Saturday, October 8, 2011

The Oppression of Youth And Dominionism

One caveat before I begin this one, this post is not about all parents that happen to go to Dominionist focused churches, there are people even within those churches who dearly love their children and treat them right but trends that are happening with different areas and with some teachers. I am going to be taking on multiple trends, they all come out of circles of Dominionist influenced "Christianity" and to me show how the totalitarianism of Dominionism is not just intended for the political order but the family as well.

More and more you see abuse out there put under false "Christian" guises. That is a major problem but in Dominionism, there is definitely an emphasis on extreme authoritarian parenting that is growing. One thing about young people, too many Christian parents think they can *make* them be Christian and *force* them to be good people. It's not going to happen. Only God can truly convict hearts and every individual's faith must be personal, it does not come about via Mom or Dad. It doesn't happen that way. A grown child or child needs to be born again themselves, and in freedom, train a child in the way they should go as the Bible states but the Bible also states this:

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Notice one of the words NURTURE??

One of the most evil two words together I have always seen is the misnomer known as TOUGH LOVE. You wonder who came up with that one? While I can understand parents not giving into to their drug addicted grown-child's demands, much of tough love was forwarded for the younger set. As if this world isn't tough enough, in pummeling the young person with unemployment, coldness, and endless competition just to survive, instead of parents being told comfort and help their children, they are told to be tougher, and hard. While children should be brought up with some responsibility, and self reliance, things really got out of whack here. How much of this was used to undermine natural family ties of love and affection?

While decent parents may face times when it is necessary to let an older grown child go in making their own decisions that are ungodly, and deal with children who are facing other problems, there is something seriously wrong out there, in that too many parents think they can CONTROL their children and even grown children and force them into submission.Too many are making it about breaking the child's will in fact that is the focus, to break the will of the child, so they become a broken person, to submit and bring total unthinking blind obedience. The seeds of Dominionism, are not just for the government and politicians, they are working on the social order, the families and have for decades.

I have talked about how in Vision Forum and patriarchy has been advanced where obedience to one's father [not the Heavenly Father] is put at the top of the list even for grown women and adult sons. Actually few realize all this total obedience is just how Islam does it in their fundamentalist circles for women, where even a widow must obey her grown son. Vision Forum advances total patriarchal obedience this is sold to well meaning people under the guise of 'protection'. Of course Vision Forum never addresses the problems of abusive fathers, or ones who may not even be Christian, or the oddness in a grown woman never becoming her own person. The reality is that if you remain unmarried and at home "obeying", that one day, your parents will die from old age and when people hit their middle years, this is more common then not. This website is right about this aspect of Vision Forum:

Young women will be protected from the debauchery of college men, Vision Forum promises – if they stay home and obey their fathers. Middle aged women will be free from the pressure to conform to an idealized image of sexy, Vision Forum asserts – if they stay home and obey their husbands. What is this? You will be valued and protected if you surrender all your rights and obey your male authority? THIS is the solution Vision Forum offers!

The other day I had the Duggars on, now I have written about the Duggars, being connected to Quiverful and Vision Forum. One odd scene was Michelle Duggar shaking her finger at some of the toddlers telling them to obey. Nothing wrong with that at least on the surface, all parents tell their children to obey. While the children are nice and respectful, few realize how intense the "training" behind the scenes is:

This doesn't sound so bad to a point, who doesn't want a child to learn to be able to sit still, and listen to their teacher or to their parents or not spending hours bickering...But few have heard of something called "blanket training" and this is something the Duggars have used [I do not know if the Duggars use any of the physical punishments or not spoken of below]

One lady with seven children describes how to blanket train on her website, while some of her ideas are good like keeping children busy during long sermons looking for certain words, the blanket training methods seem pretty worrisome. Do not forget a child's natural inclination is to explore the world around them, and this definitely puts a stop to that.

