Friday, April 5, 2013

Chuck Smith Jr. and News4themasses

Chuck Smith Jr Writes N4TM: Chuck Smith Jr’s Response to Being a “Straight Ally For Gay Christians” among other things

Supposedly Chuck Jr. has appeared on News4themasses responding to what was written about him. [I only put supposedly as this being the Internet one has to be careful but read for yourself]. Make sure you see the comments below as well where some Christian commenters seek to set him straight.  What is sad, is he shows his love of Catholicism and false books and teachers.  
"You are misinformed regarding my contact with Roman Catholicism. I have never advocated for, or endorsed Thomas Merton. However, if he said something quotable that glorified God, I would not shrink back from quoting him. If Paul was comfortable quoting pagan poets and prophets, why should I avoid quoting someone whose beliefs I do not fully share?"
Isn't this the message we hear from religious pluralists all over, that false religions holds truths and that while they are in error about "some" things, they have multiple truths, and of course the pluralist usually insists those come from "God" as well. Thomas Merton was a very ecumenical monk who hung out with Buddhists monks and sought after truths in Buddhism. Warning Catholic link.

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

He defends contemplative prayer. So he doesn't take his understanding of it from Catholicism but from elsewhere? Well contemplative prayer overlaps with false meditation in other religious traditions.  That really makes no difference. Scripture has nothing that supports contemplative prayer in it. "
"I have never advocated Roman Catholic dogma. My understanding of “contemplative prayer” is not drawn from Roman Catholicism, but from the Scriptures and especially the Psalms–which have been the source of hymns, prayer, and spiritual songs of God’s people for millennia."
The defense of false teachers is concerning. Your father is a famous evangelical preacher and this is the best he could do in warning someone around false teachers? Well we know Chuck Smith Sr. believes Catholics are Christians for sure now, and it seems his son does as well.
"I have read many Roman Catholic authors including John Cassian, St. Augustine, Anselm, and Thomas Aquinas (most bonafide Christian apologists have also read Anselm, Augustine, and Aquinas). Furthermore, my reading list includes several works by Russian and Greek Orthodox theologians. I have also read The Institutes of John Calvin (who was a great fan of Augustine and quotes him frequently) and a host of other theological works and biblical commentaries by evangelical and fundamentalist authors. Martin Luther was also deeply interested in contemplative spirituality and strongly endorsed the work “The Theological Germanica.” But the only books I read without filters are the sixty-six books of the Bible."

Didn't I warn that Thomas Aquinas helped send people to the stake?  Yes I did.

"Thomas Aquinas wrote: "I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
There is absolutely no discernment regarding these false teachers or the false doctrines he may pick up from the other Catholic and Russian Orthodox authors and teachers. How did Chuck Smith Jr. miss the warnings of Revelation or Revelation 17? The following sounds like it was written by a Catholic apologist instead of Chuck Smith Jr., son of famous Calvary Chapel founder Chuck Smith Sr.
"On the other hand, many Protestants have been misled by anti-Catholic authors who have invented historical connections between Roman Catholicism and ancient pagan religions (such as Alexander Hislop’s “Two Babylons”). "
Here he basically makes it clear that he sees Catholics as Christian too and downplays the idolatry and falseness of praying to the dead.

"Not that I am defending everything that Roman Catholics around the world believe or do in the name of their religion. Nevertheless, I would not be surprised if the percentage of Roman Catholics who actually please God by walking with Him every day is at least as high as the percentage of Protestants who do so. Although I personally disapprove of praying to saints, I cannot believe that it is any worse than self-righteousness and hypocrisy."

One thing about all of this, is there are many ex-Catholics who leave and go to Calvary Chapel thinking it is a true church that will teach the Word of God. Where are they during these defenses of  Catholicism? I do know there are probably many in that church today where if they learned about the ecumenical ties, the truth about Boykin and much of the rest that has been exposed on discernment blogs, it definitely would get them asking questions.

He goes on and says he never was an Emergent and denies that he spent a sabbatical in a monastery. At this point given what is written above, I see that as making little difference. Would you trust any pastor that couldn't even discern the falseness of Catholicism? Who didn't even have the discernment of the Holy Spirit helping them to realize the truth about the ecumenical movement? This isn't about finding flaws in people or any of the other things the ecumenically inclined complain about but warning people of the truth. That includes Catholics too who deserve to know the true Gospel and to have access to God's Word.

He is not happy about what was written about Lonnie. One can hear Lonnie on many videos presented on these blogs stating things himself that are extraordinarily questionable. All I had to do is see Lonnie and Kathyrn Khulman in action to know something was severely wrong there.

The rest concerns different details of News4themass's particular article.

