Monday, October 3, 2011

Will Any Calvary Chapel Pastors or Leaders Really Repent?

Contrary to Roger Oakland's recent call for Calvary Chapel pastors to repent, I do not expect hordes of them to do so. Such an article seems odd to me, it's like expecting the Pope to do away with the Mass and give up his castle and gold and actually start giving it to the poor. It would be "nice" but perhaps my view of Calvary Chapel is very different. I believe it was a rotten fruit from the start and a set up to deceive: an apostasty trap as it were. If you recognize Rome is rotten, well the next step is recognizing the daughters of Rome. Calvary Chapel with it's laundry list of false teachings is connected to earlier deceivers and is a daughter itself. The guy who asks "Why is Rome Targeting Calvary Chapel" has got it wrong, Calvary Chapel is part of the deception. Seeing the hordes of Billy Graham and Lausanne supporting Calvary Chapel pastors as all well-meaning honest befuddled types just isn't doing it anymore. There are those who are out and out wolves. Why do so many CC pastors consort with top ecumenists?

Now this is not saying that someone can repent and be born again--anyone can, as I came out of my own false churches. Even the worse sinner on the planet has salvation in Jesus Christ available to them if they repent.

For someone to be even in a Calvary Chapel and pastoring one and to remain there, they are accepting false pentecostalism, false pre-trib rapture teachings, Christian Zionism, pro-Middle Eastern crusades and the endless false teachings of Chuck Smith. They would need to repent and totally be born again, and actually walk away from the whole mess and related para-church organizations. Is there even one Calvary Chapel pastor that has ever left the system and started to honestly talk about it on a blog or elsewhere who didn't become more liberal?

How many Calvary Chapel pastors are "insider" types? I doubt they just take anyone off the street who says they are born again. With all the Cove visits and dress rules, my opinion is that independent thinkers are not allowed. Dissent is extrordinarily rare. I have not seen any speaking against the system Calvary Chapel preachers, and have gone to many of their websites, contrary to those who claim there are great numbers of Calvary Chapel preachers standing up against what is happening. I keep seeing this repeated all over the place, but no actual EVIDENCE. Hey I would like to be wrong but I doubt they'd last two minutes without having their church disfellowshiped. By the way, I do not just not want vague speeches about the Emergent movement and cults which are allowed in Calvary Chapel, but someone exposing Lausanne, and more and the false teachings of Chuck Smith. If someone would like to link to an example of this, you are welcome to in the comments. I would LOVE to see it. But even then as I have learned one has to be careful.

Sadly I found out Roger Oakland, was still doing conferences with Calvary Chapel pastors this year. Pastor Chik Chikeles heads up Calvary Chapel St. Paul. Can one say they have truly left a church system and still be working with those who are within it?

When I left the Catholic church, I did not hang out with priests and bishops. When I left the UU church, I wrote the UU pastor one letter saying I believed in God and rejected UUism and didn't go have a conference with UU pastors or invite one to speak at a meeting I was holding. What does it mean for someone to say, "I have left a church", and then invite one of the pastors of one of their big city churches to come and speak at their organization's meeting?






There was someone on this blog who commented on Roger Oakland still being involved with conferences and Calvary Chapel pastors, but their postings were befuddled with too many side issues. I am sorry I did not listen sooner but I am only human. There is part of all of us who want to believe the best of people. Tired of the sheer number of hirelings, I wanted to believe one guy had truly gone against the stream but as I have said on this blog never totally trust anyone 100% except for Jesus Christ. That means even test everything you read on my website too. I am just an average person exposing what I find out, some of which is NOT easy to find out. People of course will fail, all of us, but when you see a pattern is when you know something is very OFF.

Roger Oakland also went to this conference this year, I have heard the name Caryl Matrisciana before. In doing research for this blog on other things, her name has cropped up multiple times before.



The origins of the SCP are grounded in the Christian counterculture movement (also known as the Jesus Movement or Jesus People) of the late 1960s. In 1968 some staff members of Campus Crusade for Christ conceived of the need to contextualize the Christian message for radical and revolutionary university students. The key figures were Jack Sparks and his wife, Patrick and Karry Matrisciana (also known as Caryl Matrisciana), Fred and Jan Dyson, Weldon and Barbara Hartenburg.[1] In April 1969 Sparks and his colleagues commenced their ministry at the University of California, Berkeley, and along the famous street in Berkeley, Telegraph Avenue.[citation needed]


This blog has exposed problems with Campus Crusade for Christ before. Webwide that is one organization that has been connected to everything ecumenical for YEARS!

