a Christian would say that salvation does not produce growth.
Hebrews 5:11 is a call to spiritual growth. We are not to be like babies only able to handle milk, we need to be able to be mature and on solid food of Word to we can have discernment and know right from wrong. Hebrews 6 - we must become mature in our understanding.
2 Peter 1 is about growing in the knowledge of God. As you grow you are able to escape the decadence all around you. We are called to apply God's promises in our life so we can have moral excellence, self control, patient endurance, Godliness.
We can't get those things if we do not grow.
I know a couple people who say they are Christians but have no interest in growth. In shows in what comes out of their mouth and how they act. Very worldly. The more we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ the less worldly become and more like Christ we become. To walk in the spirit instead of the flesh requires growth.
I cannot understand why a Christian would not want to grow and mature as the bible calls us to do.

Anonymous said...

It is such a false gospel to add growth to salvation. The person that does that, has to question their own salvation. They are never as grown as they could be. Hypocrites.

Anonymous said...

To anon nov.4 11:11 -When I hear a person declare that " just believing" is all there is to the Gospel it really bothers me.Do you have any idea how people abuse this.
I had a Landlord,who was a deacon in a church.He had lied about having very high levels of sewage in our water which lead to many people being ill.I had a serious ulcer for 3 years.Look up H,pylori,ulcers and sewage.I weighed less than 95 pounds for 3 years..I was in agony..Not to mention that my grandfather bleed out from an ulcer,and they held his funeral on my birthday when I was eleven..My point though is;he said to me that if I just "believed" in Jesus I would be happy(with his sewage damage situation).He was giving himself the liscense to sin,and harm others because he just "believed"..At that time I still considered myself catholic even though I didn't attend mass.So I just "believed"..I think you need to listen to the Holy spirit and not just your pastor...And Jesus..Believing implies,a lot more than what I'm quessing you think..And there is a lot of scripture to back that up to..I am not so ungenerous as to not write it out for you.I am just ill this week with the stomach flu;which I so easily get now that my stomach and health have been weakened.

Anonymous said...

Here is a link to a short balanced article on Lordship Salvation. http://www.equip.org/articles/understanding-the-lordship-salvation-controversy/ Pay special attention to paragraph #5. To debate theology is a good thing (Proverbs 27:17), but judging another persons salvation is just plain wrong unless you are God. - Don

Anonymous said...

My Dear anon, "It's a false gospel to add growth to salvation".

But growth is a natural result of being truly saved. You can't help it! Seeking Him = growth.

When you are born again you are a new creature. 2 Cor 5:17

You are changed and you are starting to grow to be like Christ. That's the whole point!

To grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18

When I see people claim Jesus but there's no growth - they still love the darkness, do self-destructive things, etc. There is no evidence of God's spirit in their life. No growth = no spirit of God.

When you seek Him, you cannot help but grow - it's just what happens.

He molds us and shapes us for His purpose.

If we are born again and there's no growth - we remain in the world, loving the world, acting like the world, continue to be ourselves - then we deny him by the way we live.

Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Growing and being obedient to Jesus and his teachings are just natural results of true salvation.

Where the spirit of the Lord is, that's where freedom is.
2 Corinthians 3:17

What a wonderful savior we have.

Anonymous said...

Jesus said to "just believe" (John 3:16). Paul also said to "just believe" (Acts 16:31). So I "just believe", and I KNOW that I will be in heaven, because Jesus died for me and rose again. I will not even attempt to pass the tests of the Pharisees here that are also themselves people that sin every single day.

Anonymous said...

Satan believes Jesus is God's son. The demons believe there is one God. James 2
They aren't going to heaven.

Jesus asks, Why do you call me Lord, Lord but
refuse to do what I say? Luke 6:46

Jesus says the one who obeys him is the one he and the Father make their home with.

the Pharisees were the ones that refused to obey Jesus' teachings.

John 14 - Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments

Jesus said the one who obeys him is the one He and the Father will reveal themselves to.

Jesus is the source of salvation to all who obey him. Hebrews 5:9

Jesus died on the cross for you - why don't you want to do his will?

That is the deciding factor.

Many will say to him on that day Lord , Lord and he will say I never knew you.

The one who does the will of the father is the one who will enter the kingdom of God.

Mathew 7

I am a wretched sinner. I pray that God will put in me a new heart, mold me into what He wants me to be so I will be acceptable to Him. So that I can do His will and not mine. I love Jesus and want to obey Him. How is that being a Pharisee?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon. John 3:16 and Acts 16:31 do not contain the word 'just'.

