Tuesday, April 16, 2013

Summing Up Bad Bible Versions

It can be very confusing going to websites that describe the details of bible versions, I have read them, and for a newbie, eyes can glaze over with new words like Textus Receptus [that's the good text by the way] to learn. Sometime I'd like to strip the whole Bible version thing down and explain it in the simplest form. Pictures do it easier then one could do it written. This book already did the job better then I probably could. I don't agree with Chick on everything but this was the book that helped clear away my fog and confusion, especially when facts were checked and more.

Did the Catholic Church Give Us the Bible?

If you know folks who are being drawn into false Bible compromise, maybe get them this book if you are able.

The basics are there were two Bible streams. These were God's True Word and Alexandrian and Gnostic influenced "Bibles". The translators Hort and Westcott, were two men in the 1800s who translated from the false manuscripts to make the modern Bible versions in most evangelical and other churches you see today. In the Catholic church our Bibles were translated from the same manuscripts that Hort and Westcott used. This is why when I read a NIV, I think NAB right away. They "read" the same.




This picture sums up the basics. You do want to see what your Bible version is ROOTED IN. One thing to remember about Alexandria to keep it all simple, realize Alexandria was in Eygpt, think pagan, think Gnostic, remember that is where Origen and pals came from and those early church fathers I warn about.

They build mistakes upon mistakes with each "new" edition. If you have old bibles even of false ones, you can see differences. Whenever I see a KJV at a used bookstore if I have enough money, I try to buy it. I suggest you do too. I believe the days will be coming to this country where finding a good KJV Bible will be as precious as gold. The more Bibles you can obtain to pass out to people the better!

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bulgarian anon here. Nobody cares about these issues here. The KJV stands as the best translation in the English language. The new bibles make Jesus a liar and erase many prophecies for the first and second coming in the OT. Also his divine nature and his true purpose - to save mandkind are downplayed too. On can easily counter ALL church dogma with a simple reading of the NT in the KJV.

I am lucky to have a Bible in my language that is good too. It is the so called "Constantinople" or "King-city" Bible. Despite it's name it is a very good translation from proper greek and hebrew manuscripts by an Orthodox monk (NT) and some teachers (OT). It was paid for by american missionaries in the mid 19 Century. It has some Russian-isms, but I've compared the new testament to the KJV and the differences are minor, non-doctrinal for sure. This is because it is a literal translation, even if it is translated from an Orthodox cleric. It is in a way the same with Martin Luther - he produced a good translation without being a bible believer.

Of course the occultists called Danovists(from their Satanic toilet paper guru Petar Danov) used the Constantinople bible, like the masons used the KJV to turn away true Christians from the good bibles. They were given privilege and freedom during comminist rule and are boiling in hell right now.

In Christ

Anonymous said...

Great article. The KJV is perfect. The other "versions" are corrupt.

Bible Believer said...

Bulgarian anon, probably there many do not realize those issues or are in the false churches. Even here it is the minority of Christians who are aware that the KJV is God's true Word in English. The only churches that use it are very few fundamentalist baptist and other churches anymore. It's the exception rather then the rule. Even there that doesn't guarantee that a church is not preaching false doctrine. The new and false Bibles switch the doctrines. When I was newly saved, I compared my NAB to the KJV, it was nothing like it whatsoever. Sure there were some that was the same but they had changed A LOT, and always at the expense of doctrine and truth. Here we have the Jehovah Witnesses who have their rewritten bible that they have taken everything out and rewritten where it says Jesus is God.

I am happy you have a bible in your language that is good, and from the proper manuscripts. That is what makes a difference, where did the root of the Bible come from and where was it translated from.

Sure there are occultists who misuse the KJV. You are right about how one will find the KJV in Masonic temples. There are KJV Bibles they have marked and added their design pages too. I believe anyone who is a freemason unless they repent and leave is headed for hell as well. Freemasons worship Satan. Many are duped at the lower levels and do not know what they are part of, but the higher ones know.

Bible Believer said...

Agree about the KJV. We have to watch out for corrupt Bible versions.

Anonymous said...

