Monday, August 5, 2013

The Scattered Sheep Saga Continues....




Sigh...

I visited acouple churches recently after a few years of not even making the attempt. Some may ask "Why did you bother?"

I can go weeks and months without seeing another bible believing Christian in person. I am the only Christian in my household. My family of origin is not Christian and very unhappy I became one and I've had to depart from relationships where just for being who I am has earned mocking and censure. Does this mean I never have contact with anyone who is born again? No. There is certainly contact long distance and online. I run into born again people in various places even in secular places, though they are rarer, they are out there. One even prayed for me the other day. Problem is even most of those people are in the false evangelical churches or others though rarely one will speak of the ekklesia and God's true family. A couple of years passed by where I had nothing to do with churches or a search for one, though there was an occasional web search for a local house church. Would the good ones even advertise? Probably not.

You get a desire to JUST BE AROUND OTHER BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS IN PERSON, and well my disappointments are there. I have to pray about this. What am I doing? What am I not doing? Am I doing something wrong? Is God keeping me solitary to write this blog? Am I disobeying God to even TRY to find a body of believers anymore? I am responsible for what I know.  I even have thoughts like what if I get sick, there will be no local Christians to pray over me. Yes worrying can be sinful, I know. The answer there is to trust God too.  Will I grow old with absolutely no church family or fellow Christians around me? To me this seems very sad.  Does this mean bad fruits?

 Surely some of my other church-less readers have had those thoughts too. How many of you have done these searches? Maybe we just need to be flat out done with the church system, and my idealistic thoughts of there being a few hold-outs out there, needs to be re-examined. Maybe I got carried away with the fantasies of finding one good church. Some would say move! but that is not an option either at this time and not totally up to me.  Maybe I sinned in pondering the outcomes about what 7 years plus has meant for me in not having a community of believers that is local to pray with.

I went 30 miles away, which 60 miles round trip is a long way to go for a household with a very limited budget and one 10 year old plus car.  That's too far to really get to know a church family or have them involved with your day to day life. We visited this church knowing it may be a rare event ahead of time. This church was an independent fundamental church I found online. While the sermons were decent enough, and they used the KJV, this one while avoiding the worse aspects of Dominionism, still had that edge of gung-ho patriotism and "American is a free country" messages and Sword of the Word pamphlets.  One can't expect perfection among fallible human beings, but haven't they been paying attention to what has been happening?   But I digress, they were friendly and welcoming, the sermon was okay. But what was with all the beefy ushers [8 in all for a congregation of 150] standing for the entire service, like they were guarding the place? This place seemed "better" then the usual at least. It reminded me of my old IFB in many ways except for the weird ushers thing.

Then I went to a local church I found online. I took a chance, searching online to find out what the denomination was or wasn't even on their website, but could not find it and assumed they were an independent.The name of the church gave me no clue. They seemed more "conservative" and used the KJV and spoke of Bible prophecy in their newsletter. They were far out in the country, and I always thought with rural churches, there is more of a chance. It was a nice building, the people were friendly though most of the congregation was over 60, but then when I got inside I saw a sign and paperwork that had their denominational name on it. "General Baptist". {Oh no!}

This is one of the worse church visiting mistakes I've ever made, perhaps out of loneliness for fellowship, my brain imagined a nice countrified out of the way bible believing church and just got more of the same. Some may say why are you picking at that? Trust me doing the work I do here, I know all the denominations, the General Baptists are members of the World Baptist Alliance. The World Baptist Alliance is ecumenical and is the one that does dialogues with Rome. One of my foundational rules is NO ECUMENICAL CHURCHES. That cuts 99% of them out of the running. The cross and crown stained glass also gave me a warning.

We sat down for a short time and were polite but bowed out leaving as quickly as we could. That church used the KJV which around here that is rarer then the dodo bird , there was a mixture of traditional and contemporary songs up on a screen. His sermon protested other false churches but kept stressing, "You must go to church!".  The word church was used 20 times compared to the word Jesus. I've gone to "church" now two times in 4 years since I stopped visiting a Calvary Chapel which was for a short time. They also advanced tithing. This place seemed absolutely spiritually dead despite holding what would seem to get some decent aspects like the KJV use.

These were the only attempts in the last few years. Twice, but overall you see the similarities between the churches, everyone has the white and blue flag "Christian flag" including all the fundamentalists, the outgoing pastors, the hymns, the sermon, etc. Some churches are more lively then others. But as you know I pretty much question the whole church system more and more. The whole thing seems wrong. "Come out of her", maybe that means the ENTIRE THING?

I know too, I feel like I'm in a whole other place altogether, even if there are sincere Christians in some of the good fundamentalist churches, and I don't expect every person to be new world order aware or to know some of the things I do but the list of things I don't agree with has gotten longer over the years, the one-man preacher show--which even the ones with elders seem to hold to, the Rapture, celebrating of Christmas and Easter--99% of even the independents out there,  Christian Zionism--every place is pro-the secular nation of Israel, Dominionism, even that light ignorant gung-ho American patriotism and clinging to the Republican party you see in your average fundamentalist church that papers over a variety of evils like endless wars and the destruction of long-held freedoms and the burgeoning police state I find harder and harder to take. You find yourself sitting in the pew, asking yourself and God do I belong here? I'm not a Baptist, I never claimed the title even while in an IFB either after being newly saved.

One thing I may explore on this blog, is the baptist churches, who started the ana-baptist movement and why are they too in the majority joined at the hip with the fallen away churches? Yes sometimes I am directed to go new places. I have questions about this. Noticing the masonic markings in the false baptist denomination church made me ponder, given they are to be seen in a variety of other false churches and denominations.

Only thing is how does one go at it alone for so long? I've had God's help but I miss Christian fellowship so much. Some Christians I know in the church system here, ask me "Why don't you go to church?" and have told me it is bad for me to be at it alone. Some of these folks, I have told them the issues I have with the churches, the teachings of their own churches I do not agree with though, they know I see those who are truly born again as fellow members of the ekklesia. They are loving and kind people and usually say to me, "how can you give up Christian fellowship"? Due to other circumstances they know about me, they say a church family would do you so much good. And they are right, but how much can you compromise? God comes first.

2 Cor: 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Please share your own experiences or what you think. I am open to any prayerful advice here too. Please pray for me too.

See: Soul Winning and Scattered Sheep

79 comments:

Anonymous said...

BB, based on Hebrews 10:23-25, I have decided to find a church home. I have decided to go to a mennonite church because it is a non political environment and they are pretty straightforward with holy living.

Remember the parable of the woman with the leaven bread. Christ new that by the end of the age, all churches will have "leaven". Revelation 3:4 shows that God recognizes his true church is scattered amongst the corporate church body.

-JL

Anonymous said...

The best way to find balance (imo) is to remember that while we are to 'come out of her, My people' we can still fellowship and be a witness, even in a corrupt system.

I went several years without attending church, coming to grips with many of the topics discussed here. I still cannot find a church that does not have jesuit/masonic influence.

However, I have met christians at corrupt churches, and do like to fellowship from time to time.

I don't think I will ever be a "member" of a modern day church organization (nor do I think I will ever tithe). But I can fellowship & pray with others regardless.

I have a wife and daughter, and do point out extra-biblical opinions whenever they come from the pulpit. Some say "that's divisive"...my reply is "Christ IS divisive".

Anonymous said...

I spent years not attending any church, a few years ago is when that season stopped. I used to think like you do. I was avoiding all the error.

But the thing is, God wanted me in church. Now that I go, I can't imagine how I did without it.

Go to church. Every church has problems. Go to the church with the least problems. Pray for that church, that body, that pastor as well. Pray for them. Serve them, be of use to them. I feel to tell you this from the Lord. Do with it what you will.

Anonymous said...

http://www.voiceofelijah.org/reading.html

Try the first and the fourth articles.

God bless you!

Rena said...

We can so relate to every word you just wrote. We have been out of the church system (totally) for 6 years now. But we are starved for Christian fellowship. We continue to look on occasion for a place to worship and fellowship. We live within a 1 1/2 of KC and would be willing to drive up there every week if we thought there was a group of genuine believers. But we have been unable to find such a place and God has burdened our hearts with the intention of not compromising the truths that He has should us thru His word. Our families, though they consider them selves Christians some Baptist, Non-denom & Catholics, not one of them agrees with what we believe. such as some of the same things that you described, we no longer celebrate pagan holidays that have infiltrated the church, we can not stand with those who are ecumenical and we observe the Sabbath (Fri. evening to Sat. evening) in this we are very alone, we don't belong to any denomination or follow any practices regarding the Sabbath, this is something that we feel God has shown us, but hasn't brought us to completion on it as of yet. We don't follow the dietary laws so that puts us out of the Messianic groups, and I don't know if you feel this strongly or not, but while we will be respectful at any occasion, we will no longer recite the pledge of allegiance.
I try to keep in mind Elijah in 1Kings 19 & how he thought he was all alone, yet God has set aside a remnant of 7000. That's only 7000 out of all the children of Israel. If it is that the modern day church system has become like those that would bow to Baal, then we are part of the remnant that God has set aside for this day and this time. You may feel physically alone, but you are NOT alone in spirit, there are more of us out here!

HSMom said...

God bless you, sister, it's not hard to imagine what you're going through. I know it's rough finding a Bible-believing and living fellowship. When I commented on another post earlier, I did mention I'm a member of a conservative Mennonite church; I discerned that the Lord wanted me there, and I do appreciate the emphasis on holy living, separation, non-ecunemism, and brotherhood; we do look out for one another. No fellowship is perfect, though; the ladies' Sunday School class is becoming a place to promote the NIV. I don't feel the Lord leading me out now, I believe He wants me to stay. I have an unbelieving husband, and I know he'e watching. Some things are also hard to explain to my children, both the grown and the 10 year old, and sometimes I feel my back is against the wall. But Jesus won't desert us; keep the faith, Bible Believer, and you are doing a wonderful ministry with this blog, making many aware of deception. I thank God for you.

Anonymous said...

