Thursday, August 4, 2011

The Movie "Divided": Family Integrated Churches: Yet Another Deception

To Keep this blog entry in context read these two articles...

Where I talk about the Patriarchy Movement.

and "The Duggars, Bill Gothard and Vision Forum"

This video is right about the moral breakdown in society, and how there is age division in the churches but their answer is WRONG...They are a new trend called THE FAMILY INTEGRATED Church which has come out of the patriarchy movement.

Divided Trailer from NCFIC on Vimeo.

Divided: Is Age-Segregated Ministry Multiplying or Dividing the Church?There is a crisis. Christian youth are rapidly leaving evangelical churches for the world. This well-recognized disaster has been the topic of significant discussion in recent years for both church leaders and modern news media. DIVIDED follows young Christian filmmaker Philip LeClerc on a revealing journey as he seeks answers to what has led his generation away from the church. Traveling across the country conducting research and interviewing church kids, youth ministry experts, evangelists, statisticians, social commentators, and pastors, Philip discovers the shockingly sinister roots of modern, age-segregated church programs, and equally shocking evidence that the pattern in the Bible for training future generations is at odds with modern church practices. He also discovers a growing number of churches that are abandoning age-segregated Sunday school and youth ministry to embrace the discipleship model that God prescribes in His Word.

From the Divided website...

Is family integration more important than the gospel? (Show Answer)
The issue of age-integrated discipleship and how it relates to every ministry in church life is not of central importance. However, what makes the issue extremely important is that it drives a discussion about something that is central – the authority of Jesus Christ in His Church. It causes us to ask a most important question: “Are the words of Christ sufficient?” “Has he spoken enough to us in order to govern ministry to youth and families and the lost?” This divisive issue raises hackles that must be tamed by Scripture alone.

I can tell this stuff is growing out there seen as an answer to the "modern" churches but instead of freedom of each believer following the Holy Spirit, they put forth patriarchy as the answer..where they teach every child or grown adult child is to obey their earthly father blindly and wives are to be blindly obedient to husbands.

We long to see churches reformed. This will cause a generation to be rescued from this world and grasped from the jaws of the lion (1 Pet. 5:8). Therefore, we cry out for churches to do their part, for fathers to disciple their children, for churches not to usurp the authority of the family, for families to be a part of the church in a biblical fashion and not forsake her, for children to honor their parents — ultimately, for both church and family to return to the Word of God in obedience and not add or subtract from it in all that it says.

This vision involves reformation of the church and family, and it cannot be accomplished without the mighty working of God. Pray for a reformation, and put in the effort to see it through. James 2:17 says, “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”

Family Integrated churches are STRONGLY linked to Dominionism as well. Vision Forum which I have written about before in this blog entry "The Duggars, Bill Gothard and Vision Forum" definitely goes together with the Family Integrated stuff.

I know several homeschoolers and I know this stuff is entering those groups like gangbusters, influencing them very strongly as well, with idealized notions about the "perfect" family. If you know folks who speak of "courting", having their daughters be "Stay At Home Daughters" and who teach that even adult children must obey their earthly fathers, or that wives must submit unquestioningly to their husband, chances are you have encountered some of these groups.

Why all the stress on parental authority and authority of the family? I suppose patriarchy could definitely set things up to have more totalitarian thinkers who can be more easily controlled by the system. It is odd to me watching this whole Dominionist Christian culture grow from outside, we got the liberal evangelical world and then this one, which is just as false...

There are many well meaning "Christians" who are being drawn into this culture, which speaks of a perfected "Christian world" with moral values being held up, nothing wrong with that but it is an advancement of the culture wars lies, and actually leading many into self-righteousness, legalism, and a religious system built on false traditions and family biological ties instead of reaching out to unbelievers and following the Holy Spirit. The approach towards women is scary and I wrote about that on my Patriarchy article in more full depth.

Who is Philip LeClerc? the one behind this film. He seems to have a very strange look to his eyes...well some of you will know what I mean and may see it too.

He has been featured on the Vision Forum website....

He has Vision Forum linked on his personal blog.

