Saturday, September 8, 2012

Ray Comfort's Connections to Gothard and Friends

I was commenting here...More Disturbing Things about the Duggars
 when a reader informed me the Duggars have recently gone "soul-winning" with Ray Comfort. I asked  "Why isn't Ray Comfort warning the whole family about Gothard?"

Well I got an answer to my question......

The time with the Duggars starts at around 17:50 in the video.

I know that Ray Comfort has hung out with Doug Phillips of Vision forum and even posted about it here:

Ray Comfort and Doug Phillips of Vision Forum?

So I did some digging and wondered what is the relationship between Gothard and Ray Comfort? Is there one?

What is weird is Ray Comfort says Gothard helped get his first video out...You know the one that made his name for him? Right on the Living Waters website, thanks is given to Bill Gothard.

"1990: The teaching was published in a book called, Hell's Best Kept Secret. 1992: Thanks to Bill Gothard, over 30,000 pastors saw this teaching via video, and the ministry began to grow."
Here too, Gothard is credited with help in getting the video out:

Here we see the support of Bill Gothard's ministry. I do not think that is a good list of names, including mostly the compromised and ecumenical. Now that IBLP is on there. This is Bill Gothard's organization.

 "Ray Comfort's ministry has been commended by Franklin Graham, Ravi Zacharias, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, Josh McDowell, Dr. Norman Geisler, Bill Gothard, David Wilkerson, Joni Eareckson Tada, and many other Christian leaders. He has written for Billy Graham's Decision magazine and Bill Bright's Worldwide Challenge. His literature is used by the Moody Bible Institute, Leighton Ford Ministries, Campus Crusade For Christ, Institute in Basic Life Principles, and the Institute for Scientific & Biblical Research. He has also written more than 60 books and is a regular platform speaker at Southern Baptist State Conferences. His videos were seen by more than 30,000 pastors in 1992, and he has spoken in more than 700 churches, from almost every denomination."

What do you think of that the fact Ray Comfort's literature is used by Bill Gothard's organizations?

Others have exposed Gothard's endless false teachings.

So sadly, Ray Comfort certainly wouldn't be warning the Duggars about Gothard and ATI or any of his false teachings.

What is sad, is this is a teacher that is accepted more by the mainstream and invited to a slew of evangelical and other churches and he can't even discern the false teachings in Gothardism?


Anonymous said...

Don't forget Ray Comfort's connection with Joyce Meyer. Didn't warn about her, but instead, interviewed her!

And there you have in that list of "endorsers", Jesuit Norman Geisler. That speaks volumes as well.

Bible Believer said...

Oh Ray Comfort has shown up even with the Word of Faither crowd and made tons of excuses when called out. Not surprised he was in support of Joyce Meyer. There are some like that, that almost serve as connections between the various false evangelical leaders. Yeah the Jesuit Norman Geisler endorsement said it all to me too.

One thing while I wrote this article, I kept wondering about that "ON THE BOX" slogan. Is that like being "ON THE SQUARE"? I suppose they can say oh it's the soap box, but I did wonder....

Sam said...

Your mention of On the box as being a possible reference to being on the square reminded me of something I was thinking about today: The foursquare gospel...even though an explanation is given as to what it represents what we are told it means and what it actually means may well be quite different.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for bringing this out. I was aware of problems with the Comfort/Cameron team, but it goes to show that leaven multiplies.

WoM (Way of the Master) has been a staple on TBN for years and Comfort has shared platforms with false teachers ad nauseum. Cameron goes to Glenn Beck to tout his new film project. It goes on and on.

There is a root to this tree that gives rotten fruit. And what is so "slick" about it is that it has so many Christians hooked on his twisted way of sharing the Gospel.
It is confrontational and legalistic. It is a hit and run, in-your-face style that is unbiblical and usually does more harm than good. Some of the tracts WoM uses are actually blasphemous!! Using caricatures of famous people - reflection of Comfort's pragmatic and flawed approach to evangelism.

