Friday, November 12, 2010

Don't Lose Your Individuality! Stand Alone for God!

I wanted to share this article. It is entitled "Don't Lose Your Individuality". I agree with it, he is right about the insistence on people being "team players". We don't agree on everything but he has that one down pat. Years ago, before I was a believer, in the work place they foisted this "team player' seminar on us, that was very New Age, they had us blindfold co-workers as well as ourselves and have one party lead the blindfolded party through the woods. It was all about suppressing the individual and working as a team only. I was uncomfortable even then and got written up for refusing to be lifted up through what amounted to a rope spider web in the woods. So ridiculous, but it all had a purpose, to advance consensus and "group-thinking".

There is a drive in society for people to conform more and more and Satan desires human drones who are member of one big hive who no longer can think for themselves. Ever wonder why false religions love the symbol of the bee hive? [I'm planning a future blog entry on that]

David Stewart in the article I mention above, mentions the communist factor in this quote:

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism, and religious dogmas."

Now reading my last article, where I talk about the "common good" and the use of that term by so many in religious and political circles, remember that is what that is all about, everything chosen for the good of the group, and the suppression of the individual. "Be a good team player" and conform, its for the "Common good" is the basic message.
In my life, I've seen a change even from 20-30 years ago where was more differences in dress and ideas, then there is today. Everything has become more codified, locked down and less informal. New technologies while valuable in some ways, such as in writing this blog, have eroded natural human relationships and ways of doing things. A gargantuan centralized media has influenced people to even think the same things, and one reason the system has become so corrupt is people have become more and more indoctrinated. This of course is happening in the churches. Even among evangelicals, I've been told to join the hive. There are many who are very angry with me, and other Christians because we hold to biblical separation in other words and refuse to join with the crowd.

The Bible talks about the "one mind of the beast" in Rev. 17:13, now I don't know who is totally deceived or merely badly influenced by a horrible church, but sometimes it is very strange when you are a Christian standing alone or with one or two others on a message board for the truth, and you see people even writing the same exact sentences. I've talked about the scripts that are used already. Having several people all write "you have an axe to grind" is a little weird. It really is like talking to the same person over and over.

Going along with the article he states:

"Sadly, in these apostate modern times in which we live, few Christian believers are willing to stand alone for God. If we don't take a stand, who will? If not now, when? If not here, where? If not me, then who? It is each and every INDIVIDUAL Christians duty to live for God, contend for the faith, and stand for righteousness"

I wrote this elsewhere online that goes along the same line:

People today are scared to stand alone for anything anymore. Peer pressure is not a concept that disappears once someone leaves junior or senior high but continues in adulthood. It's like today, the more you are like others, the more you are respected. Uniqueness is no longer celebrated. In fact the more alike you are with everyone else, the more acceptable you become. I often predict innovation even on a secular level will diminish in America, as society pushes the whole "common good", "team player" lines not only in the business world but out to the churches.

The Christian Life is NOT one of popularity. Could You Stand Alone?

And to be honest, for some of us being told YOU WILL BE ALONE, or you are an AWFUL person because you stand alone, those can be messages that slam like rocks against our heads. But let me be frank,

The world really does hate the bible believing and separated Christian. Jesus gave those warnings for a reason. Not every unbeliever will hate you, there will be those out there who are teachable and who are seeking the truth vs. the seared. Some of the worse hate will actually come from so called "Christian circles". Christian message boards in many cases have become cesspools of too many think-alike types, who if you question their favorite teachers, start becoming very upset and who start using the scripts immediately. Many of those type of folks both in the churches and outside of them will tell you that one of your biggest duties is to conform, stop rocking the boat, and "grinding that axe".

Keeping those things in mind, Christians will suffer for standing on the truth, this will mean lost companions, lost friendships, and even lost family members. The gentle approach works with some and the direct with others, that must be discerned with God. However Christians in this this world will have IMMENSE hardship and disappointment. In America we are still relatively free, but even posting the basics about Roman Catholicism or other false religions, in many countries, means prison or worse.

