Tuesday, August 14, 2012

An Early Symbol of the Jesus Movement.

Remember when I posted about the arrow pointing to the sky used by Greg Laurie and how this seemed to be based on an overt occult symbol? It's used by many more then just Greg Laurie:

Well accompanying this symbol is another of a hand with one finger pointing to the sky that started being used in the 1960's era Jesus Movement. I found this early website reporting on the Jesus Movement, and notice the finger with one digit pointing to the sky is a used symbol even THEN in the graphics.

I learned researching this hand sign that when it is  hand pointing up, it is called a SIGN OF PRESERVATION in masonic circles.  There is also another one called the Sign of Heaven and Earth, when one is pointing skyward and with one finger down towards the floor.  [not an endorsement of this website: Masonic Hand Signs]

Graphic found from Fanatic for Jesus:

"Don't believe me when I say that pointing the index is a masonic sign? Here are pictures from an old training manual used by freemasons, "Richardson's monitor of freemasonry". The bottom right drawing is taken from "Scotch Rite Masonry Illustrated Part 2" page 26

Here are four photos that are obvious intentional poses. Otherwise how could the photographer frame the camera to capture the index finger just at the edge like that? Pointing the finger away from the body is known in occult circles as "the sign of faith", while pointing upward is the "sign of preservation"."


This symbol is getting popularized in different circles along with the arrow. They call it the "One Way Jesus Sign". Is there anything biblical about this? Not really. Remember what I said about "Christian culture" being a trap of it's own making.

"Christian" magnet for sale with the "one way Jesus sign" [some sun rays thrown into this one]

Jesus Movement People making the ONE WAY sign...

This has been called the JOHN GESTURE [not a link endorsement] in occult circles.

Do you think I am too out on the fringes with this one? What do you think?

I don't want to make any gesture mandated by others and does not appear in the Bible. Yeah, I'll point at stuff in everyday life, but I am talking about purposeful logos and signs and gestures here. Remember they are leading people to worship "another jesus".

2 Corinthians 11:4

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


news4themasses said...

I researched CC's origination of that hand sign and I came up with Maria Woodworth Etter. It was a tangled web of Kathryn Khulman, Azusa St, etc. I just remember coming to the end of that to Etter. It made sense then and I shared that with some friends who thought I was crazy for that conclusion so I dropped it, never pursued that any further. I summed it up as being New Age, the one hand up and one hand down as, So above so below and I guess it seemed far fetched a few years ago but not so much now huh.

Bornagain Soldier said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rena said...

I don't think you are too far out. We need to be aware of the meanings of everything we do. There are evil forces at work against us to "decieve even the brethren". I left a comment on your blog about being out of the church, and one of the reasons that we rule out many churches is because of the staples on top of them and how they orginated and what they mean.

Jeff Bynum said...

You must be an evolutionist: believing that similarity of design automatically proves that one must come from the other. I find this article (at best) to be a weak accusation, and (at worse) slander against a group, and a time, that you obviously known nothing about. I was hoping that this blog might actually spend some time talking about our Lord and Savior Jesus, but that is obviously not the goal of this blog. I will not bother reading this garbage any further.

Bible Believer said...

Jeff Bynum did you read what the symnbol of the arrow pointing up means? As for the Jesus Movement, I am NOT a supporter, thought that was made clear long ago. They introduced many things at that time to lead Christians astray.


I don't know what aspect of this article bothered you, you seemed in agreement with others but it is your decision to go.

Bible Believer said...

There is no where in the Bible where Jesus taught for people to make hand signs to heaven. Why not ask where some of these 'Cultural" attributes came from?

I wish people would ask why certain things were done.

That hand sign is being used in other places, that other commenters such as Bornagain Soldier has mentioned. News4themases, I haven't heard the name Maria Woodworth Etter. May be interesting to look up.


Anonymous said...


Not sure about this one, but for me, it's something that I'll keep on the back burner and see. It sounds like you are not even sure yourself and are asking what we think. I get that.

For the commenter, Jeff, I understand especially if you are of the age group, like me, who lived the Jesus Movement. I literally have watched all this happen since the 70s and it's been interesting, but not something that I put together till recently. When I discovered the roots or history of the people involved, I became sickened by it, but it did answer many questions I had as a youth who was a little confused by much of it.

