Tuesday, September 27, 2011

Chuck Fromm, Chuck Smith Jr. and Their Persecuted "Bible Study"

This was a great find by news4themasses....

"Chuck Fromm Is...."




If you were reading the news last week, they were discussing this "bible study" that was being threatened with shut down and fines by the local government all over the place! Well it turns out this wasn't a circle of beleaguered bible believers but a very deeply connected Calvary Chapelist, Chuck Fromm who is a nephew of Chuck Smith! Fromm used to own Maranantha music, and holds a Phd from Fuller University.

The meeting was no BIBLE STUDY but CONTEMPLATIVE, which is admitted in the articles:

"They don't think noise or traffic issues are to blame for the citation. There is no music, and the meetings, they say, are largely "contemplative."


Now realize CHUCK SMITH JR. is the ONE leading these Bible studies! Chuck Fromm is a follower of Chuck Smith Jr, Chuck Smith's Emergent son. This is admitted on Fromm's own website:

"Brad Dacus, President of the Pacific Justice Institute (pacificjustice.org), is representing Chuck & Stephanie Fromm, who were fined $300 by the city of San Juan Capistrano for holding a “regular religious meeting” in their home and would need a CUP before doing it again. They were cited in May for holding a Sunday morning Bible Study that drew about 40 people, many of them former members of Calvary Chapel Capo Beach, and Chuck Smith, Jr. has been leading the Bible Study. The arbitrary enforcement of this bad ordinance is egregious and needs to be changed. They were told they would be fined $500 for each additional gathering. They go to Orange County Superior Court in October."


Brad Dacus who is representing them and from the Pacific Justice Institute, as you will see on the original news4themasses link, has been to many Costa Mesa Calvary Chapel conferences. Lest some think that Chuck Smith totally rejects what his son teaches and what he is doing, he does not. While they "parted ways" on the surface, read this part of the LA Times article carefully....

"He stresses how much he loves his son, regrets that he didn't spend more time with him as he grew up: "Surely he's not a clone, and I respect and admire him for that. There's nothing shoddy about his ministry at all."

He shrugs off the controversy as the result of critics who "get on and blog their ignorance," adding: "If you don't march to their drumbeat, they begin to pick at you, and once you put on that hypercritical mode, you can find plenty of things to criticize."

Reminded of the memo he issued cracking down on his son's views, the father replies, calmly and amiably, that he and his son are just aiming for different audiences, and he doesn't want to alienate the one he has. He says their relationship is stronger than ever, even deepened by the controversy.

"I don't feel that he's an apostate at all.

If he would begin to question that Jesus is the son of God, then I would be concerned."


and this...

"Chuck Smith Jr. is pastor at Capo Beach Calvary, which recently removed itself from the Calvary Chapel fellowship of churches—creating more online speculation about possible controversy. Smith Sr. denied any rift. He said that Capo Beach’s ministry is directed toward the postmodern generation, and that style of ministry does not fit within the more conservative Calvary Chapel model."


Sounds like his son is being prepared for the future probably by Chuck Smith himself, and while Chuck Smith Sr separated himself from his son, to placate the mainstream Calvary Chapel members who weren't yet ready for such overt displays of Catholic religiosity, he obviously is OK, with him being a teacher of younger folks.

If anyone wants to know how far gone into Emergent and Catholicism that Chuck Smith Jr is, see here at his website. On the Reflexion video, are some of videos illustrating his teachings, the background looks like he could be at the Fromm home. On his blog, you can see endless discussions of contemplative techniques:

"Quiet sitting will allow us to identify these voices. We will learn to separate one from the other. We will learn to tell the difference from our thoughts, our memories and the voice of God. When these thoughts of ours arise we simple recognize them as thoughts and then return to our breath. Out thoughts will rise and fall; they will come and go."