Sadly, in the current environment in the Church there is so little discernment that pastors and the sheep latch onto a system that is programmed rather than just depending upon the pure Word of God. There is nothing wrong with having a concise Gospel presentation that covers all the bases, in fact there are some that are quite good, but this one because of the slick marketing promotions is widely used without testing it like good Bereans.

Marion said...

Hi Sam...noticed your comment, and thought I would repost some info I posted here on the Aimee McPherson article...your suspicions are correct...hope it helps...

"You know, BB...that whole "foursquare" gospel thing sounded so "masonic" to me...went digging...look what I found...

" As an Entered Apprentice you are a learner, a beginner in Speculative Masonry. You have taken the first steps in the mastery of our art. And it is because you have this rank that certain things are expected of you.

First, you must learn certain portions of the Degree, so as to prove your proficiency in open Lodge. But you are to learn these parts not merely to pass this test; you should master them so thoroughly that they will remain with you throughout life, because you will have need of them many times in the future.

Second, you must learn the laws, rules, and regulations; by which, an Entered Apprentice is governed.

As you stood in the northeast corner of the Lodge during your initiation, you were taught a certain lesson concerning a cornerstone. The meaning of that lesson should now be clear to you.

You are a cornerstone of the Craft. The day will probably come when, into your hands, will fall your share of the responsibilities of the Lodge. You are a cornerstone on which the fraternity is being erected.

It is our hope and expectation that you will prove a solid foundation, true and tried, set foursquare on which our great Fraternity may safely build."

BUT...the Word of God says...
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 3:11)"

Bornagain Soldier said...
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Bible Believer said...

Sam thanks, yeah I wondered about that. One thing for most of this stuff, they will have the SURFACE explanation, even when they do the Horus Eyeball or overt stuff, they got them. I agree with Marion who posted that masonic quote, that there is something dubious about the FOURSQUARE name and obviously, the Templar crowd, and chalice doesn't do any favors for that logo either.

Bible Believer said...

I watched Way of the Master this was years ago. I wrote the other day here, on a comment I thought the way they presented the gospel was odd, why would an unbeliever be convicted by the 10 commandments? Sometimes when watching the show, I got the feeling the non-believers were telling Comfort or others what they wanted to hear, to get them out of their faces rather then showing true faith. Especially when the focus of the witnessing is how many commandments that person has broken and having the person list how many sins they've done. LOL reminded me of Catholic confession but this time with a camera.

Hey I believe street preaching has worth and passing out tracts, "Compel them" but I found a lot that was questionable.

Conviction about sin comes AFTER SALVATION via the Holy Spirit. There were things I didn't even realize were sins, during my lost days. So agree with you about the gospel being presented in an odd way. Even there they seem to be over-focused on their FORMULA and telling people if you say this and that, it will get people saved. Hey we see this in the 180 movie where they say a certain conversation etc, will change people's minds about abortion. Sorry but until a person is born again, they will not discern the evil that is abortion to it's full extent.

Comfort and Cameron, seemed like they were "nice" guys to me when I was watching the show though I thought they presented the gospel kind of oddly, even then I asked why is Cameron hanging out with that TBN lot?

They both seem to be a bridge between the Vision Forum/Dominionist lot and the Word of Faith prosperity types who well are Dominionist too. Perhaps to give credibility to both groups?

Yeah Cameron has hung out with Glenn Beck, the ties do go on and on. They all seem to know each other, certain ones promoted and kicked up stairs, and so forth and so on.

I agree people are latching on to systems and formulas and all the rest, anything they think will make things easier, or get those "numbers" in the seat. I feel uneasy watching so many pastors who want to say "hey look how many converts I've gotten!" and Comfort/Cameron obviously think their formula will mean more saved people. One thing some of these preachers need to realize its NOT ABOUT YOU, its about God.

Bible Believer said...

Ezekiel 36:26

King James Version (KJV)

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Anonymous said...

