Tuesday, December 6, 2011

More From News4themasses: Chuck Smith Sr. Says Catholics Are Christians Too!

I know I just posted from the news4themasses blog, but this needs posted right away too. This proves all the ecumenical ties and rest, in Calvary Chapel. What is sad is that Calvary Chapel is full of ex-Catholics who think they have entered an evangelical church that renounces Roman Catholicism, how wrong they are!

http://www.kwve.com/podcasts/Pastor%27s%20Perspective%2011_10_11.m4a (Start at 48:10 mark; also see the transcript below.)

Don Stewart: Alright back we go to the phones to Orange, California with Ben on the line. Ben welcome to Pastors Perspective, Hi!

Ben: Hi how are you?

Don Stewart: Fine thank you!

Ben: I uh, I am a loyal listener, I um love going to uh your men’s conferences [Don Stewart: “Good!”] and I fellowship with a bunch of people at Calvary Chapel’s, um I visit Greg Laurie’s Harvest, and I have a question because I sometimes I have a hard time understanding um how I um, communicate with people um of the Protestant faith because I am Catholic, and sometimes we um have communication issues and, they want to get into apologetics and um, you know I love the worship and the fellowship with those – with the different people but um I’m going to hang onto my faith as well, and I am just curious what you think about it.

Don Stewart: OK, good question there Ben in fact were glad your going to these events we’re glad you listen to this program. OK Chuck what about that?

Chuck Smith: Ben I have a cousin who was a mother superior in the Catholic Church, and uh, she was just a wonderful Christian, loved her and we had great conversations together, and I didn’t try to convert her from Catholicism nor did she try to convert me uh into becoming a Catholic, its just we both recognize that uh you know we have, we had the same Lord, and the same uh faith ya know and so uh we just uh you know on those things we agreed upon we just agreed upon and we didn’t really bring up the things where there were disagreements.

Not included in the video:

Don Stewart [Minute 49:42]: Ya um again the question is Ben if you love the Lord Jesus, if you’re trusting Him and Him alone for your salvation that’s the key, what are you trusting in, what’s going to get you to heaven is it Jesus and something else or Jesus and Jesus alone and that’s the question that needs to be answered, and of course the Bible said its Jesus alone by grace through faith we’re saved, it’s not of ourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast, cause Chuck it wouldn’t be heaven would it if people were walking around bragging what they’ve done…and uh no peacocks strutin’ around, na na it’d be real miserable we’re not going to see that in heaven. Alright let’s go now to Aurora, Colorado and talk to Jay on Pastors Perspective, Jay welcome to welcome to the program [Minute 50:20].
and on a different call that news4themasses has linked to Chuck Smith Sr, comes up with this:

(Beverly) Caller- Yes I have a question is it right for a Catholic woman to marry a Christian man even if she’s pregnant with his child?

Chuck Smith Sr.- Well, I don’t ah see that, ah, well ah there’s going to be difficulty, uh ya know, but if you can resolve the differences, I don’t think they’re that great, and I think that you probably, ah if you’re pregnant with his child you should marry him, and of course ah I think that uh, it’s um it’s alright you can resolve the differences. and I think that uh I , ah, I know of many of that ya know.. You know Catholics are basically Christians too and uh so uh I think that uh, you know what the differences are less than much less than what a lot of people face and are overcoming in their mariages.

Please read the rest of what news4themasses has to share on her blog about this, more audio links, and more details.

Maybe given what has been exposed about Calvary Chapel, they are not even going to pretend anymore, they will now be out and blatant about their ecumenical ties to Rome and their view of the Catholic church as another "Christian church". Basically my theory about Calvary Chapel being a set-up from the start rings true.

If you are in Calvary Chapel and reading this, try telling your pastor that the Catholic church is the harlot warned of in Revelation, and see what reaction you will get. I promise you it will be very interesting. I still remember the offended look to this day. Read the blog entries warning about the one world religion and know you must "come out of her". That includes all false churches. And NO, Catholics are not Christians too. A few in there may be searching for truth, or just about to leave but that's it. I left the Catholic church within days after I was born again. The Holy Spirit will expose what the RCC really is to any born again believer, it teaches a false gospel and presents 'another christ"-The Eucharist-idol. One thing too, where are all these dissenting Calvary Chapel preachers that Lighthouse Trails keeps mentioning? Those have got to be some of the most quiet guys out there in the world, because I sure haven't heard a peep from any of them.


Anonymous said...

Thanks for this post. So Chuck left his NUN cousin separated from salvation in Christ. Then what else can one think than he is too? Really sad and obviously the root of all the spiritual compromise and confusion of the Calvary Chapel movement.

Anonymous said...

I didn't see Calvary Chapel'ers mentioned in the Lighthouse Trails article you linked to here. Was I supposed to? If you have links to LT articles that state many CC'ers are voicing concerns about apostasy issues, I would be interested in them. Thanks.