Don't forget Vision Forum gave even Michelle Duggar a mother of a year award.

Now some may think this is just a fringe movement, I believe it is growing, in Christian magazines, writings and other circles, I am seeing its strong influences, including even in many fundamentalist churches. I notice a strong collusion with the politicians and other movers and shakers involved in this movement, don't forget even with the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, [basically a patriarchy outfit] they have some high level well known Christian right leaders on there.

From another article to help people get a grasp on what I am talking about...even though this is from a secular non-Christian website, they are right about it's facets...

Recently I was looking at a thread on a Web forum for women who’d escaped from the Quiverfull/Christian Patriarchy (QF/CP) movement. For those unfamiliar with QF/CP, it’s a faction within fundamentalist Christianity, some of whose proponents are Doug Phillips of Vision Forum, Mary Pride, R.C. Sproul, Jr., Voddie Bauchum, and Nancy Campbell. It’s been popularized by the Duggar family’s TV reality show (they have 19 children at the time of this writing), and made infamous by Rusty Yates who, goaded by a fanatical minister, coerced his clinically psychotic wife Andrea to continue having baby after baby until she finally snapped in June, 2001, drowning her five children in the bathtub of their Houston home. (Rusty went on to remarry and is now siring replacement children.)

The word “Quiverfull” is taken from Psalm 127: 4, 5, which reads:

As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

In a nutshell, the QF/CP movement bans all forms of birth control; families should have “as many children as God gives them.” These children are homeschooled for the most part, in the hopes that they’ll become an army of the Lord’s mighty warriors who, through sheer demographic force, reclaim America for God. Females are kept in perpetual servitude from earliest childhood, where they are considered the property of their fathers and spend their days caring for younger siblings. When a girl reaches puberty she must pledge her virginity/purity to her father (often in writing). Once the father finds a suitor to his liking, he transfers his ownership of the young lady to her husband. Adult women in the movement are not allowed to work outside the home, and usually forbidden to speak in church (obviously, they can never be ordained!). And based upon a quirky interpretation of an obscure biblical passage (Isaiah 3:12), they are also forbidden to vote.

Lurking beneath the QF/CP lifestyle lies the teachings of R.J. Rushdoony, the leading exponent of a dire and militant form of Calvinism called “Christian Reconstructionism.” In his massive tome Institutes of Biblical Law, he advocated the overthrow of modern democracy, replacing it with a theocratic state in which all the laws of Leviticus are imposed (including the death penalty for disobedient children, adulterers and homosexuals). Also, as per his reading of the Bible, the theocratic state would reintroduce slavery. Hard-line QF/CP believers think that creating a population explosion of their own is the most effective means of bringing this dystopic vision to fruition.

I know even trying to talk about the deceptions here, is not easy, I believe in people living moral lives in obedience to God, [though directed via the leading of the Holy Spirit, but not via government or demands of a would-be Christian biological father on earth as an adult]. Homeschooling is good too, as well as many other things, but can you see how a false view of "Christianity" is being skewed and used for evil ends and control here? These Vision Forum/Family Integrated leaders use a lot of biblical language, but it is for naught, it is being used for an evil agenda. Remember Vision Forum supports the 7 Mountains Concept as well.

more from the movie...[this is an excerpt from Divided where Doug Phillips of Vision Forum speaks...]

Notice how he elevates the "father" of families...desiring more patricharcy, and talks about children leaving behind their parents. Many Christians have parents who were not even Christians to start with.

Never forget the two sides against the middle set up that is used for deception all the time.

Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.


Anonymous said...

The Duggars say in their new book that they are not part of the Quiverful Movement and give the reasons why(page 92 of A Love That Multiplies). I knew that just from watching them on tv. I think Ken Ham of the Creation Museum agrees about the history of age segregation in schools and churches by the look of some of his books in the catalog. I had 6 children and some of them did not want to go to children's church so we went to churches where they would be allowed to stay with us-in back of the church. I do like seeing infants and children in church. So many churches have all the children in children's church and nurseries- there are no children allowed in the services due to taping. Our Conservative Baptist church has taping and allows children to be with the parents. Children get sick from other children in the nurseries and you have to worry about predators. I trusted God for how many children we had but I don't consider us part of the Quiverful Movement. I do get Above Rubies magazine and have discernment. I am not of the Reformed theology. We do have Voddie Baucham's (Baptist)book,What He Must Be if he wants to marry my daughter. I recommend it. We only use the KJ Bible.

