Tuesday, January 17, 2012

From News4theMasses: "Jesuits Beget Jesuits: Norman Geisler, Veritas & Calvary Chapel Bible College

"Jesuits Beget Jesuits: Norman Geisler Veritas & Calvary Chapel Bible College"

One has to wonder why so many evangelical preachers and teachers out there, are Jesuit trained? Why do so many hold to Catholic philosophers? One thing to remember as you read News4theMasses article, Norman Geisler as I talked here in my article "Ecumenical Teachers at Calvary Chapel Bible College?" is a man that considers himself a Thomist.

From an evangelical website that promotes Thomism:

What is Thomism?
Thomism is the teachings that follow the theology and philosophy of Thomas Aquinas (d.1274). Aquinas left a massive amount of writings, dealing with much of the same issues that people wrestle with in modern times. His most well-known work is the Summa Theologica, a huge work that deals not only with theology, but also lays a foundation for philosophy, psychology, and government. He deals with each topic by answering almost every conceivable question, dividing each problem into many sub parts, each of which proposes all the objections imaginable, then answering each objection. Therefore Thomas Aquinas’ work is both a statement of theology and a defense against critics.

Norm Geisler is mentioned here too:
Authors who are influenced by Thomism include Norman Geisler, Thomas Howe, Joseph Owen, Jacques Maratain, George Klubertanz, Etienne Gilson, R. P. Phillips, and many others. Sources of how Thomism can be applied to evangelical theology and philosophy are:
Norman Geisler, who published a four-volume Systematic Theology, and a book called Thomas Aquinas: An Evangelical Appraisal.
Etienne Gilson, Being and Some Philosophers.
Henry Babcock Veatch, Two Logics: The Conflict Between Classical and Neo-Analytic Philosophy.

For the beginner interested in Aquinas and for those who have little exposure to classical philosophy, I’d suggest starting with Geisler’s book Thomas Aquinas

Now let me remind people Thomas Aquinas was a Roman Catholic who supported the Inquisition

Here is what he wrote about HERETICS in the Catholic church and what should be done with them.

"Aquin.: SMT SS Q[11] A[3] Body Para. 1/2

I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death.

And here Norman Gesiler wrote a book praising this man and his vain philosophies.

Will Norman Geisler be praising the virtues of Thomas Aquinas at Veritas Calvary Chapel conferences and classes this year?

Don't forget what Norman Geisler said, when the last Pope was elected:

Relativism, pluralism and naturalism are the three main foes of evangelicalism today and they're the main foes of conservative Roman Catholics," said Norman Geisler, president of Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, N.C., and co-author of Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences.
"We rejoice in the choice because he's going to hold the line and he's not going to allow the liberal element in the Catholic Church to reverse any of those things."


stilo said...

hey Bible Believer, why can't you tell us ANYTHING about yourself, eh? Afraid of being discerned?

Bible Believer said...

This isn't a blog on "biblebeliever", its a blog to share information. Actually we'd all be better off if Christianity had not turned into a celeb fest in general. Anyhow go ahead DISCERN away, disagree even. Test everything that is written and shared here. Check on the research. Is Thomas Aquinas one of Geisler's favorite philosophers? I am not here to control what others do. I will pray they are led by God, but their discernment is between them and God.

stilo said...

so you are pro-Covenant Theology? What do you say about Dispensationalism and scholars like A.G. Fruchtenbaum?

Bible Believer said...

I am NOT pro-Covenant Theology. I have written against it HERE: [well this is really fruits of it]


I am also not pre-Trib and do not support A.G. Fruchtenbaum due to his associations with Lausanne.

Kayfabe said...

Is Norman Geisler the guy who used to be a "protestant" but then turned "Catholic"?

Bible Believer said...

No Norman Geisler still advances himself as an "evangelical". [well he might as well be a Catholic]

Frank Beckwith is one that converted and also read online that one of Geisler's co-authors converted to Catholicism as well.


Labby said...

Very chilling to read someone calling for the deaths of those that might threaten the faith (Catholic faith)! I'd like to know where they can find the scripture that would in any way show that Jesus ever called for the deaths of those that didn't believe. In contrast, Jesus had many that didn't believe, and he left them alone to decide for themselves. He never called for their deaths. Sounds more like the religion of Islam. Hmmmmm, wonder why there are those similarities? Must come from the author of both of those religions.

Bible Believer said...

Yes it is scary.

Remember being an Ex-Catholic, I myself by their canon laws which include "just penalties for heretics" am a HERETIC by their definition.

This was reality for centuries, and the Protestants who now go bowing before Rome, ignore the lessons of history.

It is the wicked who want to "call down fire" on othres. Yes Satan as the author of both religions [Catholicism and Islam] demands death for those who do not obey.

To be honest, thinking of the Duggars, I can't believe Jim Bob never had access to a Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

Labby said...