Right now in America, we are blessed, but I have thought of those sitting alone in prison cells worldwide and during the Inquisitions, who very well, could have been totally ON THEIR OWN save for Jesus Christ, with families, friends, and others all rejecting them, telling them they are wrong, and telling them they are "MAD". How many were told as they were getting out the torches and stake, were told give in for the sake of the children? To stop making trouble? To bow before the Catholic Eucharist and go home and stop causing pain and suffering for everyone? [This is how they weeded out the "heretics" you know, those who refused to bow before the bread]

As things get worse and worse, one thing I want to extort Christians here to ask themselves, is...

COULD YOU STAND ALONE? If it was YOU, and NO ONE else SAVE FOR GOD? Even if your whole family told you that you were crazy, or if everyone in the world had turned their back on you? This is a question we should all ask ourselves. There are end time scenarios that are going to happen, such as when they demand you take the mark if the Lord does not tarry this could happen in even some of our lifetimes. Don't wait and ask yourself this when bad things start happening, ask yourself this now. Times in life may come when you have to stand on your principles even at cost, sometimes this may be a smaller matter such as refusing to take part in a community event tied to a false church or the big stuff, which Christians are facing in this world now in foreign countries where to be a Christian in some places means death.

The power to resist evil conformity and compromise will come via the Holy Spirit, and God will meet your needs. I've faced my own temptations where God helped me, facing the facts about Calvary Chapel was not easy, leaving a church never comes without some sacrifice of fellowship. I found out certain things that could not be ignored, and would have been a hypocrite to excuse ecumenism in Calvary Chapel while warning of it elsewhere. Later of course, I found out even more, that told me I never belonged there in the first place.

Many Christians coming out of the churches and standing for the truth, are finding out they are few in number, against the crowd. Some of the conforming types are even mocking them for the fewness of their number, such as in one confessing Christian telling another, "who would want to join you in your church of 3-5 people"? The crowd is praising the false teachers and leading many blind teachers of various kinds into ditches galore. Some Christians are finding themselves in a pretty isolated places standing up for God.

Here one needs that relationship with God, that surpasses all others. Where you pray daily and He comes first in your life. Where you can pray about these matters in an honest way.

I was reading this verse this morning, and thought about how this verse serves as a reminder to us.

Jhn 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

This of course talks about when Jesus will go to the Cross, but I think it reminds Christians we are never alone either, the Father is always with us, being "scattered" in this world or alone in standing up for God. Hebrews 13: 5-6 tells us God will never leave us alone or forsake us either there. Christians know that peace with God comes first, even if they must make hard stands that are very difficult in this world at times.

Christians need courage, a back bone, and to speak the truth. Love is not denying people the truth but being honest and forthright. We need to be able to make a stand and now what the price is in this world, and pray for those who do the persecuting. Many Christians while we have to face our own sin in front of God, avoiding anger, one feels a sadness for those held under the sway of false teachers. We pray: if only they could "see"! If only they could understand, what we are warning of them of. Romans 12 tells us not to conform to this world.

God wants individuals, He made your personality for a reason, you do not have to be like everyone else to be acceptable. Christians need to conform to God's Will not the world's. God calls people to "let us reason" together in book of Isaiah. The world desires conformity of the worse way, for control and to lead people down the path of perdition. Refuse it. Pray to God for faith, and for your relationship to grow with Him, in having that as a refuge against this world and its endless messages telling you to give in. I wonder at times about those popular preachers, and all the fancy ecumenical statements and organizations they sign on to and support, the peer pressures to join the crowd, has to be immense, but even there, they should have said, "NO!". Where is the strength of any conviction?

So I say Don't Lose Your Individuality too, and add to it, STAND ALONE for GOD!


Anonymous said...

Amen, BB.

