Friday, December 16, 2011

Francis Chan's Crazy Love: The Same Messages As David Platt







Francis Chan is a newer preacher out on the scene and growing in popularity, I have seen this book being sold in a Christian bookstore and all over. One thing Francis Chan endorses David Platt:




Remember I posted on David Platt here: "David Platt's Book: "Radical": Programming the Evangelical Churches for Globalism"

Well the other day, I read this book from the library and figure I would post on it here. Some aspects of the book, seem to ring true, who doesn't want to be close to God or seek after His Love or help others? He writes about loving his family and good positive things about God.  I found myself even drawn in a bit, as he focused on those who "wanted more Jesus" and spoke of "surrendering yourself to God's purposes", but then I realized the book was going the same exact direction of David Platt's book except perhaps in a more subtle manner.

Chan speaks  says in his preface..
"It's exhilarating to be part of a group of believers who are willing to think biblically rather then conventionally, to be part of a body where radical living is the norm."
As I have stated when I see the word "radical" it worries me a bit. What is radical living? They never really define the term.

I read this paragraph then:

"God put me in Simi Valley California to lead a church of comfortable people into lives of risk and adventure. I believe he wants us to love others so much that we go to extremes to help them. I believe He wants us to be known for giving-of our time, our money and our abilities- and to start a movement of "giving" churches. In so doing, we can alleviate the suffering in the world and change the reputation of his bride in America."
I find myself thinking aren't there enough churches pandering to the more wealthy who want to to carry out the globalist visions instead of helping their neighbors right around them?. Why is his church only for comfortable people? Why aren't there some poor people right in his church or "uncomfortable" folks? Then we have what is basically a summation of the social justice gospel. When one gives, they are not to advertise it to the world seeking to better their own reputation, where does it say in the Bible to do that? I believe the Lord does call us to give to people, money, time, and help to people but it is not supposed to be done being known so the line "I believe He wants us to be known" is wrong..

actually NO, He does not want you to be known......

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

I see churches here in my community who make a huge show of doing charitable works, a couple even go out way out there and even get the newspaper to report on it with pictures included. To me it is the oddest thing, why the publicity considering what the Bible says? One thing too remember we are having through all the faith based stuff, churches and government grow even more intertwined. It actually in some places will be hard to even get charity, without it being connected to a false church. Many poor will have no other places to go.

Read the faith based link in the paragraph above, and do you notice something?
 "Groups are reminded they must keep their religious activities entirely separate in time and location, from the services provided with federal funds"
I would take that to mean they plan on making it though you cannot witness to those you help. Yes that is happening.

The social justice stuff, is leading churches to some really weird places. Chan advances the "change the world" social justice stuff the same as Platt. There is still the same condemnation towards Americans and the pressure to go give to the third world not for true missions, or help that way, but to service the wealth distribution mantra of the United Nations and carry out the agenda of the Lausanne influenced World Christian Movement.

It is always ironic to me watching out of touch wealthy pastors, who do not even admit that America is in it's own depression. He writes:

"I think most American churchgoers are the the soil that chokes the seed because of all the thorns"[p.67]
"Lukewarm people are thankful for their luxuries and comforts and rarely consider trying to give as much to the poor. [snip] Untold number of lukewarm pepople feel "called" to minister to the rich, very few feel "called" to minister to the poor." [p.75]
He goes down the list of what he considers to be lukewarm people. It seems to match a lot of Platt's, one line even seems to make one think that being healthy and having a full refrigerator is a sin.


Now do not get me wrong, I believe Christians are NOT to be materialistic, and should help the poor.But understand why people are feeding these lines, they want to guilt the mostly middle-class and beyond classes in America into giving all their wealth away overseas, to not even know about what is happening in their own country and even advance poverty as "being more holy". 

The social justice gospel, and false teachings like this have helped the American church sell it's own people down the road and while our economy collapses, we got guys writing stuff like this.  Reading this stuff is always weird to me, as I know plenty now having a hard time keeping groceries on the table. God always will provide needs of the believer, how come they never talk about that? How come the stress is always on the DOING and NOT THE BELIEVING? 

To be frank, take your average corrupt third world nation, with it's people following the law of the jungle mentality, and I've seen this apply in dangerous inner city areas in America before, their belief in the gospel and being regenerated VIA the Holy Spirit is the only thing that is going to change anything, and the "get yours or else mentality". They will then be transformed into being Christians who help and share with one another, helping to END the CORRUPTION of daily life, poverty and greed. This isn't going to happen via government programs or even if giant bags of money right now were flown over every poor country and emptied out.

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.


Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.


Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;


Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

That said, Jesus also told us the poor would always be with us.

So this is more guilt at the behest of the "end poverty now" UN campaigns rather then preaching the gospel and realizing how people would be changed in helping not only themselves but fellow Christians around them.

Chan writes;

"They don't depend on God on a daily basis--their refrigerators are full, and for the most part they are in good health. The truth is, their lives wouldn't look much different if they suddenly stopped believing in God"

Well I hate to tell Chan, but not everyone in America's refrigerator is full. I have posted many times on this blog, articles and links that speak of the economic collapse in America and the now one in every 7 person's on food stamps in our own country. Even the food banks have reported severe shortages.

Shocking Charts And Statistics That Prove That America Is No Longer A Wealthy Nation

Tens Of Millions Of American Families Are Living On The Edge Of Desperation - And The Economy Is About To Get A Whole Lot Worse

Right now I am praying for two friends on the cusp of homelessness. One homeless friend her family got her an apartment and another couple are house-sitting to stay off the streets. God has provided for those people I have prayed for in other ways. Chan does not represent my world.

We get the whole United Nations spiel, out of touch, 'Americans are too rich' spiel just like David Platt from Francis Chan, on page 89


"If one hundred people represented the world's population, fifty three of those would live on less then $2 dollars a day. Do you realize that if you make $4,000 a month, you automatically make one hundred times more then the average person on this planet? Simply by purchasing this book you spent what a majority of people in the world will make in a week's time. 
What is more messed up--that we have so much compared to everyone else, or that we don't think we're rich; that on any given day we might flippantly call ourselves "broke" or "poor"? We are neither of those things. We are rich. Filthy Rich."
Do you feel guilty yet about this matter? Sorry I do not.  You wonder if any poor people may get a copy of this book, who are unemployed or down or out and will say, "hey my husband can't afford a needed surgery and they just denied me unemployment but thanks Francis Chan for saying I am "filthy rich"?. What universe is this guy living in?

