Wednesday, July 4, 2012

Why Do They Use the Chi-Rho?



I talk about the "code" here all the time. I don't even mention everytime I see something, there simply would be no time, but thought I would address one symbol I have been thinking about and may add others.  When I see a symbol that is questionable, there are the cases people do not know the true origin of the symbols, if that applies to the case here, hopefully they will rethink their graphics. If I ever slip up and post a logo or something that is false [well I do not have one] I would want someone to tell me. When you see the same stuff repeated over and over, and see a "trend" that is a problem.

Ok let me start with these guys. This is a "discernment radio station", but it has bugged me to no end that they have a CATHOLIC symbol for their radio station.  Sure some daughter Protestants use it too, but it seems a discernment radio station would figure out this symbol is not a good one. Don't they know the history of the Chi-Rho symbol and Constantine? Constantine was no Christian! The whole P- X looking thing is called the CHI RHO. I was surrounded by them as a Catholic kid. Every Catholic church has that sprinkled all over the literature and in the churches.



Has anyone ever brought this up to the Pirate Christian Radio guys? The worse problem is the Chi-Rho right smack in the middle, otherwise referred to as a  Labarum.  Why on earth is there a skeleton, look carefully on the very left side, kneeling and praying, ominously over what is a map of the USA?  Then we see two smaller Chi Rhos, on each end of the written phrases. Why do we see that ever present compass?  For those bloggers who can use the fancy graphics to point things out, can one of you write me and tell me how you do it? What program do you all use?  Well I have circled the areas of concern here:


The most obvious is the CHI RHO symbol, Notice the Pope uses it, here with a stylized one in a YONI--symbol of the goddess, the P with the Xs over it makes an appearance.


This symbol is sprinkled all over Catholic churches including this one in San Antonio:


Pirate Radio makes their claim here, that they are against Emergents and other false teachings


From the above:


"Pirate Christian Radio is an online radio station that is free from the scurvy plagues of pop-psychology, goofy fads, self-help, pietism, purpose-drivenism, the prosperity heresy, contemplative mysticism, seeker-sensitivism, liberalism, relevantism, Emergent nonsense, and the sissy girly Oprah-fied religiosity that is being passed off as "Biblical Christianity"

If you are against the Emergent movement, then a person needs to rethink the symbols they use.


What is tragic out there, is I deal with people who are knowledgeable about the errors of the above, but then cling to Catholic tradition and sacramentalism because often they are associated with a  daughter church often times in more "conservative" branch of the harlot. I found myself telling one other lady recently in a broken away Lutheran church that thankfully in this case rejected ecumenism, that with the celebration of the Eucharist and "sacraments", they still remained tied to Rome.

Seeing any "Christian" cling to this symbol is not a good thing. I hope if they simply did not know they rethink it's use. I have to admit the first time I saw that logo, I thought "stay away". That symbol is so very Catholic.......

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you for bringing this up! ! ! This has been bothering me, too, why a discernment ministry chooses to have occult symbolism displayed so boldly. In my limited research on occult symbols it seems the chi-rho is also the staff of Osiris who was the Egyptian 'savior.' The skeleton creeped me out, too. The Catholic church uses so many pagan god symbols! I've been looking into occult symbolism over the last year after a family member who is Wicca got runes tattooed on her arms, and it's been quite an eye opener.

I don't care how Christian someone claims to be - if they are displaying occult symbolism I have a very distrusting feeling about them now, after discovering how important and powerful symbols are believed to be in the occult world.

Bible Believer said...

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/11/10/a-listener’s-guide-to-the-pulpit/#more-6777

Some of sample writing from those working at Pirate Radio...

This guy Todd Wilken seems to know a lot, but if he is worried about good preaching, why not the use of Catholic symbols?

He just has a show on Pirate radio as far as I know.

Yeah I have been creeped out by their banner and logos for a long time.

I have seen these Pirate Radio folks promoted everywhere such at

Apprising Ministries

http://apprising.org/2012/01/25/chris-rosebrough-discusses-details-of-threat-of-arrest-at-elephant-room-2/

Hmm even their van is covered in the CHi Rho...

http://rzhblog.wordpress.com/

LOL wonder how come I don't have money to plaster my car with Galatians 4 ads [no I don't want to]

They pop up everywhere on "discernment" websites.

Yeap the Chi-Rho is related to Osiris, it is not a Christian symbol. Even the "x" part of it is an occult symbol. The skeleton is creepy too and since it is kneeling, definitely seems to me another occult symbol. What kind of Christians make their banner look like Halloween with skeletons included? I know I worry about occult symbolism too. They sneak the stuff in everywhere too.

Bible Believer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

Another thought I had...

They call themselves "PIRATES"

You know murdering, thieving, in some cultural circles connected to homosexuality, criminals of the sea.

I mean why would you want to be known as THAT?

I wonder why the bad murdering men of the sea are so glorified?

Anonymous M said...

VERY INTERESTING article BB. Here's some additional info: I found this definition of pirate on line...

pi·rate (prt)
n.
1.
a. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
b. A ship used for this purpose.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
3. One who makes use of or reproduces the work of another without authorization.
4. One that operates an unlicensed, illegal television or radio station.
v. pi·rat·ed, pi·rat·ing, pi·rates
v.tr.
1. To attack and rob (a ship at sea).
2. To take (something) by piracy.
3. To make use of or reproduce (another's work) without authorization.
v.intr.
To act as a pirate; practice piracy.

Doesn't that symbol you reference remind you of the "Jolly Roger" logo of pirates? It's a "skull and crossbones."

BTW I did some looking around his site; bookstores and resources are always SUCH FUN!! It's where you find out what's REALLY going on (in addition to the logos of course)...

There are offerings from apostates, emergents, occultists and Jesuits...to name a few:

Lee Strobel - emergent/apostate
C.S. Lewis - apostate/occult
Louis A. Brighton - who earned his doctorate in a Jesuit institution

I didn't look into all the offerings - the above are enough.

In light of the above, I say that "Pirate Christianity" is a MOST adequate description of that "ministry;" as Chris goes about robbing and pillaging the faith in an underhanded, backdoor manner.

Anonymous M said...

BTW did you also notice the compass on the right hand corner of the banner?

Anonymous said...

Pirates...

They were catholics that plundered, raped, stole, and burned down things in Christian lands.

That's why pirates are glorified, all over movies, cartoons, and pop culture.

Hollywood is controlled by Rome.

So they glorify that which they did for centuries to try and wipe out Christian lands.

Bible Believer said...

Anon M, yeah I noticed the compass...

"Why do we see that ever present compass? "

I am learning to see a compass as NOT a good marker. What is the occult aspect of the compass symbol? Covering the whole world? 8 or 16 points. I should investigate that.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for looking up the definition of pirates..

yeah robbers, plunderers, thieves

not a positive force

Hey even when they have kids go to Patches the Pirate class, that made me wonder. Does Patch the Pirate repent?Maybe he does.

Pirates have always historically been the murderers of the seas, there are pirates even in Somali and places like that today, they take over ships, steal what they can lay their hands on, attack the women more often then not, and do endless evils.

Maybe they adopted the name, in the "illegal" radio station sense. Like "look we are the rebels" going against the status quo but even then that doesn't excuse the symbols and the rest and it's not the best choice for a Christian radio station.

Yeah them adding on the skeleton, was a bad sign

Chi Rho, looks a lot like the design of Skull and Bones--same X...you see. They all do relate.


Interesting about the books for sale...yeah that will tell you alot. Unless they have a giant disclaimer, these are for sale to EXPOSE and for INFORMATION...they are selling them because they agree.

well what other reason do they then to advance false teachings. C.S Lewis definitely is the most loved figure among daughter churches. When someone tells me they love C.S. Lewis this tells me their discernment is very low.

Hmm Jesuits too. Guess I am not surprised.

Yeah that is enough. They sell T-shirts and mugs with the Chi-Ro on them.

not good at all.

Anonymous said...

The CS Lewis fan is always apostate.

A person can't rectify CS Lewis with Biblical doctrine. The two contradict.

So only two possibilities:
1) They don't know Biblical doctrines
2) They don't believe Biblical doctrines

Bible Believer said...

Yes I totally agree.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/12/stay-away-from-narnia.html

christian cerna said...

I remember that in high school, I decided to check out a copy of the book "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe." Back then, I was completely out of the loop when it came to Christian sub-culture.(e.g. popular music and book authors) I grew up in Spanish speaking churches, and the available material in Spanish was very limited. We grew up on the Bible and comics from Chick publications that warned against the Catholic church and satanism, etc.

So any way, I checked out C.S. Lewis's Narnia book, not knowing anything about C.S. Lewis. And I remember that when I got to the part where Aslan is being sacrificed by the Witch to pay for the sins of the kids, that I was completely shocked and disgusted. I thought it was blasphemous for him to write these things, and thought that he was mocking Jesus Christ.

That is why, years later, I was shocked to find out C.S. Lewis was a Christian. And because he was being heavily promoted in the Christian mainstream, I let my guard down and began to read his books. He is a great writer. But his stories are filled with dangerous ideas also.

I guess it's true what they say. Always go with your first instinct.

christian cerna said...

The same thing happened with Tolkien's "The Hobbit". I probably would never have picked up a copy of the book myself. But once again, it was a recommended reading by one Chuck Colson, so I picked it up. I really enjoyed reading the book. I considered it to be a literary masterpiece. But I also was fully aware that the book shows the characters using magic, and showing it to be something not really evil.

But I cannot in good conscience read it or recommend it to anyone now. I can now see that it was Tolkien who pretty much created the modern Fantasy genre in books. And if you go to any bookstore, and look in the fantasy section, you can see that the books always have satanic images on them. It was Tolkien who opened the door to such things as Dungeons and Dragons, and Harry Potter.

It is interesting that Tolkien was a friend of C.S. Lewis, who was instrumental in introducing the idea that one can mix pagan ideas with Christian ideas.

And yet, you have so-called theologians who continue to praise Lewis, as being the greatest Christian thinker of our time.

Just to show you how screwed up Christians are, there are people that write books about finding the Gospel message in the Lord of The Rings, and even in Harry Potter books. Frightening isn't it?

American Christianity is so messed up right now. And it is in large part due to the Consumerism that pervades the Church, and the desire of book publishers to make money any way they can- even if it means selling books that are filled with lies.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Christian Cerna.

