Thursday, May 12, 2011

Trad Catholics and Sedevacantists: Still Clinging to the Harlot

Years ago, when I was still in the Catholic church, I encountered a Trad [or traditionalist] Catholic, she was a lady I had discussions with about things we were starting to witness in the Catholic church and disagree with such as the Assisi meeting. We would both discuss, "Why is the Pope meeting with and endorsing all those false religions?" She told me how she had left the regular what is referred to as the NOVUS ORDO [new order] Catholic church and had returned to a Catholic church where they stuck to the old pre-Vatican II Latin Mass. I remember saying to her, "you know they are teaching too much of what I witnessed in the UU church!". I had my worries as well. Before I was born again, I was reading Trad Catholic websites MYSELF, but in my case, was reading the Bible too and praying to God to show me the truth, which was answered later. Many concerned Catholics, look at the sex scandals, the Pope parading around with false religions, saying that Allah of Islam is "God", kissing the Koran, getting Hindu blessings, and think "What is wrong here?" What should I do?"

Well Satan has laid a trap for them, without them being born again and without the urging of the Holy Spirit, they enter into the false myth, that there was a once "perfect" Catholic church, where Vatican II supposedly came in and ruined everything. Now Vatican II, did bring in the overt "one world religion" stuff, and was created to dupe the Protestants, to make the once church militant more cute and cuddly so Protestants would embrace it and it's ecumenical movement with the false belief, that "The Roman Catholic church has changed, it has modernized!"

The Trad Catholics definitely have reasons for their questions, when they see Catholic Cardinals like Mahony [now retired] having "Christian"-Buddhist prayer services or when they see the endless interfaith meetings but sadly are misled into another ditch. There are two different camps in Trad Catholicism, the Trad Catholics who often remain under papal authority though that can differ and the Sedevacantists, who essentially believe the papacy is "empty" and the recent Popes are all ANTIPOPE interlopers.

Here is an example of a TRAD CATHOLIC video. Notice they see some of the evil in their midst, such as in the case of an occult Vatican coin with three 6-pointed stars in a row. They know something is wrong and are right to suspect the Vatican but without the spiritual leading of the Holy Spirit, they do not recognize the harlot for what it is and has been for all time!

Here is the deal, the Roman Catholic church and it's daughters have always been of Mystery Babylon and wicked to the core! One core teaching of Trad Catholicism, is that the Latin Mass is the only valid Mass and the Novus Ordo or "New Mass" said in the vernacular is inferior. The old Mass and new Mass have always been witchcraft and of wickedness. Did you realize that the priests are taught even with the New Mass, if they miss one important word of the "formula" the wafer does not turn into "the body and blood of christ"? A total lie from Satan himself; [read Matt 15:17] Such a thing is just like the spells of witchcraft. The link says "Changing the words of institution (the "form") invalidates the consecration.It doesn't matter whether the priest is doing it with malice, with "devotion," or accidently."

If you think sticking to the more old fashioned Latin formulas of idolatry and witchcraft is going to fix things, well you are wrong. Some Trad Catholics and Sedevacantists even believe that only their Latin Mass, changes the wafer into "jesus" while the Novus Ordo Mass ritual is no affect. It is almost like a competition of rituals, and one can see the endless debates online. [see here, here, and here] This really shows the misleading of total idolatry.

The Roman System has always been wicked, and there are endless early evils. Borgia Popes ring a bell? In some ways the Popes of yesterday as they bought their way into the papacy or even came through family lines, showed more overt wickedness and evil. Rome has always been evil. There is no idyllic past of true holiness. That only exists in repenting, being born again in Jesus Christ, and regenerated as a true Christian. Sadly Trad Catholics and Sedevacantists cling to the harlot, thinking returning to the old ways [even the more old fashioned clergywear] and the fancier trappings will redeem them.

There are many Trad Catholic and Sedevacantist [they believe the Papal office is empty and taken over by interlopers] websites out there. There is Novus Ordo Watch, The Dimond Brothers "Most Holy Family Monastery" , True Catholic, Traditio , and The Remnant Newspaper among many others.

Many Trad Catholics point to Vatican II as the cause of all the problems and how the Catholic church went wrong. Check out this book as an example "The Great Facade" and its description.

In this book, Christopher A. Ferrara, Esq., and Dr. Thomas Woods cut through the confusion and the doubletalk and get to the heart of the matter: it was not nameless, faceless "liberals" but the Council itself and decisions by the Vatican and the conciliar Popes that brought on the current unparalleled ecclesial crisis. While the Church still stands, her teachings are still there and her traditional Latin Mass is still alive, Catholics are now forced to look hard in order to find these things. They must look behind a great facade of novelty and failed experimentation imposed upon the Church in the name of Vatican II -- a facade that separates Catholics from their own God-given patrimony: 2000 years of traditional teaching, liturgy, and spirituality.

Robert Sungenis is one Trad Catholic who has wisely questioned Assisi. [See my blog entry here] Sungenis asks some good questions, and definitely a little truth is coming through the cracks here...

"Perhaps John Paul II did not say, precisely, “Come to Assisi and pray to your false gods.” But did not John Paul II invite all the world’s religions to Assisi, knowing that few, if any of them, would address the Christian God when they prayed? Did he not set up cubicles for each of them; allowing them to bring their own instruments of worship and prayer (e.g., pagan statues, incense, etc) and knowingly allow them to pray using these pagan artifices? Did he not clearly indicate that through their praying to their own gods that they would, in effect, be praying to the true God? The answers to these questions is, of course, an unqualified YES – John Paul II did all of these things, and it was the first time in Christian history that a pope has done so."
But sadly, while Robert Sungenis sees a few of the rotten trees, he does not realize he is in the Mystery Babylon forest! The same could be said of Trad Catholics/Sedevacantists in general.