Blanket training" has been one of the most helpful tools for me! I only wish that I had heard about it before my 7th child came along!! The sweet lady who explained blanket training to me called it her "playpen in a purse"! This concept involves placing your baby or toddler on his/her favorite blanket, explaining to the best of their understanding that they must stay on their blanket, and then demonstrating the consequences of getting off the blanket with a small rod or switch. Simply switch the floor or carpet all around the outside edges of the blanket and firmly but sweetly say, "No, No! Don't touch!" Give your child few favorite toys to keep his attention, and switch the toys out every little bit, and that child will learn to stay on his blanket for quite a long period of time. Begin with just 3 - 5 minutes with very young children, and after practicing every day for several weeks, he will build up his time to play happily on that blanket until he can stay there for an hour or more! What a joy and a help this was to me when I had the older 6 children in school and needed to spend time with them! The joy of this training is that you can fold that blanket up, put it in the diaper bag, and take it easily to a friend's house, or visiting new church members, and your child will sit quietly without disrupting the visit! One of my pet peeves is when folks come to visit and just "unleash" their children to invade every room of your home! What chaos! This blanket training is easily converted to "church training" when you begin taking your young child into the services. Simply fold the blanket and put it on the pew and your child will already understand the limitations and rules!

Another website, describes blanket training more.

1: STAY ON THE BLANKET! Place the baby or small child on the blanket with a basket or Rubbermaid container full of items that are only taken out when blanket time is in session. Explain, even to babies, that they are to stay on the blanket and not get off or they will receive a small swat on the diaper. This may seem harsh, but the Bible clearly teaches that rods of discipline are to be used for training and discipline. With consistency your child will only require a few swats, at best. As soon as your baby or small child leaves the confines of the blanket, swat first and then explain gently as to why he or she was reprimanded. Place the child back on the blanket and repeat, as needed.

She writes on the website, the "swats" are to be light taps, I think it's scary for someone to spank babies too young to know what is going on, and it's very worrisome, notice the focus on CONTROL. Is doing what is easiest for parents, always best for the children? What about the child's natural inclination to explore. What about natural interaction between mother and child, where the mother does not become a prison warden? Is that what these "Christian" parents want to be prison wardens of perfect little robotic step-ford children? Some of the rules are odd, in telling the other children not to talk to the "baby" being blanket trained. Many of this "training" is not starting at one year or two years, but for babies who are just starting to crawl.

While the Bible speaks of training [disciplining not training like a pet] a child, this definitely takes things way too far. Now the Duggars do seem to love their children, but one wonders how things will be for them as they grow up where so much of their lives have been directed and seemingly from a young age. One can see the blanket training still in operation. Are personalities of total obedience and repression healthy ones? That is something to think about.

To me it sums up some really weird attitudes out there in some areas of the "Christian" world about young people. Do some of these people even see children as unique human beings who have the same dignity in God's eyes as themselves but happen to be younger ages? Do they see them as one day future adults who will have to stand on their own two feet? What is very odd to me, and I am thinking back to college psychology classes here, is that a lot of the "training" not just the blanket training seems to remind me of extreme godless psychology, especially from the branch called "Behaviorism" made famous by B.F.Skinner. He operated via Operant conditioning principles, the blanket training doesn't seem to far off, to tell you the truth:

B. F. Skinner’s entire system is based on operant conditioning. The organism is in the process of “operating” on the environment, which in ordinary terms means it is bouncing around its world, doing what it does. During this “operating,” the organism encounters a special kind of stimulus, called a reinforcing stimulus, or simply a reinforcer. This special stimulus has the effect of increasing the operant -- that is, the behavior occurring just before the reinforcer. This is operant conditioning: “the behavior is followed by a consequence, and the nature of the consequence modifies the organisms tendency to repeat the behavior in the future.”

His Skinner boxes used rats, but he wanted these things used on human beings, where reward and punishment would direct all behavior. I saw the use of such things even in a R.E.T. [Rational Emotive Therapy] System popularized by a different psychologist that was used in a secular school I worked in to the point that reward, demand and points were all scripted, and children not treated as individuals but had points mechanically assigned for good behavior and reduced for bad. If any of the staff deviated from the scripts [we had scripts we had to follow even during their misbehavior], we were to be reprimanded. In high school I remember reading Walden II where Skinner imagined a "new Utopian society" with use of his behaviorism. I have even known of schools of psychology where behaviorism was idealized and promoted at least 25 years ago. Hate to say it, but I see it's tendrils having entered in all over the place with these youth schools, "Christian" child training programs and the rest.

When I read about some of the child training, nothing about it seems biblical, they throw out a few verses but who ever heard of blanket training for babies in the 1890s the period of time they love to invoke? Even the Pearls seem to use a few of these "behaviorist methods" where "negative stimuli is supposed to invoke desired behavior"...This one is pretty scary:

A tiny stimulus to direct the child when they are small is enough. For example, if a 3 month-old nursing baby bites, don’t spank. She does not know she did bad. Just gently pull a hair on her head. She will startle back in momentary discomfort and immediately start nursing again. The tiny bit of discomfort makes the baby relate the biting down with the gentle pulling of the hair. You have not made her obey, you have only conditioned her to respond differently. That is training.

and here too...

