Saturday, July 13, 2013

False Churches Breed Spiritual Confusion

I saw this on the website, Calvary Chapel Abuse:

Calvary Chapel abuse for those who do not know is the website of Alex Grenier who was abused by a his stepfather who was a Calvary Chapel pastor. He has bravely exposed those things but I wanted to respond to this particular post of his.

Voices In My Head 6/21/13: Slogging through the morass of Political, Business and Religious [BS]…with nuclear-powered hip waders


What is disturbing is how he seems to be led to a rejection of God's Word. Sadly this happens with many who have faced abuse within religious circles and spiritual abuse. What he has written is nothing new to me.  I have people now I witness to all the time where I am trying to lead them to separate the wickedness of their so called religious parents, pastors and authorities, from the holiness of God. 

Sadly this is the fruits of false churches, false leaders and worse. Deceivers destroy faith and lead people away from God. False religious leaders certainly almost led me to die in my sins, I went UU after all after seeing the hypocrisy and false teachings of the Catholic church where I was just as lost, making a lateral move that save for the Holy Spirit would have led me to hell itself.

The sad thing is these representatives lead to the lost of faith, the falling away, the questioning of the core foundations of Christianity, which usually for most who start turning their back on the Christian world usually focuses on God's Word where they start mentioning "inconsistencies", and being buried in "history" where there are plenty of false versions of it to confuse. The cacophony of liars leads so many to not listen to the Holy Spirit and to walk away from God.

I am not surprised he brings up the malfeasance of our growing totalitarian government, corrupt business, bankers and more. One mistake people make is, they see the corruption of this world, and yes it is bad, and I have exposed enough of it myself, and then see the corruption of the religious system--equally bad, but then turn around and then assume God is part of all this, instead of these folks being the ENEMIES of GOD and the servants of SATAN and then walk away.

I don't mind him testing and seeking, but where he is at can be a giant trap that could lead him to rejection of Christianity or what many think is Christianity all together.

You can't build faith on competing histories or traditions, you start doing that, and you will be so bogged down in confusion, you won't get anywhere. So when he starts talking about the history of "fundamentalists" and how they lack an "authentic tradition and belief system" right there is the talk that leads one right out the Christian door. Fundamentalist is actually a term I use less for myself because I know it is bogged down with the Dominionist baggage. There too define yourself according to God, this is why I am more apt to use "Bible Believing Christian" as a self describer.

Already he is going down the Bible is " contradictory" road. I guess I got that one over with when I was in the UU, and actually owned a "freethought" set of books, that had all the supposed Bible "contradictions" in it. However the more I studied, the more I saw it come together and the meaning behind what the Bible had in it and of course the Holy Spirit taught me later after salvation. One thing I'd like to say to him don't get bogged down in the history or the different competing groups of the church system, read the Bible for yourself and pray.

So many look at the fighting camps of the church system, and their immediate conclusion is "It's all bunk!". That one IFB pastor who fell away definitely came to atheism via that route. Base your faith on the Rock, Jesus Christ, not on which denominational label you wish to smack on yourself or others. The church system is full of deceptions. We were warned. I don't even tell anyone I am a Baptist anymore either, because Baptist can define everything from Jimmy Carter to Bill Clinton. Of course here rejecting dispensationalism and a few other teachings, here puts me in a different place. I may worship with a few Bible believing "Baptists" who some would define of the fundamentalist ilk, but what I care about most is if someone is born again. Most Baptist churches have fallen away with the rest of the church system.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

I notice he mentions the "early church", remember that verse about the grievous wolves coming in very EARLY: right at the start. Don't get bogged down in the early church stuff unless you are reading the Bible to test them by and dismiss them one by one. There too competing histories confuse and the competing Alexandrian school, would be Greek Philosophers, Origen's and Eusebius's pals, all have plenty of confusion to dish out. I spent something like 3 years reading the "early church fathers" and realizing how many of them simply CONTRADICTED SCRIPTURE. This was time I spent talking to Catholics as I came out of the Catholic church on message boards. Talk about a bunch of brain-freezing,  dull, heavy on the false authority and false sacraments rhetoric.....

Sadly one can see him buying into the deceptions about the Bible being written "late" and not put together until far later. A lie I am quite familiar with out of Rome where they teach priests to argue about who "really" authored the gospels. Just more advance statements of "Hath God Said?".