I believe people were saved in that movement, but I also see that the movement brought much that just is not good. Looking back at the history of Lonnie Frisbee and his relationship with Kathryn Kuhlman and Chuck Smith made we astonished as to why I never realized before that this stuff that they were pushing sounded great at the surface, but it stinks underneath. Laurel Canyon anyone?

I don't think BB is stating anything here that is slander, but I read into the post that it is something she is questioning and is asking if we see it or not.

When BB wrote about the Daughter churches, yes, I was a little taken aback. However, when we are pushed out of our comfort zone, we need to ask - why? Why does the subject matter cause me to feel defensive? As long as the argument is logical, factual, and Biblical, I will listen. I may not always agree, but I need to listen up.

Anonymous said...


One other thought regarding this site not preaching the gospel.

Each blogger has their own niche or area of ministry. Some preach the gospel, some alert to the dangers of the Emergent Church, some alert to the dangers of the prophetic movement, some on the music industry. Each has an area that they specialize in. You simply cannot be an expert in everything nor should one be.

This is a discernment website for believers and if I'm wrong, please correct me. I don't see this blog as being a seeker-driven or a blog for new believers, nor a blog for us to get our daily Bible study. I think she assumes we are doing that already.

news4themasses said...

The JP movement and their hand sign. I was directed by a CC pastor to "go look it up;" that it was used by the Jesus people movement, after I asked about it being posted on a website where a recent youth retreat was taken and the kids painted this great big hand with a finger pointing up. I'm too young to have participated in the JP movement. I was saved in 1997 and went to CC starting then, so as you can imagine I had no clue to their beginnings until more recently. When this "pastor" from the hippie era told me to research that sign, that is when I came to discover the whole history of the JP movement. I learned about Lonnie Frisbee, Kathryn Khulman, that Chuck Smith was a foursquare pastor (Aimee Mcpherson), and it sent the ball rolling if you will into a huge research time for me. I owe a lot to that hippie's exhortation to look it up! lol, that I most certainly did and rattled a lot of cages since then by exposing what I learned. I don't recall finding Masonic connections to it, but I went the route of where the JP's might have got it by looking at Aime Mcpherson and somehow it got back to Azuza street and that lady, Etter. Like I said, since it was 'laughed' at I just dropped the search, but I had enough at that point to know it was not original. Nothing new under the sun, as Solomon puts it! I guess one day if the Lord leads I may revisit that search but you did far better here and gave it just due. A lot of people point up when giving credit or glory to God and I don't think all of them are Masons or New Agers, but see how easily we are influenced and follow suit. I always thought the use of people with their arms open towards the sun was rather New Agey and yet you see it slapped on every "Christian" meditational or book cover, etc. It's everywhere, leaven, it leavens the whole lump!

Anonymous said...

Doing a good job BB.
Check out this church site:
You can note two things on this site
#1 is the O in Grove is a circle with a leaf that bears a strong resemblance to this snake biting his tail on Madam Blavatsky's logo:

#2 the tree with the roots seems to of course hail back to this Rick Warren Tree:

Which bears a strong resemblance to this AS ABOVE SO BELOW TREE:
http://www.thetwelvesigns.com/celestialblog/?p=296 (NOT AN ENDORSEMENT)

Of course you can find these occult logos on most of the emerging churches.
Note another v pointing up and a 5 pointed star

3 crescents forming a circle... crescents big nowadays

Has the As Above So Below triangles... though the up arrow is narrower.

Why is this cross on its side?

This ones kind of fun.
Scroll down to the bottom and click on the pic with Joel beside the photo of the inside of Lakewood Community Church.
Notice that the floor seating is arranged so that it looks like some of the graphics of Moloch... the stage is the head and horns.

I think MANY of these fellas are Free Masons, Rosicrucians, or some other occult secret society members.

Anonymous said...

How do you like this logo?
Crescents and stars are EVERYWHERE NOW DAYS... even on an online Bible site.
Of course Zondervan, publisher of the NIV, own this site so that explains the occult symbols without Free Mason influence.

Anonymous said...

I think this calls for balance. It is a common gesture to use the "pointer" finger. We can't assume that this is necessarily an evil gesture. In some cases it is, but in other cases it is not.

Can't it be possible that some use the "finger up" gesture to give glory to God and not themselves?

Certainly the wicked origins of CC cannot be denied, but one has to be careful not to condemn every use of the pointer finger as evil.

Lisa Ruby said...