Your post is a reminds me of my dealings with the local churches in my area. I was saved in a country southern Baptist church when they still used the KJV. That is an important issue with me.
Tried the Independent Baptist because they still use the KJV, but they try to put you back under the law.
I found a country SBC in my area and drive about 40 miles round trip. I make it known about my differences in theology like the pre-trib rapture and a few other things. They haven't asked me to leave yet, but have shown an abundance of love. The preacher has even asked me to bring the message a few times. It has taken 14 years to find a church home and I really am blessed now. I hope you can find one also.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:

"Go to church. Every church has problems. Go to the church with the least problems. Pray for that church, that body, that pastor as well. Pray for them. Serve them, be of use to them. I feel to tell you this from the Lord. Do with it what you will."

Anybody who is serving those who are teaching false doctrine is bidding godspeed to them and is partaking of their deeds. The God of the Bible will never, ever lead one of his children to attend and serve a religious institution that teaches false doctrine. Period.

The reason one "attends church" is to have fellowship with those who have been called into the fellowship of Jesus Christ. "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor. 1:10

Paul was, of course, referring to the the strife in that church over baptisms and who was doing the baptisms but there is plenty of instruction for us in this passage too. The tired, worn out lie that is pumped ad nauseum through the church is that you have to go to church somewhere, even if you can't bid godspeed to the doctrines and everything else that is going on there.

According to this passage, you had better be in agreement when you gather together. You must have the same mind and the same judgment. If the pastor wants to celebrate Halloween (Satan's Day) and you are not in agreement with his judgment you better get out of that compromised institution, and fast. He can take his own punishment, but he can't take yours.


Anonymous said...

Hi BB- I would like your opinion on something. I've been going to a Calvary Chapel for about a year now, which is when I got saved. Now, I want to be clear that since that time I have become NWO aware and now believe that Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie, Chuck Missler (all rooted in Calvary Chapel) are "wolves in sheep's clothing". Not to mention Rick Warren, Francis Chan, and just about everyone on TBN. And growing up Catholic, no one is going to fool me by trying to draw me toward Rome, because I'm wise to that. Despite my relative Christian infancy,I have a very good grasp on biblical doctrine thanks to the work God has done in my life. Our church (congregation of about 150) is in a rural town of about 2,000 people I went to elementary school with the pastor. I have never heard any false teaching there and my wife who was an atheist prior to attending our church, even got saved by going there. So my question to you is do you feel it is dangerous to attend our little branch of Calvary Chapel despite the reasons I have listed and if so, for what reasons. I really do appreciate your honest take on this.

Mom2Boys said...

Here's the problem with the "just find a church and stop looking for perfection" angle.

I have young children who will be faced with trials, temptation, deception, and distractions. How am I to raise them in the ways of the Lord if I do not expose the truth?

How can I say "it is important for you to be here listening to this, but this is wrong, that is wrong, that is wrong..." Then what is the point of going? That is what a kid is going think, and that is going to plant seeds of doubt and confusion.

Now is the time where they need a strong foundation, and that is not going to come from Christmas specials, Easter plays, rapture stories, and political nonsense.

I have prayed about this issue because it is tough to explain why I do not GO to church. And my limited human mind tells me that I have to GO to church because I have to. However, I can't tune out the whisper in my ear that tells me that God is not a fan of puppet shows. Sitting in a pew listening to lies and half truths while exposing my kids to confusion is not the path of holiness.

And deep down I know that I am not going to just pretend so that I can appear to be a good little Christian who sits in a pew.

There are ways to meet other Christians that do not involve sitting in church lectures. I pray that the author of this blog is able to find some peace about the issue.

Leahlive said...

Hi BB, it's been a while. I have been completely uprooted from my home, my life, everything over the last 3+ mnths due to toxic mold and sewer back up in the basement of a house I was renting. I was not aware that my illnesses were due to this but left as soon as I was.

I have been without my like minded fellowship online as a result, as well as not having a church anymore. I know in my heart that God is separating the wheat from the tares. Jesus said that "He did not come to bring peace but came to bring a sword (division)".

I saw some stuff that made my head spin with the way other Christians treated me throughout this ordeal. Through the loneliness, through the dismay, I know that I am being taught how to discern and listen to the leading of the voice of Holy Spirit.

A time is coming, and soon from the looks of it, where the remnant will be lead alone by the voice of God, when to move, when to stay, when to run, when to trust. I am not trying to be cynical, just pointing out what I saw.

The message of the church is to love this world, to cling to the things of this world, to expect prosperity but not the biblical kind. Prosperity of the bible is knowledge and wisdom and discernment. You are prosperous in your walk. You have taught me so much.

I came back online when I was able, calling out the things I witnessed. Mentors, brothers and sisters, running to this tent meeting and that teaching, looking for gold dust on them, jerking in a Kundalini way and I am angry. Righteously angry. The church has failed. The people that took me here and took me there are the same telling me that I am going through trials and bringing judgement on myself and my family because God is judging me for speaking out against His anointed???

How in God's green earth is a Freemason posing as a Christian, one of Gods' anointed? There is a clear direct plan of the enemy that has long ago infiltrated the church and the people I looked up to are gladly, blindly following along. The bible states in the last days people will become willingly ignorant, which means dumb on purpose.

How many scriptures does it take for one to see that we were warned over and over again in the last days there would be false teachers and false prophets with a clear agenda? Joining does not beat them and you don't have to be there to pray for the church. I cannot go at all anymore and watch as the sheep won't even pick up a bible. They rely on the TV people and a pastor teaching once a week.

The pastor of the church I was going to when I first read your blog, posted a picture today of him and his family at Canada's Wonderland near Toronto. In the background is the roller coaster they had just rode. In huge letters above his head "LEVIATHAN"

Leahlive said...


Had it not been for you and other reading and learning of the wickedness planned for undiscerning sheeple, I would still be lost. God showed me and directed me to you and others, to the truth. If the church prefers to be a club and not warn of what is coming & going on right now, as stated above "A little leaven". I believe that scripture is to warn us not to allow that little leaven to corrupt us, as lonely as it is at times.

You are in my prayers. Be steadfast. As stated in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' last words, "only those that endure to the end will be saved". The rest are enjoying the prosperity message or just belonging to something. I know I sound harsh and I am praying to get past this anger. But it is righteous anger, watching the disappointment of getting saved at 41, realizing I had been lied to my entire life about Evolution, only to spend 5 yrs in the church then realize that the church has been lying to me as well. This is not what Jesus taught. He clearly states that John 15:13 No one has greater love, than to lay down his life for his friends.

That may be loneliness, that may be harshness coming against us for taking a stand and it can be the enemy trying to halt us at every turn.

Whatever you decide, know that you are not alone.

Blessings, Leahlive

Anonymous said...

Wow, the person at August 5, 6:30 pm must have perfect doctrine in every single area. That would be the only way they could say the condemning words that they do. Of course, they are not perfect in every area of doctrine, so they are self-condemned.

Anonymous said...

Here is a link to churches found on the indepedent baptist website by David Cloud. You can see the questions that he asks the churches on his quesitonaire before he recommends them.

He has listings by state.

You might not agree with everything in a church, like pre trib, but, no church is going to agree with you 100 percent.

So, this link might help.

http://www.wayoflife.org/directory/

Bible Believer said...

JL, I am glad you have found a church home, but I really hope it is an off-shoot Mennonite one, because the mainstream mennonite church, I see Mennonite listed on every ecumenical group I have researched and warned about. Of course your church may be independent, and teaching truth in that way. Are there true Christians within the churches? Yes I basically wrote that is true, but I think in my case God does hold me responsible for what I know.

Anonymous said...

Hi Bible Believer,

I agree with Anon from Aug 5 at 6:30.
I believe that going to a church with false teaching is condoning them and it's not healthy for us.

I haven't been to church in about 6 months now. A year and a half ago I stopped Calvary Chapel when they brought in Beth Moore studies and christian heavy metal and rap.

I went to the Baptist church by our house. They sang hymns and used the KJV, but then said we should vote for Romney and some other things that really bothered me. I started coming less and less and one dear lady said that I must come to church otherwise I am backsliding.

The last time I went to church was Easter sunrise service - never attended one. The Calvary Chapel pastor (who had his bodyguard up there with him) at the end had people come down if they wanted to receive Jesus and he then proclaimed that they were all saved! I asked my friend with me - if those people leave here and never seek God, seek to do His will - are they really saved? You just raise your hand and you are saved? That's it? The whole thing seemed so wrong.

It's very hard to feel so alone sometimes. I know more new age followers than bible believers. I have two bible believing friends, and I've been meeting with one once a week so we can encourage each other.

In talking to a few other people who go to church, they are all having basically the same problems - the church is political and man-centered, giving people a false sense of being saved.

Praying for you. Thank you for all your hard work.

BEB

Bible Believer said...

I agree we can fellowship and witness, per the above article, I do have contact with Christians in the church system. I talk to them about things I write here and more. It's not always easy because the pastors definitely can have far more influence. I cannot find a church free of jesuit or masonic influence--[plenty of them even mark themselves like this one on the stained glass]-that is a good way to sum up. When I wrote this article, I went to a SBC that was close to where I live, and thought well even if I disagree with the church on many things, maybe I can use this place to fellowship....[dinners, bible study] but everything remained under the control of the pastor and directed by him and the error was so complete. I also knew pretty immediately that what I had to talk about even one on one, was not welcomed. The lack of discernment was incredible as they even played "The Passion" there. This church actually was the focus of this article...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/03/silencing-dissent-in-pews-1.html

God basically told me "Get out!" The few times I was there, I saw deeper and deeper levels of error.

Then locally I have the IFB, the one where the pastor years ago said no one was allowed to criticize any sitting president and that would include Hilary. He is still there. He also on that Wed night yelled at his congregation for not obeying him. What do you do if you know in your gut, that the pastor is a deceiver and perhaps even a knowing one? You can't ignore that type of thing. This is the only IFB in decent driving distance. [to my reader who posted the listings, yes I've seen it] There are no other fundamentalist, independent or KJV churches here that are not hooked into the mainstream ecumenical system. On occasion, I would call to see if he had departed yet, but then you think about a church body that had been formed with such lack of discernment. I even tried to see if there was an independent bible study held there, but there is NONE held without the supervision of the pastor. That seems to be very common around here.