More here:

For the past 23 years Caryl was the Creative and Marketing Director for Jeremiah Films, a Southern California film company, a leader in documentary film production and video distribution. She was instrumental in the research and production of many of the films covering a myriad subjects and also narrated many of them.


Caryl's 2003 video release Supernatural Powers: The Battle between Good and Evil was praised as the continuum to her 1990 cutting-edge documentary entitled Halloween: Trick or Treat. As well as co-producing and researching the latter, Caryl co-hosted it, the first of a thirteen part series, with Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel


[snip]

In 1975, Caryl founded Deo Gloria Trust's counter cult organization in London, England, acting as its chief cult researcher. She became recognized as one of Europe's most prominent cult experts supplying information to BBC radio and TV, and the ITV. She furnished facts to published authors and journalists for numerous periodicals worldwide including Newsweek, The London Times, Observer, Telegraph, Guardian, and London's Evening Standard. Caryl met regularly and spoke in the House of Commons with Britain's Members of Parliament and government officials. At the request of European Members of Parliament, she provided vital research and information, which contributed to the passing of the European Resolution on cults in 1984.


Caryl organized international conferences in England and Europe to educate those concerned about the social dangers posed by cults. The outcome of these and other conferences where she spoke, her public speaking at schools and churches, her interaction with media, and involvement with various committees (e.g. The 1978 International Conference in Pattaya, Thailand, sponsored by the Lausanne Commission on World Evangelism) qualified Caryl to establish numerous parent and church-based support groups for cult victims and their families, throughout the UK, Europe and America. Caryl's more than 20 years of personal experiences in counseling hundreds of cult members and their families has enabled many of them to re-establish their lives and relationships after involvement with coercive and manipulative groups.


This person definitely is high up in the "Christian" circles. She is acceptable in the halls of power obviously. Her working with Lausanne is of concern unless she has repented of this and her work for a well known "Christian" movie company, also can be researched. Now ask yourself this, if the big names are still inviting you to their conferences, are you considered an "outsider"? Look at who Jeremiah Films is connected with.



I can see keeping old friends, but some of this is worrisome to me. Now my beliefs regarding separation may be different, I can understand keeping friends from your old church that hopefully you keep warning--often God may even have you end friendships as I lost some friends leaving false churches, but doing seminars with them, and the rest, well, I just do not get it.

Now a change of subject:

Let me ask readers a question, would you be OK with this picture if it was on the banner of a blog and saw it paired with two pictures of bloody thorns and bloody feet? This was coupled with a photo of someone with one of their eyes darkened out too. Did any of you see this on those websites? These are not run by Roger Oakland, but someone else who has written for his website [posting link for information] and Roger Oakland has linked to these sites. Was I overreacting to be upset by this picture? I do not think so. If Roger Oakland sees this, hey maybe he just never noticed, perhaps he can ask this person why they would choose such a picture on their blog.










Why on earth would any "Christian" use such a horrible picture? The cross is stabbing right in the middle of the Bible and covering it in blood. Paired with two other as gorey as they could make it pictures, I was horrified the first day I saw this. Hasn't this guy ever read Hebrews 6:6?

Even if someone is exposing the "Jesuits" too, that doesn't mean giving them 100% trust. I will say this, finding out these things was very disappointing. These weren't things I wanted to find out.

21 comments:

Labby said...

It is discouraging, however, we are all in this together. We will continually have to shorten our "lists" of who isn't a deceiver, but I do feel there are those who aren't knowingly deceiving, but are at different points in their walk as a Christians. They will fail at certain things. Oakland has done some amazing work.

And BB, you should never feel as though you are responsible for knowing everything or guiding people because all you can do is shine a light on areas you see, but each believer still needs to rely on the Holy Spirit and scripture to navigate. Don't feel the weight of people leaning on you because I don't believe that is right for those of us who read your blog to put on you. It is a burden too much for one.

We will all walk together in helping each other by exposing or correcting and not everything is at it seems. Thanks for all your hard work.

That website with the blood is gross - probably a guy's website : ( I'm not sure, but I'll use that REVERENCE word again - it does not show reverence towards the word of God it would seem.

Bible Believer said...

I think there are many ordinary people and Christians who simply do not know things, or time is needed for them to learn. Even seeing through Christian Zionism and Pre-Trib took me some time, so I am open to that. I know people are at different parts of their journey, new Christians will know less then others, etc.