Anonymous wrote:

"Can't it be possible that some use the "finger up" gesture to give glory to God and not themselves?"

The finger up gesture gives glory to the "god of this world" (who the occultists who use this symbol worship) but not the God of the Bible.

Excellent article, Bible Believer.

Lisa Ruby said...

Bible Believer wrote: "There is no where in the Bible where Jesus taught for people to make hand signs to heaven."

Jesus certainly did not teach people to "learn the way of the heathen." (Jer. 10:2) How wrong it is for the pseudo Christian leaders to teach Christians the way of the heathen every chance they get.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Labby,

Sometimes I am exploring, I have to admit there being a direct masonic hand sign hooked into this one and there was even some esoteric/mystery cult links I found did bother me. I know sometimes it is hard to figure out what is by "accident" and what is not. Sometimes I want the readers to explore something first and see if they come to the same conclusions. We have seen other things exposed about that time. Strange happenings and connections. I believe more and more the Jesus Movement was planned and purposeful infiltration of the Christian churches, so much of it is the root of what we are dealing with today, seeker sensitive, emergent, mystical,

Probably some did get truly saved, even from hearing some scripture but it has done untold damage as well. Yes if you research the stuff about Laurel Canyon it makes for a far darker picture. If one has studied some of the history of the introduction of LSD to America, etc, it can bring an even bigger picture. Remember Lonnie Frisbee connected his religious experiences to LSD.


One post I have not had time to do yet, was planning on it, was exploring the roots of the foursquare church since Chuck Smith has come out of that. I have mentioned some things already.

I am glad you were able to listen to the daughter's article. That one was hard to write. I knew it would upset many people but many are in those Protestant churches that have inherited the false things of Rome. I agree we all need to listen and test things even if they do make us uncomfortable.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Labby

Yes this is not a devotional blog. I have posted some salvation and biblical encouragement articles and there is a link on salvation provided, but you are right this would be considered a "niche" blog and it's audience most likely is NOT new believers but discerning believers though I hope I get a few caught in cults to think

Obviously given the limitations of time, and human effort, we cannot post on everything there is to post. There are other blogs who specialize in different things. People have studied different things or had different experiences leading to their "specialization".

I assume most reading this blog are doing their own daily Bible study and prayer and reading OTHER sources as well and hopefully testing everything they read according to God's Word.

Bible Believer said...

Yeah they are still using the hand sign, News4themasses so not surprised they were painting it at a youth retreat. I was a Catholic youth during the 70s but I remember vaguely even there seeing some upright fingers like this at "hippie" flavored 'guitar masses"
I was saved in 2002. So those were my years in the RCC and then later in the UU. I found the history interesting to explore of Calvary Chapel which I wrote about here, how did it all get started. Studying that history was interesting even for the place many of the churches are in today. I remember SOME about the evangelical world from this time, the JESUS meetings, Late Great Planet Earth, hearing about people getting saved. My Catholic school couldn't keep us in a complete vaccum
Yep it got the whole ball rolling for me too. Aimee Semple McPherson, I was going to post about that angle more, but talk about showmanship and the fruits of false preaching being shown.

Etter I do not know much about, does she have a connection to Aimee Semple McPherson? Trace back to Azusa street and there is even more weirdness.

"Considering the following in October 1907 at Simpsons Bible Tabernacle in New York City, Harold Moss saw the woman who was to become his wife, float five or six feet in the air. We have it from his direct testimony. It was during one of the hundreds of revivals that broke out all over the country following the eruption at Azusa Street. [snip] People prayed all night, spoke in unknown tongues, leaped in the air, shouted, and fell to the floor in trances which the Pentecostals called being 'being slain in the Lord'. Levitations were rare, but there is this remarkable diary entry about his future spouse written by Moss himself:

People were slain everywhere under the mighty power of God, including the ministers on the platform. The case of one young lady, Miss Grace Hammore {who since become my wife} was quite remarkable. She was caught away in the Spirit and rendered wholly oblivious to anything natural. A sweet song of holy song came forth in notes like that of a nightengale and filled the whole building. The power of God took hold of the physical and she was raised from the floor three distinct times. She afterwards stated she had seen a vision of a golden ladder and had started to climb it."

One finds such stories time and time again in Hindu folk mythology and Catholic folk legends as well.

One thing I am glad about is what the Lord showed me about the Pentecostal world.


