Friday, September 2, 2011

How Future Pastors and Present Ones Are Influenced

[for spiritual survival, I'd put that number at 5%]

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some time ago, I asked myself why do all these apostate pastors seem so much the same, in thinking, outlook and operations? Why so little individuality? Why so little interest in testing things? Why so much falling away, to where even in the mainline churches, some of them seem to be functional agnostics? I knew the answer lied in how they were being "trained" in a way where conformity ruled. Part of me really believes that if someone is truly born again, and desiring to preach to others, that they would weed someone out like that fast. One thing to ask yourself is where in the Bible did any Christian teachers get years of "seminary" and "spiritual formation" to go out and teach to anyone? I'd rather listen to a humble truly born again man, preach on the Word which he truly loves and never has stepped foot in a classroom rather then some of these endlessly educated sorts, who conform so much to the world.

Some time back then I found myself, actually going to seminary websites, and reading what classes they had on the lists, lots of vain philosophy, "church history" based on Rome's version of the "facts", false "psychology" and over-all promotion of the global program. I wanted to see what they were teaching them and how it was playing out on the church stage.

Fuller, one of the worse offenders for sheep-dipping your future pastor into false theology and with massive ties to the new world order [Google it, plenty of others have outlined those connections] has many blatant examples:

Fuller Theological Seminary has set the following institutional goals. Students will:
Engage in the study of the Bible, theology and spirituality in a way that contributes to following their vocation
Through reflection become aware of the global nature of the Church and how it engages society in local contexts. Become attentive to the diverse nature of the Church and the world and practiced in engaging with it.
Be equipped to pursue their vocation
Become spiritually formed and committed to the Church’s mission in the world.

Fuller Theological Seminary Student Learning Outcomes:
Graduates will demonstrate an understanding of Christian theology, ministry, and spirituality.
Graduates will be aware of and critically engage ecclesial, societal, and global issues from Christian theological perspectives and demonstrate the ability to make informed choices toward positive change.
Graduates will demonstrate the ability to identify critical issues of diversity and make appropriate responses.
Graduates will be able to pursue careers consistent with their education.
Graduates will demonstrate the integration of Christian spiritual formation and character.
Notice something about this list? It's got the whole globalist taint to it all and trust me they aren't the only ones.

I have no objections to folks studying a wide range of things, I like to study history myself, better to be informed then not, but it's interesting to go look at the courses future pastors get, now let's look at Biola [I chose them at random] everyone know's Fuller is one of the most liberal ones out there, so decided to pick one seen in the middle, and look at the courses:

Well one class is named "Social Justice & Human Rights", well "justice" is a good thing but we know that sort of class could be used for other agendas including imparting the false social justice gospel, While Biola has some classes on the Bible and traditional stuff, what would a class named "BIOS 305 - Global Development and Ecological Sustainability" impart? Would being against Agenda 21, get you tossed out of that class? Globalism seems a given in the class names:

"BUSN 344 -
Global Marketing Management
Focus on the formulation of global marketing management strategies. Presents a conceptual overview of the world market environment, including issues related to culture and diversity. The managers’ perspective is analyzed with regard to market entry methods and the various barriers that could impact international business. Prerequisite(s): 230. Upper division standing. Unit(s): 3.

Would you get tossed out of that class for being against outsourcing? Then there is this one.

INCS 440 - The Local Church and World Missions
Designed to integrate principles of cross-cultural communication and theology and strategy of missions within a total conceptual framework to aid the local church in mission involvement, including approaches to mission education, mobilization, organization, and leadership; disciple making, prayer, and member care; partnerships, church-based teams, and responding to contemporary global issues. Unit(s): 3.

and this: [you know about my warnings about the World Christian Movement and what it entails]

INCS 446 - Expansion of the World Christian Movement
The historical development and spread of the Christian faith from the apostolic period until today. Emphasis is given to the modern era, especially growth dynamics in the Global South (non-Western world). Unit(s): 3.