Here on his Reflexion website, Chuck Smith Jr. comments back to a self-confessed Catholic monk:

"But I have not left the Evangelical church. Then, again, it is difficult to say exactly what I am. I think it is possible to grow in Christ to a place where labels no longer mean anything. I frequently miss the liturgy of the hours that I attended when staying for a month in a hermitage a few years ago. I think if the Protestants who disparage Roman Catholicism would take a closer look at what Catholics actually say and pray before God, they might be surprised to find how it is filled with scripture and fully glorifies God–especially in respect to the Trinity and Incarnation. Also, the one person who has had the most profound influence on my growth in Jesus Christ was a devout monk who lived at the hermitage. He had intense theological training, which marinated in thirty-five years of contemplative spirituality. From our very first conversation, he greeted me with acceptance and the love of Jesus. I never failed to hear or see Jesus in him.

So what am I? I’ve heard it said that I am a Catholic (even though I haven’t taken any Catachism classes or ever attended a mass at any Catholic church–can you “get Catholicism” just by riding on a public bus?), emergent, and new age. But as far as I’m concerned, none of those labels define me. If my love for other Christians and the enjoyment of conversing about Christ with them crosses denominational and sectarian boundaries, does that exclude me from Evangelicalism?"


Read that one over acouple times, this is what the man leading the "bible studies" at the Fromm home believes...

Chuck Smith Jr. has done the sign of the cross, and has gone to Catholic retreats before. He used to be pastor of Capo Beach Calvary Chapel and here was a picture of a "prayer-station" at that church during his tenure.


Here is another quote showing his false teachings:

"In a January 15th sermon, Calvary Chapel Pastor Chuck Smith Jr. ended his message by giving the sign of the cross, a Catholic gesture. In light of the following statement by Smith Jr., this is not too surprising: In his book, The End of the World As We Know It, ... he stated:" More and more Protestant Christians—and we are way behind the Roman Catholics on this score—are discovering a new, yet old way of reading the Bible: lectio divina." p. 103
It appears that Chuck Smith Jr. has jumped on the contemplative/emergent bandwagon."




So going back to Fromm and his story about a persecuted Bible study, obviously this is no "normal" Bible study....As I wrote on the news4themasses blog in the comments, this all seems to be a "set up" to me probably with even deeper deceptions attached to it then we know at this time. Remember how the "order out of chaos" thing works where they take something to the extreme, so laws are passed and something is "normalized"? Well wouldn't some desire the "normalization" of gov't involvement and "control" of Bible studies? Was that the goal? Well it seems to be be heading that way. Otherwise why lie to people about the nature of this group, which is Emergent-Catholic contemplative? Did you notice the Emergent "Catholic" art and candles in the top video?




And why is Chuck Smith's son and Chuck Fromm involved too? Makes one really wonder and what is sad is all the Christians reading this in the news thinking this was a group of true bible believers who are being oppressed!

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow! Completely Satanic! Yes, I saw that in the news, and I got an immediate queasiness in my spirit when I didn't even know any of the names involved. I knew immediately that something was up, and that there was more to it than the innocent poor suffering lambs they pretend to be. And Sr. doesn't fool anyone by his fake separation. We are not fighting flesh and blood here, folks. Satan's trick in his old romish church is being more and more exposed. He has simply been setting up places where "ex" catholics who have not really repented are comfortable, and these money hungry devil's whose consciences are seared, and who were appointed to their destruction, are setting up comfortable beds to receive them where they commit fornication against Jesus Christ while using His name. This sort of thing makes me angry at first, but I quickly am reminded of how the goats MUST be separated from the sheep! Good riddance! I hope they make themselves even MORE obvious. The grosser they are, the more easily they are exposed! For that I praise the Father in Heaven! Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

More and more I believe Calvary Chapel was designed to scoop up the ex-Catholics and others and take them into deception but the evangelical church is fallen away in general. Calvary Chapel is being used as well as many of the other false churches to serve to deceive on the political level as well. So you are right about places being set up to deceive "ex-catholics" who never truly repent or were born again. Hey, the lines are being drawn most definitely.