But they cannot be absolutely trained. Proper application of the rod is indispensable to communicating the divine principle of retributive justice, but any child, military man, employee, the neighbor’s kid, your dog, cat, or the birds in your yard can be trained through manipulating their relationship to their environment. Any creature that is self-motivated and has likes and dislikes can be trained if you are in a position to reward or deny any pleasure or need. Where humans are concerned you have the added tools of reason, moral persuasion, social persuasion, and conscience. Where it concerns those that are close to you, that is, they depend upon your fellowship for their mental satisfaction, you have the additional tools of persuasion and example.

Are parents supposed to "CONDITION" children or are they supposed to teach them in a loving fashion? How much of these teachings are based on CONDITIONING and inherited from the psychology world, where 'conditioning" was used to ensure desired behaviors from animals and then translated onto children? The Pearls themselves even connect their methods to animal training and you can see multiple examples on the first page of their book "To Train Up a Child".

Here we see the promotion of things, that lead to more disconnection between humans. One part of human growth is learning to be connected and loved by their first care givers. It is supposed to be about a relationship not about control and a long list of rules. Even thinking regarding one's relationship with God and what that is to entail, you wonder how these people went this way.

Where is the humanity in all of this stuff? Why have parents be 'drill sergeants" instead of loving, teaching, providing care or preparing young people for an independent adult life. While parents do have to put down some consequences for bad behavior and teach children right from wrong, total control is wrong. A true Christian adult life, should be directed at the Lord's behest, conviction via the Holy Spirit, not just following a long series of rules, that others have set up for you or via CONDITIONING that started in infancy to keep you compliant. It shouldn't be about not allowing you to grow up.

There is some natural separating from children and their parents as they grow into adulthood, seeing this suppressed so adamantly is scary. If you want your child to be a Christian telling them, you better be a Christian [or else!] isn't going to cut it. Telling them follow these rules with no rhyme or reason, will not lead to a life where they are directed by God. Thinking that over-controlling them will keep them from sin is wrong, in fact it will actually open many of them to more open rebellion. You must lead by example and with love. Once your child is of age, while you may seek to instruct and influence, their decisions are to be their own.

What happens when all life life long conditioning takes precedent, and extreme sheltering and dependence come out in wash? One odd aspect of these movements seems to take sheltering the young people blocking their eyes, or ears, or brains from even knowing anything that happens in the outside world. Here is an example of a book written for Dominionist parents.

8 The Concept of Sheltering 103
9 The Biblical Basis of Sheltering 115
10 Our Example and Instruction
As Parents 129
11 Sheltering from the Negative Influences of Things 139
12 Sheltering from Negative Influences of People 151
13 Sheltering from Other
Negative Influences 169
14 The Reality of Our
Sheltering Choices 187

Do they really expect their children to be able to cope with the world, hiding them from everything. I can understand guarding your child's eyes and ears from things they are not ready for, violence, sex on TV and movies, and protecting them from things that would harm them even physically AND emotionally, but there is a line where over-protection gets carried away and where it becomes about locking that child's mind up. Untested "Christianity" remains facile, if they do not even know the existence of other religions or the deceptions people can fall into, if they are left ignorant on purpose. What happens to a Christian child who has never encountered or learned about the "outside" world at all even to be ready for it? It's like the Christian Dominionist world took secular helicopter parenting and raised it a few notches.

One thing I want to inform here, does Jesus Christ teach total obedience to parents or sheltering by parents when he states this?

Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Many out there will be at variance with relatives, parents, fathers, in obeying Jesus Christ. I dare say that will apply to the Dominionist and Patriarchy strands of false religion as well as leaving any other cult a grown child may have been raised in.

As I have written The Patriarchy movement with its extreme authoritarianism is an extreme example of this, where even a "Stay At Home Daughter" 30 year old daughter is taught she has to have every move approved of by the father she still lives with and where she must obey like a 10 year old.