Bible Believer said...

I fixed the link, it was this article.


Sorry about that...I had general blog page linked but not specific article.

Here is what was written:

"However, as time went on, some of Calvary Chapel’s key leaders decided they wanted to embrace the Purpose Driven movement as well as contemplative/emerging spirituality. It seemed, almost like overnight, that Lighthouse Trails and Understand the Times went from being seen as a blessing to being seen as an enemy to Calvary Chapel. Before we knew it, our two ministries were being marginalized. Some colleagues even told Understand the Times and Lighthouse Trails to stop talking about Calvary Chapel altogether (when that didn’t happen, they distanced themselves from us). Rumors, sometimes even begun by disgruntled pastors, spread like wildfire.6

Yet, even to this day, after all that has occurred, it is our hope and desire that Calvary Chapel will rescue itself, although as a whole, a steady decline continues. We do wonder what ever happened to the pastors who at one time stood with us. Why are they silent? One of those pastors, from one of the larger Calvary Chapel churches, called us after we put out an article talking about Roger being kicked off Calvary Chapel radio (KWVE). The pastor was very upset, stating, “Our church bought over a hundred copies of Faith Undone from you! How could you write articles like this about Calvary Chapel!” The insinuation was that their buying books from us should keep us from writing about Calvary Chapel. It became evident in time to this pastor and others that losing a book customer, even a big one, would not alter our reporting. Not too long after that, we received notice that Calvary Chapel distribution had removed all Lighthouse Trails books from their distribution center (this is also talked about in Let There Be Light).

The fact remains, it has never been our intent or motive to destroy Calvary Chapel. If this happens, it will be because they did it to themselves. In the meantime, it is our hope that at least some of these pastors will take a stand.

Please keep in mind that we have never said that all Calvary Chapel pastors are heading for apostasy. On the contrary, there are a number of them who have resisted the coming tide. But now, it seems like even many of them have grown silent. If you are one of these pastors, we hope and pray you will steer the ship God has entrusted to you before you strike a bar. The Calvary Chapel vessel has been going through some treacherous waters for some time, but it seems that many now have pulled up anchor and are allowing their ships to be driven to and fro by the wind hoping they will reach the right destination by some mere chance."

There hope and desire for Calvary Chapel to rescue itself seems odd, given the apostate root from the start, and I still want to know where all these dissenting Calvary Chapel pastors are, because I sure do not see any or hear any speaking out. Who are the Calvary Chapel pastors that Lighthouse Trails sees as "resisting the tide"? All very strange.

Bible Believer said...

Other Anon, Chuck's blase attitude towards his cousin caught up in the nunnery...was not good. He should be trying to witness to her and warn her. This is the best that a well-known bible teacher and preacher can do? His seeing Catholicism as "Christian" too denotes no discernment, but that is if we looked away from what sees to be the more and more blatant wolf status, in other words he knows what he is doing. I used to speak at the Calvary Chapel I visited at for a short time, believing back then they were *different*, about leaving the Catholic church and being saved from it's false gospel and praising God for that. There were a few in the pews who AGREED with me but what is sad, is the pastors in Calvary Chapel are full blown ecumenists. Those who are in Calvary Chapel need to wake up about where their leaders are taking them and get out of there! They are joined with Rome in so many different ways that have now been exposed. One thing I want to remind people it's happening in just about all of them, assembly of God, SBC. The Organized church system is falling away and going down Rome's roads laid out for it.

If Lighthouse Trails sees this article, tell us the names of the dissenters. I don't believe they even exist at this point but hey I could be wrong. All I have seen on Calvary Chapel websites is the usual lukewarm objections to the "Emergent movement".

Calvary Chapel as News4themasses is EMERGENT ITSELF and actually was a core point to the start of the Emergent movement via the Jesus Movement of the late 60s and 1970s.

Anonymous said...

Lt said that those who claimed to them to be resisting the tide are silent now. However "pulling up anchor allowing their ships to be driven to and fro"...and "getting to the right destination by some chance", is an oxymoron. Could that have been said tongue in cheek?...though it is not clear.

There is nothing redeemable about an organization that had a corrupt foundation to begin with, as Calvary Chapel did. If LT is llegit, needs to recognize and address that. I don't doubt CC has produced true believers, but the Lord's true sheep, however many or few are left now, need to separate themselves from it and its spiritual dangers.

I'm glad CC is being exposed by others now for what it has always been... a very deceptive wolf in sheep's clothing imo.

Remember Chuck's son said that Chuck SR was excited after Frisbee began putting CC on the map thinking they had started THE NEW church. That gives me the creeps.

Bible Believer said...

