Sunday, August 19, 2012

Scary Article on Christian Post


Don't Slap Christ's Wife

We may have problems with the church. We may have a list of things we would like to see improved with the way church is done in the 21st Century. But we should never let our healthy evaluation of the church and her effectiveness descend into bashing the bride of Christ.

There are those today who analyze, criticize and discount the church as if she is a useless relic of the past. I have read "experts" who have said we should forsake the organized church and just have Bible studies in our homes. But a church without a team of godly shepherds leading it is not a church at all, it's a group of rebels who have decided that they know better than God's plan for church organizational structure (which, by the way, is clearly laid out in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3.)

Again, this doesn't mean that we refuse to see real faults in the church. It means that we recognize them and then jump in to try to fix them with a heart of service and love for the people of God.

We need to honor the church. She is the fire in which all of our embers stay burning white hot for Christ. She is the community in which we all live and minister to each other. She is a collection of saints from male to female, black to white and rich to poor who have one thing in common, our eternal soulmate, Jesus Christ.

Slap my wife and I'll punch you in the throat (and ask for forgiveness later.) I cringe to think what Christ would do.

I remember witnessing to people during my Christian message board days, trying very hard to have them see outside the apostate church system, in this case the Catholic one or other church cults. So many define "The church" as the official organizations, the bricks, buildings, seminaries and networks. Christian believers know different that the church is the ekklesia, the "called out ones", those who are the true saints of God, those who are born again. Obviously this is one error this pastor promotes. The "church" is not where the one guy leads the whole show, but

Matt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


It is scary to read some of the writings of these guys, two men look at his wife [no touching or saying anything] and while they are lustful in attitude, he goes up to them with a clenched fist. I can understand a man wanting to defend his wife and they should but such a level of anger, seems inappropriate to the situation. What about the comment at the end about "punching" someone in the throat and asking for forgiveness later? Remember he is using that "wife" as an analogy for his church there. That is pretty scary for a "pastor" to write. I have noticed this trend of "TOUGH GUY" pastors who are so busy posturing, it's scary. They have adopted the actions of the world. I don't know about you, but I see the bar room as a place where men would have fistfights over a man looking the "wrong way" at his woman. I suppose one could comment about how America is entering into a wicked culture where thoughtfulness and peacemaking are now seen as only the domain of "wimps". Even his "christ" is presented as a "tough guy" as he writes "lets not test him". And what is that weird soulmate stuff? Is God your soulmate? He is the Creator of the universe, He is to the believer, "Abba, Father". I found that strange. Soulmates are equals it is part of the definition of soul mates which is a New Age concept.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Even if he thinks he is defending the "Christian" church, did he miss the extensive bible chapters about what the response to persecution should be? Is beating people up the proper spiritual response? Hey it will be for the antichrist church and well worse. Rome put so many of "saints" to the stakes for "bashing" "their church", see where I am going with that?

Notice those who have left the church system are considered "rebels". I dare say as we get closer to the last days and the building of the apostate antichrist church, this will be the attitude of towards those who refuse to "join with it".

Didn't Rome call those who refused to go to Mass "rebels" as well?

Take a look, even the Christian Post commenters weren't happy with this guy.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

~Labby
It's never healthy to put a "bride" into a dangerous situation. The most loving thing is to take the church out of the dangerous situation, and if the pastors dont' step up and do it, the individual believers will do it themselves. Who does he want to punch, but shouldn't that hit be directed at the heretics who push all of the perilous messages, right? So those who step out of a bad situation should be cared for and treasured, not called rebels, unless their behavior warrants such names, but doubtful.

shilosontheleft said...

Quote: "There are those today who analyze, criticize and discount the church as if she is a useless relic of the past. I have read "experts" who have said we should forsake the organized church and just have Bible studies in our homes. But a church without a team of godly shepherds leading it is not a church at all, it's a group of rebels who have decided that they know better than God's plan for church organizational structure (which, by the way, is clearly laid out in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3.)"

WWJD?
What jesus did was to forsake being baptized by a bastard priest in a bastard Temple.
Jesus went out into the Wilderness to JOHN THE BAPTIST, a breakaway group leader of a breakaway group who were SOUGHT AFTER BY THE ESTABLISHMENT RELIGIOUS JEWS!!
Note: They were not sought after to be given accolades.
John's head was removed shortly thereafter.
Of course they killed Jesus shortly thereafter also.