With all fairness, every "translation" is corrupt because man has translated it. Unfortunately, even the KJV was written to maintain the Divine Right of Kings, etc and the hierarchies bestowed. It also translated using some latin words which alters the Greek rendition

A great exposition to read:

http://awildernessvoice.com/GEC.html

Anonymous said...

"With all fairness, every "translation" is corrupt because man has translated it."

If every translation is corrupt then God is a liar. Because he has promised to preserve his perfect word.

Besides, if you claim that the KJV is not perfect because it was translated by men, well, the bible was written by men.

If there is no perfect translation, then where is God's word? Where can I read it?

Anonymous said...

The KJV wasn't "written", it is a translation. The king may have used it to boost his popularity, but in no way did it lead to increased Church of England membership in the long term.

All those baptists back then must've known greek to be able to break away, huh? . . . All non-denominational Christians know greek or they broke away by chance?

There are enough verses in the bible about the nature of the church that plainly rebuke "hierarchies". Sure, not trainslating certain parts leads to dim understanding, but those folks that always point at the Greek usually have an agenda.

I will stick to my human translated Bibles. The AV and the Constantinople version.

By the way one of the authors of this "exposition" praises the Matrix movie as an inspirational piece. The whole website smells fishy. Too much focus on "realising who we are" and "breaking away from the establishment" If I were to make someone leave organised pseudochristianity, I wouldn't jump to the greek, that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

The "anon" that said that "all translations are corrupt", is telling you that they don't believe in the Bible. Since they are telling you that they don't have a Bible at all, since every Bible is a translation, and the "originals" don't exist anymore. They don't believe in the Bible, and they don't believe in the Lord's promise and ability to preserve His Word with 100% perfection in a translation. So their "view" is from satan, not from God.

Bible Believer said...

Agree with the response to anon saying all translations are corrupt.

God promised to preserve his word.

One thing when I was Catholic, they constantly beat that drum that no Bible was perfect, we did not really have God's Word, toss in the synoptic stuff where they even question who wrote various books including gospel of the NT, and it was a mess. This is how they fool people to believe in tradition and false religious leaders.

The week I was born again, being an ex-Catholic that KNEW NOTHING just about, I went to a book store and bought a KJV. I felt I was told to buy this type of Bible and I KNEW NOTHING about Bible versions, and I knew the minute I opened it, that this was God's Word and I finally had it! It is actually a defining moment in my life. I can't even give words to how I felt at that moment.

The Holy Spirit paved the way for me NOT to waste my time with the NIV and other rotten Bibles.

No not all translations are corrupt! The KJV is God's Word in English. YES some try to skew it...the masons adding occult art, etc but if you believe the KJV is corrupt too, then what about God's promise to preserve His Word?

Do you realize that one reason that false religious leaders claimed so much power is they claimed their 'churches' held the truth and not God's Word and when trust in His Word is destroyed this means they can bring even more errors in.

What Bible do you use original anon. I notice that on your link, that Calvin is praised.

What Bible do you use?

Bible Believer said...

I didn't get that link, it seemed confusing, maybe those who read Romans 13 and take their false preachers word for it, instead of what the KJV bible actrually "says" will miss out on the constant warnings in the scripture regarding world "hiearchies". The people who do point to the Greek, and say Oh they translated it wrong in the KJV DO usually have an agenda. You know doing this blog, the attacks on the KJV via the false religionists never let up. They are all centered on that Bible. How come? Well there is a reason for it. I am not like Ruckman claiming the KJV is new inspiration, it is a TRANSLATION. {he is a false teacher tossed in to bring more confusion}

In English we have the KJV, other languages they have Bibles that have been translated from the right manuscripts.

They praise the Matrix on that link? Yeah you got to be kidding me. The Matrix was the NWO elite laughing at people. Satan's kingdom of plugged in the head types claiming they were "free". I saw the first one when unsaved and refused to watch the rest but that movie is so evil it is not funny, mind control, Mk ultra, Buddhism, it's all in there.

The discerning is seriously lacking if this is a sincere article and if it's not...well...

Both the red and blue pill are poisonous.

Here is the link where they are praising it.

http://awildernessvoice.com/Matrix.html

Anonymous said...