One diversion I noticed in some of the Trad Catholic world though this does NOT apply to all of them, is these types focused on the "Jews" as having "infiltrated" the Catholic church and taken it over. Why wouldn't some preach this, when Rome must quibble, and point to the Jews/Jerusalem as Mystery Babylon while covering up for themselves? One can see this attitude even among SOME Traditional Orthodox types.

Lucifer has always wished to oppress the Jewish people and steer them away from Jesus Christ, and has done so via the Catholic religious system for centuries. Yes the Talmud/kabbalah is Mystery babylon based: same as other false religions and false books, there are those who say they are Jews and are not, there are members of all groups who support the NWO, but Rome here throws up more smoke screens and diversions and this is present in the Trad camps.

Mel Gibson is one example of a famous Trad Catholic who even built his own Trad church on his property, all the religiosity definitely not impacting his wicked personal life full of adultery who has expressed such viewpoints, with one anti-semitic rant being exposed a few years ago. Hutton Gibson, his father is a Sedevacantist who even has denied aspects of the Holocaust and has shared anti-semitic views. Hutton also has shown up at Barnes Review meetings...a anti-semitic magazine, which praises the Pope [especially WWII Pope-Pius XII]--advancing Vatican agendas, and advances out and out Holocaust denial:

Hutton Gibson is also outspoken in his views that the Holocaust never happened, or at least not to the degree that historians maintain. "Go and ask an undertaker or the guy who operates the crematorium what it takes to get rid of a dead body," he told the New York Times in 2003. "It takes one liter of petrol and 20 minutes. Now, 6 million?"

Hutton Gibson has appeared at events sponsored by the anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying Barnes Review (Click HERE to see a program from a 2003 seminar, which includes a photograph of Gibson with notorious Holocaust-denier Fredrick Töben) and is heralded on anti-Semitic Web sites around the world.

In one radio interview in 2004, Hutton Gibson said that "most of " what historians say about the Holocaust is "fiction." He claimed that 6 million Jews weren't killed during World War II. Rather, he said, they moved'

Is this all Sedevacantists or Trads?, No it is not. But definitely there are false teachings leading many to false conclusions. This article [secular article] points to the antisemitism within some Trad Catholic circles: "Where Mel Gibson Got His Antisemitism". If one studies the history of Rome, and realizes the history of the papacy oppressing the Jews, it ties into some of these present-day attitudes.

What is even sadder except the Sedevacantists who at least show a tiny amount of consistency in rejecting the Popes, is there are Trads out there, who follow the Popes, even knowing they are corrupt, wicked and teaching falsehoods, but with false "one church training" follow anyway. Pope Benedict has worked on keeping some in the Vatican camp despite their protests.

Overall with this Trad Catholicism and Sedevacantism, we see people led into another ditch even though they rightly question somethings, without reading God's Word or seeking His truth or having the Holy Spirit they end up as lost as a someone in a coal mine without a flashlight still clinging to the harlot in the first place that betrayed them.


Anonymous said...

Good article.

1. Yes, the traditionalists are hardened in their deceptions by mistakenly thinking the "falling away" is this newer version of Catholicism. Some even agree that the newer popes are antichrist, that Satan is enthroned at the Vatican--since the 60's. He's actually been there far longer than that. The old Vatican was just as Satanic as is the new one. The old Vatican however lost its power and control over the nations, and the new was established to regain that control. Having the new image is all part of that.

2. Absolutely about the formula praying the priests do in their "reincarnation" rites. This is ancient sorcery from the word go. They are doing nothing more than casting spells. The ancient Egyptians were very meticulous in the ritual words as surviving documents attest, like the book of the dead. This is what Christ meant by the repetitious praying, as formula prayers in the style of the pagans. It is just another sign of paganism with Christian veneer. Remember what the Rev. says about sorcerers. These MAGI are those very sorcerers.

3. Satan knows that there are the Elect among the Jews also who are yet to come to Christ, and is attempting to forestall (but he really can't) the return of Christ by the use of (for one) antisemitism, because until all the Gentile and Jewish Elect lost sheep are found, Christ will not return. There are powerful fake Jews in the "world order" mix, to be sure, and I believe there is a top elite that are working closely with the Vatican. However, among the regular Jews are still our potential brothers and sisters to come to Christ. By equating them with the false Jews, this just plays right along with the Satanic agenda. We must get to the heart of the matter. Satan's seat is in Rome--period. The powers that be--as Paul called them--principalities, are implanted in every aspect of society in all parts of the world, and that includes the fake powerful Jews. But no be deceived, the one pulling all their strings is seated in Rome. Pointing to one of their principalities to the exclusion of the seat, is just aiding and abetting the Enemy. Anon. #1

Abbey said...

It's a good thing that Robert Sungenis and others like him are seeing some of the truth that we see but it's just scratching the surface. Talk about calling the kettle black. He notices the "pagan statues and incense" but can't see it's in the RCC as well, even more so. The really sad part is the spiritual blindness. I was fortunate that I left when I was 17. I wonder how many, (if any) Catholics know their church changed the 2nd Commandment in order to justify their graven images.

You're right John Paul II furthered the agenda more than anyone. He looked so grand-fatherly and seemed so kind, which just goes to show you can't judge a book by it's cover.

Abbey said...

It doesn't surprise me concerning the Latin Mass or the antisemitism. I have heard many Catholics say the Jews killed Jesus. That's minutely true but what they don't understand is Jesus WILLINGLY laid down his life and it was actually ALL of us that are to blame since he died for our sins as well. It's like that painting, for the life of me I can't remember the artist, where he painted himself in with the mob at Golgotha. He understood the Gospel.

I remember a relative of mine years ago expressing disappointment when the mass was said in English. Her exact words were "It's just so much more beautiful in Latin." Talk about brainwashing. How wonderful is it to not understand what is being said? It's for the same reason the church didn't want the people to read the Bible but to depend on THEM to teach them what it says OR NOT.

Anonymous said...