Then you see the "leadership" stuff, why does it sound like Rick Warren wrote some of these class descriptors, overused word "equipping"

CEED 254 - Leadership Development
Overview of biblical and contemporary leadership theories applied to personal leadership development and the equipping of volunteer leaders within the local church. When Offered: Spring. Unit(s): 3.

Just so you know, spiritual formation is considered a Catholic concept. In other words, Christians have the Holy Spirit teach and "form" them, a class or being taught by others isn't going to do it.

"CEED 255 - Foundations of Spiritual Formation
This course will provide a biblical overview of the fundamentals of developing and maintaining a deep and abiding relationship with God through theological, integrative and experiential perspectives. When Offered: Fall. Unit(s): 3."

and then there is a class, where you are actually supposed to "get" a spiritual director which is called:

"TTSF 505 - Talbot Spiritual Direction A personal experience is required in Spiritual Direction at the Center for Spiritual Renewal at ISF. Course provides students the opportunity to explore their life of prayer and growth with a trained mentor or spiritual director from the Institute for Spiritual Formation. Prerequisite(s): TTSF 501 (or concurrent enrollment). Spiritual Formation Focus course; not open to ISF students. Note(s): Two semesters of spiritual direction must be completed between the second and the end of the fourth semester. Students are required to meet with an approved spiritual director a minimum of 4 times per semester....."

And what is this NEW WORLD stuff?

TTMN 849 - Growing Ministries in the “New World” I
Explores the challenges and opportunities for church growth and multiplication in the post-modern context. Analyzes the theology, procedures, and methods of new movements and emerging models. Students will be introduced to the procedures for writing a book manuscript for publication. Unit(s): 6.

Other interesting ones included "Faith in the Public Square" [CSAP 645]and the odd fact they have a class that warns about Mormonism [CSAP 655]but not Catholicism. Then there is the CS Lewis Seminar [CSAP 693]. Would one be tossed out of the room for declaring that CS Lewis was a proto-Catholic? LOL There are endless leadership classes: CSOL 550 Leadership Challenge, CSOL 610 Leadership & Group Behavior, CSOL 615 Persuasive Communication, perhaps some of these are meant for the business majors, but it's interesting to note. This class descriptor says it all

PHIL 302 - Medieval Philosophy
The history and philosophy in the West from Augustine to William of Occam, with special emphasis upon Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. In contrast to 212, the lower division course which covers the same period, this course is designed for students who have already taken at least one course in philosophy and are expected to achieve at a higher level of learning. Unit(s): 3.

Why the SPECIAL emphasis on Thomas Aquinas who by the way, helped with Rome's Inquisitions? Remember what I wrote about him here?

While these are just a few classes out of others that are basic major areas and academics, I hope you can see where I am going with this. If you get the time, take a quick glance at some other seminary class lists and what the future pastors are being taught, it is quite revelatory.

The best pastors, in my opinion aren't ones who have long lists of divinity degrees, in fact the ones who are more educated, seem to be the ones who have become more apostate. Now do not get me wrong, I am not against education and learning, but you must know these schools have an agenda being sold to the idealistic well meaning youth who are entering their doors to become future pastors. There is a reason that seminaries are referred to as cemeteries

That said, they are training the men who are already pastors, seeking to influence and dissuade them. One of the worse examples I found was THIS. This is from Lausanne, which is Billy Graham's organization, and has many para church organizations and meetings. I have warned about Lausanne here.

This shows an example of some of the "training" pastors would get at this group...this is from a paper entitled "LOP 24: Cooperating in World Evangelization: A Handbook on Church/Para-Church Relationships"

As one reads through this, one can see even the subtle mind-control at play, focusing on unity above all else and more. There is a lot of mind-control, programming, and more being done on the human mind. Can you see the "script" being sold?

One paragraph addresses "AN INDIFFERENT ATTITUDE TO UNITY" but underneath that is the interesting self examination list given to pastors, you can see that this teaches the exact opposite of biblical separation under the title "The Harmfulness of Strained Relationships", the paper later devolves into odd defenses of Catholicism and Luther's misdirected church organizational skills but I'll let you see some of these questions for yourselves, and think about how these are used to push the false unity message and shut down all dissent. This one is kind of funny as one imagines sirens going off, every time someone manages an independent thought.....