Anonymous said...

I also have Mary Pride's great books-The Way Home,etc. We home educate our children with Christian textbooks that use KJ Scriptures. Mary Pride has written about Patriarchy on her web site,, and she is not part of that. Her magazine is Practical Homeschooling and anyone who has read that or her many books knows that.

Bible Believer said...

Hi Welcome to the blog.

I had heard that about the Duggars, I guess they do want to distance themselves from the extremes of Quiverful, but they are still associated with Vision Forum. Suppose I need to get their book and read it. I would see the Duggars as being part of the patriarchy movement. With the age segregation, I do not mind Sunday School for children, and think it can work well if done right, but there should be as much Bible study at home if not more. One age segregation that is even worse, is the separation from young adults from older more wise adults especially in modern churches that have their contemporary vs. traditional services. They ignore Bible verses about the elder folks teaching the younger. That definitely isn't happening in many of the churches out there. So even Divided is right about some of those things, but sadly bringing their own deceptions.

I think whether children are with parents or not should always be by choice of those parents. In the larger churches, where they do not know the nursery or teaching staff, I would be concerned as a parent as well. I had heard about one church where children were not allowed in the sancutary during services and felt that was very wrong.

What do you think of Above Rubies? One thing about these movements is they do have some Christian truths about morality or even in the case of that magazine dealing with a large family, but sadly they are taking women into false patriarchy, idealizing times of a 100 years past, and actually marginalizing Christian women who may be single, or childless or with smaller families while bringing in a false gospel, where obedience is not to God, but to one's father, husband or pastor.

This is one thing about the whole *CULTURAL CHRISTIAN* stuff, the lifestyle is not open to all people, and when Christians are supposedly all large extended families in close knit rural villages all attending the same church--rare nowadays, living idyllic circa 1870 lives, it gets weird to Christians [which are quite numerous] who came out of non-Christian families, or may not match the "cultural" lifestyle that is advanced. This patriarchy stuff operates as a "closed system" almost like the Amish, but without the benefits of a close knit helping community system like the Amish have. Who are the children going to marry for instance if there are few born again KJV reading Christians about? I believe Christians should marry only other Christians, but the "courting and patriarchy" rules add far too heavy burdens to the young people.

The whole "courting" thing strikes me as odd, where parents basically choose the child's spouse. This idealizes family life, often children go their own independent way when they are grown and SHOULD. Train a child in the way they should go, but I do not think means choosing their spouse for them. In the case of my own life, that would have meant being told to marry someone Catholic and in fact when I did not marry a Catholic [he grew up in a mainline Protestant church], some relatives banned the wedding. I think that book looks good. "What He Must Be" everyone should prepare their daughters to choose certain qualities over others even if I have concerns about the moving into "courting". Better to train one's daughters to know what to look for and to stay away from. I sometimes wonder if any of the older Duggar daughters will marry, it seems they may actually be over-sheltered even from meeting nice Christian men that would make good husbands.

I am glad there are some in the homeschool movement who warn against Patriarchy. I am a supporter of homeschooling so hope folks understand that, especially as the public schools have become more about indoctrination instead of education. Also understand economics do not allow all parents to homeschool.

I stick to the KJV too myself.

Anonymous said...