With Roger Oakland, I'll let people read what I have shown here and make their own minds up. You are right that one person cannot know everything, all I can share is what I know. You are right each believer needs to rely on the Holy Spirit and scripture to navigate. Thanks for saying that, it is too much of a burden for one person. Thanks for your compliments.

Yes that bloody stuff is gross. Having a cross stab a Bible and make it bloody seem to me to be an offront against God's Word. Spritually there is a lot wrong with that picture.

news4themasses said...

I agree that it didn't seem right to see Roger Oakland's name at CC conferences since he 'came out' against CC. Last New Year Roger spoke at Calvary Chapel Tri City in Tempe, AZ. I saw bits and pieces on line, since I had already come to understand the depths of the CULT that CC is and left that particular CC the summer of 2010. During the live broadcast, Roger did mention that CC has it's pope, "Chuck Smith" and spoke against Billy Graham. Following the live show, the recorded tape "disappeared" or was "recorded poorly" and thus not available. Following that New Years mini show, Roger was cast away from CCTC. I don't know why CCTC disassociated from Roger Oakland, but I'm sure they would love to explain it. There are many MANY "discernment" sites that Avoid linking Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel to Billy Graham/Lausanne and C. Peter Wagner. There is a clear link between NAR and the cohorts and CC. But for some odd reason even the Discernment sites won't touch the subject. Is it because they are all in fear of the dreaded Black List that results when anyone goes to expose CC? Is it because their ministry that is dependent on CC conference $$ is at risk? Is it because they are deceived themselves or because they are willful and complicit deceivers as well? I don't know the answers, and I highly DOUBT anyone will have the cajones to answer. To answer your question about any Dove Club members leaving or repenting, NO I haven't seen ONE leave. I've heard poor sheep try to cover for their pastor when it comes to this issue and say that they (Sr. CC Pastors) are waiting for papa smurf to die to move away from CC and I think that's a pathetic excuse. You either FEAR THE LORD YOUR GOD AND LEAVE THE DAUGHTER OF ROME or you are one too. I left. It took time and caused pain but once I knew I had to act.

Bible Believer said...

I am glad my own sojourn in a CC church was short but glad you were able to leave and figure out the depths of the deception. So that tape is not findable? I would like to hear it. So they disassociated from him? That said, even if there are those exposing things? What of God's commandment to COME OUT OF HER. Working on a religious basis, with those who still are connected to Calvary Chapel that is a problem. You are right about the many discernment websites that while they warn of some things leave a LOT else out. With Lausanne, can't tell you how many ministries expose Billy Graham and either don't see that huge hulking elephant in the room or choose to leave it out. I would think some of this has to do with the world evangelical movement, expose some unsafe areas, that would expose the interconnectiveness of these para-church and other organizations, and well, you wouldn't be invited too many conferences. This is why Calvary Chapel can have endless conferences and more that warn about the Emergents, and other groups because those are "safe" areas and also lull the church members to sleep thinking they are in a discerning biblical church. Of course they are NOT the only guilty ones, its happening in a lot of evangelical churches. I guess we can't know for sure with each individual if they are deceived themselves, thinking they are to embrace everyone who call's themselves a "born again" Christian or knowing deceivers. {Deceived by the WORLD CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT} It's hard to tell regarding who is knowing or who is not, [well outside the ones who blatantly mark themselves] but when you see the same names cropping up all over the place and the endless networks it makes you wonder about how many are knowing "insiders". I've never heard of one Calvary Chapel pastor leaving and exposing the cult either. Seems odd, there are people who have left as individuals but never one I know of who served any higher church role or as a pastor. I have heard the endless excuses for the silence, the "good" pastors are waiting til Chuck Smith is gone, they need their salaries, they are warning people of the same things--though you never see one thing on any blog, or audio, that steps away from the 'safe' subjects like the Emergent movement, and right now it just doesn't make any sense to me. If you know you are in a daughter, you get out, you do not kanoodle with it. Yes there is sacrifice in following God, but why would you even want to be in a compromised church or HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, if you were desiring to fulfill His will.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks news4themasses. So he spoke at the CC Tri-City in Tempe too within the last 18 months? He left in Nov 2010, I think that could be covered under keeping prior engagements even if I do not agree with that. I guess I am more worried about the later involvement of Calvary Chapel pastors. [anything dated 2011 and beyond]

