Tuesday, September 28, 2010

The Global Faith Forum


Here is a new evangelical ecumenical event: Global Faith Forum, whose website states:


Why Attend?
The Evangelical Church says we want to reach the world, but do we really understand the world? At the Global Faith Forum, we’re moving from a conversation about other faiths, to a conversation with other faiths. A conversation that allows us to hear from leaders with different faiths, different worldviews and different ideas that shape the way we communicate in the 21st century.

This is just repackaged Catholic interfaith "dialogue" for the evangelical masses, and has nothing to do with preaching the gospel, but more about joining world religions together via unity in diversity. Check out the speakers and globalist aspects to the scheduled programs. One of their sponsors is the Council on Foreign Relations, need I say more?

By the way this group is Lausanne connected: via one of the speakers. That is Raymond J. Bakke who served as Senior Associate for Large Cities with the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelism from 1979 to 1995. I was not able to figure out if this was one of the multitudes of 'official global conversation" events that are being held along with the Lausanne Movement's Capetown 2010, but it definitely is of the same flavor.

If you haven't read my warnings about the Lausanne Movement yet, read here.

Keeping Them Ignorant in the Pews



I found this latest article: "Survey: Americans Don't Know Much About Religion" about the demise of religious literacy, where people don't even know basics, such as Luther's role in the Reformation or that the Catholic church teaches the "Real Presence" in their Eucharist to be quite interesting.


Forty-five percent of Roman Catholics who participated in the study didn't know that, according to church teaching, the bread and wine used in Holy Communion is not just a symbol, but becomes the body and blood of Christ.

More than half of Protestants could not identify Martin Luther as the person who inspired the Protestant Reformation. And about four in 10 Jews did not know that Maimonides, one of the greatest rabbis and intellectuals in history, was Jewish.

Before I begin this, I had my days of deception and ignorance as well, it was interesting where deciding to learn about my then "Catholic faith" led, which was right out the door!

I still remember the day I asked two Catholic acquaintances, at a Catholic bible study if they believed in transubstantiation, then reading Catholic books and the Bible at the same time. In my case, I knew about the teaching that the bread and wine in the Catholic Eucharist, at least in Medieval times was believed to become the body and blood of "jesus" but had somehow wrongly figured this was not an expected belief anymore in the modern Catholic church and found out differently. In response to my question, those two ladies asked, "What is that?" and when I explained it, one said, "That can't be right, you have to be kidding me."

My own earlier ignorance included very little knowledge of the Bible, except for the smatterings acquired in Catholic school, [until I started reading it well into adulthood] and very little about the evangelical world. Even as recently as a few years ago, I thought all baptists were conservative and while maybe not all fundamentalist at least totally renounced Roman Catholicism. Little did I know.

The Bible says in Luke 12:48 "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." So I believe God will take into account what a person knows or doesn't know. The above does not entail that everyone be a biblical scholar to be born again, in other words God knows your gifts and your limitations as well.

With those who are born again, the Holy Spirit is continuously teaching us and showing us many new things. Even if studying God's Word for a lifetime, there is always something new to learn.

But in a society where things are getting more dumbed down which includes a public school system that seems more about brainwashing and socialization then real education, there is trouble afoot. So many of the churches, have massively watered things down, its like even the average person's IQ drops 20 points, as they teach you repetitive songs and do sermons on the most banal and uniformed topics. Think Joel Osteen and mega church extravaganzas and the mixture of church programs with modern entertainment, where they start doing sermons on movies. One result spiritual affect of all this dumbing down of Christianity has helped the growing apostasy along, this study found only 1 percent of young adults held a biblical worldview. That's a major problem.

More and more the hirelings probably figure the less people know, the less they will see through the deception. In other words, people are being kept ignorant in the pews on purpose, fed a diet of pop-psychology, watered down ecumenical "lowest common denominator" Christianity, cultural relevancy, celebrity worship and other distractions. This is why the churches especially have gone so bad, with people who are easily fooled, trained not to check anything out, or think for themselves, and probably the most gullible on earth when it comes to the politicians and hirelings.

This is why I met people online, usually outraged at me for imparting messages they disagreed with, who didn't even know what the Word of Faith movement was, or were unable to see anything outside of a two sided box...such as telling folks, all fundamentalist Christians who use the KJV Bible are Ruckmanites or Hyper-Calvinists.

I'm OK with people not knowing things, there is a lot for all of us to learn, but one dangerous premise I see growing in the "Christian" world, is this lack of love for the truth, so many never want to research anything, do not want to look, and do not want to learn. Running into endless numbers of folks like this has not been an enjoyable experience. In fact it was dismaying and shocking, how so many rejected even just basic honest examination or responses. Honest disagreement is one thing, but attacking the messenger stuff is another. My only conclusion, is that the hatred of learning, is based in spiritual darkness, and that those walking with God, while this doesn't mean they will agree with everything they encounter, will test all things as instructed by the Bible.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Add to that the many who think once they have escaped Catholicism or Mormonism, that no more discernment is needed once they have gotten themselves "safely" into an evangelical church. The Bible warns us about this as well: about growing deception and those who do not love the truth. I do not relate to those "Christians" who simply do not want to know anything new, or to examine their teachers or test everything by the Bible. This does not mean fellow born again brothers and sisters in Christ will not have a disagreement on smaller matters once in a while, but the attitudes there, are different, there is a difference between a teachable spirit that says, "I will go and examine what you have discussed", or presents their side in love, and one that is unteachable and starts in automatically with the personal insults.


2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


The growing ignorance, is related to the growing spiritual darkness and the falling away we are now in.

Monday, September 27, 2010

Questioning Tim LaHaye




Tim LaHaye is popular in Calvary Chapel circles being invited to many of their churches. There are many other churches and Christian organizations, that invite Tim LaHaye to speak, and this was one recent Bible conference, that was held in Canada which included acouple popular teachers within Calvary Chapel circles. I find myself asking, given red flags were raised to me concerning Tim LaHaye even in my early days as a Christian, why is everyone so readily embracing what this man has to say without any prayer, or research?