That is how I have been doing things meeting Christians where I can, fellowship and prayer in that way.

I am glad your wife and daughter are discerning and point out the extra-biblical opinions. You are right Christ is divisive.

Bible Believer said...

So Anon, you didn't go to church either but got led back in? Do you feel the Lord led you to specific church? How close is it to your beliefs? My choices here are pretty poor. [This is true of many areas of the country] Think about this blog, and my own obedience to God, obviously I cannot go to a church that is in the ecumenical Rome system, writing this blog, that cuts 99% of them out AUTOMATICALLY. Wouldn't I be a hypocrite to go to let's say an SBC down the street that is fully into the World Christian Movement or to the Dominionist Obey the government IFB when I warn about all those things on this blog? How about an Assembly of God or related ones when I warn about the falseness of the Pentecostal movement? :/ :/

I know you mean well, but trying to explain my situation here. And trust me in my case, I have gotten the idea, maybe I can find a church that isn't so bad, and help influence the place for good, but I've been in enough of them to know truth is not welcome. Even my Calvary Chapel experience, told me a lot that way.

Can you imagine me, being in some church like that? What if they discovered I wrote this blog? Do you see where I am coming from?

Then there is the issue of what God is telling me. Trust me I have felt some heartache entering some place, having God tell me you don't belong here. Even that church of this weekend, I had such high hopes when I thought it was a true independent.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Rena, sorry you are starved for Christian fellowship too. Sounds like you are in my boat occasionally looking. For me it's been an on and off thing too. I hope you can find a decent place within driving distance. You are right most will not believe. [sabbath keeping as you know I believe is by choice] and you are right you know that you cannot be with the ecumenical crowd either just like me. With the Messianic crowd, many of them are teaching false aspects of Hebrew Roots, being under the law, ecumenical ties, and worse. So yes even in that area, it is problematic.

I agree about the remnant. The ones refusing to bow down before Baal, you are right the BIble warns about the numbers there. I know there are other Christians in my boat, in that they do write me and let me know too, they are out of the churches, astounded by all the error. God bless you and your family.

Bible Believer said...

Anon, I would tell everyone to leave a Calvary Chapel church, why? As exposed here they are directly influenced and jesuit inspired in my opinion, they are definitely part of the ecumenical World Christian Movement via Rome--Lausanne etc. That is good is you have discerned all those false pastors and the NWO. If you know the pastor so well, maybe you should talk to him about the real deal with Calvary Chapel. Send him here, and go to the index. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but if he is a sincere guy, maybe he would rethink the dove status on his church. I hope he is not too entrenched into the Calvary Chapel pastor network. That said while you can explore that possibility, and this is all your decision, if it were me, I would definitely LEAVE.

I was in that Calvary Chapel for a short time and while on the surface for a short time, they seemed accepting of the issues I talked about, I could tell the pastor was growing more and more irate with me. The seduction can be subtle too. There are things especially those types can mislead Christians with. When They almost had me fooled with the Christian Zionism etc before God showed me the truth. All those false teachers, that most Calvary Chapelists are listening to from Missler to Fructenbaum are having an influence. So while the church may look good, your wife got saved there, the people are loving and friendly, the pastor may be preaching direct from the Bible, there can be major baggage that comes with it. When I walked out of the Calvary Chapel here, I lost several friends. It was not easy. I was new to the area too, and kind of devoid of friends, so having to do that at the time was not easy. I knew at the time God was directing me to begin this blog and warn about things regarding Calvary Chapel and other subjects. One thing Calvary Chapels will put incredible effort in appearing Bible believing on the surface but they can and will sneak a lot in with their teachings. Look at Missler and some of the teachers I have warned about, on the surface, they seem biblical and knowledgeable, but then they got a variety of "doctrines of demons" mixed in the stew. Calvary Chapel is too connected to TPTB, Jesuits, the "network", the Dominionism--think Boykin. Your church may be small and not getting direct contact with the various apostate speakers and NWO types, but they are there deceiving directly.

For me to stay in a Calvary Chapel would have been like staying Roman Catholic after learning the truth.

And trust me I know it's not easy to leave. Not at all. Entire social circles wiped out. Time spent with people getting to know them. Feeling like you are abandoning them. The often hopeless feeling of talking to people {I talked to something like 3 families in the Calvary Chapel church I left} knowing they will not agree or even if they do, will tell you things like, "we do not want to be alone out there with no fellowship, devoid of a church".

Bible Believer said...

Mom2boys, I am praying for peace about this issue too. Definitely. This week, I know I must pray about this in dealing with the emotional aspects even.

There are multiple problems with the "just find a church, and stop looking for perfection" angle from where I am sitting..

1. 99% of them are ecumenical. If you are in an ecumenical church that is part of the WCC, tied to the Vatican, World Christian Movement, etc etc, that to me is a direct sin against God. Most don't know it, but what if you do know? You sit there as a hypocrite and disobedient to God.

2. Yes with children, the matter changes. How does a parent explain, oh we are in this church even though they teach some falsehoods? So there the kids see the "splitting", the inconsistencies, some of the people of churches I left told me often, "We stay for the children, they need a moral foundation" but even there the parents knew some of the teachings were wrong. Many of these churches even while the parent sits in the more conservative pew, are teaching other things via the youth groups and more. How do you tell your child, globalism is being set up for Satan's kingdom when they go into their teenage years, but there they sat in youth group, being told to get collections for various UN-church team projects? There the false teachers and church folks can even direct them into future paths in life that serve the false churches. So if Mom and Dad are non-ecumenical and consider Roman Catholicism the harlot but the pastor or young group leader says Catholics are Christians too, you are right talk about sowing the seeds of doubt and confusion. Same for Christmas/Easter, if the church is having gift exchanges, and trees all over the place, and they go home and Mom and Dad don't celebrate it, that can sent up a break there, resentment, etc. The political nonsense, in every church I've been in, I've seen young people influenced, and here too you see how that can work out in a young life, join the military to "fight for freedom", when the church does endless flag waving and jingoistic displays and no one talks about what is really happening world wide.

Hey I understand the limited human mind thing, thinking "What kind of Christian is not in a church?", "Why am I out there alone?" It can be tough, but you are right if one is listening to the whisper of the HOly Spirit, saying GET OUT OF HERE, this place is full of falsehoods, or you feel that sinking feeling as you sit somewhere, what else can you do?

So much of the churches feel like showtime to me so I get what you mean by puppet shows and the lies and half truths. If you are sitting there, and the pastor is preaching and you are arguing with him in your head thinking AND WHY DON'T YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS VERSE, chances are you are in a false church and under a pastor lacking discernment.

I can't pretend either. One thing about the false churches too, they have their ways to SQUELCH you. Socially and otherwise, in false churches, they do not want you talking about deep things of the Lord. If I showed up even at 10 IFBs and passed out slips of paper with my blog address on it, and said Hey read my blog, 90% of them would be mortified. I've seen the reactions IRL trust me among Church Christians. This included even telling a missionary from my old IFB that Billy Graham was false. There was some fall-out from that, instant anger though oddly in that case the pastor was no supporter of Billy Graham.

I agree I do try to meet Christians in other places, that is what we all can do. We agree about a lot of what you have seen and I think with children, sitting in a false church and preaching other things to them will definitely confuse them.

Bible Believer said...

Leahlive, so sorry you have gone through that, I know toxic mold can be dangerous, and hope now you can heal and become well free of it. I will pray for you. I agree about the wheat and tares and the division. We are warned multiple times about false teachers.

2 Peter 2:1-3

King James Version (KJV)

2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

I am sorry you were treated badly by these other Christians, that is horrible. I think you definitely were seeing some bad fruits from a false church. That is not the fruit of Christians who are in a close walk with God. I am glad you are discerning and listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit. As we are going into the Last Days, I believe too, that the remnant will be directed by the Holy Spirit too.
That is the core point here for me, GO TO CHURCHES but if the Holy Spirit says, YOU DON'T BELONG here, what other choice do I have but to have nothing to do with the place no matter all the desires I have as a human being? Trust me even the desire for a church family or the social contacts within a church is very strong, I am not sure if I even described that, for me to obey, it did entail a pulling away, a giving up of things, that I wanted as a human being.

You are right about the message of the churches to be love this world, cling to the things of this world. One thing I think that happened to you, since you had this horrible mold and illness thing happen, basically what happened is the "HAVE THE BEST LIFE NOW" crowd...[you know I've written about that enough] basically were not compassionate to your needs or sharing as Christian brothers and sisters to comfort you, but unable to cope with someone facing hardships--after all "HAVE THE BEST LIFE NOW" teachings definitely lead people away from compassion, they all pushed you off instead as lacking faith, or "doing something to deserve it" even though the Bible tells us it rains on the just and unjust.

Add to that they see you calling out error and against a false pastor, and in their elevation of men, decide that you are the wrong one, and deserving of your fate for daring to speak out. Any church that pulls that "don't speak against the Lord's anointed" stuff for a pastor has already entered error. Putting their pastor on par with a biblical prophet. The arrogance and hubris alone, is horrid.

Bible Believer said...

continuing...

I feel like the churches alone are keeping people dumb on purpose. I think I wrote about this a long time ago. Oh I did...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/09/keeping-them-ignorant-in-pews.html

The false teachers do not want exploration. That is one thing too, when I visit churches, I can tell even in the "better" ones, its like they want me to sit there and be "spoon-fed". So much is under the pastors direction. The Bible makes it clear, that every Christian is to be PARTICIPATING.

