Monday, December 27, 2010

Falsehoods and Falling Away in the Fundamentalist Churches!



Idolatry in the Fundamentalist baptist churches? Things get weird, when fundamentalist pastors like Jack Hyles [now deceased]--who was a big mover and shaker in independent fundamentalist baptist circles, who helped to found the Hyles-Anderson college have statues made of them, and annual ceremonies to celebrate that statue. The weird militaristic characteristics speak for themselves. It seems the warnings about Nebuchadnezzar's statue in the Bible would have been remembered!

This one is going to be hard to write, but I must do it. I do tell people I am a "fundamentalist Christian" this to impart, that I believe the Bible, am for biblical separation and against the ecumenical movement, but the way things are going this may be a loaded term to use. This one may get me in hot water with some, but then I am not one of those people who says one thing to one group and doesn't apply it to ALL. Remember here, I believe there are STILL SOME good fundamentalist churches out there with truly saved preachers doing the work of God, but this is to deal with false trends coming into fundamentalist Christian churches.

I was in a good fundamentalist church, and of course it wasn't perfect as no human institution is but here I shared my positive experience in that church. That said, I am not naive about where the churches as a whole are going, falling away. Satan is going after the fundamentalist ones too, and the network of deceivers that has infused into most churches out there haven't left the fundamentalist churches alone either.

With my own eyes, I have seen bad fundamentalist preachers in the "independent fundamentalist baptist" denomination. No this isn't about speaking or oratory skills, the most humble preacher can show a love of God, but those illustrating fruits of deceit. I used to dread revival week, at my old good church because we would get visiting pastors, some were good, and we had lovely missionaries who would visit and talk about witnessing the gospel but others were who I called "the screamers". They would blast eardrums within a small church room seating 40 people, and red-faced, would literally scare me, a few times, I would sneak out early, not wanting to have my hair fly back or my eardrums explode under the barrage. One of these guys lacked such grace, that he actually insulted a church member who was not there based on a physical characteristic, leading to a dozen person walk-out. Another when asked to give their eardrums some relief refused. The messages were lacking as if loudness could make up for that lack.

Some of the sermons out there, become borderline-abusive. Where is Christian truth or love in this one? This is an example of a pastor that seems to view women just as objects meant to fulfill men: men do not look eternal 20 year olds, but he seems to expect it for the ladies:




Still here things get even worse: This one shows blasphemy against God, and following man over God.




I would walk out out on all these sermons....[sample bad sermons by a higher up the echelons independent fundamentalist preacher] Remember there are many who are like him! There are infiltrators, deceivers and others purposefully using religion as a cover for money-making, control and abuse in the churches out there.


In fact I would encounter an even worse one in real life:

After a move, I would visit a fundamentalist church, on a Wednesday night, and this very pompous arrogant white-haired man, was literally screaming at his church members: "How dare you disobey me!". Some of them looked scared and cowed like they feared a beating to come. Oddly they were all very dressed up for a Wednesday night service, suits and ties for the men and long fancy dresses for the women. As things proceeded, it was like Jim Jones on a "White Night" but fundamentalist style: his berating of church members for disobedience lasted for more then 15 minutes. One point in the sermon, he said it was a sin to disobey any authority, and I still regret not raising my hand and asking, Does that mean I sinned leaving the self proclaimed "authority" of the Catholic church? Watching the floor show for a bit longer with my jaw dropping, things got worse, he began his sermon telling us, that "Touch Not the Lord's Anointed" meant HIMSELF when really those verses deal with Old Testament prophets, who had been killed, and went into a litany [this was during the latter Bush era--2007] that it was a sin to criticize the president or the government into the worse exegesis of Romans 13, I have yet to see. At that point, frustrated with seeing so many horrible churches--hey I am not perfect, I rolled my eyes, this man saw me, assumed I was some variety of liberal, and then said, "Well if Hillary Clinton becomes president, criticizing her too will be a sin!". Thinking "government shill" and "cult leader", I got up and walked out mid-sermon never to return.