I have come to learn that when those who attack individuals for speaking against false teachings begin to actually use lying as a weapon in order to discredit, despite any irrefutable proof to the contrary before their faces, that this spirit of lying proves who their true father is--the father of lies. And I'm not talking about a difference in opinion as to how something is perceived or interpreted that is ambiguous. People can be given the benefit of the doubt in such cases. I'm talking about hard core, absolutely evidential lying. If one misquotes you as having said "red", when you said "blue" and you prove them to be mistaken, and then they CONTINUE to claim you said "red" calling YOU a liar, or claiming you are "backpeddling", then that is when you know that they are truly liars. People can make mistakes, perhaps they could have read wrong, but a godly person would immediately or soon enough, repent of their injustice whence it is revealed to them. They do NOT persist in it to use it as a weapon to stifle someone who has revealed a false teaching, just because the teacher of said false teaching is someone they follow or admire. A godly person would repent even to to unbelievers if they realized they had wronged them. If they persist in lying despite being proven liars, then I find it very hard to believe that they are anointed by the Holy Spirit--not that it couldn't happen later after He convicts them and they repent--but as long as they persist in being liars, I just don't see how the Spirit can possibly be upon them.

But if there is someone who defends the wronged person, the wild pack will instantly turn upon that one. It is in this way that they stifle any true Christian discussion. They act like wolves along the side of the road lying in wait for an unsuspecting victim. They do this because they HAVE NOT LOVE FOR THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER SEEK THE APPROVAL OF MAN.

So, the bottom line is this: when you know for an absolute certainty that someone is lying, and using this lying as a weapon to discredit after they have been shown and proven to be lying--you know who their father is and that they have not the Holy Spirit, and having not the Holy Spirit, they have no credibility and certainly NO DISCERNMENT for discernment is a gift that comes ONLY WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. Thus is revealed the REASON why they defend wolves, because they are the whelps of those wolves. John the Apostle made all of this quite clear--he who hates his brother is a LIAR when he says he loves God, for LYING IS A FRUIT OF THE DEVIL SPIRIT AND NOT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Just because one disagrees with another is no reason to resort to lying, and if you do, you are not of the Spirit that is Holy. So it is no wonder that they would lie about those who disagree with them, since they are lying to both God and themselves.

Anonymous said...

I would like to add that those who do not produce the fruit of the Spirit I do not believe are baptized in the Spirit. As Paul said, if we do not have love, then we are merely a tinkling cymbal. By demonstrating such hatred, venom, intolerance for opinions which do not agree with theirs whether they prove their beliefs wrong or whether it is of a non-salvational biblical topic (even if what is said IS wrong, the person should be afforded respect and not mistreated), disrespect, scoffing, sneering, snide remarks, lying, manipulation, inability to have a conversation without resorting to such behavior, these are not people in whom the fruit of the Spirit is being produced. These are UNRULY CHILDREN--brats. This is because they DO NOT have the Holy Spirit. I cannot believe that anyone baptized with the Holy Spirit would not have the Spirit's conviction, or charity, or that he would not produce fruit. I remember what Christ said, that we would know them by their fruits. Though they MAY be regenerated, they are not yet sealed by the Holy Spirit. Many are also likely FALSE brethren that are not regenerate at all. I find that it is these such believers, whether they are regenerate or reprobate, that have a tendency to be the most intolerant people of all. I believe that this arises from a certain pride which gives them the haughty attitude that they are in a class of their own and above everyone else. These kinds of people have a tendency to be a legend in their own minds. By demonstrating this evil fruit, they show that they are not the "mature" "Christians" they haughtily pretend to be, though they believe themselves qualified to sit as judges in the gate. These kinds of people do more harm than good, leading many astray, bringing both discredit to the true Gospel, and bringing in and or encouraging destructive doctrines and teachings because THEY HAVE NO DISCERNMENT, for neither have they the Father's Spirit. This is why they cannot rest in His Word but must seek out all other knowledge, and heap up teachers. They honestly believe they are learning Scripture when they do this. But learning Scripture can only take place from the Scripture itself. As a result of their belief that their teachers are teaching Scripture, whenever someone points of the errors or the falsity, they become indignant, believing the person telling them so are being "impious", "schismatic" (not even understanding what this really means), or that they have "an ax to grind". This is a most unruly evil. Those of us who love the Word must realize this, and not be amazed that this happens, so that we keep up the Good Fight, while being careful that we do not indulge our flesh in vengeance. This in and of itself gives discredit to the Gospel and grieves the Holy Spirit. It's not easy, and we may stumble at times, but the Spirit will pick us back up, rightly chastised, and we continue to fight the Good Fight. We must remember, that these who behave in the flesh, are being servants to Satan, and do not even know it. Even a believer can at times be Satan's servant (Peter). Therefore, we must remember that our battle is not really with flesh and blood. It is not with "Suzey" or "Johnny", but with SATAN. It is these people who are in the "no man's land" of "belief" WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT which are Satan's greatest allies, for they have a FORM OF GODLINESS. The worst of unbelievers are so apparently in sin that it is not difficult to see them for what they are, and neither do many of them pretend to be otherwise. But these of the "no man's land" have an appearance of godliness which without the power thereof--the Spirit--makes them powerful weapons of mass destruction and "roadside bombs", which are hidden in plain sight, catching many offguard. Look for the fruit, and know with whom your battle is. Then move on from them, paying their vitriol no mind, knowing that your reward awaits you.