One thing a lot of the rest of the world is not based on a consumerist economy where they have to spend money to acquire everything. Many still grow their own food, and know, how to hunt, fish and forage, but we will not hear those facts. We will be told that Americans because of their well now "past" wealth are the reason for all the world's problems and the reason why everyone else is poor. Why don't they go write one of these books for China, who has 4 times the number of people and now a larger economy then our own? Anyhow, even there everything is judged by the cash that is involved.

This reminds me of what the UUs [Unitarian-Universalists] told me, the EXACT same spiel. During my UU years is when I faced some of my worse poverty as an adult. I remember those people collecting monies to help revolution in Bali or to keep recycling going and actually quoting UN millennium goals though Francis Chan does not go that far, but ignoring the poverty right within the community that surrounded them.

Is it too far out for me to write that one of my theories is that these false preachers have signed up to help the new world order with the global money clean out of America and to keep the wealthy churches from helping the poor here in our country? The New World Order wants America out of the way, and it's being implemented on many different levels.

The drumbeat goes on through this book, that people are not helping the poor enough [see page 95] and while Francis Chan keeps repeating he supports the gospel of grace, to try ameliorate this, it fails. He assures his reader:


"Perhaps it sounds as though I believe you have to work your way to Jesus. I don't. I fully believe that we are saved by grace through faith..."

He quotes mysticist Heenri Nouwen on page 95 [that is an issue of concern in itself] and then continues:
"Let's begin this book by gazing at God in silence. What I want you to do right now is go online and look at the "Awe Factor" video at www.crazylovebook.com to get a taste of the awe factor of our God. Seriously-go do it".

Ok I'll be honest here, I haven't gone to see this video yet, and am going to go watch it as I write here. But here is my first question before I go do that, how does one GAZE at God in silence? Can someone explain that to me? If memory serves me correctly, the Bible speaks of people being unable to even look at God. Looks like I was right.


Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

well I went to the video...



How does exploring how big the universe is or God's creation the same as "gazing" at God? I felt like I was along on the ride with Carl Sagan who would use the bigness of the universe in his case to deny God and to speak of our "interconnectedness" and to advance the idea of the possibility of  lien civilizations. Maybe as a kid I saw too many episodes of his show.





Now I can understand point to the creation to speak of God's greatness and majesty, but I felt Chan was leading me down a weird road.

He writes on page 26

"When I first saw those images, I had to worship. I didn't want to share to or share it with anyone. I just wanted to sit quietly and admire the Creator."

Ok maybe I am a nit-picker, but want to say to Francis Chan, God's Creation is NOT HIM.

God is even more then some rocks, blazing stars and galaxies which ironically seem aligned almost as smaller forms like the human nervous system denoting His design.








He goes on to write to ask "Why did God create so many galaxies?" And that is something interesting to think about but why all the writing about "gazing at God"?  When I was UU, they told us essentially that "universe" was "God", I heard that one more times then I want to count, one pastor even had us recite a poem where it said "we were stardust".

He does go on to discuss more of God's creation into the next chapter and celebrating it. Yes, God's handiwork does speak of Him but this ending paragraph bothered me too.

"Go read and reread the last two paragraphs. Go to the Website www.crazylovebook.com and watch the "Just Stop and Think" fifteen minute video. Close this book if you need to and meditate on the almighty One who dwells in unapproachable light, the glorious One"
"Glorious One"? I went to go look up if that is a title for God in the Bible, do not think so. Correct me if I am wrong. God is owed all glory, but I remember this too. Narnia uses it which doesn't make me feel better  about it. It's been used in false religions like Buddhism.  Hey God is glorious and the unapproachable light thing is scriptural [1 Tim 6:16] but sometimes you have to wonder. When I read these type of books, I do not only ask how come they never put the two words Jesus Christ together but why I see 'new terms' for God, that were not traditionally used before.

In the book he goes on to talk about things about God and about lukewarm people. His definition of lukewarm people seems to center on people not "doing enough", advancing more of the social gospel stuff. This kind of message actually can lead people away from the Lord in despair, even if he claims grace, how many people out there are just trying to survive themselves and feeling guilt over not being able to do enough for others? I left the whole "earn" your way into heaven stuff in the Catholic church, while we are to obey God as Christians and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, works based stuff leads many away from God.

He writes on page 95,

'The lives of many people who call themselves "Christians" in America lack manifestations of a vital and active faith."

Why do Americans get specially pointed out? American's are not more evil the other people in the world. There are other wealthy countries on the globe and wickedness is something that applies to all humans until they are born again. One thing church apostasy is not just an American phenomenon, it is spreading globe-wide along with the one world church.

"How many of us would really leave our families, our jobs, our education, our connections, our familiar surroundings and our homes if Jesus asked us too?"

I find myself thinking Yes, God may ask many things of people but where is he going with this? More of the demands to go service the third world while America collapses? The Bible also states those who do not support their families [if they have children and a wife] are worse then an infidel. What if someone is needed at home to take care of a mother with Alzheimer's or a disabled spouse?

He goes on to write: [p.97]
"But we need to realize that how we spend our time, what our money goes toward and where we will invest our energy is equivalent to choosing God or rejecting Him."
The book is a song and dance show of this, where he advances the gospel of grace but then tells his reader what a "bad" Christian they are, and how "lukewarm" they are.  He almost seems obsessed with money too, there are other ways to serve the Lord, besides writing a check and mailing it off somewhere. What about praying for others, or serving them, or BEING with them?

The lukewarmness has nothing to do with what the Bible warns about but usually is pertaining to be a failed ambassador for the millennium  goals of the United Nations in the third world.  Like Platt, this guy decries people for being "comfortable".  Hate to tell you, but why these types glamorize poverty it is not fun and games, people sicken and die from lack of medical care even in America, lack of "comfort" destroys many lives, including people's emotional and physical well-beings. Lowering one people will not raise another. Something I wish these proto-world socialists would get.

Why all the focus on leaving home otherwise? I found it actually kind of depressing as he fills page after page with the basica message of "you are not doing enough". Fear and guilt permeate through the pages but then he does odd turn arounds to assure all is not lost.

