Sunday, July 17, 2011

Prasch: Camping's Lies Leads to Trouble for Vietnamese Christians

"Rapture real Aftermath: Beheadings, Shootings, Mass Graves"

"Vietnam Massacre of Hmong Christians"

"Prasch routinely travels and meets with members of the Christian body worldwide. A recent trip took him to Vietnam, where a large number of the Hmong tribal peoples of the nation's Central Highlands are Christian.

They are referred to in the West as Montagnards.

They had heard of Camping's prophecy and not having sophisticated methods for evaluating its validity, took it literally, he explained.

The result, for many, was death, Prasch reported in an email to supporters:

After listening to a translation of Camping's prediction 7,000 of these people (known in the West as Montagnards) gathered on a mountain praising God their suffering at the hands of the communist regime was about to end because Jesus was returning that day in May to establish a new kingdom,.

The police and military police slaughtered many of them at gunpoint – beheading two pastors. Others were arrested. I am told by Hmong pastors that so many were shot dead that they were buried in mass graves bulldozed over in an episode that I read about in Britain but did not understand the magnitude of until I got here.

Prasch reported that he spoke to a secret meeting of Hmong pastors to explain to them "false prophets and false teachers."

"Due to a combination of poverty, ignorance and persecution these poor Christians don't understand much so they believed Camping's shortwave broadcast which is how most get their teaching," he said.

Now "their families don't know if their missing loved ones are among the many shot dead, among those arrested and imprisoned, or among those from the 7,000 hiding in the jungle," he said."

How absolutely horrible, we should pray for those people regarding everything that has happened to them.....

I found this whole thing rather odd, even if someone is totally ignorant, and not taught right, wouldn't the Holy Spirit warn at least some of them? Why didn't any of their pastors read to them the verse warning that only the Father knows the time? ...Matt 24:36: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Of course I do not know if the scriptures were available to them or their level of literacy, but why didn't they know of that verse and were unable to apply it?

Christians do NOT need sophisticated methods to judge the validity of what false hirelings and preachers preach. God's Word will suffice. If anything these poor people who I feel absolutely horrified for, seemed to make decisions, that were based on listening FIRST to a false preacher [why did they trust him so much in even just coming from America?, talk about a recipe for disaster!]instead of keeping God's Word in their hearts or even having access to it.

Sadly, perhaps whoever they followed never read that scripture to them or knew it themselves. For their pastors to lead them to a mountain top--unbiblical in itself, seems strange too. They may have 'meant' well but been horrible misinformed. And why are they getting most of their teaching from false radio pastors instead of scripture? Even if they do not have Bibles in their language [or they are forbidden or rare] or are illiterate, why wouldn't some pastors read them scripture or preach it to them? Didn't they become Christians in the first place hearing the Word of God?

What "sophisticated methods" are needed beyond God's Word and teaching and leading of the Holy Spirit? The Christians in the time of the Bible were simple people often poor, dependent on having scripture preached to them. They were able to recognize false teachers. I don't want to sound like I am "blaming" these poor people, I am not, they are victims of a horrible oppressive evil government as well, but they have been failed along the line or for some reason lack basic discernment. False prophecy does lead to death and destruction. That is a given time and time again in scripture. The followers of the father of lies, bring a wide path of destruction in their wake, we know Camping has already wrought horrible things here even with misled people in America selling all their possessions now unable to provide for their families and a girl in Russia committing suicide. Judging by the fruits, they are wholly negative.

What is happening to the churches in America, with them falling away, is happening WORLD WIDE. Lausanne and groups like it, have their tentacles all over the place, there are the false giant Pentecostal behemoth churches fooling the likes of Latin American and South Asia. Obviously in Vietnam, the Protestant churches are horribly oppressed.

WASHINGTON, DC, May 2, 2005 (Freedom House) — The government of Vietnam is stepping up its persecution of minority Christians, according to detailed accounts received recently by Freedom House’s Center for Religious Freedom
One interesting thing to study is the Catholic role in Vietnam and behind the war in Vietnam....

