Saturday, February 11, 2012

A Variety of Links #7

From Fanatic for Jesus:
"Wheaton College Welcomes Secret Society Archbishop of Chicago"
Cardinal Francis George is the spiritual leader of 2.3 million Chicago-area Catholics, and he's up to his elbows in ecumenical activity. On March 26, 2012, Reformed pastor John Armstrong and Archbishop of Chicago Cardinal George will come together at Wheaton College for “A Conversation on Unity in Christ’s Mission.” One of their shared interests has been a greater conversation between the Evangelical community and the Catholic Church.

Hey the MAJORITY of the Reformed and Calvinists are joined with Rome, it's another daughter, even though there are Reformed people like James White who reject Catholicism they need to trace things to the root.

For those who think the Catholic church sex abuse has ended. It hasn't.

Roseanne is running for president on the Green Party ticket. For those who want to see the affects of possible celebrity mind-control, her blog speaks for itself. I am not going to post to it, is so awful but for me it was a picture of deception.  It is interesting how she exposes some things like Monsanto but with a twist and including witchcraft and goddess worship.

This blogger asks, WHERE ARE THE CHURCHES? when it comes to the HOMELESS? Hey while all the false prophets tell people to send their money overseas and to help out the United Nations, they ignore the poor right in their own communities.

I wanted to share this website long ago. Any of you remember when Reverend Moon got crowned King at the Senate Building? Reading the book "Reverend Moon Rising" would be of interest.

Mystery Babylon Overlaps: "I am a Unitarian Universalist Roman Catholic"

"Government Uses Anti-Terror Laws to Crush Dissent and Help the Too Big to Fail Businesses"

They are moving more towards labeling Bible believing Christians as terrorists.

Picture caption: In This Photo: Michelle Duggar, Jim Bob Duggar
TLC's "19 Kids and Counting" stars Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar at the 2012 Conservative Political Action Conference at the Marriott Wardman Park in Washington DC on February 10, 2012.

CPAC meeting, see here, and here to see a whose who list of the false religious right working hand in hand with the political order. Sarah Palin, Michelle Duggar AND Kirk Cameron were scheduled to speak. By the way the CNP was represented as well, with the executive director doing the invocation. 

Kirk Cameron's new project. If he wants America to stay secure and prosperous why does he support Republican leaders? He is definitely one trapped in the right and left deception:

There too the emphasis on THIS WORLD.....

Is America still the richest freest country? I mean they tell us that all the time, freest no longer applies with NDAA and TSA....

It looks like an advertisement for Dominionism....

hanging out on a "monument"

They call themselves "generations of light", seems rather occultic. The logo has the Saturn swishes in it too. Is this like "points of light"? Headquarters is in Colorado Springs. The patriarchy movement is advanced with these "purity balls". Another "purity" cult? While purity is a good thing, it is to be guided by God, not used as control via man. This reminds of the focus on celibacy in the Roman Catholic church.

David Cloud: "Independent Baptists Playing With Fire". The churches who have kept AWAY from CCM are are growing more and more rare. 

From new4themasses: "Christians in the culture war but defending Apostasy"

This is a good article detailing hypocrisy of AFA:

The Culture Warriors have it all wrong, we Christians are not to judge the lost, we are to judge the brethren by their fruit and we are being corrected to this fact by non-believers! The world is the world, it will do as the world does

From news4themasses as well: "Jesuit Trickery: White House Honors Jesuits while Catholic Church cries Wolf"

"On Wednesday, January 25th, Jesuit Father Charles L. Currie, Jesuit Father John P. Foley and Jesuit Father William P. Leahy were three of the nine leaders in Catholic education from across the country who was honored at the White House as Champions of Change for their service to their communities and our nation.
These extraordinary individuals have made a significant impact on the students, families, and educators through Catholic schools and universities throughout America. Their innovative ideas and dedication to students and to the wider community, demonstrate the strong commitment to ensuring that every child has an opportunity for greatness.
“We are thrilled to recognize these extraordinary Champions in Catholic Education at the White House. Each of these nine leaders embody the values of education, innovation and service through their stellar contributions to Catholic schools and the wider communities they serve,” said Alexia Kelley, Senior Policy Advisor White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. “These Champions, like their colleagues in Catholic education across the country, inspire all of us to build up our communities and our nation’s young people.”
The Champions of Change program was created as a part of President Obama’s Winning the Future initiative. Each week, a different sector is highlighted and groups of Champions, ranging from educators to entrepreneurs to community leaders, are recognized for the work they are doing to serve and strengthen their communities. (emphasis mine link to site is not an endorsement)
Hmm, The Jesuits are behind Obama? Is he, could he be, an “agent of change” for them?
The Catholic church supports Obama and what he is doing to this country, don't let the smokescreens fool you. Obama was even trained by Cardinal Bernandin you see....[I need to do a post on that too soon]