I guess my reply was lost. Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

I know it is interesting to see how they see some of the truth, like Sungenis seeing the wickedness of Pope John Paul II inviting all false religions together, to pray to their false spirits and demons but while they see these snippets of truth, the whole picture does not come together with out the leading of the Holy Spirit. I remember when I was on the cusp of leaving the RCC, I was upset by the same things Sungenis was, but at time was reading the Bible. Still remember a magazine I had, where it had Assisi detailed, and thinking 'This is horrible, they may as well be UUs!" After I was saved, I knew the RCC was the harlot and had been evil since Day 1, it wasn't a new development or Vatican II. They had been working their way up to Vatican II for centuries. The first thing that fell away for me was the Eucharist, which I stopped partaking of a few months before I left, and even before I was born again. I do think the Trad I knew, did end up leaving the RCC, though, I do not know if she was born again, remember witnessing to her and told her why and how I had totally left. Sometimes the Trad avenue, for a few rare people can be a stepping stone completely out, but unless they are born again, we know Satan has endless ditches even in the evangelical world.

Yes he notices the "pagan statues, and incense" and the things of the other mystery babylon members but doesn't make the connection with the church he is in. To me it is sad, I think many of these folks are people of conscience, who do see a lot of the evils, but the spiritual blindness remains because they are not born again. I know many do not know the RCC split the last commandment into two, so they could remove the second.

With JPII, yes they promoted him and he was so grandfatherly and "nice" looking though the passage of years basically outed him too as being part of the sex scandals and other corruption. In fact this is one reason he was able to sell more of the "one world religion" stuff so easily. Yep, you can't judge a book by it's cover.

Bible Believer said...

Yes there does seem to be a connection to the Latin Mass and antisemitism.

Well here is one phrase removed via Vatican II..[they say here they don't plan to have it in the recent Latin Masses]

uly 2007--The phrase "perfidious Jews," which had appeared in the Good Friday liturgy, was removed by John XXIII from his first Good Friday service as pope in 1959

Read more:

If one examines the history of Popes oppressing the Jewish people [I believe the Holocaust was an updated Inquisition] one can see how that filtered down to the people.

Of course with the Vatican 2 liberalism, there is more betrayal and a switch around to tell Jewish people you do not need Jesus Christ.

I agree that Jesus Christ willingly laid down his life, and it is ALL of us to blame too.

Yes I've heard the Latin referred to as beautiful. One thing that I think about is Latin is adhered to this day, in circles of the occult for spells and more. Google witches and spells in's "tradition" there too.

With the Latin and more, this is how they deceived people, smells and bells and fancy trappings to give a false air of holiness and mystery to rein them all in. This definitely is a facet in Trad Catholicism where they want to.
Of course saying the rituals in a language most do not understand, is a way to keep people deceived and blocked off from what is really being said especially for those who would read the Bible in their own language and then know what was being said and done in the Mass.

Bible Believer said...

Last anon, sorry your response disappeared. I'm hoping they will be replacing comments, I saw it, though didn't have time to respond, wanted to, glad you explain many things well. I would like you to re-respond, if your old comment is not replaced.

Anonymous said...

The first point I made was that the old catholics are hardened in their believe because they see the new catholics as the apostasy promised in Scripture. They even believe that Satan sits in control of the Vatican--since the 60's. However, Satan has been ruling from that seat far longer before that as evidenced by his war against the Saints during the Reformation (when the Domincans were created who were the first inquisitors, and as evidenced by the Counter Reformation (when the Jesuits were created).

The next point I made about the priests using exact words and phrases, is that it hearkens to pagan practice whose magician priests were very careful to say exact words or the spell they were casting would not work or would backfire. The ancient Egyptian priesthood was very big on this, and this practice comes from the time before the flood. That is why they wrote these spells down in books such as the Book of the Dead. Those spells were centered around the awakening of the god, so that the re-awakened god could impregnate the goddess (queen of heaven called Hathor/Isis) and his reincarnation could be born. Look at what they do at the mass--they "reawaken" the "god" so that he "reincarnates" in the "accident" of the wafer. Their teaching that in order to "know" "christ" more fully, one has to go through "mary" is connected to this. I saw this book written a long time ago that made the claim that the eucharist at mass is actually made with "Mary's" breast milk. Another catholic apologist said that at the mass "mary" is implicitly there because of this very kind of esoteric interpretation. I doubt most catholics even understand that this is really what catholocism really teaches, that "Mary" makes the wafers of their mass. *********Go find this book: Jesus Our Eucharist Love, Chapter 6 The Bread That Our Heavenly Mother Gives Us, that has the catholic imprimatur and approval by three popes.******* Or you can read that chapter here: Reading it will curdle your blood! The author actually says that because "Mary's" milk is mixed in, the wafer isn't just "jesus", but HER as well! Remember, BB, what I said about the high god being of both sexes? Even the monstrance is both sexes, and with the wafer in it catholics give it the "highest" form of worship.

Bottom line is this: the mass is the ancient pagan reawakening of the god, done by magician priests, and those priests must use exact words and phrases or it won't "work". As I mentioned, this kind of formulaic praying is what Christ warned not to do because it is not only pagan in nature, but reveals that one is in fact following paganism. In the Rev., the I AM mentions "sorcerers" not being allowed into the New Jerusalem. It is these very types of sorcerers who call themselves priests and "alter cristos" (another christ) to which this is referring.