When I was a Catholic kid in Catholic school, they really promoted CS Lewis big time. They had us read all of his books including the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe. Those books are so full of occult ideas and even things related to "high magic" Even when I was a non-believer Theosophical UU,, I realized how much paganism Tolkien had brought in. Even the going through the wardrobe resembles going through layers of consciousness. Yes the part about Aslan, and by the way he sets it up where Aslan is "sacrificed" tied up and put on a large rock, is more satanic stuff there. It is sickening and it is blasphemy. You are right he is a good writer but he brings in dangerous pagan ideas, along with his Anglican-basically Catholic false "Christianity." The two of course go hand in hand but he mixes it into a special poisonous stew.

You are right The Hobbit is full of witchcraft. I found myself flipping through one a few years ago, found it at a used book store or maybe friend gave it to me, and I couldn't read it,even for exposure purposes, all this horrible witchcraft and more, and they were always telling us to read this book in Catholic school. Tolkien's books are big in Catholic cultural circles.

Yes Tolkien opened the door to all the fantasy stuff. As a kid I hated Fantasy books, may have been a warning early discernment, wanted to read about real things. But they bury even more subtle stuff even in other literature, the other day, I realized how occult "The Little Princess" was with Shirley Temple. Some may be shocked at that one. But they have the girl doing constant visualization exercises. That bothered me.
Yes they were both friends, and it seems every phoney baloney pseudo-intellectual theologian names themselves as a CS Lewis or Tolkien fan.

Yeah I have seen the people writing books about the gospel message in Harry Potter, Have seen it even in the Hunger Games, can you believe that?

Google: "The Hunger Games and the Gospel: Bread, Circuses, and the Kingdom of God"

She even has the occult cover there, with a fire covered "Phoenix" rising out of the ground.

You are right American Christianity is so far gone. I don't trust the majority of mainstreamed published "Christian" books anymore.

christian cerna said...

Yes, Christianity in this country has been so compromised, that it is best to stay away from organized institutions, and from so-called Christian media.

The gospel that you find in America's churches is a weak gospel, a false gospel- a gospel message that is mixed with Jewry and Roman influences, New Age ideas, and American pride.

The real gospel is so radical, powerful, and simple. But you probably won't hear it preached much these days. Most preachers are led astray by the cares of this world, and the love of power and money. You will have to rely on your bible alone to ascertain the will of God.

The frightening thing is that people cannot see how far gone this country is. It has become like Sodom and Gomorrah. Americans are so proud of themselves. We think this is the greatest nation in the world. But it is also the one being used the most by Satan to bring violence and greed and immorality to the world.

Anonymous said...

Just noticed this article because of a link that popped up on the left side of your blog.

I contacted PCR about the Chi Rho they use about a year or two ago or so. Chris or "the staff" accused me of being on a witch hunt and sent me a lot of Monty Python quotes, and casting pearls before swine verses, and mocked me with ugly "taunts" as they played the Monty Python game instead of taking anything I said serious.


Anonymous said...

Ummmm.... guys? In all this no one seems to be looking at what the symbol actually MEANS.

Chi-Rho: CR. The first letters of "Christ".

What, exactly, is wrong with writing a monogram for "Christ"? Sure, Catholics use it- they believe in Christ. Other Christians use it- they also believe in Christ. If you believe the Catholic church to be evil then shy away from they evil things that are done- not a perfectly good symbol.

Sueb said...

Do you ever do research before you spout this stuff? If so is it from an objective source? Just Google it for goodness sakes. Its a Christogram. A recognizeable symbol meaning Christ and then the X is a form of the cross there to complete the monogram. "Christ Crucufied". He is my Lortd and I love him. Please don't bear false witness! Thanks

brig said...

Is this a joke?

A Greek abbreviation for Christ is supposed to have a relationship with an Egyptian deity? The "XP" abbreviation in any form is really no different than using your own initials (with or without embellishment). Popular initials/abbreviations ones take on their own character, like in corporate logos. Are the Golden Arches evil pagan symbols, or do they represent the M in McDonald's? But pretty much any Christian vocabulary in Greek or Latin has been historically abbreviated with the first letters of the word. You've probably seen "IHS" emblazoned somewhere over a cross perhaps? That is the abbreviation for Jesus. Or maybe "INRI"? That's short for Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews. Using abbreviations for something common and important is as pagan a practice as using pen and paper.

Has anyone ever heard the term "pirate radio"? The term evolved (from being illegal programming broadcasting from just off-shore) and now simply means just independent/unlicensed/free programming. It was what they called the early internet-only radio stations (which I guess applies to any live stream, and sometimes podcasts now ...)

R. Wales said...

After reading your article, I have a grave concern about your approach to this situation. You posed the question "Has anyone ever brought this up to the Pirate Christian Radio guys?" This implies that you have not contacted them about this indiscretion and confronted them directly, by yourself or with another believer.
Have you brought this apparent contradiction in philosophy to their attention so they can be aware of their association with "occultic"symbols?
If you have posted this in public, without giving them the opportunity to change first, you are in clear violation of Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18, and Matthew 7 for that matter. So while they may be violating a principle of God by not avoiding symbols that are traditionally associated with the occult, this entire blog post is in direct contradiction to the instruction given my Jesus regarding correcting a brother.

(FYI, I was unable to find a medium to contact you directly in private, as it appears you have tried to remain anonymous)

Bible Believer said...

To R. Wales, why didn't you email me? It's right on my profile. Anyhow I do not approach every ministry, does this mean you want me to write Rick Warren and the Pope a letter too? Even here I approach this issue in writing that I hope they RETHINK the graphic. If they were by some chance ignorant of it's meaning hopefully this article will help them see it is NOT a good symbol. If they aren't, well....

I have noted on their website they sell a Lutheran Study Bible and a CS Lewis book. That is deeply concerning.

And on their banner what do you think of the kneeling skeleton and the compass? No there are several symbols and areas of concern. I could even accept the PIRATE name since that has been a term used for alternative radio before, though I may not agree with it, that could be an innocently chosen moniker. But why on earth would you call yourself a discernment ministry and then put up one of the most Catholic symbols there is that was even used by the false Constantine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho#Christian_accounts_of_Constantine.27s_adoption_of_the_Chi-Rho

This article has been up since July and I have not been written or otherwise contacted regarding it except for the comments you see posted here.

To Anon, the Chi-Rho was used by Constantine which definitely brings up questions regarding it's validity
"IHS" is also a Jesuit used symbol and false as well. These slogans and initials based on false traditions.

Written by a Catholic:

http://en.ignatianwiki.org/IHS_JESUIT_SYMBOL_AND_SEAL

So why are they using these symbols?

Bible Believer said...

Sueb if you love Jesus why do you use that avatar? It disturbs me how in some Catholic art and on crucifixes how "jesus" is always protrayed "dead". And there "he" is being held up by Mary, which brings up other theological problems. The use of halos is another issue. Hebrews 6:6. Christograms are false. Whose telling everyone to abbreivate the name of Jesus Christ?

brigand said...

Other later uses notwithstanding, the "nomen sacrum" have been around since the first century, and are in the absolute oldest texts of the Bible in existence. They may have already been around during the lifetime of the disciples, but certainly the very next generation, thus predating Roman Catholics, Constantine, Jesuits, etc.

How in the world can an abbreviation be "false"? Are you also against crosses and fish? I can understand a reaction against images and statues, but anagrams, monograms, and Christograms? Jesuits use it, so guilt by association? You've just tossed under the bus every Christian from 100AD to the invention of the printing press.

Because I was feeling particularly bored, I decided to look up the texts that the KJV (another abbreviation?) was based on (the Textus Receptus (TR) ones, not the Westcott-Hort (WH) ones). Yep, nomen sacrum (NS), right there on the front page of Matthew's gospel in CB A. N. IV. 2 (aka minuscule 2 that comprises the TR).

Just because RCCs use the conventions established by the ancient church doesn't invalidate the utility of those conventions. If use of these conventions are based on "false traditions" and the earliest traditions are nigh-apostolic, and you lack history of a different, earlier tradition, you've pretty much either just shot yourself in the foot, or you are privy to some artifact of history that nobody else knows.

* The praying skeleton is the most famous of William Cheselden's drawings (he wrote one of the first useful books on the human anatomy). I don't know what it means to Chris and PCR. Maybe a thin reference to Ezekiel or Ephesians 2. Or maybe just for giggles. "definitely seems to me another occult symbol" -- your speculation is patently false.

* Of course they sell Lutheran merchandise -- they're Lutheran, and carry Lutheran programming. I'm not sure why this is shocking. Sure, their views on the Lord's Supper are odd, but we've also known this for a few hundred years, and it has nothing to do with which Greek letters are Kosher in Baptist minds.

* I really have no idea why a compass is disturbing to anyone. Maybe PCR likes to know where they are and where they are going.

But anyway, your first statement in the original post was incredulous that anyone would be ignorant of the origins of various symbols. Well. I'm sure PCR is quite apprised of the fact that their XP symbol means "Christ". You talk about code. There's really only one translation for that code. And with all your "occult" labeling, I'm just not sure that your evaluation reflects an adequate understanding of that fact. Did someone hand you a poorly researched book on Freemasonry or something?

Gordon said...

Hi brigand, it's me Gordon (not Gordon Clarke). I'm one of those who you guys at AOMIN (James White cult) “cast out” of your IRC Chat rooms. I've written in that regard directly to you and joined (listened) you in your IRC chat for several months. You won't remember a thing about me. I am mentioning this to alert others here that you are a “professional debater” and follower of James White. This of course is also evident in your direct and immediate attack at the KJB. Not guilt by association but guilt by deliberation.

Have you asked Chris at PCR “how many” people have brought the topic of his Chi-Rho association to the Roman Catholic Church to his attention? No? Why then do you condemn BB of this blog? That is hypocrisy on your part. I know how you people deal with those who ask questions, and you people thrive on and practice “hanging them with their own rope” (or "shot yourself in the foot" as you say here).I did contact Chris and know exactly how he treated me. With the same type of disdain you've demonstrated here.

*Your Alpha and Omega sit right next to the Chi-Rho under the Pope in this picture, (as posted on this blog)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BentoXVI-44-11052007.jpg
Flying the flag of your country and devotion? The RCC used these long before there was an AOMIN or PCR...

I know you (brigand) are friends with and a leader in that whole bunch, and your debating skills are honed, but winning debates alone is just winning debates.