A reader sent me this link: "Apostasy Called Revival – The Rise of Celtic Spirituality Update"

The blogger is correct that Celtic spirituality is related to paganism and one of the things used with the Emergent churches to bring Babylon in the door.  If you see Celtic symbols on any ministry, be wary. Some may be ignorant of what they mean, while others use them for a marker.


Anonymous said...

I think you have good advice that is best taken rather than merely given.

Trace it to the root.

Don't just say meaningless trivial things with no shred of evidence. What things do they need to trace to the root for example? You are guilty of the very same thing.

For example, David Cloud promotes dispensationalism, and J.N. Darby. But you link right to him. David Cloud will talk about CCM and ungodly musicians and gasp... even worse... background music from godless musicians as definite footprints of the devil... Yet HIS OWN GOSPEL VIDEO USES UNGODLY MUSIC. Bla-bla-bla KJV bla-bla Only- bla, but David Could promotes J.N. Darby who HATED the KJV. Hypocritical people who I have written about these issues. And they don't care. Just buy another one of my books or something... (I have purchased a lot of material from Way of hypocracy (David Cloud) and sorry to have wasted the money)

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2Tim 3:16

Bible Believer said...

Hey, how many times have I posted sometimes I link to an article that does not mean 100% endorsement. How many are warning about CCM out there? I know on this blog Ive written once or twice I do not agree with Cloud on everything. I actually did not know he promoted Darby, but I guess it makes sense with the Pre-Trib or dispensationalism. Darby is one of those deceivers that pops up all over the place.

Show me the gospel video, not sure where you mean... So you bought a lot of books from him? What bothered you the most to stop doing that? The dispensationalism? As you know, I will check stuff out. Hey with the teachers, whose left to post? LOL I can barely even find any that aren't Pre-Trib, how many does that wipe out like 95%? With some I can consider it ignorance and not out and out knowing deception, so try to have some understanding there, took me time to even figure out the Pre-Trib deception with prayer and study. Not sure what to think in Cloud's case, probably a lot of IFB influences and IFB while there are some exceptions is still mostly dispensationalist/Pre Trib, though I have met a few Mid-Trib and other types. Not sure what to even think about that, I wonder why so few even look more deeply into the Pre-Trib stuff.....

Anonymous said... Is the link to the Video. And the music is by Kevin MacLeod

Kevin only asks that if you use his free music on your video, that you give him credit on the video. Way of Life failed to do this, so I contacted them. They then donated something to Kevin for a "royalty fee", but the irritating thing was that Way of Life's stuff... all of their stuffffff is plastered with copy-write disclaimers and if anyone should be um... ,sensitive, to obeying copy-write laws and wishes... it would be them.

Kevin MacLeod is not a Christian or Saved. His music is great, and what a wonderful thing he does in giving some of it away royalty free, I've used it myself which is why I recognized the music in the Way of Life Gospel Video. I had just gotten done listening to a David Cloud Sermon, an older one, in which he soundly denounced using any music in Church that wasn't from *Saved musicians. Of course his rule doesn't apply to him, only you. (here is the sermon, you will understand the bold hypocrisy from this hypocrite on display in this situation) (to save you time it starts about 11:30 and runs awhile)
"who makes the music, do you have any spiritual standards..."
"not even saved people! Do you allow lost people to sing in your church?!" That music creates an atmosphere... you better be careful, you better be a lot more careful, more careful about the slippery slope of refusing to hold high standards..." spiritual anarchy... Beware of building bridges to the world with our music..."

It's the same wafting stench that is evident when he sells and promotes J.N. Darby on one hand, and thumps *KJV only* on the other. It's like his ever changing details in his own personal testimony. Listen to anyone long enough and you'll notice none are as clean as they pretend, and David Cloud/Brian Snider are not about to admit any fault of their own, and remind you that repentance is for you not them. He wrote the/a book on it!

I didn't escape dispensationalism until after David Cloud, but what bugged me the most about him was J.N. Darby clearly hated the KJV, and D. Cloud didn't care a hoot about his hatred of the KJV. (D.Cloud is supposedly a KJB defender, I purchased a bunch of his stuff for that reason) We also got sick of his use of "bible words" to swear with. D. Cloud doesn't do all of his own research, oh... neither does Scott Johnson.