I got laughed at and maligned too when I started exploring these things so understand that. Many got angry, instead of listening. I may be exploring even more facets, need more of time. Need to order a few books.

I do think there are a lot of "innocent" people who point up really meaning, pointing to "heaven" etc, but I think those who originally came up with the symbol most likely were thinking something else.

I never liked the arms open towards the sun thing either. I am more of an introvert and always felt that was a bit show-boaty for me. You do see the person with both arms thrown up and usually there is a sunrise or sunset on the cover. It is actual yoga position if I believe correctly. Now most doing it in the churches really are not using it to "worship the sun" or anything but yeah one can ask where did THIS come from.

Anonymous said...

Lisa Ruby, puleeze! When someone thanks me for doing something for the Lord I often point my finger upward to indicate that all glory and honor belong to Him, not me. I am not an occulist and there is no intention whatsoever of anything evil. Is it wrong for me to simply do this as a sign of humility before our Almighty God? I may express glory to the Lord in words and at other times as a gesture.

If lifting our hands in worship occultic? Some people may do it for show, but others do so with a humble heart and as a sign of surrender to the Lord. Body language can mean different things with different people. Only God knows the heart. The Bible talks about lifting holy hands in worship before the Lord, etc. Some choose to express themselves in this way and some do not.

I am not discounting the significance of the information and research presented here, but just that balance is needed. Can you not even accept that?

The "pointer finger" is called that because it is commnonly used to point and what is wrong with pointing upward when done innocently? The gesture itself is not evil, but rather the intent of the one making the gesture.

Bible Believer said...

I agree Lisa.

Once one deeply explores the churches and what is going on, the way of the heathen is all over the place. So much is done that has NO BIBLICAL foundation.

I do believe for my other commenter, it is OK to point at something, one will use a pointer finger even to get through life, such as telling someone where to turn the car. But I think there is some evidence for this finger pointing up gesture to have been a purposefully "chosen" one and symbol given its history and masonic connections. They love to sneak that sort of thing in. Remember even when I did the "arrow" article, I was in shock to find out the earlier meanings of the "arrow up". That does not mean that an archeitect using an arrow up on houseplans is sinning but looking at how these symbols are used. One thing to ask ourselves is why are they so over encompassing? Where they are seen EVERYWHERE. NATION WIDE? Think about that one. It's like every Christian graphic designer is sharing the same brain or something, nah I think it goes deeper then that.

Bible Believer said...

Now look above, I have written that MOST people using these gestures DO NOT use them with EVIL INTENT. They are not meaning to do a masonic gesture or anything like that.

HOWEVER, why were these gestures INTRODUCED?

Why are they so POPULAR?

Should we follow what the CROWD DOES?

There is part of me disturbed at people even copying the gestures of others.

The lifting the arm thing I can see being a more natural gesture of JOY etc. So I am less apt to be disturbed at that one though more exuberant and extrovert personalities probably enjoy that one more.

But the finger pointed up.....it's an odd one, we did not see churches full of people standing with one finger pointed to the air, 50-60 years ago. It's new. Where'd it come from?

I do not think it is harmful to ask.

Anonymous said...

A finger pointed up can also mean #1. It is a common gesture in sports and can be intended to show that God and Jesus are/should be #1.

It is not harmful to question, ask or examine, but at times that can be carried too far. Yes, we should recognize when symbols are used for evil intent, but in reality, there is nothing that can be done aboaut this. The Bible says not to be troubled when we see evil flourish but instead focus on ourselves and our examples and the way we live our lives and be accountable before the Lord.

I realize this is not a "devotional" blog, but it is easy to get sidetracked when one is on the trail of the wicked and get our eyes off the Lord Jesus and to focus on things that are pure.

I only meant to exhort to be cautious that we don't get too caught up in the evildoers. I didn't mean that we should not expose the deeds of darkness as the Bible instructs, but it can become a slippery slope with unintended consequences that can end up glorifying those dark deeds.

We need not fear, we just need to ask for wisdom and discernment and when given opportunity, alert and warn and above all, be a people of prayer because this is not a battle with flesh and blood, but with spiritual forces. Surely we can all agree on that.

Lisa Ruby said...

Anonymous wrote: "Lisa Ruby, puleeze! When someone thanks me for doing something for the Lord I often point my finger upward to indicate that all glory and honor belong to Him, not me."

Let's put the fact that the pointer finger can be used as an occult symbol aside for a moment.