Tim LaHaye, is a popular evangelical teacher, who has written many books expounding his Pre-Trib teachings, and is best known for being the co-author of the Left Behind series. He and Thomas Ice run the Pre-Trib Research Center. Much has been written about this man, with many websites warning about him, his teachings and more.

Even worse are his political associations, which have included being one of the founders of the politically involved Council for National Policy and dealings with the so called "Reverend" Moon. [yes that Reverend Moon, the guy who has announced himself to be the world's messiah]. One author describes the scene in the book "Moon Rising: How Reverend Moon Created the Washington Times, Seduced the Religious Right, and Built an American Kingdom" : [as you read this remember Moon was imprisoned for tax evasion:]

"LaHaye paid Moon a tearful visit in prison, according to Bo Hi Pak. "Reverend Moon, I apologize on behalf of my government," LaHaye had said holding the hands of the man who was the newly minted Reverend Doctor Moon. The colonel recalled that LaHaye told Moon, "Your suffering will cleanse the sins of
America"

LaHaye is not the only one who has been linked to Moon or having organizations that have taken Moon donations, there have been many other famous "pastors" and teachers, who have been exposed as being involved, including the now deceased Jerry Falwell.





Even liberals have come out calling LaHaye a shill and questioning the weird "Christian Right" associations. It doesn't take much research to find out, that a lot of what this man has been involved with is quite questionable.

After I was newly saved, having read the Left Behind series as a Catholic, and reading my Bible, there was a lot that was majorly "off" I never liked Left Behind, and in response got and read the book "God's Wrath on Left Behind" and was glad someone else was noticing and exposing the endless deceptions, and anti biblical messages within the books. Reading Left Behind books themselves was quite odd, realizing half the characters run around "working for the antichrist" which, seems to give the message, "hey its OK to work for a man indwelt with Satan" to Christians along with the even crazier insidious anti-life messages and the odd conjecture of one character in the books, being able to take the mark, and then later repent, which is against what the Bible teaches. Oh lest anyone forgets, what about the implicit ecumenical message of having both the Pope and Mother Teresa raptured? Read "God's Left Behind" to see these endless errors in depth, and check out this website.



Tim LaHaye has been tied to many ecumenical doings via his political endeavors. Moral Majority which he helped to co-found, brought Mormons, Catholics, and mainline Protestants together to fight the Dominionist flavored "culture-wars" I've already warned about on this blog. This group along with others, has helped form the foundation for today's Dominionists to marry state and religion. His wife Beverly LaHaye has worked with the politically oriented Concerned Women For America.

Do your research, there is a lot more to find out.

This is definitely a teacher out there, too many are blindly following, as he expounds his rapture teachings; emphasizing Christians won't be here for any trouble to come, and the message that everything is the "left's fault" when it's obvious many Republicans brought this country to the place it is too. Christians need to start reading their Bibles, and stop letting the politically connected [of this world] types lead the way, who skew Bible prophecy to mislead millions.

2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Tuesday, September 21, 2010

The Evangelical Subculture



"What would Jesus do bracelets" and fake "nails from the cross" necklaces sold during the movie "The Passion", represent some of the smaller items in evangelical subculture. Larger movements such as "the seeker sensitive" movement and Christian Contemporary Music are still others. It's where popular culture and Christianity comingle into an apostate stew. This doesn't mean that if a person buys a "Jesus loves you" magnet from the local Christian bookstore they are sinning, but there are definitely pitfalls to watch out for. This is one of the best articles I've seen on the subject.

Some excerpts:


The tragedy of the Evangelical Subculture is that people who have a sincere desire to follow Jesus get side tracked into a zeal for being a part of this worldly system. It is like joining a club. The club member begins to wear the clothes and trinkets bought at the "Christian" book stores; watch "Christian" TV and listen to "Christian" radio; buy the latest fad books that sweep the "Christian media"; subscribe to the "Christian" magazines; worship the "Christian" celebrities; use all the latest jargon promoted in the latest books by the celebrity authors.


[snip]
This Evangelical subculture has played a major role in setting professing Christians up for deception. It seduces people to think and act like the subculture instead of reading the Bible for themselves and deriving their understanding from the Bible.


I totally agree.

Monday, September 20, 2010

The Vatican Wants World Government #2: Redistribution of the World's Wealth



Interesting picture from Fox news, they aren't to be trusted either, but the caption says it all.

Lets start this article with this news article.

VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI called Tuesday for a new world financial order guided by ethics and the search for the common good, denouncing the profit-at-all-cost mentality blamed for bringing about the global financial meltdown.

The wicked powers that be in this world, have swung the pendulum from right to left to deceive. This is not to glorify any one political stand as the "answer" to the world's problems. All are limited and affected by human sin. Only in Jesus Christ, is there perfection. However the political intrigues exposed here, show the working of the antichrist and the bringing together of the one world government and how it is being done.



One way, that the control is being locked down, is by different deceptive uses of "class warfare" and communism vs. capitalism endeavors. The global elites, know they can exploit the poor, downtrodden or latest disaster to help bring in the money, while the poor never see the money. Knowing what the bible warns us of, the wickedness of this world, is a given. Too many are fooled by the deceitful politicians and religious leaders with pretend tears in their eyes, feigning care and concern for the oppressed.

One thing the global elites are selling is a new version of "world socialism" [often with corporate support in the background, the so called "third way" economics] partnered with the United Nations. The Roman Catholic church has made use of these opposing sides for centuries, to affect nations with the whole communism vs. fascism game plan. Fornication with kings a la Revelation 17:2 is happening now.