brother_Matt said...

the last commenter made a good point i always think of Job 26:4 "To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?"

i will add a quick thought in acts 5:3 "Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost" though a brother or sister many be saved yet can they be full of the spirit of satan at times 2 peter 2:19 "for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."

this is easily illustrated buy a cup of water that is half full, if it is only half full then it has room to be filled the rest of the way with what ever substance. if we are only half fulled with the holy spirit then there is room for use to be filled with another spirit. this could even be a lieing spirit such as was the case in act 5 eph 5:18 " filled with the Spirit;" 2cor 7:12 "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

one more thought in both accounts of Jesus speaking of unclean spirits returning to there former residence, their is no mention of the victim being full, but rather of him being empty
matt 12:43-45 "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it EMPTY, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
in Luke 11:24 it saids swept, garnished but never filled. also at this time there was no sealing of the believer, but their was in acts 5, so then my inference is this we must stay filled with the Spirit else we are open to be filled with the spirit of this world an thus to be governed at that time by his influence "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"

OK one more thought consider this love is an action, charity is a state of the spirit of the mind(rom 12:1-2) James 4:7-8 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." Paul said in 1st cor 2:16 "..But we have the mind of Christ." the problem is that oft times we are not in submission the the mind of Christ and thus are following God afar off THIS IS SPIRITUAL WARFARE (2 COR 10:3-6)

therefor as the last commenter stated they are not acting under the power of the holy spirit... and i add at that time yet i may be because they are only half full or not full at all, an thus are under the influence of another spirit

>>>and by the way if you are not following God as the individual that you are then YOU ARE under the influence of another spirit over then God. DO NOT be brought under bondage of a preachers spirit, you are to conformed into the image of Christ not the image of the ministry or the MAN OF GOD so to say.<<<


brother matt
psalm 138:4-5

Anonymous said...

Two very good posts. Thanks for such excellent expressions of these situations.

Anonymous said...

Oops, someone else commented before I got mine up.

Brother_Matt said...

(((quick disclaimer)))

i posted my comment before the last commenter posted his second commenter

i am not trying to be contentious just trying to cover my self less someone should take me wrong

i there fore do not endorse his statement of they must be baptized in the spirit. that is if he is referring to a second work of grace. but the bible makes it very clear that the baptismal of the spirit is being put "in Christ" so in that regard i state that the baptism of the spirit is a true doctrine (when understood and represented correctly), but i do not stand with a second work of grace as it is not biblical, an also has nothing to do with speaking in tongues or any thing of that nature.

please do not see me as contentious just trying to cover my self here

God bless
brother matt
psalm 138:4-5

Anonymous said...

Not a problem, Matt. I especially agree with your mention of the empty soul in which enter in seven spirits more evil than the first. I see in this the description of being cleansed from sin, but not filled by the Spirit--not sealed. Instead of "regenerate", I should have said "believer". I'm really sorry. I have my own testimony in this regard. After hearing the reason Christ died on the cross for the very first time, I most definitely felt His Light enter into me, and opening my heart to believe the Gospel. It was instantaneous. One moment I was an ignorant unbeliever--the next an ignorant believer. In those years--about 7 years--I was the most profligate sinner than I had ever been. I was like a gamboling calf let loose from the stall, deceived in thinking that I had appropriated that salvation for which Christ had died to provide. Not only had my sin returned into my empty heart, but it certainly brought some friends as well. In those years however, I also had an increasing hunger for His Word. As His Word began to enter into me, I became greatly convicted, realizing also just how ignorant I was. I finally was made ready to submit myself completely to the Spirit of the Father, and was baptized by the Spirit. It was then that I was made a new creature.