You also see the weird Purity Balls, where daughters are instructed to swear their virginity to their fathers. To be frank while parents should teach their daughters to save sex for marriage and keep themselves pure, this all smacks of severe unnecessary regulation and distrust of those same daughters to make the right decision. It also crosses boundaries that should not be crossed. That should be between them and God when they are adults, and hopefully they will make the right biblical decisions. Why is there a trend in some circles of "Dominionist Christianity" where fathers will be choosing or at least having to approve these girl's future husbands? How come purity is never spoken of regarding the young men? One odd trend in purity circles and one saw it with the Duggars oldest son and wife to be, is the extreme of teaching daughters they cannot even kiss a fiance' and must wait til the wedding day. Years ago when I was a liberal UU, while the Handmaiden's Tale was a wicked book, that promoted abortion in inverse, this set up seems to follow the story line of an extreme patriarchial theocratic society.

Do these "Christians" even realize they are following in fundamentalist Islam's footsteps. What next a bride price and negotiating between fathers for each marriage? What about having the teachings of Christianity where the Holy Spirit leads a daughter to make the right decisions instead of having it forced upon them via supervision by her father? Again it makes everything about authority. Even if society is disgustingly debauched and you fear for your daughter, you do not impose such things upon then. The odd statement within the video, "The father is everything" is just more of that backwards promotion of patriarchy. Sadly people who have rightly tired of the moral decay of society are being seduced into these programs.

But then you see the popularity of the Pearls whose program focuses on training children to submit to authority [or else! in many cases] and it really makes you start to wonder. The Pearls whose writings are used in many conservative and fundametnalist Christian circles, do advocate 'training", and "harsh punishment" for children. Bill Gothard as well focuses on 'character training" and "obedience drills" where children sing the praises of obedience and to announce they are grateful for the opportunity to follow orders:

Gothard teaches in his seminars that obedience brings godliness. Authority figures - the father, the politician, the minister, and the boss - are to be obeyed as if Christ were giving the orders. Gothard's ideas of family life are rigid, as wives are taught to be submissive and men are encouraged to be the absolute head of the household. Quotes from the Bible are used as backup to his assertions. The biblical justification for always being subservient to the boss comes from 1 Peter 2:18: "Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear."

Authority figures, according to Gothard, are on a higher spiritual plain than ordinary folk, and obeying them will help one get closer to God. He tells his followers that they are to obey everything, except orders to do "evil." If your boss is dead wrong, Gothard says it's OK to make a "Godly appeal" to him, but if the appeal is refused, the worker must live with it

Blind obedience to authority figures is never a good thing. It is scary to me that Gothard teaches that authority figures have more moral claim and are on a higher level, it reminds me of Catholicism where we were taught that clergy and the "religious" were better people and we were to obey them. Even the extreme emphasis on "virginity" and "purity" is nothing new to me since even in the Catholic church, as I was educated by nuns, this was a constant theme. These are good things in themselves but can be abused. Now blind obedience has infested the evangelical world. This isn't the only Catholic saint, who demanded blind obedience to religious authority. It is a theme of every cult out there.

Obey blindly , that is, without asking reasons. Be careful, then, never to examine the directions of your confessor....In a word, keep before your eyes this great rule, that in obeying your confessor you obey God. Force yourself then, to obey him in spite of all fears. And be persuaded that if you are not obedient to him it will be impossible for you to go on well; but if you obey him you are secure. But you say, if I am damned in consequence of obeying my confessor, who will rescue me from hell? What you say is impossible." St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p 352, Benziger Brothers, NY.

See how that works? One thing with all this blind obedience that is advocated, is the authority of priests, popes, well in this case evangelical preachers, and teachers and religious figures, and even your own biological father in the case of patriarchy is elevated to the extreme. This would include the politicians and other "leaders" of the world too. What better way to keep people unquestioning sheeple, then by training them from childhood to always obey and if they don't or they dare to question, that the punishment will be swift, sure and severe?

There is something being advanced in many Dominionist "Christian circles", where all the NUTURE has been taken out of child-rearing, all the comfort and more. Is there a sociological reason for all the extreme hyper-authoritarian parenting that has taken hold among Dominionism and related partriarchy groups? I realize some are well meaning people who are getting sucked into this stuff, the changes in this world are scary, the moral decay the rot, they know too many young adults falling into the abyss of drugs, sexual debauchery, and rejecting moral values, but squeezing the hand of parental control to super-rigid extents is no answer too. It makes one wonder. I remember reading books on German history that spoke of the years before Hitler, where authoritarian parenting was cultural and it makes one wonder how it could be used to make for a passive populace. As I have written on this blog, some do not see the luciferian big picture, but for this "child-rearing" changes, to me there is one. It is about CONTROL and about the waxing cold of the last days, where natural affection and love, are canceled out.

Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Most of the "Christians" being led into these child-rearing methods are unknowing people, they want to do the "right thing" they want to protect their children from harm, drugs, teen pregnancy, witchcraft, alcoholism, but sadly they are being led down yet another false rabbit trail, and it is not just the very extremes of the Dominionist Quiverful Patriarchy crowd, it's infested itself everywhere into American society from James Dobson to the high schools with their guards at the front door.

One sees the "tough love", "keep the young people under control" ethos all over the place, there are 'fundamentalist" colleges that treat 20 year old young adults like children, and 'ground' them or what they call "campus" them for a variety of offenses, some rather small. Some have rules where no young woman can leave the campus without chaperones or permission. What is astonishing about this, is how will such a young woman learn to survive in today's world when she is graduated from that college? Husbands work and cannot accompany them everywhere they go in the future. If behavior is not self-directed from the inside, but only imposed by strict forces from the outside, a child or teen does not mature and grow normally.

Rome had its schools of evil where children were beaten, abused and even put to work such as in the Magdalene laundries, but it's scary when you see in the news so many evangelical and fundamentalist Christians schools seeming to go that way. I ran across this recently and was horrified.

Anyone who runs a school like this is a definite wolf. There is no Christian love in beating, abusing and humiliating children to submit to your will. Those who think they can turn their children into loving, obedient Christians via FORCE have already lost the plot. Ever wonder why so many of these schools keep popping up? Why do they all seem run by fanatical mad tyrants? One can see the endless lists, Hephzibah House the Roloff Homes and many more. Why is so much of this happening?

A very likely spiritual outcome is they could turn those children into die-hard atheists for life, as the main example of "Christianity" they see includes beatings, abuse and an endless list of draconian rules even for the ones who are not out and out physically abused.

Some years ago, on a message board, I even saw a couple of "Christians" defend this story where a girl was tied to a truck at a boot camp and dragged. They acted like she deserved what happened to her. No Christian love there. That is one of the times I have been most upset dealing with false Christians online. To defend such a thing was sickening. This girl could have been killed.

A teenage girl attending a Christian "boot camp" in Texas was allegedly tied to a van and dragged along the ground after falling behind during a morning run.

Police said yesterday that a pastor and camp counsellor [sic] were arrested on aggravated assault charges after the 15-year-old girl suffered injuries at the Faith Outreach Centre in a suburb of San Antonio.

A police spokesman said the incident took place in June and was reported to police by the mother of the girl after she was hospitalised for unspecified injuries.

Charles Flowers, a senior pastor, and Stephanie Bassitt, a counsellor, were arrested on Friday.

The girl, who has not been named, was apparently participating in a running exercise at the military-style Love Demonstrated Ministries camp when she became tired.

Why are "Christians" running schools that are like military camps and treating young girls the same like young men? Of course even the regular military has laws against what happened to that girl. Isn't it ironic that those who claim to care about biblical femininity and promote "patriarchy" set up schools and institutions that hold expectations for young women that match those for the most hard core Marine?

Many do not know about the whole "troubled teen" industry where wealthy parents send supposedly out of control teens to out of country or out of state wilderness and other schools where boot camp and austere living are promoted and extreme punishments for the smallest infractions are given. Many of these schools claim they are "Christian". One wonders how much deep "mind control" and other evil agendas are tied to these places given their sometimes out and out torture of young people. How much of this is about experiments for control of the populace and the planned totalitarianism? After all if you break down the young people under extreme oppressive authority what will they become? Even the public schools have rapidly changed to this sort of thing: "Life in US Public Schools is Just Like Prison".

See here

The school has a current enrollment of 63 children, placed in the school by parents in an effort to remedy behavior problems. New Horizon uses a boot-camp atmosphere to place children onto what school officials believe to be the right road for life.

A handful of protesters showed at a Founder's Day celebration this month at the Marion campus.

"We want people to ask us about our experiences in the program, educate those who didn't know about the program and let students see that we are rooting for them," said Lisa Brown Wilbur of New Castle as she held a sign reading "Stop the Abuse."

The protesters painted a picture of complete dictation, a life completely monitored by counselors.

