Thursday, May 19, 2011

The Elephant Room: Why'd They Name It That?

See description of event here and here from the "official website".

This conference happened in March, but says some interesting things to me. It included James MacDonald, Steven Furtick, David Platt, Mark Driscoll, Matt Chandler, Greg Laurie and Perry Noble among the participants. Greg Laurie, I've written enough on this blog to expose his involvements. [see here too]

David Platt has written an Emergent flavored book called Radical, which is now making the bible study circuit, and includes plenty of false paradigms in selling 'global spirituality" with endless uses of the phrase "global purpose" and the austerity program of the elites. [Good to give and not focus on wealth in this world, but ask yourself a few questions when it starts sounding like Bono pushing a United Nations "One World" war on poverty campaign]

With James MacDonald, have read some of his writings, but questionable ties, he has taken to support of Rick Warren just like Greg Laurie. James MacDonald has the boiler plate anti-discernment ministry page on his website. He seems positively shocked that some Christians consider Rick Warren a heretic:

" I learned that some Christians think that Rick Warren is a heretic??? (Presumably the same ones that have now added me to that list??)"

With Mark Driscoll, we run into the whole Acts 29 network problem [see here too] Mark Driscoll was the pastor that entered into controversy for vulgar language. This is a guy, and I kid you not, who wrote a book called "PORN AGAIN Christian"!

Perry Noble, there are false teachings and associations to be concerned about. With Steven Furtick, Matt Chandler I am less familiar with, but the above really brings out full blown concern.

Two of these participating pastors have been publicly praised by Rick Warren.

This website shows this Tweet here:

Two of them, Mark Driscoll and Perry Noble have appeared in a conference Radicalis headed by Rick Warren. Steven Furtick also spoke at this same conference.

So what was this meeting all about? The official website states this:


The Elephant Room features blunt conversations between seven influential pastors who share a common love for the Gospel but take differing approaches to ministry. No keynotes. No canned messages. These are "the conversations you never thought you'd hear." All conversations are moderated by James MacDonald of Harvest Bible Chapel and Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church
The purpose of the Elephant Room is to model loving confrontation and gracious disagreement that honors relationship and allows diversity of opinion but stands without compromise on the revealed word of God. As Proverbs 27:17 instructs us that iron sharpens iron, so we want to sharpen each other for effective ministry. You’ll be stretched and challenged in your convictions while gaining practical insights from a variety of pastoral perspectives.

Beyond the fascination with celebrity preachers that is sold here. This is a cadre of apostate pastors.

The Elephant Room from Harvest Bible Chapel on Vimeo.

Now watch the video above...

One very strange comment by the announcer on the video advertising this event, takes a slam against Christian ladies:

"It's time for brothers in place to act like brothers with no more sectarianism where brothers act like sisters in catfights"

and then later it says:

"We want to talk about the elephant in the room"
I find myself disturbed at the name for this meeting, which is in my opinion an apostate pastor fest, but where did they get the name ELEPHANT ROOM from? Could this be it?

When I was UU, they constantly told us this fable. I believe it is used to switch people to another worldview, to deny absolute truth in the mind. Refer to this other blog article of mine: "Emergents are Just Like Unitarian Universalists"

I'm going to quote myself here....

When I was UU, they would tell me, truth was ever evolving [this is present in the Emergent view of a changed Christianity], no one human holds the definite truth, and would retell that awful story about the elephant and blind men where the blind men would feel a different part of the elephant claiming it was something else, and that this means humankind was condemned to live in the dark, and none of us could be sure about anything, and we had to at least consider truth in other religions and places. I've since heard this story told in other liberal churches. The main message is doubt, and you cannot trust your own mind. It is fascinating seeing the wikipedia link that this story is a well-used fable in other false religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism. Again Satan's lies remain the same in the whole pantheon of Mystery Babylon. Postmodernism is confusion and VAIN PHILOSOPHY. Never trust any religious message that preaches doubt and confusion. Reject this lying garbage of Satan. The Bible tells us we can have certainty and that is what the Christian must believe.

Here is another telling of this tale...