Dominionism, is sneaking into the fundamentalist churches and well has taken over many of them, if not out and out"officially" Reconstructionist, too many pay homages to the politicians, the Republican party as "God's party", ignoring many of the anti-Christian things that used to happen under Bush's and other Republican regimes, and promoting the false culture wars, I've discussed already on this blog except this time without the attached ecumenism. While the economy implodes and American freedoms get ground to dust, too many fundamentalist churches today, preach the "America as God's nation" 'City on a hill" claptrap and lies, change American history, plaster the church in flags on July 4th and continue the weird delusion pointing to the actual deist founders of America, as being "great Christians" This is very odd that given that Thomas Jefferson is lauded by the Unitarians for writing a Bible that takes all the supernatural out and one can easily find old etchings and pictures of George Washington outfitted in his Masonic apron. This is a rewriting history: myth making regarding America. That was actually quite noticeable in a lot of the Vision Forum/Quiverful history for kids.

Sword of the Lord [the newspaper for independent fundamentalist baptists] used to make me cringe years ago, with supportive articles for the political system and the so called Christian right. Downloading the free copy available on their website, I see this has not changed. In the article [this is probably an older copy] it says "Pray For America, It's an Election Year!" has the usual culture war broiler plate stuff. It shows the typical messages: "Stand against the liberals, don't forget to vote", "vote against someone" choosing the lesser evil. Well that's fine to a point but reading the Sword of the Lord for years, I never saw it warn about the Patriot Act or other things happening in America, it was all the general mainstream rhetoric of the Christian Right. Maybe it should just stick to the Bible lessons. Support the troops! [never question the wisdom of the wars in the first place or why the lives of our troops were being sacrificed for the new "crusades" in the Middle East]. Page 6's praise of Catholic Knights of Malta William Buckley is odd too though they admit to his spiritual errors. I guess the so called "stars" of the "right" are to be nodded to. Now this doesn't mean that many fundamentalists in the pews aren't being warned by God in terms of these politicians, but many of the religious leaders, they aren't warning anyone. Anyone have a preacher warning directly about the "Christian" political Right or Dominionism? If you do tell me about him.

Online, there are many who discuss abuses happening in fundamentalist churches: some have been victims themselves. The Quiverful movement as I was researching that article has seemed to produce a lot of people who as children who suffered horribly under the legalistic cult teachings of Bill Gothard. There are many websites online that have exposed fundamentalist schools--I've been watching the development of what seems to be 'christian' mind-control "bootcamps" [one of a few years ago, dragged a girl by a pickup truck for "punishment] and I still remember this being defended by the deluded online who told me the girl "deserved it". That was shocking.

Add to this reading about schools like Hepzibah House that have victims come out and tell their stories. That is just one school among many like it, kind of a Magdaline Laundries for fundamentalist Christians. These people are not to be dismissed. There are many out there using religion or the cover of "fundamentalist Christianity' for their psychopathic abuse. Sadly though many people who have been so abused, will be turned against the gospel and the gospel of Jesus Christ by those who have warped it, practicing Satanic control, and legalism.

When I read a website like this, "Stuff Fundies Like" I know those who have departed fundamentalist Christianity [or sadly who are "ex-Christians"] are right about some things. Crazy rules at fundamentalist colleges where they treat women as harshly as the Taliban does, requiring a 20 year old woman to have an escort even to go buy some ramen noodles at the local grocery store. They are right about pompous preachers sitting themselves on "thrones" Banal emphasis on "lifestyles" [extreme in the Quiverful movement], things that actually go against the Bible and other discrepancies. Sadly these exposes go hand in hand, with a denial of the Christian gospel and truth and if a Christian comes into some of these circles [I've done it before] to say "Yes you are right about those things, but the gospel is true and Jesus taught differently", their ears are long ago closed. That is the damage of those who do evil using the name of Jesus Christ.