Bornagain Soldier is absolutely right about the "lordship salvation" lie.

Also to Bible Believer, yes, Comfort got people to say this and that on television, but as you know, it is television. The biggest psy-op the world has ever known.

Anonymous said...

Good point BAS - yes, they put people under the law through the 10 Commandments and then the false teaching of Lordship Salvation. It emphasizes a performance-oriented salvation rather than a grace-based salvation.

Makes sense. I saw Cameron once when he had John MacArthur on the program. JMA is big on LS.

The LS error is more subtle but just as deadly.

Cameron is also Calvinist and so is MacArthur. He softpedals it so he can be more widely accepted and it has worked well for him.

Sam said...

Thanks for your comments Bible Believer and also your's Marion. Interesting...

I also don't like that formula style of preaching the gospel (I street preach myself. I LOVE the directness of it, the spontaneity of it, and it is good also for drawing individuals to talk to in a more personal conversation).

The TBN connection with Way of the Master to my way of thinking discredits the whole ministry of Comfort's I believe. Something else I wonder about is a strong mind control element between Comfort and Kirk.

Bornagain Soldier said...
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Bible Believer said...

Yes I agree about the performance oriented salvation rather then a grace-based one. I wouldn't be surprised if Cameron and Comfort are hooked in with the Calvinists too.


""Kirk Cameron gave one of the most sincere, simple, powerful statements of the Gospel I have ever heard."
- John Piper - Desiring God Ministries"

John McArthur gives one of the endorsements too.

Bible Believer said...

Glad to hear you street preach Sam, keep up the good work. I think the TBN stuff too discredits them. Way of the Master seems to be one of those "bridge" ministries, connecting everyone from the Word of Faith types to the Calvinists, across the board.

I always saw Comfort as the one directing Cameron. Maybe not as much now, but in early days..definitely yes.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks BAS, I am glad you agree. It has nothing to do with our own works. I had enough of that in Catholicism. It is about Grace. I know I was convicted of my sins after salvation as well. I remember too, the first time I prayed after salvation regarding my sins as well, and relate to you about the heavy weight being lifted.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This verse outlines the order here...

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Bornagain Soldier said...
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Anonymous said...

JESUS CHRIST IS LORD! King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Rev 19:16

He is Lord over all creation, the Sabbath and both the redeemed and the damned. Acknowledge Him now, or acknowledge Him later. That’s the choice before all of us. Matt 28:18; Phil 2:9-11

Anyone questioning Jesus’ authority reveals their unbelieving heart. Luke 20:1-8

I say the following bluntly, but it's meant in love for those who are adamant about "lordship = optional": Claiming that wretched sinners, saved by the grace of God through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, can perform a “work” by acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord is the height of error and audacity. It is by God’s unmerited grace that we are made able to recognize Jesus Christ for who He really is.

God’s Word says that Jesus is Lord, over and over again. Denying this fact will result in denying the truth of the Bible, and denying who Jesus is. Is that the right attitude for a saved person?

Matthew 22:41-46
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Sincerely, Aka Alert

Anonymous said...

And, by the way, my previous comments are not to be construed as an endorsement of any individual celebrity teacher discussed here, some of whom I know little about. I only want to stick to what the Word of God says. Aka Alert

Bornagain Soldier said...
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Anonymous said...

Hi Born Again Soldier,

Sorry if my previous comments came across as being made pointedly to you, I didn’t intend that. I was just trying to respond to the critical drift of the numerous comments on “Lordship Salvation”.

But since you responded, I rejoice that Jesus is your Lord and Savior. Actually I got that from your other posts, but isn’t it great to say it again?

Here are my thoughts, which are for everyone here in the conversation….

I’m a little bit familiar with this controversy, having read a while ago one of John MacArthur’s books, ‘The Gospel According to the Apostles’. I’ve also read a number of other articles written by authors both pro and con regarding this view. I’m not however, an expert on this topic, or am I knowledgeable on how each different teacher personally interprets this issue (i.e. Ray Comfort etc.).