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
Though all of them were blind,
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant
And, happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me, but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis very clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal
And, happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up he spake:
"I see," quoth he, "The Elephant
Is very like a snake!" The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most the wondrous beast is like
Is very plain," quoth he;
"Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said, "Even the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can:
This marvel of an elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong.
Though each was partly in the right,
They all were in the wrong!
-- John Godfrey Saxe

By naming this event The Elephant Room, were these pastors admitting they are "spiritually blind"? It seems an odd phrase to choose. Most likely, it is about promoting the new church emergent paradigm of telling people that "truth cannot be known" or that "everyone is limited in their ability to know truth" to depart from the absolute truths of God's Word. In other words, everyone is stumbling in the dark fumbling around with different parts of the "elephant". What a disturbing denial of Christian truth, and seeking to revamp things in people's minds.

I know I should do a blog post soon, telling you what the deceivers want to change in detail. But as you read this, know they want to change people's minds and worldviews, they want to form a global vision and spirituality, an idea of truth as being nebulous, and ever changing. The Emergents were merely the front foot soldiers in the campaign to confuse.

The more I see of these "modern" pastors even beyond their false teachings, the more disturbed I am. Anyone here notice yet, how they all dress, and act almost the exact same? And repeat the same phrases over and over like "Radical" [see the Radicalist link above] as if all individuality has been lost? Are some of you starting to notice, from what I have posted on this blog how they are all "networked" in together?

[see here too: "Three More Conversations From the Elephant Room"]


Anonymous said...

The reason for naming it elephant certainly seems that way. I agree. Also their dressing and acting alike is called by Paul "emulation". It is actually a fruit of the unholy spirit, which is Satan. Anon. #1

Labby said...

Actually what you wrote just confirmed something for me that I have been feeling about James MacDonald. He is on our local radio station along with Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah and others, but there is something about MacDonald that doesn't set right with me. The manner with which he talks about certain subjects and just being a little off in some areas. I try not to listen to him anymore, and now even more so. Thanks for the information - the elephant explanation is interesting.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing Christian about the video. And there Greg Laurie is. No surprise. Greg all outfitted in his 'black' too, which probably represents more than conformity to the group, if you get my drift. They're obviously working as 'change agents' - to change thinking in the churches to conform to the globalist antichrist mindset and agenda. The tough guy image they're trying to convey to attract gullible young men is embarrassingly juvenile and insensible coming from professed 'Christian' adult men, just a social level up from a teen street gang.

Labby said...

The word came to me that I was looking for - IRREVERENT.

When I listen to someone speak, and they have a tone of irreverence it strikes me that there are moments when they say something that seems a bit daring or hip even, but it is irreverent, then it seems later I almost always find out that they are teaching falsehoods.

That is what would come to mind when I would hear James MacDonald on the radio. Interesting that there does seem to be certain calling cards of that group.

Bible Believer said...

First anon, that is interesting, I would agree, I also say "one mind of the beast" too to explain that, the people become all the same.


1. (n.) The endeavor to equal or to excel another in qualities or actions; an assiduous striving to equal or excel another; rivalry.

2. (n.) Jealous rivalry; envy; envious contention.


There is something wrong with so many of them become cookie-cuttters of each other.

Bible Believer said...

Second Anon, yes be careful with James McDonald, the rest as well. Davd Jeremiah has occult markers in his church.

One thing to realize with these folks, they will preach on a few truths but bring in many lies.

Bible Believer said...

I agree anon #3 nothing Christian about the video with it's gravely voiced announcer and trying to make these guys look "tough". The comment about women and catfights, was beyond eye-rolling. I agree this is about changing thinking in the churches, for the "new paradigms" of global spirituality and worse.
I find the whole we are "tough" "marketing" makes them look absurd, all the focus on "hip" very youthful dress where they are not dressed befitting their age, in at least several of the cases but being dressed the same as teenagers is one of those facets.

Bible Believer said...

Thats a good word IRREVERENT...well often if one sees one of these 'hip' pastors, they often include the irreverent jokes and stances. They use foul language in some cases and in others joke about things that are unsettling. I witnessed a local pastor making jokes about adultery [he presented himself as against it] and avoiding the 'sexy' women at the beach, many were laughing at his jokes and they were humorous on the surface, but I was surprised myself to see a pastor joking that way, and turned off by it. There is no sober-mindedness, it is like jokes from a world, I do not relate too, kind of like only the 'cool wisecracking kids" can become pastors now, and the bookworm quiet types, don't even try to get in the door. To me some of this stuff, goes with the overall dumbing down of society, the glorification of youth, and the shallow, never be serious, everything about "entertainment" and being the most "charismatic." I watch some of these antics and find my intelligence insulted. Sometimes I wonder how churches full of mature grown adults [spiritual status even taken out of the equation] over the age of 35 can even take it.....