I used to have LT in my links but removed it, too much wasn't adding up for me. Some links I have up for information, aka I don't agree with everything that is on the Vigilante Citizen website, but that is to warn of NWO symbols etc, but when I see a website, just not make any sense, well you can see why I would take it down.

All the talk about those dissenting preachers and they hope Calvary Chapel redeems itself, just sounds like damage control to my ears. There was one Calvary Chapelist who drank the Kool-Aid, who even yelled at me, in 2008 or so that Chuck Smith was going senile to excuse things, and well its 4 years later and though he pauses a lot in his speech with "uhs", he is still definitely lucid and its nearly 2012, she told me there were all sorts of Calvary Chapel pastors going against the tide, and I said "WHERE ARE THEY?" and I haven't even heard one name yet. I have been to many of the CC church websites and seen nothing so far. So why is LT claiming the same thing, and there hasn't been one rogue CC pastor willing to even post on their website. We have Roger Oakland who says he "left" but still as far as I know is planning to do bible seminars with the likes of Missler, but haven't seen any other names out there whatsoever. If LT is legit, you are right, they need to recognize that otherwise they are defending a corrupt institution whose roots started in apostasy to begin with. I am sure there are some true believers who just do not know better caught up in it all, but I think God will be warning even more, and is letting things be known, so they will "come out of her" just like the Roman Catholic church. How can LT go along with RO even talking about the Emergent and Roman roots, and ignore the start of Calvary Chapel? I do not buy the claims about the preachers who are standing against Rome, or ecumenism in Calvary Chapel. Show me one.

Yeah that was creepy to me too, where they stated they had started the NEW church. The influences of Calvary Chapel go far beyond their own organization but into many parachurch organizations and other denominations.

Bible Believer said...

I was going to add this too. I removed the side link to the Fanatic for Jesus blog, even though I still consider it a good source of information, because the author of that blog, supports Quiverful [well with reservations] and the Patriarchy movement.

Anonymous said...

I agee BB - they are getting more blatant now that there is such horrendous apostasy evrywhere..

I too feel so sorry for the ex catholics in CC's who think they escaped the Catholic Church's falsity and grip on them.

Anonymous said...

If Chuck thinks that the catholic teaching on salvation is the true Gospel, then what kind of a Bible teacher does that make him?

Anonymous said...

Chuck Smith tells a mormon that they could possibly go to heaven: http://anothervoicerev184.blogspot.com/2011/11/calvary-chapels-chuck-smith-bows-to.html

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for sharing that link too. Wow from this month too! I guess Chuck Smith is not holding back. What next a photo-op with the Pope?

"36:10 Don Stewart: To Cheyenne Wyoming...we have Alexa on the line....

10 yr. old Alexa: My aunt Valerie(?) doesn't really know the book of Mormon...so will she still go to hell?

Don Stewart: Ok good question...Alexa's got an aunt, Chuck, who is a mormon and wants to know if the mormon will go to heaven...

Chuck Smith: It all depends on their relationship with Jesus Christ...and there are a lot of good Mormons who do believe in Jesus and I believe they will be in heaven, but you know we can't do it on own righteousness or own works you know we have to depend on Jesus for our entrance into heaven...[end]

Mormonism is something I have wanted to address for some time on the blog, so many subjects to cover, not enough time, but Mormonism teaches definitely another christ where they teach that their "jesus" is the brother to Satan. They also teach the lie in the garden that men shall be as god [actually "gods" of their own planet]

He hedges here with saying people should not depend on their own works, but Mormons following the "mormon jesus" are not following Jesus Christ.

Bible Believer said...

Anon I feel really sorry for those ex-Catholics who left Rome, and thinking they left the harlot behind, really only made a lateral move in terms of the church they go to. Hopefully the ones who are truly born again and wish to obey God, will listen to the warnings about Calvary Chapel and get out of there. This of course applies to the falling away church system as a whole.

Kayfabe said...

I feel the same way as you do regarding Light House Trails as they seem to stress the desire for Calvary to reform rather than come out of her. Don't these guys get it? Calvary as an organization has no desire to reform and is only getting worse. I left the organized church behind and I see no reason to stay and try to be a change agent from within. I think its also strange that the Ephesians 5:11 blog appeared and posted some articles about Calvary and then just all of a sudden dissapeared. I wonder what the agenda was with that.

Bible Believer said...

I agree. I mean why do they expect them to truly reform if the roots were so bad? And why how could any "reform" be believable, after all the double-talk we have seen? It reminds me of the people who tell those in the Catholic church about to leave, the lie that things can be changed and to stay. What nonsense, when the leadership is wolves. I agree about leaving the organized church behind. Even many of the fundamentalist ones now seem to be going to many odd places-Dominionism, patriarchy, etc. Some of the higher ups in the fundamentalist baptist system definitely have the NWO politics going strong. The majority of churches now are joined with the world system.