I find the whole thing horribly sees the damage hirelings like Camping manage to create WORLDWIDE! With Prasch visiting them, I hope he does not introduce more false teachings to them. Why only preach to the pastors about false teachers? Perhaps he had another meeting but all of them should have been warned. Prasch does warn about some false teachers, and teaches some truths and warns about a few deceivers like Rick Warren but there is much to be concerned about especially when false teachings come in which I have talked about regarding Prasch on this blog before. Does anyone know if Prasch has mentioned any of Roger Oakland's recent warnings regarding the Jesuit infiltration into Calvary Chapel? Here is his defense of Chuck Smith from some years ago. Considering that Prasch teaches at many Calvary Chapels and conferences or at least used to, has any word been said?

Writing this blog entry was very difficult, because I do not want to be seen as stomping on people who have already suffered so much, but the message that got me, was at least the implying that these Christians were fooled by a hireling due to their poverty and ignorance, and lack of "sophistication". That is wrong! The most humble Christian with access to God's Word and the teaching of the Holy Spirit can detect a false teacher.

Anyhow for the Vietnamese Christians, my message is they should be directed to God's Word not the celebrity preachers and hirelings spouting lies from the West like Camping. Nothing "sophisticated" is needed, they need to turn to the leading of the Holy Spirit for discernment and study God's Word. This is the message they need to be given.


Anonymous said...

BB, I totally agree. The early Congregation wasn't sophisticated and there was also false prophets and teachers in that day. The Holy Spirit doesn't leaven people high and dry. But something is missing from this story. Why exactly were they slain? Is it because they are not allowed to be Christians? Is it because they are not allowed to congregate? Is it because they went out in the open that day?

But the bottom line is this, those pastors were not teaching them the Truth. They were led astray. You have to ask yourself--were the pastors also illiterate? I seriously doubt that. Yet they are the ones who believed it and led their sheep over the cliff. Had the pastors been teaching the Word the way it was given, none of their fold would have been taken by surprise. I also suspect that they had been learning the false pre-trib rapture stuff. That alone would lead them astray. Prasch teaches that doesn't he? So if he's in contact with them, that seems to be the type of pastors that were teaching those people. It's really more than a Camping issue. There is a deeper cause--false eschatology. False prophets. False teachers.

We may say in our comfy cushy homes here in the west that it doesn't matter whether it's pre, mid, or post--Christ will come and gather us. But what about people who are suffering horrible persecution? Don't you think that it matters to them? In their suffering--coupled by the fact that their pastors obviously led them astray--they were tempted to accept any hand holding out some sort of escape. In other words, rather than Faith, they were suffering fear. But doesn't Faith comes by the hearing of the Word? Yes, it does. Then what happens when instead of the Word, they are hearing false teachings? They don't receive Faith, that's what happens. Those pastors were woefully unqualified to be in their positions if they didn't know something as rudimentary as the fact that we cannot know the day of the arrival of Jesus Christ.

I'm afraid that we in the west may also be in for a deadly surprise, and many may fall away because of it. Teaching the true eschatology is most certainly important. It gives people the Faith that prepares them for the possible eventuality that they may have to die for the sake of the Gospel, as many, many before us have. Those people there in that country could still have eventually died for their Faith even if they had not been deceived, but instead it seems they may have died for a false cause. That is the saddest part of all. What will be the outcome of those who survived? The outcome will be that the false believers' love shall grow cold in their disillusionment and they shall fall away. But praise be to the Father! Those with the genuine Faith shall remain in the hands of Jesus Christ because no one is able to snatch them from His hand.

Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

Sorry, typo. It's not "leaven" but "leave". Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

Hi Anon,

So much about this story is fishy, and doesn't add up. Yes who translated the messages on the radio and why? Camping speaks English...

I was only two weeks in as a Christian, and yes while I am more educated and have more resources, knew to go buy a KJV Bible and that Van Impe was a false preacher [among many others] for instant, and back then was just a babe in the woods. Many of us especially once we were born again can attest to the Holy Spirit leading our steps, and no we are not perfect but for a teacher as blatantly false as Camping, even their pastors never asked any questions? It seems to be that they were killed by their evil Communist govt for their congregating out in open, and what they were doing was seen as an "open protest".