Trace it to the root. amen

Anonymous said...

...You Said...
Hey with the teachers, whose left to post?

Sickeningly sad isn't it? If you just read what is written is just says "teachers"

2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Tim 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Now I have to ask who is wrong, them or me. If you ditch dispensationalism and covenantalism what is left? If you ditch Calvinism and Armenianism what's left? If you refuse to listen to Church History and don't even examine it, what "root" are you tracing out?

Bible Believer said...

Hey if you have been around long enough on this blog, I have quoted that verse many times. The churches and teachers are falling away. Even the fundamentalist world as I wrote here is being infiltrated to the max.

Why on earth would an ex-Catholic Christian give an creedence to church history? "Church history" where they praise false teachers like Augustine and false councils that built up false church authority? No Thank you. I had my time online even discussing these things with Reformed types and others who told me to look to "history". One thing about "history", I love it and have studied it on my own. I'm the type of person who checks out history books from the library and reads 4 or 5 for FUN. Same for church history, I've seen the Jesuit and Reformed version of the facts and all of it.

What if BOTH are wrong. Remember that two sides against the middle thing, I constantly discuss here? It happens in more places then politics.

With the root, there is Biblical Christianity and Rome and it's daughters. I am working now on an extensive article dealing with the "daughters".

Bible Believer said...

With "history" even though I like reading it, one better love God's Word more.

in other words, do not listen to men over what God!

With church history ALL OF THE CLAIMS are on genealogies, you know where Rome claims bishop so and so knew this apostle and that apostle.

Well unless I see it written in God's Word I do not believe it.

1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].

I know so many are run amuk with "history". I have for myself seen people run off the rails. You have to stick to God's Word, the devil has plenty of deceptions for people out there.

Bible Believer said...

With your longer post, one thing with teachers, I am not handing 100% trust to anyone but God. I tell people here to do that too. And I say test everything on this blog too. I do not know anything about MacLeod. I could see someone just grabbing music off line to put on a video, where they thought the tune sound ok, and did not investigate things further. With Darby, I do not know why David Cloud did not connect Darby who hated the KJV. Could you show me some of the links where he supposedly praises Darby? I found this...

but that writing seems neutral, couldn't tell.

Remember I do not agree with everyone I link to 100%. With David Cloud, there are things I disagree with like in this article:

I was going to write him, but haven't about this section:


I think that can be bad advice...especially as bad as the churches are going, but this article is almost 10 years old, and yes, things have changed that fast

After what happened with a certain teacher we thought left a certain church to 'expose' it, you do not have to worry about me being a blind defender of man, but I usually want to see their words for themselves. Some people also may not know about Darby....that one too took time of study, and finding websites exposing Darby, is kind of what cracked open the Pre-Trib stuff. Look how pervasive Pre-Trib is in the evangelical and fundamentalists worlds, I am discovering recently just how pervasive it is, and how much scripture has been ignored.

Anonymous said...

Silly girl, if you don't get to the bottom of the truth about church history, you are already prey. or shall I say STILL PREY to the RCC who wants to change history, blur it, and eliminate it. They ARE doing that!!! you better ask why.

You better get to that tracing out the root stuff. Seriously.

I notice on some occasions that so called reformers don't even know what Augustine or Calvin taught (some say Calvin believed in inerrancy of the Bible and some say he didn't), they just parrot the patron they learned from. You are re-blogging someone else's stuff on this, you better start tracing out the root yourself. Really.

You post enough stuff from others who are guilty of the same re-blogging, why not break the chain of misinformation and become a source of researched information instead of just being under another sorcerer?

Practice what you preach!

Hang in there! Finish the race!
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

I'm begging and pleading and badgering and poking in the hope that YOU will do your own research, and that... DILIGENTLY!

Bible Believer said...

LOL usually I do not post comments with insults, but want to see where you are going with this. I am far too old to be a "girl".

What do you consider the bottom of the truth about church history?

Are you one of those hard-core Presbyterians that at least sees Rome as the harlot but is still in the trap of considering Augustine to be one of the good guys supposedly that Rome hijacked or are you trying to tell me the church system is ROTTEN down from top to bottom. The latter, well read more of this blog.

THE RCC wrote the history.