I told my teenage children back in the early 90s, "The time is coming when you will have to make a decision of whether you will serve Christ or you will succumb to the world. The religious Christians will be your worst enemy because they do not want to be associated with Bible Believing Christians who "make them look bad".
Could I now say: THE TIME HAS COME, ARMOUR UP.
Ephesians 6: Put on the FULL ARMOUR OF GOD folks, Religious Christians realize that you are their enemy and they plan to do something about it.

Anonymous said...

There is much more here than meets the eye. Digging deeper, one finds that the author is a leader of youth in an organization called "Dare2Share".

The ministry has an emergent flavor with "engaging the culture" and using music as a tool to reach youth. The site says that Christian music has made great strides in recent years to "compete" with secular music. Rather, Christian music has become more like secular and more worldly.

One will find "Purpose Driven" material available on their online store. And the guy sounds like he has subscribed to the Mark Driscoll
masculinity philosphy.

This is truly sad and one can only wonder how many churches are sending their young people to the Dare2Share conferences supposedly to learn how to share Christ when in fact they are being led astray.

Anonymous said...

An additional comment regarding the content of the article. The author's account of how he handled the men who were looking over his wife did not glorify Christ, rather it made his look like a thug. A gentleman would have addressed it firmly and quietly, showing an inner strength - it was a very fleshly act.

One commenter rightly pointed out that believers are the BRIDE of Christ, not a wife. Christ will return for His Bride and then will come the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in heaven. Until we are safely home there will be suffering and rejection from the world. We are to be salt and light and carry the uncompromised Gospel to the lost through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not our words, but the Words of God as recorded in Scripture. I shudder to think what message Dare2Share is spreading.

Kayfabe said...

I was married before and if I would've confronted every guy that lustfully looked at my wife I would have been fighting almost every day. So how's about being a christian and turning the other cheek? Many of these Pastors that try to come off as tough guys are cowards when they are out of their cocoon protection. I went to Calvary Chapel Montebello this past Wednesday to pass out fliers about Greg Laurie because they were having a Harvest Rally and the Pastor sent his goon sqaud out to confront me even tho I was on public property. Its like Pastor why don't you see what I'm doing for yourself instead of sending your secret service to do your dirty work. The article is not suprising being that the False Harlot Church system idolizes the Military so in their eyes might makes right. I was also told to stop passing out gospel of Johns at a Catholic carnival this weekend but yet they sold beer there. There will come a time when those in the Institutional church system will think they are doing a work of God by killing, beating and imprisoning the true bible believing Christians. The divide between institutional christians and underground christians is beginning, I'm already persona non grata to my former Calvary peeps.

Bible Believer said...

I wrote on this blog, and elsewhere long ago, once the Antichrist was in full power, it wasn't the atheists, new agers, etc, that would be persecuting the true Christians the most but a repeat of the Inquisitions where it was the "religious" of society and the religious institutions [always married to gov't in these senarios--recall how Rome had each gov't do the actual dirty work]. I wrote this actually to emphasize that point about the article, one can see the hatred building for true Christians among the false so called "Christians". I agree the religious "Christians" will be the ones to do this work [yes they will enlist the help of some other unbelievers as well]

Recall this Bible verse

John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Of course this is happening elsewhere in the world NOW.

America we enjoyed a time of freedom that is most likely drawing to a close.

Bible Believer said...

Shilo

VERY Interesting observation, yes Jesus went outside the then "organized" church system. That should be an example for us. For those who insist we return to the "temples"

Visiting churches as I have, while there are good sincere although clueless or disobedient-ignoring commands of God, people too, one can feel what is in the air, towards the "dissenters". Remember what their false pastors preach about those they call "rebels" or "fundamentalists".

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1555425/posts

Bible Believer said...

Yes I agree this guy has fallen sway to the Mark Driscoll tough preacher stuff. Why wouldn't the NWO not only want the apostate preachers preaching false things but also acting in ungodly manners. What a way to influence a young pastor for evil and many have fallen for it. The world emphasizes being "tough" and "hard" and now these guys are acting out the same messages. There is no Christianity in that. Thanks Kayfabe for sharing your experience, one thing I learned about bullies is unless they got their group backing them up they are most often cowards. I wonder why they didn't come out to talk to you either. You have the right to be on public property.