"3. Who is there, close to me, who can "flash a red light" each time I engage in disparaging talk about another church or Christian leader?"

Yes they train them never to speak any critical word of another church, I guess for the ecumenists this would include Rome.

5. Do I feel my denomination or organisation is more prestigious (longer history, larger size, etc.) than others? If so, is this reflected in my having a chip on my shoulder? Have I prayed about my attitude?

8. Am I considered a strong personality? If so, do I have difficulty getting along with other strong personalities? Which one will I try to build a bridge with today?

The underlying message, no strong personalities wanted....

11. Do I see the furthering of Christian unity merely as an optional extra? If everyone were as active as I, would the Church make much progress in this direction?

13. Do people know me as a peace-maker or a trouble-maker? Am I aware of some friction where God could use me to restore harmony? Have I prayed that the door may, open?

I guess "trouble makers" would be people who actually speak out.

Take a look at the rest of the list, it's all about being a blind follower of unity and "being with the program".

This is just a small snippet of things they are teaching the pastors, there are many magazines, and other writings out there, including Leadership Journal and the huge number of pastoral meetings and seminars, if you ever get the time, and happen to be in a Christian book store, or even online flip through one of these things, you can see what is making these pastors into what they are. What is done to the mind of men who are told to see themselves as these wondrous leaders over and over?

Speaking of leaders...who seem to desire "followers" don't forget this verse...

1Cr 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

The seminaries are infiltrated, I did a blog entry on the Jesuit-influenced in Calvary Chapel, well you can find interesting members of the board all over the place. While doing research for this article, searching for "seminaries" I found this. This SDA person discovered out and out Jesuits on the board at the accrediting agency of their SDA school:

"And now control of the curriculum has passed into the hands of the La Compañía de Jesús (Jesuit Order).
The Seminary's Board of Supervisors includes leading Jesuit scholars. (see at right) The seminary professors have done a thorough work in implementing the Catholic curriculum, as confirmed in a 2009 comprehensive evaluation."

No surprises there given the truth about the Seventh Day Adventist church being a daughter of Rome but then look AGAIN...This ATS group doesn't just accredit small SDS colleges, but LOTS OF OTHERS AS WELL. Biola isn't on this list, but lots of OTHER EVANGELICAL AND OTHER SEMINARIES ARE INCLUDING FULLER and ones like REGENT and ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF THEOLOGY.

I don't have room to include the entire LIST, but I'll show you a snippet, go to the list to see ALL of them. Here is the list direct from ATS itself too.

AT least TWO JESUIT INFLUENCED-CONNECTED on the BOARD....[I added the yellow highlighting and arrows]

One here:

and here:

That's kind of scary considering this group is in charge of "accredidating" such a wide range of seminaries including evangelical ones.

Don't forget Lausanne, behind the scenes is a Catholic influenced enterprise when you get right down to it, a trojan horse fueled by Billy Graham who never made a secret of his ecumenical views towards Rome.

There is a reason that Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas are being so stressed in that one class at Biola, I wouldn't doubt that happening in many other schools too.

The pastors are being "Trained" for the Antichrist one world church. Very few aren't going with the program. Those pastors who are not born again, and look to programs, world unity and global enterprises, are leading their flocks down the path to perdition. I asked this before, but I do sometimes wonder if any pastors are reading a blog like this? I know most of ones in the "system" are told 'discernment' websites are 'bad' and 'divisive". If you are a pastor who is going against the flow to Rome, come and comment here....


Anonymous said...

