Saturday, September 1, 2012

Answering Eric Barger: What's Wrong With Creeds?

Read this article I wrote today, this one is paired with it:

"Answering 'When Discernment Turns Ugly"


Notice on here where he speaks of "secondary issues" that were mentioned in the "When Discernment Turns Ugly" article.



Ah here we can see Eric Barger's love of those early church fathers and defense for "historical" Catholic creeds for ourselves. I feel rather gladdened that it seems others have called him out as well but sad that here is yet another teacher mixing truth with lies.

The Apostles Creed - "Catholic" ???

Yes Eric they are Catholic. as in Roman Catholic church, as in harlot derived.

Catholic to the core, and while some Protestant daughters adapted both, they are wrong in doing so.

The Nicene creed is more apt to be the one recited at Mass, though the Apostles creed is used on occasion. The apostles creed is part of the CATHOLIC ROSARY in fact. I said enough of them as a child, so I remember. This picture is from a Catholic diocese website: [the blue circle and arrow are from me to point out that the apostles creed is to be recited in the rosary.

Reciting that God is "real" and exists, does not make one a Christian.

I stood for years in the RCC, reciting the dead rote lines, I even probably had them memorized at one time. Most of the Catholic churches I was in recited the Nicene Creed though every now and then it would be other variations including the Apostles. Reciting a creed at every Catholic Mass in fact is a requirement. I probably stated this creed hundreds of times while I was lost and if not for God's grace definitely on the way to hell. I even said it to please man, and parents, getting lost in the words, believing NONE of it. It didn't matter for those who did believe it, in that while they assented to God's "reality", they had not been born again and were deceived by a false gospel. To be frank, I have to admit, it makes me sick watching some guy, put himself out there, as warning against the Emergent movement and then advancing what is core Catholicism and daughter Protestant rituals.

He writes here:

Here is one comment:

1) of, relating to, or forming the church universal b often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it.

As indicated here, the word "catholic" means "universal." If we are born again then we're a part of that Church, the "catholic" or universal Church around the world. However, we are not a part of the Roman Catholic Church.

Hmm I've seen Catholic apologists write the exact same except for the last cover sentence for years.

Now keep in mind while I write this, this guy has done seminars, videos etc, with Missler, Roger Oakland and a multitude of other names people should be familiar with on this blog. Now, for a long time, I have said the end game plan is to lead everyone down the road to deception and to Rome.

Why on earth would any Christian want to use the word CATHOLIC for anything.

And who cares if it means UNIVERSAL?

The Unitarian Universalists even named themselves for being UNIVERSAL!

Oh and I didn't miss where he wrote "HISTORICALY CONTINUITY", aka the church of Rome and early church fathers.

I am not surprised he had offended Ex-Catholic readers. I mean he is taking them DIRECTLY back. Let's pray God will show them the deceivers in our midst, who cannot even define what a born again Christian even IS. That can be a positve when these preachers show their cards so directly. Hopefully they will pay attention with teachers like this praise and advance the things of Rome and see through the light window coverings.

Creeds are not a profession of true faith. They have nothing to do with salvation. The Bible tells us even demons admit God is REAL, and TREMBLE.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Think about that one for a minute.A Demon could state the Apostles creed or Nicene creed and be fine with it. Both creeds are useless. Why? because even Satan could recite it, because after all Satan knows God is "real" and that those things "happened".
Faith in God is beyond just admitting that Jesus Christ is a "real" being.

Repenting and having faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord of your life is far different then just reciting a rote memorization excercise that Jesus Christ is "real".

The church recites the creed and most of them are doing it from memory. its more vain repetition.The Apostles creed at least while I was a Catholic though this may have changed since things have gone towards Latin, was the MOST POPULAR ONE.

So where does that creed declare Jesus Christ as your Savior? What do any of those creeds have to do with biblical salvation? Nothing.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Here is the Apostles Creed. [WARNING CATHOLIC LINK, yes the Apostles Creed that Eric Barger so favors IS USED in THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH ALL OVER THE PLACE]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Notice, this creed just states God, the Holy Spirit etc, are real. It has nothing to do with salvation, or saving faith.

"The holy Catholic church"....that line keeps so many in the harlot and the daughters.