Mary Pride talks about Andrea Yates in her book,Complete Guide to Getting Started in Homeschooling(pages 36,37). When legal marriage started, it took away parental approval. There are churches that marry using a Bible to record the marriage,etc.( article on the subject) without a marriage license. I never thought my son would have convinced me against legal marriage. The Plan was over time to open the door for other types of marriage-we live in New York. Of course, the Reformers want marriage legal. We have 3 (legally) married sons(with daughters-in-law) with our grandchildren(we did have a conflict about infant baptism come up- we were married in a Baptist church and still attend one). They were raised to court(courtship). The intent is marriage. I think the older Duggars will marry. They fellowship with other home educators with large families. That's how their oldest son met his wife-they now have 2 children. I have used books from Christian Liberty Press(Reformed theology). I won't use their history books. We have had the Vision Forum catalog in our house but we have discernment. I do not celebrate the Catholic holidays-Easter,St. Patrick's Day, St.Valentine's Day and Christmas(Jesus was born during the Jewish holidays in Sept./Oct.) so it is difficult for me to go on Reformers' blogs even those who home educate. Plus the Reformers are not King James only.

Anonymous said...

I just want to say that Above Rubies magazine is mostly letters/articles. Nancy Campbell usually writes the first article and then she publishes letters. They offer good resources like Randy Alcorn's book-Does the Birth Control Pill cause Abortions? Sometimes one of Nancy Campbell's daughters will give a recipe or write an article on nutrition. There is no subscription-only a donation. After watching the video- I think Doug Philips is saying to remember Eli(Hannah and Samuel's story) who didn't disciple his two sons and let's not be like him. I have many of Cathy Burns's books and I do not like Promise Keepers,etc.

Anonymous said...

Since I mentioned The Plan,one of the best books I have read is Lisa Ruby's, God's Wrath on Left Behind(libertytothecaptives). A low cost home education curriculum(Christian and KJ Scriptures) is Rod and Staff(Conservative Mennonite). They have workbooks for the younger grades and hardcovers in the older grades. Abeka books(KJ) is low cost if you don't buy the teacher's manuals and use the workbooks as textbooks(don't write in the older grades books-use paper). You can then reuse them or sell them. articles/book reviews)(KJ) is another one. They use Rod and Staff science.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed the Duggar's first book as well but I don't like their choice of computer learning-Alpha Omega Publications,etc. I do read their friends' learn more about courting-this is interesting).

Bible Believer said...

I would like to see what she said about Andrea Yates, they definitely sound like they were in a cult, and I was surprised the husband didn't get a neglect charge for leaving a woman in full blown psychosis with young children. I am not sure about the no legal marriage thing just haven't studied that issue, I suppose there is an argument for not having the state involved and in the old days people who lived all over definitely weren't registering every marriage at the courthouse, it does seem it would cause some legal difficulties though or claims of "living in sin". Yeah they are opening marriage to all sorts of definitions with the homosexual "marriage" and I dare say they will bring in the pologamists and polyamourous next, softening up the public with shows like "Sister Wives". I do not believe in infant baptist, it is definitely false and out of Romanism. I am glad your sons have their families and are exploring some of these issues as well. I do not mind some aspects of "courtship", I do worry it may be used as a control thing in some abusive families with abusive "patriarchs"and some parts taken to the extreme. Obviously what Christian parent wants to send their young adult child into the sordid world of modern dating? . At least in case of Duggars, the parents do seem to care about and love the children. I do hope the young daughters can find their mates among the family friends, that is how it happened for Josh afterall.

Yeah I do not agree with Reformed churches, have blog entry here against Calvinism. I know homeschoolers have to be careful of false programs, and more, the Alpha and Omega Publications, the idealized Dominionism version of American history in the books. The best home schoolers make sure to look everything over and teach from different sources.

I do not celebrate any of the holidays either. There is too much Roman Catholicism in the Reformed churches, and Calvin was a false teacher, they look to Rome's early church councils and other errors. I have read some of their books and read some websites like Pyromaniacs too.
I guess if you read Above Rubies, discerning while doing so there seems to be useful information in there for those with large families and recipes.

That is one thing the Vision Forum people do have some truth like Phillips talking about how children can go wrong, modern dating that harms so many young people spiritually, and the break-down of the family are serious matters but sadly they are using it as a vehicle for false doctrines, power and politics.

I read Cathy Burn's books too, have you ever read the one "Billy Graham and Friends"? That book was a valuable resource for me. "God's Wrath on Left Behind" is a great book as well, it woke me up about LaHaye and many false teachings from that direction. I have Lisa Ruby's website right on this blog to the left...Liberty to the Captives, check that out, it has a lot of good writing and discernment ministry items.
It sounds like you have been able to find good homeschool resources, thanks for sharing them here for my readers.