You in agreement or not?

and most of the churches out there are DAUGHTERS.

and remember, they got most of the baptist churches in their clutches now.....

and the Freemasons, are already are hooked into that system, even on the fundie level, so what are you trying to plead about, badger and go on about?

What history do you believe Rome is trying to blur? They OWN history. Yeah they do. I don't even post about the false secular history that this country has itself, the Dominionists saying the deist, masonic founders were Christians is just one avenue of that deceit.

I have no problem with tracing out the roots of things.

With ROME... and history, its FORGERIES. LOTS AND LOTS OF FORGERIES and the daughters that seized on them.

LOL I spent time reading the different versions of all these guys, all the different denominations and Rome have.

So what do you want me to research that is not being researched?

Bible Believer said...

You can email me too.

I am an ordinary person, so no army of researchers for this blog...LOL

Anonymous said...

LoL you don't get to play the “Ordinary Person” card when you are the “Teacher”. When a person uses statements and commands like “I have warned you”, “I have written”, “I am telling you”. “It's my duty to tell you”.

These are clear indicators who is the one doing the teaching, and because you pick and choose who is heard and who isn't you are also the judge and jury and censor. You also pick the topic you post on, so because you posted it you are responsible for what you post.

“Ordinary Person” can't honestly and fairly be used by you in this context.

God is far greater than to let one heretical group have absolute control over History. Your statements that the RCC “Owns” history are false statements, -unless you have traced that out to the root and can provide evidence. (Islam would have an opposite opinion for example)

This blog is filled with sensational statements like that, and a person discredits themselves when they say stuff like that that no one can possibly substantiate. It makes them sound superstitious, because it is. If you have truly left dispensationalism, consider the terminology surrounding the “end of the world now” talk it's their trademark. Trace it out to the root.

If you stop listening to Hypo's like Scott Johnson (contendingforttruth that you link to), you have a lot better chance of finding the truth rather than the sensational. Johnson was KICKED OFF of Sermon Audio. Dishonesty isn't a Godly trademark, and should be held in disrepute not admiration. Trace it out to the root.

You didn't follow or investigate what I posted already, so I doubt any further factual evidence provided by me for you will be used or considered by you, so I won't waste our time answering more for now.

If you want to know what David Cloud thinks about J.N. Darby, ask him yourself. Trace it out to the root. ;)
If you want to cast stones at Augustine, read his own stuff, don't just take what Scott Johnson or others who don't actually do their own research say. Trace it out to the root.

I don't have a denominational affiliation of any kind that I know of, I'm still working out these issues and tracing it out to the root. There are a lot of rabbit trails....

Bible Believer said...

Maybe you should start your own blog....

There are some who are ordinary people exploring things. I am one of them. I do not put myself above anyone else. People can take what I write here and test for themselves or not, but their first source should be God's Word and what HE says. I am no one's guru.

As for picking and choosing who is heard or not, in these days of false ministries and one's own restriction and time, Id rather my readers take their own responsiblity to check things out with God's help. There is enough spiritual hand-holding going on out there, leave the things of babes behind. I may have time to explore or question somethings but being one human being and one mere blog, do not have the time to energy to cover everything. That is the responsiblity for each individual to do with God. Now if someone gives me NEW information about a ministry, sure I'll look into it.

You must have misunderstood what I said about 'owning history" I should have wrote instead to make it more clear "owning world history and what messages are out there" not meaning they were in CONTROL. They want control and have you ever heard the saying "winners write the history", that is what I meant.
I am not an academic, nor do I have endless teams of researchers for this blog. I have my own limitations I seek to be honest about. The big names, have writers and more working under their name. So if you consider my opinion that history itself has been written ['co-opted'] by those who have "controlled" this world to be false, then tell me why?

Don't just give me slogans that sound nice, like 'trace it to the root' without even telling us what your own personal beliefs are. Where are the odd defenses of Augustine coming from?

And what is the stuff about superstition?

If you want anyone to hear what you have to say, being vague on purpose does not help one in the cause of communication.

As for dispensationalism, read 1 Peter 3:15, I know there are some out there, who question bible prophecy in itself, they see the world as maybe even going on another million years. Those types do not own prophecy. I consider Preterism vs. PreTrib to be two opposite sides of the false coin. We can read God's Word and what it says.

I don't trust the early church fathers, and I had my time reading the Protestant version of their writings and the Catholics, yes there are TWO versions for some online. I'll stick with God's Word rather then those folks, because who even knows which is a forgery or not?

You are right about there being a lot of rabbit trails, but please leave the vagueness for the academics trying to impress and well, tell me what you exactly MEAN.