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes, it's sickening how the "right" believe that this country is somehow "holy". This country was founded more on "Christianity" "lite", and for a reason--the true god has always been the reason of man. The founding "fathers" were steeped in this kind of thinking. What's worse is they escaped that old hag who controlled Europe with her antichristianity, but they only replaced it with their reason while still APPEARING to be "christian". Satan knew his old hag trick didn't work on everyone, so he established a "christianity" "lite" for "protestants" who hated the hag and threw her off their shoulders. AMERICA BECAME THE SOURCE OF MISSIONARIES WHO SPREAD THIS "CHRISTIANITY LITE". This lukewarmness is a perfect environment for not-so-evidently fallen away "christianity". The "founding fathers" wanted just such a creature and today we can see the utter vileness of it.

As the true Congregation of Christ WE HAVE NO CITY ON EARTH--not Rome, not DC. GET OVER IT before it's too late. Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

Anon, I agree it is sickening, they push this false idea that America is now "holy" and as a "Christian" nation during a time when it is massively becoming less so. False history to promote false "corporate salvation" and church and state marrying together. The founding father's were deists, and not born again Christians. The Catholic church: they were the original Dominionists. Thanks for your post, yes we have no city on earth. God's kingdom is not of this world!

Lisa Ruby said...

Speaking of Fundamentalist Churches falling away, I think that Jack Hyles should have known that Halloween was not for Christians. I guess not because his college had and still has Halloween celebrations. The Bible says resist the devil, not celebrate him!

Bible Believer said...

http://jackhammer.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/slouching-towards-corinth/

See comment #36...he admits them celebrating Halloween.

I hope this has since stopped but if it hasn't, that shows a serious lack of discernment. It seems even years ago at a Bible college, they would have had Halloween figured out.

Lisa, read through this too....[there was some serious accusations of abuse and cult behavior, back in the late 80s and early 90s, now no college can avoid a few bad seeds, but the stuff about Hyles, is worrisome if any of it was true]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyles%E2%80%93Anderson_College

Hopewell said...

We fled a Church we visited on moving to a new community due to it's outspoken praise for H-A College. Nice enough people, and likely many had no clue. As someone who tries to point out false teachers and spiritual abuse, I could not continue with that church. Good post.

Bible Believer said...

Most do not have a clue. The aspects of spiritual abuse concern me too. Thanks for your encouragement Hopewell.

Dan said...

Thank you for this article. I went to First Baptist Church for several years, during the transition from Jack Hyles to Jack Schaap. I didn't notice the emphasis on the man at the time, but I see what you're saying here. I very much dislike the way the churches, as you said, support political figures outright, or at least condone speaking out against them. I had a friend who attended Fairhaven Baptist Church. I'm not sure if you know of this church. They modeled themselves after Jack Hyles's church, and eventually, due to personal issues, Fairhaven cut ties with Hyles because they felt he should step down from the pulpit. My friend disliked Jack Hyles and the church, because he had been told to. Furthermore, my friend was a George Bush supporter, because the church held that stance. I tried to show him a video about Bush and his connections to 9/11 once, and he refused to believe any of it. We do not have good leaders anymore. The fact is, we do not choose our leaders. They are selected for us, and I refuse to waste time by voting. We are not a Christian nation. Why are there statues of Greek gods all over Washington DC? Why are we perpetuating the worship of false gods from thousands of years ago? Churches do not say anything about this. They are either ignorant, or they are scared. It simply has to be one or the other. Sometimes I feel that in the case of a church like First Baptist, perhaps the reason issues such as these are ignored is because the focus of the church is always on soul-winning. Perhaps the church leaders do not wish to scare off potential converts by bashing others or spreading conspiracies. This is just speculation. I'm in no position to judge here. I just wonder about these things myself, and I see others do as well.

Bible Believer said...