NOTICE WHERE THIS SAYS EVERYONE OF YOU

1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

If one is a person that wants to be able to TALK about what they have learned from the Bible or how God has directed them, how can you do this in a church system where you sit there and are lectured for an hour and half every Sunday and then one thing the churches are moving away from is interactive Bible studies that are between members, even women's studies and moving to ones where it's basically another mini-lecture from the pastor with a little more feedback allowed. Even churches that let the other men of the church get up and preach are far rarer.

continuing...

Bible Believer said...


You are right in the last days we were warned of the great falling away. Agree with the statement joining them does not beat them. Trust me I know the idea of joining a less then perfect doctrine church, and trying to influence things for the better does not work today, the control of the pastors is so paramount.

That is interesting about that pastor taking a vacation with LEVIATHAN in the background. Probably a warning for you right there.

Too many of them are clubs. How many are warning? So few. I don't expect pastors to sound like Alex Jones in their sermons and say "the NWO sky is falling!" but when you NEVER HEAR any warnings about what is happening to society, or the world, or standing against evil, it wears on you. I'll give my old IFB pastor [now in another church in a different area of the state then the one I attended when newly saved] he did warn a bit, but he is an exception even to the IFB rule. As far as the rest are concerned, everything is fine and dandy in America! [and the world] America is free! America fights terrorists! They are so blind, I can't even believe it. You are right about the little leaven. As I wrote to the man in the Calvary Chapel above, some of these places, seem great and shining on the surface, pleasant, seeking truth. Even Calvary Chapel has fooled many by doing the faux battle against the Emergents while dancing around with endless NWO players and ecumenists but here the mixture of truth and lies can get plenty of people into trouble. I think your average IFB, where while there is more truth--KJV Bible reading, preaching of gospel, but what about those "smaller" matters of Christian Zionism, gung-ho Americanism, the Rapture--I have only been in one where they did not preach the Rapture and there he took the central position of Mid-Trib Rapture, and more. Aren't those things more set up for deception? I know the line for error can be hard to determine, and there is a commenter above, saying that those who desire perfect doctrine are taking things too far. Hey I know humans aren't perfect but one thing with the church system that is so insidious, even if you see things in the church system that aren't so good, how many churches allow members to speak out? How many of the dissenters are sent away packing or even after one warning or exhortation just told, oh that doesn't matter, you are taking that too serious. The first mode seems to be to conform to the group directed by the pastor rather then to conform to God.

Yes God knows as human beings we aren't perfect but doesn't God hold us responsible for what we know? Shouldn't the desire for truth be there?

Thanks for your prayers. I don't think you were harsh. One thing going against human beings, is most of us have the inherent desire to BELONG somewhere in life. The false churches use this to their advantage especially in a broken apart society. I sometimes have wondered how many KNOW in their hearts the church is teaching falsehoods, but stay silent to belong, to have friends to "not be alone". This is not biblical. Sadly this is one way the churches have grown more apostate.

I think it is righteous anger too. I know I am unhappy having watched all the nonsense, seeing the blank eyes in pews sitting there passively under the worse false teachings from apostate preachers.

Thanks Leahlive you have given me food for thought as well as everyone else who commented here.

Bible Believer said...

I agree with anon at Aug 5 6:30 too.

We are warned against false doctrines. Even knowing that human beings are imperfect, I know I've repeated this a lot but aren't we as individuals responsible for what we know before God? God is going to look differently as someone who knows nothing of the deceptions of Christian Zionism and Dominionism who may still have a heart to serve him sitting in a false church rather then someone like me who knows better because I have studied these issues and BEEN SHOWN.

There are verses about seeking PERFECT DOCTRINE in the Bible. I believe while we can give grace to the limitations of human beings, the main goal is to seek truth and perfection in that way.

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

It says right here we are to avoid people with different doctrine. Is not Dominionism a doctrine of sorts or Christian Zionism? Isn't the Rapture a doctrine?

So I think that poster is right, how can you bid godspeed to doctrines you KNOW are false?
Totally agree about the pastors celebrating Halloween, etc. It's true too what you say anon, that us being there we are CONDONING those things. That is why I brought up the issue above, of being a hypocrite. Doesn't that make a person a hypocrite to pour their life's energy and support into a church they know teaches false doctrine?

I know I am not perfect and other people are not perfect but there is a line of a "few human failings" where it means the line of endless unrepentant errors. Imagine going to your average IFB and even explaining the pretrib Rapture is false doctrine. What would be the response?
I am glad you got out of the Calvary Chapel with the false music and rest of the false teachings. I know my toleration for the avid support of the NWO and Republican party, police state etc, in Baptist churches has ebbed to NONE. A lot of the times these things are praised from the pulpits. Probably the majority of Baptist churches in the land told their people indirectly to avoid IRS censure to vote for Romney.

That is sad with the Calvary Chapel preacher telling people they were all saved, come on down, you are saved, like kind of on the Price is Right! sigh! Yes that easy believism stuff, misleads a lot. Say this prayer and you are automatically saved and they neglect to mention this should be part of sincere belief INSIDE a person where they truly are saved in Jesus Christ. It is wrong.

Like you I know more people who are new Agers or secularists then Christians. The "Christians" I know are fully entrenched into the church system, and even there, I know many entrenched into liturgical church systems. Most of my bible believing friends are long distance. The churches are political and man centered. You are right about that. And yes responsible for many false conversions to go with the false teachings.

Thanks so much for your support and thanks for your prayers too BEB.

Bible Believer said...

correction above means was meant to be MEETS...

Jeff said...

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:5-8)

Corrie ten Boom,
Do you know about her?

“Over a bowl of soup, I listened to this precious saint tell stories from her life. Her eyes filled with tears as I told her of my own family's suffering at the hands of "Christians" in Russia and during the Holocaust. And I'll never forget what she said to me: "You can't love Jesus without loving the Jewish people."

How I wish that my mother could have met with Corrie that day. I remember Mom saying, "All Christians hate Jews. Christians kill Jews." And it was true that people claiming to be Christians murdered her grandfather in Russia, burning him inside his synagogue as he observed the Sabbath. But how different her perspective would have been if she could have met with someone like Corrie and seen a different kind of Christian!”

Here is a link to a virtual tour with movie clips from the Hiding Place. I hadn’t seen this before so I thought I would share it.

Or copy and paste one of these,
http://tenboom.org/sign-up-page-c1023.php
http://tenboom.com/

Corrie ten Boom may have some theology and doctrine you don’t approve of today. Do you think it mattered to those who were saved by Jesus before they faced their death?

Kathy said...

A little background - I am a new Christian, being born again just 7 months ago. Though I am 60 years old and college educated, I confess that I have had to research and study vocabulary words! Honestly, I had no idea what words like these meant: antinomian, Apocrypha, Arminianism, Calvinism, Dispensationalism, ecumenical, ekklesia, jingoism, kabbalah, liturgical church, Messianic Jew, transubstantiation, Zionism, etc… I have a long list and I still have to refer to them.

As a child I went to Sunday school on occasion, and that was about the extent of my knowledge. Though my parents did always say they were Christians and that they regretted not being “church goers,” there was no sign of it in our home. I had a wonderful family, except for that one most important aspect.

So, now I am a Christian. I thirst for fellowship. Yes, I do. I do not watch TV, and haven’t for years. I would welcome it, if there was anything faith related that I could relate to. I cannot attend any of the local churches, simply because there are none that believe as I do. They all celebrate the pagan holidays, etc. I have been reading, studying, and praying – for hours and hours every day. My husband is now “interested.”

I live in Missouri, about 90 miles south of Kansas City. I guess maybe I am in the “Bible Belt.” I remember when we moved here (bought our retirement home here) from our lifelong home in Iowa, I said, “The only thing on the radio here is country music and gospel.” Funny now, because I try to find those radio channels, just to hear some word.

Yes, I do thirst for fellowship, but more, I thirst for more knowledge, more quickly. I have to research everything, so it takes me longer, to increase my knowledge. That is how I found this blog – researching. I now rely on it a lot. I read many hours a day. David Neal is my favorite author. I printed out his free e-books and articles.

We recently lost our oldest son. He was only 41 and died in his sleep. It was sudden and unexpected. I wondered if the Lord was testing me. As I am grieving, I do get comfort from God’s word. I pray for strength and comfort, and he provides it. I am so thankful. Yet, I would sure love fellowship.

Anonymous said...

Joy

Mom2Boys - thank you for your perspective. I wish I even knew what I should do. And BB, thanks again for your transparency and sharing your struggle with this issue. For about a year, we did not attend at all after moving to a new community. I researched, I asked everyone I met, but nothing seemed right at all. But, I live in a small mountain community and homeschool my children. We do not have children as neighbors, and now do not live near cousins. It's not so bad for my boys, because they have each other, but my daughter has no other girls, and really, no friends. We are not well off enough to get involved in sports or dance.

So, in the spring, my husband decided to start going to a church about once a month and sending the kids regularly to the children's weeknight program. I do not like the sermons, but I do like the lady in charge of the young children. She seems to honestly love Jesus and love the children. But yes, I feel weird and divided about it.

There is a reformed baptist group with lots of homeschool families, and I am so tempted to join that one for fellowship, but I know it is quite Dominionist and that we would eventually have to leave. And that would be even harder if the children had close friends and didn't understand. These are not easy decisions.

One good thing is that this year I read aloud to my children Genesis, Exodus, and Matthew, plus parts of other books. We also talked a lot, and looked at archeology and cultures. I want them to know it is REAL, not stories. I want them to have a real foundation, and I pray that they will be followers of Christ, and follow him, despite the cost.

Anonymous said...

Joy

To Kathy - I have been praying for you since I heard about your son in a comment some weeks back. I do not believe God caused your son to die or is testing you. I believe that bad, horrible, unfair, tragic stuff happens all the time in this world. Some of it is the work of the destroyer, some is just the bad stuff that happens in a fallen world. But God is good, and God is faithful, and when you are tested by life, God does not abandon you even if everyone else does.

I am so pleased that your husband is interested. I will pray for him, that life and business, or any accidental sin or attitudes from you or other Christians, will not distract him from learning about and being interested in Christ Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Jeff quoted Corrie Ten Boom:

"You can't love Jesus without loving the Jewish people."