Abbey said...

Mark Driscoll is unbelievable! How could he even call himself a pastor? Anyone that is truly saved should see this as wickedness. If they don't, they have a big problem.

It's very common nowadays with people. Who do they REALLY think God is? Where is the awe of an almighty God?! The Bible tells us that John, the Apostle that would lay his head on Jesus' chest and loved him deeply, fell on his face as a dead man at the sight of the glorified Jesus. There will NOT be any treating Jesus as a buddy and cracking jokes when we see him.

Bible Believer said...

I found out about that book [Mark Driscoll's], researching this article, and the title even shocked me! I couldn't believe that was ok, with the man's church or any of them who follow him. I do not think they understand who God is? Where is the biblical fear of God, in understanding who He is. You make a very good point there. There will be no jokes. Where is the love and respect for the majesty of God? In fact one thing that Bible tells Christians is be sober-minded. We can have joy but the warnings about the "mirth" of the wicked are interesting.

Ecc 7:4 The heart of the wise [is] in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools [is] in the house of mirth.

Yeah a book title like that made me want to cry. Just thinking what has happened!??

When they write books with dirty jokes for titles, you really got to wonder. I think it's mostly to sell books too, but it shows a sold-out person to the wickedness of this world.

Lisa Ruby said...

Bible Believer wrote: "David Platt has written an Emergent flavored book called Radical, which is now making the bible study circuit, and includes plenty of false paradigms in selling 'global spirituality" with endless uses of the phrase "global purpose" and the austerity program of the elites."

With all due respect to those who sincerely think David Platt is an excellent bible teacher (I know several sincere people who are studying this book), please note the the bottom line teaching of David Platt's book, Radical: Those who really love and follow "Christ" will willingly re-distribute their wealth to third world countries.

Note: If Christians won't give up their finances/possessions to organizations hungry to redistribute their wealth to third world countries, they will be forced to do so in the near future.

See: ‘Redistribution of Wealth’ Christian charity or FORCED SHARING OF YOUR WEALTH

Bible Believer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

I noticed that right away.

What is odd to me reading those books, is while more and more Americans sink under the economic waves, foreclosed houses, homelessness, unemployment, unable to afford medical care, collapsing the out of touch false pastors who are marketed to the upper middle class and above tell the "wealthier" Christians send it overseas and they do so blindly. Now I am not against mission programs to preach the gospel and helping one's fellow man, but this is a different program, about the global elites desiring for all wealth to be sent out of this country and collect it for themselves. I have seen areas where there is immense poverty in their "very" county, but the local rich large church is making the latest Bono-Clinton-"name celebrity here" big money collection. The poor often NEVER see that money, with Haiti, nothing was fixed and I remember posting elsewhere, an article that basically said "Where did the 2 billion dollars go?"

So often while well meaning people want to help the poor and suffering elsewhere, the money disappears into a vast pit. Same for a lot of charities, check even how much money and overhead and salaries that are drawn for the big name ones.

But even here we have the disconnect in America, ties into that social disconnection article I wrote. The wealthier folks in these bigger churches write endless checks to go overseas, while the poorer folks more of them stay home, knowing the church of "Party Divas" with their creme brulee, fancy programs, and religious tourism where the pastor goes to Jamaica for a two week religious tourism tour instead of helping in America does not represent their life whatsoever. Watching this stuff, I want to cry sometimes remembering my one pastor taking up collections for an unemployed family in the church and others, where help is given directly. Sometimes the more liberal churches will help when asked, and there are individually kind people who do help the poor in their midst, but giving has been made impersonal and at high levels.

America is having the biggest wealth clean-out in history, even the Middle Eastern wars are about sending money out of here.

All the big churches are signed on to the global elite plan, and I definitely saw it in that book "Radical". To that guy, poor Americans do not even seem to exist.

Oh yes, they want to diminish life here, in sort of a Marxist "put everyone at the same level sort of way". Do not know how bringing one group down will bring everyone else up, when America gave the most world charity for decades. They are programming people to accept their serf status willingly.

For those who are naive enough to think the United Nations "war on poverty" and "one" campaigns are truly altruistic, and will bring new levels of life to the poor across the world please wake up, it is not so. If your church has any relationship or involvement with the UN, get out of there!