Note to Alex too. Constantine was not a Christian. He was a deceiver and one of the avenues where the Catholic church began, marriage of church and state. Those councils? Don't buy into Catholic history and false early church deceivers. I don't care about the Council of Carthage, or the rest, or what false leader of the past made "official". I am sure some will say this is anti-intellectual, anti-historical, etc, but God's Word stands on it's own, not on the words of human rulers who already make the rules or are the "winners of history". Calvary Chapel being ecumenical inherently and I believe a false set-up is neglecting to teach the basics about Rome and it's false history and more which has infused the church system even the Protestant system.

1 Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].

So NO, Alex, my granddaddy was NOT MARTIN LUTHER, I am not a Protestant either. Luther was from the start a Catholic priest that only unloaded some of the baggage not all. Here one sees the bogging down where history and debates about genealogy lead. And sure some will claim those with faith outside of these "systems" are from the "hills" or Appalachia". Romans 13, the authorities to be obeyed are not "human authorities" but God. That's one passage where one definitely needs to learn the Bible in it's entirety, not twisted by false preachers who use it to tell people to blindly obey.

When he talks about the "30,000" denominations" I heard that canard so often from Catholics on Christian message boards, no one even took the time to check the number. It's high, it's one of those false statistics, and per the above, it doesn't matter. If one is centered on Jesus Christ and truly born again and following God's Word, the names on the door are moot. That one anyhow comes right out of the Catholic propaganda department in trying to shame those pesky PROTESTANTS. Interesting even the name PROTEST-ANT, is a word defined by the Catholic church itself.

I'll answer his question here:

"If you are a Christian Fundamentalist/Literalist/Conservative….what historical Tradition are you appealing to? How do you defend your Literalist approach? What part of the “Church” and Church History are you looking back to and claiming?"


I wonder if that would surprise him.

Make history the center of your "faith" and well that is a path to falsehood immediately.

I minored in history in college, and well, "history" is fallible. The Howard Zinns even in recent American history do not match so called "conservative" historians. Much of "history" today even is impacted by social movements and ideologies. Ok now taking thousands of years of "history" and think to yourself how 50 years of American recent history has been CHANGED via various sides, and make your own conclusions.

His reading of the Bible, and problems with it, sound like problems I had during my early days of reading the Bible when I wasn't even a Christian. When the Bible is not taken as a whole and one is not listening to the Holy Spirit, it can seem confusing, especially if you have a history of false teachers adding to the confusion, this applied to me in the Catholic church and of course later before I was saved.

I am sorry to see someone getting bogged down like this but these are traps many are familiar with. I hope he reads what I have to say here. We should have empathy for the confusion, that his false spiritual teachers have wrought, but I hope he proceeds with a desire for the truth and avoids the pitfalls that can come to those who have faced false religious teachers and abuse within a religious system that calls itself Christian.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Anonymous said...

False teachers did enter in immediately, and that is why Paul warned about it. "History" is garbage. "Church fathers" are garbage. Only the Bible is true.

Alex has derailed, and lost all credibility. His departing from the Bible, means that nothing he says, will reach the ears of people like me that believe the Bible. His words become the rantings of an unbeliever.

So that brings up the question, was this rejection of Scripture ALWAYS in him, and he just hid it for the sake of diplomacy? Or, is it a fleshy emotional reaction to association with abuse?

Either way, he cannot be trusted.

Bible Believer said...

Was Alex ever born again? I always found his theology off. I don't know if he has ever claimed a testimony or not. I guess you can tell what I think the dismissal of God's Word means. I do see him as a non-believer that happened to be raised in a church, lots of people fit that category. I do think we can tell of his love for "church history" and other false beliefs, how poor of a job Calvary Chapel is doing with the truth, obviously considering his step-father's fruits and abuse, he didn't hear much truth from that pulpit either. To me he is a young man now rejecting what he thinks Christianity is--in response to his abuse. Hey certainly I relate in my own youthful breakaway from the Catholic church but overall to me the rejection of scripture doesn't mean anything good. I pray he is an honest seeker and finds true faith in God, and does not let Calvary Chapel destroy it.

Bible Believer said...

I did post a link to this article right under his article, I don't know if he will approve the comment but the link to this post was given to him.

Anonymous said...

"I do see him as a non-believer that happened to be raised in a church, lots of people fit that category"

If he never believed it all, then yes, that is what happened. Matthew 7:21-23. "Lord, Lord, was I not raised in a church?"