I found the writing kind of duplicitous, back and forth like a see-saw, it took me a couple weeks to even write this blog entry on and off. I felt called to warn about this book but it was a very difficult read. It is not a heavy tome, and the writing is simple but the back and forth quality stood out.  It was like the faux Christian literary equivalent of nails going across a chalkboard that set your teeth on edge. I'll continue with more examples:

On page 101:
"My fears in writing the previous chapter is that it only evokes in you fear and guilt. Personal experiences has taught me that actions driven by fear and guilt are not an antidote to lukewarm, selfish, comfortable living." 
On page 116
"Christians today like to play it safe. We want to put ourselves in situations where we are safe "even if there is no God." But if we truly desire to please God, we cannot live that way. We have to do things that cost us during our life on earth but will be more then worth it in eternity"

He goes on to tell us about how God wants us to help the poor and to love your neighbor as yourself and these things are TRUE, but the manipulation is so intense. This line offended me bringing Jesus up as starving. This borders on blasphemous as Jesus Christ fed a crowd of 5 thousand with an individual's simple lunch:

"Ask yourself this: If you actually saw Jesus starving, what would you do for Him? [p119]

"The gap is so extreme in our world that we have to lightly passages such as Luke 12:33: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." How else can I walk out of a mud shack and back into my two-thousand square foot house without doing anything? The concept of downsizing so that others might upgrade is biblical, beautiful...and nearly unheard of. We either close the gap or don't take the words of the Bible literally."
You see what I am talking about via the manipulation?

He goes on to write about this guy:


"After hearing this truth preached, a guy at my church donated his house to the church and moved in with his parents. He told me he will have a better house in heaven and that it doesn't really matter where he lives during this lifetime. He is living like he believes."
This one kind of made me laugh, I guess the man living in his parent's basement for free, can show any reluctant parents, this book too. If that man has a family he is not providing for them in the proper way. Also a grown man unless he is ill himself, living with parents should be taking care of them or equally contributing to the household.

Chan then on page 122 promotes a group called "Aspiring to the Median" where people commit to living below the median income [he quotes it as $46,000 in America] and give the rest away. Sorry for my reaction to this, in that many people I personally know make way UNDER $46,000 a year and would consider themselves well-off at that amount especially in this economy. As I write this blog entry, notice the focus on money and WHAT is done with it. One thing ironic about the Aspiring To the Median website, is it quotes Mother Teresa and Augustine in helping the cause.

I am not sure how to convey how patronizing I find these messages or manipulative. Yes I do agree that Christians are to help the poor. Help people in your community, give food away, don't just write a check to some charity who will give it to the mega-bucks administrator, but help those God leads you to! God will tell you when you are to help someone and there will be times you will have to sacrifice or let go of things but this guy is manipulating people for another cause.   Remember I am not saying it is wrong for Christians to help the poor, God may lead you all sorts of ways maybe even to another part of the world, but preachers like Platt and Chan, well they are doing what I wrote about on this blog entry:

Liberation Theology: Exploiting the Poor For Power and The Globalist UN Driven "Church"

The book, is full of a lot of condemnation for those who do not "do" enough. Reading this book will make anyone who doesn't have tens of thousands of dollars to pass out to their choice of a third world nation, guilty and like they are failed "Christian". Chan's advancing a works based gospel while assuring the reader he supports the gospel of grace, really falls flat.  Chan goes on to put down people he labels as those "not obsessed with Jesus" but "obsessed" in general. Chan seems to advance the Catholic thing here too, where one is to live in a dirt hut and pass out every penny to pass the Christian "litmus" test.

On p133, we see the Dominionist, UN: kingdom of this earth, forwarded:

"People who are obsessed with Jesus aren't consumed with their personal safety and comfort above all else. Obsessed people care more about God's kingdom coming to this earth more then than their own lives being shielded from pain and distress."
Did you read that part "Care more about God's kingdom coming to this earth"?

Remember it's the Dominionists and others believing human beings are supposed to do that, building their own Tower of Babel.

On p. 135 He writes:
"People who are obsessed with Jesus live lives that connect them with the poor in some way or another. Obsessed people believe that Jesus talked about money and the poor so often because it was really important to Him [1 John 2;4-6; Matt 16:24-26]"
Actually I am going to go out on a limb here, I believe the poor were important to Jesus, but MONEY? Nope. Money was a tool to be used not abused, not the be all and end all. God's Word warns about money and the love of it and the abuses. We are told in God's Word not to even worry about the clothes we will wear or food we will eat.  I had my times where I've had to trust in God, where nothing seemed to be forthcoming but if you are a believer God will provide your needs.

Now thinking about Platt and Chan's messages here, ponder this verse.

Mat 17:24 ¶ And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [money] came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?


Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?



Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.


Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


Who are these preachers serving? Why do they want strangers to give all their money away to other strangers? Do they want money used to help bring people to the Lord, for true missions or are they helping with the UN money-clean out, tugging on heart strings in a spirit of manipulation? I understand the verse above Jesus has the disciples pay the tax to avoid offense, but it is interesting the line about kings desiring wealth and tribute from strangers.

Why is the "giving" impersonal now, always to "those" tens of thousands of miles away instead of right in the community or among people that others know? Think about that now. Understand what I am saying here. Where does all the money REALLY go? Have any of you wondered why all these guys have to travel 10s of thousands of miles to find someone to help? I can walk out my door, and find a few right there. Ever wonder about that?

I think it's better if you got something to give to be personally INVOLVED with the people you are helping, then you can witness to them as well. You do it because you care and love them for real not for any other "agendas", or to advance certain political ideals or wannabe Tower of Babel United Nations Utopias. It is pride that gets human beings thinking that they are going to solve every one of the world's problems.

Now if the Lord sends you overseas and there will be people He does send, those who are following God will not be  patronizing the poor folks. They will realize often corruption rules in these parts of the world. This corruption impacts everything including the infrastructure, how funds are handed out and resources that are available. Unless you are going to help someone DIRECTLY, a war lord or village chieftain is probably going to get the cash, or the bag of rice. Does that sound cynical? I have talked with a couple missionaries, and well things are very rough out there.

You know I think thinking about the poor and being led to help them is important too. The whole thing is weird where these jet setting preachers who have thousands of dollars to travel to Africa [he mentions his trips too] and then lament over poverty as they go and advance themselves worldwide and the global money transfer and turn around and tell their congregants to sell their house to donate more money.