YET it is souls who Christ willingly came and died for, even if or maybe precisely because they can't debate ;) (childlike Faith in Christ alone)

I think it's because the Lord uses people like BB, that some of us are able to be slapped into looking the other way long enough to perhaps notice “something is wrong here”, even if they/we don't know for sure why or what the problem is.

Besides...

1 Cor 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


I can attest that Chris Rosebrough quoted more Monty Python than the Bible when I contacted him, and he and drOakley (James White's IRC chat nickname) used the same types of tactics and antics and sound effects and so on in their “radio stingers”. I had a bunch of the sound effects downloaded that drOakley himself offered one day in chat, I deleted them because they were loaded with blasphemous quotes and garbage. It's evident by their “cuteness” that they are winning souls to themselves and we are warned...

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Using debates that leave no answers, or worse ... they leave doubt in the Word of God, God Himself. (I have yet to recover fully from Whites debates w/ A.Kunde, which opened my eyes to Whites true craftiness in laying deceit, providing a platform for creating doubt... then I could also see his lying deceitful attacks at the KJB...)

As a comparison in opposition to teaching others to doubt the Word of God...
Here is an interesting talk given by Will Kinney on “Charity” in the KJB (a link to the text version of the talk is given under the following video.) that shows we can trust the KJ Bible, the Word of God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oWVvhfqoeg&list=PL16B2149EE5E54979&index=37

Let the playlist play if you want to learn more.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Bible Believer said...

Why use a symbol used by Constantine? I don't care if it's OLD either. Lots of lying legends, traditions and other things that are OLD. Some get over-awed by anything that claims to be antique and stop asking if they are true. I am not interested in Alexandrian cult symbols. Seems funny that you would defend a use of a "Latin" term to me. But then one thing I always said about Calvinists, [if the stuff about your connection to James White is true] they held on to all those false councils, and history of Rome, and thusly have remained in error.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/10/why-i-am-not-calvinist.html

The apostles warned of DECEIVERS in their day, so do you think I am going to go along with early church fathers that preached the exact opposite of what scripture had to teach like I explain here?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/re-daughter-protestant-article.html

Forget that. I had my fill of the false philosophers and more while in the Catholic church

Jesus Christ is a short enough name to say and write that people do not have to be running to abbreviate it. Even the fish symbol is of questionable origin based in pre-Christian pagan symbols, the yoni and the like. Why would you want to copy the Jesuits? Oh because Jesuits are okay to Calvinists now? They just have a "few errors" but are good guys nonethless?

When you refer to every Christian being thrown under the bus, I do not consider the Catholic, Orthodox etc, churches as "Christian", they are the harlot. You may think those who worship idols of bread, and who are signed on with the interfaith movement are fellow Christians. I do not. I think many are well-meaning and desiring of God but sadly in bondage to false men and a false system, SAME AS I WAS at one time.

So an old bible had some of these symbols? So what? They have KJV Bibles even marked masonically that does not take away from the truth of God's Word.
Study the conventions and their origins, that is where my problem lies with them not just their use by Rome. I mean why do you take the fish for granted? Turn that one on it's side and the Jesuits love that yoni mark. another name known as Vesica Piscis.

http://www.whale.to/c/vesica_piscis.html

The apostles warned of grievous wolves even at THEIR TIME so why are you impressed with "antique church" things or what some claim come from antiquity?

I don't care that you tell me that I "lack history". My faith is not based on false history which the "winners" of this earth usually write but on God's Word. I reject Rome's false version of the facts, legends and more.

Why put a skeleton on a Christian website? Even if the man who drew it had reasons to draw it, I mean they could have picked a picture of a flower or I supposed a person with flesh praying away. What's so giggly about a skeleton?
I mean if I am designing a Christian website, my first thought isn't to go run and go get Halloween looking pictures or claim high horse academic creds getting some anatomy drawings--hmm they could have put up a picture of a liver or a foot or a heart....

So they are Lutherans? Funny that given their radio station is advertised all over the non-sacramental evangelical world. How many people even know this?

Are they Missouri or WELS or some other offshoot? I ask for a reason.

That said whatever the answer, if they can't discern that sacraments are false, what about the rest of the picture?

Does the Museum of Idolatry know they are Lutherans?

So are you a Lutheran mentioning "Baptist Minds"?

What does that even mean? Because I reject false symbols that some try to give creedance through false history for?

The compass is a marker, it's all over false religion websites.

What do you mean poorly researched book on Freemasonry? You mean a book that may expose their symbols instead of making excuses for them?

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Gordon,

I am familiar with James White, which may surprise a few here. I used to read and listen to all the debates. It took me time to even arrive at my conclusions about Calvinism but I realized something was up given that the Calvinists all stuck to the early history of Rome even if they rejected other errors. It does not escape my attention that the majority of Calvinists are ecumenical with Rome today. Yes I know James White is an exception to this.

http://vintage.aomin.org/Aboutdebates.html

I don't get the motive to debate endless lines of false religionists. I may try and talk to them when they show up here acouple times but after that, I am done, it is useless past presenting the gospel to them, one needs to move on. Even with others who disagree with this blog, I'll let them them have their say and then move on at a certain point

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject ; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted , and sinneth , being condemned of himself. 12 When I shall send Artemas unto thee, or Tychicus, be diligent to come unto me to Nicopolis: for I have determined there to winter . 13 Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them. 14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. 15 All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen.

Sorry you got banned. I supposed given my views of Calvinism I'd be banned too. I would ask James White why he holds to the teachings of the Catholic Augustine?

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2520

I've dealt with the professional debaters before. The Calvinists, some of them are quite honed and intellectual types. But then intellectualism as I learned in the UUism with the cadre of intellectual types in academia and more can be a place that leads one totally to the foolishness of the this world

I wonder if anyone else has brought up the Chi-Rho to them?

I suppose if they really are Lutherans, then they would still be tied to many of these false symbols, traditions and sacraments.

I know most Lutheran churches use it.

Funny there are some liturgical types who do get it right about how false some of the mega-churches are, etc, but they can't see the problems right in their own camp?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/daughters-protestant-churches-1-altars.html


I find it interesting that the question seems to make this poster brigand so angry, obviously she has figured out I am non-liturgical bible believing Christian from the rest of this blog, but don't make mistake of assuming I am a "baptist" because most of those churches are fallen away too. Why would she be so upset that I would question the use of a oft-used papal symbol by a supposed Christian discernment ministry?

You know one often thinks they would have as the reaction, you know, let me research this symbol I have chosen to use....

I am not here to "win" debates either even with brigand. I would like to see more people woken up and more people to come out of the harlot. Perhaps even one day, God can show her the truth.

As a new Christian I debated online for a long time with Calvinists and Catholics on message boards til I realized what a waste of time it all was.

Even here, I have to make sure not to argue, tell them the truth acouple of times and then leave it at that.

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

All I know is I am glad to warn those of the symbols of the false church system. I don't regret that at all. There is definitely a problem with using the same symbols as the Pope.

Bible Believer said...

Brigand, you are good at the debate, I'll give you that.

You'd probably make a good lawyer or perhaps making control op arguments online?

Symbols have meaning whether you like that or not, and one can argue til the cows come home that "context" matters, sure it does, but when push comes to shove, considering the bible believer DOES NOT worship the same "jesus" the Pope does, why would we accept one of the chosen symbols? or the one Constantine went with from the start?

You can't make someone back track and forget what they know.

As for the meteorites, writing an entire comment as if there are 500 people injured in the same vicinity every day by a meteor to excuse the pointed out discrepancy in the news, just doesn't cut it.

However I don't need to fill my blog comment section with Casuistry arguments.

So the Pirate Radio bunch are Missouri Lutherans? {I kept your comment in my spam files}


Reason I asked WELS at least appears to make importance of separating from the ecumenical movement, while the Missouri Synod is full blown involved.

and if you are correct about this, how on earth does one have a "discernment ministry" belonging to an ecumenical church that is a member of the WCC?

http://www.oikoumene.org/en/handbook/church-families/lutheran-churches/ilc.html

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-official-statement_en.html

Such inconsistencies really come to the forefront.

Bible Believer said...

More thinking aloud here on this one.

How can Lutherans speak out against the Emergent movement when Lutheranism has retained sacramentalism and many facets of Rome?

Found this..

http://stand-firm.blogspot.com/2009/03/guest-blogger-chris-rosebrough.html

*******************************************************************************
"We not only got Issues, Etc. back, we got an entire radio station. Pirate Christian Radio is doing fantastically well. PCR is listened to in over 60 countries. It is in the top 10 in the talk category on the Live 365 Internet Radio Network and it is sailing circles around KFUO. In fact, Pirate Christian Radio is the most exciting thing to happen in Lutheran Radio in almost a century and none of this would have been possible if the LCMS had not cancelled Issues, Etc.

During the one year CAnniversary celebration I plan to send a Thank You card to LCMS President, Jerry Kieschnick. He might decline the card and claim that I’m thanking the wrong person. But, I know that he’s the one to thank for the actions that took place on March 18th, 2008. It would be wrong of me to not express my deepest gratitude for helping to give us the gift of a better Issues, Etc. and Pirate Christian Radio.

Chris Rosebrough's ride, his Toyota "wrapped" in PCR colors."

Bible Believer said...

Guess I got my question answered if that blog is reporting accurately.

They use the Chi-Rho because they are Lutherans.

a daughter church...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/daughters-protestant-churches-1-altars.html

I have removed the Museum of Idolatry link, they were truthful about the falsehoods in megachurches etc. I did wonder sometime ago why liturgicals were ignored on there but figured there focus was more narrow due to time and space rather then any overt neglect.

Gordon said...

Abbreviations mean something, they have definitions and are used to communicate.
Because I was feeling particulary bored, I decided to look up what brigand meant…

brig•and [brig-uhnd]
noun
a bandit, especially one of a band of robbers in mountain or forest regions.

Origin:
1350–1400; variant of Middle English briga ( u ) nt < Middle French brigand < Old Italian brigante companion, member of an armed company, equivalent to brig ( are ) to treat, deal (with), make war (derivative of briga trouble, strife; of uncertain origin) + -ante –ant

The definition for brigand was there long before you chose to use it as your nickname.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

Philem 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

How about your monograms and flags, do they really mean something?
The Bible says they do.

Ps 74:4 Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.