Thank you for that link. Yes that is the game plan, redistribute the wealth. The global elites I believe want America broken down, we served the purpose for their formation of one world government and have served our purpose. The Pope supports the UN/global elite plan actually DIRECTLY calling for REDISTRIBTUION of the wealth which I wrote on here.

David Platt is basically preaching the Pope's plan. Interesting how that happens isn't it?

I tell people send to a good overseas mission to preach the gospel as much as you can but help those you know around you as well. Make "giving" personal where God brings to you those who are in need. Make sure you know where your help is going and if it will be utilized.

Anonymous said...

[Hi Galatians 4. Re the David Jeremiah mentions, I saw this revelation on the web! Monique]


by Louise Norman

Quite some time ago I came across an article titled "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" by Dave MacPherson on the Powered by Christ Ministries site. Halfway down was a photo of Pastor David Jeremiah next to a statement claiming that his book "Escape the Coming Night," published in 1990, "massively plagiarized" Hal Lindsey's 1973 book "There's A New World Coming." Readers were also told to type in "Thieves' Marketing" on MSN and Google.
I decided to examine those two books and eventually discovered incredible amounts of plagiarism in Jeremiah's book on at least 45 pages (MacPherson said he found it on 47 pages), most of it discovered in the last half. For example, there are 165 lines of text on pp. 202-206 in Jeremiah's "Escape," and more than half of these lines - 84 lines! - were clearly lifted from Lindsey's "New World" without giving Lindsey any credit.
Speaking of plagiarism, let's compare the books in question:
Lindsey (p. 256): "The...skill of the great Designer" has "gone into the making of these gowns. They are to be made of fine linen" which "symbolizes the righteous deeds done by the saints while they lived on earth."
Jeremiah (p. 203): "The wedding gown will be made by the master Designer, and it symbolizes the righteous deeds done by the bride on earth...." " gown" is made of "fine linen...."
Lindsey (p. 255): "...I believe that the friends of the Groom who will attend...include both the Old Testament saints and the Tribulation saints...."
Jeremiah (p. 204): "I believe Israel...will be present, along with the saints who survive the Tribulation and the resurrected Old Testament saints...."
Lindsey (pp. 259, 260): "Think of how many Old Testament prophets and how many millions of saints have longed to see the moment when Jesus would return to earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and establish His kingdom of justice, equity, and peace...."
"It always amazed me that so many professing Christians and ministers doubt that Jesus Christ will literally, visibly, and personally come back to this earth."
"The Prophet Zechariah predicted five hundred years before Christ was born that His foot would first touch the earth at the Mount of Olives...."
Jeremiah (pp. 205, 206): "From Old Testament prophets to present-day believers, millions of saints have longed for the moment they could see Jesus return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords to establish His kingdom of peace and justice...."
"It is amazing to me that many teachers and pastors...doubt that Christ will return in person."
"...the prophet Zechariah predicted (500 years before Christ was born) that His feet would stand on the Mount of Olives...."
You have just seen a tiny fraction of the plagiarism in David Jeremiah's "Escape the Coming Night." Note that plagiarists often add, subtract, or change words (including the order of words in a sentence) in order to conceal their thievery.
Incredibly, Jeremiah's "Notes" section in the back of his book lists many popular prophecy books of our time that are still being published, but for some strange (or not so strange) reason he doesn't list any of Hal Lindsey's books including the one I just featured!
I wonder how many other commentaries on the book of Revelation have lines that should be stamped "STOLEN"!

Bible Believer said...

Very interesting. Sounds like all those lines were lifted and then paraphrased to hide it. Did one author file a complaint against the other?

Anonymous said...

hmmm i just read this and i noticed the reference to the famous blind men and the elephant tale. Actually the conference was named after a famous English idiom...not a tale: "There is an Elephant in the room" or an obvious truth that is being unadressed or ignored that's all....u shud visit james macdonald's blog and see his posts of some clips of the actual discussions that they had. It's a refrence to an idiom.....not a tale or fable.

Bible Believer said...

I've been over to Jame's McDonald's blog.

Does he claim it's named after this idiom. Even if they named it after that, what is the elephant in the room remaining unnamed? False ecumenical preachers.....could be one of those things.

