Sunday, November 20, 2011

More Disturbing Things About The Duggars


I wrote about the Duggars here: [Read these blog entries for context]

"The Oppression of Youth and Dominionism"

and

"The Duggars, Bill Gothard, Vision Forum, and The Quiverful Movement"




The other week, Michelle Duggar announced she was having her 20th baby. Maybe it's just me, but I have grown more disturbed at the whole circus. Watching the show for me has become about exposing what is going with it and the movements this family are promoting. The children are great, they are sweet, and many are lovable, but there is much to be concerned about as the family that rejects television in their own house but stars in one of the most watched reality shows out there which advances insidious agendas.  I found myself thinking of Michelle Duggar's announcement:, "What about the baby she just had, who has gone back on oxygen and who now will join the numbers of the neglected "lost" children?"  One example is Jordyn who seems to bumble around her family, 'asking who are these people and what am I doing here?", horribly ignored it seems.

That said, they have the right to have as many children as they want, [there are options for a couple to abstain 1 Cor 7:5 in the Bible which these two could have chosen] but very few realize that this couple is caught up in such cultic beliefs, that Michelle Duggar feels she must martyr herself to have as many children as possible, forgoing common sense, and even caring about the children she already has.

She said this:

“As I thought long and hard about that, I realized that ‘There’s no greater love than this that a man would be willing to lay down his life,’ and I think as a mom and a parent you’d be willing to do that for your child — even the child that’s not here yet. I would be willing to do that,” she said."


Maternal Martyr, Michelle Duggar, Willing to Risk Life for Baby #20

This article is right about the poisonous aspects of Quiverful where quantity counts at all costs, and motherhood is to be pushed above everything else, even the well-being of one's own health and the children and family already present. I remember seeing these attitudes in the Catholic church, where with some Trad Catholics who did not believe in birth control, even a broken woman who was told she would die by the doctor with the next pregnancy suffered badly. Her husband ignored her health and she got pregnant with number 16. I do not know the final results, but this woman's health had even been in more danger then Michelle Duggar's. This reminds me too of a Catholic friend in the same church who was told by two doctors, they would die via pregnancy and were told by priests, that it was their "duty" and they'd be martyrs for God if they died in childbirth. Remember prior to Vatican 2, this is how it was done EVERYWHERE in the Catholic church. Some of us are old enough to remember. Even the allowances for natural family planning was part of the "liberalization" of the Catholic church. It remains to be seen, but I have the running theory that even Quiverful probably has a tie to Catholicism in it's origins to even be introduced as such a similar teaching.

To me, Michelle Duggar's comment about martyring herself for another baby is very disturbing, and ignores what would happen to a family like the Duggars, should Mom lose her life, in having the most babies as possible. Jim Bob Duggar also holds responsibility here too. Where is his concern for his wife's health and well-being or that of his children? Even with the announcement of her 20th pregnancy,some of the children looked horrified though others kept the smiles plastered on their faces.  Let's not forget just a year and half ago, they had their lives uprooted and watched mother and sister almost die. These things were ignored by the parents.



This ties into the Dominionism too, where the woman's worth, is only seen in how many future babies she will have. The article quotes Mary Pride, a proponent of Quiverful who states:

“Missionaries go to foreign countries to beget new Christians; mothers get pregnant to be beget new Christians. Even if maternal missionary work has some hazards (and what missionary work doesn’t?), the noble way is to face them with courage. Likewise, we really ought to honor women with medical problems … diabetes, asthma, quadriplegia, arthritis, heart problems … who are willing to serve God with their bodies as mothers.”


So Michelle Duggar via her false cultic religious beliefs, has been told to have as many babies as possible even if means the end of her life and leaving the 19 she does have without a mother? Sorry but this stuff to me comes out of old school Catholicism, with phariseeical religious leaders laying burdens they themselves would not bear. How many average American families with both parents working a full time job to keep the rent paid and food on the table could take care of 20 children?

There is something worrying about that. I find myself agreeing with some of the even the secular writers who concede that Michelle Duggar is a mentally ill "baby collector" who loses interest in each child, after they leave infancy. Having watched enough of the shows, her bond with the older children seems limited. The older children seem to be more the "parents" in a way of the younger children.

One secular website [warning there are some language issues] states it this way:


"Is it really? Let's study the situation. Before their television show and book earned them millions of dollars, the children lived cramped together in a very small house . However, they live in a slightly large house since their television show. Their children's bedroom is a dormitory-like setting with multiple bunk beds. They have no privacy at all. To top all this, they have to schedule time with their parents WEEKS ahead.

Their older children have no childhoods at all. They function as primary caregivers and it is mandatory that they raise their younger siblings. Their parents do not raise the children at all. However, the Duggars INTEND to have more children. This does not make sense to most educated, normal, and intelligent people. ,We have been educated to know that when a person becomes a parent, it is their responsibility to raise their children, not other children. If a parent is affluent enough, he/she usually hires an au pair and/or a nanny to help raise their children.

Although the Duggars have money to hire nannies and au pairs to raise their children, they elect not to do so. Instead they have their oldest children consigned to slave labor status as handmaidens and servants to their younger siblings. Psychologist decry parents who have children raise other children. Psychological studies state the children do not have the maturity and the development to raise other children. The studies assert that the raising of children is an ADULT responsibility, not ANOTHER CHILD'S responsibility. I concur with those studies. An older sibling raise a younger siblings constitutes child abuse.

Furthermore, many women, including Michelle Duggar, have an inordinate amount of children because of "baby hunger". Psychological and sociological studies maintained that there are many women who continuously get pregnant because they crave infants. Once their children leave infancy, they miss this and have another child. This is a form of mental illness. These psychologically challenged women kept on having infants to the neglect of the older children. This is what Michelle Duggar is doing. She is neglecting the older children to continuously have infants to satisfy her "baby hunger".

It is evident that the oldest children in the family are neglected and relegated to the status of servant to the parents and to the younger siblings. Most rationally minded parents stop at one or two children because they believe that it all they can care for emotional and psychologically. Financial affordability is not the only factor in deciding how many children a couple has Emotional availability should be another factor. Even though a couple is highly affluent, does not mean that they should have a large family. Studies show that as a family becomes large, parents are unable to invest much emotional time in the caring of their children.

To state it succinctly, the Duggars are UNABLE to care for their children. Yet, the Duggars indicated that they wanted a twentieth child. This is totally inane. They do not even take care of the other ninteteen they have. They have it very easy as parents. That job is done by their children. There was one segment of the series in which the oldest daughters wanted to travel but the mother forbade it because she wanted them to look after her infant child"

While I believe there is nothing wrong, with having older children help in a very large family, the Duggars have taken things far far beyond that. One can see even if they watch the show, the bonds between the "buddies" surpass that of the parents.