Let me show a definition of liberation theology: "Liberation theology is a school of theology within Christianity, particularly in the Roman Catholic Church. It emphasizes the Christian mission to bring justice to the poor and oppressed, particularly through political activism. Its theologians consider sin the root source of poverty, the sin in question being exploitative capitalism and class war by the rich against the poor." Saul Alinsky and ACORN are just rewarmed Liberation Theology for Americans and we know now that the USCCB [the organization of American Catholic bishops] via their group [Catholic Campaign for Human Development] CCHD helped finance ACORN even with Catholics crying out against some of these political agendas behind closed doors. Since then the CCHD separated from ACORN after scandalized conservative Catholics protested, but this was after the political goals were achieved. The Catholic "social gospel" with its emphasis on open borders, and class warfare is just liberation theology repackaged for America [the same stuff that made hash and brought corruption and ruin to so many Latin American countries]. If you wonder sometimes why the Catholic bishops here in America support certain devastating economic policies, liberal agendas, and political candidates , look at the big picture!

Finding all this stuff out brings some important questions to how the Catholic church defines "social justice". The false social justice gospel has invaded many a church where they focus on political agendas, over the gospel. This can happen from the other side too, but definitely the false cries of "bringing down the rich" to elevate the poor are being heard. They know this formula works, especially as world suffering and class divisions increase, and if anyone thinks these folks really "want to help the poor" as they are fooled right now by global elites about climate change and wanting to "end poverty" look at millions who died under Communist regimes fooled by that latter lie. There is nothing wrong with Christians led to provide help, with some safety nets for the ill and truly downcast, but these things are definitely exploited worldwide. If you hear politicians or religious leaders go on about the "common good", don't take it at face value. Don't forget the two sides against the middle Hegelian dialectic here, there is a reason, that folks like Michael Moore can get away with presenting socialism as the answer to corrupt "capitalism" [course banker bailouts of billions of dollars out of public coffers, makes the definition of "capitalism" a bit fluid]





Luke 3:14

14And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Matt 26:11

For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.


Now lets go back to the Pope's encyclical,CARITAS IN VERITATE it makes some of these economic plans plain for all to see:

Here the cry for a world government [a centralized economic authority] is insisted upon:

As well as cultivating differentiated forms of business activity on the global plane, we must also promote a dispersed political authority, effective on different levels. The integrated economy of the present day does not make the role of States redundant, but rather it commits governments to greater collaboration with one another.
[snip]


The articulation of political authority at the local, national and international levels is one of the best ways of giving direction to the process of economic globalization. It is also the way to ensure that it does not actually undermine the foundations of democracy.


This goes along with the global elites desire to collectivize the world's economy and centralize power over it. Think of G20. Keep in mind here why world politicians have pounded the "common good theme" and trying to put a smiling face on it all, this is basically the biggest transfer of wealth [wealth-cleanout] in world history.

The Vatican's open support of an economic regulatory system over the world's economy is serious business, it astonishes me how the "conservative Catholics" while they can see some of what is happening on the national level ignore the global ramifications of the Pope's words and those who work for him:


Archbishop Celestino Migliore, permanent observer of the Holy See to the United Nations, said Thursday before the U.N. General Assembly that the Holy See agrees that the crisis "can be attributed to a lack of a complete and effective regulatory system

Back to "CARITAS IN VERITATE" :the Pope continues with the "common good" theme within this encyclical:


This needs to be directed towards the pursuit of the common good, for which the political community in particular must also take responsibility. Therefore, it must be borne in mind that grave imbalances are produced when economic action, conceived merely as an engine for wealth creation, is detached from political action, conceived as a means for pursuing justice through redistribution.


Reread that one line...

"PURSUING JUSTICE THROUGH REDISTRIBUTION".

It continues:



39. Paul VI in Populorum Progressio called for the creation of a model of market economy capable of including within its range all peoples and not just the better off. He called for efforts to build a more human world for all, a world in which "all will be able to give and receive, without one group making progress at the expense of the other"[94]. In this way he was applying on a global scale the insights and aspirations contained in Rerum Novarum, written when, as a result of the Industrial Revolution, the idea was first proposed - somewhat ahead of its time - that the civil order, for its self-regulation, also needed intervention from the State for purposes of redistribution. Not only is this vision threatened today by the way in which markets and societies are opening up, but it is evidently insufficient to satisfy the demands of a fully humane economy. What the Church's social doctrine has always sustained, on the basis of its vision of man and society, is corroborated today by the dynamics of globalization.


Reread that line...."ALSO NEEDED INTERVENTION FROM THE STATE FOR PURPOSES OF REDISTRIBUTION"

Guess who else wanted REDISTRIBUTION?.



interesting Masonic hand sign there with his hand under the coat...


KARL MARX:

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. (redistribution of wealth)


Pay attention, the antichrist and his workers are bringing together the new world government, religion and economy!


The utopian schemes of leveling [wealth redistribution] and a community of goods, are as visionary and impractical as those which vest all property in the crown. These ideas are arbitrary, despotic, and, in our government, unconstitutional. :Samuel Adams


2 Cor 9:7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Thursday, September 16, 2010

The Vatican Wants World Government #1: Setting Up For the Beast



One thing I've learned watching Satan's servants, is many make their plans public and known, but they count on delusion via propaganda through the media and spiritual blindness in realizing very few will realize their true agendas or plans. When I came out of the Catholic church, is I realized the Vatican loved the United Nations as much as my Unitarian Universalist ministers. Christians who know Bible prophecy, realize that the Antichrist is setting up a Beast system that will have both its world government and religious system as part of its components. The world will basically follow Baalim together [Hsa 11:2] via Mystery Babylon.
Considering the truth of Bible prophecy, what is one to think when the Popes call directly for a "new world order" again and again?








This not only happened in 2005 where the Pope said this:

[source--AAP December 27, 2005]

Pope Benedict, in his first Christmas address, on Sunday urged humanity to unite against terrorism, poverty and environmental blight and called for a "new world order" to correct economic imbalances.