Labby said...

Wow, who knew it was this bad. I'm even surprised. That altar, err, prayer room is just spooky. There is no room for that in the body of Christ. No room.

This proves BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that all this talk about Rome and the emergent church is correct. The roads are merging together. Our protestant forefathers would be shocked.

news4themasses said...

thanks for linking to me, I like your post much better! I knew better minds would put this together in its proper context. Bravo! Keep contending and exposing.

Bible Believer said...

Labby, while doing this article, I listened to snippets of Chuck Jr's "preaching", he sounds just like a Jesuit or Catholic priest, remember I was Catholic and had the confirmation and youth retreats too.He sounds just like one of them especially this one priest who keep talking about New Age "wholeness" in a retreat I went to in high school.

Yeah it all leads to Rome. Rome is running the Emergent thing as a Counter-Reformation tool and it's worked so well.

Thanks News4themasses, I am glad you figured out this Fromm thing and pointed it out. Shows how they are infiltrating everywhere, and manipulating the news and happenings, and many are unaware.

MijaDeDios said...

oy! I just sent you a few e-mails. the last one is most informative FYEO when you get a chance! Blessings

Anonymous said...

And this is the direct fruit of Chuck Smith's family?

Bible Believer said...

It's his son, so yes it's direct fruit of Chuck Smith's family? What kind of preacher is Chuck Smith, that his own grown son who he says IS a Christian can't even figure out the truth about Rome?

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for your emails mijadedios...

Anonymous said...

Thank God for Christians who have truly lived in Jesus Christ. Thank God that you people are not his only representatives on earth. I am going to share this post and comments with my Bible study group as an example of what I mean when I say "ugly religion."

Thank you for directing me to Chuck Smith Jr.'s website. I found the following most recent post there and was edified by it.

As Jesus was about to go up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside by themselves, and on the way He said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death . . .” Matthew 20:17-18
The reason I chose to spend three hundred and sixty-five days with Jesus in the Gospels was to get to know him through those who lived and traveled with him and whose lives were transformed by his teaching, touch, and person. To know Jesus Christ is the ongoing goal of Christian spirituality (Php. 3:7-10).

In the passage above, Jesus was walking with his disciples into his destiny. There were others on the road with them, but for this particular message he took the twelve aside so that he could speak to them privately. What he had to say was not for the crowd, but only those closest to him.

Why did Jesus tell the disciples what was waiting for him in Jerusalem? I doubt that it was to prepare them for it, because they never understood these brief announcements (Lk. 18:34). True, he wanted to give them notification that these things would happen so they would not stumble, but remember when they happened that he had known they were coming (Jn. 16:1, 4). There was another, more important, reason Jesus unburdened his heart to them.

The stress of what Jesus was carrying proved to be too much for his mortal heart and mind–it was enough to kill him (Mt. 26:38). He wanted to share the burden of his suffering and sorrow with others who loved him. The wonder of it, is that he opened his heart to humans rather than to angels. He showed them his future, but he also let them look into his soul.

Lord Jesus, it is in giving Yourself to us completely that we come to know You. We see in Your pain and grief, experiences that are not unlike our own. Oh Lord, You too know what this feels like. Only in Your case, it is for us that You suffered. Thank You for drawing close to us so that we can draw close to You.

Bible Believer said...

Catholic theology is false, and no matter what "nice" words, Chuck Jr. may mix in or even a few theological truths, about the suffering of Jesus before he went to the cross and later, you will be led down a false road by this teacher, especially when he introduces false contemplative teachings, that lead to 'another jesus".

I will happy for you to share this article and blog with your bible study. But to be fair, please share a few of the other articles that warn about how Catholicism is the harlot and taking people into the one world religion.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/04/one-world-religion-beast-gets-ready-for.html

Anonymous said...