How does one "LEAVE" a church and then have some of it's pastors still work with you? How does that work? That's like me having a Catholic bishop invite me in to do a lecture after Mass exposing the Pope and the new world order. {I wouldn't do it!} http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/conferences.html

I saw this list of conferences. The Learn to Discern Conference is listed on it. http://discerning-the-times.org/index.html Here is another conference: April 8-9, 2011 - Saskatoon, Sask., CANADA Guest Speakers - T.A. McMahon, John Plantz, Henry Morris, Roger Oakland, Thomas Ice Discerning The Times Bible Conference Saskatoon, Sask., Canada For more information visit Discerning The Times Bible Conference 2001 [sic] --they meant 2011 Thomas Ice has worked with Tim LaHaye...

What is odd, is that Caryl Mastricana lady shared a conference too, [THIS YEAR] with Jackie Alnor who is an apologist for Chuck Smith.

http://www.apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS/TrueChurch.htm

http://www.apostasyalert.org/

Warren Smith and Ray Yungen, have spoken at Calvary Chapels as late as 2010. Do not know if they have disengaged themselves or not.

September 19, 2010 - Hemet, California, USA Guest Speaker: Warren Smith Sunday Morning Service - 10:30AM Location: Calvary Chapel Hemet, CA (Steve Johnson) 26121 Hemet St., Hemet, CA 92544 Phone: 951-927-6117 Website: http://www.cchemet.com/ Map: Calvary Chapel Hemet More information at New Age To Grace September 18, 2010 - Pasadena, California, USA Guest Speakers - Warren Smith and Ray Yungen Saturday Conference: 9:00AM-3:00PM Calvary Chapel Pasadena, CA (Pastor Xavier Reis) Location: Calvary Chapel Pasadena, CA 2200 East Colorado Boulevard, Pasadena, California 91107 More information at New Age To Grace and A Time of Departing Ministries

I do not get how that works...leave a church and you are still doing conferences with those who are involved with that church or working with pastors who are still in that church?

I would feel different if some of these guys were PUBLICALLY speaking out or trying to disengage their churches from the system, but haven't seen it. if it's happening, post in the comments.

Theres too much "inner circle" stuff happening here.

Leah said...

I knew something was wrong with Calvary Chapel when I saw Chuck Smith on TBN, then I said to myself, forget that church, they just brought in apostasy.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Leah, yes seeing Chuck Smith and others on TBN, told me something was wrong then. I am glad you realized it too. Sadly they are not the only one. The ecumenical "world christian" system has most of them now.

Kayfabe said...

Yeah my brother in the lord had written light house trails some time ago on why Roger was at Calvary Chapel Chino, he got no response. I saw the name Xavier Ries above and I used to like him but then I found some treacherous stuff he did to my friends sister and husband, things that even some worldly people wouldn't do.

news4themasses said...

There are some you named in your reply to me that KNOW the information that we know and continue to speak together. Take a look see at Compass International. You'll see who's connected to who and understand how they continue to circuit speak together. I just went over to Gary Kah's site yesterday for some bizarre reason (I never go there) but he has a letter asking the sheep to pray for Michelle Bachman! Lol, the NAR sweetheart herself, graduate of Liberty University! Wow, also Brannon Howse was on the docket for a speaking engagement at CC Appleton this Sept. Brannon co-labored with David Barton & Phyllis Schaffly for decades. Howse mocked the book The Family, and I can see why all his hombres are apart of it! Too much, too much. I guess I shld blog it rather than take your space here! Sorry

Anonymous said...

http://www.compass.org/

Bible Believer said...

Hey that's ok news4themasses, post here any time. I do not get time to post everything I notice, wish I had many more hours of day to blog. But Gary Kah who I thought at one time was a great exposer of new world order agendas, I saw someone reporting online he had gone to Council for National Policy meetings:

Site here:
http://watch.pair.com/gpm-facilitators-add.html

and

http://watch.pair.com/gpm-facilitators-add.html#kah

Berit Kjos's name popping up wasn't good to me either.

I am not surprised that Gary Kah is now telling the sheeple to pray for Michell Bachmann, well Michelle Bachmann, is involved with patriarchy groups and is in with CNP as well.

Liberal websites but they expose the CNP connections to Bachmann:

http://www.mnprogressiveproject.com/diary/4600/michele-bachmann-and-the-council-for-national-policy-again

http://www.dumpbachmann.com/2005/08/bachmann-contributors-linked-to.html

Brannon Howse I consider to be a deceiver, if he was mocking the book The Family seems that was about damage control.