Actually I haven't posted some of the scary stuff I have watched from there yet.

I found the one where they talk about only the "right" people {the wolves in the pulpit] can warn of anything. This is just used to get people to not listen to the Christians who are warning about things.

"1. Correction is Needed but From the Right People
In this clip, Matt Chandler reminds there is error in both the orthodoxy and evangelistic camps. Perry Noble agrees that doctrinal error needs to be called out but with some good suggestions for who and how. David Platt concludes with a great challenge about the importance of the purity of the gospel. GREAT clip! Love it."

The videos seem to be down now, but I saw it when it was up..

I hope you do not follow these false apostate preachers, will be praying.

Anonymous said...

Every time I read these "discernment" blogs I am left wondering, "what do YOU believe?" It's always easy to critique the words of teachers/pastors/Christians, without ever stating your own faith and beliefs. Obviously the reason that you don't do so is because then you would be open to similar criticism. I am almost more curious about which church you attend, so I can learn the "correct" interpretation and application of the Bible from your pastor. Then again, I'm going to guess that you are not submissive to any church authority.

Bible Believer said...

LOL, why would you ask "What do YOU believe" on a blog, that is cholk-full of personal beliefs including personal testimony, eschatological etc, the church I was in for years where I considered them of one of the rare ones to preach the truth... Read the blog, then you will find out what I believe. :)

Some want endless complex catechism like lists of "beliefs" so they can nit-pick. Read the Bible, then too you can find out what I believe.

As for being "submissive" to church authority, that in today's world is definitely the road to perdition considering the endless ecumenical false preachers. With the Elephant Room, those "pastors" hold some of the most false teachings out there. There are many Christians who post on this blog who would love to have a godly assembly of believers to be with, instead of being more in isolation, but we choose to put obedience to God above obedience to men and will not follow false preachers who teach ecumenical lies, and false doctrine. There are many FALSELY teaching that Christians must submit to church authority, interesting teaching, in the time of the great falling away, which is happening now. If you are an evangelical, the Catholic church made that a huge theme, submit to us! so it is interesting there are evangelicals and others teaching the lies of the Nicholatians in their own way.

Anonymous said...

Bible believer, are you really saying that you choose "isolation" over gathering with other believers in person? As a true follower of God, I pray that you are not choosing the internet as your main source of Christian fellowship and instruction. Do you realize how many biblical principles and commands you are disobeying while you supposedly obey God in isolation? How do you obey the command to gather with other believers (Heb 10:25) when you freely choose "isolation"? Teaching is just one aspect of a church gathering, albeit an important one. But how do you use your spiritual gifts in "isolation", or edify others in "isolation"? How do you receive prayer and anointing from elders in "isolation"? How do you bear and share others burdens in "isolation"?...or serve one another in love?...or care for widows and orphans? If you are truly "choos[ing] to put obedience to God above obedience to men", you would be regularly gathering with other believers. One of the weaknesses of choosing your fellowship circle is that you never put yourself in uncomfortable situations with other believers. The Bible is chockfull of commandments about what to do when we disagree with believers in close proximity. Your responses and "discernment" are self-righteous to the point that you have distanced yourself from the people in churches that need to not only hear the truth, but to see the truth lived out. If you are choosing isolation, you are choosing to be "right" by yourself, and you are allowing others to believe lies. You are not turning the "deceived" to Jesus through this blog, you are turning believers into self-righteous individuals (much like the Pharisees of Jesus' day) who choose their own growth over the spiritual growth and salvation of others. If you want to be like Jesus, teach others how to serve those around them, rather than teaching others how to serve themselves. Is this really what you want to be found doing when Jesus comes back - talking with other believers about which pastors and spiritual leaders are apostate? I really am praying for you and your followers, that you will all choose to live out and to share the Gospel with those around you. I'm also curious, what church did you attend that "preached the truth"?

Bible Believer said...

No Christian would choose isolation in fact there are many Christians who are in isolation not by choice but being obedient to God and not staying within a church body that teaches false things or is part of the ecumenical movement. If you go to more recent posts, I wrote about the fact in the Bible it warns the hirelings would scatter the sheep...and it's happened.

I would love to be in a Godly church that preaches the Word and the Truth and to have other Christians to pray and fellowship with. Just standing against the churches that are part of the one world religion, wipes out 95% of them and that of course includes Calvary Chapel since some have exposed the Boykin, Knights of Malta, Rick Warren connections. All of the preachers at the Elephant Room conference are connected in some way to the apostate one world church either via Calvary Chapel or Rick Warren.