Anonymous said...

The reasons I don't blog are twofold 1. I haven't been called by God to blog. 2. I don't make sense even when I try really hard. :0)

I'll try again. Thanks for hanging in.
Would you (BB) quote Augustine (whom you brought into this conversation) in your articles as a valid purveyor of truth in your opinion?

WHY NOT? He has a lot of good things to say, and a lot of absolutely right things to say, so right that they became noted as foundational Christian Theology. He would have stood against the RCC on Semi-Pelagianism or any form of Pelagianism. Just because they claim him as their own, makes as much sense to discrediting him as does discrediting the KJV because Peter Ruckman endorses it.

The argument you just had in your head to justify your not wanting to quote Augustine anyway, is the same one I would use to not quote David Cloud. So on the grounds that he mixes truth with lies, I would not send you to someone I know teaches false things, --- even with your standard and faulty disclaimer --- “I don't fully endorse any man...” (I'm suggesting you do your own research on the topic you are posting about... CCM ...and post your own findings to avoid sending someone to a trap)

In another thread, “LutherRocks” said this, “You are painting with broad strokes.”

I know for a fact it's not the first time you've heard that, and the reasons is because you leave too many open ends,

In this article you STATE:
“Hey the MAJORITY of the Reformed and Calvinists are joined with Rome, it's another daughter, even though there are Reformed people like James White who reject Catholicism they need to trace things to the root.”

More broad strokes...
Where did you come up with this information? What research did you actually do to substantiate that claim? What numbers are we talking that make up the “MAJORITY” and in what country? What branch of Reformed or what type of Calvinists are you talking about, to what are you making a comparison? What do you mean exactly by “joined with Rome” in what way do they support Rome?
What exactly do they need to trace to the root? What of James White? Are you suggesting his research on this topic, where is that research? Are you suggesting he needs to trace things to the root? Why drop James White's name at all, does it have some relevance to your assertion?

Symbols and swooshes and other markings do not have power in themselves. This is superstition and a form of Animism. Idolatry. Pointing fingers at occult symbols doesn't provide a “reason” to run. As you demonstrated to me when I tried to point out a bad choice in background music for David Cloud you passed if off as nothing saying... “I could see someone just grabbing music off line to put on a video, where they thought the tune sound ok, and did not investigate things further.”

You would need to demonstrate the symbols have a magic power in themselves to be dangerous, which you can't. You can't even demonstrate that each use of these symbols you cite is purposeful and intentional. Relying on your ability to spot them, doesn't add any credibility to yourself or the article, when left dangling without reasons to note why you are pointing them out each time, demonstrating they are anti-biblical. I only believe the Bible and you can't find those symbols there...

Bible Believer said...

Evidence for the majority of reformed and calvinists being joined to Rome..



The Church as Community of Common Witness to
the Kingdom of God

Report of the Third Phase of the International Theological Dialogue
between the Catholic Church and the
World Alliance of Reformed Churches (1998-2005"

Directory of member churches [see ones in the USA]

{ I took out the other dozens on this list world wide, check it out}

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Presbyterian Church of Wales
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Union of Welsh Independents
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland United Free Church of Scotland
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland United Reformed Church
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland The Presbyterian Church in Ireland
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Church of Scotland
United States of America Christian Reformed Church in North America
United States of America Cumberland Presbyterian Church
United States of America Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America
United States of America Reformed Church in America
United States of America Evangelical Presbyterian Church
United States of America Hungarian Reformed Church in America
United States of America United Church of Christ
United States of America Korean Presbyterian Church in America
United States of America Lithuanian Evangelical Reformed Church
United States of America Presbyterian Church (USA)
Uruguay Waldensian Evangelical Church of the River Plate
Vanuatu Presbyterian Church of Vanuatu
Venezuela Presbyterian Church of Venezuela
Western Samoa Congregational Christian Church in Samoa
Zambia United Church of Zambia
Zambia Reformed Church in Zambia
Zimbabwe Reformed Church in Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe Presbyterian Church of Southern Africa

Other Presbyterian and Reformed ones, as well as these probably are hooked into Lausanne as well, and other oreganizations.

Bible Believer said...

Would you (BB) quote Augustine (whom you brought into this conversation) in your articles as a valid purveyor of truth in your opinion?


"St. Augustine, Sermons, [227] A.D. 391-430:

... I promised you, who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the Sacrament of the Lord's Table, which you now look upon and of which you last night were made participants. You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ. Through that bread and wine the Lord Christ willed to commend His Body and Blood, which He poured out for us unto the forgiveness of sins. If you receive worthily, you are what you have received."