The parents merely round them up for trips, do a Bible study but even with the homeschooling, the oldest daughters have been given the job to do all the teaching for the youngest and have taken over most of the jobs, that a mother is supposed to at least be in charge of.

That said, watching young women long out of high school, playing permanent baby-sitters for their mother, not being prepared for any future is also a concern. One thing about the Quiverful circles, is they leave their children especially female children unprepared in a society that demands education and some skills to succeed. If they were Amish, there would be at least a community and future beaus for their daughters to marry in a self enclosed system, but for now all they have formed is a gilded cage for their SAHD daughters to live in, denying them education, and opportunities even to build a future life.

Even if they preach motherhood and marriage and no career for the older girls, the oldest Duggar daughters are now well into their early 20s, and have not dated or even been allowed to "court" as far as any of us know. Imagine if some of them joined the regular world, they would find themselves years behind their peers even in education. What kind of future do they have to look forward to? It is a growing problem. Even the Amish allow their teenage children to meet in a group for games and fellowship after church services to at least give their children to meet their future mates.

By the way, I know people personally with SAHD  "Stay At Home Daughters", this is not uncommon in the "Christian" fundamentalist world now. The isolation of this life, living like it's 1830 in a 2011 world has major limitations. I do not know how that will pan out for those young women who are some of the sweetest girls I've ever met but seem consigned to living in a bubble. What is scary, is the two families I am thinking of live in a very modern suburbanized community, even the numbers of future Quiverful "Christian" husbands would be very few and far between. If one is going to live this way, at least give your grown daughters a fighting chance and move to a very traditional more rural community, or have at least a church network of some sort that shares in the same beliefs. That is a reality out there, the Quiverfuls often live in a world where they are "connected" via the literature, magazines, and the occasional ATI or homeschool conferences--there is a reason that the Duggars "best friends" ,the Bates live a few states away.

What is ironic about most Quiverful/Vision Forum families, including the two that I know, are the mothers and fathers often had modern education, and in the father's case hold jobs that require a regular college education. While we can be concerned about the wicked things being foisted through the university system and public school system, when no vocational training of any sort is offered that is accredited or approved outside the cult system, what will those young people have to do for a living?  That is setting children including young men who must find some way to support these immensely large families up for future failure and being way behind their peers. The Duggars have consigned their children to these 'outside' the system organizations even past the normal  homeschool K-12 point forgoing college or trade school for the "College Plus" program.

Here too, the Amish have lands and farms for self sufficiency and some of the families are wise to go more in that direction, but watching the older children in the Duggar family being denied real educations that will be marketable seems to be a disaster in the waiting, once the TLC money dries up. Some may manage to have successful business built on Dad's coattails, but it's doubtful that is going to happen for 10 sons.

This article "Homeschool Blindspots" points some of those major problems out but what about not preparing children for future careers? That is just one of the biggest problems right there. Even among the Duggar children such as Jill and Josiah, who seem to be having their dreams of more intellectual pursuits repressed. Some time ago, I asked one of the Vision Forum influenced families I know if their grown daughter would be going to college, she told me, "No, she will be preparing to be a midwife." These particular folks, live in a suburban house, in a community where most go to the hospital to birth their babies.

Many of those like the Duggars end up living in a little bubble world where home is the "entire world". There is a growing issue out there and warning it does use a tune of modern music to make it's message, this video was done by a Christian man who homeschools his children but worries for the affects of the extreme SAHD/Quiverful/Vision Forum/Gothard teachings on girls who must have every future husband approved by their fathers using humor.



This definitely seems to be a fate that very well could befall the Duggar girls.

One thing, many look at the Duggar children, and think they are so happy, but ignore the cult realities beyond the surface, one of those is ATI, itself. ATI, actually stands for ADVANCED TRAINING INSTITUTE, which is kind of a scary name, denoting control and worse. What is everyone being TRAINED for?



They are sent to ATI camps to be taught Bill Gothard's teachings. See here. Now if you read that website and the young girl who was sent to ATI camp and said some of the Duggar girls were present, I noticed something she wrote right off

There was a big emphasis on quieting of the mind and being silent. Waiting for God. Really waiting. I have been working on that on the train and since I came home. It really is an exercise!! 

That sounds like contemplative exercises, that are not Christian nor biblical. One Christian commenter even comes on to warn her. ATI is Bill Gothard's organization and supports the Quiverful, patriarchial visions, where even grown children are to remain under the umbrella of the father. They add to the Bible with their so called "Wisdom Booklets" 



Marriage is a pretty big subject, but notice how meekness is the thing on the roster here, to help promote the patriarchy teachings. Here are some Duggars singing at ATI camp. Good song, but what about the false teachings that go along with it?




Webwide, one can read even more detail about Bill Gothard's false teachings.

The Bill Gothard connections, are scary enough, but The Duggars have now shown support for The Pearls. That has always been debated online, do they follow the teachings of the Pearls who are popular in these cirlces? Well looks like they do.  Online, I saw folks discussing The Duggars listing The Pearl's "ministry" "No Greater Joy" on their website in helping to sell their products. Obviously this is some support for the teachings of the Pearls.. Remember the Pearls? If you google them you can find endless websites that expose them and their ties to childhood abuse. Why are the Duggars supporting this ministry on their website given the controversies?



One thing to remember about the Duggars, the shiny happy faces do not tell the whole story. Don't be fooled there. ATI teaches that young people must always look happy, which is often the way things are done in every other cult.  Show outsiders bright, happy, shining faces. So do not let the smiling faces of the children fool you, they probably are really happy some of the time, but other times, I really doubt it. This article goes into more detail:


One of the creepiest things about Gothard and the Pearls is that they teach that happy is the only acceptable emotion. If you do not have a joyful countenance, you are publicly shaming your authorities. In other words, if the kid looks unhappy, it is a personal offense against the parents. Pearl also has nauseating quotes and anecdotes about how any time his kids expressed unhappiness or anger they were hit even harder and longer until they were cheerful. How twisted is that? Children are taught from babyhood to always be cheerful, or else they deserve a spanking. As they grow older, it is not just the fear of a spanking that causes them to keep smiling. It is the sincere belief that they are sinning with ingratitude, rebellion and more if they don't present a happy face.




Hopefully The Duggars do not take things that far beyond the already admitted "blanket training" [see above], but keep that in mind the next time you read about or watch the Duggars.

Why is this particular family being so promoted?