WE HAVE FORGOTTEN THE MARTYRS. WE HAVE FORGOTTEN WHAT WE ARE PROTESTING AGAINST, as Protestants. We have forgotten those men and women who did not submit and who held to their beliefs even when threatened with death and torture. Even those reformers who had their own wives begging them to just "give in" so that they could again lead normal lives and be with their children and families - they stayed strong. That's being put in a difficult position. They would be so ashamed and alarmed at how we in this modern age have forgotten all of that and are quick to find similarities and how we can all get along. It's the cult of agreeableness. All of these musicians and world leaders will be calling for us to come together (Bono, MJ) We feel we should be tolerant and non-judgemental and just go along because we have forgotten or we are naive about the true motives of Rome. We have forgotten the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yes, Foxe's Book of Martyrs is something we should really all get out and read again or for the first time. Here's a link for those unfamiliar.

Bible Believer said...

I own a copy of Foxe's Book of Martyrs and read it during my first year as a saved Christian. I even at that time, and I know this sounds crazy went online and read the stories of martyrs from Fordham university...[Jesuits] to get the "other side" and well, let me just say, it didn't look good from there either. I wanted to see what the Catholic excuse for all this was.
Remember one medieval document {google "Medieval Sourcebook", if you want to go take a look at what I did} where it spoke of not only the lost lives but the seized property--farms, food, land, etc, and it wasn't just the "heretics" loss but the entire families.

I still remember the day, I saw on EWTN online...EXCUSES and PRAISE for the INQUISITION. This was taken down from controversy, but another website took a screenshot:

"From the perspective of an obstinate heretic who was taken to the scaffold to be executed but who recanted before dying, the Inquisition may have ultimately been a good thing, assuming, of course, that the person went to Heaven who would have otherwise gone to Hell, except for the grace of the Inquisition. Of course, only God knows for sure."


I saw this with my own eyes on EWTN, so know Remnant of God didn't photoshop it or anything,

and saw the SAME SENTIMENTS repeated on Catholic boards, blogs and more.

Bible Believer said...

I also have participated on Catholic Forums, one had seminary students on it, where they praised and defended the Inquisition, I am not kidding. That is reality folks.

In Catholic school I was taught how holy men were like St. Thomas More and St. Thomas Aquinas, but they supported people being put to death for what they believed. [aka "Protestants", and others.

You are right Labby the martyrs have been forgotten. People do not realize how bad the Inquisitions were. By the way I have researched those too. I just haven't posted on them *YET*. Some topics are hard even for me to stomach even to write on here, and the devices of torture and what was done to people are beyond horrendous. I believe there will be new inquisitions. I may post on something related to that and warning in the Bible.

Here is one thing many people do not know about the Inquisitions...

People weren't picked up for being heretics, for missing a few Sunday morning Masses.

They would force them to kneel before the wafer, and they were told to worship it as "god". When the Christians refused they were hauled away to be tortured and put to death.

"...He describes how his very life depended on whether or not he would acknowledge the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation: or the True Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. 'During which time of our imprisonment...we were often called before the Inquisitor alone; and there severely examined of our faith...Then did they proceed to demand of us, upon our oaths, 'What we did believe of the sacraments and...Whether there did remain any bread or wine, after the words of consecration, Yea or No...and whether we did not believe that the host of bread which the priest did hold up over his head, and the wine that was in the chalice, was the very true and perfect body and blood of our Savior Christ, Yea or No?' To which, if we answered not 'Yea!' then there was no way but death" (Graven Bread, Timothy Kauffman, 56-57)."

People lost their lives and even refused to give in knowing the rest of their families including children would have their lives destroyed or taken. You are right about that. Maybe I should do a few blog entries on these topics. People have been indoctrinated to be watered down about Rome. I have seen it in fundamentalist churches. I even had a couple pastors [not the decent fundie one] tell me to cool it usually in the context of me talking about being an ex-Catholic and being saved out of that church.

Some may admit, yes the RCC has too much power in American politics--they accept even the blog entries about where we warn about Knights of Maltas hanging out with evangelicals, but if you write that Rome is Satan's, it does offend people, so many have been trained to see the RCC as this nice kind church where while they may have a "little theology" wrong are underneath it all "kind" and "good". Nope, the people in the pews mean well, but the RCC is the harlot leading millions to hell, there is no way to sugarcoat this.

Yes the modern age has swept all of this under the carpet, all the history, and lost lives.

The biblical term is "drunken with the blood of the saints"....

That's pretty intense, and the deceived and/or false preachers tell people "The RCC is another Christian church".

It is not.

Anonymous said...

What ever happened to you doing some articles on the inquisition and how some catholics even today support it?

Bible Believer said...

I have so many subjects I want to cover but guess that one slipped by me.

I'll consider doing it soon, have some links I want to show.

Stephen said...

I know, it's not always to good to think out loud but a question arose just yesterday..what is Pope Francis 'befriending' the Muslim Faith? Befriending people is one thing, but a 'man made faith system' is another. See video (if you like) on youtube titled
"Pope Francis shows his true colors". Is it a form of 'apology'? (and he has Jesuit roots which from my studies has yet to prove to be a good thing)