"What Bible do you use original anon. I notice that on your link, that Calvin is praised."

Good question. Calvinism, being a form of catholic-lite, also puts the words of man above the Word of God.

Anyone that tells you that "no Bible is perfect", is telling you that they don't believe the Bible and that the Bible doesn't exist at all. Such a position is untenable, of course.

The truth is that God promised to preserve His Word, and in English it is the KJV, 100% perfect.

Anonymous said...

Joy

On a different post about Bible translations, I said that I was raised on the NIV version, and have lots and lots of verses memorized in that translation. I have a NKJV that I often read and like, but had not yet found a KJ Bible at the local thrift store.

Well, today I did. And it seems to be a real gem. Large type, and looks like it was owned by someone who read it a lot. Does have the Schofield reference notes. Lots of notes and underlines, very used but in good shape. Published in 1967, previously owned by someone named Susana. I look forward to using it.

I'm still not certain what I think of Bible translations. I have heard that Apostle simply means messenger, that babtise means submerge or dunk, which seems that they were left basically untranslated for political reasons, such as that King James believed in infant sprinkling, not new believer dunking. I do know that the Holy Spirit has taught and convicted me with the NIV version, but if this is a better translation, I am going to use it.

Still might stick to my NKJV for reading out loud to my kids, at least until I get used to the thou's and thee's of the King James version.

Anonymous said...

In case anyone is looking for, and cannot find, a KJV:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565631609/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Version-Leather-Edition/dp/1565638085/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Note these include the Apocrypha...(the original did too)...so you can skip that portion if you wish.

I got the hard cover and love the old English (I'm an old soul)

Anonymous said...

This site has good articles about the KJV.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles.html

http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq.html

As far as the NKJV is concerned, it has the triquetra on it's cover. Some try to defend this by saying that it represents the trinity. But, it is a pagan symbol.

Anonymous said...

I should also mention that King James did not finance or partake in translating the KJV. He really just got the ball rolling. It is really his bible in name only.

Anonymous said...

Revelation 13:10 is the litmus test as to what bible version is true or false.

-JL

Marion said...

JL...I don't understand. Please explain.

Anonymous said...

Two things I want to share.

First, I grew up with the Living Bible from the 70s. In my adult years I had an NIV. Recently I took an old KJV from our bookshelf and started reading it. I also felt like I was finally reading the true word of God. I can't explain it, but I've stuck with it now for a couple of years. There seems to be power in this book and in the words!

Secondly, I found a small KJV Bible in a thrift shop from the 1860s in pretty condition for only a few dollars. What a gem! It's really small, and has a woman's name stenciled on it. I cherish that old Bible. It reads just like the KJV from our bookshelf from the 1980s. Every thrift shop I look for old KJVs, but the NIV is everywhere, unfortunately.
~Labby

Lisa Ruby said...

This is an excellent distillation of a complicated subject. Thank you, Bible Believer! :)

Anonymous said...

You know I had to read this article a second time and noticed that BB is correct. If you are from India, China, Pakistan...you can easily immigrate to America. If you are from America, no country wants you unless you have lots of money. In the past, you can get second passport, which was a backdoor to citizenship...well not anymore...Panama has permantely blocked the second passport program. Its looks like we are stuck in Amerika. Whats even scarier is the people who were happy that the police shut down their city. I think that is the scariest part because it shows how deceived the sheeple are.

-JL

Bible Believer said...

I go to used bookstores and always buy whatever cheap used KJVs I can afford. I have some that are very old too. Labby I read false Bibles in the RCC, still have them and used for research for a time, have read NIV in one early Bible study, nothing like the KJV which yes there is POWER in those Words. The false Bibles are always WATERED DOWN or CHANGED.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Lisa :)

Bible Believer said...

Yes they are closing down the doors here. Think about how easy it is for a Mexican to come here, but if one of us was to go to Mexico, we'd get thrown immediately in the slammer. So why our country grants AMNESTY to multi-millions this favor is not returned on the other side. [Sure there are Americans who have moved to Mexico] I don't blame the Mexican people who want to survive, but the global elites are definitely slamming the guard fences around not "letting Americans out" and letting everyone else and their brother and sister in. One thing if you all study the HB Vistas and how they plan to give more jobs to foreigners. Read this and ask yourself WHY IS THIS BEING DONE?