So true, BB! Great article! You're right about how they use "history" that is the revisionist history of Rome. How many times I have seen people who have "converted" to Rome because they are duped with Rome's version of the "historical church", and not a few of these are former pastors, the very people who have been trained at those cemeteries. Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

Hi Anon, I hope you saw the updated version of this article, I followed the trail of those Jesuits or Jesuit influenced on the board of the major accreditating agency of seminaries in the USA, including screenshots...They definitely use revisionist "history", hey I had the Roman Catholic school system teach me "history" so know exactly how it is presented. These colleges go down the entire Roman 'history" rabbit trail, stressing Rome's councils, etc, I have seen many in these false churches or coming out of these seminaries convert to Rome based on Rome's "history" [early church fathers, Augustine, and the rest. They also embrace Rome's view of scripture to deny it for their own authority. Scott Hahn is a famous now Catholic apologist who used to be a Presbyterian minister, there are many other.....

Anonymous said...

This is about as good an article on this topic as I have ever read.

Yes, the best Bible teachers are those who take the Bible literally and allow the Holy Spirit to teach through them. But both of these principles get lost in most "seminaries" and "Bible colleges".

Abbey said...

I agree, the cookie cutter pastors. They act the same, preach the same drivel, tell jokes so the people just love coming to church (to be entertained), dress casual and even the buildings themselves are similar. Seeing what the seminaries are teaching is sickening but I guess we shouldn't be surprised. The Jesuits have infiltrated all forms of education over the years as we know. Numerous presidents, politicians and even dictators went to Jesuit run schools. What always surprises me though is the widespread lack of discernment and wisdom among the so called men of God. Some are just false teachers but what about the rest? Are they that gullible that they don't see the global agenda and unity at all costs even if it means compromising the truth? We are to love people but not join hands with false religions by finding something we have in common. Aren't they studying Scripture? How is it so many are so deluded?

Ephesians 4:14

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

A man cannot be a pastor without the God given spiritual gift of teaching. He also needs to have wisdom and discernment. It's not something learned in a classroom. Through the working of the Holy Spirit the pastor has the spiritual ability to shepherd the flock of God. He should be guarding, guiding, encouraging, and warning, etc. his congregation. There isn't very much warning being preached nowadays. That would be divisive and intolerant. We can't have any of that.

I agree concerning church history. Much of the written records have been destroyed or confiscated by the RCC over the centuries as they slaughtered one group after another. What a wealth of information and insight we are missing out on. There's so much I'd love to know about the true church fathers and believers before the Rome abomination came along and rewrote history.

Anonymous said...

Great discernment. Great article. Really good stuff.

Matt TwoFour

Lisa Ruby said...

Abbey wrote: "I agree, the cookie cutter pastors. They act the same, preach the same drivel, tell jokes so the people just love coming to church (to be entertained), dress casual and even the buildings themselves are similar."

Yes, most buildings that Christians meet in have steeples or obelisks. This is Masonic symbolism. Cookie cutter church buildings too . . .

Bible Believer said...

Thanks, and Thanks Matt TwoFour, yes I agree the best Bible teachers teach via the Holy Spirit. These pastors in these seminaries are taught anything but. The education works against those taking the BIble literally, I found out in Catholic seminary some time ago, they have classes debating who even wrote the gospels [they deny the authorship, like a more severe Jesus serminar]definitely some of that stuff is filtering in from these apostate seminaries too. Why wouldn't it be?

Yes Abbey, I sometimes have been floored by how these pastors seem to be the "same personality" over and over, with some variations to extroversion,...'one mind of the beast", well they are trained, there are classes I am sure where they are taught how to "seduce" audiences, and how to dress. It's about being folksy, "funny" and appealing to the flesh. The sameness is coming from somewhere. Even folks in the middle of snow country, see their Calvary Chapel pastor expressing a love of Hawaiian shirts as one can see webwide, which makes one wonder, if some kind of 'dress code' is insisted on to be "casual" and "seeker sensitive". Its not just them, there are also the young pastors [like on the Elephant Room] who wear the overly hip clothing, course I do not care if some man showed up wearing clothes made out of a burlap sack or rags if he preaching the true gospel but the rest makes you wonder. If they are "taught" to dress the same, or influenced to do so where all individiuality is drummed out, how about beliefs, sermons, preaching and in the organizational realm?