So my question is; do you want to associate with the enemies of God with your ensigns and avatars and monograms and nicknames and abbreviations?

The context of these following verses is about “food” sacrificed to idols, and the effect on the conscience. The conscience being the topic, and the thing done being the vehicle which brings us to the point. Consider this…

1 Cor 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

When you willingly display symbols and use names that are used by the enemies of Christ, you wound the brethren in the conscience and “ye sin against Christ”. Or said again boldly “YE SIN AGAINST CHRIST”

BB thank for your responses,
I know you will usually let most have a say, and that you have the opportunity to delete or file as spam before you allow a post. Some self-incriminate without any further dialog, others require a follow up and still others demand it. And there are those who really want to work out issues, and are truly in tears over some of this, and they are broken. It's really tough out here.


1 Corinthians 10:29-33 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Gordon said...

Hi BB,
I was going to contact you via email and ask you not to post my last post, but then I thought maybe it is just as well that I apologize publicly instead.

I wrote in bitterness…
“Because I was feeling particularly bored, I decided to look up what brigand meant…”

Bitter at past treatment and bitter at this attack against the KJB, so I used the same words brigand did out of spite. I have some emotions to work out here, but shouldn’t do it this way and need to remember all I have been forgiven of. And need to be forgiven yet again now. I do apologize for my bitterness.

Bible Believer said...

I'm glad you looked up the name, because often names can be markers, I once was on a message board where about ONE THIRD of the people had a WOLF as an avatar, I do not think thagt was by accident if you get my drift. The small possibility is that they made brigand up or it is a meshing together of other names, but I found the meaning of what you discovered interesting. I agree we have to be careful of being bitter. With people that try to steer conversations here, or send me hate mail, the best is to just stop communication. I've been banned from many message boards, and over the years, I realized what was going on.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/07/well-this-explains-many-christian.html
Thanks for that Ps 74:4, that is a good verse in response.

And I think your question of her and the Pirate folks too is very valid...

"So my question is; do you want to associate with the enemies of God with your ensigns and avatars and monograms and nicknames and abbreviations?"
I try to give those who are sincere a say Gordon even if they disagree with me, I may lean towards cutting off some of the arguments but don't want to get immired myself in fruitless ones, that I had enough experience with on message boards, see the above article.

Take care, and God bless

Truth Seeker said...

If Chris Rosebrough is in cahoots with Rome then why does he openly and sharply criticize their false doctrine? That doesn't make sense!

Rome teaches salvation by works but Rosebrough teaches salvation by Grace Alone through Faith Alone.

Rome teaches purgatory. Rosebrough blasts their false doctrine and shows Biblically that its not true.

Rome teaches that an elite class of Catholics become saints while Rosebrough shows that all people who've been brought to repentance and faith in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins are saints.

As for the Chi-Rho it is the first two letters of the Greek word Christos and has been used from the most ancient times as a symbol of Christ.

Ya'll have some explaining to do. Jesus was accused of performing His miracles through the power of Bealzebub yet He pointed out that a house divided against itself cannot stand. If Rosebrough is in cahoots with Rome then he'd be promoting Rome rather than attacking their false doctrine.

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/03/what-does-a-jesuit-pope-signify.html

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2008/08/werewolf-minist.html

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/05/saints-an-elite-class-of-christian.html

As for the "pirate" moniker, Rosebrough has explained that the reason for that is because the hard hitting programs that air on PCR were originally pitched to terrestrial Christian radio stations and they wouldn't permit them to air on their stations. Pirate radio stations are those that broadcast outside of established 'systems'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_radio

So, if you're going to take on Chris Rosebrough, then show us where his doctrine differs from what scripture teaches rather than be lazy and claim he's evil because of the Chi-Rho. All that shows is that you're ignorant.

Bible Believer said...

As I have written before if someone cries out some false doctrines of Rome but then sees them as a "fellow Christian" church that just happens to be in "error" or remains proudly in a daughter that practices sacraments which the Lutheran church does then that is a problem.

So even if Rosebrough tells a few truths about some errors within Catholicism, what does it matter if he is in error himself remaining in the daughter church of Lutheranism?

One which by the way is not an offshoot branch but one that has had dialogue with Rome etc.

So Chris Rosebrough has many truths, that came out of the Protestant Reformation, but he also clings to many errors that remain in the "daughter churches". Why can he discern the errors of Rome but not see their workings right within his daughter church of Lutheranism?

I go into far more detail here...

"The Daughters: Protestant Churches #1: Altars and Pseudo-Masses"

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/daughters-protestant-churches-1-altars.html

"The Daughters: Protestant Churches #2: Calendars of Idolatry"

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/04/daughters-of-rome-2-calendars-of.html

"The Daughters: Protestant Churches #3: False Sacraments, Rituals and Rites"

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-daughters-protestant-churches-3.html


http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/07/this-graphic-is-another-steer-person.html

He is in a denomination that is on the globalist, ecumenical bandwagon too.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/06/protestant-daughters-3-mainliners-are.html

Even many of false teachers like Gleiser and others that have been exposed on here, point out errors of Rome. That means nothing if they lead people to new errors or do not discern the problems with the false church system as a whole.

Truth Seeker said...

Your arguments are patently absurd and amount to nothing more than guilt by association (and even the associations you claim exist are dubious and stretch the bounds of credulity).

Using your logic Christians shouldn't believe in the trinity and heres why:

Premise 1: The Pope and Roman Catholicism teach that there is One God who eternally exists in 3 persons. That evil emperor Constantine had a role in forming this Papal Doctrine at the Council of Nicea

Premise 2. Lutherans believe in the doctrine of the Trinity and recite the Nicene Creed during their worship services.

Conclusion: Therefore, Lutherans are closet Papists and are actually doing the work of the Harlot of Revelation.

This is type of argumentation fallacious and UNBIBLICAL. And is exactly what your arguments amount too.

If Chris Rosebrough is guilty of teaching false doctrine then provide the proof from HIS own words and demonstrate from scripture that what he is teaching is false.

Show us what doctrines he needs to repent of and demonstrate that he actually teaches them.

Bible Believer said...

1. Prove the trinity came from Constantine. It's in scripture.

2. Creeds are meaningless. Where does it say recite a creed to be born again?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/09/answering-eric-barger-whats-wrong-with.html

I am surprised you didn't mention the altars or sacraments.

Luther got a few things right but having been a Catholic priest, kept far too much Catholic baggage.

Unless one is in a Lutheran denomination that has renounced Rome directly and the Pope as antichrist--they do exist, {WELS and a few Orthodox branches] if one is in a Lutheran church that is ecumenical with Rome and doing dialogue, that's a problem.

That said even the Lutherans who discern the truth about Rome do not realize that is the source of sacraments sadly.

I would like him to take a close look at why he is a Lutheran and pay attention to the traditions and other teachings that do NOT come from the Bible.

I know Lutheran people, maybe are nice, but sadly, their churches are in error.

Truth Seeker said...

Rosebrough regularly makes it clear he is a confessional Lutheran NOT a liberal ELCA type who are Lutheran in name only. Rosebrough is a member of the LCMS which is the bastion of orthodox Lutheranism in the US.

And Rosebrough being a confessional Lutheran believes, teaches and confesses that the Pope is the Antichrist and Rosebrough has even publicly said as much on two recent occasions.

As for what he believes and the Biblical basis for it regarding the Lord's Supper and Baptism (often referred to as sacraments, which simply means mysteries) you can find all of that by reading the relevant sections of the Book of Concord at this link:

http://bookofconcord.org

I think you will find that confessional Lutherans based their beliefs regarding Baptism and the Lord's Supper exclusively on what scripture says and have no problem eliminating doctrines that have their origin in human tradition.

Bible Believer said...

The LCMS is in dialogue with Rome.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2013/03/they-use-chi-rho-because-they-are.html

see picture of article here:

Why doesn't this bother him?

If he truly believes the Pope is the antichrist he needs to wake up and get out.

The ECLA is like the Unitarians of the Lutheran world, the LCMS the mushy middle...color me unimpressed...

I know people who have left the LCMS for WELS because it is so "liberal"

http://www.issuesetcarchive.org/issues_site/resource/archives/papacy.htm



Truth Seeker said...

Those talks with Rome occurred during the presidency of Gerald Kieschnick (who truly was a liberal) and Rosebrough was one the most important voices and activists within the LCMS in helping to unseat Kieschnick and get him replaced with a confessional Orthodox Lutheran.

BTW, There is more than one way to fight evil within the church. Sometimes the right thing is to stand your ground and fight it. Rather than handing the church over to the devil and his agents its better to put your sword on stand your ground and fight. That is exactly what Rosebrough has done and continues to do. You clearly have NO CLUE what you're talking about nor have you taken the time to learn who Rosebrough is, what he believes and what he's done and continues to do.

Claiming that Rosebrough sits quietly and does nothing and says nothing about those who believe, teach and act falsely in the LCMS is a total joke! Rosebrough is the epitome of 'in your face' action and words proclaiming and defending orthodoxy in the LCMS.

You owe him an apology for your slanderous lies about and for not taking the time to learn the truth but instead thinking you can understand what he believes simply by noting that He's a Lutheran and flies the Chi Rho.

Bible Believer said...

Why on earth would anyone stay in a church in ANY dialogue with Rome? Sure there are those who SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW. He does. I had hoped that this article if anything would have a Lutheran reconsider Lutheranism, regarding the aspects of Catholicism it has kept.

I do not agree with your premise to stay with false churches to "fight", someone told me to do that with the Roman Catholic church itself when I first learned of it's involvements in the one world religion and was getting ready to exit. Then I was born again, and then I had to leave.

Rosebrough may be right about some things, but the core point for me is the so called "graven bread", the false sacraments the Lutheran church retained. I would not attend even a extremely conservative off shoot branch even beyond WELS for this reason.

I disagree with ALL Lutherans not just him.

My line is I refuse to be in any church that is in talks with Rome. Maybe his is different. Blaming it as just "one liberal" doing it, is a song and dance I've heard before. I mean if you have "liberals" like that in your upper church echelons, what does that say? It's like the Republicans complaining about RINOS while the party as a whole sells the country out.

While the IFB is far from perfect with the Dominionists, etc, at least when I attended one, I didn't have to worry about listening to some guy talk about his dialogue with the Pope and visit to the Vatican.