I suppose that many new believers, rather than indulge the flesh in such a fashion, take on instead a religious spirit. It is these people who become the problem which I described above. They too are really empty, though believers. It is during this "no man's land" that many fall away, but even those who do not fall away, because they are not yet really regenerate and have the Spirit, but are rather only of a religious spirit (which I suspect is one of those spirit friends which the sin brings back with him) that we can see such behavior as these demonstrate.

Brother, I don't believe you were at all contentious, and I appreciate your encouragement for me to put it in better words. Thanks, Bro. :)

Anon. #1

brother matt said...

amen brother..

you are a blessing, i agree that some people have a religious spirit. and i would add that this is right where satan want's them to be.

this is why i preach against a 1,2,3, repeat after my type of evangelism. i oft times have preach that if men would lead people to repentance; by exposing to them the goodness of God and the worthlessness of sinfulness, then all they will have to do is point them to the cross and admonish to take him at his word then they will get saved. sad to say but oft times men have adopted a type of evangelistic outreach that go's this way. get the person to pray and ask God to forgive them. this is not the right biblical way. one is saved when he submits to the righteousnesses of God, this is not possible with out repentance.

A.W. Tozer made a great statement in his book "in pursuit of God" wherein he states that many a people are trying to serve a God or worship a God that is nothing more then a INFERENCE to them, in stead of a REAILTY. this is why the church for the most part has slide in to a state of spiritual weakness...

inference 1828 Webster's

IN'FERENCE, n. A truth or proposition drawn from another which is admitted or supposed to be true; a conclusion. Inferences result from reasoning, as when the mind perceives such a connection between ideas, as that, if certain propositions called premises are true, the conclusions or propositions deduced from them must also be true.

Lord be with you
brother matt

Anonymous said...

Amen, Matt, you are a blessing as well. It is so nice to be able to discuss as adults! Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

Matt interesting post, I agree about the inference thing. Many have an intellectual "knowledge" of God, admitting He exsists, such as what is stated during a creed] but this does not an actually relationship or being born again. I do not subscribe to a baptizing in the spirit in the way, that some Pentecostals believe, where they teach one need this in addition to being born again. Neither I am a total cessationist as I do believe there are some healings today, and gifts of the Holy Spirit such as discernment and that deliverance does apply for today [though one has to be careful even with ministries that promise to deliver that].

To the first poster who wrote: "I have come to learn that when those who attack individuals for speaking against false teachings begin to actually use lying as a weapon in order to discredit, despite any irrefutable proof to the contrary before their faces, that this spirit of lying proves who their true father is--the father of lies. And I'm not talking about a difference in opinion as to how something is perceived or interpreted that is ambiguous."

Here is how I see that, I do disagree with people in life, there are non-believers I have interacted with who disagreed with me on many things, but they can stay polite and accept that I have different beliefs, [I may be sad upon rejection of the gospel by them] but for those who feel they must lie, or play attack the messenger instead of dealing with the issues, there definitely is a dark spirit there.I agree with you on realizing this is Satan or evil lying spirits working through them, we are not so much fighting the "person" themselves.

As you know I have seen "hard core, absolutely evidential lying." on many Christian message boards. It can grow very frustrating. I do think spirituality, brick walls are formed where they cannot even "see" or "understand, what you are talking about. There are those who are teachable vs. those who are seared and those who have been so indoctrinated by false teachers, they are being misled.