Twisting scripture is not helping you.

The only way to learn the truth about Jesus Christ and how to be saved is in the bible.

Rock stars and mega-church millionaires are not telling you the truth.

They are the false teachers - the ravenous wolves - that Jesus and Paul warn us about. Let no man deceive you.

Ephesians 5:6 says, "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient."

Listening to men will cause you to be deceived. Read your bible. When you obey Jesus Christ he gives you the Holy Spirit who will lead and guide you - into all truth.

Jesus says so in John 14:
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth"

If you don't love the truth, you will believe lies.
2 Thessalonians 2:11

Read your bible. All of it. Not just two verses.

Anonymous said...

It's an interesting thing that someone who claims to be saved will call bible believers Pharisees and hypocrites. That seems to be happening more and more lately.

Anonymous said...

Was not the very question of what one must do to be saved asked in the bible?

Acts 16:30-31 "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

The Philippian Jailer was saved with mere faith.

I would also add, that it does not matter, with regard to truth, if people abuse the word of God. The truth is not based off of who abuses it or not. People may abuse the truth.

Sure, there should be some growth, but how much? Is there a set point? Does everyone grow at the same rate? At what point does a measuring stick come out with regards to salvation and works? Is God a task master? Or is salvation really free? Is it really uncomplicated? Is it the "simplicity of Christ", or must we jump through hoops for eternal salvation?

I guess Peter lost his salvation when he denied Jesus three times. He didn't grow enough. David didn't grow enough either. They must have been apart of the world. The corinthian church was a very worldy church also. So much for their growth.


Anonymous said...

26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29 Then he [the jailer] called for a light, and SPRANG IN, AND CAME TREMBLING [convinced of the truth of Christ by everything he had heard and observed (the songs sung unto Him by Paul and Silas, the earthquake, and the fact that Paul and Silas remained in their cells expressing concern for him their jailor)], and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.-[Pay attention; very important here]- 32 AND THEY SPAKE UNTO HIM *THE WORD OF THE LORD*, and to all that were in his house.
[This was Paul and Silas, explaining Christ -- speaking Christ's words, explanations, teachings, commandments, promises...) -- And we would do well to understand that this was not a shallow momentary presentation of some watered-down gospel -- NO. But a conveyance of the depth of the truth and teachings of Jesus in a manner far above the "gospel of convenience" so prevalent today.

The previous commenter skipped over some crucial aspects to this passage in their rush to defend a "just believe in Jesus" gospel, leaving out a critically important - crucial - question: Believe WHAT exactly? Which this passage, when taken in totality, rather than part, refers to, in saying that, "they declared (or 'spake') unto him the word of the Lord."

And there are many other such examples of lifting the Gospel from its fuller context, its proper setting, and in so doing arriving at an incomplete and improper understanding of what scripture means when it speaks of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. (I plead with you here, all who read this.)

Anonymous said...

(Continuing) -

The greater context of a passage is essential to take in if we hope to arrive at a proper understanding of what it means to "BELIEVE" on the Lord Jesus Christ.

When the newly resurrected Jesus joined Himself to the two disciples walking the road to Emmaus (a distance of 7 mi, apprx), He spent His time explaining to them the prophetic scriptures, which covered considerable territory in the Old Testament. No abbreviated "sound-bite" teaching for them! He took full advantage of the long trek before them to FULLY ADDRESS and EXPLAIN the scriptures to them, and how Christ FULFILLED them! ("...beginning - BEGINNING - at Moses and the prophets...")

I realize I've mixed preaching the Gospel to those who are yet unsaved with Jesus' teaching His disciples, but there is wisdom overlapping here. When one carefully takes in ALL that the scripture puts forth in these events.

Sound-bite evangelism is not encouraged or so-demonstrated in the scriptures. This "Gospel age of convenience" would attempt to claim that no need exists for repentance due to the fact that in a certain number of cases the word or call to repentance does not accompany the call to "believe" in a particular scripture passage. But what is overlooked is the fact that it is IMPLIED. It may not always be spelled out, but it is in other ways demonstrated or implied. Those same passages, when observed in their entirety, demonstrate a repentant heart in those, for instance, asking, "What must I do to be saved?" It's either our shortened attention span, our modern penchant for abbreviating things, an absence of the Spirit of the Lord in us - or all three! that encourages this careless and haphazard approach to the scriptures and the subject of saving faith.