The LMCS DOES consider Catholics, fellow Christians.

http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=581

Under the Catholic section:

"While Lutherans believe that any doctrinal error has the potential to distort or deny Scripture's teaching
regarding salvation, we also believe that anyone (regardless of denominational affiliation) who truly
believes in Jesus Christ as Savior will be saved."

What's with this LMCS president's love of crucifixes? John 6:6 [seen at Ichabod blog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tsOHdD90jk

I've seen a LCMS church before, they have the IHS on the altars too. {Jesuit sign and symbol}

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reclaimnews/message/297

Truth Seeker said...

I hope you're consistent because as soon as leader in the IFB starts going liberal you can't stay and fight for the IFB you're going to have to leave.

As for those talks with Rome the new president of the LCMS ended those.

As for that document you think is so damning because it says that someone who is Roman Catholic may be saved, did you read the document?

Scripture makes it clear that you're saved if you have repentant faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins it does NOT say that you're saved if you're a member of a particular Church Body or NOT saved if you have membership in a particular church body. Their argument is that despite the fact that Rome's doctrines are apostate there are individual catholics who are saved and are our Christian brothers and sisters. If you disagree then prove from scripture that membership in the Roman church automatically makes you a non-Christian.

As for IHS, that symbol does NOT have its origin in the Jesuit Order. That is one of the symbols known as the Nomina Sacra and was a short hand used in ancient (2nd & 3rd Century) Christian manuscripts of the Greek Biblical text, used for important names:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra

You have a lot of very rigid judgments that you make based on either faulty logic or faulty information and at the same time you're identifying some important and dangerous trends in the wider culture. But, you discredit yourself with your guilt by association smears, begging the question and faulty assertions that are easily disproved with just a little bit of research and knowledge.

I suggest that you raise your journalistic standards at least to the level required by scripture:

“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” (Exodus 20:16)

Your primary problem is that you're bearing false witness against your neighbors and you don't know it nor care to know it nor care to take the time to know it. Scripture is clear, that is a sin. Repent. Christ died even for your ignorant lies. He will forgive you.

Bible Believer said...

I don't go to an IFB here because it has a false preacher. IFBs are independent anyhow.

Why would I stay in a denomination where a president can even POSSIBLY think about dialogue with Rome? I mean they don't even have that BASIC down? That Rome is the harlot?

So what? I have seen that caveat made on other mushy-middle documents where they will admit the "errors" of Rome but then leave a get-out clause 2 miles wide for the people within the RCC to be fellow Christians. Those who are truly born again, OBEY GOD and leave.
There is no way a truly saved person could barring intellectual handicaps or others, remain sitting in a RCC intaking their false idol. I'm ex-Catholic remember...membership in the harlot does not make you a Christian.

Nomina Sacra: so some early deceivers used it...it still means "in his name conquer" and has roots with Constantine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

{false scripture}

What false witness?

He's a Lutheran right?

As I said I do not agree with ANY LUTHERANS.

Bible Believer said...

By the way I know a lot of Lutherans I care about, I hate that they are deceived by a church, where they have inherited false scripture, and false traditions via Rome.

Bible Believer said...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/re-daughter-protestant-article.html

Read this article too.

I admit even MOST of the Baptist churches are hooked into Rome.

Your friend Rosebrough definitely needs to take a relook at the "church system", especially the liturgical avenue via Lutheranism and others, its a trap for many.

Truth Seeker said...

Here is a perfect example of how you spew lies ignorantly and refuse to actually fact check what you're saying.

You said, >>Nomina Sacra: so some early deceivers used it...it still means "in his name conquer" and has roots with Constantine.<<

This is soooooo far from the truth that I almost snorted my coffee out my nose because I was laughing at the utter absurdity of what you wrote. Then, as if to flaunt your absurdity and ignorance you posted a link to info regarding Codex Sinaiticus.

Please stop casting aside real evidence and take the time to read and fact check.

Start at this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra

At that link you will find that our earliest copies and fragments of the New Testament (that PREDATE Codex Sinaiticus by a LONG TIME) were

1) Written by Christians
2) Those Christians when they copied the New Testament texts employed a shorthand for certain names in the New Testament (remember paper was VERY expensive back them). For instance.

The greek word for God, Θεός was shortened to ΘΣ

The greek word for Lord, Κύριος was shortened to ΚΣ

AND most notably...

The greek for for Jesus, Ἰησοῦς was shortened to ΙΣ and/or ΙΗΣ (The Latinized version of ΙΗΣ is IHS)

In other words, if you would simply take the time to fact check you'd learn that IHS DOES NOT mean "in his name conquer" NOR does it have its origin in Constantine. It predates Constantine by almost 200 years AND it means simply means "Jesus".

The article I linked to lists ALL of the different manuscripts that we currently possess that employed this shorthand. And if you'd actually read it for understanding then you'd learn that shorthand had nothing to do with deception or the Harlot it was employed by TRUE Christian saints as they faithfully copied the New Testament documents.

Bible Believer said...

false manuscripts full of false traditions.

The Codex Vaticanus (The Vatican, Bibl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Vaticanus

"[1] It was at that point that scholars realised the text differed significantly from the Vulgate and the Textus Receptus.[6]"


http://symboldictionary.net/?p=2090

You need to get away from those false traditions instituted by Eusebius and the like.

Too many things you buy as "truth" that comes from early deceivers and false "church history".

Bible Believer said...

Do you think Constantine was a Christian?

Just curious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labarum

Truth Seeker said...

You suffer from ailment know as "unconquerable ignorance".

Don't worry. I will no longer plague you with facts and evidence that show that you have NO CLUE what you're talking about.

And its clear there is no point throwing these pearls of truth to you.

Bible Believer said...

Since my days of discussions with Catholics on Christian message boards, I guess I forgot how bent out of shape liturgicals could get over their false traditions. This reminded me of some of those conversations. Arguing history with this stuff is usually a waste of time since every side has it's own version. You'll tell me this was used Pre-Codex S, but where's the proof? The Book of Acts warns us the early deceivers definitely where there right at the start.

All I have to say, is where in the Bible does it say come up with fancy abbreviations and symbols for Jesus's name? I did want you to answer the question about Constantine.

courtney said...

I have read through several of your blog posts. This one surprised me, that you would call it a Catholic Symbol. Yes, Constantine used it. Yes, it is the Greek letters used for Christ.

I love how you express your heart, what a discerning person you are! That's very good. I would like to appeal now to your discernment.

Could it be, that a God who created everthing GOOD, and called it good, and who also said 'to the pure all things are pure'... could He possibly take evil and use it for good? Could He give beauty for ashes?

What I see happening in the world is this: God gives us good things. We take those good things, try to pervert them with our sin, and God continues to take our sin, and turn it back into something beautiful. Isaiah, Hosea, Jonah, Ezekiel... great examples of that. Try to look at some of these things from a godly perspective: Meaning; they don't have to stay 'bad'. That's what Satan would like to do--that would seemingly give him dominion, wouldn't it? To allow bad things to remain bad? Like Christmas, for example. The pagan winter solstice was the day picked for Christmas because that light would shine in the face of that pagan holiday. I know that you don't celebrate Christmas, but nonetheless try to see the logic.

Isn't is good to take something sinful and redeem it for good? God would say yes, because He did just that. That's why I love to sing hymns that were formerly bar tunes. That's why I love taking things that the pagans claim as theirs and saying, NO! This belongs to God! It belonged to him before, and now it belongs to Him again.

Truth Seeker said...

You asked >>where in the Bible does it say come up with fancy abbreviations and symbols for Jesus's name?<<

It's right next to the Biblical passages that tells Christians to be bloggers.

As for Constantine being a Christian, I don't know. If he was a penitent sinner who trusted Christ for the forgiveness of his sins then he was a Christian, if not then no.

Teejay said...

Not to deter from the Chi-Rho itself, BUT;
As far as I understand, it is a symbol of The Christ.
Being 'Christian's' -a people OF said Christ- we can say that there is, factually, theoretically, philosophically etc only 1 Christ.
You say Jesus Christ.
I (at this time) understand that Jesus is NOT what the disciples would have called the Messiah, nor the name given to Joseph from the angel sent by God(Yah) - Who too has 1 'real' audible correct 'name'.
So the Chi-Rho, used as a symbol of THE CHRIST who we as brothers and sisters claim to follow, who is our salvation - how can we say it isn't right with God if in fact the name we use daily isn't His authentic name? The catholic church may be perverted but does everything it touches then become like the church? I think it is the other way around; So to me, it reflects an increased AWARENESS of Christ, seeing a symbol of Him displayed in the church and in the radio station add, is only further bringing our saviour to light, into the eyes of more who might see His FACE through a personal relationship with Him. But that is up to the individual.

@Anonymous... "seems the Chi-Rho is also the staff of Osiris who was the Egyptian saviour".

They are NOT the same thing, and beyond having ties to the catholic church, I have not found any information which states the Chi-Rho has any occult connotations. The catholic church adopted a symbol which came from the greek word for Christ. "Pagan Greek" (sourced from Wikipedia) (which could be labelled occult) scribes also used it in the margin of their work to mark important passages.

I am seriously hung up on this symbol, and would love some more input about it, as it has inherently caused some hype here already.
I had planned on getting a tattoo of it next week until i stumbled upon your blog (Which I am thoroughly enjoying! So much awesome information!) I am merely a questioning brother, seeking counsel.

Tamara said...

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't Lutherans believe in baptismal regeneration and a sacramental view of the Lord's Supper?

Jonathan Mayer said...

Dear Bible Believer: Do you think you are actually doing God's work by burdening people's consciences as to something so trivial as a Chi-rho? Nowhere in the Bible does it say to hang a cross around your neck, either, but inasmuch as it is a reminder of Christ's sacrifice, it is not a sin, but a good thing. Your discussion about exactly what point in time the monogram came to be used, by whom, and under what circumstances, is completely pointless—except as an historical curiosity. Catholics also use crosses and crucifixes—does that make it wrong to have them in my home and in my church? By no means! "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm then, and do not let yourselves be burdened by a yoke of slavery" (Gal 5:1). Consider also Paul's words concerning meat sacrificed to idols in 1 Cor. 8. If using a symbol you suggest was created by a pagan emperor is wrong, surely eating meat that was sacrificed to a pagan deity would be doubly sinful!