I'll answer the rest in the following post. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

More of my response:

The third point is that the elite Jews are the fake Jews. We see fake Jews ever since Northern Israel was implanted with foreigners. The original Jews there to begin with had fallen away and founded first Dan, then Bethel. The foreigners came in and continued it, adding to it their own eastern (Babylonian) traditions, adopting the Jewish traditions with theirs, as well as the already apostate traditions of the golden calves (the versions of Apis and Hathor). This Samaritan poly-religion is better known as Gnosticism. They tried to horn in on the rebuilding of the Temple, and finally a faction of them succeeded in infiltrating the temple priesthood during the time when the Greek dynasties ruled over Israel. It was this false priesthood that existed at the Temple during the advent of Christ (except for the genuine Abia family, from whom is John the Baptist and his father, Zecharias). The various factions, Judaic and "christian", of Gnostic Magi have continued since that time. A faction of these types of Magi-Jewish style priests (like the Gnostic Simon the Magi) had also infiltrated into the eastern churches, and into Rome (even becoming factions there: Orthodox and Roman). Others remained in Judaism, and are the powerful elite Jews--the fake ones. But among normal Jews there are yet the Elect that are to come to Christ. Satan uses the blame against Jews in general simply to create confusion. On one hand, it is an attempt to draw attention from his true seat of power which is in Rome. On the other hand, it creates hatred against all Jews because he knows that among them are the Elect Jews as well who have yet to come to Christ. Satan hopes that by doing this against the Elect among the Jews, he can delay the coming of Christ (which he can't), because until the last Elect among the Jews is raised up in Christ, Christ shall not return.

What is very important here is to understand that this Magi priesthood was created before the flood in Sumer by Cain, imported by Cain's sons into Egypt, and re-established after the flood both by Ham and Cush (Ham going back to Egypt, and Cush re-founding Sumer, but ousted by his son Nimrod). All along they have "morphed" with every step of evolution, so that while secretly being of this priesthood of Cain, outwardly they appear to have an acceptable veneer. The latest avatar of the Whore is Rome which is her christian morph. Satan's previous seat was a pagan seat--in Pergamos, because he had not as yet infiltrated Christianity to the point of taking control. When his magi succeeded in infiltrating both in the eastern and western churches and wresting control, he was once again released and given the seat of "christianity" which is Rome. When his seat was given him, it was this False Prophet that he fully possessed. Whoever fills that office is the full possession of Satan, and through this man, Satan "rules" over "christendom". This is the Antichrist. The Whore is the "christian" priesthood--the adulteress. Pagans are not adulterers against Christ because they don't claim Him as their Lord, so they can't be a "whore", but are only pagan's. They will be judged, but the Whore gets DOUBLE judgment because not only is she pagan, but she claims the name of Christ at the same time, and claims to sit on the seat of "god". Its high priest, the False Prophet, is the Antichrist.

The rest of my response to follow. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

The rest of my response:

I know this is a lot more than I said in my previous reply, but this is a vital message that people should know. Evangelicals and Fundamentalists who teach otherwise are actually aiding and abetting the Antichrist--without knowing it. It's not that they shall necessarily fall away, but their false eschatology will end up being the things of wood and straw with which they have built upon the Foundation which shall be instantly burned away with the coming of Christ--mainly because they will instantly realize how wrong they have been.

However, it's also really important to understand that this magi priest has also, for decades now, infiltrated the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists. These Devils have been doing this for millennia! This age is no different! If they have to pretend to be against Rome for their "cause", they are not above doing that. We are dealing with Devils people, always remember that--principalities, in places on high. Those famous TV preachers and megachurch pastors--it is these kind of high profile people that will be most suspect due to the fact that their interest is getting the largest audience possible.

She is not called the Mother of harlots for nothing. Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

Thanks for reposting your comments Anon #1

For your first section...

Yes the old Catholics have been falsely misled, that the "new Catholics" are the ones who are evil and that there was once upon a time a "holy Catholic church". One thing I considered when you mentioned the ones who see Satan as running the things from the Vatican is Jesuit {said to have left} Malachi Martin's books. I read The Keys of this Blood and Windswept House, before leaving the RCC. He was a giant instigator of the false myth that the RCC was this "holy" church infiltrated by the wicked, instead of running the luciferian show. In Keys of This BLood, JPII is presented as hapless victim beleagured by all the wicked facets of the NWO, [Masons, Satanists, etc] when in reality he was running that show. The whole thing about how they see Satan sitting in the Vatican is very ironic, as we believe that too. I've imagined Satan or other demonic entity sitting in that creepy chair on the wall, giving directions to "his followers" [do not agree with writer of link, just using the picture, because it is good one]

Satan has ruled the Vatican from Day #1, thousands of years of Mystery Babylon, the Popes took over as the Pontifex Maximus same title as the pagan Roman leaders.

The Trads sadly are led down a rabbit trail of intense proportions.

Malachi Martin, in Windswept House which is supposed to be fiction disguised as reality, is almost prophetic, regarding the exposed sex scandals, outlying the covens within the RCC in this book, he also speaks of the Enthronment of Satan in the RCC, of course timing this sometime in the 60s:

Former vatican insider Malachi Martin's asserted that a "Satanic Enthronement ceremony" took place in the Vatican in 1963.

This is from an article from Makow's website...[who seems to see the old RCC as valid as well but using for information here} Google Malachi Martin, interesting stuff...

The result of this ritual meant the Vatican manifested what clerics referred to as the 'Superforce."

"Martin had first made reference to a diabolic rite held in Rome in his 1990 non-fiction best-seller about geopolitics and the Vatican, The Keys of This Blood, p 632 where he wrote:

"Most frighteningly for [Pope] John Paul [II], he had come up against the irremovable presence of a malign strength in his own Vatican and in certain bishops' chancelleries. It was what knowledgeable Churchmen called the 'superforce.' Rumors, always difficult to verify, tied its installation to the beginning of Pope Paul VI's reign in 1963. Indeed Paul had alluded somberly to 'the smoke of Satan, which has entered the Sanctuary'... an oblique reference to an enthronement ceremony by Satanists in the Vatican.

Besides, the incidence of Satanic pedophilia --rites and practices-- was already documented among certain bishops and priests as widely dispersed as Turin, in Italy, and South Carolina, in the United States. The cultic acts of satanic pedophilia are considered by professionals to be the culmination of the Fallen Archangel's rites.".."