Page after page follows demanding more action and DOING:, "people who are obsessed with Jesus do not not consider service a burden.." and giving MONEY away to the poor, "many of them are sick and dying in households we would not consider good enough for our household pets", "He is asking you to love as you would want to be loved if it were your child was blind from contaminated water, or love the way you would want to be loved if you were the homeless women sitting outside the cafe', to love as though it were your family living in the shack slapped together from cardboard and scrap metal.", "how much of your money is spent on yourself and how much is directed towards God's kingdom?"

There are truths mixed in this book, which makes the message so tricky, think of eternity, love God and neighbor, be concerned more with character more then comfort, be faithful to God, and this is one reason, the implicit social justice gospel stuff and other deceptions are easier to pass off as legitimate!

In Chapter 9, Chan then provides examples of who actually lives the way, he is promoting in this book. Many of these folks are well-meaning people, they help poor people all through out the world. One guy he mentions is Nathan Barlow who helped people who got the disease of mossy foot, in Ethiopia, his group Mossy Foot Project is a United Nations NGO, by the way. This is a bad disease, and I am glad people are getting help, but what is Chan's message, that to be decent Christians, we all have to form a NGO?

He lists other people along this same line, who left to third world nations and formed Christian charities and NGOs to help with various causes, with the exception of one who helped Navajos in the US, a family that gives away money and food during the holidays, and a homeless man who helps buy food for other homeless people in his Southern California neighborhood. Another opens her door to prostitutes. One lady adopts an African baby who was born to a HIV mother, but thankfully ended up HIV negative and one travels to Uganda to do women conferences. One translates a Bible into a foreign tongue, another example is a 19th century figure who opened orphanages in England.

Now many of these things are fine and good in themselves. Surely even Christians reading my blog here, have helped and shared things with others.  But what we need to pay attention to do is analyze what is Chan's message and then ask what does it have to do with the gospel?

Chan asks "Should you put your house on the market today and downsize? Should you quit your job?" [That is an odd question considering many without a needed job] "Maybe. Or perhaps God wants you to work harder at your job and be His witness there. Does He want you to move to another city or another country? Perhaps He wants you to stay put and open your eyes to the needs of your neighbors..."

"The point is there is another path, an alternative to the individualism, selfishness and materialism of the American Dream [even the so called Christian version.]"

One of the last points he makes is..

"What will people say about your life in heaven? Will people speak of God's work and glory through you? And even more important how will you answer the King when He says, "What did you do with what I gave you?"
I saw this book as more of the same, this one being more subtle presentation of what David Platt wanted to advance. Lot's of works based demands, manipulation for the global agenda, using the compassion of well meaning Christians to divert them. This including even a rather sickening story, of a missionary who allowed all his teeth to be pulled so he would not be taken from the mission field. To me this smacked of the 'save your self by suffering' Catholic ethos. That was actually self abuse in my book and set the man up for worse health in helping the mission. This book was disturbing to me, in the way it used gospel truths, and the things of God, to divert people into a morass of GUILT and false paths. It was no different then the message of Catholicism, work, work, work to prove yourself a worthy "Christian" while selling the same nauseating globalism and patronizing and naive attitude towards the poor or what it means to be poor. 

Trying to complement Rick Warren's P.E.A.C.E plan and Bono's End Poverty Now Campaigns using guilt, and fear on Christians not "doing" enough for God, to me is pretty low. The obsession with money and what is done with it, also spoke for itself. I worry for the Christians, average people who may read this book and just be ordinary people themselves, who may just have enough to feed their own children and go to work and pay the rent and no extra disposable income for third world poverty safaris who will read this book and feel condemned for "not doing enough" and being called "lukewarm" [a term Chan uses over and over]. The constant cheerleading of "go be radical" are empty words.

The focus needs to be on BELIEVING not DOING, and what Jesus Christ did for us. Anything else is filthy rags.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If your preacher is guilting you to go on a 'save the world' campaign, stop and step back and pray....

Like David Platt's, Francis Chan's church, Cornerstone has the "global" focus with the usual global "Christianity" partnerships many connected to Lausanne and other groups. [examples YWAM, The US Center for World Mission] The church website includes a link to a global petition that encompasses many of the organizations and global endeavors. Wake up and realize how so many are being manipulated.

41 comments:

Kayfabe said...

Hello Bible Believer,

My old home church pastor always talked about us being the next great move of God and what will people remember of us in the annals of history. I always thought that was not the purpose of the gospel. I thought it was to win souls so that they would not perish. The reality is many believers will never be mentioned in recorded history as they did not let their left hand know what the right hand did. So many in the "Christian Church" today have delusions of grandeur. In fact, I would submit to you that true believers more often than not will be hated and despised. Mark 13:13, Luke 6:26, 2 Timothy 3:12. Its good to help the poor but they also need to hear the truth. Social activism without preaching the gospel in order let the lost know where they are headed is defeating the purpose of the great comission.

Kayfabe said...

Mark 14:7 for you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good; but me you do not always have. Me and a couple of brothers were at one time over focused on helping the homeless and it was eye opening to see how many of them were closed off to the gospel it was suprising to me and they would even try to take advantage of us. I learned that it is good to do the poor good but we can't put it above preaching truth and we can't elevate it as an idol. Its good to feed someone but that doesn mean they will open up to our Lord.

Bible Believer said...

When I used to visit the local churches here Kayfabe, I used to hear that stuff too, oh there is going to be a great move of God, and Christians are going to take over the world, and it was crazy, because the Bible tells us things are going to become far worse here and that more men will become lovers of themselves, etc.
The Christian triumphalism is so deceiving and they get people to hop so easily on board with that with the attitude we are going to "win" [in this world] we are going to be "in charge" where the Bible warns of the world hating us and martyrship. The delusions of grandeur astound me too and sicken me as well. It's human pride taken to the extreme. I think even the pride in humans thinking all poverty will be ended by human endeavor when evil and sin rule this planet, is insane. You are right true believers will be hated and despeised and that includes the WHOLE WORLD. The poor do need helped but also need the gospel. These World Christian types are only helping the Beast get more control and in the most remote places too.

Anonymous said...

People are falling for Chan right and left. He has an engaging personality and appears quite humble and compassionate. But he is a wolf in sheep skin.

I tried to warn a friend of long-standing after someone from her church gave her the book - (she is a mature believer) about him and she was terribly offended!. In fact, that ended the friendship because I dared to speak against him.

Chan is one of the New "hip" Calvinists, and throw in some emergent as he is close with Dan Kimball. He was tutored by MacArthur and if you will notice, the tone of his book reflects the error of Lordship Salvation.

