Sunday, March 25, 2012

Jesus warned about the "synagogues" [churches]



If you notice Jesus Christ did not just warn of governmental authorities oppressing a Christian, but also RELIGIOUS ONES. The word SYNAGOGUE, these verses translates as



Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Luke 12  11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.


This was something I was pondering sometime ago. Jesus Christ himself warned of persecution at the hand of the "churches", not just governmental authorities. Of course this has applied historically to the Catholic church as well as others, but here in Mark 13 Jesus Christ, He is speaking of the last days, referring to the publishing of the gospel to all nations right within that same chapter, and the beginning of sorrows in Mark 13:8. What about the daughters of Rome?

Just something I've been thinking about.

11 comments:

Paula Fether said...

Hi, I've commented here before about how horrible "Christian" message boards have gotten. I decided to look around today and see what else we agree about, and there's quite a lot we do agree on.

However, I would like to clarify some things concerning eschatology which I believe you have weaved together with false teachings and condemned true ones needlessly. If you are willing to allow it, I would like to try and unravel the tangled threads and explain why I believe the pre-trib Rapture has been unfairly maligned (though often deservedly so by inept apologists). If you'd rather not, that's fine and I won't bother you about it.

Bible Believer said...

I am glad you do feel we agree on a lot. Remember I do not consider eschatology a salvation issue and there are saved people out there who do believe in "Pre-Trib". It took me time to even depart from those teachings. Perhaps read this article I wrote about coming away from those teachings and that will help you understand.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/06/leaving-pre-trib-position-behind.html

What teachings do you believe are false?

Bible Believer said...

I checked out your website, some interesting stuff. You do realize I have written against the patriarchy movement here? Not sure if you have seen those articles or not.

http://www.fether.net/2012/03/01/cognitive-dissonance-and-the-political-christian/

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/02/two-sides-of-same-evil-coin-radical.html

Paula Fether said...

Hi BB,

I will read your article, and if you'd like, respond point by point. But I will start out with a brief perspective on my view.

Generally, the errors I mentioned would include lumping pre-trib rapture with Dominionism, or attributing it to Schofield or Darby or MacDonald or Lahaye or Lindsey, as if pre-tribbers don't read the scriptures themselves or do their own research. For the record, I have never read Left Behind, and am completely against Dominionism.

Bible Believer said...

One thing when I write about this stuff, remember the 'truth falling between the middle thing' I always warn about. Rejecting PreTrib, does not mean one's only other option is 2 Peter 3-5 amillennialism. As you can tell I *do* believe we are near the last days. Why would I warn about the one world religion and govt otherwise? I would be interested in what you consider to be the scriptural proofs for Pre-Trib. I am very glad you are against Dominionism.

Paula Fether said...

(this will take two comments)

Yes, we agree that few things are as binary or black-and-white as many think. But one example of this binary is that pre-tribbers must be afraid or something, which my first glance at your article indicated. However, I'd like to just answer your question about why I'm pre-trib now, and then only go on to the article when you're satisfied that you understand my reasons.

I don't know if you are familiar with the wedding customs of the Jews in Jesus' day, but here's how I understand it: The man would go to the home of his intended fiance and offer her a cup of wine. If she rejected it then nothing more would happen. But if she accepted it, they were essentially engaged, much the way we exchange rings in our culture. Then the man would go back to his father's house to build on a new room for the two of them. He could only go back for his bride when his father approved the room as completed. Meanwhile, the bride had to always be prepared, eager to see her groom and ready to depart at any time of day or night. Often the groom would come at midnight, accompanied by his friends who blew trumpets and shouted. When the wedding party arrived at the father's house, the couple would enter the room alone. When they came back out, a seven-day feast would begin.

This is, IMHO, what Jesus alluded to when he told his disciples "I go to prepare a place for you", a clear prophetic promise. He has been preparing the bridal chamber and will return with shouts and trumpets when his Father says it is time. We, the Bride of Christ, are to be always eager and prepared to listen for that shout and trumpet blast. But here's the key regarding pre-trib: We will be with Jesus for seven years, in the room He prepared for us, NOT on earth enduring God's wrath. Some scriptures speak of this concept of being protected or hidden during a time of God's wrath: Isaiah 26:20 "Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by", 1 Thes. 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ", and Rev. 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth." -- and don't forget Enoch and Lot. On the Rev. 3:10 passage, I've examined the Greek there and it clearly indicates being guarded out of something, not strengthened to endure it or go through it.

Paula Fether said...

(part two)

For Christ to skip the feast week and make his bride endure his father's wrath is not only a violation of the wedding analogy, but also means that Jesus' blood did not fully cover us. In fact, I could turn the charges around; I could say that rather than pre-tribbers being afraid, non-pre-tribbers are proud and arrogant for thinking that they will somehow prove their superiority. This view is actually the one that comes closer to Dominionism because it thinks either it must take up the sword for the cause of Christ or is to be martyred as no others ever were. It also counts as nothing the suffering that believers of all ages have bravely endured, as if only tribulation saints are counted worthy enough to go through this special wrath of God.