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

That last question is interesting. I am disappointed that the Duggars promote the Pearls. The Duggars say in their last book on page 157 that their children can attend the local community college and the nearby university if they decide to pursue degrees. Registered nurses is mentioned.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks regarding the question. I am disppointed too by the promotion of the Pearls but obviously there was unusual methods used even years ago when they started "blanket-training" the middle kids. The college thing, I'll check out. The two oldest are actually at the age, where they would be graduating by now. I went to look at the last book, page 157 is missing [they don't show all pages] but on page 158 talk about College Plus. Admitting on that page is that College Plus is not accredidated in the same way.

http://books.google.com/books?id=UGwAu-QXWRMC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=College+Plus+exposed&source=bl&ots=yuh5U7Xh3n&sig=_LeHnaFjZ-VE5cCZpk8nOingCzU&hl=en&ei=lrjJTtzcD9TKsQLLq4ww&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=College%20Plus%20exposed&f=false

The Roaming Commoner said...

I have pretty much given up on all things pertaining to or involving the Duggars. I really wonder what will happen when baby number twenty arrives. Josie is evidently not doing well at all. What if she ends up having a serious disability (mentally or physically)? I agree that Michelle is more about the numbers of children than about the children themselves.

Bible Believer said...

I have given up on them too except to expose what is going on and advancement of these agendas. Yeah Josie is still doing not well at all. She appears to me to have serious delays, that are not being addressed. Yeah Michelle seems more intent on the numbers then dealing with the children, even the fact her oldest daughters seem to be mouldering at home rather then beginning their adult lives is a major problem. Many of the middle children are definitely on their own. The ones who are not as closely bonded with a sibling or a buddy, are the ones really in trouble.

Anonymous said...

Is this the sentence you are referring to-"College Plus! is helping students in all fifty states earn degrees that cost more than 70 percent less yet hold the exact same form of accreditation."?

Bible Believer said...

I got that particular sentence wrong, thanks for pointing that out. LOL they promote College Plus what was I thinking.... While student loans are a problem when a whole thing sounds too good to be true.

I found this online...

"You will get a degree from a college with little respect or prestige. CollegePlus apparently does coaching for College Level Examination Program (CLEP). The problem is that most repected universities have very low limits as to how many CLEP or other outside credits are allowed to apply to a degree. So this organization went college shopping for one of the few schools with no CLEP restrictions, at Thomas Edison State College. The approach of taking lots of CLEP units doesn't work at many other universities, so if you want a degree at virtually unknown TESC, then CollegePlus is one approach to do it."

Even the Duggars admit the emphasis on CLEP tests.

Anonymous said...

I just read the link of the girl who went to camp. There's a good comment with it. I don't think young girls or children should be fasting for breakfast. I read it was optional but it shouldn't be an option. If the Duggars had nothing to do with the Pearls,Gothard,etc. I would feel better about them. On page 92 of their last book they say they are not part of the Quiverful movement.

Lisa Ruby said...

The Duggars link to the Pearls twice. The Pearl family owns and writes articles for bulkherbstore.com too.

http://libertytothecaptives.net/pearl_occult_markings_index.html

Lisa Ruby said...

The Duggars actually have links to three different Pearl businesses. Cane Creek Coffee is owned by their son, Nathan and his wife.

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/who-is-ngj/meet-the-pearls/

For some reason they are trying very hard to build revenue for the Pearls' various businesses.

Anonymous said...

Mary Pride has a great article at home-school.com. It's titled- Patriarchy, Meet Matriarchy.

Bible Believer said...

Is that the same Mary Pride that was quoted above?

Has she parted ways from earlier views? {Hey I am no longer Catholic or UU} I guess I am a bit confused.

She states this...in the article you provided Anon...

"Yet somehow today I find myself "credited" as a founder and promoter of the modern Patriarchy movement."

Maybe she had some good ideas that got twisted later by others, it seems she is calling for more reason...

"Moms, Not Dads, Are Supposed to Teach their Daughters the Womanly Arts

Many of us have cringed when hearing about such things as:

Purity Balls, where dads "date" their daughters and give them a "purity ring"

Father-daughter events where daughters are blindfolded (the better to hear and follow their father's commands) and perform intimate acts of service, such as shaving their fathers (the better to learn to serve their future husbands)

Daughters being told to stay home until married (no college) to "serve" their fathers until they get a husband they can "serve" in turn

I believe this emphasis on dads and daughters started with good, although unbiblical, intentions. It can be traced back to the highly-publicized psychological studies on which Meg Meeker's 2006 book, Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters, was based."

Bible Believer said...

That said I do NOT agree with the quote about Mothers beget NEW CHRISTIANS, that stuff, is being used for Dominionism, kind of like the Dominionist Quiverfuls see themselves as making "new christians" via childbirth and not via preaching the gospel, sort of a new "chosen people" phenomenon....

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Lisa for showing the other links to the Pearls, that is awful. So the Pearls are involved with the bulkherbstore too? Yeah, I saw this...

http://www.bulkherbstore.com/articles/red-raspberry-and-debbie-osbornes-goats

So there are the Duggars advancing that business too.

Wow....

See that other name on there listed on the articles,

Shoshanna Easling

That is Michael Pearl's daughter...

"Shoshanna is Mike and Debi’s fifth child. She is married to James Easling, inventor and builder. They are the owners of The Bulk Herb Store, Thread Tree, Shoshanna Gardens, and Well Tell Me. James and Shoshanna live in middle Tennessee with their son, Jeremiah James, and daughter, Penelope Jane, where they operate their businesses. They are in love with each other and life in general, and don't seem to be able to stop smiling."

and Rebekah (Pearl) Anast

is another daughter of the Pearls writing on there

Yeah Pearl owned business...

So on the Duggar website are two PEARL FAMILY OWNED BUSINESSES.

Here is another one on CANE CREEK COFFEE..isn't their church named CANE CREEK TOO?

http://www.canecreekcoffee.com/

"Nathan and Zephyr also own Cane Creek Coffee, which offers high-mountain, naturally-grown coffee and Amish soy candles. They discovered this coffee while traveling around the Honduran countryside, and "could not live without it."

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/who-is-ngj/meet-the-pearls/

The Duggar support of and connection to the Pearls highly disturbs me...

with the links to abuse, the Pearl occult markings and false things I have seen for myself on their website, and parents using "their methods" with deadly results, and other problems.

For those who do not know much about Pearls check out the articles on Liberty to the Captives...

http://libertytothecaptives.net/pearl_occult_markings_index.html

I have checked out the Pearls website for myself and seen EXTREME problems on it, including subtle delusions and twisted things regarding the raising of children.

I talk about just a few things I saw there on this old blog entry. At the time I wrote this article this was just a little bit I saw too.

I have considered going through and doing a closer examination for some time.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/02/worse-christian-advice-ive-ever-seen.html

The Duggar/Pearl connection is NOT good.

I do pray for the Duggar children that they are shown the truth and for freedom from the cult.