What is scary, is no one who reads this stuff asks how could this church be of God when its leaders are running off to worship Lucifer? Well they have for centuries. The Trad Catholic is misdirected, given false disinformation, and told despite even the overt Satanism they have been informed of, that the RCC [well it's old form] is still the "one true church".

Bible Believer said...

Part 2 on comments [sec #1]

The Trads I used to talk to that used to blow my mind--I was a new Christian, [today understand more of the spiritual ramifications] were the ones who said, "Yes we know the Pope and his men are evil, but our job is to follow anyway".

That is another lie Satan has used, even their heroines preach the same Satanic lie to get people to blindly follow the antichrist...

St Catherine of Sienna:

""Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him."

Think about the insanity of that. I read that quote while coming out of the RCC and thought, that lady was no saint!
As for the Mass witchcraft, I know in Wicca, high levels of esoteric magic, etc, spells are done in Latin supposedly to make them more powerful. How odd that is the language of the Mass for most of world history. The fact they must abide by the exact words and formulas is witchcraft and the Mass itself is the vain repetition warned of by Jesus Christ Himself. Those of us who are ex-Catholics can remember the boring droning on of the Mass, with a few changes for whatever special holidays there were, or different hymns or chosen readings--often those with lines taken out--I plan to do a blog entry on that discovery, that it was possible to memorize the Mass, it was the same every Sunday or Sat night, and why not, the priests have to keep it so exact, even the priests of 20 years duration, read a lot of it from books.

I have seen writings about Mary, and I went to check out your link that actually is common where they claim "jesus" is part of Mary and vice versa. I have seen mystical writings about the DNA of Mary in the RCC and even seen some Catholics write that "jesus" as Mary's son must obey her. During the Mass, they say the spell, to turn thousands of little wafers into "jesus" or a "god" that can be eaten. So I agree with you there. Jesus said that what is put into the stomach, is to be thrown into the draught, which is essentially a nicer word for the toilet.
The Mass is witchcraft full and simple. I actually need to dig up an old writing of mine saying just that and put it on this blog. Many Catholics may not want to face these things. With the Trads I'll give them this, many are thinking, and some with conscience are seeing the wickedness around them, now they need to take the next step of repentance, being born again and trusting in God to show them the truth, which is the RCC has been evil and run by Satan from the VERY BEGINNING.

Bible Believer said...

Regarding your third point Anon #1 about the fake Jews, I agree. Talmudism is Mystery Babylon. When I see Kabbalah websites, they read exactly like Theosophical/Masonic/pagan Wicca sites, visualization, eosteric occult knowledge, the same messages. Here we see some Trad Catholics and others like our Orthodox visitor here, who has accepted the false Mystery Babylon smokescreen except in his case, he doesn't see it as the Masons infiltrating things, but the Jews when he is in the thick of a Mystery Babylon church himself. There are the Frankists, Sabbateans, and many of those are those who say they are Jews and are not. In fact, I believe it was the Frankists who were instructed to adopt different religious faces, and among those would be Jews. We have luciferians pretending to be Christians [some I believe in pulpits], why wouldnt there be PHONY Jews as well? Modern Judaism is also different from the biblical Judaism of the OT. It is a "new" religion that has adopted many Babylonian traditions, and that strain is seen through out the Talmud. We are to witness to the Jewish people, and bless them according to the Bible, not hate them. I do not understand the anti-semites in that Jesus Himself was a Jew and most of the apostles!

But yes from the early start, and looking at the OT and the endless warnings about Babylon, and how Israel got diverted time and time again--the golden calfs, false gods, etc. Those are warnings that apply to today. I agree about the origins of Gnosticism as well. The ironic thing is the Catholics and "liturgicals" warn about the Gnostics but so much of their religion is based in it. If you want to see an example of someone who loves that the Temple was rebuilt, go read the recent comments I have to respond to soon, under the Orthodox blog entry. False priests and false temples, Orthodox, Catholic, Mormon, they abound, and well they existed even during the book of Acts, Simon of Magnus...

Yes among the normal Jews are the Elect who will be born again and come to Jesus Christ. All these false churches teach the Satanic lie, that Jews do not need Jesus, that they were saved under the first covenant and it's ok to reject him as Messiah. I agree Satan has used these false churches, and more for diversion, to lead Jews away from Jesus Christ. The fact is the powers in this world are evil, so those even bowing before the throne of Israel the secular nation, and Zionism, need to wake up, and realize the Rome driven politicians and global elites will betray the Jewish people as always has been done, to bring them away from Jesus. Satan has created hatred worldwide for the Jewish people. I agree with your theory, about Satan's desires regarding the Jewish people and the return of Jesus Christ.
Also this does go back to the time of Genesis, Egypt, Cain's son, the whole Nimrod line, That makes sense, morphing along the way, to where we have this false system, that John in the book of Revelation "wondered" at. There is some interesting things on Pergamos I've read online, one site claims it is the Vatican seat itself. It is known that Vatican was built over a pagan graveyard, and even today is still used as a tomb.

The harlot is an adultreress against agree with you there too. So a church that claims to be Christian but definitely is not, and is a "whore". Agree with you Revelation 17 applies here. "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." is the arrogant view of Rome, and it's daughters.

Bible Believer said...

Oops Revelation 18 for the above scripture verse.

I am glad you explained all this more. I think on a blog more information can be brought up on comments to help round out the original article's information. The evangelical world and fundamentalist world has definitely been infiltrated, and being led to the same place. How many now are led into supporting the false politicians and world system doing the work of Rome? [example Calvary Chapel and Newt Gingrich] They ignore what their Bibles tell them about the kings of this world and Jesus's warnings, about deceivers, and march to the drum beat of the Vatican. Many do not know they are aiding and abetting the Antichrist, there are well meaning people in many of these churches who do not know the political rallies, Israel first stuff, Dominionism, the world evangelical movement--Lausanne etc, are done in the interest of Rome.
We can try and warn who we can, and hopefully more will obey the Holy Spirit if born again and "listen" and part ways from these evil things but many do not know and are not discerning whatsoever.