I wonder what Texe Marrs would say about that! His assignment is to influence Christians to gasp in horror whenever they hear the word, "Jew" mentioned. The word, "Jew" is a trigger word in the End Game -- as Texe's buddy, Alex Jones calls it.

Rena said...

@ Kathy, you said you were about 90 miles south of KC, we live in Clinton, MO are you close to us? If so, perhaps we could meet for dinner or lunch sometime!

Kathy said...

Ahh, thank you, Joy! That means alot to me. (((hugs)))

I don't post alot, but I read everything here. I am still learning, so I don't have much pertinent input.

Speaking of fellowship, I did mention one other time, about having a forum. You know, folks that frequent here and a couple other blogs.....

Well, I did throw together a free forum. It is "private." No one can read it unless they are a member. I think that keeps out the spammers, pretty much. At least it would be some kind of fellowship for us!

If you are interested, here is the link. I will "approve" all that register, as this is the only place I have posted the link. http://biblebelievers.boards.net/

Kathy said...

Rena! Oh my gosh! We are only 70 miles apart! I am in Nevada, MO. Please click on my name and email me!

dontbefooled666 said...

I think, before feeling condemned for not meeting together in a church building, it is important to read the verse in context:

'Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins' (Heb. 10:23-26)

There are several things to consider about any church you would attend:

1. Do the people you are meeting with 'hold fast the profession of faith without wavering'? Are they truly repentant, converted Christians?
2. Do they 'provoke one another unto love and to good works'? Do they exhort one another?
3. Do they see the day approaching? Are they 'awake' to the times we are living in?

And what is the REASON we are exhorted to meet together and do all these things?

'For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins'

In order that we don't backslide! So add #4 to the list . . .

4. Is your attendance helping you, or others, not to backslide?

If you cannot answer 'yes' to all these questions, then you are wasting your time. God has a specific reason for us to meet together (which, incidentally, CAN be done 'in the spirit' via the internet). If we are not accomplishing God's purposes . . . not being directed by the SPIRIT to attend . . . then we are walking in the flesh and the results will not be good.

Yes, it is difficult at times. I too have been out of church for several years. But I believe that this is simply a 'season' that too will pass. There is a purpose for it, and I trust the Lord to lead me/us out of it, just as He led us into it. In the meantime, lets continue to be the best stewards of the unique opportunities we have at this time.

You might want to apply the same questions to the work you do through this blog. I think, if you are honest with yourself, you will see that you are fulfilling the spirit of the exhortation in Hebrews 10. Many of us whom the Lord has led out of the churches are doing the very same thing: informing others through blog sites and Facebook pages. Coincidence or Holy Spirit leading?

Sometimes you just have to rebuke the condemnation and loneliness, in Jesus' name. The enemy tries in many ways to lead us astray.

Bible Believer said...

Was Carrie Ten Boom saved? I don't know. My biggest concerns about her was the lack of discernment regarding ecumenical teachers etc. Remember I have always written there's a few saved grandmas out there who love Billy Graham. Hopefully they will come to know the truth.

As I have written here many times, there are many within the church system who ARE SAVED, but in a different place of being shown things. Some of course are not listening and obeying while others are moving along in discipleship.

As for loving Jewish people I think we are to love ALL PEOPLE. God is no respecter of persons and we shouldn't be either, but that said, anyone who hates Jewish people is suspect, because the Christian gospel is not about hate, and well Jesus was born as a Jew in Israel. Christian Zionism is full of deception.

Remember even false teachers can spout some truth that God can use for good. I heard stuff from Hagee {a totally false teacher} that had me question and study some issues WHILE still in the Catholic church.

I don't know much about Corrie Ten Boom except seeing her name mentioned on some ecumenical websites or ones exposing the same. I do know in Catholic circles she is popular but was NOT a Catholic. The teachers she was involved with is a MAJOR concern to me. But what did she know? She was an elderly lady. God would know her culpability or why the discernment about Khulman was not there.

Perhaps I should watch or read the Hiding Place.

I found this video...[major hand sign from Khulman at the start]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZTd2b6kzc0


Anonymous said...

I felt lead to tell you to turn to
1 corinthians 13 and read it.I don't really know how or if it will help,i just felt lead to say it.
I'm sorry for your loneliness.
This is the first time I have ever posted a comment on any blog ever..

Anonymous said...

I felt really lead to tell you to read 1corinthians 13.I don't know why or if it will help.I'm sorry about your loneliness.
This is the first time I have ever posted a comment on any blog ever.

Bible Believer said...

Kathy, I will pray for you and your family, losing a son so young would be so tragic. I will pray God comforts you during this time.

One thing with the complex vocabulary words, one thing to remember about me, I was born again in 2002, and while my head was full of Catholic vocabulary words, that entire list you just typed, I had no idea what any of those words meant save for ecumenical and transubstantiation and ecumenical because only because I had been reading Catholic Trad Websites before leaving the RCC. I didn't know what Pre-Trib or Preterism or any of it was. I definitely had my own period of time that was an intense learning period, where I studied, research and read the Bible everyday.

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Of course with the learning, God knows everyone's capabilities though I believe the Holy Spirit will warn a truly saved Christian against something or a false teacher even if they do not know the exact intellectual and other reasons. I knew nothing about Calvinism, absolutely nothing until a few years ago, but I didn't run off to a Calvinist church, because something felt "wrong" with it. Same for many other areas. We all have areas we do not have knowledge in.

I understand the thirst for fellowship and it helps me reading others who do too, and who have faced not being able to be in any of their local churches or fellowships. I am glad your husband is "interested", that is a good sign. Keep talking with him and praying. Due to his grief too, he may be seeing his need for the Lord now too.

With your son, I will keep praying. So sorry he died in his sleep. Sadly many younger people can die of aneurysms or heart problems or even undiagnosed sleep apneas. It is tragic beyond words. At this sort of time, I know it has to be hard not to have any local Christian especially in your time of grief. Last year I had to turn to God since I had a few friends die in a short period of time, I know this is nothing like losing a child, but grief definitely can be one of those times, where one is crying out to God. If you ever need to write me, please do so.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Joy for your words to Kathy, glad you live closer to one another. I agree about life on this earth, there are bad things that happen to everyone, not based on their own sin but the sin and evil that came into the world from Adam And Eve and so on. As I have written too many blame the victims of tragedy of having 'done' something to deserve it or God sending it to them when really these things are the outcome of this fallen world. God will stand by Kathy and has stood by many of the rest of us in enduring the things of this world, and the grief and incredible losses. I know missing someone is so hard. One day there, gone the next, it can feel like a punch in the stomach, but God will be there for you and help you in continuing on and remind you of eternity with Him. Our time here is so short.

I pray too your husband comes to salvation. Pray for mine too.

Bible Believer said...

Texe and all the rest who hate Jewish people or hold them as "responsible" for all the evil in the world are NOT in a good place spiritually whatsoever!

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/04/those-who-want-you-to-blame-jews.html

I agree about his assignment.

Sadly I do believe because of Jesus being born as a Jew here on earth, that the NWO, Luciferian world does specially target the Jewish people. That is the only thing that makes sense to me as to why there is so much emphasis, on hating this group of people though of course hate is a evil human sin happening between many groups.

Bible Believer said...

Mom2boys, I understand you wanting your children to have some Christian contact. That makes sense. I do think it can be a hard line to traverse finding places to meet Christians or a good and safe area for them to be. Human beings are social animals after all, and better they have some good Christian contacts then none at all. It is good the lady that runs it seems to be a sincere Christian. Maybe explain to your children if they are old enough your misgivings about the churches and while you are keeping separate from the services etc. With homeschool groups, I wrote about how the Dominionists have worked on them quite a bit. They definitely are there with their false teachings, so that really is a shame.
Even with homechurches and other places you think would be "independent" there definitely is an incursion. Years earlier I looked for home churches too, but only found a seventh day adventist influenced one and one that was hyper-Hebrew Roots.

Thanks for your comments about me being open about this struggle. It is not easy. Even when I write this there can be some of my detractors who may write, "Look at her, she can't even find fellow Christians who believe like her", if it was not for those warnings in the BIble about these times, and where we would be scattered, I know our confusion would be worse, but Jesus warned us!

It looks like you asked around too quite a bit, and I was in that place, I know in smaller communities the choices can be fewer too though sometimes being rural can be an asset, I have been hearing even in those areas, it's growing more and more difficult to find a decent church.

That is great you are reading the Bible to your children and teaching them about history, archeology and cultures. You are setting up a good foundation for them most definitely. God bless :)

Bible Believer said...

I agree about taking that verse in context. Nothing about meeting under a building or are you submitting to a pastor?

Assembling today could even mean talking and praying with a Christian on the phone.[and yes even the internet. :)]

Those are all good questions and great points, good ones to even ask if someone is church.

You are right about this simply being for a season. I am trying my best to make use of this time too. I have considered that even the time to do a blog like this one, would have been more difficult, such as the time I was active in my first IFB.


Agree about the exhortation.

Are we there for each other? Are we praying? Warning about the times? Discerning?

Here we know many of the churches if anything are WORKING against those things!

Agree about rebuking the loneliness and feelings of condemnation. A person must always put God first, not social acceptance, not wishing to run for loneliness etc.

Jeff said...

Ya know BB, it doesn't speak well of you to spread disinformation about someone you admit you know nothing about. Just hearsay and yet nothing slows your pen?

"Trust me" are your words repeated multiple times, yet without evidence to back up the claims?

Some would call this gossip. Shame on you!

go to duckduckgo search engine.
enter this:

site:galatiansfour.blogspot.com "trust me"

A saved person would indeed put themselves in harms way for another.

the Dutch Christian ten Boom family risked and gave their lives for these people, not for money, but for love of Christ and those people.

Visible fruit Bible Believer!

Instead of defining who you are by what you are not: perhaps it is time for you to be defined by who Christ is.

Salvation is found at the foot of the Cross, in humble adoration in repentance and faith. --Not hammering crosses into the hearts of vampires.