My main takeaway from the controversy is that it’s called “Lordship Salvation” precisely because it was dubbed that by its very detractors, who regard the Lordship of Jesus Christ as a non-essential in the salvation and daily life of believers.

I understand the opposing view (non-lordship) as seeing Jesus’ Lordship as entirely separate from his role as Savior, and further, that it is somehow a “work” done by the sinner to “make” Jesus the Lord of their life.

I will state it plainly – God extends the unmerited gift of grace to a sinner who is dead in their trespasses and sins (which I once was), and enables them to have faith in Jesus Christ, as Lord and Savior. It’s a gift from the Father to recognize Jesus for who He is, it’s not a work that any man of flesh and blood can do. (Matt 16:17)

I wonder why, why would any Christian want to, or think they can, hold a diminished view of the status of the Son of God?

I don’t recall noting that the timing of repentance in salvation was the primary issue at all. I think we can all agree that repentance is enabled by the regenerating gift of God, and is always part of the salvation event in the life of every believer.

So, as we wrap up this conversation, my earnest desire for myself and my plea for everyone is to search the scriptures for the truth. Sincerely Aka Alert

Matt 16:15-17 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Anonymous said...

I found this article helpful and biblical, and easier to post, than formulating my own lengthy response here. I do not "follow" any man nor am I committed to any group by use of such material. It merely reflects what I have learned in my own study of the Scriptures on this particular subject.

Bornagain Soldier said...
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Anonymous said...

"Lordship salvation" is garbage that comes from the catholic cult. That's its roots.

Jesus' salvation is free, because He paid it all.

shilosontheleft said...

My son was going to the Valley's big Mosque every Friday the first half of this year and was just trying to develop friendships, dialogue, and witnessing to the folks there.
Things were going pretty well; he had some who would seek HIM out and invite him into the Mosque and email him and call him to talk.
Once, when he couldn't be at the Mosque for several Fridays, one of the Muslims came to my son's church looking for him BECAUSE HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT HIM!
This young man had been interviewed on FOXNEWS and some British television stations in the past so he had some notoriety.

Anyway, the weekend they had the Arab Festival at the Maricopa County Fair grounds, a lot of out of towners came to Phoenix.
THAT Friday there were a new group of "Christians" at the mosque.
When my son arrived, the guy I'd call the Mosque Manager came storming over to my son and wanted to know, "Who are these people! What do they want?".
Seems there had been a pushing/yelling altercation between he and a young fellow with a video camera.
Seems these California "Christians" were asking about Aiasha (Mohammed's 9 year old bride) and other controversial issues then catching it on video when the Muslims reacted in anger.

HOW does this tie in to the above post?
This "MINISTRY" was started by Ray Comfort then turned over to the young man who got a few bruises and skin tears when the camera was shoved into his face.
Can't say that I feel sorry for the kid.
Instead of trying to bring Muslims to Christ he was simply trying to get GOTCHA VIDEO for some "Christian" YOUTUBE site he'd post to show how RADICAL he was.
He was undermining the work of others just so he could look cool to the folks back home.... and make a buck in the process....oops... I mean, get folks to SUPPORT HIS MINISTRY.

Anonymous said...

Bill Gothard is now out of a job:

He sexually pursued some women around him, and the whistle has blown, and it's all over.

You find that these guys that are the most about extreme legalistic "family values" like Bill Gothard and Doug Phillips, end up being some of the greater perverts in our time.

Bible Believer said...

That's too bad about the young man seeking notice instead of desiring to preach the word.

Yes I heard about the lastest with Gothard. It seems they all overcompensate acting overly righteous to hide endless sins.

I always wondered why he never married? Closet Jesuit with celibacy vows? It is odd isn't it.

It was strange how this forever bachelor man declared himself the religious expert on marriage and the raising of children.

Bible Believer said...

I was going to post on it but decided not to, there's a point where all these guys kind of blur together.