I will check out the Bates blog too, thanks for sharing that.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I have the Billy Graham book. I think I found your website through libertytothecaptives. Mary Pride goes into detail about the prescription drugs Andrea Yates was given. She explains the doses and when they were increased and decreased. Mary Pride writes about one thing the husband said in regard to the medications. I have a daughter(21) with Type I diabetes(not caused by diet) so I am a lot more realistic than some. She lives at home and works- for the insurance,etc.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Regarding women voting-I encouraged my daughter to vote and now I regret it because of the jury duty connection. She received her letter for jury duty right away. If you don't respond soon enough they send you a second notice letter. I have to watch my 4 grandchildren but that's not good enough for jury duty exemption because there are daycares. My daughter has a baby as well. I sometimes wonder if there will be forced jury duty if you vote in the future. I tell my 3 daughters-in-law about the connection of voting and jury duty. I tell them how I have received the jury duty letters and have written them back and the replies I have received. Our family doesn't want to put our children in daycare. I don't want my daughters-in-law having to deal with those letters when they are on maternity leave. It doesn't matter if you home educate your children,either.

Bible Believer said...

I think jury duty serves a purpose for the community but now with so many pressing obligations including such a small pay to replace work pay, it really is a burden on people. I don't think it should be that way. Sad to say, they probably would not take financial need into consideration with the day-care requirement. For federal jury duty, they will at times expect 100 mile plus trips, I am not sure if they pay for your gas or way to get there or anything else.

With voting, I did used to vote, but finding out what I did about even the third party parties, they are "owned" as well. Even trying to vote to keep the worse ones out, is an exercise in futility, as well as a too much of a compromise, the new world order connected will always win. I do not think voting beyond the proverbial dog catcher and town mayor in a super small rural town, is even legit anymore. The Bildenbergers choose who gets in and they make sure the number matches for the president.
Rather tragic for our country, that something as basic as voting seems to have been skewed, and with the use of the electronic ballot boxes there is even more room for deception. I am sorry your daughter has been so burdened, I do think you can make claims either financial, health and other hardships to be exused from jury duty, of course this probably would be different considering what jurisdiction.

Bible Believer said...

Hi other anon, I am glad you have that Cathy Burn's book, I have read most of her books, including one on the NWO and also on Eastern Star--that one is good in exposing Freemasonary. Speaking of Eastern Star, I have loved the Laura Ingalls Wilder books for years, but finding out she belonged, was sort of a disappointment as well of what become of her in eternity not discerning the truth of Eastern Star. The Billy Graham book is very good, and there you can see the endless connections with Billy Graham and other new world order notables.

I would like to read some of what Mary Pride wrote on the Yates case. They definitely were in with a false preacher. I do think medication is necessary for many health problems, with Yates though you wonder about the spiritual aspects, especially with the endless mentions of Satan regarding what she did to the children. She even told them she thought she was possessed.

Anonymous said... has articles and book reviews that talk about the Eastern Star and Laura Ingalls Wilder. They also have info on the Anne of Green Gables author-L.M.Montgomery, the Little Women author-Louisa May Alcott, C.S.Lewis and his friend Tolkien,etc. That post on cathedrals and sun worship is interesting. I'd like to read that book. Thank you. I do have the New World Order book(that quote about miscegenation on page 28 was interesting-I wrote the author a letter and she wrote me back. I have a "black" granddaughter. I see the goals of one religion,one government and even one "race") and the Eastern Star by Dr. Cathy Burns. I am studying the subject of "race" using answersingenesis's book-One Race,One Blood(Acts 17:26 KJ),etc.

Bible Believer said...