You really should at least investigate who she is.
tenboom.com

I asked a simple question. I didn't bring up any other doctrines. Why does this bother you so much?

As smart and discerning as you think you are, you will fail against the devil every time. You only have a single hope. The Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; (Ephesians 6:10-18)

Anonymous said...

dontbefooled666, I agree with all of your points, however there is one thing you are missing. An internet world can never replace real face to face fellowship.

I know people by their first and last name at my church. We can help those who are hungry and sick. We can pray together, anoint the sick, partake in communion, and encourage one another.

Lets be honest, if I asked you for money over the internet, you would be lest than thrilled to help due to the large amounts of fraud committed. The internet provides some fellowship, but was never designed to replace face to face fellowship. I didn't mean to make anyone feel condemned. I was just pointing out why "I" have decided to find a church home.

JL

Anonymous said...

Hi BB,

I'm a regular reader of your blog and post comments occasionally as Anon.

I fully understand your struggle with feeling alone and wanting Christian fellowship. I have struggled with the same issue for some time now.
I have cried many times in prayer to God asking him to lead me to a church because I feel so all alone sometimes.

I feel overwhelmingly unevenly yoked a lot. I work in a secular job and I am also the only one in my family that is a believer.

I have searched hours, upon hours and listened to hours of online sermons from local churches in attempts to find one I could feel comfortable going to but there are none. I have had many thoughts about even starting my own bible study but I think I would be the only one in attendance.

I've struggled with the question of how much leaven..because Scripture says that a little leaven leaven's the whole lump---which means it permeates throughout. Meaning... a little error can permeate and change one's thinking and understanding.

Galatians 5:5-9 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 7. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8. This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Also, looking for a solid church home is not the same as rejecting church and fellow believers. In other words, our desire is to be with true believers who desire to live for Christ and weigh things to the Word of God, but we are not willing to compromise with junk doctrine just to have fellowship, which, I think, is a good thing.

I think many are content to be spoonfed pewsitters and never get past being babes..never pick up their cross and find what God wants them to do ..everything becomes tied to the building, the inner group etc. Missing is that each of us is called to share Christ, and the equipping of the saints is something that is done to help each arrive at what God has called each to. It's not to be a lifetime of equipping--we are to become equipped to serve Christ and share the gospel, and do what God wants each to do, which I believe you are doing, BB. :)

This is fellowship. I think we are doing church right now on your blog.

Jesus said,

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I pray for you often.

Anonymous said...

I tried a local church this week. The first week I just listened, the second week I spoke up when they started teaching works salvation. Then I was gone. I remembered why I had resolved to not even try anymore. Then I thought about starting my own bible studies. But I do not feel qualified to lead, yet I don't see anyone more qualified. I think I have this general attitude about alot of things in life. So perhaps you should take the lead. And start your own bible studies. I would go. Alot of stuff I know and want to talk about, I can't trust people to tell them. I test people out, and see where they are at. No one is attentive. Everyone is so busy thinking what they are gonna say next, I know they are not going to listen to me. I feel like I have some things to share, but no one to listen. I'm praying the Lord would send me some fellowship too.
http://southwesternbiblestudies.wordpress.com/

Anonymous said...

I tried to post a comment I dont think it went through. That is interesting and a good article. I had decided that I would not be able to find a church to attend. I gave it another try this sunday. They were teaching works salvation, and no salvation without baptism. And that baptism and being born again meant the same thing. So on the most important issue, they were wrong. So I left.
I don't think I would have gotten along with them anyways. They had a very sanctimonious republican feel about them. And I am single. So church is always family environment and that is something that Is great, but I also need to be able to relate to people.
I was thinking about leading a bible study. I wanna take the lead role, because I can't find any fellowship where I can just sit back.
I liked the comment about no need to go to see a puppet show. Its all very superficial to me, most churches nowadays. Alot based on emotional feelings.
http://southwesternbiblestudies.wordpress.com/

ED said...

Bible Believer, what is hard for me is that I was brought up AG,then our mother pulled us out of organized religion, and home taught us.That was some 50 yrs ago. I am a musician who has traveled playing for evangelists and such, for many years. I walked away from the church system long ago.But for the last 10 yrs have been playing in an SBC church. Have tried to talked to people about the NWO system and such, but am basically told to stay quiet about such things, and just continue to play music. I love worshipping the Lord thru my talents that the Lord has given me, but it is getting harder and harder to go to church each week. I feel that sometimes all that I can offer to the Lord are my talents in music, so I stay. It gets very frustrating, And I told my wife , we are getting ready (choir) for Christmas, and that I don't think I could go thru another Christmas presentation.I have tried to step down twice as a musician, but the church keeps asking me to come back. Basically stay quite and play the music, but keep quiet on your opinions of everything else. Thank you very ,very much for your blog site. It has been a real strength to me. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Bible Believer said...

Jeff I gave the lady the benefit of the doubt so why are you upset?

You know I've been studying the ecumenical movement for years.

So why do I see Carrie Ten Boom's name all over the place when I see the ecumenical teachers?

Where was her discernment?

Where did I write that I knew she was not born again?

I find myself hoping she was just an elderly lady that got deceived by the snakes, but it took me 2 seconds when seeing Kathyrn Khulman speak for the first time, to know she was a deceiver.

She is popular in Catholic circles too. Why?

I am glad she saved Jewish people but that does not mean she was born again automatically. People can do good works even in false religions.

You want to know how many false religionists on this board have given me the line you define yourself by what you are not.

What is wrong with that? The Bible warns against MANY THINGS.

Scripture tells me we are to expose false teachers and works.

Looks like no "Christians" around Connie Ten Boom, tried to warn her about the vampires, like Kathyrn Khulman.

Sadly many take your advice, saying it's too NEGATIVE to call out the false teachers.

Many are led to a false christ via the vampires too.

Bible Believer said...

JL, I understand. Face to face contact is best. This definitely is not an easy decision, we all have to do what the Lord allows us to do. In my case, if I found a church where I was not being warned to depart by the Holy Spirit, then that would be different. I wanted all the ones I visited to work out. There is a big void in not having a church family. Remember I had one for 6 year or so after I was born again in my old IFB, people to visit and pray with, dinners, biblical discussions and studies. Yes I know what I am missing out on big time. There is part of me that wanted all those things back so desperately, I could have ignored what God was telling me. Even with the SBC I visited, the one with the covenants etc, it was close to where I live, very convienent, very close knit church but not too big. I would have had instant friends there and social connections. As I wrote above pulling away from all these places always included some pain and sacrifice except in the most spiritually dead ones. Just make sure that God is okay with where you are at. I feel like my old IFB with the sincere pastor was good. I openly voiced warnings there about the NWO and against Dominionism and while not everyone was on the same page with those items, the difference was I could speak out. Sadly that church has closed down, since the pastor moved to another position and my old community was so adversely economically impacted.

I don't feel condemned by what you have written you have given me food for thought. It is not easy going solo, and as the years pass by, it can be even tougher. I wish everyone here could have a church family. I definitely blossomed having one early in my Christian life.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Anon, sorry you have struggled too. I have prayed many times the same way. I have done extensive searches, even trying to use google to search for home churches or mention of home churches on blogs, etc, one time I found an independent in a small town around 15-20 miles away but they were charismatic and taught very false things. A lot of disappointments piled up, and not just small matters but large ones.
I understand the unevenly yoked thing too, thanks for telling me, that way I feel less alone. There are so few Christians around me, and Bible believing Christians on the same page are exceptionally rare. There were more in my old rural community but even there their numbers were few. I am the sole one in my family.

Like you I've done extensive searches, internet, alternative internet searchs, asking around--found a house church there that sadly turned out be SDA inspired....I have listened to sermons online and more. I led someone to the Lord a few years ago, and wanted to do a Bible study but they were "too busy" so starting a Bible study can be tough, so yes I probably would the only one showing up too. When that young man asked me where should he go to church? I didn't know what to say though I told him what to be careful of.

I've struggled too with how much leaven as well. One thinks to themselves, "I am not perfect, so how can I expect a perfect church, but even there how much can we bear?" What if God tells you there is something wrong with all of the churches where you "do not feel right". Even there one has to pray to make sure they are listening to God.


I agree that the search for a solid church home is different from rejecting fellow believers. I take every person as an individual even those tied to the church system. Are they born again, then we are brothers and sisters despite what brick building they show up at every Sunday.

I agree too many just want to be spoonfed, that is why so few ask any questions in church. I know even in my old IFB I was very outspoken. I have seen that so rarely in churches I have visited. Everything becomes about the church instead of about God. I have seen the pastors themselves with that mentality. [Agree about fellowship and church on the blog too--while face to face is different and probably better in some ways, I had the thought, in a face to face church setting, there are so few that talk about these deeper issues.

Thanks so much and thanks for your prayers and God bless you. Thanks for posting Matt 18:20.

Bible Believer said...

Hi anon who tried the local church, yes sometimes it takes acouple visits to see where a place is coming from. I am sorry they taught a false gospel. I've seen that too. One thing I have noticed is the number of churches around here that will dismiss witnessing and the great commission. Pray to God about leading your own bible studies. I know that one is hard, I did try that for a time. It's not as easy to bring people together as you would think. I may be too shy IRL to pull it off, the best way but if the Lord paves the way and brings people I would be more then willing. One thing I have been convicted about is I need to go do more witnessing IRL but out there, what will I say when the folks ask well where do I go to church?

I have tested folks out at churches. I try to start conversations about things, and no one is near where I am at. LOL The most mild things can offend, that is one thing I have noticed. Not shouting at anyone about the NWO or anything like that, but mild Christian things, perhaps talking about bible prophecy, Matt 24, etc. While I was listened too at my good IFB, that was a rare experience. In the churches, I feel like the leadership want everyone in the pews to be silent and one can feel that pressure. You do not feel free to speak out, it's hard to explain. The pastors in so many places I have been have such an elevated role. The way the church system is set up, everyone looks to the pastor for all the truth, so anyone speaking about what they have learned in the Bible and more its automatically suspect, and that bothers me. I have felt totally repressed in some of these places, like I was walking on eggshells just being who I am. LOL back to that line about what if they found out I wrote this blog?