"Communion of saints"....Well Eric Barger won't tell you this, but this is the line where Rome teaches that one can pray to the "dead" like Mary. I was Catholic over 20 years, I had this and the other one recited and taught to me so often with added on the Catholic teachings, it wasn't funny. "Communion of saints" by the Catholic lexicon means, that TODAY you can pray and talk to any number of saints, and Catholics are instructed not to just pray to Mary but to many other SAINTS. Of course saint as defined by the Roman Catholic church is far different then what a biblical saint is.

"forgiveness of sins" notice how this creed does not state how they are forgiven or anything about the salvation in Jesus Christ that forgives sins. Same for "life everlasting", really meaningless in the fact that all will go to "eternity" but not necessarily heaven! After all, in the Catholic church, Purgatory remains part of that formula.

Then there is the Nicene creed. It contains endless Catholic doctrines and more.

The Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

With this one there are many errors

All this talk of creeds and "church history" [ie much of that "history" skewed and written by Rome!.Hey that is the plan, bringing in evangelicals to embrace all from Rome, and with teachers like this, why wouldn't they be?

These Creeds are FULL OF ERRORS.

"God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God"

This part is odd, God MADE LIGHT.

Gen 1:3    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

"begotten, not made, one in being with the Father."

We don't need Rome to define the Trinity. Of course this is one claim they make to try and have people buy into their false history.

"We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church".

This line obviously promotes Rome's false apostolic succession. The Roman Catholic church seriously believes that their clergy are TODAY'S APOSTLES.

"We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins."


Baptismal regeneration is another lie. The ritual of baptism does not forgive sins.

"We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." 

THIS world is going to end. Another lie.

There are millions of unsaved people reciting these dead creeds everyday in dead churches. I was one of them. Saying this creed does not mean you are a biblical Christian, it does not denote anything about being born again in Jesus Christ.

Ed Decker wrote this but it was published on Eric Barger's Website, Take a Stand Ministries.

Upon These Creeds!

It almost sounds like a priest wrote it.

"Yet, from the very first statements of faith by the first Christians to the confession of the simple Doxology today, we see a uniformity of purpose and doctrine which we must define as Christian Orthodoxy. To step outside the general theology of these confessions must be viewed as acts of Heresy."

The praise of Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaueus, and other Roman Catholic early church fathers says it all.

Please Pray for the Mormons leaving that false church who may encounter these ministries. 



15 comments:

Bible Believer said...

I wrote this article quickly but wanted to add later I may come back and add a few more quotes....and more commentary. Real life beckons....

I wanted to get this up quick, because of what it say about the "faith" of Eric Barger and the "secondary issues" he brought up in the discernment article to put the whole picture out there.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

God makes it clear in His Word what He thinks of "vain repetitions" which would include "canned" prayers.

Anonymous said...

Well said on every point.

William Saunders said...

This is excellent!!

Bornagain Soldier said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

I agree, regarding canned "prayers" and vain repetitions. Definitely. Many state this in a feeling of it being "just words".

Thanks William and Born again Soldier.

Bible Believer said...

I'll put more comments here...

http://www.ericbarger.com/apostlescreed.history.htm

More from Eric Barger"

"First, we know historically that the Apostles Creed (A.C.) is the oldest such creed of the Church and has been around long before the advent of Romanism."

No proof of that.

When does he think Romanism started?

Mystery Babylon was there from the get-go.

"I know that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) has claimed it as their own but that doesn't necessarily make it theirs, at least not without a proper Protestant protest anyway. Following are some facts."

Silly....he admits the Catholics use it, so why should it be useful for Christians. Using the things from the tables of devils...

"Like many of the teachings in the early Church, the Apostles Creed was passed down from one generation to another"

False teachings passed down.

Just because something is passed down from generation to generation does not make it true. This is one lie told in Catholic apologetic circles, where they say the AGE of something gives it creedance, no it does NOT!
"Though the early Church leaders dealt with many other doctrines and practices outside those spoken of in the A.C., the Creed's original form enumerated the non-negotiable doctrines and truths upon which our faith rests."

So Barger's faith rests on the same "truths" as Romes? Remember too where I warn about the ecumenical stuff, the Apostles Creed is being used here to strip things down, so far, it's not funny.

"I am confident that the A.C. is not a Roman Catholic invention steeped in RCC edicts."

I'm not. The Catholic edicts are stated right in both.

" Historically, the earliest trace of the Apostle’s Creed goes back to Ignatius, who lived in the late first and early second centuries AD - long before the roots of Romanism began to abscond with and pervert the faith. "

False

The Apostles themselves warned us of GRIEVOUS WOLVES that would enter RIGHT in at their time, and they DID.