Welcome to my blog, Dan. I am glad you see what I mean about the churches supporting political figures and/or condoning them. As you tell in this blog I believe both of the main two parties have betrayed this country, and that includes the Republican party which during the last decade was advanced falsely as "God's party. I know there are many people who simply haven't studied these issues, or understand how politics works for corruption in this country [the more innocently ignorant who are just trying to work and survive and live day to day lives]but overall the churches and their leaders have no problem working hand in hand with the politicians nowadays. If you explore this blog, I do have entries against Dominionsm and the false cultural wars being advanced in the churches. Too many times, I sat cringing inside as even fundamentalists pastors praised the wars [actual modern Pope crusades] that have bankrupted this country overseas or wicked politicians such as Bush, who by the way the evidence for him definitely not supporting the true Christian gospel was all over the place.

http://libertytothecaptives.net/concerned_christian_woman_speaks_out_bush.html

There are many I tried to warn and talk to, but the influence of the media and more, well often that is what people are listening to. They make use of the phrase "conspiracy theory" the same as "thought crime" was used in the book "1984". I am happy you warned your friend. I do believe that God is showing people the true nature of this world and what the churches have become.

I agree with you, we do not elect the leaders anymore they are chosen. The third parties are owned as well, finding out a top Dominionist founded the Constitution party was even of interest to me recently. The occult markers are all over Washington DC. Think about why do we have buildings that all reflect the "Greco-Roman" empire, domes, pillars and all with a "goddess" on top of most? It is something to think about.

I think many people in the pews are innocently ignorant, but what about the leadership? Where is their discernment? Most of them are connected to the politicians and those who wish to marry church and state. Its about power. I do believe many in the top positions are wolves in sheep's clothing [some even luciferian deceivers] who know what they are doing. So I do not think many of them are ignorant, some may be, and some "controlled". Others may take the tactic, well let's focus on soul-winning--and hopefully people will figure things out wih God-given discernment but one wonders why there is so much silence about these issues, and Christians are relegated to hoping they ,if fortunate, meet one or two like minded people who aren't indoctrinated by Fox news or one of their many spokesmen. Don't get me wrong, there are many kind people who haven't figured this stuff out, being a Christian isn't about putting political litmus tests on people, but watching where things are going, there is a lot of wickedness being promoted via these church and state marriages. Finding out even the leader of Calvary Chapel has done speaking seminars with a general connected to Middle East torture, was kind of scary.

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/a-clockwork-orange/general-jerry-boykin-calvary-c/

I wonder too, why don't more "see" what is going on? I know God is warning some, but the masses of people blindly following this stuff, has been shocking.

I think you would find this blog entry interesting:
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/09/mustard-tree-desires-world-power.html

Bible Believer said...

I believe more and more, the Christian should avoid politics, voting for town mayor doesn't mean you are sinning, but they are carnal and getting worse. Nothing wrong with talking about or exposing what is going on, but the political battles have their own deceit waiting for people. Seek to live in peace as the Bible instructs us, and not give in to world carnality. I think you'd find this post of interest as well.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/01/politics-and-christian-deceit-of-this.html

Dan said...

Yes, people won’t believe things unless they hear about them from the media. I am by nature the type of person who sees the worst in people. I have a tendency to see the negative in a situation. This can obviously be bad, and it’s not a very Christian way, but to some extent, I believe God has used this to help me start looking past everything the world says. I’m angry that I fell for the story of how some crazy terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center. I’m angry that I once believed that man has been to the moon. For all of the lies in the media and in the history books, I wish I could have that time back and could put it to good use. I used to know someone who believed the information I was showing her regarding 9/11. She tried to share this with her dad, but his response was the typical “This can’t be true, or I would have heard it on TV.” What an amazing power the media has over us if we believe everything it has to say, and we refuse to listen to anything that contradicts its wisdom. TV shows are called programs for a reason. They program us to think the way someone has decided we should think. I don’t know how politics work, and I don’t watch the news. This might make me seem uninformed, but uninformed of what? The news isn’t what they say it is, and I’ve spent enough of my life being lied to. I went to Christian schools growing up, and they taught me about how man walked on the moon. The lies are so prevalent that they have found their way into Christian education. I hate lies presented as fact. I hate the way the absurd nonsense called evolution is taught as fact. I once had a college English teacher say that we could not write a paper on evolution versus Creationism, and she went on to say that Creationism is “religious belief” and evolution is “science.” I let her know that I was offended by that remark. I do not believe in religion. I believe in Jesus. Religions are man made. As far as evolution goes, I don’t entertain the thought of such a ridiculous fairy tale, and I don’t appreciate the fact that its preached everywhere. I was given the Guinness Book of World Records 2011 for Christmas, and I’m getting rid of it because it is full of lies about evolution. I wrote the publisher and recommended they do more research before writing the next edition, because I don’t like being lied to, whether by ignorance or on purpose. But most people will believe anything they see printed in such a book, because if it were not true, why would it be published?