Yes this definitely ties to the "might makes right" Dominionist militarist thinking. Hey when everything is about acquiring power and getting over on other people it is always about who is the "TOUGHEST". I saw some of this tough guy "swagger" stuff among pastors myself, it really is something that will aggrieve a Christian. There is enough hardness in this world under the wiles of the devil. This is not how Christians are supposed to be or act.

I totally agree with this comment:

"The divide between institutional christians and underground christians is beginning, I'm already persona non grata to my former Calvary peeps."

I lost friends even leaving the Calvary Chapel church too. Kayfabe. Keep up your good work passing out the gospel and warning.

Bible Believer said...

I checked Dare2share, yes it looks very Emergent. More of the usual "vision focused, rock bands, lights etc, to appeal to the youth.

http://www.gregstier.org/my-story/

"Brush with greatness: One of my best friends growing up, Scott Derrickson, co-wrote and directed the movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose"

Weird.

I hope he told his friend that Catholic exorcism's are false and of Satan. I know people who have written things I do not agree with. But the above is not something I'd be proud of.

Bible Believer said...

I agree about the looking like a thug. The last thing young people need to be told is to get physical over other young men looking at their women [or wife]. That causes enough trouble in certain circles. How many young men get in physical altercations over such minor matters and over "girlfriends"?
I agree about a man being firm there and not in the flesh. I agreed with one of the Christian Post commenters who said believers are the Bride of Christ not a wife too.

I do pray for all the young people, especially ones all these seminars are designed to sway into false Christianity.

Anonymous said...

C'mon guys, just look at this guy, he's way too cool for you and me. We just can't handle this level of coolness, I mean, you see the shirt, the posturing. We can't relate to the cool.

;)

I'm being facetious of course.

"Brush with greatness: One of my best friends growing up, Scott Derrickson, co-wrote and directed the movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose"

Again with the connections. Notice another example, some pastor "connected" in the entertainment and/or governmental communities. Not a coincidence.

Where's the frumpy uncool unconnected pastors? I know they're out there, but they're not available on "Christian Post", since it is a tool of Rome anyway.

Anonymous said...

Kayfabe,

Please don't misunderstand or be offended, and this is not to question your heart and intent.

But this method of trying to get the truth out will only result in causing confrontation, oftentimes physical and most often generates an angry reaction and is rarely if ever received under those circumstances. In fact, it could backfire and result in an even greater devotion to Greg Laurie. You are preceived as an enemy and a trouble maker. They don't know you and assume you are a threat. This is in no way a defense for them, but we are living in a day when crazies launch attacks on church groups and even most recently, a cult group in Wisconsin. Everyone is on high alert.

People who attend these Harvest crusades have been sold a bill of goods by their pastors and Greg Laurie is revered and respected. They are not going to listen to a stranger who is picketing and trying to "rain on their parade". It immediately puts them on the defensive. There is a facade of truth in these crusades and the sheep are clueless.

The most effective way is to deal with people one knows personally and present the truth speaking gently and in love preceded by much prayer. Then leave the results to God and continue to pray. Pray for God to open doors for you to share the information and He will.

As for passing out "Johns" at a Catholic carnival, the same applies. This is like casting pearls before swine. You obviously did this because you care about these folks. But you have to realize that they are out to have a fun time with their families. They are not in a receiving mode.

The Gospel and the Word of God need to be presented one-on-one and in an atmosphere where the person can listen, the Holy Spirit can work and it must be done in an attitude of love and concern for that individual. The heart must be fertile ground for the Gospel and softened, not hard.

At times we can be so zealous to get out the truth we operate in the flesh rather than depending upon wisdom and the Holy Spirit. Believe me, I speak from experience and the only reason I am commenting is to try and be of some help. I hope that you receive it in the spirit it is given. In no way do I mean to be critical.

If more people were alert and awake and eager to get out the truth the Church would not be in the sad state it is today. But we must be careful about how we go about it.

Bible Believer said...

I agree, about the "cool posturing". Notice the style of that cross on that T-shirt too. All these pastors, dress, act and speak the same, even ones from different parts of the country. It is tiring watching it all.

I have this feeling that introverts who are quiet and into studying the Bible, are finding the pastoral world not very welcoming right now and even there Satan has the early church fathers-Catholic-theologian dusty book trap waiting for them if they are not born again. I recently read this book that was interesting called "Quiet" , it is a secular book but made the point that we have changed from a "CULTURE OF CHARACTER" [ie morals etc] to a "CULTURE OF PERSONALITY". What happens in a society where everyone is focused most on their outward "appearance" and salesman ship skills?