FaithGuy3 said...

As much as I hate to say it, most pastors today are BLIND.

Personally, for years and years, I'll admit that while I wasn't much grounded in the word of God(was either reading an NIV, some "popular Christian" book, or some daily "devotional"), just something FELT wrong whenever I would hear these pastors preach. But nonetheless it was as if we were conditioned to believe that these pastors were put there by God, who went to these wonderful "seminaries", so they can't do any wrong, so therefore we "can't touch God's anointed".

However, when the Lord showed me his true word, the KJV, he really opened my eyes to a lot of these deceptions, and true salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ to boot. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, per se, but nonetheless yes, they are BLIND. Honestly, I don't think they try to twist scripture on purpose, as they seem to not have much of an understanding to begin with.

It's come to a point now where they're embracing pagan practices time contemplative prayer, which is partly modeled after Hinduism practices.

Also, IMHO, I feel the youth that go to these churches have fallen away later in life partly b/c while they are taught(and conditioned) to believe everyone in the pews are to be held accountable, at the same time they themselves are taught to NEVER question the pastor and other church leaders(b/c that would be "judging"). Pt being that even the youth can FEEL the arrogance and wrong behaviors coming out of these pastors, and would end up feeling a bit upset - ie, double-standards would make anyone feel this way.

Galatians_5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Bible Believer said...

I agree anon, if he never believed, then you are right, that is what happened. His thoughts about the Bible are the SAME I had as an UNBELIEVER, before I kept studying and was then later born again with the exception that I knew I had been taught adulterated history coming out of a Catholic school system and suddenly being introduced some of the real "secular" facts about the Reformation in high school.

Bible Believer said...


They are BLIND and at worse knowing deceivers. A guy showing the fruits of abusing his kids, well guess what camp he probably is in. I agree with you, about feeling something wrong with the preachers preaching, I certainly visited enough churches with friends and when the priests at Catholic church always did their "homilies" was ready to nod off and noticed how they always seemed far more extremely "liberal" then the Catholic congregations. Even when I was in my decent IFB church, that pastor's preaching was good, but they would have guest preachers that gave me serious uneasy feelings. Too many in the church system have been taught to depend on the pastors, and that they supposedly are more "special", "learned" etc, for going to seminary which in most cases the seminaries really have influenced them more and more into deception. From what I could tell in Calvary Chapel, they followed the same MO as the rest of the church system. I remember even saying to some members there, the pastor was WRONG when he said witnessing was offensive, and told I "took it wrong", too many are eager to defend the most egregious false teachings.

Praise God your eyes were opened and you were able to read a KJV and become truely saved.

I agree the majority of them are BLIND, and at worse many of them are knowing deceivers or in the pulpit for money, control, and power.

Matthew 15:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

One can tell many lack understanding and if you listen to a preacher that is not preaching at the bidding of the Holy Spirit, for many it's a SHOW, they almost are copying what they think the "style" should be. This is why they are okay with pagan practices and embracing the various NWO political causes.

I agree about the young people falling away, they are trained to put these pastors on a pedestal, and when they realize they have clay feet or even in this case, realize and face the depth of EVIL, sadly they blame what they think is "Christianity". There is so much lost faith out there due to the wolves and their evil deeds. They are trained never to "judge" and to never question the man who is elevated above all. This causes confusion when they know something isn't right with these men or in this case see the evil deeds on a daily basis. Add to that blind and enabling congregations and the formula is set for spiritual destruction.

Thanks for posting that verse.

Definitely undo the yoke of bondage, and it's just not the priests and Popes putting it on people but their emulators who stick to the Moses Model, the Shepherd movement and any church where the pastor is elevated above all the rest.

Kayfabe said...

Yeah Alex is beating the same drum and to be honest I have moved on from even reading his blog anymore. I truly believe he is doing his wife and kids a disservice by not moving on from what he went thru. I also went thru some crazy stuff but at some point you have to take responsibility for your spirituality and actions. As a man with a family you now have to be there for them and not be living in the past, even the bible tells us that. His questioning of things isn't even interesting and its quite frankly boring as watching paint dry as he says the same things the same way.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Kayfabe, I only read the blog only rarely now. I think Alex needs to part ways from his wicked relatives, and have nothing to do with them anymore [not to keep contact via fighting etc] Trying to call a evil-doer most likely reprobate to account is a waste of time if they have a seared conscience. If he has his own family too especially with his own children, yes he needs to focus on them and protect his children from any of his errant relatives [no contact]

Also with the Calvary Chapel stuff, while I definitely warn about them here, writing letters to wicked leaders of false religious organizations like Calvary Chapel and expecting some real or truthful answers, is like me writing a letter to the Pope, telling him you are antichrist and expecting a tearful apology.