The buildings as Lisa has mention are the same, "pillars of jealousy" are mounted on too many churches...steeples, nothing Christian about those. Lots of churches designed along the occult line, pyramids, obelisks, I should do a post on this soon.

Bible Believer said...

Yeah seeing what they teach in seminaries IS sickening, it tells us how they are all being trained and indoctrinated. Everything is global, I scoured a few others, and well, that is a given for them to embrace the one world system. I am sure for these places there has to be some sort of vetting process to even get in, an essay to your personal beliefs, students speaking out or disagreeing with professors would find themselves failing. Independent thinkers forced out. It's has to be happening. In other areas of academia, and more, to have the "wrong" beliefs, means you are out.

Education is definitely infiltrated, there is a reason state colleges have become places where young people become indoctrinated. If anyone here has a child go to college, sit them own and talk to them about this, especially if they go into a field that requires some liberal arts classes. Still remember my college experience with the women studies professor that promoted the "goddess", [I had taken some elective back then] and the endless focus on certain versions of "history" and extreme liberalism I was taught.

Yeah one thing you notice is how many power-brokers have been "jesuit"-educated. Bill Clinton is an example and now the Jesuits are accredidating the seminaries. I wonder where there discernment and judgement is too. How did they get taken over so badly? Isn't there a few actually born again young people that get into these places not knowing what they are about, who protest? I guess all of them are weeded out. Many are false teachers and knowing but there seems to be literally thousands who just do not know any better and they are totally guillible for the whole one world system teaching. It is scary that there many of them sit, reading scripture and the whole disconnect. I agree what a real preacher needs is not taught in a classroom, that means the call and ability to teach, working via the Holy Spirit and discernment. There isn't much warning today OR discernment. I asked if any pastors were reading this blog acouple times, and got no response. The ones I have spoken to, it seems they choose willful ignorance as a way of life, and I suppose that would include not researching or reading anything that questions the status quo on line. The seminaries for the honest ones must have drummed all thinking for themselves out of their minds. They indoctrinate them into going along to get along, don't be a "troublemaker" [like on that Lausanne paper], don't be "divisive"--that message is EVERYWHERE. The Lausanne paper just one example, but I have picked up some of those Leadership magazines, and read acouple, and while they influence them to take "authority" over the flocks, they definitely do not teach them anything about standing strong for God, its all about getting along with the "system". Then you add in the fact that many of the men see being a pastor, as their livelihood, and they are making the decisions that will bring in the most money to advance their "careers".

Definitely the ones who are true believers, find out they are unwelcomed. Look how few publically turn against the "system" and leave a false church or stand against the denomination or where it is going.

Abbey said...

Amen Bible Believer.

I can only speak for the newer church buildings I see around here. The newer ones that are built look like a spaceship up on a hill. You wouldn't know they were churches except for a sign in front.

The transformation of the church I had attended for years began when the pastor went on a summer sabbatical to California. Gee, I wonder where he visited? He was highly influenced by Rick Warren I know for sure. :P

I check the church website occasionally and here are a few things I found.


"It all started in 1975 the year of the Bee Gees, Saturday Night Live, Rocky Horror Picture Show and bad fashion." (What's that got to do with the church?)

"We want to meet you in your COMFORT ZONE, with Biblical teaching and messages (they became life lessons; get enough sleep, exercise, eat right and do daily devotions) that deal with everyday challenges, hopes and heartbreaks. So put on your FAVORITE PAIR OF JEANS or whatever you feel COMFORTABLE in and check us out this weekend to hear the good news of Jesus."

"Bucking the JUDGMENTAL TREND of the time, BCC Church managed to turn itself inside-out into a “prodigal-hugging” church. To this day, the church seeks to provide a NON-JUDGMENTAL atmosphere that is understandable to newcomers, eliminating “christianese” and other barriers."