May God open our eyes to see ALL that is there in His word, skipping over none of it.

No more sound-bite, scaled-down presentations of the Gospel. It is destructive to our understanding -- and to the souls of men.

Anonymous said...

Therefore,my beloved,as you have always obeyed,so now,not only as in my presense but much more in my absence,work out your own salvation(websters dictionary-salvation,from salvare to save:a deliverence from the power and effects from sin.)with fear and trembling;for God is at work in you,Both TO Will and to work for his good pleasure.(Phil2:12-13)
Some people are not taking the whole counsel of God..

Anonymous said...

Nice comments anon.

Peter not saved? David didn't grow enough? Dear anon, I am so sorry, I see you do not understand.

I Corinthians 3 - Paul says to the Corinthians: "Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly."

They weren't growing. They weren't living by the spirit, they were stuck being worldly, and needed milk like infants. They could only understand the simple things of the gospel.

Hebrews 5:11 says, " We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil."

Growing in Christ will help you understand righteousness, right from wrong, you will know the truth.

So, after you are born again but you are not growing, you will not have discernment. You will not be able to understand what God is telling you in the bible.

Proverbs 2 tells you the benefits of God's wisdom.

Growth is unique to each person. That's between you and God. And up to you how much you grow - how much will you seek God? How hard will you long for his wisdom, insight, knowledge and understanding?

Do you love God's wisdom - Proverbs 8?

We are not perfect. David was a man after God's own heart. But he compromised and made terrible mistakes. But he was repentant.

When we are saved we are new creatures. This is the beginning of growth - if you seek God, seek to do his will, want to obey Him. This is not jumping through hoops. We do this because we love him. We do this because we ARE saved. I am so grateful for Jesus Christ saving me I want to obey Him, seek Him, have him mold me into what He wants. Again, what a wonderful savior we have.

Bible Believer said...

Last anon good post. I agree. Being born again is desiring to grow in the Lord. It comes with it. The false churches teach you are born again and then done. The other anon, I can tell they never taught the difference between salvation and sanctification via the Holy Spirit. This is why so few in the false churches examine themselves to see if they are in the faith!

Anonymous said...

BB - I do examine myself to see if I am in the faith on a regular basis.I pointed out Phil.2,because I agree,that you are not born again and then done.And if all the churches are false how am I supposed to get the perfect doctrine as you say.Why don't you explain it to me.
May God bless you and have mercy on you..
Suki

Bible Believer said...

The bible warns the churches will fall away in the last day Suki, so why do you expect a perfect doctrine from them?

Serious question.

Who is to be your teacher?

The Bible answers that..

the Holy Spirit. Not men in special out fits in fancy brick buildings.

Anonymous said...

I am born again and then done. I'm going to heaven, and nothing will change that. If some other person isn't sure about themselves, that's their problem. I'm sure for me, because Jesus died for me.

Jesus didn't die for demons, and so demons can't be saved anyway. It is a fictitious debater in James 2 that says that stupid statement about demons believing that God is one. James rebukes the debater. But the silly person in this thread sounds like the fictitious debater.

You can tell what a person believes about eternal life, based on their acceptance of Jesus alone, or Jesus plus works. Most of the people here add works, thus, they will fall into the trap of the antichrist when he comes.

Anonymous said...

I don't go to a church;I truly do know that the holy spirit is my teacher.I also know all the churches are apostate..It's you ,assuming I have false doctrine because I quoted something from the bible;in agreement with what you were saying.I think your misunderstanding what I originally intended in my post..Maybe I'm not as clear or well spoken as everyone else.It's hard to keep up.I may not be as smart ,or may not have been a christian as long as some.
And if you think I don't have perfect doctrine then why don't you set me straight with love and gentle correction instead of pride.What exactly is my doctrine in your opinion?You all talk about works salvation etc;but I'm doing my best.I'm starting to feel like posting is the work..Isn't your judging something about me I'm not sure you know about;well,just plain wrong.
In Christ -Suki

Anonymous said...

Also,I didn't see any remark to the poster who claimed he just got back from a wonderful church sermon and he emphatically said he just had to believe.I'm pretty sure he did not think he thought he had to have a desire to grow..
So,why are you attacking me?I've not seen this in you before?
Suki

Bible Believer said...

Saying someone is supposed to grow as a Christian is not adding works. You don't believe the Holy Spirit doesn't have anything to teach you once you are saved? Anyhow this is going round and round, closing down comments....