Yeah notice the connections.

They are always HIGH up ones too, never I know a guy who is an EXTRA in B movies or runs the camera down at the local station news...

That by the way, is one of the creepiest movies out there. I would not even watch that trash to warn about it. Just the title is enough to warn a Christian away. Catholic exorcisms-witchcraft and mumbo jumbo giving the devil a place instead of doing true casting out of demons in Jesus's name.

I want to know where the UNCOOL UNCONNECTED pastors are too. Give me someone who is UNCOOL even who truly loves God and people and is SINCERE and interested in the truth. I dare say these types probably are being pushed out of the ministry in general. How is the quiet guy going to do at the denominations LEADERSHIP seminar?

Bible Believer said...

With Kayfabe, I do think if his group is staying on private land, '"compelling on the street" it is different if they are entering the churches or tents like that one Calvary Chapel pastor did. I know what you are warning about anon, one wants to avoid purposeful antagonization but then the days are here, where even peaceful preaching of the gospel will bring hatred. We do not want to tell fellow Christians or street preachers to go hide inside. I was led to salvation by a HATED street preacher. I actually as I befriended her told her I feared the neighborhood turning violent on her, and I was still in the UU. I praise God she did take the chances to be out in the street, angering people a bit. With the Catholics, I am glad he was there to pass out the gospel to them, there may be a few who COULD be reached. I was Catholic too and got Bibles and tracts from Christians which later bore some fruit. Those preaching God's Word and standing for truth, are going to make people MAD. I do not want to even write how much hate mail I get for this blog, of course lower risk then standing in the street. You are right we do have to think of the audience but when they are out there, there are always the individuals who would be open to receiving. That may be that Catholic teen's time to hear the gospel while he is out or that Calvary Chapel person's to hear the truth about their church. I had a blog TELL me and Wake me up about Calvary Chapel online, and well if I wasn't on line I would have appreciated being told in person. This was when news4themases posted WOE. I was having doubts while in there, I was concerned about the Dominionism, the Pentecostalism I didn't agree with, but that was something that did get me thinking. [I had chosen visiting a CC, not finding a decent local IFB after moving] I do not think the gospel should be limited to one on one. What if a person never makes a Christian friend"? When I met the street preacher I only knew UUs, pagans and Catholics and secularists.

I had contact with the gospel in PUBLIC and in the street and really that was the ONLY TIME I had contact with it, and that is life for many out there. There was a time even as an unbeliever I remember in my mind, standing in a major urban downtown, of another street preacher with the gospel on sandwich boards, and while I sat there and read and was not saved at that time, the message stayed in my head. One on one, witnessing is important too, do not get me wrong and done in an attitude of love and concern but I think streetpreaching does serve its purpose. Yes one has to do it with wisdom and with Holy Spirit. There are some who do go about it poorly, screaming "You all are going to go to hell" and not preaching of Jesus Christ's salvation This is not going to bear much fruit. [Look at the phony Westboro clan] but a Christian follow the directives of God, and doing "compelling in the street" can do much good. Remember the world is AGAINST the STREET PREACHERS.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/01/street-preaching-compel-them-to-come-in.html

Here I know I should do more publically rather then just hand out the occasional tract in the street. [I need to get more tracts] but do not dissuade those who are doing this.

One thing I find disturbing about the modern church system is very few go soul-winning anymore.

I was VERY hard-hearted when I heard the gospel and got tracts in the street but Gods Word worked on me. I lived near the street preacher and encountered her at least weekly for 4 years.

I know we need to operate from the bidding of the Holy Spirit too, and I understand the reason you are warning but guess I am presenting my side of this too. We have to remember the Bible warnings about dust of sandals, we have to avoid being a bad witness, etc. So I agree we need to test ourselves and pray to God about what we are doing and pray for leading of the Holy Spirit when it comes to witnessing to people.

Anonymous said...

Sadly we are living in an era of "hype of tripe" and the majority are eating it up. Ugh!

There are still the faithful pastors who are plowing their fields and watering their crops and caring for their flocks. You won't find them on TV or flashed in adverts and drawing crowds. But God notices them and they will be rewarded in His own time.

Kayfabe said...