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930620&slug=1707442

What other country besides this one FAVORS foreigners over the people that live there?

So people can easily immigrate here from other places but we cannot. You have to be very rich as an American to go anywhere. I had friends where one married someone from Australia, and they were poorer, and they would not let him in the country. [30s, white Australian], they wanted to do things by the book, and later the marriage collapsed because of the years spent apart and the lack of tens of thousands of dollars for immigration lawyers and pay-offs. She couldn't go there either.

Canada, you can't be disabled, or have ONE disabled family member if you are American--there was a doctor that wanted to emigrate and they refused him based on a disabled child and you better have the correct amount of money. They only want rich Americans.

I didn't realize that about second passports, well that tells you something doesn't it? They are slamming down the doors here. Now you even need a passport to get to Canada.

One thing I noticed during my years in one big city, was how many special programs there were for immigrants including greater ease in getting jobs, business loans and more.

Yes the sheeple are deceived.

Anonymous said...

Sir, I read the article ; I am terribly sorry but what you are saying is almost completely false. This type of presentation of history is pure fiction ; it is the invention of Gail Riplinger, Sam Gipp, Peter Ruckman, etc. ; it would be pointless to start argumenting here, because James White does a much better job ; check his website, where he refutes King James Onlynism, there is his correspondence with Peter Ruckman, his rebutal of Gail Riplingers' "New Age Bible Versions", etc. Probaby you will say that you didn't even mention these people : yes, but you are buying into their ideology, which is, as I said pure fiction.

Anonymous said...

I forgot to put this link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r7ZsUBn9nQ
Here's James White responding to a type of presentation of history that resembles your own (there are three parts)

Bible Believer said...

I do not support Ruckman.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/07/warning-about-ruckman-i-do-not-think.html

I know Riplinger has some problems

There are many out there who are trying to discredit the KJV as God's true Word in English. I do not believe the KJV is new revelation. There are true Bibles in other languages translated off the right sources. Textus Receptus etc. If anything I believe Ruckman is a false wolf [Jesuit?] in sheep's clothing.

You want me to trust James White?

The Calvinist?

Calvinism is a daughter of Rome.

I used to read his website, mostly the stuff against Rome, but most of his Calvinist brothers and sisters are massively ecumenical, I also wonder about those who warn about the errors of Rome but seem blind to the inherited errors in other daughter church systems.

James White adheres to false early church fathers of Rome. The praise of Augustine alone shows where he comes from.

I listened to acouple arguments of his on the video...he just seems to discount God's Word, yes there were those who wrote it down word for word. It's all about breaking people's trust in God preserving His Word. I wonder if he would be like the Catholics in arguing about the authorship of the gospels?

Bible Believer said...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/10/why-i-am-not-calvinist.html

"In embracing Augustine via Calvin, they embrace his spiritual ancestors of Eusebius, Origen, Ignatius, all full of false teachings and leading the churches astray. One sad thing about many Calvinists I have encountered is they seem to take the Roman Catholic version of "church history" for granted, instead of listening to the warnings in the New Testament. Acts 20:29 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock."

The very fact their churches are built on these false foundations has led to immense errors, these false early church fathers, are also another avenue back to Rome."

Augustine and James White

https://aomin.org/results.html?cx=015138337201457149671%3Adhrmihpmjl0&cof=FORID%3A11&q=Augustine&sa=Search&siteurl=aomin.org%2Farticles%2Fbio.html&ref=&ss=3478j3324600j11

Anonymous said...

This is classic. We are talking about King James Onlynism, and you bring the topic of Calvinism. It is irrelevant to the discussion. This is classic King James Onlynism.

Anonymous said...

It's this article I'm talking about
http://vintage.aomin.org/NABVR.html
I really see no point in your talking about Calvinism when I was pointing specifically to the errors of King James Onlynism. No logical connection...

Anonymous said...