Bible Believer said...

"Symbols and swooshes and other markings do not have power in themselves. This is superstition and a form of Animism"

Where did anyone say they have power in themselves? Some use in ignorance but there are those used to mark territory for Satan.

Anonymous said...

I try to say too much in a short line, so you really have to leave my sentence structure and context alone to figure out what I say.

Now I'm not picking but your responses haven't answered the questions. You didn't prove a MAJORITY nor did you explain how the Reformed and Calvinist churches are supporting Rome as in "joined" to Rome. You know Image worship, transubstantiation, indulgences.... To prove Majority you need a list of ALL Churches all over the World and your EVIDENCE of each Church that demonstrates agreement from each that clearly indicate "joined". It's not really possible to do, so the question is asked is actually "loaded", the hope of mine was to show you the hopeless nature of the unquantifiable statement made.

Your Augustine quote does not demonstrate "transubstantiation" read it again, just as it is written. (if you were hoping to prove transubstantiation with this quote, I'm not sure what else your point might have been)

If you are going to discount "Purity Ball" with guesses and innuendo and Saturn Swishes, your argument appears based on speculation and superstition.

The Kirk Cameron thing actually ended up being different than how you portrayed it too. After watching the clip here, one of the related video's actually explained it further, and the vague innuendo of dominionism is going to be lost on anyone who actually looks a little closer at that one too.

Now the question I ask myself is... is the writer of called of God to "expose" this stuff? If so, I need to pay attention. If not, and the evidence continues to be vague "pot shots" then I will warn once or twice, then move along. But I have invested a considerable amount of time reading your stuff and hoping to have found "kindred", and so my words are really meant to exhort.

Bible Believer said...

LOL, I have to make a list of 10s of thousands of churches and ask every one individually to meet your burden of proof? If the Reformed and Calvinist churches were not joined to Rome, they would not be an active part of multiple Rome run interfaith enterprises and part of the World Christian movement. I always see their name on the list. The 4 largest Reformed churches in America are part of the Vatican run WCC, and you try and tell me different? That is almost funny.

I've dealt with types online who want to nit pick and argue every definition of every word such as your quibble of the word "joined". Sorry the WCC is joined to Rome, and no two ways about it.

There are other Augustine quotes, that back up Rome's false teachings. Augustine and other early false church "fathers" that the Reformed run after is one reason they have false traditions and teachings. Ah some Protestants try to claim Augustine didn't believe in the Real Prescence, but there are endless quotes to say that he did. IT's one of those endless quibbles...

The evidence is there, that Augustine believed in Purgatory and the rest.

Anyhow every Protestant I have seen who follows Augustine and sees him as a valid teacher always goes WRONG.

Remember I told you about the Protestant vs. Catholic version of facts here. Anyhow its ALL wrong. This is one reason probably that Calvin felt justified in burning Servetus at the stake putting people to death just like his Roman forefathers.

Anyhow telling me a quote does not say what it does when it is right in front of my eyes. I had my fill of that on Christian message boards.

"Purity Balls" are part of the Dominionist movement, you want to quibble that one, that is wasting your time. Any how what for girls without Christian fathers? Young women should be looking to their Heavenly Father regarding their purity not to man.

Kirk Cameron has so many links to Dominionism, that one you will lose on as well. Unless Kirk Cameron denounced the Republican party, its candidates, CPAC which he just spoke at, the new world order or Vision Forum, in that movie, then you have proved nothing. I wrote honestly I was just showing the trailer and have not seen the entire movie. So your references to vague innuendos to Dominionism when Kirk Cameron has been full-blown involved in the groups and more, seems more meant to confuse.

I don't think any continued conversation is worthy, and won't be posting anymore comments. This is just the typical usual message board dance along the edges decrying the messenger while proving nothing.

It is kind of sad, you didn't figure out the Augustine thing after a long time reading this blog. But Hey I know many have been deceived by the academics and theologians who pay homage to the early deceivers. What many forget is they think EARLY means RIGHT, and listen more to false church history then what the Bible warns of.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

As for this blog, if you feel the need to move on, and do not agree with it's premises there are plenty of blogs and websites and mainstream Reformed/Presbysterian churches who will support your outlook.

I often find it funny when people quibble over "evidence", I've had it done even with videos, screenshots and other cites online elsewhere. People often "see" what they want to.