Sunday, January 2, 2011

Ex-Catholic Speaks of Finding God's Grace

I remember when I left the Catholic church, and one reason I am posting this, is when I became born again, I realized my salvation was to lie in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Like her, I read the book of Romans and Hebrews too. I finally saw through the false "good person" rhetoric especially pertaining to the Catholic church. Don't get me wrong here, remember I have written against the false gospels in the evangelical world where a watered down gospel rules. Good works are the fruit of real faith. Conviction for the Christian is a life-long process. We come to salvation realizing what we are compared to the perfection of God. During the Christian's life, the Holy Spirit will convict you of many things.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

How many "good works are the fruit of real faith"? What if you don't have enough good works? Are you sure you have enough?

And do you see that is just works for salvation, just backloaded to believing instead of frontloaded? It's catholicism without the works up front. They're just stuck on the back.

Here's salvation: Jesus. John 6:47. The Gospel is that simple. Yes, we ought to have works and a changed life. But no, we aren't to add that demand to the Gospel :)

http://www.faithalone.org/Sure/Default.htm

Bible Believer said...

I agree with you that the gospel is simple. Salvation is not based on good works at all but true repentance and trusting in Jesus Christ alone as your Lord and Savior. Hope you didn't misunderstand my statement. I agree that demand should not be added to the gospel. However truly being born again will produce good works or things people are led to via the Holy Spirit. I think you would agree with me that Christians do learn and grow, and are convicted by the Holy Spirit as things go on.

Bible Believer said...

I noticed your website, where it said "You can be sure" [this is true in that the Christian in relationship with God can know where they stand--the "certainty of the things you have been taught" Luke 1;4] but easy believism is producing endless false conversions where people believe they are Christians and are not and who fall away. In today's church world, we should be preaching on this verse more:

"2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Anonymous said...

2 Corinthians 13:5 is referring to rewards, not to whether a person has everlasting life. Especially since, the church in Corinth was all believers. Paul calls them brethren throughout. He isn't then suddenly asking them to find out if they are truly brethren or not :)

The accusation of "easy believism" can be laid against Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter, as well as others.

If you are unable to take Jesus' words at face value, that He gives everlasting life to all who believe in Him for it, then you cannot claim to believe much different about salvation than the catholics believe.

You are confusing rewards with salvation. Salvation is a free gift. Rewards are not free, but rewards demand works.

Anonymous said...

By the way, that website is not mine :)

Bible Believer said...

I agree salvation is a free gift. :)

Anonymous said...

Actually, he was not referring to "rewards". A careful reading of the letter to the Corinthians shows that there were those "believers" among them who were reprobates, based on their behavior Paul spoke about. These people had the "easy believism" to which BB referred. Their works proved that they still had a pagan mentality --ritually lying with one's mother, abstinence from sexual relations in marriage, fasting before attending the Supper, then gorging upon it and getting drunk when they attended it, attending both the tables of the idols and of the Supper, etc. All these things showed UNCONVERTED BEHAVIOR. That is why Paul in that verse is telling them to prove if they were really in the Faith. There were those claiming to "believe", but believing in what they thought the Gospel was--another version of their mystery cults. We tend to forget that there are two kinds of believers: those with empty faith and those with the Faith from above. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

My reply above is really from the Anon. #2, but I usually call myself Anon. #1, so sorry about that.

Anonymous said...

Well I know it is about rewards, so, we are at a point of disagreement :) You can believe what you wish, and I will believe what I know to be true :)

Anonymous said...

Not all who call Him, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is because they are reprobates. To deny that there are many such persons, is not Scriptural. Anon. #2 :)

Anonymous said...

Yes, all who called Him "Lord, Lord" in Matthew 7:21-23, thought that their works proved them to be saved. That's why they all pointed to their works, as you are doing. It speaks of you, not me.

Bible Believer said...

I don't think anyone here is saying point to your works. Do you believe in the concept that there are false conversions out there in the evangelical church? Look at the evil things being done under the 'Christian' banner in this world. Surely you must admit that sort of thing exsists.

Anonymous said...

There are false conversions. They are all works-based "conversions".

Ask any catholic. They don't believe that you're saved by faith alone in Jesus. Yet that is the only way to be saved. But they'll still call themselves "Christians". Tons of people do this. They think "I do Christian stuff, so I'm Christian". That is what Matthew 7:21-23 is addressing.

They failed to do the will of the Father. What is the will of the Father? John 6:40 tells us. Faith in Jesus. That easy.

Check also John 6:28-29.

False teachers always want to squeeze works in somewhere, either before salvation, or after salvation. Catholicism does that, as does much of protestantism. Some evangelicals do it too. Those are false conversions, and since there is no real power in their conversion, they then do the things that you are referring to.

Please also don't forget, that all Christians still struggle against sin. You won't find much of an audience if you're assuming some level of "sinlessness" for salvation, a level that you can't define and the Bible never defines either.

Bible Believer said...

I don't believe works save at all. Read some of my Catholic posts I left that behind. Whatever good works one has are a fruit of salvation. But that doesnt mean I follow the people who believe the only real Christians are ones who are "sinless". The problem here is look at the evangelical church, and the level of false conversions, that are not based in true biblical Holy Spirit inspired conversion, full repentenance and all. How else can you explain why the evangelical churches have lost the plot? Most have united with Rome. I read today Rick Warren has invited a Catholic apologist Peter Kreeft to one of his seminars. Many evangelicals I run into online, consider the Catholic church, another "Christian" church.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Rick Warren has been off the track for decades. But there's the point. Do you think that "catholic apologist" came to teach faith alone without works? No, he came to teach works. That's why the evangelical church has lost the plot, as you say. They are off the track, due to catholic infiltration, which includes the catholic false doctrine of demanding works for salvation, whether those works be before salvation, or after salvation.

Yes, we ought to have our faith be mature in leading to works. But no, we can't demand those works for salvation. Sanctification is separate from salvation :) That's the point of rewards in heaven, and the strong encouragement to go for them.

But catholicism mixes the two, as if there were no distinction. The evangelical church has lost the plot, because they are becoming catholic, even in soteriology.