I can understand it taking time to heal from the crazy stuff too, trust me on that, but you are right at some point you have to move on. There are too many indoctrinated to stick with people for far too long simply because they share DNA with them or a "history" of sorts, and abusers always keep abusing.

There is no choice. That means departing from the wicked. I worry about his desire to seek recourse via the wicked, it's never going to happen. Sociopaths, narcissists, the "seared", the non repentant over years and years, are never going to suddenly sprout tears one day and start crying and apologizing. In this case too his step-father has a whole apostate network protecting him.

Others including me a couple times have warned him about the false Calvary Chapel system but I suppose that is something one needs the teaching of the Holy Spirit on to "get", sadly he looks like he is stumbling around with the other false religionists.

He has a family so hope for the future in that and focusing on his own children, who he should make the top priority to protect from the wicked.

Anonymous said...

Dear BB, I know Bill Clinton has previously claimed to be a baptist but his underlying message, deliberately mysterious, may mean baptised into the RC 'church'. Bill was instructed by a swarm of jesuits at Georgetown Uni, Wash. D.C. There are is also photographic evidence of Bill receiving the eucharist from an RC priest.

Anonymous said...

Btw, I am not a baptist either. I am a Bible believing Christian as you yourself have also rightly stated.

Bible Believer said...

Sure Bill Clinton definitely has big time Catholic connections. In my book, he's another elite luciferian, the claims of being a "baptist" is just more "cover religion" stuff.

Anonymous said...

How sad for this young man to be so filled with anger towards The Lord. His so called Theological thinking brings him down to the lowest level of spirituality where he sees nothing but "emptiness " of soul and spirit.

I remember a time when I went through a long period of ?ing and doubting because of all the different teaching and all of the different churches of which I attended during the beginning years of searching. Suddenly one day I decided to take the approach of child like faith. I didn't ask who was right or wrong anymore. I simply stuck to scripture and if I didn't understand what I read I just trusted The Lord would answer it in time as I grew in Him.

He also appears to be very analytical which is a huge drawback for him. Also, one has to consider if he has a chemical imbalance that affects his reasoning.

Bible Believer said...

I am praying he can come through this into true faith. Life here on earth can be very hard. I also think if someone has had an abusive childhood especially severe abuse that can have lifelong ramifications but he can still heal via God. You may be seeing some of the effects.

I know I went through this period, though in my case, it would have been my UU years and I was just as lost during the short sojurn in the RCC before I was born again. {I was RCC growing up too}

I had the time thinking all religion was bunk because so many human beings disagreed and the similarities I saw in religions led me to believe the UU stuff, where all religions lead to God until I knew what Christianity really was. Sure all of Satan's deceptions have a sameness. So he is in that mode but really within the so called unbelieving "Christian" camp.

I started to study the BIble to disprove it while UU.

Yeah I know kind of weird. I've always been one of those sorts that wants to go right to the source of information, and that helped instead of just taking everyone's word for WHAT IT SAID, and that got me started on my journey. His analytical mind could serve him in truth if he is OPEN to TRUTH and has a WILLING HEART and DESIRES to know the truth. That is not always a bad attribute just depends on how it is used.

I remember the day, where I was praying and reading the BIble, think the verse was the one where it was about the Holy Spirit being our teacher and thought I don't have to listen to these churches, I need to depend on God's Word too. I was at least a new believer in a decent church where the pastor taught test everything by God's Word and we know how extraordinarily rare that is!

I hope and pray he reads this, I posted a link and he did post it, and that he reads my warnings about the "history" and other delusion crowds. I had to work my way through this stuff, but I had the Holy Spirit's help.

Anonymous said...

A coworker was asking for money to help send kids to camp through their church. I Googled the church. It's a big mega church. One of the things they do in their Sunday night service is - confession? What?

The pastor has a blog and there was something about Lent. So I'm thinking they are part of the plan to bring the 'lost brethren' into the Catholic church maybe?