Bible Believer said...

Anon, I don't buy the Duggar claim they have nothing to do with Quiverful. When people say one thing and do another, then that is time to wonder. They may have nothing to do with it "officially" but they do have OFFICIAL interactions, awards, seminars, with ATI and VISION FORUM which push the Quiverful models.

That camp sounded weird. Read through that girl's entry. Of course even watching the Duggars, I saw the weird pseudo military exercises the male children were being put through at ATI camp. I do not agree with young girls being told to fast for breakfast either, even if they say is "optional" in another way it is not, remember this is a place where outward signs of holiness are promoting. Fasting has a place in the believers life, but it is not to be a group exercise and with growing children it is something different. Yeah the promotion of Pearl businesses is worrisome.

The Roaming Commoner said...

I've heard Michelle (in a past season of the show) say something to the effect of "saying that there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers." I think that Michelle has been so busy collecting more "flowers" that she forgets the beauty of the garden that is already in front of her.

Anonymous said...

I am the anonymous of this post's comments. I'll put my name at the end of my comments from now on. I did not use birth control and I do NOT consider myself part of the quiverful movement. I have the book-A Full Quiver(1989). I have Mary Pride's books(not part of the Patriarchy movement) and the Duggar's books(not quiverful). My grandmother had my mother in her forties. We had 6 children and I always hoped to follow my grandmother's example but I didn't have any children while in my forties. Our last child was born when I was 38. I have a Christian friend(3 children) who has type I diabetes(not caused by diet) and now I have a daughter(21-5th child) with it(since she was 5). Our first daughter(28-4th child) was diagnosed with autism in 4th grade and now lives in a nearby group home. As a home educator(we used mostly Abeka-KJ) I have ordered things from Vision Forum(Reformed theology) and other catalogs that I don't agree with(Christian Liberty Press(Reformed),etc.). We attend a Conservative Baptist church(no dress code,not quiverful) and we only read the KJ Bible. I am not pretrib-rapture. We were raised Catholic but married in the Baptist church. I understand why the Duggars say they are not quiverful. Thank you for this discernment blog. -Taryn

Bible Believer said...

Roaming Commoner,

I always thought that was a quote from Mother Teresa, though I could see Michelle D. glomming on to it.

I agree with you that she is more busy collecting flowers, ignoring the beauty of the garden she has before her. It really is a shame.

Bible Believer said...

Taryn,

I am confused what is *not* Quiverful about the Duggars?

Even if they may not have official ties to the Campbell's etc, they seem to follow all the edicts of Quiverful. They have the same Dominionist etc theology. I know there are large families that are not Quiverful, just do not see the Duggars as one of them. Praying for your autistic daughter. I read only KJV Bible myself, and glad you have a decent church to go to. Thanks for your encouragement.

Anonymous said...

I think that some non-Quiverful families with many children do not want to be included in the Quiverful group. Even though we may use Nancy Campbell's(Be Fruitful and Multiply) book and the Hess's(Full Quiver) book to educate others about the birth-control pill being an abortifacient(Randy Alcorn's book,as well) and the negative consequences of sterilization, we do Not believe other Christians are required to not use birth control. We know there are medical conditions,etc. On page 92 of the Duggar's second book they say they teach their sons to respect women and treat them like queens. On the same page they say they are not against women getting college degrees, starting their own businesses or having good-paying jobs. On page 155 they say their daughters already have jobs- playing music at weddings,etc. I don't know if they are Dominionists. The Duggars don't promote Reform-theology home education history curricula. They are patriotic and political(anti-abortion,pro-life). They are Creationist(literal 6-day creation-answersingenesis) but not Intelligent Design. They do not believe in dating before marriage(chapter 18 of last book). I am creationist and pro-courtship(intent to marry with the girl's agreement and a short engagement/betrothal).-Taryn

Bible Believer said...

I know with many groups there is overlap and some elements of one group people may reject. What do the Duggars reject about Quiverful? Guess I see them following every aspect of it. I am glad that some of you understand medical conditions and the rest and do not take things to extreme, such as in Trad Catholic church or what went on historically. One thing Mrs Duggar, obviously IS taking things to the extreme with last pregnancy when the last one almost killed her and the baby. They had the choice to abstain or use NFP even if religiously against birth control and did not. Also at 45 years of age, I wonder about some fertility helps being used like even an ovulation timer, which helps the "baby-hunger" case.
Ive heard them say they teach their sons to treat women well, most of them do seem respectful of their sisters. I do not know about them saying they are not against women getting college degrees or businesses or having jobs...that doesn't seem to pan out, their oldest daughters seem trapped in perpetual young adolescence, unless they are hiding REAL college attendance on the show, or part time jobs or something outside the house, I just do not see that one happening. Even relegating Jill to a faux college program and outsider "midwife" training instead of a real nurses education is actually a strike against them stating that. There are three other daughters who are not moving out in the world. I think Mrs. Duggar's focus on more more babies, has denied her older children and the help and guidance they really need to grow up as independent adults. At least the three older daughters should have started at least some GROUP opportunities in meeting young men or acouple of courtships. The problem here, is when mother and father are focused on babies and not on the children they do have, all of this gets lost in the mix, they look to having those daughters be pernament baby sitters rather then having them move out in the world as full fledged adults. I will have to check out page 155, about them having jobs. Their politics are Dominionist and their connection to Vision Forum is enough to label them as such. I agree about them being Creationist, creationist museum etc. With the courtship matters, how do they expect the daughters to meet any young men? The Duggar daughters may get more of a chance, with the world travel etc, but it seems if they have to wait for father's approval to even talk to a young man, you are looking at incredible barriers to marriage especially in today's culture. If they lived in a self-enclosed society like the Amish, that would be different. There are facets of dating I do not like like, having 13 year olds getting personally romantic, in the secular world, is just a recipe for disaster. But even the Amish allow socialization between the older boys and girls. I never see this with the Duggars. There is a point where you over-shelter young girls as the one humor video pointed out where there is no opportunities to marry, and what if you meet someone Dad does not like? That does happen. Sometimes I really feel like some of the courtship stuff, some of these folks almost want the 'bride price" back, dowaries and "arranged marriages" made between fathers.

Anonymous said...

What we should be doing is leaving them alone!!! Everyone has their own opinion on raising children, and from what I have seen the Duggars are doing a pretty darn well job at it. Do you see how content, happy, respectful, and well behaved their children are? How many teenagers do we know that are on medication for depression? How many adults get divorced because they jumped into marriage without enough parental guidance? It isn't a sin to not watch television, so why make a big deal about it? Can anyone prove that not watching television causes dysfunctional families? What the Duggars are trying to do is show that we do not need "stuff" to make us happy. I think people are making something out of nothing. I would say that I am not as strict of a parent as the Duggars ( for one example, I allow my children to watch a little bit of television), but can you honestly say that the Duggars are in any way hurting their children? NO!!! So leave them alone!