I believe the whole Rapture does serve Rome. It has served formenting the endless wars in the Middle East that the global elites and Pope have desired for world power. False eschatology and false politics which all lead to the support of wicked world powers and desire to be "of this world", the Dominionists and all.
You are right that many of them will pretend to be against Rome for their cause, thinking of Hagee here, who definitely via his false politics here and abroad is serving the papal interests. There are many out there like that. Followers of the "fathers of lies" will lie.

I agree that those who are at the higher echelons, loved by the world, courted by the politicians, are not to be trusted at all. That would include the top members and leaders of most denominations out there, they are all courted by the world and gleeful in being so.

Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. So much that is evil can be traced right back.

Anonymous said...

Amen, BB! These are the kinds of warning we need to be telling. Amen! Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

I am going to link to this article various places [have to work on it today], LOL they may remove it, but I want the Trad Catholics and others who do see some of the wickedness to know the truth.

dolorosa said...

The Roman Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and there are both saints and sinners in the church. Yes, it has been infiltrated by the enemies of Christ and we have prophecy to warn us about it such as Our Lady of Akita, Fatima, and Good Success. Our Lord warned about wolves in sheep's clothing and the bible warns us of apostasy. The gates of Hell will never prevail His one true church even if only a remnant remain true to the faith as before VII. I attend the Latin Mass with the SSPX.
Please visit my blog at Roman Catholic Heroes.

Bible Believer said...

Dolorosa, I will pray for you. As you will see before I left the Catholic church, I read many Trad websites and books. The Marian apparitions bring deception. Please see this link as well...I speak about Fatima there too...

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately Bible Believer, (I'm praying for you by the way)you're a heretic, and I say this not out of hate but out of love for the truth even if it's inconvenient for you to hear.

The Catholic Church is the only historical Church led back to Jesus Christ when he appointed St. Peter the first pope. Simon Barjona was named "Petros or Petra" which meant Rock, Christ gave him the keys to bind and loose upon heaven and earth, on which the gates of hell will not prevail over Christ's Church the Catholic church. It was very similar to God in the old testament naming Abram to Abraham, being the leader of a multitude of people and the tribes of Israel. So you see how God works, and has appointed leaders to lead the Church.

Unfortunately you follow, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Simon Mennos and the rest of the heretics (Mere mortal men who formed heretical offshoots after the 1500s) You interpret scripture on your own and placing Scripture as the sole source of authority.

Well guess what the CAtholic Church gave you your first Bible. St. Jerome written the Latin Vulgate from translated texts in the 4th century under Pope Damasus. Yes you heretic protestant didn't even exist then.

Even with your own bible there is NO passage that says in Scripture alone or in faith alone. No where does it say, or even through Church tradition that the heretical formula of "I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior" is the means to salvation.

You can even prove the Catholic position with your own bastardized translations ie. Kings James Version...

To be protestant after view the facts, and really reading scripture is to be dishonest toward God.

All you protestant go by Faith Alone Sola Fide... yet there's 30,000 denominations of you... wow what a way to show your less than 600 year old credibility.

Us Catholics and to a degree our Orthodox counterparts are the real deal. Charitably speaking, you another confused heretics who puts their own ego above God's law. You like the Faith Alone position and Scripture Alone position because it's convenient for you. You possess no humility before Our Lord and are unfortunately of bad will...

Bible Believer said...

What truth do you want me to have? I am curious what do you think of the one world religion stuff that is exposed regarding the Catholic church on this blog? Do you believe that all religions lead to "god" or feel OK, with Catholic cardinals lighting lamps to hindu "gods" and "goddesses"?

What do you think of your Pope's love for world government? and many other things...

I spent years speaking with Catholics online, so none of the arguments you present to me are new. Do we follow Rome's version of history or what God's Word says? You really believe the Vatican contains God's chosen leaders when they are advancing the one world religion and government? No they are the ones warned of in Revelation, the harlot of Revelation 17 and 18 with it's many daughters.

I am not a Lutheran, have a blog article against Calvinism so do not follow those men.

God's Word is to be the main source of authority, not those "who claim they are apostles but are found to be liars".[paraphrasing]

The Bible came well before and separate from the Catholic church.

Scripture lead me out of the RCC. Have you seen my testimony..?

Well I will pray for you....

Anonymous said...

So with your Sola Scriptura faith, you, rather than the pope, have ultimate authority now, right? And you have the authority to make infallible judgments about heresy and apostasy, right?

Bible Believer said...

I can tell when someone is working for Satan and helping to usher in the one world religion.

That woke me up when I was in the Catholic church to get out.

If you read the Catholic pages on this website, you will see the endless evils of Rome exposed from Catholic cardinals and bishops, lighting lights before hindu false '"gods", to the Pope's call for world government. Why would I ignore those things? And why do you find them acceptable?

The Popes have deceived you. You need to look to God's Word instead of these false men.

1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

William Sculley said...

Things Jesus never said:

"If Paul tells you one day to stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter, don't believe him. Don't accept oral Traditions, like the ever-virginity of Mary, the Dormition of Mary, the Real Presence and Confessions. Accept the whole Bible EXCEPT for where Paul commanded you to follow Tradition."

Actually, Paul exhorted us to follow Tradition three times. Twice in Second Thessalonians he commands us to follow Tradition. And once in First Corinthians, he congratulates the Corinthians for their faithful following of Tradition.

But those words aren't inspired, apparently, according to you who are outside of the Orthodox Church.

Descriptions of the Bible in Scripture:

Useful, profitable, holy, God-breathed.

Descriptions of the Scripture not found in Scripture:

The only source of true doctrine.

Description of the Church in Scripture:

The Pillar and Bastion of the Truth, in which we should maintain full fellowship and Communion.