Clicking on "prodigal" took you to Wikipedia. Why that site and not a Bible site where people could read the parable? The only thing Christian was the mention of Keith Green. Everything else was the mention of the Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox Church (basically the same belief system). Part of the parable is taken from the World English Bible. (My former church used so many Bible perversions, no KJV, that I lost count). Clicking on "christianese" took me to an insulting YouTube video. It's not very long but degrading and worldly none the less. Please watch the video.


Senior Pastor:
Dr. *** has helped to lead *** Community Church since its founding 35 years ago. He holds a doctorate in ministry from Northwest Graduate School in Seattle, Wash. (Received this degree in the last 7 years)
Craig has taught spiritual leadership principles across the country and around the world. He is known for his leadership and communication (jokes) and writing skills that he uses to express his passionate concern for those without a church home. (Sounds like Rick Warrenism to me)

Pastor of Worship & Teaching:
Dave received both a master of divinity and master of theology degrees at Talbot School of Theology in Southern California.

Pastor of Connection (?):
He has a bachelor’s degree in speech communications from Eastern College (now Eastern University) and a master of divinity degree from FULLER Theological Seminary, Pasadena, Calif.

Most of the Emergent church ideas were put into place. Before I left I never heard anything that sounded ecumenical but that may have changed.

Not only are the upcoming pastors being indoctrinated but also supposedly seasoned pastors.

Bible Believer said...

LOL yeah you are right, a lot of the churches do look like spaceships on hills, not just Rome coming out with the pagan trapezoid Cathedrals like our lady of angels in LA. Probably occult archeitecture in many of them, giant spires even in "new ones". Hmm I wondered where your pastor went to, they all send them to sabbaticals, even fundamentalist baptist pastors are sent off to mega-Dominionist brainwashing sessions, at the hands of Sword of the Lord or other groups. I know acouple months ago, I wrote how come there are so many constant seminars and think about the expense of all this, I think we know the reason why.

It looks like they are doing the "culturally relevant" thing, trying to appeal to the movies, rock music and more--Rocky Horror Picture Show? That is one of the most occult shows out there. Yes what does that have to do with the church, more of the dumbing down.Wow they write they want to meet people in their comfort zone, and you'll see that its more of the "have the best life" now, "self-improvement" rhetoric, awful.

Put on your favorite jeans? I wish people would wear something else for once, especially women, I guess I got bored with them, as I have written before they are like the Maoist China USA American UNIFORM. Add in white sneakers, and jeans and a bad T-shirt with company logo on it, and you had millions of people with no individuality.

Makow is disinformation--covers for Rome, but remember when he wrote that jeans were the "drab unisex proletarian vision" of fashion for the masses.

ugh...I hope this isn't a new term they will be using....elsewhere...

“prodigal-hugging” church.

Now forgiveness for prodigals is GOOD, I definitely lived a lot of my life outside the Christian sphere, but what will they be led to repent of in a place that far gone?

"Christianese" what is that? Like Chinese?

Strange, you know when they come up with catch phrases like this, it is for a reason.
and the pastor is part of the "leadership" stuff, yeah glad you got out of there. He does sound like he is hooked into Rick Warrenism.

Oh yes they are going for the pastors even of 20-30 years duration, the seminars, constant classes, magazines and rest are working on that.

michelle said...

There is so much falling away from true teaching going on these days. Modern pastors are teaching a totally false and different gospel than the one Jesus taught. I have written on my blog some posts you might all find interesting. Drop by and tell me what you think

Bible Believer said...

Hi Michelle, I'll stop on over. You are right they do all follow "another gospel".

Anonymous said...

Here is what Isaiah had to say to the sleeping watchdogs who can not bark in ch 56

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

Tomorrow will be even more abundant in the imaginations of these partying drunken dogs.
Totaly drunk on false doctrine.


Bible Believer said...

Shepherds that cannot understand definitely says it all as well as the rest of that verse. We have talked about the ignorance and the greed. Sometimes it is tough to even realize the sheer numbers of the phonies in writing this blog and they play endless games too. Only the fact Christians were warned in the Bible of the Great Falling away explains what has happened. One thing I have noted as well is how they are all "webbed" together so much.