Symbols are neither commanded nor prohibited in Scripture, yet you are making them a burden to Christians who use them with a clear conscience. In the name of Jesus, stop it. There are enough problems in the church without you wasting your breath condemning adiaphora.

Bible Believer said...

Yes Tamara, they believe in baptismal regeneration, and sacraments including sacramental view of the Lord's Supper though it is not as extreme as the Roman Catholic Transubstantiation, it is close, like a paler version.

Bible Believer said...

I am quite familiar with Lutheranism too since someone close to me was raised Lutheran and have seen Lutheran services, etc.

When I was born again and left the Catholic church Jonathan Mayer, within that week, I threw away my small Mary statue, 3 rosaries, 2 crucifixes which I broke into the trash. Crucifixes are wrong, Hebrews 6:6. I considered all of them idols and the Catholic crucifix with its slumped over "jesus" with closed eyes, is blasphemous too. The Chi-Rho used by Constantine is another false symbol. Why would I keep the symbols of the harlot? My conscience was not clear using these things. God will know who simply does NOT KNOW, and those who cling to traditions and symbols instead of being obedient to Him!

Bible Believer said...

correction, false traditions and symbols...

Bible Believer said...

Tee Jay Sorry I missed answering your post last night. Don't get a tattoo of this, study this issue more. The Chi-Rho is the symbol of the false christ of the harlot church system! This is why the harlot Catholic church used it from the start! Remember I am an ex-Catholic.

Speaking of tattoos, I want to share this with you too.

http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/bible.html

Bible Believer said...

The Catholic church is occult at it's roots. Read this too, where I prove it.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/01/satans-masterpiece-catholic-mass-is.html

Tristan said...

Hi brothers and sisters in Christ. There is much, much disinformation and deception in the so called "church" today.As Jesus warned it would be in the last days.

I stumbled across Pirate Radio from another site and was struck by their logo first thing. The solar compass, the PX symbol and the skeleton. All these things are Not of Jesus, but the world , the flesh and the devil.
Here is a web site that pretty thoroughly explains much of the Truth of this ancient occult symbol. http://www.whale.to/c/px_sign.html
Or just go to www.whale.to

Also, a skeleton celebrates and glorify's...death. And a "praying" skeleton??
The compass symbol is occultic and ancient also.
ALL symbols have been either hijacked by Satan or Created by Satan, a LONG time ago.

There Is nothing new under the sun.

God Is God. He does Not need symbols, that's why He said not to make them.
The Devil needs symbols.He needs them to operate in this world through men.The world the flesh and the devil.

And for you baby, milk bottle drinking Christians, Everything on this earth is either designed, run and controlled by Satan or God.
If it is suppose to be of God,then
Test it By-His-Word!
Test all things.
Nothing is "Just a symbol", or by accident.
Someone designed the logo from an ungodly spirit and the owner of the station as well as others involved with the station are complicit.
Pirate Radio has shown it's "tell"
All satanic and ungodly systems,deceptions and processes Always reveal themselves. In one way or another.
These Are the last days.

The devil masquerades as an angel of light.
Nothing is "trivial".It either glorify's God or the world, the flesh and the devil.
Everything either glorify's Jesus or the world.
The devil has Legal authority over the world and he has been very, very busy for Thousands and thousands of years setting up his--system.
But he Was defeated by the Blood of Jesus! Amen!
The church is Filled with deception..as well as the world.Wake up, grow up and be wise as serpents but gentile as doves.
Glory to God in Jesus mighty name Amen.
Be blessed.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for the Chi-Rho link, that says it all doesn't it. Isn't it an abbreviated sunwheel...

Reminds me of this old article on my blog..

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/08/false-sun-worship-1-solar-wheels-and.html

agree with the rest of your post.

The Chi-Rho is bad enough, but they appear to be marking themselves on purpose tossing in the solar compass, and the praying skeleton.

Jonathan Mayer said...

Bible Believer: First, knowing someone who is Lutheran does not make you "quite familiar" with Lutheranism. There is a wide spectrum of churches who bear the name, some of which do not even claim the Bible to be God's Word. If you want to be "quite familiar" with Lutheranism, read the Book of Concord. It would do you some good, anyway.

Second, in order to prove that you actually do believe the Bible, instead of just quote mining it to support your self-righteous bigotry, you need to read each passage in its context. Hebrews 6:6 has nothing to do with making images; the writer is talking about those who are so infantile in their faith that they cling to outward works. Which, ironically, is exactly what you are doing by breaking your crucifixes and pretending that it makes you holier.

What arrogance! You need to take a long, hard look at the mirror of the Law, and see your own inability to keep it. Try the book of Romans, for starters. Christ's blood is what saves you, not your "obedience." 1 Cor. 2:2 "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." How dare you condemn as sinful something that is the central pillar of your faith?

Bible Believer said...

Being a Catholic will make you familiar with Lutheranism. I am married to someone raised Lutheran and familiar with WELS, ELCA, etc.

Where did I say breaking crucifixes made me holier?

Please don't start with the script calling me a bigot because I believe Lutheran traditions are false.

It's odd, I have noticed a growing acceptance among Lutherans--well WELS seems to be somewhat of a hold out, for everything Catholic, what differences there used to be even though they held the central errors of sacramentalism in general seem to be eroding.

Faith in Jesus Christ leads one to toss a crucifix away where "he" is always shown "dead" on 99% of them. Ever wonder about that? There is the ever ignored 2nd commandment too.

Jonathan Mayer said...

Seeing that you are lacking in understanding about the basic teachings of Christianity, I highly doubt that you understand the theological differences between Lutheran synods. You cannot pretend to be familiar with Lutheranism until you have read the Book of Concord—or at very least, Luther's Small Catechism.

You did not need to say that it makes you holier. When you said, "and those who cling to traditions and symbols instead of being obedient to Him," you set up a false dichotomy between observing traditions and being "obedient." In point of fact, a person can be obedient to Christ AND observe traditions. In fact, many traditions are helpful in bringing a person closer to Christ (for instance, the historic liturgy, which is comprised mostly of songs and quotations from Scripture).

But your false dichotomy between obedience and traditions, is, I gather, the theme of this entire blog. You emphasize obedience at the expense of the free grace of Christ. Just browsing over your posts, I never see any mention of free forgiveness in Christ, or faith, or grace. It's all works and obedience, law and condemnation. THIS is how you crucify Christ anew, as the Hebrews passage you cited explains.

Don't get me wrong—some of the things you rightly condemn, because Scripture clearly condemns them also. But presenting the Law in all its sternness without the sweetness of the Gospel will not make better Christians. It will make self-righteous, loveless, bigots.

Of course Jesus is portrayed as dead on the cross! He died. It is the central fact of Christianity. (Don't take my word for it. Take it from God himself: 1 Cor 1:23-24, 2:2.) But he also rose. And no Christian who keeps a crucifix (that I have ever known) denies the fact of the resurrection. Neither does someone who arranges a nativity set during Advent think that Jesus was perpetually an infant.

If I had a dollar for every time a "born again" evangelical cited the Second Commandment as some kind of prohibition of images, it would buy gas every month. Remember what I said about context? You're missing it. Because not only does Exodus 20:5 show the previous verse to mean "you shall not make, then WORSHIP an image," but the entire context of Scripture shows that God has nothing against making images. In fact, he commanded their making many times. In other words, according to your narrow, self-serving interpretation, God commanded Moses to sin when he instructed the making of the bronze serpent (Num 21:8) and of the Tabernacle (Ex 25-26), the Ark of the Testimony, the Bronze Sea, etc. This is why the false teaching that Exodus 20:4 prohibits the making of images has been thoroughly squelched every time it has been made over the past 2000 years. There is not the slightest shred of biblical support for it.

Jonathan Mayer said...

Speaking of biblical support, where's yours? Where is the verse that says, "Abstain from everything that isn't specifically commanded by God"? On what authority can you say that having a crucifix or using a Chi-Rho is a sin, when God has not forbidden it? Let's take a look at Scripture again:

Ro 3:20-22, 28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. ... Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law."

Following laws, even laws that God himself gave in the Old Testament, does not—and cannot—make you righteous before God. This includes abstention from crucifixes and other symbols that you deem "sinful."

2 Thes 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle."

1 Cor 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you."

Paul praises the congregation in Corinth for keeping the tradition of head coverings. Why? Not because keeping them makes them holier, or even because God commanded it. But because it makes sense according to logic and the natural order (vv 13, 14). In other words, they keep the tradition out of love for Christ and one another. And concerning the food sacrificed to idols (which I gather you did not read), Paul says,

1 Cor 8:7-8 "But not everyone possesses this knowledge [that idols are not living gods]. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not commend us to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do"

Your conscience was wounded by a crucifix because it is weak. You have all this knowledge, but all it amounts to is a conscience that is offended by everything—even the image of Christ! Just as Paul explains, you are no better or worse if you do or do not have a symbol of Christ in your home or your church. The symbol does not commend you to God; rather, Christ's blood does. But insofar as a crucifix reminds me of Christ's death on my behalf, it is not only an indifferent thing, but a GOOD thing.

Laudetur Jesus Christus nunc et in aeternum! said...

All one needs to do is to read this comment board to see why the Protestant revolt of the 16th century was such a disaster for humanity. None of them seem to have the first idea about Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church born of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost that continues to this day and will until the end of time, the Holy Scriptures, or even anything about the ancient Egyptians for that matter.

Rebecca Edwards said...

Just for the record, Mr. Bible Believer, when Christ spoke of Deceivers to his appostles, he was foreshadowing Martin Luther and people like you, who have likely read the falsities of Loraine Boattener's Anti-Catholic book. Dig a little and do your research. Don't be lazy, and don't rely on another "one-of-you" to get your information. Go to the horse's mouth, and ask questions and read books. It is your reputation on the line to give accurate information, and this, sir, is nothing shy of crap.

Bible Believer said...

The Pope is antichrist, and your Popes have advanced a false gospel and one world religion across the globe. I did not leave the Catholic church and then start exposing it based upon Bottener's book, though I have read it and own it, I did so based upon God's Word. You cannot claim, that I have false information. I was raised Catholic and educated by nuns even in habit. I have studied Catholicism in depth and it's false symbols too.