Bible Believer said...

So let me get this clear, you believe God wants you to stay in a church where it is in dialogue with the Pope that tells the world "Allah" of Islam is God, and pushes a centralized world banking system and government?

Its interesting to me how when it comes to the sacramental churches, the "traditions" of their outward trappings comes even before the first commandment and even the prophecies in Revelation.

I agree about holding firm and fast to traditions that are EXPRESSED in the Bible.

Your problem is that false churches tell you their false traditions go back to the apostles, they do not.

The apostles did not believe in

1. The Real Prescence/Transubstantiation or Eucharist

Sacraments in general.

2. Confession to priests

3. Infant baptism

4. Kissing priest's hands

5. Kissing icons

6. Elevation of Mary--there is a TON in the Bible that speaks against this such as

Luke 11;

27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.”28But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

7 worship [veneration] of relics [basically dead body parts and bones]

What about these warnings regarding tradition?

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

The Orthodox church does so via many idolatrous teachings and traditions.

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

I think about how the Roman Catholic and Orthodox church push aside Jesus's command [John 3:7] that one must be born again, saying tradition and "rituals" will save.

Of course you will be trained to dismiss God's Word as the foundation of truth, I was in the Catholic church, you wrote....

"Descriptions of the Scripture not found in Scripture:

The only source of true doctrine."


Actually the Bible does say it is the source of true doctrine.

Romans 3:4

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


These false churches have to train their people to reject God's Word as the foundation of truth, because this opens the avenue for the false traditions and teachings.

You are looking to HUMAN and WORLD ORGANIZATIONS, a visible church that claims it is the "one true church".

So many are deceived by this. This keeps even the Trads and Sedes tied to a false organization even as it helps form the luciferian one world religion.
Talk about ignoring the evil fruits.

Don't trust in those early false church fathers either..

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:29-30)

William Sculley said...

Who said we should build our churches to be like heaven?

"Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven."

It is His will that we gather to worship Him. That is the same as in Heaven. In Heaven, they gather in a very specific place: Around the Altar, wherein the throne of God is.

If His will is to be done on earth in the same way as it is in Heaven, then would that not include the type of place in which they gather?

Also, that is speaking of the altar in the Church. The altar in the Church is the place where the Bread and Wine are consecrated. Those serving in the tabernacle was a reference to the Pharisees and Sadducees, who served in the tabernacle, but rejected the truth of Christ.

William Sculley said...

Bible Believer, currently, talking to me in the comments, you are now in discourse with someone from the Orthodox Church, according to your definition of discourse.

Also, if you really think that we believe in a one world religion, you should give a listen to this:

Here, Father Andrew Stephen Damick compares Orthodoxy to nearly 400 different religions and denominations.

Also, you currently have no canon, and no connection to the Apostles. Everything you say is your personal interpretation of Scripture. You are your own Pope, making judgments based completely on your personal authority.

Why do I say this? Because you have rejected the Canon of Scripture by rejecting the Church Fathers. You have no man above you, replacing the Holy Spirit with your personal "common sense" and logic.

You are like a leaf in the wind, moved this way and that, with no idea that the wind is blowing toward a wildfire.

The Church Fathers are the ONLY reason we have things like the Canon of Scripture. They are the reason we can say, "This is Scripture and this isn't Scripture."

If the Church Fathers had never existed, then the Church would never exist, because it is their constant vigilance which brought us the Bible we have today. Your foolish rejection of them is your greatest weakness, and is the very reason that Satan himself is laughing when he sees you. He laughs because he has no need to trick you or try to twist your teachings. He has already won by getting you to deny the power of your heritage. You reject even men which Paul called holy in the Scripture. You look to a nebulous heresy of disorganized churches, with no central leadership, no regulations of doctrine.

Have you ever wondered why it is that churches fall and split over stupid issues? It's because there is no organization above the local congregation. You never see an Orthodox parish split like that. You try to apply western thought to an eastern belief, and by doing that, you insert the heresy of individualism into the faith. You wonder what the problem is? Look in the mirror. Read your blog of hate speech. When an atheist reads this blog, he is left wondering "Why should I be a Christian? They hate eachother just as much as non-Christians.

William Sculley said...

I did not say I don't believe a one world religion won't exist. I'm just saying it's probably going to be from somewhere that people are not looking. It's definitely not the discourse between the Orthodox and other churches. Technically, you and I are in discourse. Does that make you an Ecumenist? no. Stop saying stupid things like that. It succeeds only in making you look foolish.

William Sculley said...

The best lies are built around a grain of truth. There is no one religion that has everything wrong. They all recognize something that is correct. For example, Muslims teach that there is only one God. There is only one Allah (Arabic word for God is Allah, even among Christians). Is it true or false that there is only one God? It is true!

Buddhists teach that there is an image of the divine within man. The Bible teaches that man is made in the image of God.

There is always something true in false teaching. This is undeniable. If they accept nothing else, they all believe there is a fundamental issue of evil within mankind.

William Sculley said...

If a person can recognize the words of God upon his rebirth, then please explain to me why the Apostles used the Septuagint, which had more books than your Old Testament?

In fact, they constantly quoted from the books of Tobit, Wisdom of Solomon, and the Maccabees. There are approximately 70 references and quotes from ten books which are not in your Scriptures to be found in the New Testament.

The history of the canon of Scripture was never simple. It wasn't until Gutenberg invented the printing press that you could even have all of the books of the Bible in one book. And even then, it took so long to print a Bible that only the Churches and the rich people had their own copy of the Bible. In the Early Church, you read what you had. If you had two of the letters of Paul as your only Scriptures, that was what you used as your Scriptures, because it cost too much to have a scribe copy the Scriptures for you. In the early Church, it was a requirement that all elders and bishops must have the entire book of Psalms memorized before they are allowed to serve as clergy, because you didn't have those all the time, and they were the center of the services.