Ignatius was a FALSE TEACHER.

I spent my own time slogging through their writings to make sense of all this stuff before.

I've mentioned some of those false teachings HERE. There are FAR more.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/re-daughter-protestant-article.html



"Though the RCC claims ownership of the A.C., it is believed that the early church father Hippolytus may have influenced the formation of the Creed as well."

Another false teacher. Hippolytus, was a named example for ORIGEN

and if you know anything about Origen and the Alexandrian School and have studied anything about this stuff, the above statement by Barger will nauseate you even more.

"The Creed was crafted to:

1) Be a statement of faith to the world of exactly what this new sect known as “Christians” believed."

Preaching the gospel is what they were instructed to do.

"A major focus by Church leaders in the second century (known in Church history as "the Age of the Apologists") was to rebuke, refute, and correct cultic heresies (such as Marcionism and Docetism). Note that Marcion or Sinope lived in the mid-second century, dying in AD 160, well before the rise of Romanism."

Don't let this stuff fool you, while yes there are crazy cults galore historically, keep in mind here to wipe this stuff away knowing that Rome 'wrote the history"

Early grievous deceivers.

And we can see the evidence here, that Barger is advancing the same councils, the same early church fathers, that Rome today advances.

The Apostles Creed reinforced and affirmed the Trinity. It clearly enunciated the humanity and deity of Jesus Christ. It reinforced the equality of Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son. The Creed dealt with sin, judgment, and the resurrection of each and every human being.

He is trying to deceive this poor ex-Catholic writer, making excuses for the false doctrinal statements in these creeds.

All back to Rome.

Bible Believer said...

Oops forgot quotes...

"The Apostles Creed.....every human being" is Barger's statement.

Joe Krohn said...

Aren't you being a little legalistic?

I don't think you are being fair with your assessment of these confessions of faith. It tells me that you do not understand what they are saying. Granted, I know the RCC has kind of screwed things up for you. But there is nothing wrong with the term 'catholic'. It was the RCC that hijacked what was good, right and salutary. Martin Luther did well in not throwing out the baby with the bathwater...so to speak. But it seems this is what you want to do with all things 'churchy'. These creeds were formulated long before the corrupted RCC came along. For that matter there has never been any perfect visible church. Don't get me wrong, my heart goes out for you and I pray you find peace.

Nat said...

The points made here a quite valid, but have you ever heard Rich Mullin's song Creed? "I did not make it. It is making me. It is the very truth of God, not the invention of any man." That lines says a lot to me amid all the man-made gospels that surround us.

Just wanted to make this conjecture.

Bible Believer said...

Joe,

I recited BOTH of these confessions of "faith" while in the Catholic church, it was meaningless, I wasn't even a Christian. Assent to God's existence is NOT saving biblical faith. A person must be born again.

I know they tell Protestants and others to stick to that word "catholic" but why? What is good about "universal", the RCC more and more has told it's daughters they are "one" with it. Benedict even praised Martin Luther acouple years ago.

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/26/why-pope-benedict-like-martin-luther/

Much of what is CHURCHY is departed from the gospel and what is in the Bible. Ask yourself when did the apostles ever preach, "GO RECITE a CREED? This is the traditions of men Jesus warned about.

Look the wolves were in right when the apostles were around, Simon Magus, etc, so the age of the would be creeds matters not.

Bible Believer said...

Creeds don't convict.

I know so many lost people who have stood there saying that thing, week after week, and it means nothing.

I don't agree with that singer.

What is a CREED except to say God is real, and there is a heaven and hell.

Ok what does that mean in the scheme of things if a person never has been born again and do not have the HOly Spirit indwelling?

jesusremainskingofkings said...

Hey, do you mind telling me why Catholicism's promotion of Iraeneus is a bad thing?

I'm interested.

Anonymous said...


This so called bible believer is full of hatred against the catholic church. No matter what lies you are saying you cannot destroy the true Church of Christ which is the Catholic church. :P.

According to the ten commandments
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
And why do you bear lies and falsity against us Catholics? Are you from satan? and Where in the bible that the bible is the only thing we can believe in?

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Bible Believer said...

What lies, name some?

Come out of the false church that claims all religions lead to God.

You are right I hate that false religion system [not the people in it] because it is leading millions to hell if not billions.