If you go back in the blog you can read about my time in a decent IFB, no place is perfect and I warned them even of Dominionism but they were fellow born again believers and renounced the one world church. This church was a blessing in my life...[I still have contact with it's members and it's old pastor]

Of course many fundamentalist churches even are being infiltrated and going down Dominionist, Vision Forum highway so one has to still discern.

Also please see these articles:

So no I do not "choose" isolation. Whatever God wills for me, it will happen, perhaps this is a time of testing....

but what is your answer for Christians, to go sign up with a false church and imbide spiritual poison in a pew? Just to go sit in a building? To sit there to have friends but ignore what is happening in front of one's eyes? If God tells me to leave a church or have nothing to do with it, then I must obey and that is true for many others.

. I probably could actually have quite the enjoyable social whirlwind, to even be able to attend a church down the street if I could ignore the endless false teachings and the bidding of the Holy Spirit to get out of there....

I gather with other believers as much as possible. We pray and more.

I also seek to serve others as much as God leads me, and vice versa.

Many Christians like myself have gone into local churches only to find ears closed to the truth, and people who support hirelings that preached endless falsehoods. When I left the Catholic church, I knew the message from the Holy Spirit was "COME OUT OF HER" [rev 17] and that applies to all other daughters of the harlot.

You know what happens when you disagree with nominal "Christians", or tell them the truth? I've been in that place many times. [done privately and biblically] They tell you Rick Warren is a Christian too, do not be divisive, they give you the "scripts" that I have written about on this board, and seek to lead you to join with the false stuff too.

Even you calling those who believe that Christians are to come out of the one world church are Pharisees is actually nothing new to me. I know 99% of the Christian world perceives anyone who warns about the one world harlot church to be a Pharisee. I can't forget what I know or what God has shown me and neither can many others.

I am guessing you are a supporter of the pastors discussed in this blog article. I will pray for you in that they are deceiving many.

Bible Believer said...

correction to above...99% of the "nominal" Christian world.

Bible Believer said...

Oh I wanted to answer this:

"Is this really what you want to be found doing when Jesus comes back - talking with other believers about which pastors and spiritual leaders are apostate? "

Actually YES. Ephesians 5.

I believe God calls different Christians to different "jobs" or roles in the body. This may be a different job, but there are some who have been given it, and Thank God for that, I remember being a new Christian and reading other blogs like this one YEARS ago.

Someone needs to be exposing what is going on. I benefited greatly from Christians daring to tell the truth about Roman Catholicism. Glad some did not remain silent and were not shamed into being quiet.

You are right, we need to keep preaching the gospel, that part is true.

Are you from Calvary Chapel? Just curious...

mrwbbiii said...


terriergal said...

" I learned that some Christians think that Rick Warren is a heretic??? (Presumably the same ones that have now added me to that list??)"

Say, the quote about Rick Warren by James Macdonald, where is that from? I would like to use it. This whole thing disgusts me.

Anonymous said...

You absolutely amaze me. Your beliefs are so far off base it's not even funny. How in the world could you make the mindless jump from the name of the conference to make it about the blind men and the elephant? It is completely in reference to the English idiom. You'll read anything into everything. I just don't get where you're coming from.

Bible Believer said...

So why'd they name it that?

What do elephants and watered down evangelical Christianity have in common?

Anonymous said...

Number 1 - it's not watered down Christianity.
Number 2 - it's using the idiom "an elephant in the room." They were willing to sit in the room and discuss things that some people avoid. Not all of these men agree on methods or approach to ministry and they were willing to talk about those things. But, I believe that all of them love Jesus and His church. So, they were willing to talk about "the elephant in the room" in order that the Gospel could be advanced. We can learn lots from other believers (and you should try it some time). Your opinion of the title has nothing to do with what they were doing. Why are you so conspiracy theory minded?

Anonymous said...

I was reading in 1 Timothy this afternoon and thought of you. I think you're living out these words (1 Timothy 1:5-8) with this blog of yours -

"5Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:6From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;"

This blog doesn't seem focused on Christian love at all. You seem to have "turned aside unto vain jangling." I think you have a desire to be a teacher of God's truth, but you're confused on the application and understanding of Scripture. As a result, all these things and people you're against cause you to be diverted off of God's Word and applying it to your life.