Then I google Kenton Beshore, the pastor, and turns out he was fined $7,500 for trying to bribe a young woman $36,000 to retract her accusation of sexual molestation towards a member of his congregation, some surgeon.

Mr. Beshore's dad, Dr. Beshore is one of those guys predicting when the rapture will happen.

And this guy has this huge mega church with a park and a lake.

Anonymous said...

So I'm looking at the church website and they talk about being innovative and relevant and changing the world and being global. Book list includes Rick Warren, Steve Furtick, Focus on the Family, John Townsend who appears on focus on the family and with Rick Warren, and John Eldredge.

That tells us all we need to know.

It really burned me the this church does all these things to help abused kids but then the pastor bribes an abused kid to be quiet?

Anonymous said...

Sorry. I should have said the Mariners Church website talked about being innovative and relevant. I'm so amazed that a person who tried to bribe a young girl to be quiet would have tens of thousands of people come to see him at his mega church every weekend.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Anon, a lot of the false churches around here are incorporating Catholic things. There is one large church around here, very popular that celebrates Lent and even started Saturday night services. There are many becoming more and more "Catholic" and well the Emergent ones are first to jump up at all the Catholic ceremonies and rituals. That is scary they are doing "confession", wonder if it is one on one, or group confession, all these false churches are developed as a "home to Rome" or home to a daughter of the harlot".

Wow sounds like the pastor has problems too, yes I saw the article as well. Sounds like they are following Rome's example there too in hiding the abusive clergy.

Hmm date setting from the father?

Looks like your typical NWO influenced Emergent megachurch, the book list says it all. I've walked out of churches I visited when I first moved here, when I saw certain libraries or really "book stores".

The hypocrisy too would bother me where they say they help abused kids but then protect an abuser. Surely since it was in the news they found out but that anymore doesn't get many to think or to depart from a false pastor.

Anonymous said...

That "Mariner's Church" is not even able to give you the Gospel. I called there one time asking how to be sure of going to heaven, and the guy on the phone was some associate "pastor" and couldn't even give a straight answer (he probably doesn't know the answer himself).

They are all conduits to the catholic whore. That is why they incorporate things into them, from her. So you can two-step your way to Rome.

And yes, as it was stated, if you want to know about a church, find out what books they want to force down your throat. That will tell you all you need to know.

Bible Believer said...

That's sad anon, they couldn't even give you the gospel. You are right he probably doesn't know. Well I have seen that before too!

Bible Believer said...

I think I could be the "selective fundamentalist" mentioned. Maybe not.

That is false religion, telling people that the "heart of the 'true jesus" comes through the human conscience."

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Alex wrote: "TC, not true.

I have Faith in a good and loving and merciful creator God.

I don’t have faith in every jot and tittle of the man-filtered bible nor the man-filtered clergy and church."

and found this interesting too, time at the Shiloh Commune?

"Funny fact about John Higgins, he gave me a ride on his motorcycle at The Land at the Shiloh Commune in Oregon when I was a kid. He, supposedly, was in the running to be my step-dad (for a time)."

I dare say high level connection to the Calvary Chapel system is not a good and positive thing.

Anyhow it's sad, how many of these false preachers and churches lead the young away from God and God's Word. Was just talking about that on another blog post yesterday. I remember all the PHONY BALONEY PREACHERS and the NONSENSE of ROME, taking me right to the door of the UU.

So I had the same thoughts too once upon a time, but I am praying one day he does come to know God and His Word.

Anonymous said...

I now listen to my old Christian radio station to now see what emerging/new age trend they are talking about instead of getting sound bible teaching.

It may have been yesterday they talked about Tim Chaddick and his Reality Church in Hollywood here in Calif. I googled him to see what came up. Here's one article.

I found this article about it. Reality Church is for the young, beautiful and hip. Some stars have even been there like Britany Spears and Miley Cyrus. The pastor likes to go to tattoo palors and drink a few beers. He seems to like to says stuff 'sucks' a lot. Raul Reis was quoted as saying tattoos are pagan. And I'm thinking, but you founded the Whosoevers who are covered in tattoos! Lol
The article says that church goers date each other - so it's a good place to meet others.

I googled Tim Chaddick emergent.
There were a few sites talking about Tim addressing the emergent church and how we have to be so careful, but then I guess he is favorable to Mark Driscoll. Yikes!