Anonymous said...

I apologize for the previous comment about leaving the Duggars alone. I did not know about some of the things they promote until I read the whole article. I need to do more research before I post a comment.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for posting that second post, I appreciate it. I thought differently of the Duggars until I researched more too. If anything I have prayed for someone to reach out to the children, especially the older female adult children, who should be able to find and have lives of their own outside of being perpetual maids and babysitters. It is appalling how they are being left unprepared to even take care of themselves should they remain unmarried or in the future when the Duggar parents die etc.

Anonymous said...

Again, the Duggars have stated THEMSELVES they are not part of the Quiverfull movement, you should stop using them as an example of a movement they are not part of. Again, no disrespect, but you need to research this stuff, but great article otherwise!

Bible Believer said...

The Duggars are involved in endless organizations tied to the Quiverful movement, such as Vision Forum.

Anyhow why trust that statement when everything points to the Quiverful philosophy?

This quote is correct:

"Quiverfull is not a denomination - there are no membership rolls or doctrinal statements to sign. Quiverfull is a philosophy and its consequent lifestylewhich Jim Bob and Michelle have demonstrably adopted."

Look at actions not words sometimes.

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...

So, bottom-line time: Quiverfull is not a denomination - there are no membership rolls or doctrinal statements to sign. Quiverfull is a philosophy and its consequent lifestyle which Jim Bob and Michelle have demonstrably adopted.

http://open.salon.com/blog/nlq/2010/03/08/are_jim_bob_michelle_duggar_quiverfull

Are the Duggars Quiverfull? You bet your life!

Are they Patriarchal? Of course!"

Brandy said...

It amazes me how people think they know something about a family after watching an hour long weekly reality show broadcast. You do realize that there are 168 hours in a week, and only ONE condensed showing of that is put on TV. You need to come down of your pride rock. You don't know as much as you think you do about anything, and you definitely don't know anything about the Duggars. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Bible Believer said...

They have written books about their lives, and what I put on this post was taken from their website.

It is TRUE that they are part of ATI-_Gothards group, and ATI is a cult leading their children into bondage, especially the young adult daughters who still being stuck living the life of preteens instead of young women.

So are you telling me, that you are OK with Gothard's cult, ATI? Are you a member?

Bible Believer said...

I went to your website and noticed you call yourself a "quiverful" mother, I hope you will take the time and read the warnings about Quiverful and how it was especially a PRODUCT of Rome.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/01/note-to-fanatic-for-jesus-quiverful-and.html

Please allow your daughters when they get older and come of age, a life outside of being permanent babysitters and house maids, unlike the Duggars.

Anonymous said...

Seriously Disturbed:

I am so tired of folks saying the Duggars should be "left alone" and they have a right to believe what they want and raise their family any way they want.

Of course they have those rights, but they are not raising their family quietly out of the media. This family, which does not believe in television and does not allow their children to watch it, has a tv show. They also have blogs, are on shows like Today every time a new baby is in the works, and have a published book. In other words, they are a public figure and fair game for questions and constructive criticism IMO. They are also promoting their beliefs to vulnerable people looking for answers. This how people end up in cults and many times, end up dead. Shame on TLC for producing shows like this. Because it is a 'reality show', there is no oversight like there would be if these children were actors and therefore no way to make sure they aren't being filmed 24/7. I remember an episode where one of the children was very sick -- just parked on the couch.

It's pretty clear to me, that like the Gosselins, the crew sometimes steps in and watches the kids and the parents are less concerned with parenting and more focused on the perks that go along with the tv show -- in this case, new house, trips, etc.

The tip of the iceberg was the Jubilee episode, where America was invited to the baby's funeral. I'm sorry, but some things should be private and that is one of them. I shudder to think how these children will function as adults and am afraid that the four oldest girls will still be living in the dormitory when they are in their 30s.

Bible Believer said...

I agree the Duggars have a certain right like anyone else but I consider what they are doing to their children to be abusive. Not only is there the ATI cult aspect of their life, but the enforced Truman show garbage. Are any of those kids over 18 even getting their own bank accounts save for Josh, as millions is made on that show? From what I can tell with the adult girls, they aren't even allowed to handle their own money. They are hypocrites as far as TV goes. How can you refuse a TV in your house and then be a star on a show? I do warn people about TV on here, but I do HAVE ONE, though I am cautious about what I watch on there. Its funny too how they have blogs but then deny their children and grown adult children in the house full access to the internet do not want them finding anything that questions the cult. You are right they have made themselves public figures out for criticism and "selling" a way of life.
One thing I think about the Duggars that troubles me greatly is they never WITNESS the gospel. They never preach about salvation to a lost world and I am supposed to believe this is a born again family? They are lost in a cult that teaches works and other endless false Dominionist teachings. I have the feeling there is no way that our TV media world would allow a truly born again family to have a platform where they could tell millions the true gospel. Instead the right side of the NWO paradigm is being sold Dominionism, Patriarchy, and politicians via the Duggar clan and they are useful to the powers that be, whether knowingly or unknowingly. Given their links to people like the Pearls and promotion of their website, there is a lot more I wonder about with them that I have not stated here.

Bible Believer said...

The children aren't even getting their own money. Does anyone here remember the Gary Coleman story, where he ended up in adult poverty, even though he made millions on Different Strokes because his adoptive parents spent it all.
California even passed laws to protect those like him in the future but I seriously doubt Arkansas has laws like this. Yeah I remember one of their kids being sick but what about the one who had the fall in the orchestra pit? or the little premie baby who has years of her infant suffering now documented for the TV world? Some people actually seeing Mrs Gosselin's ranting and ravings, think the Duggars are "better" by comparison, but I do not think so. I think even them seeking a TV show like this is based in the same sin of pride, and exploiting their children.

They really are into all the perks. The Jubilee funeral to me was a fiasco. True exploitation and Michelle being more about herself. As I watched her boo-hoo and carry on for weeks, I thought "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN YOU ALREADY HAVE? What about women who never got to have a child who were infertile or maybe a woman who had lost their last child?

I think many of the Duggar children are showing signs of delayed development. I think I posted on this but I was horrified when Mrs Duggar wrote an article about many of her kids being dyslexic, I felt this was a cover article to help excuse their serious educational detriments.

Some who have not bonded with a buddy as some have, look to be in even severe emotional neglect. Jordyn?