Denise Stover said...

you all are so lost! The Chi Rho symbol is something altogether different. The Chi and the Rho symbols are the first 2 letters of Christ/Christos in the Greek language. Rome does not have anything to do with hollywood. That is the Democrats and homosexuals! Just because you graduate from a Jesuit University does not mean they are a Jesuit. A Jesuit is a priest that takes several vows and is involved with all kinds of education. What history do you read? who are you getting your Catholic "knowledge" from? Do you even have any Ancient Egyptian knowledge? Have you ever actually looked at Osiris's staff? there are no symbols on the staff top or on the body of the staff or on the bottom of the staff that resemble anything Catholic! Try studying before you "preach." and, YES I Am Catholic...have been all of my life! Why did you leave the Catholic Church? You have strayed from The Church, from the original Christian religion. If you think about it, the only religion that was started by a God was Jesus. Every other religion was started by a man, full-blooded, all chromosomes and blind. Yeshua (Jesus) was the beginning of Christianity, the true religion. Many turned away and now the Catholic Church is what's left...the true religion. I am sorry you all are lost and we will pray for you all to find The Truth! God Bless you all!

Bible Believer said...

I am an ex-Catholic. I was educated by nuns even.

The catholic church teaches a false gospel and is instituting the one world religion.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/04/one-world-religion-beast-gets-ready-for.html

atmo joyo said...

to Denise,

Chi-Rho has been found inscribed on rocks dating from 2,500 BC Sumeria,and was interpreted as ‘a combination of the two Sun-symbols’.
Symbols of the ancient shining ones.
As well as being an emblem of the Chaldean sun god and has the definition ‘Everlasting Father Sun’.

monogram Chi-Rho also used as the emblem of the Egyptian god, Horus as symbols of his eyes (the sun and the moon)

Greeks called their version of Horus chi-rho in Herecles or Hercules and applying the Greek Xpnc (Chres) to him.

If anciently the Greek letters chi(X)-rho(P) later came to refer to crestos (XP).
catholic,jesuit used reversing the letters “Crestos”, IS the “anti-Christ” (PX).

Jeremiah 8:2 KJV

2 And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved,
and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought,
and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.

† Scott said...

I stumbled onto this site. And I am immensely sorry that I did. Do you not know the Holy Spirit's instruction to Timothy in
I Tim 6:3-4?

3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

What of I Tim 6:20-21?

20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge "-- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

This thread is the definition of not knowing godliness, morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words (or in your case symbols) the causation of envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions?!

You all can't think of something like what discipleship to Christ means and how best to practice it? Why? Well Maybe because they're people of depraved minds deprived of truth?

This thread is a clear example of
...worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge "-- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.

In the name of my Lord, Jesus the Christ and Son of God, I rebuke you all and pray that you will recognize your sins and repent.

I had never considered the idea that an ex-Catholic, escaping apostasy, could still reek havoc, could deal death among those who profess Christ as their Lord but.

What say you all, is wishing you that the peace of Christ be with you occultic, leading one to apostasy because the Roman Church and the Anglican communion use it in their liturgy, perchance the ancient Summerians secretly called their panoply of gods "Christ" and therefore, if the acolytes of...Osiris (Bible Believer you seem to have a handle on useless knowledge) used it in their idol worship, is it evil? Blasphemers!

Again, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I rebuke you and call you to repent of your sins!

Do you not recognize the "works of the flesh" from Galatians 5 and that some of those are numbered by the Holy Spirit to Timothy? Do you not know that the Holy Spirit speaks some of the most prevalent works in their instruction to Timothy?

And do you not KNOW James 3:13-14

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

Your "wisdom" is earthly. It is demonic. Your bitter envy and selfish ambition are so very evident thus the Holy Spirit says around you is disorder and every evil practice!

Are you proud of your wisdom? What of the wisdom of how to live as a slave to your Lord, to be God's ambassadors to the unsaved, the differences between earthly morality and heavenly Holiness?

I rebuke you for a third time in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and urge you as strongly as possible to repent of your sins and come back to your Lord and Savior of your souls.

The Holy Spirit tells me you, moderator, Bible Believer?, won't post this. How sad it is for the people who come to you seeking God and instead finding all manner of Godless talk. It is as Jesus said of the Pharisees: blind guides leading the blind. But, Grace be with you.

Bible Believer said...

I checked out your blog, you are in a cult.

"I belong to none of the aforementioned communions. I am a product of the Reformation; I am a Protestant. In my community of Faith - the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ, founded by Thomas and Alexander Campbell and Barton W. Stone, in the 1800's - we had/have ministers or pastors, elders & deacons. Careful to avoid the titles and practices of the heretical Roman Church, we didn't have priests or bishops, although we apparently couldn't figure out a way around deacons for Rome has a diaconate with...surprise! Deacons. Oh well, two outta three..."

*****************

http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Church%20of%20Christ/church_of_christ_exposed.htm

Bible Believer said...


1. So you support the usage of Catholic symbols?

2 You believe everyone who says they are a Christian are?

From what I know of Church of Christ it is ecumenical to the core and in with Rome.

Church of Christ churches are listed among WCC listings and more.

3. To call warnings against false teachings, the Roman Catholic church against it's daughters godless shows me you are caught up in many falsehoods.

4. Selfish ambitions? no money is made from this website.

Please stop defending Rome and it's symbols and realize you are in a false church that teaches works for salvation such as baptism.



Anonymous said...

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Bible Believer said...

If I use any false symbols, you can write and tell me. I will take a look at the situation. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

The compass is really just a slightly more elaborate form of the "chaos symbol".

Eva said...

Why is the symbol bad? The Chi-Rho is just an abbreviation for Christ in Greek. Sometimes the Greek letters alpha and omega are included or the letter N, to say Christ our Lord or Christ conquers, and that Christ is the alpha and omega. What's bad about that? By the way, Christ Himself instituted the Church when He said, "On this rock [Peter, the first Pope] I will build my Church" (Mt 16:18), and it's to this day the only institution in history ever founded by God Himself, so if you've got a problem with that, you must think Jesus was wrong in instituting it.

Anonymous said...

Constantine marked the shields of his soldiers with XP. Where I see a shield marked with XP in front of the Pope, others see a Yoni symbol. Draw your own conclusions about each of our own mindsets.

Anonymous said...

None of this actually says anything about the symbol itself. its just potential warnings based off opinionated views of groups and beliefs that use it. The Chi Rho means "Christ" and it was seen by Constantine and his army in a vision from God with the message "with this sign you will conquer" later that night Christ appeared to Constantine instructing him to place it on the shields and staffs of his men saying that it will be a sure defense. Also, I would like to say that Constantine was a Christian.

Kyle Ginnetti said...

Catholics ARE Christian you moron. In fact we are the only TRUE Christians all the rest of you are nothing but jelouse heritics. And as for rejecting the eucharist. In doing so you also reject Christ for he has said "be who does not eat my body and drink my blood has not life within them" you heritics have greatly sinned. I urge you to fall to your knees and beg the lord God for forgivness. Then convert to the one true faith come to the Catholic Church the bride of Christ. And be granted eternal life with the father. God bless.

Chris said...

Please allow me to shed some light on the "chi-rho" symbol. This symbol has absolutely nothing to do with paganism, the Catholic church, the occult, the jolly Roger, pirates, Osiris or anything ancient Egyptian. It is a purely Christian symbol, using Greek letters to represent Christ. The diagonal line is the Greek letter iota ("I") which represents the Greek name of Jesus, Isous. The X and the P are the Greek letters chi and rho, which represent the first two letters of the Greek name of Christ (XPistos). This symbol represents the name of Jesus Christ and nothing else. It is often displayed with the letters NI on its left side and the letters KA on its right side, forming the word NIKA, which is the Greek word for victorious, or he wins. That symbol means, Jesus Christ victorious. That's it. That's all there is to this "chi-rho" symbol, nothing more and nothing less.

Anonymous said...

Great post, best I've read in a long time. We should be praising/proclaiming the gospel, not arguing over foolishness such as this!

Bible Believer said...

Do you believe Constantine was actually a Christian?

Shawn said...

Chris put it perfectly. If you are a Christian studying occult symbols and occult history, understand that by this knowledge, alongside Biblical knowledge, the devil uses cunning tactics to get us caught in this feud. Quit looking at other Christians and saying "Christianity is so messed up." Follow a Bible based belief (action-related) and do the best you can in following Christ in his ways. Look how long this debate is? It is nonsensical. The story of Constantine is well documented, and if in fact the symbol used to be "pagan," it matters not. God takes symbols and takes them because they are rightfully his, i.e., the Cross of Jesus Christ. No one would dare hang a cross in their home, around Jesus' time, but now look, God in His awesome power has it plastered everywhere. God takes ownership of what He deems. Now, going back to Constantine, the same thing happened there. Why are we arguing about the underlying symbolism of the Chi-Rho? God took the symbol because it is his. Don't you people realize that God used Constantine, who was not a believer, and turned his heart into one the belief in the One True God and ended the persecution of his people for a while. The first Christian Roman Emperor. These people hung Jesus on a cross 200+ years earlier and now God takes what was once wicked and makes it His own, and holier than ever. God is great, now live your lives for others and get off the computer and debating about things. God warns about these debates in the Bible many times.

Anonymous said...

The LGBT community has co-opted the Rainbow. Shall we throw that 'symbol'
out too?

Waldemar said...

Incredibly cringeworthy blog post. Protestants also use the symbol. It's on the cover of the Afrikaans Bible.

It's the first two letters of Christ's name in Greek!

David said...

Reading this post and the many comments remind me of how far the church has drifted from what really matters...the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My prayer is that we don't get so caught up in whether this or that is right or wrong but have a portrait of Christ that is more compelling than anything and everything else. Fix your eyes on the cross and never take them off!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjavBRLskpI

Unknown said...

The chi ro is also the true crucifixion of Christ, not the one Constantine envisioned

Anonymous said...

The whole question posed about this radio station and their symbolism seems quite absurd to me. Many of the interpretations of the symbols used are extremely subjective and are actually more telling about the hopes, fears, and past experiences of the person(s) who chooses to interpret the symbols in one manner over it's myriad of alternative possible meanings. A symbol is just an assortment of lines and colors. The meaning of those lines and colors are not only dictate by what they have meant in the past but you must understand the context of the work as a whole and draw probable conclusions from that first. Taking another route only serves to alter and shroud the true intent of the person(s) who created the symbols in their present form.