There ia difference between those who are sincerely wrong, and those who have so many contradictions where they contradict themselves to the point nothing makes sense. People can make mistakes, and that's OK, I make them too. But there is definitely something different on Christian boards, when they make it all about the person. One even can tell they aren't even thinking things out, since automatic snippets of the script are thrown out. I agree godly people would not seek to stifle or play-gang up,and would repent of these injustices. Watching group dynamics, where they jump upon the person who helps defend the Christian stand up for truth is very sad, but then here study how they have used subtle delphi techniques, consensus and group thinking in so many areas of society, business, media, marketing and religion. To stand against the group for many now is an extreme rarity. One meets very few brave souls willing to stand with the Bible Christian on Christian message boards. I have no problem discussing things with Christians, I have met CHristians who have been good to talk to who even have differed on more minor matters. Those who seek the love of man, will do anything to silence dissenters or divert their threads. I agree with the rest of your post here about the negative fruits and rest. On our side we do have to be careful not to seek vengenance or ask for blessing for our enemies, and to pray they one day see the truth.

brother matt said...

bible believer, i also agree with the fact that healings go on today, but i draw a line as to how the holy ghost go's about it, i do not believer that the Lord uses people individually to heal others in this dispensation. i have bible for this , it has to do with how i believe the bible interprets Daniel's 70th week, which leads to a distinguishing between the apostolic and church age, this also gives light to 1cor 12,13,14... but i will have to get into that latter it is a lot of line upon line cross referencing...

true story (illustration)

there was a time when my pastor's son (age 9) was diagnosed with prostate cancer. the doctor took ex-rays and all that it was confirmed . the men at the church got to gather prayed and anointed his head with oil, asking God to heal. when the time for the next doctor visit came a round they could find nothing, the doctors where very surprised check 3 times and cancelled the surgery... no doubt God heal to day, only it is different then when he was seeking to unite jew and gentile.. with signs and wonders...

>>> i have a question if you don't mind or if you have the time... how do you take on this

can a man that is a true born again Christian be possessed with a devil?...

the way i draw the line is that a Christian can be filled with the devil but do possessed.. i have pretty much stated why i believe such above... do you have any light on this according to the word, or have you already posted on it??

Labby said...

I am so eager to figure out how a "Christian" can be led by Satan.

In my studies of the Third Wave movement I am convinced that those involved take on the "fire annointing" and it seems from that point on their perception has changed. They seem to aggressively defend the actions of that crowd without being able to listen to sound Biblical doctrine. I have seen personally family members change after getting involved.

If I believe that they were Christians at that time, then how do I reconcile the fact that something in them has changed after allowing this annointing into their lives. I want to know if they are "oppressed", "possessed", and if they have lost their salvation. I really want to know because I think this movement is dangerous and is more than just people getting lost in some distraction or waste of time. These people are changed, and if they were Christians, how do we explain it and this access to their lives by another spirit?

By the way, I've read accounts of people taking on this annointing and having manifestations like laughing, shaking, being slain, etc. and they were NOT Christians. What is going on and how deeply does it affect their souls.

Sorry, a little off-subject but felt it was in line with the comment section: )

Anonymous said...

I think that is a very good question. I believe that a Christian is simply one who believes in Christ. This does not mean that they are necessarily regenerated and filled by the Holy Spirit. I believe we can see this by Christ's parable of the four different grounds. The first ground was not even the field at all. These are people who outright reject Christ and are professed unbelievers. The next two grounds are parts of the field (all of Christianity), but they are the untended areas which still have stones and weeds. These stones and weeds show a people not circumcised in heart, and I believe a person not circumcised in heart is a believer who is not regenerated. There certainly are believers of Christ who are not regenerated. We can have whole denominations who certainly believe in Christ but are not regenerated. Then there is the ground which the Husbandman has indeed prepared, and such a ground shall receive the Seed to FRUITION. This last group are the regenerated ones who are baptized by the Holy Spirit. NONE can bear fruit to fruition unless they are baptized by the Spirit, because it is the Spirit in them that bears the fruit. This particular group cannot fall away because they are sealed by the Spirit. The second and third group are still in question. It is these that fall away, and can certainly be possessed by Satan.

Anonymous said...