I also have a problem with the title. God's love is not crazy and that is an insult to a holy God. The term is used in popular culture to refer to romantic love.

This book is wrong on so many levels and no one seems to see it and yours is the first discernment ministry that I have seen address it headon. It goes way beyond the matter of "spreading the wealth" as you have pointed out.

Bible Believer said...

Yes we are to do the poor good as God leads, thanks for sharing that verse. I have been in the trenches myself as one of the poor and also in service to them, so have seen things many average Americans have not. There is naivete' even in what Chan writes, almost a patronizing attitude that all third world nations and cultures will lovingly embrace the 'Christian" [just bring money] message.

While some of those who are down and out have a heart for the gospel, and their brokenness even leads to their salvation, fact of the matter is the poor are not anymore "holy" as a group of human beings then any other, and often times the poverty sets up MORE violence and sin. The temptation to evil and sin, because of survival issues kicks in. There are many places where poverty and glorification of sin and wickedness go together-law of the jungle, "gangster"/"warlord" culture. Even last night I was reading about an overseas culture in National Geographic, where the men compete for women, guns and gold and revenge is part of the cultural mandate. These people need the gospel of course, but you see that taint of 'you evil Americans". Sorry evil is a world-wide commodity. Some of these places in the world, I do believe are under God's judgement, what happens when you worship demons daily in your religion that has the use of witchcraft as part of it's teachings or even POSESSION by evil spirits? Your nation isn't going to prosper and do well.

You are right helping the poor can be idolized. We saw that with Mother Teresa, [I need to do a post about her soon] where she made an idol of the poor she helped while hurting them behind the scenes, raking in millions of dollars they never saw--more well meaning people sending in money, denying them the gospel and modern medicine. This can happen in the evangelical world, the poor starving person on a poster becomes just another way to "collect money". I agree we should help people but it shouldn't be an idol. One should preach the truth and give people the gospel first. That includes preaching to those who are better off too. How come there are never calls for missionaries to wealthier unbelieving Europeans, they need them too? The gospel is for everyone, God is no respecter of persons. With the poor we should love and help them as much as we can, while preaching the gospel to them as well. The poor often are being exploited. They are being exploited now as a nexus to advance globalism. There are many who help the poor too as a point of pride in themselves. Their motives are worldy ones. There are plenty of atheist social workers, who can say I do a lot to help the poor.

You know what is interesting I was reading a travelogue online of a couple people whose overland truck kept getting stuck in the non-existence roads and they said, that particular third world country it was awful. One line I remember reading was "They see us as walking ATM machines" and that they often faced hostility. One had been to that nation 20 years earlier, and said things were not like that before and the people were far friendlier. It just made me pause for a time. What are all these money games and desiring to turn every nation into a consumerist society doing? That is why I find some of Chan's stuff to be very odd. He could have just wrote one line to sum up his book..

"Send money to the third world or you are a bad Christian!"

Bible Believer said...

Thank you Anon, Yeah he does have those more Calvinist traits does he not? In the videos you can see he has a very engaging personality, you are right about that.

I can't stand the title either. There were things I noticed I left out, just trying to quote examples but feared the article getting too long. I guess CRAZY LOVE, is something that sounds "radical" and maybe that is why he used it. You are right that has blasphemy to it too...[like mocking God's love and calling it insane] I've lost friends too over warning them about preachers, I'll pray for you. Thanks for your comments.

news4themasses said...

Crazy love. Haven't read it. No desire. Francis Chan mocked home schoolers once I remember from the stage and it turned me off to hear anymore from him. I did look into the co-author of Crazy Love, Dane Yankoski and her husband who are HUGE social justice people. They're obsessed with that doctrine.

From Harper Collins site:
Mike and Danae Yankoski
Mike and Danae Yankoski live in the Pacific Northwest with their dog, Elliott. Their passions include backpacking, hiking, running, tea, growing veggies, good books, and substantive conversation. Mike is the author of Under the Overpass and Danae is the co-author with Francis Chan of Crazy Love and The Forgotten God.

From Zealous Love site:
Mike and Danae live in Vancouver, B.C. with their dog, Elliott. They are both studying for their Masters of Christian Studies (MCS) degrees at Regent College. Their passions include backpacking, hiking, running, tea, growing veggies, good books, and substantive conversation. Mike serves on the board of directors for World Vision US, and is the author of Under the Overpass. Danae is the co-author with Francis Chan of Crazy Love and The Forgotten God.

the two of them just wrote another book called Zealous Love, forward by Eugene Peterson

http://www.berean.com/products/23985-zealous-love-a-practical-guide-to-social-justice.aspx

Nothing wrong with serving the needy and loving your neighbor as yourself, just don't forsake the Gospel and the God who Created you. The Social Justice Christians who are essentially Christian Socialists are seeking after God's Kingdom now, they are dominionist in their theology and that theology teaches that 'We' "Christians" have to create the perfect atmosphere for Christ's return. This is unbiblical and unsound doctrine. That's my opinion in a nut shell, kind of a big nut too, think a huge walnut...
Peace. PS, did you hear about Warren's "PEACE center going up, $2 mil. for all the down and outs in Lake Forest, CA.

Labby said...

I NEED to know who to trust. My mind is just swimming with everything I'm reading and just when I think I found someone good to respect, I find out something new. Not referring specifically to Chan, because I've been sort of suspecting he's in with that crowd a bit, but WHO? Can you give me two or three whom you have found to be good disciples of Jesus Christ, who speak the correct doctrine and are Biblically correct?

mijadedios said...

Labby,
Peter, Paul, and John are Three good disciples I can think of off the top of my head. That's the thing nowadays, you can't trust in man; that's how false teachers are able to deceive because we have this propensity to look for a "Godly Man" to help us and we forsake the awesome gift of the HOLY SPIRIT to teach and help us. Even if you do find a good teacher, always filter what's taught through the scriptures themselves. May the Lord Bless you and Keep you and His Holy Spirit teach you.

Anonymous said...

Labby, we are living in perilous times as never before with deception around every corner. That is reality, not paranoia.

Frankly, every single teacher I have trusted has fallen by the wayside and caved. I honestly could not recommend anyone. With Bible in hand, you can search the internet and find blogs that still teach the truth, but proceed with caution. Trust and verify; verify and trust only God.