I find that this whole webpage and the synopsis behind it to be somewhat disturbing since firstly I grew up in Capo Beach calvary and now attend Calvary Chapel of Spring Valley, Nevada. Let's analyze this for what it is: Chuck Jr. has not said anything contrary to what true salvation in Christ entails, and that involves 1. Our faith and belief in Jesus as the Son of God, both man and God; 2. That He died on the cross a sinless and guiltless man, but still also as the Son of God, the perfect sacrifice that washed away our sins for all of eternity; 3. That He then rose from the grave 3 days later, appreared to many witnesses as recorded in the gospels and in Acts, and then ascended into Heaven; 4. That for us to receive grace and forgiveness from Jesus, we must believe this to be true and to repent from our sins, accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior into our heart, essentially giving Him control of our lives. There is no way for us to save ourselves; that message is what seperates true Christianity from religions, and as such should always be the barometer for whether or not a church is true in the faith of Christ.

I do agree about the Catholic Church in regards to their organization that in my most humble opinion, they can be categorized in a similar fashion to the church John references in Revelation, the Church of Philadelphia, where they forgot who their first love was. But they are not the only church out there who can be targeted for paganism and ritualism, which is not scriptural. It exists in some Orthodox and Protestant churches as well, and I have seen it first hand. Remember what God's word says about the pasth to destruction versus the path to salvation; Those two roads are very different. I do believe there are saved Christians within the Catholic Church (and other churches who may be misleading what the Bible truely says), but I also believe that rosemary beads, confession (forced in my opinion, not freely given to a priest in the Catholic Church), holy water and hail marys are defintely NOT scriptural.

I feel like there is a lot of anger and judgement going on here, and I only want to say that God's nature is such that He always wants the truth to come to light, and He blesses those who follow His Word. I will say that I am sensitive sometimes to criticism as I see it, but also try to find discernment from my walk with Christ through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

By the way, Calvary Chapel was started by Chuck Sr. as an outreach to the hippies of the 60's, not to scoop up lost Catholics, so I really don't understand at all the reasoning behind some of those accusations I read. And as far as a one world religion, I certainly don't see Hindus, Muslims or Bhuddists coming on board any time soon. Again, vinegar can't mix with oil, so I think we should be more watchful of the one world government, or world economic union, that is coming. The reason why the U.S. is struggling so hard is because we have to drop down to everyone elses level in order for that to happen. Everyone on the planet has to be in trouble in order for this kind of alignment. Just know that the more prophecy that comes true, the closer is Christ's return as well. God Bless all of you and remember Jesus' teaching about the 10 virgins and the wedding - that is one of the most important messages He gave to the saints! Stay strong in Christ and have a blessed day.

Bible Believer said...

Even the Catholic church knows to use some of the evangelical lingo to fool people only thing is grace and much more have different meanings even under the Catholic system, so even if your Chuck Jr. used the same terms, his lack of discernment in recognizing what Rome is, was a very poor fruit. Sadly many buy the falsehood that Rome holds the same gospel just because they use the word "Jesus", forgotten is Rome is having people literally worship pieces of bread and having people kneel before the Eucharist in Eucharist adoration. This is idolatry, and sadly many hear the Christian words. What is salvation to a Catholic? You get to go to Purgatory which has all the features of hell? What about the fact that Rome conducts the greatest blasphemy against God, with their Mass?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/01/satans-masterpiece-catholic-mass-is.html

So what if Rome, claims Jesus Christ was a real figure, or details some of the details of his life. Even demons admit that Jesus Christ is real. There too they fake people out saying belief merely is about accepting that Jesus exists, it is much more. What is biblical belief in JEsus Christ where one is born again? It is being "born again" and having the Holy Spirit indwelling. This world is full of many hell bound people who have not been born again, who admit God exists.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Bible Believer said...