Dan said...

There is much corruption going on in the world. I did not learn this in church. Learning that most everything you’re told is a lie is a depressing thing, to be sure. On the other hand, it has made God more real to me, because I see what has happened since He has been rejected. I don’t know what to say about First Baptist Church right now. I think its been very blessed, and I believe their heart is in the right place. I wish they would warn people more about what’s out there though. It’s not just sin we need to be warned about. There’s a conspiracy around us that controls a lot of things in this world, and the head of that simply must be Satan. What I’m trying to say is this: Let’s say a person goes to church every Sunday morning and night, and then at home, they turn on the news. There may not be any profanity, or nudity, things like that, but it’s all a lie, and it’s shaping the way people think whether they know it or not. There is sin, the obvious kind, that we all know about. But there is also this evil that’s working on a subliminal level that most are unaware of. Christians should be made aware of this. If we believe in Jesus Christ, then we also believe Satan to exist. He is in control of this world, so he’s doing all he can to make it a terrible place where truth is drowned out. Just doing something simple like watching Oprah is not a good idea. Oprah claims that Jesus is not the only way to Heaven. Now why should someone listen to anything else she has to say? I watch things I shouldn’t, so I don’t claim to be better than anyone else. But I’m aware of it. Many people don’t realize that things they are allowing to influence them are deceptive. I wish the church would step it up and help open people’s eyes. I have learned a lot from the Internet. Sometimes I believe God is using the Internet to spread truth in these days where everything else is a lie. Granted, there is a lot of garbage and false teachings on here, but there is a lot of good too. I have learned things that have strengthened my faith. When I was in church, I did not read my Bible outside those doors. I have recently begun reading on my own, and I have read more of it than I ever have in my life. I’m not trying to slam my church here, but I’m saying that it was because of other sources that God and His Word became so real to me that I finally decided to read it for myself. I believe a church like First Baptist tries to keep people from sin by making a sort of community for itself, and that’s not a bad thing. But when those people aren’t being taught certain things, they are missing out. Sorry for the rant. It’s been a long day.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Dan,

YEs you are right there is a lot of corruption. Actually finding out all this stuff, made God more real to me too. Think of the unsaved out there who doubt God is real or the confessing "Christians" who run to interfaith meetings wondering if other religions hold truth. Finding this stuff out, we know what reality is. There is no sitting around wondering is the Bible true, get saved, and study enough and you KNOW IT IS TRUE.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

You are right finding out this stuff, is hard, and depressing, without God, I think it would have been far too difficult in my case. I think there are saved people in churches like First Baptist, and honestly it could be even probable that some of them are talking about this who are in the pews amongst themselves, we just won't be hearing it from the pulpits. I wish there were a few pastors who would talk about this stuff openly. Some are good guys who do hint at it, at least in my good fundie church circa 2005-6 the pastor was warning of the hard times to come and corruption in high places but you are right, where does this leave the people who are being HUGELY influenced by our media, nightly news, etc, and the messages of this society. A lot of people are trying to just make it day by day, they do not even have the time to study, though one would hope they at least have their hearts and minds open to discernment sent via the Holy Spirit. I've met some that know something is wrong, but can't put their finger on it but then there are many who are unduly influenced and even positive human emotions, like standing up for morality who are steered into wicked plans by the elite, like using the 'culture wars" to advance Dominionism and false non-biblical solutions. You are right this deception is subtle and massively persuasive. I lost friends even coming out with what I have on this blog--do not regret standing up for the truth, and basically saying many in the evangelical pulpits are wolves in sheep's clothing and I think the same applies to the fundamentalist churches too, thought there are some good saved men out there as well doing work for God. Truth is being totally drowned out. It's simple to tell someone about abortion [we should keep doing so of course], just about every Christian out there will agree its an abomination, but what about some of these more subtle things going on, that are forming the every day back ground and messages of everyday life? I agree about Oprah. Her teachings have infused into the churches, by the way. Best Life now? Well Osteen didnt begin with that message, Oprah already had that one on the cover of her magazines.

continued...