This is not just some recent liberal idea the Vatican got, but one it's been working on for centuries in service of the antichrist and absolutely for decades. In the 1967 Vatican II encyclical: Populorum Progressio, Pope Paul VI made his support for world government via the United Nations known as well as it's false peace edicts for mankind.

Within that document it states:

78. Such international collaboration among the nations of the world certainly calls for institutions that will promote, coordinate and direct it, until a new juridical order is firmly established and fully ratified. We give willing and wholehearted support to those public organizations that have already joined in promoting the development of nations, and We ardently hope that they will enjoy ever growing authority. As We told the United Nations General Assembly in New York: "Your vocation is to bring not just some peoples but all peoples together as brothers. . . Who can fail to see the need and importance of thus gradually coming to the establishment of a world authority capable of taking effective action on the juridical and political planes. (66)
and directly calls for a new world order:

83. Finally, We look to all men of good will, reminding them that civil progress and economic development are the only road to peace. Delegates to international organizations, public officials, gentlemen of the press, teachers and educators all of you must realize that you have your part to play in the construction of a new world order. We ask God to enlighten and strengthen you all, so that you may persuade all men to turn their attention to these grave questions and prompt nations to work toward their solution .


Here is what we are warned of in the book of Daniel:Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. So do not the let sweet sounding platitudes and words for peace fool you. There is no true peace away from Jesus Christ.

The Popes are setting up for the Beast/Antichrist system. World government and one world religion combined, and to be frank, most of the global elites are in their service. There is a reason most top leaders and politicians follow so many of Rome's agendas and you see them kneeling/bowing before the Pope or giving him gifts on the nightly news and have a "lot in common". This week, we see the Pope making his tour through Britain and Scotland, with visits with the queen, a once Protestant nation that refused Popes any entrance. Bush of course too visited the Vatican and had many meetings with the Pope:









Then there was the Pope's encyclical from last year, Caritas In Vertitate-- "Love in Truth" which contains neither. While some Catholic apologists put up smokescreens, the mainstream news basically admitted that the Pope was calling for world government.

I'll let this one speak for itself:


67. In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of the responsibility to protect[146] and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, to seek to establish the common good[147], and to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth. Furthermore, such an authority would need to be universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights[148]. Obviously it would have to have the authority to ensure compliance with its decisions from all parties, and also with the coordinated measures adopted in various international forums. Without this, despite the great progress accomplished in various sectors, international law would risk being conditioned by the balance of power among the strongest nations. The integral development of peoples and international cooperation require the establishment of a greater degree of international ordering, marked by subsidiarity, for the management of globalization[149]. They also require the construction of a social order that at last conforms to the moral order, to the interconnection between moral and social spheres, and to the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres, as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations.


Don't let the flowery language fool you contained in this document are basically calls for world socialism, redistribution of wealth, control and worse. [more on that later]. If you want to analyse what is happening in America, and why our politicians support programs that take away American jobs, and why we are losing freedoms day by day, this is happening on a world front. They of course will make these things sound as "good" as possible. Considering how power corrupts and the wickedness of this world, the Vatican basically has announced its favor for world tyranny. The "real teeth" comment above, makes that clear.


Let the Bible lead you in illustrating what all of this is about.
Rev. 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Wednesday, September 15, 2010

An Odd Calvary Chapel Position on Communion


This is a very odd teaching on a Calvary Chapel website. Now this is Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowship which is an organization that works with Calvary Chapel pastors, basically a "pastor to pastor" ministry, and is where folks go who want to become affiliated with Calvary Chapel to apply for membership.

This could be where Bob Coy may have gotten his teaching from, when he said of communion "These elements will become part of who you are". Online, I found this Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowship document that describes a belief about communion that was kind of surprising:


"3. The breaking of bread. This to us is a tangible representation of the unity that we share in Christ for we understand that the bread speaks to us of the body of Christ which was broken for us, and as we all eat the bread and it is assimilated into our bodies, we are spiritually united through Jesus
with each other; in the fact that the bread that is nourishing me and is becoming a part of me, is also nourishing you and becoming a part of you.
Thus, we are united together in Christ. He dwells in me; He dwells in you."
The Catholic teaching lest anyone forget...from a Catholic website:

"As we consume the bread and wine of the eucharist and these elements become a part of our physical body, we are
in turn consumed by the Lord of Love
and become
a part of his living body on earth"

Given many Christians are discerning the growing Catholic mysticism, Emergent false teachings and growing idolatry including the growing appeal of sacramental and idolatrous teachings concerning "communion" or what the Catholic church calls the "Eucharist" in
evangelical churches,
seeing the above is very concerning. To me, it seems a more subtle way of pushing the idea of the Catholic "Real Presence" teachings regarding the eucharist: [Catholics do literally believe the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus Christ during the Mass] Does the "bread" itself taken in communion bring one into spiritual unity with Jesus? [as the CCOF statement says] Even that is an odd conjecture, a born again Christian is already united with Jesus Christ via faith with the Holy Spirit indwelling, they do not need "bread" to make it happen. The Lord's Supper is supposed to be a memorial, the body of Christ, is born again Christians, not pieces of bread being eaten.

Lest someone think I am nit-picking, the falseness of the Catholic Eucharist, is something many born again Christians who leave the Catholic church realize with the help of the Holy Spirit from the start. Jesus warned of those who basically taught that the "bread" itself ["consecrated" or not] had power or had become 'God'. Even the subtle illusion to the digestive process helping someone become more holy [as the bread is "assimilated into our bodies" in the CCOF statement] is wrong.

One thing, the word "draught" in the Bible, is basically the 'sewer', it doesn't get much lower then that.

Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

With many of the errors, I've seen in Calvary Chapel, this odd teaching seems to match the same home to Rome agenda that some have theorized is behind, the odd consorting of Calvary Chapel top leaders with so many top ecumenists out there. I hope this is something not all of the pastors have adopted. Surely there are a few ex-Catholics in Calvary Chapel who would see right through CCOF's words. Some are subtle. Watch out for any church that starts teaching about the 'bread' in this way. They may not go all the way but its about breaking down barriers and the many avenues where people are being led to the harlot, and false mysticism.

Thursday, September 9, 2010

About the Church That Wants to Burn the Koran


There is a pastor in Florida who wants to do a public burning of the Koran, it has caused worldwide controversy with even the Vatican weighing in, politicians like Hillary Clinton and Hollywood celebrities.

Remember the new world order wants it's war of civilizations. There is nothing wrong about telling someone the truth about a false religion, I was told the truth about Catholicism, but with some of these people you ask where is their fruit of the Holy Spirit, there is none. How do they think antagonizing people, and offending them on purpose, is going to lead anyone to Jesus Christ? If anything their example, will only turn more away from the gospel and lead to more violence.

Here too I can see all of this being used, due to the resulting and expected outrage to be used to suppress freedom of religion in America. There is a reason this is hitting the world wide news since this guy is the "pastor" of a very small and unknown church. Think about that, why would this unknown be plastered across international news? It all is being used for some agenda. Don't forget the Hegelian Dialectic here. This man's outrageous and wicked actions, could lead to a suppression of freedom of speech, and those who will say that speaking negatively of any religion should be outlawed in opposition-- [Thesis, antithesis, synthesis].

I found an picture on line of this pastor [Terry Jones] in his church. I noticed the red banner with the "knights of Templar crown" behind him. It is often used as a Freemason symbol too. Now we do not know how this banner was chosen or if the person choosing it knew the meaning of these symbols, but I found it interesting nonetheless.


I decided to dig further, wanting to know what kind of church is this? It seems this is a new apostolic reformation church, with those false teachings. New Apostolic reformation is a growing false heresy out there, where the pastors and leaders are teaching that they are the "new apostles" and holding the same authority too. This definitely brings this Bible verse in mind.

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:


From the Dove Outreach Center website: [that is an interesting name too] it says:

Significant aspects of our church are: • Apostolic leadership with emphasis on the apostolic anointing, the five- fold ministry role of training and equipping the saints for the works of the ministry and faithful committed members doing the work of the ministry.
Apostolic worship which is a conscious, deliberate effort during worship to change the spiritual world, that then works its way out into the natural world and becomes visible as victory over the enemy.
DWOC Academy a place of training the next generation to be strong and stable five-fold ministers under the apostolic anointing. We believe that God is calling a new generation in this end time – a generation of believers that are yielded to His Word and His will. Our land needs strong churches that understand and fulfill God’s vision of restoration and reformation. Churches which will be planted by the DWOC Academy graduates. Individuals who are able to handle the revival which the apostolic anointing will usher in. An anointing which will bring about Godly changes to our society through the work of these churches.

The New Apostolic Reformation movement has its ties to Dominionism as well. These false actions are coming out of false theology, with political agendas included. One thing that really shows this church for what it is, is from reading the cult-like rules of the DWOC Academy mentioned above.

Terry Jones is a false preacher who needs to realize what the Christian gospel is really about and get back to the goal of winning people to Jesus Christ instead of human carnal wickedness and evil: [and this chapter needs to be read by everyone who has been fooled by the "war of civilizations" stuff]
Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


Monday, September 6, 2010

"I Can't Wait for Armageddon!":The Deceptions of Christian Zionism


I believe as Bible tells us, that Christians are to bless the Jewish people and that those who curse them [Genesis 12:3] will come under God's judgement. Jesus Christ was a Jew and the Jewish people have suffered centuries of oppression along with Christians. The main place I am coming from in this article is asking this question: Given that the powers that be have oppressed the Jewish people [and Christians] for centuries, why trust the politicians NOW when it comes to the fate of the Jewish people? Why should anyone trust the high level leaders in the new world order, powers and principalities of this world to protect the Jews after examining history of centuries of Jewish betrayal, persecution and oppression [as well as Christians?] Christian Zionism on its surface sounds good, but there are some very worrisome trends within it.

Some have confused Bible Prophecy with the machinations of "secular nations and politics" and co mingled the two into a mess. Israel as a secular nation does have the right to defend itself against Islamic Jihadism, but this does not led itself to a secular Israel is always right stance being biblical. Many do not seem to understand the real deal of what Spiritual Israel truly is and how it incorporates Jews and everyone else who comes to be born again in Jesus Christ. [Galatians 3:8-9]

One thing Ive noticed, the satanic powers of this world love to use both sides against the middle. They desire a "war of civilizations". Albert Pike, top Freemason, predicted three world wars, this has always been the plan, and Rome has had its hands in all of them. The luciferian global elites desire that the world's population be reduced and that death and destruction reign. God is our only Hope as this world grows closer to the worse events ever. WW III is to usher in the chaos for the Antichrist to take power and for the world government to take full control. It is known that the false 7 year peace plan in Israel is part of this. In other words the false religion of Islam coupled with Talmudic Judaism on the other side are both being played like a fiddle by the wicked powers that be in this world. Two sides against the middle, to make the setting perfect for the Antichrist, to bring his FALSE PEACE as the SOLUTION.[Daniel 8:25]

History shows us the endless crusades, and inquisitions [The Holocaust was basically an updated Inquisition against the Jewish people and others] with Hitler and his Nazi [knights] following satanic commands. These are now being enacted in modern form. Think about it. why has America been called into endless Middle Eastern wars, that have helped to bankrupt this nation, and who have they really served? The NWO has always desired chaos, death and destruction in the world. There is a reason many referred to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as “modern crusades”.