It is always sad to see the same things written over and over, in defense of the deceptions. One day you always hope one of these types will wake up and break away from the status quo and start standing up for God. It's too bad, he seems to be following in the steps of his ecumenical father.

In this article I wrote some time ago where I was linking to an article from news4themasses, I added some information.

Chuck Fromm, Chuck Smith Jr. and Their Persecuted "Bible Study"

I found Chuck Smith Jr's [if that is truly him posting on news4themasses] comment odd.

"One of my uncle’s friends went on to slander me on blogs and in print, accusing me of spending a sabbatical in a monastery (I didn’t) "

He may be absolutely correct that he never spent a sabbatical at a Monastery, but back then I linked to his past blog now removed from the internet and posted this quote on that article as you can see where he says that a monk had profound influence on him and does admit time spent in a monastery.

Chuck Smith Jr's previous blog Reflexion has since been removed from the Internet. I went to the Wayback machine, and saw this entry.

I don't want to quibble about his time spent in the monastery though there seems ample evidence of some monastery time. That alone doesn't prove someone wrong, I grew up surrounded by priests, nuns and in various convents and visits to monasteries and Catholic churches and was later born again, but the sad thing is he remains in confusion, still believing that the Catholic church is "Christian", not realizing that the truth of God's Word and how many millions are lost in it's deceptions and that includes the thousands who live in monasteries and convents today.

I do wonder if Chuck Smith Jr. will have a new role to serve in Calvary Chapel one day as the one world church comes even more together.  I do of course believe Calvary Chapel was a false church from the start. Perhaps Chuck Smith Jr's training was especially *Catholic* in orientation for a future purpose, who knows? It is sad to watch. Sadly so many are under sway of false preachers like this. One hears the same exact thing from all of them just about. The same sentences even.

In the above video he states:

"I want the real deal whatever that means and whatever it takes to get there so I've been exploring.." -Chuck Smith Jr.

I hope one day he does find the real deal in Jesus Christ not the 'cosmic christ" of contemplative prayer and Catholicism, where he is able to wake up to the deceptions of contemplative prayer and the false experiences he seeks. The same that happened to me as I left the UU, and the Catholic church and came into the truth. Whoever his father is even if he bears the pressures of being the son of a major religious figure, one can still be born again. Many Christians who come to truth and are born again, had families, fathers and others who never were saved.


Anonymous said...

There's no question as to where he stands, even though he himself seems not to be sure. Without labels, as he call it, but that could also mean without doctrine and that is what has become the defining line between those that believe Jesus' teaching and those that don't adhere closely to it.

So glad that you had taken information from the other blog and have it recorded on your site. That's a great way to both protect yourself but also provide information that is much needed when dealing with people who try to cloud the truth with wishy-washy statements about their whereabouts or past statements.

There is no joy in any of this, just sadness. No joy in the proving or being right, but sadness for the true gospel.

Anonymous said...

"Would you trust any pastor that couldn't even discern the falseness of Catholicism?"

I wouldn't call such a person a pastor at all. I would call such a person, a wolf. So I'm very happy that you pointed this out.

Bible Believer said...

I agree Labby, well remember he comes from the place where there are no absolute truths, so it will sound "unsure". That is where the ecumenical formula leads, looking for half truths, and the rest. While parents do not determine grown adult children's religious futures all the time, one can tell there was no training here about the falseness of other religions like Catholicism. Without labels does mean without doctrine. In the UU church, they tell people "labels" are bad, and yes people can be over-stereotyped or not taken as individuals, but they take this too far to destroy the concept of truth. Thanks, sometimes it does to communicate with other blogs. I remembered that part about him being in the monastery. What is weird, is why deny that so avidly? It's too bad with no discernment he could not use it as a lesson for others. I have spent times in the convent when young, my life was spent among nuns, my parents took me to monasteries for visits--public visting areas of course, but there is a cousin who was a priest who lived at one. THe people are misdirected sadly thinking that emptying their minds doing Eucharist Adoration is truth, sadly being led after the same false 'christ" that Chuck Jr. is following. There is no joy in any of this to me either. Just disappointment. The true gospel lost among the confusion. Imagine if Chuck Smith Jr actually had the truth what good that could have done.

Anon, I agree I wouldn't call them a pastor at all either.

news4themasses said...