I think most of America is absolutely disgusted, Christian or not watching 4 young women from the ages of 18-22 living like they are 12 years old in that cramped orphanage like bedroom. Never forget while Mother and Father Duggar sleep in their own bedroom, those girls have been responsible for helping the little ones and getting up when they cried at night. I do not think any of them will ever marry. I actually have been in shock, that not one has tried to leave, maybe they are scared to given the publicity and the control the parents have wielded over them. I often ask why doesn't cousin Amy or Grandma help them go live life?
I have other theories as well I do not want to go into here, but concerns all the blanket training I warned about and the absolutely breaking of human wills. To see young people living without normal curiosity, or wanting to be their own person--how come none of them have been called to the missions field even--full time? or even wanting to grow up, is actually rather shocking. I think the Duggars are failed parents, and their inability to even prepare their children for adult life and to deny them that adult life especially in the daughter's case, is an incredible betrayal of their own children.

I hope once the show goes off the air and reality hits [especially financial and otherwise], some of those children can find a normal life.

FayeHamilton said...

Wow. You sure see a whole bunch of stuff that I'm not seeing when you watch the show. If you find this family so offensive, why on earth do you watch?

Bible Believer said...

How often do you watch the show?

You do realize the Duggar family belongs to a cult. Gothard adds his WISDOM books to the Bible and even recently Michelle on an article referred to the use of Wisdom books in an article about Josie. I watched the show pretty clueless for a time, though it was just a regular although very large fundamentalist family that bordered on the legalistic side, but then I learned the real deal about Dominionism and Gothard. I watch now to expose and talk about what is going on. Many people are being misled by what they have to offer.

Sam said...

Thought you might be interested in this from Ray Comfort of Living Waters. This is quoted from his newsletter:

Preaching...

A year ago we went to Washington, D.C., and filmed the Duggar family (TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting”) as they learned how to open-air preach outside the White House. Unfortunately, only ten members of their family were there (less than half), so we decided to meet up with the whole tribe at their home, then go out onto the streets. That evolved into a trip to the nearby University of Arkansas and open-air preaching to the students. We can’t wait to show you what happened. We should have “19 Kids and Preaching” available for purchase in the near future. We will keep you updated.

Here's a link also to a video about this as well: http://www.onthebox.us/2012/09/19-kids-and-preaching.html

Bible Believer said...

I do hope some of those children are TRULY SAVED and if any are, they will do their own bible study and study, have the conviction of the Holy Spirit and come out of the cult. There is much about Gothard where he preaches directly against the Bible beyond the Dominionist craziness. To be frank, this is their best HOPE. Even when I think of their would be ESCAPE, while they may run from the family cult, the world has more then enough horrible traps waiting for them.

My worry though is the thinking that their children are automatically *saved* from being raised "right* and being taken out to street preach when there has been no biblical salvation. I see this all the time on ex-fundie boards and blogs, grown adults talking about how they never believed being taken out to street preach or do missions and never having been born again. IT's all style and no substance. But then there is the POSITIVE, of them hearing some street preaching though obviously there are a few Billy Graham like issues with Ray Comfort and I pick up a bit of weirdness even on how the gospel is presented in a FORMULAIC way, I did watch enough of those WAY OF THE MASTER videos. He seems to preach some convolution in that he focuses on turning away from sin FIRST and while yes repentance COMES with salvation it seems a bit twisted up to me. The unbelievers he is hoping to convict with the 10 commandments, how will they even care about sin if they do not have the Holy Spirit to convict them on it? Sure probably some seeking after God and desiring His truth get saved who do believe, just like at BGEA "crusades" but something always read off to me there.

Here is another serious matters. Do any of those children and grown young adults understand what being a Christian really is? Why is it assumed that every Duggar child IS a Christian?
Like they are peas in a pod and every single one has been already been born again?

I suppose it is a positive that they have now been given an example of preaching, and the idea of being "born again" outside of the "live perfect" legalism formula but then why isn't Ray Comfort warning them of the cult they live within? Why isn't Ray Comfort warning the whole family about Gothard?

I consider Ray Comfort obviously a compromised ecumenical preacher, and even on this blog showed him hanging out with the leader of Vision Forum.

So that whole thing is very strange.

What is weird is Ray Comfort says Gothard helped get his video out...

"1990: The teaching was published in a book called, Hell's Best Kept Secret.

1992: Thanks to Bill Gothard, over 30,000 pastors saw this teaching via video, and the ministry began to grow."

http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=186

"Ray Comfort's ministry has been commended by Franklin Graham, Ravi Zacharias, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, Josh McDowell, Dr. Norman Geisler, Bill Gothard, David Wilkerson, Joni Eareckson Tada, and many other Christian leaders. He has written for Billy Graham's Decision magazine and Bill Bright's Worldwide Challenge.

His literature is used by the Moody Bible Institute, Leighton Ford Ministries, Campus Crusade For Christ, ***Institute in Basic Life Principles, and the Institute for Scientific & Biblical Research.***!!!!!! He has also written more than 60 books and is a regular platform speaker at Southern Baptist State Conferences. His videos were seen by more than 30,000 pastors in 1992, and he has spoken in more than 700 churches, from almost every denomination."

What do you think of that Ray Comfort's literature is used by two of Bill Gothard's organizations!

Sam said...

Another interesting thing about Ray Comfort that I noticed on one of the way of the master videos - Hell's best kept secret - watch Ray's hands. He seems to like using that pyramid shape a lot...

http://wayofthemaster.com/watchepisodes.shtml

Anonymous said...

Ray Comfort, the "lordship salvation" false teacher, ecumenicalist, and general posterior-kisser of anyone that will give him the time of day and promotion of his false gospel materials. He and Gothard being connected is not even remotely a surprise to me. I know of a family that supports both those guys, and the family is as unfortunately deceived as any you'll ever meet.

Anonymous said...

This blog is full of conjecture. You people have too much time on your hands.

Bible Believer said...

Some should take the time to research things.

So what do you consider conjecture?

Anonymous said...

I have 11 children, I'm not quiver full, I've read Gothard books, and I'm not Catholic... but it seems to me that the comments on this page do not reflect the love of Christ, or his testimony. They appear to be gossip and back-biting. Some of us just feel challenged by the Lord to take this step of faith; i.e. no birth control. Why can't that be as accepted as the faith to do vocational ministry, or missionary work.

Anonymous said...

I am so saddened by this specific blog post as well as the comments that followed. It is our jobs as followers of Christ to love, love and love some more even when it gets difficult. Its sad to see/read how the Duggars (who are only human by the way)are being ripped apart by those who claim to be Christians!!! They are still our brothers and sisters in Christ. It is not our job to judge them but only to judge their fruit! Lots of judging on how they parent yet I'm guessing that none of you have stepped into their home physically to spend time with them and then make a call on the fruit they bear. It is time to stand up as followers of Christ and do the right thing and show love. Those that are not believers see you and your old sin nature (the one you are to die too)devouring those who are also followers of Christ! What does this show them? Does it show them that we are a people devoted to loving Jesus first and then loving our neighbors next? NO! It's time to grow....