Bible Believer said...

Its all recycled human potential movement stuff, and New Age. Very few question many of the prevailing messages of this society. They conform and do things without examining them.

I wish the churches would step up too, but I doubt its going to happen. A few small fundie churches with brave and saved pastors probably will be the only exception. I believe we are in the great falling away. Most of the pastors are looking to this world seeking its prestige, not wanting to lose their place, or afraid people will mock them for these messages. Even the individual Christian who warns about some of these things, well it's not an easy or always receptive world out there.

The Bible has a verse, cant remember it exactly where it talks about the truth coming out. I think the internet is like the new printing press was for the Reformation, people have been given more information then ever before in history. I've learned a lot too via study on the internet and from other valuable Christians who have studied and warned about things.

Yes keep reading your Bible for yourself. That is one thing, Christians need to do, is read their Bibles for themselves and ask God to show them what HIs Word means and what He wants them to know. I often think if only more Christians would read their Bibles [many of the good fundie churches do convey that message, read your Bible and test preachers by it] there would be far less deception in the churches. I think people are missing out when so many things are ignored or left out. Churches do need soul winning but they need more discipleship and some "meat" for the older Christians.

Bible Believer said...

Oh answering your other posting too, you are right, there are many many people who do not believe anything unless they have heard about it in the media. We are a time in history where we have this mega encompassing media, owned by the same top corporations, giving out plenty of lies for people to eat right up. Evolution is one of those top lies. I always said about evolution, that it mtached the lie of Satan in the garden "ye shall become gods" because think about it those who believe humans are evolving, believe their powers and stance will GROW.

Maybe you are just a realist, [seeing the worse in people] well the Bible tells us there are none that are good, while the world says everyone is essentially "good" and well that is simply NOT TRUE.
I probably am of the same nature, it helped me look past what the prevailing messages were. Ive always been a more questioning sort too. That is a good quality to have.

I had my what I have called "days of ignorance" on this blog, at there in the UU, for years hearing every wicked abomination on the planet, of course they went with the prevailing wisdom. So do not feel bad, there are times when people finally figure things out and God has shown them what really has happened.

The media has far more power then any time in history and the powers that be are using it to their advantage. Ive met people where Ive had discussions, have shown evidence, cites, pictures and still been told I am wrong, because their favorite media personality from Rush Limbaugh, to Michael Moore, [or sometimes with fellow Christians--celebrity TV pastors]said it wasn't so!

I think back to my wasted years learning lies galore, even the programming during college was so immense that when I think back to it, I just shake my head, it astounds me, but be thankful to God, that know you know the truth. So many will reject God and never find it out.

Dan said...