And yes in those places their lives are totally controlled and monitored. Many of these schools including secular ones, are full of human rights violations, extreme punishments, like withholding food and sleep and hours of hard labor, and oppressive behavior modification methods.

This is just one of the many examples among many. Some young people have lost their lives in the worse places. These schools grew numerous in the 80s but kept expanding in the 90s. Many parents were told this was the best way to deal with their troubled teens. In some circles, harsh punishment was promoted for every problem a young person was to face, strip their room clean of every item except the mattress, send them off to "wilderness camps" or "bootcamps" where intense physical exercise and brutality ruled. Young adults who encountered health problems or could not take the strain, have died at these places.

The "or else" reached an alarming level in the wilderness programs where kids have actually died as a result of untrained staff taking them to potentially dangerous wilderness areas. The most notorious case was that of Aaron Bacon. As a small child, Aaron was the kind of boy who brought food to the homeless and let them take showers in the guesthouse. "II sat him down and said, 'Look, you can't do that,'" his mother,Sally recalls. "'We don't know if these people will harm you.' And he looked at me and said, 'Mom, we have a house. We have love. We have each other. They don't have anything and I won't stop.'"7

In high school, Aaron began taking drugs. His mother put him in North Star Expeditions. She expected him to be "out there with God and Nature and himself writing." The program gave Aaron a pair of cheap boots that were too small, a sleeping bag and a backpack. He was never given warm enough clothing. A few days later, he developed the first symptoms of intestinal problams. The staff told Aaron that "all counselors, therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists are quacks.8 The campers had to learn how to make a fire with a native bow drill technique and were not allowed to cook their food until they learned. Already hungry because most of the food, such as lentils and rice, was inedible if it wasn't cooked, they were put on a two-day fast. He had trouble from the very start, developing blisters in his too-tight boots, staggering and falling from the combined weight of his backpack and lack of food. The worst thing was the ulcer that began on the first day and developed until it became perforated (intestinal fluids leaking into his abdominal cavity, causing peritoritus).

Often desperate parents with drug addicted children with nowhere else to turn, sadly are exploited by such places.

Years ago I read a book called

It's a autobiography by a woman who had abusive parents who sent her to one of these schools. They put forth themselves as Christians, but seem to be psychopaths, the father even breaks one of her adopted brothers arms in a fit of anger. In this case they attend an ultra-strict Calvinist church, but the story of how they are sent to this school overseas that is so strict, they enforce endless stupid rules, force them to live a dangerous third world lifestyle, with starvation and over-work included. They also prevent the sister and brother from having contact with each other. The school is the zenith of totalitarian rule, and control. Thankfully they both escape, but barely.

"For Julia Scheeres and her adopted brother David, "Jesus Land" stretched from their parents' fundamentalist home, past the hostilities of high school, and deep into a Christian reform school in the Dominican Republic. For these two teenagers - brother and sister, black and white - the 1980's were a trial by fire." "In this memoir, Scheeres takes us from the familiar Midwest, a land of cottonwood trees and trailer parks, to a place beyond her imagining. At home, the Scheeres kids must endure the usual trials of adolescence - high-school hormones, incessant bullying, and the deep-seated restlessness of social misfits everywhere - under the shadow of virulent racism neither knows how to contend with. When they start to crack (or fight back), they are packed off to Escuela Caribe." This brutal, prison-like "Christian boot camp" demands that its inhabitants repent for their sins - sins that few of them are aware of having committed"

Things are getting rather bad out there.

I believe the oppression of youth, comes as a natural outcome of the false DOMINIONIST teachings, they are definitely connected. if everything is about control, authority, oppression, coloring in between the lines for society, wouldn't it influence the families who are in these churches? Wouldn't it influence the nature of these so called "Christian" schools for troubled youth? In a burgeoning police state, the heavy hand of authority on all levels is emphasized more and more. Children are raised with submission to authority as the first thing. Fascism married to a false "Christianity" that emphasizes extreme authoritarianism and here you see the evil fruits for the young people.


Kayfabe said...