Bible Believer said...

Any Duggar that has been truly born again is a brother and sister in Christ. However I pray they come out of the Gothard cult, and into truth. Let's pray that they find the truth and come out of deception. Gothard, Dominionism, fame and politics and the things of this world are devouring them not those warning them about Gothardism. Have you visited their home? That was kind of an odd statement.

betsy kettle said...

I see a lot of concern here re: religious parsing. My concern, whether it be perceived as Christian or not, is two-fold: I) I have not once seen Michelle Dugger, beyond breastfeeding, spending any time with a particular child. II)The older girls are consistently carrying out parental responsibilities, not simply "doing their share," as is seen in any large family. my purpose is here not to judge, but advocate for children of God whom
He expects to be nurtured and loved for their own sake, not as tools for an agenda.

Bible Believer said...

I agree Betsy. I find myself thinking the older girls have not left home or gotten married because they are bonded to the younger children as parents not as siblings. They may even worry about the children being left alone.

Rhonda said...

I find myself saddened at some of the remarks here. People who say they are of faith and make remarks like you have is disheartening.
As for Michelle having so many children, she has stated that her and Jim Bob left it in the hands of the Lord on the number of children he has blessed them with. The Lord has seen fit to give them 19. She doesn't have a syndrome nor is she a myarter.
As for letting America be present for Jubille' s funeral, that was her choice. We didn't see the whole funeral only highlights. Some people enjoy seeing and being apart of their lives. This was and is a part of life. It showed that there is bad in their lives.
It seems to me that jealousy is a factor in this posting and comments. We can't pretend to know everything about them because we aren't there nor do we know them personally. Remember do unto others as you wish to be treated.

Anonymous said...

Here's the deal. Kardashians or Duggars for family television? I have been to many Gothard conferences, my brother graduated from Alert and I did wisdom booklets. My family dressed respectfully at the gatherings and the rest of my life im in jeans and shorts. The bottom line is their raising their children thats its not all about them. So many of us have one child and spoil them rotten. Thats whats wrong with our country. Weve stopped following Gods Word and become a selfish generation. So far the Duggars/Bates kids have turned out well and have demonstrated a clean living family that believes in glorifying God on tv...which is our purpose in life. I was raised by an over protecting mother for sure but I still respect the wisdom of Mr. Gothard. I actually stood in line with him once for lunch and he asked my parents if he detected "screech marks" and they all three had a good laugh. Bottom line...I didnt want to come but I did and am using the things I learned then in my own family today. God bless the Duggars. I dont think their perfect but I have a lot of respect for their choices.

Susan Foley said...

How many children these people have and how they raise them is their business (unless the children are being abused of course). It's their business until they make it our business by taking the whole thing on national TV.

When I was growing up I knew many families with 6, 7, 8 and sometimes more children. Some of these families functioned well, some not, just like families with fewer children. Some of us do well, some not so well. Having so many children inevitably means getting the older ones to help out with the little ones, which is great training for future parenthood if you think about it. I can't see anything wrong with that.

I certainly do not agree with some of their theology, but I don't feel impelled to try to straighten them out.

Anonymous said...

I think the Duggars and every other person who believes they should have children for the sake of having children should remember that God said "Be fruitful and multiply." How can you be fruitful if you are simply multiplying without thinking of the consequences? You aren't. God wants quality and quantity. He mentions quality ("fruitful") first. That should be everyone's priority.

Anonymous said...

i wouldn't be surprised jim bob been messing around behind michelle's back

Anonymous said...

anybody that says how they raise theior children is their busines is a nutball. if you put child abuse on tv, do you expect people to not comment about it? Its there for all to see. The older siblings are raising the younger ones. How on earth could Michelle (the mother) give enough attention to 19 kids? The last pregnancy she had put her life at risk, as well as her daughters life. The Duggars openly endorse a cult leaders book. In the book the author(s) direct them to whack a baby with a ruler if they crawl off a blanket. Along with other things. Nobody watches child abuse and doesnt comment

Bible Believer said...

I agree, if you are going to put your family on national TV you should expect some comments.

Gothard was even exposed recently for inappropriate behavior and still the Duggars are signing their kids up for those Alert Academy meetings and more.

Why wasn't this enough to wake a few up?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/bill-gothard-denies-sexual-intent-in-hugs-foot-contact-with-young-ladies-in-statement-following-resignation-118207/

Would be closet Jesuit? Forced to live celibate engaging in odd behavior.

The older ones have raised the younger ones. I worry about some of the younger ones who look neglected and fade into the group. Jenny and Jordyn, I think both will have serious problems from being overlooked. I can tell the older daughters now are going through the overly legalistic courtship by their parents, hoping to marry the first boy that will have them, to escape. I found the meetings and behavior there to be very odd as well.

KimNC said...

Hi there, my journey on google (LOL) brought me to your website because I've been disturbed at Pat Robertson's latest comments of any Christian that believes the world to be 6000 years old must be deaf, blind and dumb. Then got wrapped up in your site and agree with what I've read so far. Thank you for being so diligent in uncovering things and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide.

When reading about the Duggars, it really hit me that whether these people are good intentioned or not, that Satan is using "Christians in the media" in a big way. Robertson has a huge following, and sadly, so do the Duggars. I looked up "Gothard cult" and found this recovery website, http://www.recoveringgrace.org/ full of stories such as you usually find within cults. It's an interesting site to say the least, and they even have a tab with correspondence between themselves and Gothard.

I've been so wrapped up in work and church that haven't been watching much TV (not that that's a bad thing) until Sunday morning when my son had on ESPN and whole NFL Michael Sam debacle came on, and earlier that week I learned of the young woman that had recorded herself having an abortion to show others it's nothing to be ashamed of. Needless to say, my heart is heavy and reading this entry you wrote shows me that Satan has really been in our face lately, but stuff like this he's proving he can still be super subtle. We MUST be aware like the apostles warned us, beware of the false teachers in the end times.

Anywho... look forward to reading more of your stuff.

Anonymous said...

I've had fun reading these older posts! The posters who predicted the Duggar girls would NEVER marry or attain any useful education should hold off on any furthur "clairvoyant" work! LOL!! Just as so many mean spirited commenters will KNOW how the marriages will fail, the girls will rebound into the "wonderful, normal" hedonistic world that supposedly is SO much better, etc, no one ever comes back here to say they were WRONG! IMO it's time you all start DOING for others instead of hoping these people FAIL in their Christian lives! The Duggars and other Christians know this sinful world will hate them as the Bible tells us that! So IF you are being critical (and worse!) of those Christians who are simply trying to raise kids as God instructs, and/or just waiting for one or more to fail, not only should you be ashamed of yourself but you should find something better to do with ur time! We don't know how long we have on this earth so its best we be busy doing the Lord's work and let Him JUDGE others.