Hi Bible Believer, thanks for posting this. I watched other of his videos on vimeo I believe it was. I did a lot of looking into him when I went to post that original article of him at the Embrace conference. Chuck Jr has had a messy walk to say the least. I did say that I believe he "wants to know God," and that is because he is "trying" to know God, however he's going to false doctrines for the answers. He has left my blog and determined that we don't want to hear from him which is further from the truth, he had ample opportunity but took the easy way out. Imagine that. Now another "discernment" site has linked to my post but in a way that begrudges me and of course takes Chuck Smith Jr's side of things. Interesting how he doesn't know much about Jr but knows enough about me (N4TM) to chop me up a little bit. I knew that was a possibility when I put Chuck Smith Jr's comment up as a post on my blog that some trolls would invite themselves in to judge me also. Seems like there are those who believe you have to have a Doctorate of Philosophy and Theology to call out false teachers or point out to the sheep when you see a land mine. Now that is a sad day for the church.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks News4themases. I am glad you saw some of those other videos and read more about him. He does seem very confused. What was sad, is he did not want to listen to what Christians had to tell him even in the examination of his own beliefs. It seems his heart is hardened. What discernment website is taking Chuck Jr's side of things. He showed absolutely no discernment whatsoever. I agree it could invite the trolls, it is a danger that is taken. The seminaries filling their students heads with vain philosophy and complex theology only lead them into more confusion. I know someone in a seminary and when she tells people about the classes she has to take it is mind-boggling, they bury them in everything but scripture. Chuck Jr definitely has been trained in that seminary mindset.

Anonymous said...


remember this scripture

1tim 5:19-20

if you had at least another witness warn him, and he refused the warning, then you have every RIGHT to expose him publicly.


William Sculley said...

And suddenly you are able to tell if a person is saved or not.

The Trinity called. They regret to inform you that your application for "person of the Trinity" was rejected. It seems that only three positions were available. They will inform you if ever the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit determine they wish to take a vacation, but they have been doing this job for several eternities without vacation.

Bible Believer said...

William, I know you being Orthodox they will tell you that you cannot discern who are the Christians or not. Without the Holy Spirit warning, this means you are open to every false teacher or person who claims they are a Christian hmm like a Pope? You seriously believe that God leaves people floundering not even knowing who is a Christian or not.

Anonymous said...

some of these comments are ridiculous! I knew Chuck Smith Jr and his wife Chris when I lived in Dana Point years ago. All I can say is that his staying at a monastery for a time is being treated as if he committed a crime! Also, for those reading this who would like to claim that a Catholic is NOT a Christian?? come on people! I left organized religion because I am sick and tired of the division over things that should not make or brake a person sincere faith. We are all on our own journey.. I may not be as far as the next person and I may be further than the person behind me... so who is anyone to judge others?? The Bible may be the inspired word of God..however, with all the mainstream denominations there are just as many interpretations that don't necc agree on every point with each other.. So, who is right?????????? come on people??? I believe that our Lord God knows each of our hearts. If he does not then he isn't all knowing . If he knows my heart then I don't need to convince everyone else here of my sincerity because the only one that matters is God. It is wasted time and energy and hateful to continually mock other denominations and to imply that your brand is the only real brand that counts. Thats ridiculous. I refuse to be a part of these kinds of churches any longer. I don't see them as Christian anymore. I see them as cultish and getting worse all the time. This kind of religion is at the very root of bigotry and racism and it is no wonder that churches are losing members. For me, I need God in my life and I have him .. I DON"T need to be taught how to hate people that are not just like me though. I want more out of life than that. It disgusts me to hear snide remarks over the years from Chuck Smith Sr about Pastor Warren when it's obvious there was an ego trip going on here and maybe just a bit of jealousy. Enough is enough already. I won't be a part of that hateful crap anymore. I also think it is completely unChristian to elevate oneself above someone who is homosexual.Who is anyone to judge someone based on how God made them? It is not a moral issue when a person is born gay and yet there are those churches who interpret to persecute those who are gay and damn them to hell. Then there are those denominations who welcome them without question and accept them as Jesus accepted all. Which church would I enjoy more?? The exclusive or the inclusive?? Come on people... think about who your listening to?? preachers or just people like the rest of us. They don't have ALL the answers and the answers they think they have are NOT always the right answers... Think for yourselves more and quit just blindly accepting everything your told at church!

Bible Believer said...

You believe the Catholic church is Christian?

Christians need to witness to Catholics.

I came out of the Catholic church [see old posts and click on Catholic on index]

and personally know it is a false gospel and a church involved with the new world order and leads people to hell.

It sounds like you are headed for the UU if no beliefs matter. They are a doctrine-less church. Rome led me right in their doors before I was saved.

The Bible warns us hearts are full of deceit, and yes that can include our own.

I don't consider salvation a brand item, but if you are truly born again, you would want to vomit rather then participate in Rome's idolatry. I left only days after I was saved.

I don't hate Catholics I want them saved like I was. I don't want them fooled, used or exploited by the puzzle palace and protecters of pedophiles either. I want them away from these evil-doers and reading God's Word and find out truth.

Wow you really have bought into the whole liberal thing, homosexuals are not born homosexual.