Thanks for the link, looks like there are interesting articles there.

Was thinking about this verse too.

Acts 4:32-35 (King James Version)


King James Version (KJV)

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Maybe we know when we go into a place if we are of the same heart and soul with people. The Holy Spirit would show us. The far away IFB I visited I felt it with some people in the pews, but NOT the pastor. Of course there are individuals here and there in various places but I guess you will see what I mean.

Finding a sincere pastor seems to be a giant problem. Too many are "showmen", even in the fundamentalist churches, concerned with position and getting the numbers.

With a couple of the churches, free of the pastors, I may have stayed. Does that surprise anyone?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/01/odd-conversations-with-pastors.html


Bible Believer said...

That has to be hard to be a musician in a SBC, and then worry about pulling away.I am sorry they have told you to be quiet, and understand your desire to use your talents. I will pray for you. Perhaps God is telling you it is time to depart, and that process is getting started since you say it is harder and harder to go to church every week. I think you could offer your talents in music another way, but definitely will pray for you. That is one thing about being out of the church system, a feeling closed off. Like you are outside the door, but remember all born again people are the true church, the ekklesia.

Do your beliefs about Christmas match mine? The Christmas thing was always tough for me. In my old IFB, there were some that believed the way I did about Christmas but others did not and I know the pastor celebrated it. We did not have church on Christmas, nor many decorations so it was very UNDERSTATED, but overall finding a Christian church that is not Jehovah Witness [and they have endless errors like denying that Jesus Christ is God] it is very hard to find one that does not cling to the false holidays. This is something I had given charity on, figuring most did NOT KNOW, and I knew the day I read Jer 10, and then started studying....but you wonder why don't any of the preachers know? If I read enough Bible to figure it out 2 years after I was saved how do the pastors explain it. Many get carried away by culture too, not wanting to "deny" their kids or leave them out. {I think one should obey God here first}

That has to be a hard position to be in, loved for your music abilities but they do not want you to speak out about anything. One thing I discovered in false churches such as when I was in Calvary Chapel, some individuals seeking after truth--well if you have some there, will desire to talk to you and want to examine things but many will not. They will want you to be silent. I am the type, and I am a more shy woman if you ever met me IRL, my writing is better then my speaking skills, I got the drift in many churches, they wanted me to keep my mouth shut, and I wasn't preaching in church, I am talking socialization one on one conversations. One SBC man was upset when I told him I believed the churches were falling away. Even if you describe being an ex-Catholic and leaving that false gospel behind, the offended eyes will meet your face! It's not PC to say that the Catholic church is NOT Christian or preaches a false gospel, and I was far away from getting started on any NWO stuff or even using the word HARLOT.

Oh so I understand. I think God may be nudging you to leave a church where you can't speak out. I had to leave many I had visited knowing I did not belong. I always had the thought with acouple they'd be tossing me out the door, pretty quick, even if I did not leave of my own volition.

One thing about bad pastors, if you are a born again Christian, and they are "knowing" or wicked deceivers, their demons will tell them you are there. You will anger them just being in the room. Even if you stay quiet. I do not think the few times this happened it was my imagination but I have been literally GLARED AT. This happened one time with the false pastor I got up close to who I noticed was wearing a masonic ring at a SBC I had visited. That church stuck to the old hymns and KJV too.

In your case them already telling you to be silent, tells me they do want you for your good music talent, but do not want you for what you believe, already they are making it known you are not of the same mind together. Already they are seeking to SILENCE you, as a "POTENTIAL TROUBLEMAKER." Trust me I have been there, not with sharing any musical gifts, but you can feel it in the room.

God bless you and thanks for your encouragement.

Bible Believer said...

One other point if God does not want you in a church and the Holy Spirit tells you to leave, you must do so. Even if this means being without a church. I believe more Christians are going to be in this place. I am praying for everyone. I know it is not easy.

Acts 5:29 KJV Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said , We ought to obey God rather than men.

ed kreft said...

BB,
You ask me if I agree with you on the Christmas issue. I whole heartily agree with you. I have always had a troubling in my spirit regarding this holiday as well as Easter. The feeling of the way it is being celebrated nowdays is just unreal. I really started learning about these holidays from your blogsite and Fanatic for Jesus site. (To bad she shutdown her site). In all my years in the music ministry, I have always studied the topics that are available on this site. But I must say that I have a better understanding now. I agree with one of the earlier bloggers, it's too bad that we all couldn't meet or something. May God richly bless you in all you are doing for the Lord.

Anonymous said...

BB,

You are right to say that you must obey God. Remember the email I sent you a while ago...that was my signal to leave that church. It is better to fellowship at home than to be deceived with the masses.

-JL

Steve said...

Jeff @ August 7, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Lord, have I not done mighty works in Your Name? Cast out devils in your name?

Then the Lord said "depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you"

There are many people, greater in name than Corrie, headed for hell.

This isn't a comfortable topic for Christians...we like to think our 'works' can win us brownie points with God.

There are so very many people who do mighty good works (jesuits, free masons, etc.) who will die never knowing Christ. In spite of all their worldly accomplishments, they will be told to depart from the presence of God.

Jeff said...

Hey it looks like Jesus had a soft spot for someone(s)…

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? (Matt 9:10-11)

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. (Matt 11:19)

And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. (Mark 2:15)

And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? (Mark 2:16)

But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? (Luke 5:30)

The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! (Luke 7:34)

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. (Luke 15:1)

Why do we go (or want to go) to church?
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all. (Mark 9:35)

And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. (Mark 10:44)

Here is a valuable lesson to consider about the why of “going to church”. It starts a few verses before and goes on, I will make the next verse a link so you can read it in context or find it if the link doesn’t work (Luke 10:25-37)
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? (Luke 10:29)

Here is a thought, have you been down to the local mission for the homeless to try church? How about a prison ministry? I know when I was in jail, I really appreciated those who came to share the Gospel with me there. How about the hospital or convalescent/nursing/assisted living home churches?

Yeah, you’re going to find some really messed up theology and demonic stuff in those places, hurting and lost people in pews are still hurting and lost too.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. (1 John 4:4)

I find it telling when someone tells another to get out of dodge (church) before the bad guys try and silence them from the pulpit.

Right here BB is where you questioned Corrie ten Boom’s salvation, and that without any evidence, only gossip.

Anonymous said...

ed kreft wrote:

"I really started learning about these holidays from your blogsite and Fanatic for Jesus site. (To bad she shutdown her site)."

Fanatic For Jesus' site is still up. Check over on the right side of her blog and click on a topic.

Ed said...

Thanks for the info. Greatly appreciate it.

Steve said...

Jeff - August 8, 2013 at 3:48 PM said...

"Right here BB is where you questioned Corrie ten Boom’s salvation"

On the contrary, the specific quote was: "Was Carrie Ten Boom saved? I don't know."

Unless you are God Jeff, you don't know either.

I don't know if you are a mason, jesuit, or other fraternal brother...but I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone else...

Great architect followers are the nicest most generous people you will ever meet on this planet. Their theology, however, is poison to your soul.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof is death.

Jeff said...

Thanks Steve,
Yes according to what the Bible clearly says, the ten Boom family certainly matches the Sheep mentioned here.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:30-46, KJB)

Just because there is all of this fruit demonstrated, and just because Corrie and her family literally gave their lives to see others SAVED by sharing Christ with them as prisoners themselves, is no reason to think they themselves were actually saved. What is the Gospel they preached and lived?

The reason a true Christian does produce good fruit is BECAUSE they come from (already been done past tense reason for) the Good Tree (The Lord Jesus Christ physical in the flesh died buried and resurrected being made sin for us the we are made righteous only because of and in Him by faith -Eph 2).

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:15-23, KJB)

Just because Kathyrn Khulman INTERVIEWED Corrie ten Boom (to add credibility to her own self most likely as do the others), does not mean Corrie agreed 100%, but God used the ten Boom family and used Corrie to witness in places no one else could. Her message is Christ.
(2 Corinthians 10:5, KJB)

Anonymous said...

1 : You're not alone : Our Father is always in command... Surely it's better for us to be "alone" or "out"
2 : you're not alone : we are many, many, around the world in your situation (and many are in worse situation) so, do not worry ...we are praying for each other too

I suggest you to ... go into your room to pray and beg Him for help, we won't make it by ourselves

.....and stop worrying about Paul's statement to not to leave "church" (he was a Pharisee, he never met Christ...and you know what did Christ said about the Pharisees...)

Catherine said...

Did you do a post about the 1000 year Kingdom and whether it is literal or not? I was reading an old post and noticed you discussing this topic. I'm not sure what to believe about this, so am interested in your views. Many thanks.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon on August 10, 2013 at 3:20 AM

You are wrong.

Paul met Jesus on his way to Damacus. Jesus chose a pharisee to the greatest work in the Kingdom of God. Let us not underestimate what God can do in any man's life.

eric le debonnaire said...

This is THE church the assembly the city the mount we surely must not forsake : [Hebrews 12:22-24]

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

we do not have permanent cities in this world. If we loose sight of the One who calls us from Heaven and the things above our inheritance of which we have the Earnest deposit, then we are forsaking our gathering and it does not matter much then if we gather locally or not.
Fellowship is a blessing when there is this focus , this sight and the walk that goes with the sight.

the Hebrews were warned to persevere to walk by faith and perseverence to the end in the sure promise oath and accomplishment of God's Covenant.

Anonymous said...