Bible Believer, this quote from you sums up what I wanted to say: “Churches do need soul winning but they need more discipleship and some "meat" for the older Christians.”
My brother was going to a church which is pastured by a Hyles Anderson graduate. My brother began studying the origins of the holidays. He compiled what he found and presented it to the pastor. The pastor agreed that holidays had pagan origins, and he planned to preach about this topic. Some people in the church found out, and they said they would leave the church if holidays were preached against. Out of fear, the pastor changed his mind.
How pathetic is that? The simple truth is, I do things that I know are sins. I know I do these things. I’m not proud of it, but I’m a sinner. But who am I to have the gall to threaten a pastor by saying I’ll leave the church because I don’t want him speaking against sin. I saw you have a blog about Christmas. I haven’t read it yet, and I don’t know that much about Christmas, but I can see its got roots in something other than the birth of Jesus. Christmas has to be the most beloved holiday, and people have special memories of it from their lives. But if there is something more to it, we need to know. For someone to not even allow themselves to hear such a thing is ridiculous. But again, as you said, I’m a realist, and I’ve seen too many times that everything seems to have a sinister agenda behind it. It didn’t take much convincing for me to agree there’s something evil about Christmas. What does Satan always do? He passes off his greatest lies by mixing truth with lies, and kindness with evil. How better to trick people into performing an occult ritual than by telling them they’re celebrating the birth of Jesus, which truthfully has been replaced with Satan Clause, the god of commercialism. Anyways, this was just an illustration of how truth was suppressed. I remember Jack Hyles saying he loved Christmas trees and had several at his house. I went to First Baptist Church the Sunday before Christmas last year, and there were decorations everywhere. I’m not calling them out. I just wonder if they know certain things or not. We’re all sinners, but do they KNOW about holidays or not? Maybe they figure if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. Some people say if you’re celebrating a holiday for the right reason, it doesn’t matter where it came from. I just think people have the right to know the truth, and then they can do with it what they feel is right. I gave a few Christmas presents last year, but I know Christmas is not what I was always told it was. I’ve heard it said the tree is representing a pyramid, and the star at the top is the all seeing eye of Lucifer, the same symbol on the back of the dollar. I don’t know for sure, but I certainly don’t look at Christmas the same way anymore. Maybe if a pastor knows the truth, he’s afraid that sharing it will scare people away thinking the church is becoming a fanatical kind of place. But still, the truth needs to be taught, even if it’s not exactly what we want to hear.

Bible Believer said...

Oh Christmas is a hard one. I know when I was convicted to leave Christmas behind it was tough. The world just doesn't see the truth about Christmas.

I wrote an article about Christmas. In real life, this is a topic, I have tried to inform folks about usually I try to take a gentle approach with it, giving them tracts, getting them to ask questions in their mind about the holiday, but it is so ingrained into this culture, that I think unless sopmeone has the leading of the Holy Spirit, even daring to question Christmas is seen so far out there, many do not even make the leap. That is a shame about that pastor. My old IFB didnt overdo Christmas, if it fell on a day besides Sunday, no church services, but many did celebrate while some were like me staying away. This is one topic, where one wonders are there any pastors out there daring to preach the truth about Christmas, I know many would fear losing members.

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/12/truth-about-christmas.html

Bible Believer said...

Hmm two of the youtube videos got taken down, from youtube. Sorry these videos are no longer available....

Anonymous said...

From what I am reading from you Fundamentalists is finding out what is wrong with everybody and then some. Your job as a Christian is to love the sinner and loath the sin. I have read your comments and all you have to say is what is wrong with the whole world, except yours. You are the reason people don't come to Christ, He is the Savior, not you. After a person comes to Christ it is the Holy Spirit's job to lead people into the truth. You are filled with a religious spirit that has turned you and groups like you into bitter, joy-less, judgemental people. Instead of cursing the darkness why not light "ÿour" candle for others to see-Jesus.

Bible Believer said...

This post comments on what is wrong with the "fundamentalist" world.

So why would you say, I do not address the fundamentalist world?

I am not using the term fundamentalist for myself that much these days, though *one* could use it, in that I believe in biblical separation, inerrant bible, bible prophecy etc but due to the connections to Dominionism and other things I disagree with, it's a loaded term.

It is always weird when someone who gets so angry at me for my viewpoints, just writes a post about how "bitter" and "joy-less" Christians are who disagree with them. I know that is the usual script. It is always odd how the "do not judge" crowd always immediately jump on personal insults and put-downs.

Automatic condemnation from the "how-dare-you!" crowd. Does that mean you support the politicians, luciferians and false preachers exposed all over this blog? Loathing sin, is wanting people to know and standing apart from what they teach and stand for. The Holy Spirit leads true Christians to speak out, not to sit in silence. Is that your answer, to remain silent in the face of evil, deception and cults? Why is that?

When one "lights the candle", it means standing against evil.

I am curious, what upset you about this post? It is one that addresses abuses within the fundamentalist world. It seems odd this particular post would have upset you. Please respond.

Jose said...