So since there is scriptural precedent for people being taken out of a time of judgment, and since Jesus Himself used wedding custom to tell his disciples where he was going and why, I see a strong support for the view that the Bride of Christ will be taken to our "rooms" in heaven for seven years (not a moment, or 3-1/2 years, etc.). This being years rather than minutes or days or weeks comes from Daniel's prophecy of 70 'sevens' with one yet remaining, and since the previous 69 were years, so also must the last 'seven' be.

It is The Christ I look for, not the Antichrist; I cannot imagine a groom who trades the bridal week of pleasure and joy for "a time of suffering, a kind that has not happened from the beginning of God's creation until now, and certainly will never happen again" (Mk. 13:19). Why do non-pre-tribbers think that the Christians of this era should suffer more than any have ever suffered before? And why did the apostle Paul say in 2 Tim. 4:8, "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing"? We who can't wait to see Him, who watch for "the signs of the times" that Jesus mentioned, are motivated by love, not fear. But we have been given "this blessed hope" as Paul put it in Titus 2:13, and it isn't the appearing of the Antichrist but the Christ.

This is getting too long, but I hope it at least gives some idea of why I see pre-trib Rapture in the scriptures, and that I don't see it only because I'm a coward or an ignoramus who hasn't heard all the theories. (Not saying you think this, but it's been stated directly or indirectly by everyone I've ever met who rejects the pre-trib Rapture.)

Anonymous said...

/ Thanks, Galatians..Saw this on the never-boring net. Alma /


PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRETS

How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He's now there with the Father) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, the too-hot-to-handle Acts 3:21!) Since Jesus can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends (Acts 2:34,35 echo this), the rapture therefore can't take place before the end of the trib! (The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters"!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the posttrib end of “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel's posttrib resurrection!)
Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!).
Other Google articles on the 182-year-old pretrib rapture view include "Pretrib Rapture Politics," "Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes," “Famous Rapture Watchers,” "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," “X-Raying Margaret,” "Edward Irving is Unnerving," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” "Walvoord Melts Ice," “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" – all by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (see Armageddon Books).

Anonymous said...

The same Ethiopian symbols the synagogue of Satan has to use to try to rise evil over good in deception.

Anonymous said...

The star of Jacob represents the combination of spirit and body. The spiritual man. There are concepts six sided, cornerstone angles, east, west, north and south.

Unknown said...

May the Lord our creator and Jesus Christ as our Only savior be with me and guide these words of mines that I will comment here be the truth of what I believe in my heart and is real and also as a result of my interest of seeking our Lord's only and real truth...
Ok I believe that the word "world" is not of the creation God made... Since He created "Earth" not a world... I Also believe our Earth is "Flat" since in the Bible its mentioned in every "Edge" and also mentions the earth standing still meaning that Earth does not move.. My name is Jessica Santamaria I strongly knew of The Lord being real not only in my mind but in my heart and no one could ever convince me of other because of what I only experienced and know of that no one else could've known but my Mighty Lord.. He has proven many times and other than that the Bible repeats it self because if u believe.. You will see our lives written there... The church where the signs where given to me is a Christian church which I myself don't consider myself nothing SINCE ALL I WANT AND IS SEEKING FOR IS TO WORSHIP THE LORD THE RITE WAY... ITS AMAZING HOW MANY EVIL TRAPS ARE THERE OUT THERE AND WE DON'T EVEN KNOW OF THEM AND MANY EVEN ARE PART OF IT WITH OUT EVEN BEING AWARE OF THE WRONG PATH... THE CHURCH I GO TO HAS A ISRAEL FLAG" IN THE FRONT WHERE THE PREACHING IS DONE... I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT IT WAS BLESSED BY THE LORD AND THAT THE PREACHER WAS INCREDIBLY ADMIRED BECAUSE OF HIS COMMUNICATION WITH THE LORD AND ALSO BECAUSE IN FEW OCCASIONS SOMETHING HAPPENED TO ME WHILE PREACHER WAS PREACHING THAT I MYSELF TILL THIS DAY CANT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND AND NO ONE HAS EVER MENTION ANYTHING TO ME... I ALSO HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH OF WHAT I EXPERIENCED AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD OF ANY ONE EVEN CLOSE TO EXPERIENCEING WHAT I EXPERIENCED THROUGH OUT MY BODY THAT I CANT SEEM TO EVEN EXPLAIN MYSELF... I THOUGHT MAYBE SOMEONE IN CHURCH WOULD MENTION OR EXPLAIN TO ME SINCE I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN MY HEART THEY KNEW SINCE THE DAY I WALKED IN THERE OF WHO I WAS... BUT NOTHING I CANT DENY THAT THE MORE RESEARCH I DO THE MORE CONFUSED I GET OF WHO TO TRUST AND BELIEVE NOW... SO MY ONLY WAY IS THAT MY NEW RESEARCH WOULD BECOME ONLY WHAT IS IN THE BOOK OF LIFE THE BIBLE... I KNOW WE CAN DO THIS EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE AND HARD... BECAUSE THE TRUTH WILL NEVER FAIL AND GOD WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED REGARDLESS OF WHO, WHAT, AND ALL!!!