It's like a spider web, or lets say a tree, with tons of VULTURES.

Isa 34:15 There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate

Bible Believer said...

Had someone tell me about this conference...[this is in 2012, in upcoming months]

http://www.titus213hope.com/PDF/2012_Brochure.pdf

To me it is disturbing that Roger Oakland is STILL working with those who still are involved with Calvary Chapel- and top of that list is Chuck Missler. Chuck Missler has taught false doctrine and still admits his strong connections to CC right on his website...

"Chuck Smith is my personal pastor, serves on our Board of Directors, and it was his tutoring, trust and sponsorship over the past several decades that also has led to our present ministry."

http://www.khouse.org/pages/the_joy_of_teaching_gods_word/chapter_4/

David Hocking is another speaker at this conference...

David Hocking was another Calvary Chapel pastor and makes the Calvary Chapel circuit tour...

All very disturbing...

So as I asked in the original article how can someone actually have LEFT a church if they are still doing seminars with all it's "insiders?

Then there is Chuck Missler's purported connection to the Council on National Policy.

Lynn said...

The latest Lighthouse Trails Newsletter (November 8, 2011) contains this about Roger:


Ministry Update from Roger Oakland – Heading to Africa

Roger Oakland with "his children" in Myanmar:

On November 8th, I will be leaving for a two week trip that will take me to Durban South Africa and Suna, Kenya. While Understand The Times is mostly recognized for our role in exposing deception and apostasy in the last days church, we are also committed to taking the gospel to the far corners of the world and coming alongside those who are serious about defending the faith.

In Durban, we will be spending time with David Meisner and his family, missionaries from Saskatchewan. Understand The Times Canada supports David and the work they are doing among the poor and homeless there.

In Kenya, we will be ministering at the Contending for Faith Discipleship Center founded by missionary Joetta Smith and Kenyan Pastor Achilla. Lighthouse Trails, our publisher, has been very involved with this group, and we feel this is a good use of our time and energy . We will be speaking to pastors and church leaders, encouraging them to teach the Word of God in these days when the world is headed down the road of apostasy by many false teachers. As I have not made such a lengthy trip by myself since my illness, I am asking for those who care about the ministry of Understand The Times to pray.

This past year has brought a number of changes to the ministry of Understand The Times as directed by the Lord. Some doors have been shut while others have been opened. While I had spent over two decades speaking mostly on platforms with Calvary Chapel associated speakers, it became apparent that this could no longer be possible.

The Bible states that we are not to have anything to do with those who cover up darkness. We had no choice but to move on to where spiritual leaders allow the light of the Word to expose the darkness. In December, when I return from Africa, I will be speaking at three Independent Baptist Churches in New York City. The pastors have asked me to deal with Last Days apostasy and the unfolding ecumenical movement.

We are thankful for those who have contacted us and have encouraged us to be faithful to this vision. There have been supporters we do not know, nor have we met, who have sent financial support, which has allowed us to make this trip to Africa.

In January and February, I will be going to Manila and then to Myanmar to share the gospel with the poor and encourage others to do the same. As the Lord provides, we are still committed to supporting over 100 poor and orphaned children in Myanmar. We believe that God cares about orphans and widows, and Understand The Times will do what we can do and facilitate those who can help to do so also.

While I am away in Africa, Lighthouse Trails Publishing will release my latest book called Let There Be Light. This book is written to share how God has worked in my life using me as his vessel to share the gospel worldwide. I think you will find this book a book that you will want to read and share with others.

Sincerely,

Roger Oakland
Understand the Times, International

Lighthouse Trails note: We want to thank all those who donated toward the trip Roger will be taking this week to Kenya. Some of these donations are going toward feeding and seating the several hundred people who are expected to show up at the meetings where Roger will be ministering.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for sharing.

Of course seeing this...

"While I had spent over two decades speaking mostly on platforms with Calvary Chapel associated speakers, it became apparent that this could no longer be possible."

who *leaves* a church and is allowed to speak at its different churches 18 months after? Is that an odd question for me to ask?

And does this mean he is going to part ways with Missler? and Calvary Chapel pastors at Bible conferences?

Is this conference still on with Calvary Chapel pastor Hocking and Chuck Missler?