Bible Believer said...

Never claimed to be a clairvoyant, though I think I was definitely on to something, when I said, the Quiverfuls would be switching to ARRANGED MARRIAGES. It's looking very "arranged" lately.

Jill said, "I'm in love with a man I never met!" and he just happened to be Daddy Duggar's prayer partner, delivered on a plate.

Near strangers meeting each other basically but in that case, they seem to share some true friendship and attraction.

Jessa looks bored by Ben [hopefully they are just nervous in front of cameras] but hanging in there to get out of the house.

Where did I say I want the Duggar girls to fail? I hope they end up happily married despite the endless strictures their parents put on them and come out of the cult their parents got them tied up with.

God bless all of them, I want them to be happy.

Jennifer Kerr said...

I think the getting married is a chance to escape in their minds...but I think daddy realizes the baby factory is done too. Probably decided to marry a couple off for a storyline. I like that Jill seems to be turning to the crunchy side.

Anonymous said...

I am Catholic and can say most Catholics and non-Catholic Christians I know do you condoms or other forms of contraception. While, women are still not allowed in ordained roles, we read in churches, we give out sermons, we passout Communion, we have nuns. We are principals and teachers of Catholic Schools. As a Catholic women who holds 2 degrees, yeah it does irritate me to be compared to the Duggars. I have 2 older siblings not 18 older siblings, my parents both work, all my siblings and I are educated, while the Duggar kids clearly are not. I can wear pants, shorts, dresses, bikinis to the beach which the Duggar girls obviously don't have that Choice. I can date whoever I please which the Duggars girls can't. To me the Duggars are a cult not Christian. They certainly do not represent any Christian Catholic or Protestant family that I know of or I am friends with. If anyone would like to comment or have a discussion about the Duggars please email me at jesus__saves__me@hotmail.com. GOD BLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 1.Haughty eyes, 2. a lying tongue, And 3. hands that shed innocent blood, 4. A heart that devises wicked plans, 5. Feet that run rapidly to evil, 6. A false witness who utters lies, And 7. one who spreads strife among brothers.
Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions
Proverbs 11:12-13 He who despises his neighbor lacks sense, But a man of understanding keeps silent. He who goes about as a talebearer reveals secrets, But he who is trustworthy conceals a matter.
Proverbs12:16,23 A fool’s anger is known at once, But a prudent man conceals dishonor. A prudent man conceals knowledge, But the heart of fools proclaims folly.
Proverbs 13:3 The one who guards his mouth preserves his life; The one who opens wide his lips comes to ruin.
Proverbs 16:27-28 A worthless man digs up evil, While his words are like scorching fire. A perverse man spreads strife, And a slanderer separates intimate friends.
Proverbs 17:9 He who conceals a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter separates intimate friends.
Proverbs 19:11 A man’s discretion makes him slow to anger, And it is his glory to overlook a transgression.
Proverbs 19:28 A rascally witness makes a mockery of justice, And the mouth of the wicked spreads iniquity.
Proverbs 20:19 He who goes about as a slanderer reveals secrets, Therefore do not associate with a gossip.
Proverbs 21:23 He who guards his mouth and his tongue, Guards his soul from troubles.
Proverbs 25:9-10, 23 Argue your case with your neighbor, And do not reveal the secret of another,Or he who hears it will reproach you, And the evil report about you will not pass away. The north wind brings forth rain, And a backbiting tongue, an angry countenance.
Proverbs 26:20-28 For lack of wood the fire goes out, And where there is no whisperer, contention quiets down.
21 Like charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, So is a contentious man to kindle strife.
22 The words of a whisperer are like dainty morsels, And they go down into the innermost parts of the body.
23 Like an earthen vessel overlaid with silver dross Are burning lips and a wicked heart.
24 He who hates disguises it with his lips, But he lays up deceit in his heart.
25 When he speaks graciously, do not believe him, For there are seven abominations in his heart.
26 Though his hatred covers itself with guile, His wickedness will be revealed before the assembly.
SOME NEW TESTAMENT VERSES
Matthew 15:19 “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
Romans 1:29-30 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips[whisperers], slanderers[speaks against], haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
2 Corinthians 12:20 For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders [speak against], gossip [whisperer], arrogance, disturbances; (Paul was concerned that the saints were involved in these sins.)
1 Timothy 5:13 At the same time they also learn to be idle, as they go around from house to house; and not merely idle, but also gossips [whisperers] and busybodies, talking about things not proper to mention.



Bible Believer said...

Warning about a Dominionist cult is not raising up strife. If anything I am glad Gothard has been exposed so the Duggar children will be far more safe.

Anonymous said...

Some Christian fathers will even marry off their daughters to Christian guys who are very controlling, overprotective, and bossy like them.

Anonymous said...

Ben is SCARY!
What father would allow his daughter to go with a man who went out of his way to "meet a Duggar girl" at a church hours away from his home (Ben really needs to delete his Facebook)!?
And having his sisters "teach" Jessa his favorite meals!?
Now even more work has been tossed on poor Jana and Jinger because of "Jessa's head being in the clouds".
Their courtship has not been sweet and lovey like TLC and the family has tried to spin it, it has been down right creepy!
It is so sad they are using marriage as their escape. Jessa more so because Ben seems way too keen on being the new Jim-Bob.

And "dear" Cousin Amy is sure as heck not going to help any of her cousins. That would rock her showboat too much.

I stopped watching when Jim-Bob actively sought out a specialized fertility doctor for his almost 50yr old wife!
Did he not forget Michelle and Josie almost DIED and their last daughter lost her life in the womb!?
A true husband would go out of his way to make sure his wife's life was never put in danger again!!

Anonymous said...

I truly hope that the Duggar children and all the others that have/had contact with Gothard are safe.
However, the ties run deeper than most can ever imagine.
Whilst he might not be around HQ anymore, he is more than welcome in the homes of the IBLP "VIP's".
And them and many others (shockingly, non-ATI homeschoolers are standing up for him because they see it as an attack by the "unGodly" outside world) are still standing up for this man.
saying such things as....
We ALL have "moral failures", so it is wrong of us to judge BG.
We all must pray for BG. For Jesus is the only true judge and justice.
or
"God uses us all, as imperfect as we are."
and when they run out of tosh like that to say. They turn to blaming the victim.
Even going as far to say they must have fallen prey to TV (ironic, Eh?) or unclean, wordly music.