You are right the bottom line, is their pastors failed them and did not teach them the truth. I found myself asking why did Prasch go have a 'secret" meeting with the already shown to be false pastors? Was the meeting secret because of the govt? Why not warn the people in general? Why warn false prophets of false prophets? How could Prasch even see those guys as teaching any truth, when they couldn't even get a basic such as "date-setting" down? I am pretty sure Prasch teaches a pre-trib Rapture. So here in America, as this place implodes, when economic destruction shows its full teeth and war comes, all the nominal Christians holding hope in the "great escape" will fall away. I am realizing more and more myself [and yes this took time for the Holy Spirit] to show me how the Pre-Trib teachings point away truths about who the Antichrist is and leave people open for more deception. One thing too notice, they expected Jesus Christ's immediate return [and Campings rapture] leading one to question what about all the prophecies of Revelation? There is so much they were not taught or paid attention to. I guess I was trying to think of reasons why the pastors failed so miserably, wondering if they were illiterate too, but then who taught them the gospel in the first place? You are right it is doubtful. If they had been teaching and believing God's Word, they would have not been deceived by someone as obvious as Camping, and would have paid attention to God's warnings. Sadly they set their own flock up for destruction. I do not like the idea of Prasch being the pastor who travels to them to supposedly hand them truth? So many false teachings there, and subtle ones too. Will he praise Billy Graham to them as well, as I heard Prasch do on a conference lecture? Even if Prasch criticizes some aspects of BGEA and Graham on his website, this praise, really bothered me hearing it for myself. Where is HIS discernment? I would love to ask. Also not a word regarding what Roger Oakland has warned of. Warning about Rick Warren but then praising one of the worse wolves to the skies? That is often what many of the false preachers do is warn about some deceivers but then leave allowances for other wolves. Also considering the persecution coming for all Christians, and Catholic involvement in Vietnam, what good will false pre-Trib teachings do for them and Prasch's false Christian Zionism and pro-secular nation of Israel stances instead of the real Israel of the Bible?

You are right false eschatology helped lead these poor people into being a target for their oppressive govt. Look how religious right politicians in America have misused Rapture teachings, to defend false wars of conquering and to call down fire on enemies. What will happen here, when the Rapture does not take place when people expect it?

Bible Believer said...

One thing that got me thinking about Rapture and pre-trib, was persecution is happening now, people are dying now and being imprisoned, so why is the war on the saints seen as something in the distant distant future? Every pretrib teacher teaches that. There is a war on now and has gone on for centuries, people dying for the gospel. You are right it does matter to them. What do they think when they hear the message that the time of persecution of the saints is not here yet? So many out of touch suburban churches teaching this thin shallow "Christianity" where no adversity is ever discussed, that would break the "be positive" message of the human potential movement types. Those people definitely being set up for disaster when bad stuff happens. These churches are fully of the world and system, and they want to keep the blinders on everyone. Same for this church in Vietnam. Those people were deceived by the pastors, who left them spiritually unprepared and fooled. It's not just happening in America.

You are right, they took the hand of fear in accepting Campings teachings. Doesn't fear fuel a lot of false teachings here in America, where people choose delusion rather then reality because it's too "scary" to face facts, and the held out hand of the 'Best Life" now types or "Pre Trib" and or Dominionist types who push a Christian America "conquering" the world for "Christ." These are folks led to have their ears itched and to be given teachings that appealed to other things rather then true faith in God. Why would anyone believe Camping? They see instant escape, the Rapture is coming! Horrray! and sadly in the case of the Vietnamese Christians here, who suffer under an opressive regime, one can see the thinking..that led those poor people into that trap....

Yes many here have warned about the deadly surprise coming to America. Tell American Christians what could be coming, and they think you are insane. They are blind to Rome having more and more control here, and how the churches have been utilized to help advance the police state, grid of control and endless wars [think back to those Calvary Chapel articles praising the wars in the Middle East I recently put up here] and the agenda of the elites. They are being marched off to the Antichrist basically, and worshipping a false "Christ", that their false teachers never refer to as Jesus Christ but "Christ". I believe many will fall away when tough things happen. If they do not even have the basic of seeing through the world system and knowing its controllers are evil, then their deception is already in place. Christians do have to realize the day may come where they may have to die for the gospel, you are right millions of others have been martyred. But today people are wrongly told, well you will be Raptured [nothing bad will happen to you], years and years of false indoctrination and Left Behind lies.

You are right, those poor people they did die for a false cause, in defending the coming Rapture, and think about once Campings Rapture did not happen how it influenced the non-believers around them, that was not a testimony for them either, but something else to detract from any more converting to be Christians. We should pray for these people, that the survivors are not disillusioned and that they turn to God's Word for answers not more false teachers. Yes, those with genuine faith will remain in the hands of Jesus Christ.