It's so hard to have a kid in this world when you don't go to church. I stopped going almost a year ago. I read the Bible to my daughter and we discuss the stories, the importance of trusting in Jesus and striving to do his will, etc.
But the pull of the world is so strong and things just seem to be getting darker. We went to Barnes and Noble today. They have a whole 'teen paranormal romance' section - you know the whole humans in love with vampires and all that. The 7 - 12 y.o. section is mostly paranormal, mystical, magical, underworld stuff. She made a new friend at her daycare this summer who is into all this dark art - deviant art, it's called. I checked out the website. Lots of dark depressing stuff. My husband is not a Christian so he doesn't always see any harm in things. Sometimes I get really angry over this stuff being shoved in our faces everywhere and I feel an oppression from it. And then I just have to go to God's word.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ed,

I am sorry. You were correct. Donna is no longer posting on her blog, Fanatic For Jesus but you can read her writings elsewhere:

"No longer posting on this blog. Please feel free to look around. You can find my new work at Kindred Spirits Sisters and The Communitarian Trap."


See this page:

http://fanaticforjesus.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

told you so ...
Scott Johnson protecting incestuous pedophile ... link

http://lighthousebaptistchapel.com/tag/scott-johnson/

Bible Believer said...

Thank you Steve for pointing out my exact quote...

"On the contrary, the specific quote was: "Was Carrie Ten Boom saved? I don't know."

Unless you are God Jeff, you don't know either."

I totally agree.

What I would like to ask Jeff, is if he was there, would he had warned Carrie about Kathyrn Khulman or would we have heard more of the how dare you judge "scripts"?

And Steve you're right about all those "great architect followers" with their endless charities.

Why should outward good works impress anyone, given even the great harlot RCC boasts of theirs to the world?
There are nonbelievers who do good works.

Oh come on, are you telling me Jeff that if Kathyrn Khulman was still alive, a Christian should go on her show? I guess that goes along with deceiver Hal Lindsey making those endless excuses for being on TBN.


Bible Believer said...

Catherine, I do not believe in a millennial "kingdom" on earth to come...

Here is an article about this...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/03/do-you-believe-in-millennial-kingdom.html

When I wrote this, I was exploring the issue.

Today I don't believe in it. Nope not at all.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks anon, I agree we are not alone.

I am more coming to the conclusion that a parting of ways from the church system as a whole, is where things are going. I can't be where God doesn't want me.

I couldn't get over the fact that even the fundamentalist churches fly the same "Christian flag" as the United Methodists and Episcopalians. A clue as it were...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/07/is-this-flag-in-your-church.html

Revelation 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

There are many coming out of or out of the church system. You are right about that.

I am not anti-Paul, be careful of those who will tell you that Paul is a false teacher thusly removing several NT books of the Bible.

Bible Believer said...

Hi anon, yes I know with children it's hard. I would explain to them why the family does not go to church according to what they are old enough to understand, it's best to let them know, so some false Christians don't get their hooks in them and one day tell them their family was "rebellious" for not going to church. I'll pray for you. Keep reading the Bible to your daughter.

The teen books are awful. I even have gone to the youth section of my library and it's like they want to indoctrinate them all to be fascinated with the paranormal and turn them into little witches. I notice how there are no books on Christianity and tons on Wicca, magic, and the rest. How come librarians are always so liberal? Just something I've noticed. I've seen the book store stuff too.

The art world is crazy too. I recently had to depart from a local community art center, see story here.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/07/snares-that-can-be-out-there.html

So much of the art world looks channeled especially among the young. Mind control symbols, skulls, one eyes pop up everywhere. I've seen Deviant Art and one called Juxtapoz which is no better. The sickest, nastiest themes appear over and over in the art. WARNING IF YOU TO GO THIS LINK--

http://www.juxtapoz.com/

One thing, if one is a Christian and more conservative even, the art world is not that friendly of a place. The art shows have grown more degenerate. Sickening themes and full blown indoctrination into a vast array of NWO themes. I believe top artists are part of the "network" too. Even our local art museum did a show with overt Hindu themes. I'll never see one there with Christian themes outside of what they think is Christian like Roman Catholicism etc.

I always keep promising myself to do an article on art, how it has degenerated from a focus on beauty to what you see today. Understand about your husband it's tough. They see the world so completely different.

It does get to the point where you do feel oppressed by it. I have to pray and run to God's Word too to cope with it all.

Bible Believer said...


"told you so ...
Scott Johnson protecting incestuous pedophile ... link

http://lighthousebaptistchapel.com/tag/scott-johnson/"

Whose Ed Watson?

I don't know what to think, I wish some of these folks wrote their blogs more conscisely and got to the basics quick instead of deluging us with information and minor arguments line by line. I don't know who to believe or not to believe, to be frank with you.

http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/Ed-Watson-Warning-Separating-Truth-From-Lies.pdf

Scott Johnson's side of this...

I'm already on the fence with him because of the Nephilim thing. I don't really like anyone who protects molesters, think Catholic church protecting all of theirs. Whose lying whose not?'

Also when I see two go head to head, I've seen too many of these weird kind of "fights". They get so convoluted that outsiders don't even know what is going on though there are supposed court documents on there. I can't make heads or tails of it to be frank. Their articles on this on both sides are such a mess, I'm confused.

I did look up to see if Johnson had dealings with Slattery.

Yes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX8IxXoG2KY

This is weird [is THIS HIS WIFE?] has been on FOCUS ON THE FAMILY RADIO SHOWS..

[if this is the same guy and this is his wife]

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:IgLB5Qkx-zUJ:www.focusonthefamily.com/radio%3FID%3D%257B44246149-505B-4D80-8A68-0EB19D5DA6CF%257D+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

Doesn't Scott Johnson warn against FOCUS ON THE FAMILY?

Is this Mike Slattery's [being interviewd in this article?] wife?

http://www.kimberlywagner.org/?p=850

Too many faux Christian "network" ties for me....seriously.....

False teaching too by the way..

"Sexual intimacy between a husband and a wife is the primary metaphor that the Bible uses to express God’s desire for His people and their holiness. Every time a husband and wife have sex, they have the opportunity to celebrate God’s passion for His church and to share in His holiness.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christian marriages are too shackled by wounds, guilt, and lies to even consider that their sexual intimacy is a form of worshipping the Lord."

Sex is worshipping the Lord????!!!!!

No....

By the way I have come to conclusion the IFBs are VERY INFILTRATED. VERY.



FaithGuy3 said...

Sorry I'm late to this discussion, thought I would answer the last post...

Ed Watson - BEWARE of this guy - 4 years ago, I listened to him regularly, and he gave a lot of heretical sermons like "You CAN lose your salvation"(obviously, scripture says otherwise. And if it is the case that we can lose our salvation, then Jesus Christ shedding his blood on the cross for our sins was worthless).

He also ran a little ministry compound, where there were stories of abuse up there. Thankfully, no one got hurt, but the stories that came out of there were absolutely brutal. All Scott did in that audio exposing Ed Watson was read off a bunch of phone text messages, emails, etc from victims up there. The reason Watson is mad at Scott was b/c Scott declined his invitation to go up to his ministry in Virginia. Again, please listen to that audio sermon.

Watson has been notorious for befriending Christians, and then ultimately stabbing them in the back. He did that with other non-501c3/KJV Christians in Florida like Pastor Sam Adams(whose sermons are on sermonaudio.com), and even went as far as slandering Adams' daughter publicly.

Who is Lisa Harper from that Focus on the Family link posted? Is this Mike Slattery's wife? Yes, I am familiar with Slattery.

As for that Youtube link posted on a video to be made exposing the 501c3 system - the author of that video admitted he put Scott's name on there by accident, and Scott has no connections with that video.

As for Scott himself - no, I don't put trust in any man, but I like listening to audio sermons nonetheless, and his is the first one I listen to to start the week. Although I have a few reservations, his audio sermons are very good.

Next on my list is Bryan Denlinger(his youtube channel is husky394xp). I highly recommend him too. Greg Miller from Worthington, Ohio is pretty good too.

As for the Nephelim stuff - personally I believe they are out there. But whether you do or don't believe it, it's fine with me. "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

Anonymous said...

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." - Hebrew 10:25

God wants us in Church even when the days are getting dark. He always has a special people who has not bowed theirs knees to Baal (and I say that in the most un-Calvinistic way possible).

Kathy said...

The word "church" in our Scriptures has been mistranlated from the word "ekklesia" which means "called out ones", not the church system that man has created.

We do not need to go to a church building, one made with human hands to worship our LORD. We can meet anywhere, "Where two or three are gathered in My Name, there I am also" says our LORD Jesus Christ. This can be anywhere where the "called out ones" are....in the home, or out in the public arena where we meet....can we not pray and exhort one another at a grocery store? Yes. And frankly, I have not had one coversation in the church system about Jesus Christ and the wonders of His ministry. We usually gossip, I mean, talk about this one or that one, usually in a negative way, then are nice to their face when they approach us.

How many people in our "church buildings" are truly born again of the Spirit of God?

Anonymous said...

Hello, I know this is an older post, but I am new to your blog. There is a lot of interesting content here.
You say you are not baptist, yet it sounds like your beliefs are closest to that of independent Baptist, is that correct? Besides their use of KJV, what are any other reasons for visiting/choosing independent Baptist as opposed to say non-denominational churches or other gospel preaching churches that do not use the KJV? I ask this out of curiosity and as someone who "came out" of an independent fundamental Baptist upbringing. Yes, I use "came out" like I would a cult, for that is what I believe most IFB churches are.
No church is going to be perfect, as I am sure you know, because they are made up of imperfect people. Yet I find the hypocrisies in IFB churches to be unbearable. Yet the Lord does command us:  "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
We should not pick and choose which verses we follow or expect others to follow. You see, none of us are blameless, but clearly we should come together as a church body. I know how you feel, I got so tired of the lies being told in church, and there was a time when I didn't go at all. Thankfully, I have found a good church that preaches the gospel and, yes, they do celebrate Easter by singing resurrection songs, but Paul told the Corinthians not to be superstitious about eating meat that had been sacrificed to an idol. Not everything the pagans do is wrong. Having feasts and giving gifts is not wrong. It is the reason for doing it that makes it right or wrong. I don't know whether or not you wear a wedding ring, but while it has it's origin in pagan practices, I think most people would agree that it is not the appearance of evil or paganism to wear a wedding ring today. We must remember to rightfully divide the Word. That's just my 2 cents.