Just some food for thought.

Bible Believer said...

Other believers? So you think everyone who calls themselves a Christian is? I do not think so. This elephant room was a collection of the most new world order connected, and ecumenical teachers there are. I am sorry you cannot discern these things. You never answered, what is the elephant in the room? That is a fable used to advance the questioning of absolute truth. So why'd they pick it. Are they big game hunters? 'no', Were they funding wild life? 'no". As for conspiracy theory, try researching the things I have exposed on this blog or are you ok with one of your elephant room favorites sharing a stage with a Knights of Malta [the Pope's men] member?

That is just the tip of the ice berg of their false teachings and one world church endeavors.

I know "conspiracy theory" is a phrase that many have used to shut down all discussion. Conspiracies are real, all we have to do is look at the corruption even with the banks, they are NOT theories. The Bible says otherwise. I hope you can wake up to the truth.

I have nothing to learn from those who cannot even discern the false beast world government system and one world religion warned of in Revelation and who have joined with it.

Bible Believer said...

With this comment---

"This blog doesn't seem focused on Christian love at all. You seem to have "turned aside unto vain jangling." I think you have a desire to be a teacher of God's truth, but you're confused on the application and understanding of Scripture. As a result, all these things and people you're against cause you to be diverted off of God's Word and applying it to your life."

Please stop following the "you're a hater" script. You are not the first so will just throw you this link to help you show where I am coming from...

I address the "hater script" here...

These men do not preach God's Word but have been exposed with endless ties to Babylon.

Bible Believer said...

Anonymous said...

I'm not calling you a hater. I'm saying you're getting sidetracked. God isn't as exclusive as you are. Jesus is the only way to salvation. You're adding to that message. Orthodox doctrine is important. But, you're adding to it. Honestly - much of what you're doing fits in nicely with the Pharisees way of thinking.

Bible Believer said...

Is someone following the "right" jesus? Just because someone may use words like JESUS does not mean they are an actual born again believer. If one waters things down that much, there are New Age teachers who use the name "jesus".

I knew just days in, the RCC was false, and Rick Warren was a false preacher after being born again. So what gives with Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie and the rest? I am not adding to the gospel. These men have no excuse for "ignorance of this nature". I've been called a Pharisee before, for not following the celebrity preachers. Not surprised there. They use that term themselves for anyone who dares to question their discernment.

I can accept there are born again individuals who are simple folks who are ignorant of what some of these guys are up to and who they are associated with but again there is no excuse for these top preachers "ignorance" even recognizing Catholicism as a false gospel.

Anonymous said...

Wanting to talk about the elephant in the room has nothing to do with story of the blind men going to "see" the elephant. It is a reference to the elephant sitting in the corner of the room but everyone acts as if it isn't there. (

I recommend reading Romans very closely when people get uptight about someone else's Christianity. Don't be like the Judaizers who attempted to put the weight of the Law on the Gentile Christians. If someone's Christianity doesn't look exactly like your Christianity, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a heretic.

You have to be right about Jesus. As long as someone is in Christ, there is no condemnation. (Rom. 8:1)

Bible Believer said...

A lot are in a 'false christ", and the Bible warns of those who follow "another christ". Those who follow the ecumenical one world religion 'christ" are on the path of perdition. There is false "chrsitianity" out there. So your seeming belief that everyone should automatically accept someone as a "Chrstian" who uses the word "jesus" or "Christ" is dangerous spiritual advice, that applies even to the Pope and why so many are deceived and accepting him as a fellow "christian" instead of antichrist.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Many of these people who say they are in Jesus Christ, are NOT.

Anonymous said...

While it is true that there are those who will say "Lord, Lord" and will be told "Depart from me, I never knew you", it is also true that there were those who were not following along with the disciples but were casting out demons in Jesus' name. Mark 9:38 ff. Jesus told the disciples not to hinder them. I have learned over the years that it is unwise to judge when you only have part of the story.

When I see God's name lifted up in praise and peoples' lives changing from all kinds of ungodliness to a clean-living life, earnestly seeking God's will, I have a hard time saying that isn't God's work. I am very careful not to attribute what looks a lot like the work of the Holy Spirit to some other cause because offending the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

Anonymous said...

The elephant in the room is, that there are a lot of false teachers in what is called "Christendom".