Personally I prefer the "dead guys" I have found to be sound - they are what they are and they aren't perfect, but they are sound and they are immune to deception that is rampant in our day. I prefer Theodore Epp, H.A. Ironside and Clarence Larkin - there are others, but those are the ones with whom I am most familiar and have received a blessing. You won't find them in "Christian" bookstores. You have to search online to find their books.

Hope this helps - we can't get discouraged, we have to press on and trust the Lord. It ain't easy, but it is the only way. Read the prophets of old such as Jeremiah and all their trials. God bless you!

doug said...

one of Chans recommendations, Labby, is that you just read Gods Word for yourself and allow Him to speak to you.

a lot of this other noise will go away.

Bible Believer said...

Hi News4themasses, yeah I found that book very interesting by the co-author thanks for sharing that information.


http://www.berean.com/products/23985-zealous-love-a-practical-guide-to-social-justice.aspx

The book reads like a UN Millennium Goals Handbok

"'I Want to Help. But the World's Problems Seem So Big. What Can One Person Do?'If you're passionate about helping others---but aren't sure where or how to focus your energy---Zealous Love offers information and ideas to help you integrate social justice into your life. The hope woven into every word of Zealous Love is this: God will move and direct you to act on your desire to love your neighbors in need, both globally and locally. Zealous Love introduces you to eight of the world's most pressing challenges: hunger, unclean water, HIV/AIDS, creation degradation, lack of education, economic inequality, refugees, and human trafficking. But it does more than educate. It provides real, practical, do-able steps anyone can take to help make a difference.Each of the engaging chapters features first-person contributions from people like Dave Batstone (Not for Sale), Scott Todd (Compassion International), Sean Litton (International Justice Mission), Debbie Diederich (World Vision), Shane Claiborne (The Simple Way), Wendell Berry, Marva Dawn, and many others. Each contributor saw a need and decided to do something about it. They aren't 'Super Christians.' They're just everyday people, like you, who wanted their faith to be more than just good intentions."

Hmm interesting term Christian socialists, or well they could be called Christian World Socialist {Globalists}

No I haven't heard about Warren's Peace Center, for the down and out, will have to look at that. Thanksnewsforthemasses.

Bible Believer said...

Labby, some time ago, I had people say "well WHO do you trust"? They got mad because I was slow to name names of trusted preachers. They will tell the Bible believing Christian, "you don't like anyone"! and use it for condemnation, I know you aren't but this is one way, they will try to rope you in. I agree with the posters who told you Peter. Paul and John first and foremost and what is in scripture. The older stuff is often better too, just read and test every teacher. So many have caved as anon mentions or turned out to be with examination to be phonies, well this is one reason to avoid naming names. I do not want to name names, because so many had turned out to be hirelings. You will see on this blog who I 'positively' quote from but even there I consider 100% trust of any teacher that is not Jesus Christ, or one of the apostles in the Bible, a dangerous road to be on. One thing if they are "famous" and have a name everyone recognizes, most likely they are false. They have the love of the world for a reason.

Anonymous said...

Doug, Chan's "exhortation" to read the Word of God resonates with Christians and convinces them to trust him and what he says. In fact a friend who is no longer a friend because I tried to show her Chan's false teaching told me that she was impressed that he used Scripture and encouraged people to read the Word.

What she doesn't realize is that he uses Scripture but in a twisted way and have perverted it and are thereby using God's Word to deceive. Like I tried to tell her, Satan used Scripture from the very beginning in the Garden and Satan tempted our Lord by quoting Scripture!

Once s book such as Crazy Love is read and accepted, the delusion has taken hold and clouds one's reasoning and ability to rightly divide the Word. Also, the first couple of chapters are "right on" to lull the believer into complacency and let their guard down.

Lisa Ruby said...

Bible Believer,

You mentioned that Francis Chan used the term, the "Glorious One" and how that is not a title for God in the Bible. Good call.

No, it is not. The "Glorious One" is a title for the Islamic god.

Lisa Ruby said...

"Glorious One" is also a Buddhist term for one of their deities.

http://tsgfoundation.org/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=46&category_id=4&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=164

This term is probably used in a lot of religious systems.

Francis Chan is into syncretism, which is the goal of every religious leader who is paving the way for one world religion.

Lisa Ruby said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

Yeah I agree Anon, that is good thing you remind Doug of this. Often these false preachers know the right lingo, they will speak of the majesty of God, and some "truths" but then introduce the falsehoods. So yes when he tells people to trust in God's Word, this is another way to get people to listen to him and stop their questioning.
Thanks for reminding that even Satan used scripture for his own devices.

One thing I write on here, even if they can quote scripture like no other, it doesn't mean they are of the right spirit.

I could see in the book how he really worked to draw people in, and speaking truths especially at the start.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Lisa,

Yes I never have seen that term "Glorious One" used in a Christian context but have seen it in many context's of false religions.

It is used for Buddha

http://www.abebooks.com/Buddha-Sutra-Dialogue-Glorious-Saraydarian-Torkom/4994755174/bd

and you are correct it is used for Allah [of Islam]

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=%22Glorious+One%22+and+Allah&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

Interesting how they are always sneaking things in like that isn't it?

I agree he is synecretistic and ecumenical. Definitely and the support of the UN millenial goals/Dominionist program is also quite apparent.

I have never read AW Tozer but would like to see his writings. Yes the dispensationalist stuff is better left avoided.

Lisa said...

Great post on Chan. Thanks for all your thoughtful work in bringing his work to light using God's Word.

Ken Mann said...

Wow, I don't agree with what you're saying. I've been on mission to Central America, South America, China and South Africa. We have no clue what abject poverty is. I've lived in poverty here in the States and thought I had it bad...until I saw a family of 5 living in a 3' wide x 10' long "house" built of plywood and insulated with old newspapers. I'm not saying that homelessness and poverty are problems we don't face here in America (been there, done that and know the stress and fear that comes with it), but we'd have to dig 5 more levels down in poverty to reach the levels of some of these other nations. You're absolutely right about the need to trust in God's Word - even Paul had the Bereans, right? :-) I felt like this article was pretty critical and didn't get the main gist of what Francis Chan was saying. I'm just a brother in Christ politely disagreeing...

Bible Believer said...

Hi Ken,

Please read this other article.

The United Nations-world antichrist system which these churches and teachers are tied to is NOT going to HELP the poor, they EXPLOIT them.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/06/liberation-theology-exploiting-poor-for.html

I have written other articles too on this blog regarding the poor.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20Poor

When comparing third world poverty to American poverty, many third world people still have social networks and know how to hunt, fish and live off the land. So even there the 2 dollars a day stuff does not mean they are trying to stretch 2 dollars a day at their local Giant grocery store or something.