What we should understand by this, is that there are many who have a form of godliness but have not the power thereof--and this power is the Holy Spirit which is the One who enables us to bear fruit fully. Therefore, when we see a professed Christian behave as a DEVIL on a continuous basis, then you can be sure that the Holy Spirit is not present. Can a Spirit filled individual have a moment of weakness? Surely, he can. But such an individual cannot continue in wickedness because the Holy Spirit shall convict and chastise him, and he shall surely repent. Peter was a spirit filled and baptized man, yet he did a hateful thing in separating from the uncircumcised brethren. He certainly repented, we have his two letters to prove this. An individual who continues in such hatred cannot be one who is baptized in the Spirit. Therefore, as Christ said, YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. Such who continue in hateful behavior have DEVILS. It is the DEVILS in them that hate Christ and anyone who belongs to him, and especially anyone who exposes the Devil's tricks calculated to lead unwary people astray. REBUKING FALSE DOCTRINES, REVEALS THESE DEVILS, as surely as if one were to poke a hive of bees. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

And that is what Paul did. He rebuked the Devils. He rebuked Peter, but in rebuking Peter, Paul was really rebuking the concision which denied the Gospel of Grace. Rebuke will result in repentance for those who are Spirit filled, as Peter. But it will only stir up the Devils. All this resulted in Paul's being persecuted in city after city as he preached the Gospel. What we need to understand is that Paul wasn't just battling unbelieving Jews, but BELIEVING JEWS ALSO, who insisted that a man be circumcised in order to be among them. It is these DEVILS that denied the Gospel. One of Paul's greatest opponents was a believing Jew named Alexander who was a coppersmith. He is mentioned as being in the congregation in Ephesus, and is one of whom Paul said he "delivered unto Satan". This man was released TO SATAN for his heretical other "gospel". He proved himself a REPROBATE. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

We would do well to take heed to these Words:

1I will sing of mercy and judgment: unto thee, O LORD, will I sing.

2I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

3I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

4A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.

******5Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.*******

6Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

*******7He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.********

8I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.

Psalm 101, Anon. #1

brother matt said...

part 1
labby said
"If I believe that they were Christians at that time, then how do I reconcile the fact that something in them has changed after allowing this annointing into their lives. I want to know if they are "oppressed", "possessed", and if they have lost their salvation. I really want to know because I think this movement is dangerous and is more than just people getting lost in some distraction or waste of time. These people are changed, and if they were Christians, how do we explain it and this access to their lives by another spirit?"

i'm going to spend sometime here and hopefully help answer some of your concern. (it is a little odd that I've been here so often, in that i'm very busy in the ministry and don't usually spend much time on message boards, but i believe the Lord has put it on my heart to hang around here for awhile)

i would like to address "if they lost there salvation" the bible teaches (not what i believe, but what the bible teaches) that we can have eternal life, not temporary life. this is based on the merit of Jesus Christ, plus nothing minus nothing. the conditions for salvation are repentance and faith ACTS 20:21

i will explain somewhat in dept faith and repentance, then will i come back to eternal security...

FAITH HEB 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. HEB 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that HE IS...
A logic chain From the WORD OF GOD
the king James bible

I. Creator account authenticated by God, exo 3:1-15
• giving Moses his name I AM THAT I AM
• I am declaring that he is God and there is none else, no beginning no end, the Alpha and the omega the beginning and the end I AM THAT I AM
• Became bases for Israel believing Moses to take them out of Egypt

II. Once out of Egypt Israel authenticated God’s name exo 3:19-22, exo 14:30-31, exo 15:1-22, exo 29:46,
• Shewed him self God by exerting his power to bring his word to pass

III. By God’s name authenticated the law can be established exo 24:12-18

IV. The prophets based there prophecies on the law of God luke 24:25-27, 2 peter 1:19-21, duet 18:15-22

V. Fulfilled prophecy authenticates the law is 42:9

VI. Jesus resurrection is based on the law and the prophets it fulfilled the law & established N.T. faith rom 1:2-6,

1st John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ…
this is why Ro 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

note: it is possibly to have faith that God is with out having actually repented... let be explain

REPENTANCE acts 20:21 repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

the first time repentance shows up in the bible is GEN 6:6-7 "And IT REPENTED THE LORD that he had made man on the earth, and IT GRIEVED HIM AT HIS VERY HEART. And the LORD said, (tis is the fruit of repentance)I WILL (repentance move the heart to perform an action, therefore it is a change of heart) destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

we are commanded to repent ACTS 17:30-31
it is God's will that we repent 2 peter 3:9

I'm going to show now how repentance is necessary in order to submit to God's righteousness, and how God's righteousness imputed to the believer is the is the basis of justification. (rom5:18-21)rom 3:26