God is almighty and full of glory. Pointing your finger upward as a supposed gesture to indicate that you are referring to him is not reverent. God is not a good ol' boy -- he is not a mere man that we can slap on the back or point at.

This scenario reminds me of the lost people who like to irreverently point upwards when they refer to God, who they call, "the man upstairs."

Lisa Ruby said...

Anonymous wrote: "If lifting our hands in worship occultic?"

That depends.

If the lifting up of hands in worship is done in a congregation full of false doctrines, and/or pulsating rock music and/or gyrating dancers, and/or false tongues,(etc.) then yes this particular worship is occultic because the "god" one is raising hands to is the "god of this world," not Jesus Christ.

Lisa Ruby said...

Anonymous wrote: "
I only meant to exhort to be cautious that we don't get too caught up in the evildoers. I didn't mean that we should not expose the deeds of darkness as the Bible instructs, but it can become a slippery slope with unintended consequences that can end up glorifying those dark deeds."

The only slippery slope to be contended with here is the temptation to hide one's light under a bushel and bury one's talent in the sand.

God commands his people to reprove evil and to be good stewards of whatever he has given them. Bible Believer is doing that -- much to the chagrin of some.

Bible Believer said...

I think we can be discerning about people's motives, most using it this are not thinking we are raising our hand to the devil but think it is a harmless gesture, but then the ones who made it popular could have done so for their own reasons, we live now in a culture where too many follow traditions, customs, actions and do not think about the meaning behind those or how they came about, kind of like Christmas trees.

If anything I think Christians should err more on the avoid any appearance of evil sign. We have too much crowd dynamics going on in this culture as it is, where people are instructed to mimick, the looks and actions of others.

I agree that warning about evil one does have to be very careful in keeping balance. That is why I wrote the Swimming in Evil article dealing with that spiritual issue. There are things I elect not to write about even but if anything with this blog, I hope more will question the Christian Culture world. It has formed it's own antichrist bubble. Better to get people to question what is being done out there and not follow the crowd. Like if this was Nazi Germany do not be one of the people with your arm raised up, palm flat. If anything group dynamics where they got the whole crowd cheering the same thing or making the same motions does bother me.

I agree about not fearing evil but we do not want to follow the mode of many who will tell us to IGNORE what we are seeing right in front of our eyes, like even with the WHOSEVERS, plenty there too who would try and tell us there is nothing evil there.

With the spiritual forces remember they have their techniques of wiggling in, they want people making mindless gestures that honor evil spirits, even if it is done unknowingly in most people's cases.

Bible Believer said...

One thing with crowd dynamics too.

They are getting better at 'controlling" people via crowd pressures and adult peer pressures. Follow the crowd.I want those reading this blog, think about this how people now dress, act and speak even more the same ever then before. How everything now is about conforming to the crowd.

Bible Believer said...

Lisa Ruby is right there, is a blasphemous angle to pointing to heaven. kind of like they are pointing at God. Also even if they think "I am pointing to heaven" where is the humble spirit there, it is a triumphalist sort of pose! So wonder they borrowed it from sports. Think about the theme of domination they have going through Christiandom now, where it is all about winning, the narcissistic hand raised in the air. #1 #1, you know kind of like the unthinking politics where people shouted USA #1 as our politicians ordered more Middle Eastern wars to bankrupt our country and bring more destruction.

James 4:10 says we are to humble ourselves before the Lord.

Where is the being humble here?

Bible Believer said...

I wrote here about that line in exposing evildoers. Trust me it is a tough one. I am examining myself. Even some of the things I have written about here it is not easy to know, I'll be frank knowing they are even being that outwardly satanic with the rock bands, deeply disturbed me. I had to pray about that one a long time and still am.


Anonymous said...

Lisa, I believe I have a reverent and awe-filled attitude toward my Lord. The only time I would point upward is when someone extends to me a compliment and I refuse to take the glory from the One Who truly deserves it. I reply with a gesture that indicates that I accept no glory or credit for anything, but that the person should instead give honor to the Lord Who deserves it. I deserve nothing and shudder that I would rob Him of any glory. I can do nothing without His enablement. I don't go around pointing my finger upward flippantly.

As for raising my hands, there are times when I do so and times when I do not. I want to be sure that I am doing so in genuine worship of Him and not because of any influence of music or what others are doing.

God is holy and we must not forget that even though we can come boldly to His throne and He loves us.