That said,you are right much of their poverty is horrible even among American standards.

They may live without running water, etc, but one worse thing about the growing American Depression is outside of rural areas, and preppers and those who live off the land, American when they either see their money worth less then the paper it is printed on are going to be far more in trouble. How come these preachers ignore the growing poverty in America?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/11/poverty-in-america-growing-worse-with.html

By the way, I have admitted on this blog, I have experienced poverty myself [severe by American standards] and even now it is only the blessings of God mantaining even this computer connection.

Francis Chan just spoke at a conference with World Relief-thusly United Nations ties.

Please read the Liberation Theology article, it helps explain.

The global elite and central bankers are merely exploiting the poor. All this globalism and centralized control is going to IMPOVERISH THEM MORE. Monsanto is going to oppress the third world farmer more then you could even dream. It is happening now.

Those who hopelessly believe in world utopias and "poverty being ended" regarding human sin failed to learn the lesson of the Tower of Babel in the Bible.

Bible Believer said...

See this article too...

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/07/oppressing-poor-for-globalist-agenda.html

Bible Believer said...

Much of the poverty in other countries too is caused by SHEER CORRUPTION. [human sin and evil] This is what happens too when you need a bribe to do anything. Food distribution is destroyed and infrastructure does not work, when warlords grab the bags of Rice. I see much navite' among those who support someone like Chan, and they seem to not even realize how the rest of the world WORKS.

Lisa Ruby said...

Bible Believer, I deleted my post where I wrote, "A.W. Tozer's works are excellent and will help one to grow spiritually. His writings are meaty and challenging."

I have to qualify that statement now because I have just learned that A.W. Tozer quoted from several Catholic mystics! For this reason, I can no longer endorse Tozer's works at large. Sadly, Tozer endorsed a book called, Cloud of Unknowing.

Wickipedia contained this remark about the book, Cloud of Unknowing: "The book counsels a young student to seek God, not through knowledge and intellection (faculty of the human mind), but through intense contemplation, motivated by love, and stripped of all thought."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing

We are supposed to seek God while being stripped of all thought? That is contemplative prayer -- an occult methodology that has crept into the (falling away) church.

And Tozer quotes from it -- not to expose this false mystic doctrine, but as a source of his inspiration! He even calls this book our old teacher-friend in the book, The Price of Neglect, Chapter 12: "Our old teacher-friend, The Cloud of Unknowing, gives us some light on proper motives in relationship to the nature of God Himself."

I am sad to learn of this. There are more instances in which A.W. Tozer quotes from Catholic writers.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Lisa,

I understand, yeah all that empty your mind of thoughts stuff, run far away from, that is the Catholic mystic contemplation message as well as the Mystery Babylon message across the board, Hindu-Buddhist meditation, the devil wants people across the board to empty their minds. I'm of the opinion just about every "known" name is tainted. That is the place where I am approaching. I know it is disappointing but better you find out.

Hmmm wonder if that is what they named the computer CLOUD stuff after...Just a thought...

brown one said...

I have spent some time reading comments and I also have spent hours listening to the sermons by Francis Chan and watching his life. I have come to this conclusion that you all are like acting like the religious leaders who attack Jesus in the gospels. They were constantly were upset with Jesus that he was doing good but not their way. He too could not please them. We should speak about major sin issues like denying Christ and etc. This is not about a glaring sin or a heretic teaching. You are speculating about a sentence in his book and etc. Questioning his motives over what? Why do we have to find fault with this brother? He is a heretic for what? He tries to emphasis the greatness of God and that we should live for Christ with this perspective. He challenges us to read our bible and wake up from our sleep in the USA. Francis is not living in a mansion but lives on 30,000 a year. he does not preach a false gospel but simply repeats what Christ taught us. The income that he gets from books he uses to help the poor. He is not in it for the show. He left his comfortable church and is now living among the poor to reach them with the gosple and to help the poor. He is one of the few Christians leaders telling Americans that our lifestyle is completely obsessed with self and so far removed from the teachings of scriptures. James Chapter 2 makes it clear that we should have actions to show the genuineness of our love."What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. Let me end with this. We are wasting so much valuable time on these blogs picking on others over petty disagreements. You are ignoring Romans 14:10-14 "You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,‘every knee will bow before me;every tongue will acknowledge God.’” So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Christian Cerna said...

I am really enjoying reading your blog. God has obviously gifted you with discernment and understanding. All of your life experiences have helped to show you the difference between the true Gospel and the many counterfeit gospels that are out there. Often times we do not understand why we go through things in life. It is only afterwards that we see that they helped mold our character.

Anonymous said...

Thankyou for your article, and the comments. May we continue to be aware of the false teaching of the works based, ecumenical heresies that are no longer creeping into the Church, but marching boldly over the Word of God. With well known charismatic leaders of big churches behind this movement, even their DVD's and books have replaced the Bible in "Bible study" in many many churches. I saw the touching video of Francis leaving his church to go to Asia, along with the tears, apprehension, excitement etc of the new path he was on. Then 4 months later he was back in his church with a message of condemnation to all who didnt get his "revelation". Then followed ongoing revelations on the forgotten Holy Spirit, the consequences of making Jesus too nice etc etc. Francis is undoubtably sincere, but it is possible to be sincerely misguided. If the Bible has been your source of teaching and you are seeking God's will for your life, you should have a balanced view of the Father, Jesus Christ and our comforter and teacher, the Holy Spirit. You wont be swinging to and fro to every wind of doctrine that arises. Jesus didnt come to create Social Justice, change a broken system or clean up heresies and false teachers. He came to die on our behalf, pay the awful price for our sin, and to restore those who accept Him to the Father. As such our lives should reflect that truth, which will look different for each one of us, depending on a multitude of things. When He is ruling from Jerusalem we will see a very different world. In the meantime we are to be obedient to the great commission and should endeavour to do good to all men, as God enables us to do so, but especially to those who are of the household of faith in Him.

Bible Believer said...

Oops I accidentally erased a recent comment here, I agree. Chan teaches a false gospel! Definitely.

Anonymous said...