Here's the original translator's marginal note in the original 1611 KJV:
http://thestarman.pcministry.com/bible/trans/Psalm_12.7_Margin.htm

Anonymous said...

Here's the translator's marginal note on Psalm 12:6-8 in the original 1611 KJV:
http://thestarman.pcministry.com/bible/trans/Psalm_12.7_Margin.htm

Anonymous said...

Here's the translator's marginal note on Psalm 12:6-8 in the original 1611 KJV:
http://thestarman.pcministry.com/bible/trans/Psalm_12.7_Margin.htm

Anonymous said...

Sir, this will be my last comment on your blog. I reread the comments and responses I gave on this and the other thread (article) of yours. I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh. I'm sorry the last link I put was posted three times - the webpage wasn't working at that moment and I had to send it again, not knowing it was already sent.

But here are just a few thoughts before I leave:

In any discussion, using "ad hominem" arguments is considered to be irrelevant. This is a basic rule which you seem not to follow in your comments and articles. What is "ad hominem" ? It means discussing the person instead of the subject. Here are a few examples, which if I remember well you used:

Calvinism is wrong because Calvin was ...[arguments]... and ... (and so on)

Dispensationalism is wrong because John Nelson Darby was ... and ...

Amilennialism is wrong because Augustine was ... and ...

And the list continues.

In discussing something, is the subject that is to be discussed and not the person.

Secondly, the misinterpretation of Psalm 12:6,7 is evident from looking carefully at what the translators of the KJV themselves said, and the hebrew grammar (see the link I posted).

Thirdly, I didn't bring into discussion church history, but the history of manuscripts and translation, which KJ Onlynists reinvent or - to be generous - distort. Practically, the type of history presented by them - Kent Hovind, Sam Gipp, Peter Ruckman and Gail Riplinger to name a few - is completely erroneous.

Fourthly, The KJ translators themselves, along with Erasmus, Stephanus, Beza, etc. did textual criticism - what KJ Onynists ignore. They used the Septuagint, the latin Vulgate and translations into other languages as well. Also , the Masoretic Text itself had marginal notes, which the KJV frequently follows (see here: http://www.kjv-only.com/qere.html), the marginal notes (the original 1611 KJV had a lot) show that alternate readings are possible, there are just so many things to be said... Here a site that deals specifically with the self-contradictions of KJ Onlynism: www.kjv-only.com . The KJ Only movement is just filled with inconsistencies, faulty resoning, misrepresentations, etc...

Fifthly, to put ALL modern translations into the same bucket is, again, wrong. There are conservative translations, such as NASB, ESV, NKJV, NIV, and there are perversions, such as the JW translation, or others such as "The Message" (to which I say: NO COMMENT) which cannot be put all in the same bucket - it wouldn't be fair.

Sixthly, KJ Onlynists, in front of facts, bring childish, irritable responses, and refuse to analyse facts; see here http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/94371-kjv-only-misinterpretation-psalms-12-6-7-a.html the response of a KJ Onlynist, he is just irritated, and responds childishly. This is just an example of the type of reasoning that is endemic among KJO supporters.

More could be said, but time is so short. Again, I am sorry if I was too harsh - this will be my last comment on this blog, I promise - but this error of KJ Onlynism has troubled many people in America, the english speaking world, and now it's beginning (actually, for the last 20 years or so) to spread in other countries, and the results are devastating. The KJO movement is a huge error and it has to be refuted.

Finally, here are some links you shouldn't ignore:

http://www.kjv-only.com/rick/mystical.html

http://www.kjv-only.com/rick/origenjerome.html

http://www.kjv-only.com/rick/nkjvfalsehoods.html

Bible Believer said...

I spent years reading the Catholic side of "church history" and Protestant.

Sorry I do not trust Rome's version of the facts so when you write this:

" but the history of manuscripts and translation, which KJ Onlynists reinvent or - to be generous - distort. "

I check out.

The history was distorted from the START, it is not to be trusted in.

The main reason Protestants are being steered wrong is they trust in Rome's version of "history" and "early church fathers"

I've read Augustine for myself, even the Protestant and Catholic version of his words. Yeah both camps have different "interpreted" versions.