I went and checked out their article. I am not sure about the "obey" in wedding vows, being against the patriarchy movement but then I do believe women are follow the husband as the leader of the home, so have to pray on that one a bit. I married before I became a Christian believer. I loved the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, have read and researched others and still a lot appeals to me, probably the descriptions of society way back then, the historical factors, but finding out about the Freemasonry in the family has been a deep concern, even Pa Ingalls was a Freemason as well as Ma, being in Eastern Star. It is odd, you read about them going to church but we know in nominal Protestant churches back then that Freemasonry was mixed in. Obviously they were all lacking discerment which is quite disappointing. I wonder how common was Eastern Star back then? If Charles was a 33rd degree, that is not good that means he knew more of what was going on then the ones on the lower levels. Sometimes I find myself thinking does anyone "ordinary" ever become famous, even for good writing or are they all connected? I didn't believe this when I first heard it but on all the museum websites etc, they admit the Freemasonary in the family....

I have read Rose Lane Wilder's writings, she seemed to be an early feminist for the time and adhered to very radical viewpoints including a odd penchance for Ayn Rand and extreme libertarianism and odd vists to Albania. I have to admit the daughter definitely seems a few steps ahead in bringing forth "other agendas", she actually was by far the more famous author for years, though nowadays she is more an unknown. Even the book, "Let the Hurricane Roar" seems to be her seeking to emulate Ayn Rand's hyper individualistic "super-men" type characters.

I'll have to check out the quote you are talking about not sure I remember it. I think the USA was meant as the melting pot to bring forth the one world government, we obviously see that via the United Nations. Acts 17 says every race is of the same blood so that shows the falsehoods of endless false lies out there from anti-semitism to those ones into Christian Identity and other evils.

Bible Believer said...

Oh one thing with CS Lewis and Tolkien, they are bad news...have posted on that a bit on the blog too...LOL

Anonymous said...

I think keepersofthefaith is Conservative Mennonite-KJ, Headcoverings,Nonresistance,etc. I read somewhere that some people think Laura Ingalls Wilder's daughter,Rose, really wrote the Little House series. Rose was a journalist at one time if I remember correctly.

Bible Believer said...

That theory has ranged. I remember this one libertarian magazine claiming she wrote the majority of the books, [named Liberty] and then this other author [historian out of Missouri] wrote it was more a collaborative effort with both working back and forth. I do think without Rose, either way, the Little House on the prairie books, probably wouldn't have come into being and Laura Ingalls would have stayed a locally known farm author but not much more.

Anonymous said...

I am born again and I read your blog and you do not use much Bible in your blog to refute family worship. You just have opinions and no Bible. I was a minister for 15 years in the Pro Sunday school (communist) movement and the fruit of it tells the truth about itself. You need to watch another movie called "Demographic Winter." We take "be fruitful and multiply" literally in our family. Whether naturally or by adoption God can and will bless the family institution.

Bible Believer said...

Define "family worship"?

I do not know what world you live in, where an entire family is born again. That is rare itself alone. What of the born again Christian where they are the only born again one in the entire family network? Are you a Communist? I do not know about that movement. Be careful you are not deceived by the Right and or Left Deception. I do not agree with a movie like Demographic Winter, that is nonsense even for America. It ignores reality of the pollution and extreme crowds in India and China--I know people who have gone over there. I am old enough, that I can remember the days when even our own country was far less populated, and where one could travel without being overtaken by endless traffic and crowds just about everywhere. It is just more propaganda being used by those with a certain agenda. Dominionists are pushing for the retaking of the earth, via "demographics". Such foolishness. Some have idolized family to the extreme. Jesus Christ warns of family members even betraying each other. what does your religious movement have to offer a born again Christian who has left a family in a false religion such as Catholicism? Nothing. You can not get to heaven having as many children as possible. Children are a blessing but the Quiverful stuff is another deception I have written about.

Why are you listening to Knights of Malta people like Pat Buchanan? [he wrote Death of the West, and pushed this whole "Demographic Winter" theme even years ago.

Anonymous said...

Hello from Australia! Can anyone give an opinion on NCFIC? I'm about to go to a conference where Scott Johnson and Kevin Swanson are speaking. I've enjoyed listening to them and reading Scott's book. Can anyone tell me if they push head coverings, women wearing dresses, no use of contraception,or an unquestioning submission from wives?
Many thanks!