The following video is done by a leftist news journalist Max Blumenthal[posting this does not mean I endorse many of his views, but see the flavor of the attitudes here]






Watching this video, which visits a CUFI "Christians United For Israel" conference, you will hear such views as this..."I'm looking forward to Armageddon" I've heard that one before from extreme Christian Zionists, as if when all the bombs start going off and there are mushroom clouds in the distance[yes it is prophesied in the Bible: Rev. 9:18] it's going to be like watching a video game. Left Behind training and extreme pre-trib rapture--"you'll be out of here before any of the suffering starts." really comes together in one giant delusion.

The lady who says that Satan is trying to destroy the Jews [along with Christians] is right so why DO THEY TRUST THE POLITICIANS in stopping that?


Bible prophecy does tell us horrible things are coming [before the Blessed Hope of the return of Jesus Christ], this of course includes war, suffering, death and tribulation, the problem is you have these Christian Zionists who think just because the Bible predicts wars, means they should be cheerleaders for the destruction to come. The Christian Zionist leaders say they believe Bible Prophecy, but true believers in Bible Prophecy can discern good and evil, they do not support evil agendas nor do they take the side of those who seek to destroy; they realize their only hope and that of everyone else is in Jesus Christ.

Sadly many well-meaning Christians have been misled to support these false groups. They have the heart-felt desire to bless the Jewish people not realizing how they are being deceived by religious leaders and politicians. Overall this video is an expose of Hagee's group Christians United For Israel which is one of the headliners in Christian Zionism. Christian Zionism is predominant in many evangelical, mega churches and even groups like Calvary Chapel which hold CUFI meetings on their premises.

As you watch this video notice how many politicians are connected to these events. Lieberman is cheered for his support of Israel. Politics and religion are always a bad mix. Hagee also worked to help McCain's run for the presidency.




But that aside, Hagee, brings in false doctrine for Hagee, like the Pope and Vatican, teaches that the Jews do not need to come to Jesus Christ for salvation, in other words, that they are saved under the first covenant, given that the apostles [many Jews themselves] witnessed to Jews, this stance makes absolutely no sense. Years ago, I watched some of Hagee sermons, they were interesting in the beginning, but very shortly after I was born again, I shut off his show forever.

Read for yourself: The Houston Chronicle newspaper quoted Hagee's own shocking words...

"I'm not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith...In fact, trying to convert Jews is a waste of time. Jews already have a covenant with God and that has never been replaced by Christianity." (Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988, sec, 6, pg. 1).


Compare to that: Paul's strong and loving desire to reach Jews for Jesus Christ:


Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a
day, there came many to him into [his] lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God,
persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of
the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening.


Think people are being lied to? I sure do! But for some odd reason, Hagee's false teachings seem of no concern to some supporting evangelicals even those who do not hold the same positions.

Add to that, that Hagee, has called for war with Iran, over and over. But it gets even worse then that, Hagee has publically denied Jesus Christ as being the Messiah! Watch this video where Hagee says "Jesus Christ did not come to earth to be the Messiah". How much clearer can this man announce his repudiation of basic Christian truths?

Israel as a nation really does face many military pressures and threats from Islamic terrorists and suicide bombers, but this does not excuse Christians becoming hyper-militarist and denying Christian truths, or preaching bomb everyone instead of preaching the gospel to them. Sin is in every group, and having the attitude that America should turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot, isn't of God. Even realizing within Calvary Chapel, much of these militant positions were taken was not a good thing. Even Chuck Smith has spoken at Christian Zionist events like this one:[this particular book signing raised questions considering who he shared the platform with]

Here is the core piece, Christian Zionist leaders are overly enmeshed with the halls with power and keep crying for war. The excuse that this is going to happen- Yes, Bible prophecy says it will but what will God be thinking of those who support and defend the workers of inequity in this world, who will bring death to millions and betrayal of the Jewish people and Christians and ensure even more Muslims reject the gospel? Why wouldn't the Jews in Israel be betrayed by their politicians the same as Americans are now being betrayed? Some secular and orthodox Jews now even are picking up that something is wrong with the whole picture. The new world order wants the nuclear show-down and it will eventually have it.

There is a reason Jesus Christ told us this:

Matt 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened.


Even more creepy as these Christian Zionist groups call for Jews to move back to Israel at the same time, they remind people of the great nuclear holocaust to come to Israel. If you truly loved and cared about people would you tell them to move to the place where you know the most harm is going to come to them? The discrepancy of these people calling for Jews to move to Israel a place they admittedly say millions of Jews will die in, is alarming. Even others including outside observers and Jewish people have noted this contradiction.

Non-Christians hear this stuff, and react understandably, to the lack of love, true Christian charity and war cries. Here we see how these hirelings work to seek to destroy the testimony of the gospel. From a comment at this link:

"I've heard the broadcasts of Calvary Chapel. They look forward to and revel in the destruction of unbelievers when warlord Jesus returns to take
care of this scum. Btw, I also heard a Calvary Chapel pastor preach that 2/3 of the Jews will perish in the holocaust (his word). That's a revelation (no pun
intended) about the Jews they claim to love so much. And remember, that if America becomes a "Christian" nation, nonChristrians [sic] wil be boarding cattle cars very soon afterward."
It's scary when the God-given conscience of unbelievers alerts them to the fact something is wrong the overall picture. All of this ties into the false PreTrib Rapture too. No that belief doesn't cancel anyone's salvation, but so wonder some unbelievers say Christians are "bloodthirsty" when some of the leaders seem to not be able to wait for WWIII where millions will die. They all think they will be whisked away out of the conflagration.

Here we see some of the fruits of these false teachers and those who have married the politicians of this world. The Dominionists and a bunch of state worshipping false preachers teach an inverse of the gospel, a false jesus and a false love of the world with political answers coming first, invoking demonic doctrines, misusing Bible prophecy, deigning to build 'christ's kingdom' for themselves and with the temple rebuilders seeking to usher in the "end times" [WW III] and all that as quickly as possible. There are even Christian Zionist teachers bringing in very odd teachings such as teaching that animal sacrifices will be brought back in the Millennium kingdom [negating Hebrews 10] to add to the false doctrines and teachings already discussed.