The Holy Spirit allows Christians to recognize what is His Word and what is not.

There are huge numbers of Satan's workers who want to discredit God's Word, and well sure is there some falsehoods in KJV-ONlyism. There are infiltrators there.

Remember I am an ex-Catholic right? I got NASB, Douay-Rheims, etc, right on the shelf. I have compared and contrasted the various Bibles even NIV with KJV.

I am NOT a KJV ONLYIST [in the way defined by Ruckman and pals]

Your exposing KJV only website may on some things be accurate, the mystical mumbo jumbo, things like Ruckman teaching "new revelation" to help in the cause to discredit and limit trust in God's Word being preserved.



Bible Believer said...

I spent years reading the Catholic side of "church history" and the Protestant too. This includes many of James White's articles.

Sorry I do not trust Rome's version of the facts so when you write this:

" but the history of manuscripts and translation, which KJ Onlynists reinvent or - to be generous - distort. "

I check out.

The history was distorted from the START, it is not to be trusted in. Why would you trust in HISTORY which the "winndes" [Rome in this world] wrote?

The main reason Protestants are being steered wrong is they trust in Rome's version of "history" and "early church fathers"

I've read Augustine for myself, even the Protestant and Catholic version of his words. Yeah both camps have different "interpreted" versions. His words go against the Word of God on many many issues.

The Holy Spirit allows Christians to recognize what is His Word and what is not.

There are huge numbers of Satan's workers who want to discredit God's Word, and well sure is there some falsehoods in KJV-ONlyism. There are infiltrators there.

Remember I am an ex-Catholic right? I got NASB, Douay-Rheims, etc, right on the shelf. I have compared and contrasted the various Bibles even NIV with KJV. I am familiar with how other Bibles read, I never had a KJV in my hands until I was 32 years old.

I am NOT a KJV ONLYIST [in the way defined by Ruckman and pals]

Your exposing KJV only website may be right on some things and be accurate, the mystical mumbo jumbo, things like Ruckman teaching "new revelation" to help in the cause to discredit and limit trust in God's Word being preserved. Phony mysticism etc.

With the article on NKJV all I have to do is read it for myself to see the "watering down"

Anonymous said...

Calvinism is from the devil. James White is a false teacher. So anything he says, is worth nothing.

The KJV is 100% accurate, as it is, you will notice, the Bible they always go after.

Maxwell Smart said...

You can finds almost all English versions on www.HolyBibleSearch.net.

Anonymous said...

I was just reading about the bible called The Message by Eugene Peterson. Very new age language.
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html
This is so disturbing. And then when you read the people that endorse it: Billy Graham, Bono, Hybels, Joni Erikson Tada, Foster - a who's who of ecumenism and new age - oh yeah, and Rick Warren.

Richard Petker said...

Very good blogging on many different topics and very thought provoking and heart searching.Thank you for these. I have noticed you often defend the KJV. I for many years have had a problem with the KJV [which I do use and like;I grew up with it] as it is only an English translation. Is it not arrogant that only the English get the "correct" word of God? I recently heard a message from Tim Conway that I would encourage you to at least listen to.[from "I'll Be Honest" website. titled "The Myth of the King James Only".] A very enlightening message. I know 2 elderly men from our little church [20 years ago]bitterly defending the KJV to the end of there days.They seemed to loose the joy of the Lord especially when the new pastor did not exclusively use KJV. He did use it often so as not to alienate those older members. My wife was raised French [from Montreal] and had a very hard time understanding the KJV as a new believer.For her the more modern English was far easier to comprehend.
I agree that not all English versions are good but some are.Does not God have the ability to speak to us in our language.After all if we trust the Holy Spirit to enlighten us is that not what He will do?
Blessings to you. Rick

Bible Believer said...

Please study bible versions, there are many corrupted ones. I am not KJV ONLY in that I do not believe that the KJV is new inspiration and yes of course there are bibles in other languages. A lot of churches go into falsehood using false Bibles, maybe those two men did not want a false bible being read in their church.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/04/summing-up-bad-bible-versions.html

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for your good words on my articles too.