I remember my former youth Pastor at Foursquare being big on first time obedience with his son and would preach that to other Parents as well. Me and friend went to visit the youth pastor at his house years back and once we were invited in the pastors son ran into the living room to ask his dad a question but in doing so he failed to greet us. The youth pastor scolded his son and then made his son go back to his room and then made him re enter the living room but this time he had to greet us. We told the pastor that he didn't have to do that but the pastor told us he was teaching his son first time obbedience. His son was a sweet kid and his not greeting us was not intentional. It all seemed to be too harsh as me and my friend agreed on the way home. Years later the pastors son was still a sweet kid but he had no outward personality of his own. It seems like many christian parents are trying to live like the Cleavers.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Kayfabe,

Yes that does sound too harsh, also there is the embarrasment of correcting him in front of other people instead of taking him to the side. It just sounds like the young man made an honest mistake. Also other people should not be included in stuff like that, he just succeeded in making you as guests uncomfortable. It's too bad the son, did lose an outward personality, probably becoming more repressed. I agree many of them are trying to live like the Cleavers, maybe even worse. There is too much "the children are a reflection on me" narcissism undergirding all this, where the perfectly behaved robotic children are part of the Quiverful, Vision Forum, etc lifestyle sort of like the "perfect accessory.

michelle said...

True. I don't see anything wrong with teaching children in the way that they need to go but these types are taking that to a whole other level. I realize that having a home where children say and do all that they want when they feel like it is a recipe for disaster but so is narcissistic parenting like what the Ezzo, Pearl, and Gothard methods promote.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Michelle,

Yes I agree they are taking it to a whole other level of control. I agree it is narcissistic parenting where the children are seen as little robots and accessories, there to do your every bidding.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Thank you for this post.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for the positive feedback.

Debra Baker said...

It is a shame so many Christian parents have allowed themselves to be deceived into the thought process in which they must follow the rules some human created in order to be sure their children will end up as good Christian people when these children will be saved as everyone else will be saved; by the free gift Jesus offers as a result of His sacrifice on the cross.

The cross is sufficient. Simple, basic, TRUE, and FREE

Anything added to this is from the pit of hell.

amielou31 said...

Tough love is a concept that is not without merit. I have a teenage nephew just kicked out of his school for bad grades. Kid needs a little tough love to get his act together as he is now a junior who is a semester behind for graduation. It is the misapplication of the concept that is the problem.

And I object to your characterization of Catholicism. I was educated in Catholic schools and I learned two key things: 1--all people are given dignity by God because they are created in His image and we should treat everyone as such and 2--I have free will to make my own choices with an informed conscience so that I can follow the will of God for my life, vocation, gifts and talents. As for the priests to be obeyed with no simply is not true at all. Believe me, having also taught in Catholic schools and thus worked directly with many priests, the first thing they would tell you is that they just don't have time to be dictating your life and the second thing is that God gave you a brain, a conscience and free will to make your own choices. And the best ones helped both students and staff to truly question the church because it is how you learn and make the faith your own.

I also learned, while teaching in Catholic school, about how moral and faith development works. And the fear based teaching of blind obedience does not result in an adult fully formed morality or faith. That is something that the people pushing these programs need to consider very seriously.

Bible Believer said...

I believe sometimes like in a case with your nephew there does have to be some laid down consquences, of course in his case, why the bad grades? Most kids do not get bad grades via rebellion unless he is skipping school or acting up so much in the classroom he never hears the teacher or does the work but learning problems. That may help him more to get to the bottom of what is causing the problem. With schooling, not everyone is cut out to learn the same way or to have the same skills. I see too many kids who do try their best in school but get punished for not getting up to the same level of their peers. What if he is not academically inclined? Some parents do not want to face these realities, but he could go on to success anyway. Often times the straight A students do not have skills in other areas that actually help in success. They may be better at fixing things or other skills but those remain often unfounded.

Sure the Catholic schools like all other religious schools teach some ideals, such as people being given dignity by God. The free will thing, well, there may be more some liberal Catholic schools teaching that one but the freedom to leave Catholicism? I do not think they'd be so happy about that one.

I would question Catholicism in Catholic school and get sent to the principal for punishment. They would berate me and I was told at the end not to ask too many questions and to remain silent. This was the same concept advanced at home.

I never taught in Catholic schools as a regular teacher but did teach religious ed for a time, where I was told I was not allowed to deviate off the lesson plans which included even political agendas I did not agree with such as the advancement of the United Nations. What scared me there, was there was several 7th grade students who did not even believe in God. At the time, I had begun my own Bible reading which led to my later salvation and wanted to work more closely with the basics of belief in God to at least get them to think about these things, and that was not allowed. I do not support fear based teaching of blind obedience for anyone and that includes even in Bible Christianity.

Bible Believer said...