Dominionism isn't just the hard core Reconstructionists anymore, but it is starting to encompass, all those who desire to marry church and state--[such as supporting wars for "religious agendas"] What kind of Christians want millions to die? This isn't about the gospel or love for anyone but about religion, power and politics rolled into one.

These type of statements speak for themselves:

Pastor Chuck Smith, founder of the Calvary Baptist [sic] Church, when asked whether he had any compunctions about unleashing a holy war that would lead to the possible extermination of millions of Jews and Muslims, replied, "Frankly, no, because it is all part of Biblical prophesy." (Jeffrey Steinberg, Temple Mount … ibid.)


Something is very wrong here.

Sunday, September 5, 2010

Bad Churches Produce Unbelievers


Almost doesn't cut it...

The fruits of bad churches are growing. Many Christian believers are seeing them in everyday life, even as they are witnessing to others. I have dealt with everything from a young man who was told by a Pentecostal church that his tattoos would disappear if he had "enough faith", to an older man who was told he had to be baptized to become a Christian [a false teaching in the Seventh Day Adventist church]. These things actually can make it difficult to witness to others, the churches are teaching so many falsehoods and influencing people not to become Christians, that you have to stay in constant prayer, it's making things very tough out there. There is a point where only prayer is the answer asking the Holy Spirit to help someone see the truth. Give people the gospel first: tell them to repent and trust in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation and stress at the same time how important it is to read God's Word. This will be the only thing that will allow them to get through the muck, as well as the teaching and leading of the Holy Spirit.

Bad churches produce atheists, secular deists [see article about young people below], lifelong agnostics, and help lead many into cults or into the bad church itself where spiritual poison is shoveled from the pulpit. People with no biblical foundations are being given a false version of "Christianity", either the sacramental "works" version of Catholicism, the post modern-Emergent/ liberal Protestant variant, or watered down "have it your way" mega-church seeker sensitive lowest common denominator "Christianity" that I found in Calvary Chapel.

Telling young people "you have to believe because we say so!" {Think Catholic Magisterium} isn't going to CUT IT, and is FAILING MISERABLY. How many of the young are being told, you are born into this church so you must stay this religion, or this is where Mom and Dad go, so this is where you must commit your entire life? Many places do not have the gospel, so the young person thinks being a Christian is just going to church every Sunday. In churches today, the facts of the Bible are neglected, superficiality rules, and being like the world and utter conformity are promoted.

So wonder everyone gets so confused and led into paganism or give up, fall away and run after what the world offers. If I didn't have my own foundation in Gods Word, the leading of the Holy Spirit and relationship with Jesus Christ, just watching the antics of the war mongers, politically manipulative, endless streams of false preachers and of the mean "Christians" would have been that much more difficult. I can hold to the truth knowing God took the time to warn me and all other Christians about these things happening.

In churches today, the FACTS {yes I said facts} of the Bible are totally neglected. Peoples heads filled with so much nonsense and false versions of Christianity, so wonder they get deeper and deeper into confusion. When I was a little budding atheist at age 10, and in the Catholic church, a future UU pagan, I knew things didn't add up. Anyone with half a brain connected to any cult, knows that things don't add up. Some make the decision to stay away fearing the repercussions of non-conformity while others stay inside not really believing. Others just lock those questioning thoughts away, and stay busy and distracted. Still others, may progress to a certain point, ie; realizing the Catholic church is false, but still embracing mega-evangelical seeker sensitive garbage and other falsehoods.

The "thinkers" who are born into false religions often will question that religion. That includes all the poor young people having their parents drag them to a labyrinth ceremony at an Emergent church to the Crystal Cathedral. They will see it for the dreck it is, and many will say "FORGET THIS" believing that is what "Christianity" is all about wrongly and go either into some other pagan route or hardcore secularism: ignoring God all together. This I believe is going to happen with many young people in the watered down evangelical and other mega-churches, these people have been given pablum and facing the difficulties of life which is getting harsher as the economy implodes, the lowest common denominator false "Christianity" sold to the demographic of suburban masses isn't going to measure up. When you have no job or face severe illness, memories of a rock concert isn't going to comfort you, the Holy Spirit and biblical truths will. There is no spiritual preparation for what life can bring including tribulation and hardship.

I more then anyone understand why and how people are led into disbelief. The sad thing about me is around age 9, reading "Late Great Planet Earth", and getting VERY INTERESTED in the Bible, is that was definitely squashed by outraged nuns, and others who told me fundamentalist Christian Bible Believers were "crazy". I know by the next year, I was thinking "well if the Bible isnt true, why bother with any of it?" I know that nun who grabbed my LGPE book and told me to no longer read it during free reading time at school [and no that book is far from perfect--I may do a post on Hal Lindsey later] got me even thinking that way. One thing, that book did get me to go and read the Bible even if I read it from the position of unbelief for years.

When young, I was very precocious, and one thing I noticed was how upset adults got when questions about religion were raised. Today I believe when young people ask questions they should be addressed, and if the response is anger, instead of sincere and honest responses, this is not going to be any help to that young person. Christians need to know their faith and why they believe it. Blind obedience to men, is not the domain of a strong Christian faith. God says in Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The Holy Spirit will be the Christian's teacher, and God will show things as you pray and ask. Faith will grow too, so doubt becomes a thing of the past, when you know what you believe is "real" and the "truth" and God's Word serves as that foundation. This is why you see doubt discussed so much in false churches, many of them do not really truly believe, they may feel bad about it, but they've been going through the motions for years, sometimes from childhood remaining in a mainline or other church they were born into, and their parents took them too. Many of these people are good people, well meaning, wonderful individuals, but need to have stressed to them when you witness to them, the need for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and true repentance, that being in a church does not necessarily make you a Christian.