No I do not support luciferians and false preachers! I believe that loathing sin is wanting to be more like Jeus and acting out the name "Christian." That means to be like Him (Jesus). I don't see Jesus being bitter, condeming, and finger pointing. When He did point out sin, His response was "where are the ones that condem you, neither do I, go and sin no mor." That is what I am talking about. If we are going to look for all the false preachers and teaching out there, we'd be exhausted and never win sinners to the Kingdom of God. My job is not to seek the false and bad things going on around me, I have been told to go and make disciples, and He the Holy Spirit, not you, will lead us into all truth.
You can do all of your standing against evil by loving people into the kingdom. If love God, I realzie that not all the things I do are pleasing to God and no I do not take cover in the fact that "Ï am but human" I realize that I need His strength and power every moment of my life. Yet, if I was not a Christian and I was reading what you all have written here, I'd chose not to be, who wants to be bitter and have a better than thou attitude?

Bible Believer said...

If you really do not support them, you would want their evil works exposed. There are different Christians called to different things. One reason the churches have gone so bad, is because people like yourself, do the whole "how dare you" gambit. It only leaves people sitting in silence under these false preachers. Actually if you cannot discern evil from good, what kind of Christian are you? Sounds like a sleeping one. The false preachers love people like you who try and shame Christians who sound the warning cry. Sadly your numbers are legion in the churches and elsewhere, for all the witnessing you claim you do and leading people to truth, you do not seem to care one iota for truth in standing against those who want to warn people. As for your talk of "love", you ignore everything I wrote, and start in with your "be silent script", sorry not buying it. I've been to that rodeo many times. To be frank, a "Christian" who condones silence in the face of evil, is a sinning Christian or who has never been born again.
Now if you are really born again, hopefully it is a sin you will repent of, whether it comes from cowardice, not wanting to be unpopular or neglecting studies. If you are not born again, then it is the message of the world, which is be silent and bow down before the luciferians.

Sorry to be so blunt but there it is. The churches would be in far better shape, if so many weren't led falsely down that road. Even good people who are discerning are silenced by the sold out majority who under false preachers are told the same message you have written here. As for you being led into truth via the Holy Spirit, you have shown no concern for that truth whatsoever in these responses. While I believe witnessing is important and include salvation messages on this blog, I have not hidden what it's intentions are. What are your intentions?

Anonymous said...

you're deluded about the founders. many were indeed Christians. You should research more; Geo Wash was a freemason before it was infiltrated. Youtube it.

Bible Believer said...

I have researched this. I even remember Thomas Jefferson and his own Bible he wrote where he took out everything supernatural, and he was claimed by the UUs as one of their own. What do you mean Freemasonry was 'infiltrated", it is false and wicked from the beginning.

Kathy said...

I see your videos were removed.
Did you see the video of Jack Hyles' daughter? description:
"Linda Hyles Murphrey for the first time publicly reveals the secret life she was forced to live as the daughter of the former leader of an Indiana mega-church turned cult. Linda grew up watching her father, Jack Hyles, convert most of the congregation into complete obedience and loyalty to him. She tells how she left the organization and chose her own path separate from the mind control, idolatry and hypocrisy - choosing freedom. Listen to Linda warmly and courageously share her truth of growing up protecting the secrets and witnessing the blind devotion in one of America's largest mega-churches."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJsOlLqBEyo&feature=share&list=FLdsOpFJJ5OBEpdHcbEAaVMQ

Kathy said...

I see your videos were removed.
Did you see the video of Jack Hyles' daughter? description:
"Linda Hyles Murphrey for the first time publicly reveals the secret life she was forced to live as the daughter of the former leader of an Indiana mega-church turned cult. Linda grew up watching her father, Jack Hyles, convert most of the congregation into complete obedience and loyalty to him. She tells how she left the organization and chose her own path separate from the mind control, idolatry and hypocrisy - choosing freedom. Listen to Linda warmly and courageously share her truth of growing up protecting the secrets and witnessing the blind devotion in one of America's largest mega-churches."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJsOlLqBEyo&feature=share&list=FLdsOpFJJ5OBEpdHcbEAaVMQ

Kathy said...

.