You telling me after all the articles warning about Missler, Roger Oakland still hasn't got that memo either?

http://www.titus213hope.com/schedule.htm

Nothing But the Truth said...

To set the record straight, the March 3012 conference is not a Calvary Chapel sponsored conference. I believe the churches are Independent Baptist. We have to realize that there can be some cross-over that can happen innocently. But the appearance with Missler is another matter. There is no way he should do this and to do so belies all that he purports to stand for and reeks of hypocricy.

As for the CC movement, God always has a remnant. There are pastors within the movement who are not fully aware of everything or are in denial. Let's not judge them so harshly, but instead we should pray for that remnant to wake up and come out and be separate. Yes, the movement is corrupt with corrupt beginnings, but God has used the movement in many ways. But that time has come to a close and it is time for action.

Bible Believer said...

You are right NOthing but the Truth, that is one being held at other churches, but it is still with Missler.
Hocking is supposed to be there too...according to the website..

http://www.aroadinthewilderness.org/uploads/2012_Conference_Brochure1.pdf

I agree that God has a remnant too, it's just that, well where are the dissenting Calvary Chapel preachers? People keep telling me they are out there, but haven't heard even *one* come out yet. I don't think that is being judgemental. I just do not know of one who has spoken out, and there has been resounding silence even for what Roger Oakland exposed from the pastor crowd.

Anonymous said...

I used to go to a CC in NC .. pretty long ways from the mother ship :) And, I am sure that each CC is autonomous. I think though, from research, it seems that the CCs in Cal and West coast are more influenced by Costa Mesa. But, I keep reading on this blog about Rome.. My pastor spoke out against the Pope and Idolatrous Catholic teachings.. He spoke out against a lot of things. I think you have to be careful with it because they are not linked up to Chuck or Costa Mesa. They use the Moses model (which is a strength and a weakness) and the Pastors and Elders have the distinctive s in common but the churches are not all the same. All that aside.. Its like this.. I don't know how it was truly founded, But, even if they meant it for evil, God has used it for good. I have been so blessed by my time at the church I was at. God is Sovereign.

Bible Believer said...

I know many CCs are consider autonomous, but I am curious, do you think your old CC pastor would be a bit upset to find out the knights of Malta-Boykin-top Calvary Chapel connections? Was he concerned at all about Chuck Smith sharing a stage with Rick Warren at Harvest Fest acouple years ago? Even if they are NOT linked to Chuck or Costa Mesa, WHY THE SILENCE? Surely some of them have concerns. I know even many of the CC preachers and teachers that speak out against the Emergent movement, sometimes include speaking out against Rome, but what does it all mean, if the church itself is involved in the Rome-run World Evangelical Movement, has connections to Lausanne and the other things exposed? Even Chuck Smith recently came out to say Catholics are Christians too. Add in the other false teachings and its a problem. I agree God can use even bad things for good. Perhaps a few got truly saved in CC, though hopefully later learned the truth about CC and left.

I have not seen one CC pastor speak out about or the things exposed in CC. Roger Oakland, is one that supposedly "left" but is still doing seminars with the likes of Missler as far as I know. As I wrote elsewhere I keep hearing about all these supposedly "dissenting" Calvary Chapel pastors, but where are they?

The resounding silence speaks for itself.

Bible Believer said...

If any dissenting Calvary Chapel pastors, who have realized Chuck Smith is an ecumenicist and that Boykin is a Knights of Malta see this blog, the forum is here for you to post.

I have traveled Calvary Chapel websites, and have NOT seen one yet, where they do not toe the party line.

I have asked for evidence for the existence of these guys for months.

Anonymous said...

The problems besetting Calvary Chapel today are not so much theological. Their beliefs are by and large Christian. It is their leadership that is wrong. The Moses Model as no place in the New Testament church. It was wrong to suggest that it does. It is wrong to maintain it. The early church's practice, witnessed by Scripture, was elder-led. We divorce ourselves from that tradition at our own peril. One-person rule is responsible for all of the abuse allegations and corruption that face the movement.

Anonymous said...

Very interesting, a good discussion. I went to CC st paul for years, it is down right spiritual abuse. This is what happens when there is no plurality of elders we see in the Bible. I was somewhat rejected by my CC family when i started seeing discernment issues. Everyone is going emergent in that, wolves are being welcomed in and the Gospel message of repentance is not preached as to not 'offend' and to be 'loving' touch not the unclean thing. www.truthreallymatters.com