Frances Chan & Jim Cymbala are the new wave of emergent church preachers who have turned aside from teaching actual factual Scripture and now sell books and lead conferences filled with lectio divina/charismatic chaos prayer sessions with a side story that just happens to include some twisted Bible verse to prove that God is speaking to them directly! Look up the next 2013 6:4 Fellowship Pastor's Conference which includes these two men. You will see a long list of innocent ministers (one of them is mine) being told to find new, more better mystic prayer formulas to access God's ear? Add on learning Lectio Divina lite praying. And featuring further classes on how to begin having new "revelations" or "encounters" from God? Which is really nothing more than insisting Jesus must have left a whole lot of unspoken prophecy, untaught. Or mytic ways to pray, not mentioned when he was teaching on earth. So today we have these unknown events being professed from the local pulpit as new messages Jesus forgot to mention. Thus, I find that the emergent end times church seems to be hastening into the one I am attending! And that is the main problem. No one challenges this emergent church messed up message. They just leave in silence. Looking for a church that still teaches truth. I am thankful for the handful of online ministries who post what is wrong with all of this. And how Scriptures do not agree with these sinister ministers teaching massive errors. I see a few others are doing some research on what is happening in today's church and for that I say = THANK YOU!

Jennifer Slattery said...

I suppose that's the problem with writing. It's impossible to get the whole picture and it's easy for people to misjudge and misread. If you know francin Chan and his ministry at all, he and his church are very active in their area, doing amazing things for the poor. And yet, if you've ever been to a third world country, you'd know even many of our homeless are doing much better than many, many in other areas of the world. And, as a whole, American Christians do tend to spend a great deal of their money on things like cable, cell phones, going out to eat, wearing nice clothes, etc.

Honestly, if I have the luxury of buying coffee, I am likely way better off than perhaps 95% of the world's population.

Jennifer Slattery said...

I should've waited to "publish" my comments. Sorry for the double comment, but again, if you listen to his sermons, you'll know he often clearly reveals the gospel and encourages his audience and listeners to repent. Does he offer an altar call after every service? Probably not. But there is danger is preaching only on one truth and neglecting the rest. And yes, we are to win souls, but we are also to actively demonstrate Christ's love, to disciple, encourage, pray, help the poor, widow and orphan. And I imagine if he wrote a book on the gospel, he wouldn't address widows and vice versa, because effective writing focused on one point that is clearly presented.

Anonymous said...

Francis Chan is a false teacher with a false gospel of works that cannot save. He teaches works for salvation, and rejects faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. He is in the lie of "lordship salvation". He leads people to hell.

He stepped down from a church one time because he thought he might not be saved. He's not someone that should be teaching anybody.

Denise said...

I came across this today and thought you'd be interested:

http://truthxchange.com/articles/2013/08/14/let-the-little-ones-come-to-me-social-justice-gone-awry/

In Christ,

Denise

Anonymous said...

As I drove home today I tuned in to my old christian radio station. On the Frank Sontag show was Shelene Bryan promoting her Love Skip Jump book. Francis Chan wrote the forward, she said. Her message was the same. An emotional story that is about helping feed poor children in other countries.

Since Francis Chan recently endorsed Mike Bickel saying he loved him - Mike Bickel from IHOP with all that crazy drunk in the spirit stuff - I can only wonder how this plays out in the big picture.

Social justice, drunk in the spirit... is Joel's Army connected, too? Just wondering out loud.

Anonymous said...

Amen Brown One...Amen

Bible Believer said...

From what I have seen all the Joel's Army and Dominionist NAR types are in with the Globalism too. World "social justice" with both a left and right flavor.

Anonymous said...

Yes! Amen and agreed! Couldn't have said it better!

Anonymous said...

I have recently listened to a couple sermons of Francis Chan's, then I remembered you had written about him, so I looked up and found this article.
Some things I noticed are that his sermons really hit home, and they did cause me to feel guilty. Then I read your article. You are right that most of us are not wealthy. The statement about people living on $2 per day vs. $4000 a month or more in the U.S. is absurd. Does the guy not know the first thing about economics? My daughter is in the 6th grade, and even she knows that inflation influences the value of a currency. $4000 here cannot be compared to $4000 in a remote village of Africa. How about economics 101 for these guys. And yes, you are right, they do not need to spend what we spend. They might live in a hut they built themselves or hunted their own food, they simply do not have the expenses that we have. I can vouch for the fact that our expenses are greater than our income, and it is NOT because we buy, buy, buy. We do not have cable, no land-line, no Starbucks frappes at every whim, no toys for my kids every time we go to the store--don't remember the last time they got a new gift except last Christmas. (I know, BB, you don't celebrate Christmas. We spend $50 per person, btw, which I am sure Francis Chan would consider excess.) No family vacations, my husband and I see a movie maybe once a year. I make most of my food from scratch, but I have to purchase the ingredients, I don't have a forest or garden in my backyard. Does that make me a materialistic?
I have to admit, Francis Chan makes some good points, but you are right, he is not living in the real world.
Also, one commenter mentioned that he mocked homeschoolers. He does say a lot of things like sheltering your kids too much, living in a bubble, etc. I know some people who believe in sending your kids to public school to minister to the lost. They think it is wrong to shelter them in a private school or homeschool. This is utterly ridiculous thinking. Would you throw someone into the ocean without a life preserver? That is like sending a child to the wolves. Training up a child is NOT sending them to a school where the kids have filthy mouths, have sex in 3rd grade, do drugs, and more. They will NOT minister to these kids. Most likely it will be the other way around. It is terrible to do that to your children, parents!
Finally, I saw a clip of Francis Chan in what appeared to be his apartment. It was nicer than my house. So does he advocate giving it all up or not? I am 100% positive the monthly rent on his apartment is more than the monthly payments on my little house. To what extent does he live this "radical" life? His home was comfortable! And I bet he had food in the fridge as he does not appear to be starving, and even seems to have time and money to go to the gym, a luxury I cannot afford.
I think I've said enough for now.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe people actually read this blog. I stumbled on it while doing a Google search. This wreaks of self-righteousness, legalism, and envy. Chan challenges you to walk as Jesus did. I am born again. I have the Holy Spirit. My Spirit agrees with his interpretation of scripture. Spend less time witch hunting in front of your computer screen and go make disciples. We Are Church is a beautiful ministry that is having a huge impact in the inner-cities. People being the church instead of simply going to church. Your theology is messed up and most conservative evangelicals and reformed theologians would agree with Chan and Platt. So, please. Stop writing blogs and go walk as Jesu did.