It wasn't until 367 AD that Athanasius even gave us the first list of the 27 books of the New Testament. And even then, it took the Church 50 more years to confirm this statement, as there were around 15 different canons of the New Testament floating around. There were hundreds of false letters out there, written by men who purported themselves to be Paul or Peter, but were really liars. There were false gospels and even letters of the Apostles which were not included in Scripture. James wrote an eyewitness account of the life of Christ from birth until death and resurrection. Paul wrote at least three other letters that we do not have in Scriptures.

You take for granted that we have the Bible today. But there were many men who died so that you would have that right. And you dishonor both them and the works God accomplished through them by your rejection of them. In fact, you not only dishonor the works of God, but you dishonor the very God Who did the works. And that, you poor man, is the most greivous sin ever, for you crucify Christ afresh with your arrogance.

Stand fast, and hold to the Traditions which have been given you, both by our words and by our letters.

--St. Paul, in his second letter to Thessaloniki.

William Sculley said...

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Word of God is:

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The Word of God is not a book. The Word of God is Christ Himself.

And guess what. Everything that Christ did couldn't have been contained in thousands of books, much less 27:

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

You deny the Tradition of God and the Apostles. I deny the manmade tradition of sola scriptura.

William Sculley said...

The Catholic lie that there is some truth in every lie is common sense. That is how Satan works. Satan uses the Truth to support a lie. So to say that there is SOME truth in every false religion is to say that Satan is up to his old tricks again. Or are you ignorant of the strategies of Satan, too?

William Sculley said...

I'm praying that you are broken free of your own personal opinions and restored to the first Church, wherein there is true and full Grace and Light from God. I'm praying that one day you are able to join me in singing the triumphal hymn of the liturgy, and to say:

"We have seen the true Light! We have received the heavenly Spirit! We have found the true faith, worshiping the undivided Trinity! For He has saved us!

William Sculley said...

Oh, and when Christ said "This is My Body, and this is my blood, exactly where in Scripture do you see it say "This is a metaphor"?

Sola Scriptura just whooped your rear.

You insert your own personal desires into Scripture. If Scripture says that Communion IS the Body and Blood of Christ, then you ought to believe it. Guess what:

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

I Corinthians 10

16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

Paul teaches very clearly, it IS the Body and Blood. It is you who, by denying the truth of Scripture, have declared it not so. But I say to you:

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

If you do not have the Body and Blood in your Communion, then you have no life in your Communion, but just juice and bread. It is of no value and means absolutely nothing. It is useless ritual and vain babbling. That is Communion without the real presence of Christ as a mystical reality in the Bread and Wine.

William Sculley said...

and yes, I just realized I was replying to the wrong topic :/

Bible Believer said...

Where is your proof the Apostles used the Septuagint.

Remember you are talking to an ex-Catholic who read the Apocrypha for years.

There is no way, that the apostles supported false books from Macabees to Judith

Be careful what those false early church fathers claim.

The KJV was translated with the Masoretic text for the OT.

Via the Orthodox church you are stuck in the false Bible stream

Out of Alexandria Eygpt...

"Septuagint - What is It?
Septuagint (sometimes abbreviated LXX) is the name given to the Greek translation of the Jewish Scriptures. The Septuagint has its origin in Alexandria, Egypt and was translated between 300-200 BC."

false version to the max.

God promised to preserve his word

even if a book is quoted that does not mean it is inspired.

Bible Believer said...

"The best lies are built around a grain of truth. There is no one religion that has everything wrong. They all recognize something that is correct. For example, Muslims teach that there is only one God. There is only one Allah (Arabic word for God is Allah, even among Christians). Is it true or false that there is only one God? It is true!

Buddhists teach that there is an image of the divine within man. The Bible teaches that man is made in the image of God.

There is always something true in false teaching. This is undeniable. If they accept nothing else, they all believe there is a fundamental issue of evil within mankind."

That is sad that you believe the falsehoods out of Rome, that truths exist in false religions.

There is not always something true in false teaching and what does it matter.

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

You believe that Muslims worship the same "God" you do?

or all others who claim "one" God?

Why do you discount the endless warnings about false gods in the Bible?

Seriously that's not far from what I was taught as a UU that all religions lead to "God", and yes the Popes and Patriarchs are on with that program. That is why the Pope had no problem having all religions pray to their false gods, at Assisi.

Bible Believer said...

I've written about the Eucharist already, I believe this is one of the biggest deceptions within the false Catholic church as well as it's daughters.

"Given many Christians are discerning the growing Catholic mysticism, Emergent false teachings and growing idolatry including the growing appeal of sacramental and idolatrous teachings concerning "communion" or what the Catholic church calls the "Eucharist" in
evangelical churches, seeing the above is very concerning. To me, it seems a more subtle way of pushing the idea of the Catholic "Real Presence" teachings regarding the eucharist: [Catholics do literally believe the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus Christ during the Mass] Does the "bread" itself taken in communion bring one into spiritual unity with Jesus? [as the CCOF statement says] Even that is an odd conjecture, a born again Christian is already united with Jesus Christ via faith with the Holy Spirit indwelling, they do not need "bread" to make it happen. The Lord's Supper is supposed to be a memorial, the body of Christ, is born again Christians, not pieces of bread being eaten.

Lest someone think I am nit-picking, the falseness of the Catholic Eucharist, is something many born again Christians who leave the Catholic church realize with the help of the Holy Spirit from the start. Jesus warned of those who basically taught that the "bread" itself ["consecrated" or not] had power or had become 'God'. Even the subtle illusion to the digestive process helping someone become more holy [as the bread is "assimilated into our bodies" in the CCOF statement] is wrong.

One thing, the word "draught" in the Bible, is basically the 'sewer', it doesn't get much lower then that.

Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?"

What does Matt 15:17 mean to you?

Trust in Jesus Christ alone as your Lord and Savior, not in false rituals, sacraments and more.

Jonny said...