So Chuck JR tries to present Rome as teaching biblical salvation? Guess he will continue Chuck Sr.s work now that Dad has come out and said Catholics are Christians too.

To equate the Catholic gospel of works, sacraments, priestcraft, as the same as the Christian gospel is wrong. They are NOT the same.


Revelation 17-18 warns about Rome.

How long have you been on this blog, have you see the articles about hindu worshipping Catholic cardinals, or even recently the mixed together Masses with native american rituals to false spirits and Catholic priest Medicine men?


Anyone who is saved while in the Catholic church, comes out. This applied to me. A few may disobey from outide pressures but they are in disobedience to God. But no saved person is kneeling before a Catholic wafer and saying Amen to that idol every week. I stopped saying Amen even months before I was saved and came out of the RCC within DAYS of being born again. What is so sad and pathetic, is here I am an ex-Catholic doing my utmost to warn others and telling the truth about Rome and no we have these wolves all muddying the waters, doing their best work for Satan to usher everyone back to Rome.

Does that offend you I consider Chuck Jr. a wolf? Sure I do. We can maybe question how much of it is knowing or not. Now in his case, he may have been unduly influenced via his ecumenical father.

Why do you think there are so many unscriptural practices in Rome?

What about the pictured altar where Chuck Jr, co-opted some of those things?

Wouldn't you rather that Chuck Jr. realize his error and question some of the teachings coming out of Calvary Chapel?

The other day I met someone who had left Calvary Chapel who told me "God is not limited to the Bible", I wonder where they got that from. The influences of that church are negative all over.

Where is discernment if someone can't even recognize the harlot and sees the Pope who has helped to bring all false religions together as a "fellow Christian"?

So what if someone used to be Catholic or not, the gospel should be preached to everyone. Many of those hippies probably even grew up in Catholic households.

So you are going to pooh-pooh the idea of a one world religion when we already have the United Nations joining them together. Remember the UNITY IN DIVERSITY formula, it won't be one giant mega religion but many with the same goals.

This sort of stuff is not happening in your world?

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/02/world-faith-interfaith-harmony-week-at.html

The one world religion and government are working hand in hand...

I hope you can find out the truth, and look beyond what you have learned from Chuck Jr. or Calvary Chapel. Have you read the other Calvary Chapel articles on this blog?

Anonymous said...

wow you guys here are so far off the mark...may God save your souls and deliver you from spewing Satans message of hate!

Bible Believer said...

What message of hate is that?

Chuck Jr. is teaching false Catholicism, and contemplation.

Nothing "hateful" about that, it's just the truth.

Surfpipe said...

Chuck Jr. has an incredible depth of understanding of scripture and has influenced and encouraged many more people in their walk with Jesus than this site could ever accomplish. Sounds like a bunch of judgmental pharisees weighing in here. If you ever met the man and had a personal discussion with him, you certainly wouldn't be voicing the harsh opinions that are based on the fear and divisiveness I am reading here.

Bible Believer said...

How can Chuck JR. Have an incredible depth of understanding scripture if he cannot even discern what the warnings about the harlot and "Babylon" warn of in the Bible?

Doesn't he believe the Bible when it warns of the last days and deception?

How about you?

papsurf said...

http://surphside.blogspot.com/2011/03/descent-of-unbelief-folly-of-chuck.html

At some point Chuck Jr. departed from his belief that hell was a real place. He is quoted in the link above.

Anonymous said...

I am TERRIFIED by the ignorance with confidence that I read on this page. Jesus, help us. I have not found the traditional, evangelical church to be Christ-like at all and I pray for all of you. Your comments betray bitterness, jealousy, and fear-mongering. That is not MY lord.

Bible Believer said...

Teaching the truth about the Catholic church and other false teachings is not fear-mongering. Chuck Jr. is teaching many false things, I have seen his blog for myself.

Anonymous said...

Junior was off the rails for many years. Senior was skirting the rails to appear on them for many years.