Bible Believer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

Last Anon, do you want to be a crowd follower or question why you make certain gestures or where they came from. Course I worry those who point up when referencing God, seem to always add in the blasphemous "Man upstairs". I mean why not analyze where that particular one came from. Also given that we know how "space" works, when people point "up", this seems a flippant view of heaven, as if it is just the proverbial "clouds" in heaven with angels and harps right up in the air, rather then what the Bible tells us about it. Please do not refer to God as the ONE. You probably picked up that lingo from some of your preachers. Knowing that God is Holy, a person needs to examine "cultural gestures". Look how many think they are honoring their favorite rock band waving around the devil horns. People follow crowds way too easily.

Anonymous said...

BB, I am not a crowd follower and so rarely ever use this gesture. The gesture in itself is not evil. The world is filled with evil and wickedness of every kind and I don't think that my using the gesture will cause anyone to stumble. I don't make a practice of it. It simply goes along with a verbal statement that all glory goes to the Lord and not me.

The Bible speaks of heaven as being above, the Lord Jesus was raised up into heaven, and the Lord will return in the clouds for His Church. Of course we know that God is omnipresent, but really is this worth quibbling over?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

When I see the importance of symbols to occultists it becomes very clear that being aware of their use is critical.

Here's Manly P. Hall, for example:

"Symbols are oracular forms–mysterious patterns creating vortices in the substances of the invisible world. They are centers of a mighty force, figures pregnant with an awful power, which, when properly fashioned, loose fiery whirlwinds upon the earth."

– Manly P. Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 356. (Manly P. Hall was one of the most influential occultists of the last century. He was recognized as a leading figure in the quest for mystical knowledge, and is considered one of the greatest Freemasons of the last one hundred years.)

At the Lucis Trust (Formerly Lucifer Trust) website is their logo and Foster Baily describing the logo and the meaning behind the symbolism:

Foster Baily says about his symbol: "This symbol indicates some of the significant forces and deeper factors now increasingly operating as the new age advances. "

Symbols are the language of the occult. The occult/new age/false teachers use these symbols to communicate. As the times have become more evil, they are using symbols more openly. I think we can over analyze at times, but if a website has a host of other occult symbolism, like The Whosoevers, then I will take their many instances of the pointing finger to be occult in nature.

I have read that occultists believe that the more people who do no know what symbols mean, the greater power they derive. Whether that's true, not sure. But still, I believe we must be aware of these things.

Thank you BB for bringing these things out in the open and discussing them.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks last Anon,

Yes they use them wherever they can and I believe love to use them knowing most people will not "see" what is going on even to mock. They probably see that as a way to derive spiritual power as well. Looks like Manly Hall summed up what they desire through their frequent use of occult symbols.

Thanks for the Lucis Trust link, I have not yet seen that symbol before, they have the 5 pointed star, 4 equal sided cross and pyramid...

Notice how they refer to "christ" over and over, the "cosmic/antichrist".

I think we can over-analyze, but it's probably better to do that then make excuses and yes the Whosoevers were pointing one finger up all over the place linked in with their other overt occult symbols.

Remember all these groups use these symbols to mark themselves to EACH OTHER as well. I've seen that done even on message boards in more subtle lower level forms.

Thanks for yuor post.

Anonymous said...

Also if you go on the lucis trust website, site index, there're an entry called The Coming One, all about their Christ who they are expecting. We are being prepped to accept this new age cosmic Christ. Warren Smith has a book False Christ Coming Anyone Care? It's pretty good , but then I see who he is associated with and now I'm a little leary. But it still seemed like good info. What do you think BB?

Bible Believer said...

It may be time to discuss the "christ" they await, and how this impedes even on the phony "christian" leaders exposed on this board, one of my earliest articles dealt with the lucis trust. I talk about how they had us recite the Lucis Trust invocation in the UU church. Yes this is a group I am interested in exposing on here.


this ties into those who never say JESUS CHRIST as opposed to only using "christ". Now a Christian can refer to "Christ" but a lot of the phonies avoid JESUS CHRIST.

george said...

its out of ignorance that the conclusion brought that teh symbol symbolise a pagan cult. Similarity is nothing until the Message seems same. Its simple, they mean "Jesus is the Only way">.

Bornagain Soldier said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pietas said...

Go google "Occupy Raw" You're pretty smart, what do you think they are doing here? ;)