Does God tell us to "change" a rotten church system or "come out of her"? The wolves would just smile and nod and promise to "do better" while going to their backroom meetings to continue their dirty work.

Sincere people trying to change Calvary Chapel are fighting a losing battle when the ones in charge are not sincere. They are trying to make something work with those who are NOT SINCERE.

I found the removal of both Real Time Ministries and the orginal Ephesians 5:11 blog odd as well. I did get a new address for the Ephesians 5:11 blog. I will post it here, for people to look at, but this is NOT an endorsement though some very intense things are exposed at this website. [The Galatic Round Table-William Welty-Vatican stuff] We have to be careful to trust even all those who expose. [see this blog entry: http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-any-calvary-chapel-pastors-or.html]

So tread with caution.


Bible Believer said...

correction above, "we have to be careful in trusting even all those who expose"

Kayfabe said...

Thanks for the new blog address, I didn't think to check it out.

Anonymous said...

Interesting in the past 30 days these comments are coming out.We know there are CC pastors like Jack Hibbs who are huge Glenn Beck Supporters (remember Hibbs did a lot of work for Prop8 in CA so did Catholic and Mormon Church to keep marriage between man and woman), and CC pastors who are linked into Boykin (Jesuit of Rome/Pope) and we consequentially have a Mormon and a Catholic presidential candidates (Romney and Newt). CC has been ecumenical for some time but now the gloves are off. They'll come our more and more as interfaith brethren than say anything opposing to these Flagrant false churches. It's high time for those in CC who FEAR the Lord over 'men' to come out from among them. Stop making excuses for the false idols aka CC Pastors who are compromising the gospel.

Anonymous said...

Hey Guys, Let's build up the body of Christ. Not tear it down. The requirements for heaven are simple. Love God and Love Christ. Then Know Christ and Know God. If we truly believe then we will began to obey all of what God wants. The greatest commandment is that we love (agape) God with all our heart,soul, strength, and mind. The 2nd is that we love our fellow man as we love ourselves. We must pray for our eyes to be opened if we can not understand the reasons behind these commandments. The blog does no good thing pointing out someones flaws, especially according to our beliefs. Remember the truth of the bible "Our heart is deceitful above all things". We need Jesus and his heart. I need Jesus. He can fix us and our countries problems if we would only let him.

Anonymous said...

Because I read one thing stuck out.
Being "C"atholic is not the same as being "c"atholic. Capital C refers to the specific Catholic denomination, but without a capital it means of the body of christ. That's us Christians. I'm an Evangelical. So technically Christian is the same exact meaning as "c"atholic.

Bible Believer said...

I reject the use of the word "Catholic" big C or little C, you do realize the meaning is "universal" and even the acceptance of the word {little c} just means advancement of Catholicism, in that they want all churches joined together in the one world church, including the evangelicals.

Bible Believer said...

non, One better be loving Jesus Christ of the Bible not the false 'christ' of Catholicism which is the same one that is running the one world church show. I am sorry you do not discern that Catholicism has nothing to do with Christianity and teaches a false gospel. When Catholics kneel before their bread wafer or say "amen" to "body of christ?" as they get their communion they are worshipping another christ that has nothing to do with the true Jesus Christ. As for "fixing" this world, do not be deceived by the Dominionists who sell a tower of babel "problems of this world" fixer, Jesus Christ supercedes all that, He is not some revolutionary social justice activist that some are selling him as. Love is telling people the truth.

Anonymous said...

Grabbing definitions of words to make an argument can be quite precarious for the truth... if TRUTH is your goal.
Atheist. The A-Theist will tell you they are simply WITHOUT GOD per the definition of A-Theist.
The truth of it is that most Atheists are ANTIGODDERS.
A-Theist more correctly describes what we call Agnostics.
Agnostics simply don't know/don't care if there is a God.
Most certainly does NOT describe an Atheist.

So catholic might MEAN Christian but me thinks it is simply a way to get folks use to calling themselves catholic enroute to becoming Catholic.
This is the Diaprax in action.
This is actually a form of mind control.
A similar form of this is the incessant use of the crescent or swoosh symbol........ ALL OVER THE PLACE NOW!

The Crescent is the symbol for the Moon God/Goddess and the similar Swoosh may be connected to rings around Saturn.... Saturnalia worship.
WHY are these symbols incorporated in EVERYTHING now?
Wake up folks.... change agency is everywhere.... and know that Diaprax is one of the Catholic tools to win over Anon's catholics.

Anonymous said...

"The requirements for heaven are simple. Love God and Love Christ."

No, the Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches that believing in Christ and His finished completed work for our sins, is the requirement for heaven. Nobody can love enough to be saved by loving itself. The person that made the statement that I quoted, is likely a catholic.