Anon,

No offesnse taken, many family members are worried for my safety but I can't love my life even unto death. There was one brother at Calvary real open to the info I passed out and he was astonished that Greg Laurie and Rick Warren were connected and he seems like he is discerning the information I shared with him. Another woman was open as well but I had to use more wisdom with her as she had Harvest stickers all over her truck and I wanted to win her by cunning. At the Catholic festival I just passed out gospels of John and didn't really talk to anyone so I don't know how people felt about it altho a couple people seemed glad. A few people complained. I have preached against false teachers and false churches in a strong way and I have been hated for it. Lately I have been far more gentle and even keel but guess what, the level of hatred that I get from people is the exact same as when I preach strongly. That right there was my "Aha" moment.

shilosontheleft said...

Anon,
Sorry, can't help but notice that you sound like many CC pastors who get on these sites to shill and obfuscate.
The ONE THING a CC pastors tries to demand of someone who leaves is to go away quietly.
The truth is that methodical prayer and one on one is quite valuable but there is a place for both methods.
My mode might be more along the line of developing a website and then holding up the easy to remember web address for the adventuresome and/or curious to to look up later.
Kind of the like those John 3:16 fellows at the ball games.
Being prayerful before you go out and having faith that the Holy Spirit will quicken something in many folks is important also.

Anonymous said...

"But a church without a team of godly shepherds leading it is not a church at all..."

BUT,

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. (Psalm 23:1)

I have a Godly shepherd leading me and my little house church, in fact the Godly Shepherd who is God. To those who want to slap me for this, I say join the line of "shepherds" who have taken their punches. I will happily turn the other cheek and keep home churching, hidden safely in God's Word and protected from evil by His Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

The temple curtain was torn in two 2000 years ago.

Anonymous said...

How sure are you that the one you are defending is Christ's wife? Christ knows His church more than anyone. And he is pretty much capable of defending his bride. That is precisely the reason why he is coming back.

Anonymous said...

Shilosontheleft, don't know if you are referring to me - if so, you are way off base. I am NOT a defender of Calvary Chapel, but rather the opposite.

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that on his bio, he bills himself as a "twitchy revolutionary" and then uses the term rebel as a negative label for someone who seeks the word of God in a meaningful way. Yeah, i guess you wouldn't want to actually have a "Bible study," as in study the word of God.

Bible Believer said...

Anon, keep up the house churching. God bless you and it's fellow members.

Bible Believer said...

I wonder about those who want to "defend" the church, they sound just like Inquistors and ignore everything the Bible says about how to deal with persecution. Jesus Christ will defend us. The Church Triumphalists and modern evangelical church militant types have it all wrong.

Bible Believer said...

Kayfabe,

Keep up your good work. Trust me I know even if one is extremely gentle and kind, the same hatred will come out, and that is the point where you know you must leave the dust of the sandals. I had that happen with someone I was "witnessing" to recently so I walked on. A lot of the time for the seared that moment always comes, where they hate everything you stand for out of their own rejection of God.
I am glad you met someone who is open to the truth and listening. With some it may take more time and planting seeds to get them to wake up.

Anon, yeah I am allowing a few posts through of the one trying to obfuscate on here, I guess to show responses to their non-answers and "head in sand" solutions regarding to what is happening in the Christian churches. Yes, they do demand people go away quietly. There is a place for both methods, I agree, direct witnessing and one on one, and methods such as blogs.

I agree about praying when witnessing and letting God lead the way. I carry tracts in my purse [need to replenish the supply now] and have them on hand. You may end up in an opportunity where you are shown its time to directly witness to someone.

Bible Believer said...

I was curious about the whole "twitchy revolutionary" stuff. It bothered me. years ago I wondered aloud on a message board, if Rome was going to do the South American thing on America, and have us divided between the fascists and "revolutionary" types. I have to admit while I agree with many about bankers, corruption etc, I know the NWO is using the REVOLUTION talk to it's own devices [you know the Occupy movement]

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-going-global-and.html

I don't consider it a Christian sentiment to write, and "twitchy" whats that equated with a twitchy trigger finger. The whole thing creeped me out.
This goes along with their whole radical, cool, etc stuff.

Funny how he uses "rebel" language but then calls bible Christians rebels.

Hey they have twisted so much it is sickening.

Abider said...

I realize this is an older post,but have just now seen it.Very interesting comments.it's good to see discerning believers out there.Two scriptures, one of which is 'little' known.The first explains, the second instructs.
1 Cor.11:18-19 KJV For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. (19) For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
2Ti 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Selah

Truthseeker said...

Abider. What does the first verse mean? I'm not familiar with that verse from 1Corinthians.