Just dealing with the symbols on the actual flag:
1) The Chi-Rho
---Occam's razor would suggest that in this case the Chi-Rho was use largely for its' resemblance to the "Jolly Roger". The symbol of crossed swords or bones under a skull is so ingrained with modern society as a symbol of Pirates that you would be hard pressed to find another with even a fraction of the recognizability. Also, the idea of pirates being evil is largely a distortion. Modern culture and even likely in the perceptions of the time pirates where likely seen as "anti-establishment". Monarchies and the wealthy held sway over nearly everything, including a lot of religion, at the time so the symbol of an anti-establishment group that is at least currently being praised and celebritized in massively popular media like the, "Pirates of the Carribean" movies and the "One Piece" tv shows, etc. is an easy shorthand for triggering the emotions of potential listeners into associating the radio station with the traits of a champion against a larger selfish and perhaps corrupt power.
(((For anyone who has perceived any of the symbols in the image at the top of this post to be occult of sinister in nature I encourage them to look at the history of the swastika. I would ask that anyone willing to try an exercise first, write down what they believe the meaning of that symbol to be and then second, to look at it and all of the identical and near identical symbols to it throughout human history and what we understand them to mean/meant.)))

2) The genuflecting skeleton
(I will try to keep these next symbols brief since they were less contentious)
First as stated the skeleton is a symbol clearly associated with pirates and second in most christian symbolism a skeleton symbolizes death. The act of genuflecting in christian belief is well known to be an act of adoration for the host (the body of Christ) and the Chi-Rho is composed of two parts that in greek essential mean "Christ". So in the context of the radio stations symbol in should be fairly obvious that even death bends it's knee to Christ. This is the whole idea of an after life.

3) The 16-point Compass
(((will be posted next)))

Anonymous said...

3) The 16-point Compass
The compass is a clear symbol of travel and especially nautical travel by way of a guiding instrument. Since pirates had almost no other sure means by which to sail in relative safety this symbol has been perpetually linked with them and all sailors. It is also always found on a reliable map which is an item to help you find your way in the world. The 16-points are likely arbitrary in this case but if they aren't it should make sense to people that it would refer to christian numerology (numbers in the bible) which in this case is

The number sixteen is symbolic of love and loving. Christians are to become perfected in God's love not just by physically obeying the Commandments (which should be done anyway) but also by following the full spiritual INTENT of our Creator's laws and judgments (Matthew 22:37 - 40). This duality of true love is represented by 8 + 8 = 16

The number eight represents: Like the Old Testament Passover lamb, Jesus was selected as the Lamb to take away man's sins on the Hebrew day of Nisan 10 (April 1, 30 A.D. - John 12: 28 - 29). He was crucified on Nisan 14 (Wednesday, April 5 in 30 A.D.). His resurrection occurred, exactly as he stated, three days and three nights after he was buried, which was at the end of the weekly Sabbath day that fell on Nisan 17 (seventeen symbolizes victory). Nisan 17 was also the eighth day, counting inclusively, from the time Christ was selected as man's sacrificial Lamb. All this bears record of Jesus' perfect sacrifice and His complete victory over death.

(which again links with the genuflecting skeleton)

Mike Williams said...

this symbol is older then christianity.....this is pagan transfer christianity.....the knights templar used the crossbones and skull besides the fact they had the largest fleet and did engage in piracy this symbol goes to the old saying about the good woman from maraclea...she died and the knight from sidom violated her dead body and a voice instructed him to return in 9 mths for a son...9 mths later he finds a skull standing on the thigh bones and the voice says it will give him all and defend him against enemies.....besides that story it is the same as egypt pharoah with flail and staff crossed....the cross reps duality...male amd female..push against pull...the skull is the castle or protector of mind..this symbol was used secretly by christians to hide.....the templars believed in mary queen of heaven....so do catholics....it is venus anthea....isis diana...that is why the picture with the sign inside the viscera pisces....vagina...fish symbol...christians dont get it....it is the same as osiris ,isis horus....the cath church believes the father,mother and son....this is the pagan tradition.....i dont know if jesus taught and believed this but according to bible it was rejected....the female or skull an be sophia(wisdom)actually bathomet in hebrew reversed is sophia....this is why bathomet is duality...male and female....the cross did not come into popular use till 500 years after christ....this chi rho is the symbol of horus and unless these were laid out as a precursor to the coming christ they are nothing but the pagan beliefs transfered onto christianity to rob it of it all conquering truths....

Yehushua Yitzchaq Ben Yochan (Joshua Isaac Johnson) said...

"Study to show yourself approved"
The Chi-rho is as old as mankind itself! Where do you think they got the name "Cairo, Egypt" from?

I will not give you "The Fish", but I will try to teach you to fish.

1) the CHI OR X (PRONOUNCED kai) & the RHO or P (PRONOUNCED row) are both concepts of the same idea (DEATH, The "Hex", and Saturn AKA Satan) the Rho in it's ancient pictograph form is not a closed P but more like an upside down J (representing a scythe)

These symbols always represent the DEATH of "god" and have been trace as far back as 7,000 Bc to Neolithic Scandinavia. (The hanging of odin on the world, tree pierced in the side with a spear)

Also the heiroglyph for the House of Isis is a cross coming out of a heart...

The true Messiah knew this of course which is why he stressed "ALL who come before me are Thieves and Robbers" including the gods of the old testiment (read it in its true form and you will learn the TRUE GOD is not in the OT.. "NO ONE HAS SEEN THE FATHER, Except through YHWShH (yahushuah)" the bible was written as a lie by men, But the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Wisdom, and SHE Hid HaEmet (THE TRUTH) within IT'S "WORDS".. The bible is not really the WORD of God... It is the word ABOUT THE WORD. Hope I gave enough to make every one start their amazing quest for truth...

PROVERBS 8 & 9 reveals the "Great Mother" the Holy Spirit...Find Her, And she will lead you to The Son, And the Son will lead you to THE TRUE FATHER!!
Cause he is invisible and not of this world... "Satanail created this physicall plane we exist in" that is THE LIE.. GOD is NOT In The Matrix. He exists in "Truth" and us waiting on us to call his TRUE NAME....
Remember The Kingdom is at HAND, And it is WITHIN YOU. (BE STILL AND KNOW THAT "I AM" GOD)

SHALOM my Brothers And Sisters
I can be emailed @ jijohnson1987@gmail.com

Yehushua Yitzchaq Ben Yochan (Joshua Isaac Johnson) said...

You have some great truths here...
Thought I might add some fresh "oil to your Lamp" The Trinity does Contain "The Mother" she is what christians Call The Holy Spirit.. If you learn Hebrew it is easy to see...
And Sophia is just the greek word used for our hebrew "chokmah" meaning wisdom. It is a feminine Noun and "Ruach HaChokmah" = Ruach HaKodesh

To study yourselve read Proverbs chapters 8-9 & Isaiah 11:1-2

Tidbit: "Elohim" is the Divine masculine and Feminine Combined in reference to YHWH.... but Elohim in the OT is "mostly" talking about the "Sons of God"

ARAVAT "Father of Creation" has never entered this Reality.. Only the "Father of light"(the son, YaHuSHua) and The "Spirit of Creation"(Holy Spirit)...

SHALOM, my brothers and sisters

Yehushua Yitzchaq Ben Yochan (Joshua Isaac Johnson) said...

Shalom... But they are not bearing false witness..

Do you know why Yahushua never wrote or drew anything during his ministry? The TRUE GOSPEL is not in a book, it was written on our hearts... The Aleph-Bet is powerful beyond compression and Writting Can be Misused as Curses just like the Tongue.
I.E. the book you call the bible is just that a "Book of TRUTH/life for the righteousness" or a "book of death/lies for the corrupt"
The Same book can heal or kill...which is why im so glad YHWH Hid his true name... it can be used to HEX... Why do you think it mentions "In My Name" over 1,000 times..
(Man is name, and name is man)

If you dont understand the foundations what are you standing on?
STUDY THESE IN BIBLE!!!
Names, Blood, Breath(spirit), and HEBREW.

HOPE YOU CAN CATCH SOME FISH WITH THESE INSIGHTS :)

SHALOM, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

Yehushua Yitzchaq Ben Yochan (Joshua Isaac Johnson) said...

shalom
Just want to share some light my sister. Never try to turn a sin Good... one its impossible only THE MOST High can...
And attempting this yourself without the guidance of the Holy Spirit if harmful and a Sin in its self (Thou shalt not test the Lord Your God), (Love what God loves, and Hate what God Hates), but if you feel that you can bless what The Most High has Cursed, who am I to speak Wisdom? But Fyi (that is the same thinking "SATANAIL" and the popes carry... just something to ponder...
Shalom :)

Unknown said...

You describe how you loathe this symbol and sacramentalism but you faith to see the absolute truth about all of the Catholic Faith's Sacraments. Jesus Christ himself instituted EVERY Sacrament. He told his apostles the sins you forgive are forgiven and the sins you hold stay unforgiven. You can spot out every Bible verse from genocide to revelations trying to prove Catholicism is wrong. If we are so wrong why is EVERY Christian religion trying to prove us and inputs us wrong. This is a proven fact that Jesus's Christ instituted the Catholic faith and all of its Sacraments. The devil has turned all Christian faiths against the Catholic Church because all other Christian faiths are invalid. Catholicism is not invalid. Jesus started the Catholic faith with Peter as the first Pope. Every church was started by a sinful normal human being just like you and me. Jesus was perfect. Only someone perfect like Jesus can start a perfect religion. And the argument always arises how priests are molest boys. That's because they are humans just like me and you that sin. He who has no sin cat the first stone. There is such a small percent of protests who are guilty of this sin. But of course if one does it everyone is just going to assume all of them are. Don't judge because the measure you judge with is the measure you will be judged with. And so what if I'm Catholic. Why are you so worried about what we Catholics do? If you hate us so much why focus on us so much. The baptist faith actually goes to classes to tear us catholics apart. That says something about the baptist faith. If they have to worry about fighting with us so much and we don't actively speak out badly about the baptist. Sure we defend our beautiful faith but we don't have to actively treat apart the baptist faith because we don't have to. That just goes to show Jesus did not start the baptist church. He started the Catholic faith and deep down the baptist have to bash the Catholic Church because they know it's invalid and that goes for all other faiths because Jesus Christ himself did not start them. Jesus only stays something that's perfect. That's why he started the one true church the Catholic Church. The people in the church are not perfect but the sacraments and the faith that Jesus started is. That's why we are the ones that have to be attacked. We don't have to attack.