Many of these false churches elevate the authority of men, and ignore this verse about how the Holy Spirit is to lead Christians:

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

In fact one signature of a cultic religion or false church, is one where questions are not allowed and the church leaders are given this authority over normal men that is not biblical. You see it in all the false churches, the Catholic Magisterium, the Mormon Prophets who are not to be questioned, the Moses model in the Calvary Chapel churches, the new apostolic reformation where preachers claim automatic apostleships, the shepherding movement and more. It's all about that one guy up on the stage in the pulpit and doing what he tells you. Yes there are positions for teachers in the church but something has gone very wrong there.

Remember Jesus Christ said he hated the error of the Nicolatians, who were the ones who diminished the laity under clerical rule. Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

I have found myself saying to some I have witnessed to: "See all those TV preachers and those bowing at the foot of state power, they preach against what Jesus Christ preached and then tell them what it actually SAYS. See all those false priests preening around and insisting on their glorified authority, here is what the Bible actually SAYS." A few have been shocked at the version of "Chrsitianity" they have been given as opposed to the Bible.

I praise God every day, I got to read His Word, and I had the opportunity to find out what it really says, instead of all these false churches and preachers. In my case, I almost did up in hell due to two false churches. This is heartbreaking serious business. Its happening to many other people too.

Oh and if young people are told that "it doesnt matter what you believe, all good people go to heaven" and other universalist interfaith claptrap, such as what is taught in Catholicism and most liberal Protestant churches too, that's another sure way to turn folks into budding agnostics and Christ-rejecters. They think will think "oh the Pope thinks the Dalai Lama is a great guy, one doesn't have to be a Christian, Ill just sleep in on Sunday morning and forget reading the Bible". Why should interfaithism bring any real commitment when "any" religion will do?

Expect even more young atheists, agnostics and pagans to come out of today's rotten fallen away churches. There are a lot of older ones too. All we can do is pray and try and reach who we can. This is something probably a great deal of my own personal prayer life is committed to. Weak poisoned filled skim milk, instead of meat being preached by these churches has led to these negative fruits.

Here is an article that discusses what I have above: "Christian Apologist Says Churches Are Producing Atheists".


Horvath, who has taught religion to middle school and high school students, explained that some of the recurring questions young adults struggle with but churches often fail to address include the formation and development of the Bible, the presence of evil and suffering in the world, and the question of inspiration and inerrancy.

In large part, it happens when the church leadership is completely unaware that their members and not necessarily just the young members have questions at all, explained Horvath to The Christian Post. And [they] continue merrily along thinking that to retain the youth they just need to be entertained.
[snip]
The evidence which they can see with their own eyes on TV and in the newspaper is that God is not good, said Horvath. It is only a matter of time before a young person begins to encounter pain and suffering in their own lives and has to grapple with the issue personally.

He added that these youth will be less likely to trust what the Church says as they continue to be fed easy answers which do not really explain why.

Catholicism, Buddhism and the Dalai Lama

As I have written in other entries on this blog, the Catholic church as the harlot warned of in Revelation 17 has been influencing people for a one world religion via unity in diversity. I've already examined Rome's relationship with Hinduism to an extent, now it is time to look at Catholicism and Buddhism.

Here is a quote from a few years ago: from Cardinal Nicholas Cheong Jin-suk of Seoul:

"That is why we need Buddha's teaching more and more. We believe that we can solve the problems by following Buddha's compassion and practicing love, which is the fundamental teaching of all religions," he said.



You know someone has lost the plot or never had it in the first place, when the Catholic bishops in America--USCCB, hold a conference that has as part of it's title: "Take Refuge in Buddha". So wonder Catholics and the world as a whole are being moved more and more into confusion. Remember no one is witnessed to at these groups, [Catholicism does not hold the true gospel anyhow] the endeavor is to share and learn from each other's respective religions.

Things get even worse when a man who declares himself as "divine" is invited into a Catholic cathedral and rewarded. Basically this is the invitation of a man who by scriptural test is an antichrist [1 John 2:22] into your home turf. [warning: the link is to a Trad Catholic website]


No attempts to convert and with the blasphemy of inviting a would be "god-king" right into the room: idolatry is committed and this well known religious icon who works world wide for the unity of all religions, is given honor and praise:




Of course why wouldn't the Popes and Cardinal support the Dali Lama? He supports the same thing they do, holding the belief that the religions of the world should come together ["unity in diversity"] for world "peace".

"Thus, the point is clear: humanity needs all the world's religions to suit the ways of life, diverse spiritual needs, and inherited national traditions of individual human beings.

It is from this perspective that I welcome efforts being made in various parts of the world for better understanding among religions. The need for this is particularly urgent now. If all religions make the betterment of humanity their main concern, then they can easily work together in harmony for world peace."

It all "sounds good" but truth is thrown in the trash can, and this is about bringing humanity together into a seductive lie. It also brings up this verse. Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Things are getting pretty bad out there. While Catholic nuns and monks are also building ashrams from the Hindu side, many are studying Buddhism, and Zen and there are even some out there who have mixed up a Revelation 17 Mystery Babylon blend of Zen Catholicism. Benoit Billot is just one example, of a Benedictine monk, who studied Buddhism and holds "meditative Masses" incorporating Buddhist theology. [see picture below]



One can also find many websites that mix and match the members of Mystery Babylon. Here is a website that is ran by a Zen Jesuit priest. A telling quote:

"The spirit at the zendo reflects and builds upon Kennedy's deep respect for and knowledge of Buddhism. It carries out the principles laid out in the Jesuit statement on mission and interreligious dialogue, which demands that Jesuits be not only familiar with the thought of men and women of other religious traditions, but be immersed with them in theological exchange and in a dialogue of life, action, and religious experience".
Lest anyone think the Pope stands against this sort of thing, do not delude yourselves. Pope Benedict has had the standard meetings with the Dalai Lama though they have not been photographed as much as those of his predecessor.