With the priests, since Vatican 2 there has been some outward liberalization, so the blind obedience at least overt had diminished, but what do you think was behind all the scandals and those cover ups, where so many did the bidding of the bishops and the Pope at the top?

Priests do not have people question the church, not at all. A few of the liberal ones do not mind if you go join the other members of Mystery Babylon, because as Catholic interfaithism advances, they see many paths up the mountain top to "god". The more conservative ones, will tell you to stay Catholic, and that you are leaving a superior religion for an "inferior" one but lacking biblical truth, do not understand the true nature of God.

You are talking to someone who has known priests and spent intense times volunteering at her last Catholic church who has spoken to priests and even had befriended one in early college. Sure a few questions may be allowed, but questioning papal authority? The Sacraments? I guess you'll see how far that "freedom" goes. The priests themselves also know the limits they lie under. Priest classes are not democracies. The priests themselves must swear obedience to their superiors.

I do believe in people making their faith own. In fact it disturbs me how some in fundamentalist and Dominionist Christianity think they can FORCE their children to be Christians, train the child in the way they can go, but this is not something that can be accomplished via force but the child's own heart, mind and relationship with God.

Sadly so much of Dominionism overlaps with Catholicism.

The Catholic church was the basically the first Dominionist church, marrying church and state and seeking relationships with world wide political power. Even the Pope now preaches Utopian things and "makes this a better world" seeking a central world gov't which is in the fulfilment of BIble prophecy.

The control of youth is a given in Catholicism. Their training, the investment in education, not bad things on the surface of course as even Christian parents want to give their children a biblical foundation, but even the Jesuits said ""Give me the child when he is 7, and I will show you the man". Most people do not break out of their Catholic training or other false religions. Some do fortunately find out the truth, and are born again. I am one who broke out, I am watching young people today being trained to be Catholic within my family.

There is no Catholic school in existence, that is going to mildly smile and speak of free will and free consciences, to watch one of their students leave the Catholic church, recognize it as the harlot and become a born again Christian. The more liberals ones tolerate lateral moves to other members of Mystery Babylon.

I went to Catholic school, and was taught the "moral and faith" development for 8 years running and then 4 more years in an outside Catholic youth group. So I know how that works.

They will claim "freedom" but it is not biblical "freedom"

The Dominionists who try and deny their children their own minds, and freedom to make the Christian faith their own [the true gospel instead of the Dominionist gospel] have lost the plot too.

Bible Believer said...

I agree Debra, those who think manmade rules are going to make their child a Christian have lost it. It is all about freedom in trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and what He did on the cross for us. This is a relationship meant to be based in accepting God's given grace and love, not following a long list of rules to give an outward appearance of godliness that is false.

You are right the cross is sufficient, and everything else is from the pits of hell.

They must be born again, and must have their OWN relationship with JESUS CHRIST.

follower of Yeshua said...

So if Yah wants to give them so many children , Yah canot care for His own ? Why all the hate toward possible/probable christian brethern . Where is the charity ?

You know what if more of the professing people in america had big families as it used to be amerika might not be in this mess. Feminism is evil and a lie . Any person who professes to be christian and uses any form of so called birth control , might want to read their bibles some more and research what birth control pills do . Many kill the fetuses by making them distach from the wall of uterus . Which is murder . Any professing christian who says he favors so called birth control agrees then that they would have been allowed to say if john the baptist or Jesus's bodies could be killed eh ?

The Bible teachs if a man withholds the rod from his son(s) ,Pro_13:24 it is a sign that the man hates his children . As family down here is similar to how yah treats his children . For if ye be without chastisement then ye are basterds .

I see much envy in this post .
Let the duggars alone , and let the Almighty deal with them eh.
None of you read the end of the book of John lately ?,
Joh 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

It is an interesting part of life seeing the condition of the Lord's churches in the once humble america , without a wife.

The Earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof .

You see right there the Earth is the Lord's , NO ONE ELSE's PERIOD .

The earth is not man's , the earth is not satan's , the earth is not any devil's , the earth is not anyones , but YAH's

THE EARTH is the Lords and the fulness thereof

so any who says the Lord God of Heaven and earth does not have DOMINION , yall might want to read your bible more and read Rev 21 for a warning

As my Lord and Saviour boldly PROCLAIMED , the FLESH profiteth NOTHING

You think any man has a choice of salvation ? As my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ put it clearly , if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me