Brother_Matt said...

part 2

first lets look at ROMANS chapter 10 and i will show you repentance there

ROM 10:2-4 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

ok so we see (context isreal vs. 1) that they had not submitted them selves to the righteousness of God, which is Christ when he fulfilled all righteousness, when he drank the cup in the garden and laid down his life and the Lamb of God our perfect sacrifice (study the book of Hebrews for more in dept) "God shall provide HIM SELF a lamb" ROM 1:1-5 ….the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And DECLARED TO BE THE SON OF GOD WITH POWER, ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS, BY THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD: By whom we have received grace and apostleship (this was Paul speaking you could add priesthood of the believer for your self or maybe minister of reconciliation), for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:"

point is this authenticated his word and established his name, which became the bases of faith and made righteousnesses possible by the bestowing of grace through faith... eph 2:8-9"and that not of your selves"

stay with me here i'm going to make a conclusion

Brother_Matt said...

verses on God's righteousness phil 3:9, 2 cor 5:21,rom 5:18-21, rom 3:26 ect. ect...
part 3

look at rom 10:9-10 (this is where everyone go"s with the romans road right?)Ro 10:9
That if thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

do we understand those 2 words confess, believe?


if you run the cross ref. i gave you you will see that it is God's righteousness that is in reference. in order for God to bestow his saving grace on use(which is the imputation of God's righteousness by the merit of Jesus Christ, able to be received by faith once an man repentance toward God) one must submit to God's righteousness

one question is at hand repent of what

1. all self righteousness ISAIAH 64:6
2. not only as the cle-sha term your sins, but of that fact that your are a sinner and that a holy God suffered for the sins your are. and that there is no righteousness in your self or religion.


this is often mis understood and misrepresented illustration; if you where guilty of a crime and you took owner ship of that crime by turning your self in you have now confessed to it you have took owner ship of it..[not confessing sins]

my repenting in your heart, and taking ownership of the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. you are believing in your heart unto righteousness and confessing the Lord Jesus...

now then one more illustration: (two men guilty of murder on there way to the death penalty. one doesn't care about any thing but the fact he got caught, but hears that if he asked for forgiveness he will be pardoned, and so he dose... other man saids "i can't believe what I've done my sins murdered that Innocent and just man, i don't deserve to be set free but if he will even here my words at all let be just get a chance to say i'm sorry before i go to the death penalty...

one repented one did not. repentance reaches the heart and performs a reaction the the thing that repented them. you can not repent until you have be repented in your heart... therefor with the heart man Beleiveth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is maid unto salvation... DO YOU SEE IT

so repenting of what whatever pride or doctrine is keeping you from submitting to God's righteousness and believing in thine heart in the finished work of Jesus Christ and that his atonement is all you need...

Brother_Matt said...

part 4

so why did i type all that. because i believe you want to help some people with this information... and i will say this such people may have never got saved in the first place, but if they did they can not lose their salvation be cause it is not up to them to keep it

look here 1Pe 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

it is his power that keeps your salvation, and his power is not subject to man's infirmity...
if you are in Christ you can not be taken out of him. he has not redeemed our flesh but our soul is already seated in heavenly places in Christ EPH 2:6 (present tense) we are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone EPH 5:30 nothing can sever us from him ROM 8:33-39

that should be enough to establish eternal security, any of the other verses that people use to prove other wise can be easily refuted buy rightly dividing and keeping to the context.

once saved always saved [if actually saved.]

the problem is that many a times these kind of people have only heard the (so called) gospel like this "give your life to Jesus" or "give your heart to Jesus" or "invite him into your life"

we don't give our life to Jesus to get saved we do it because we love him and because he saved us.. many a people look at God in a contemoary way and as a an influence that will enhance their life... tis is closer to satanism then it is to christanity...

many a time we see a man make a profession of faith and we think we see a change in them..

let me give you a thought... when someone who is attending the new age school system has no friends they fill out of place.. they don't know where to sit at lunch they don't have any friends on the play ground... but when they make friends they fill more at place, and you can tell if you study them that they have a change about their behavior or the spirit about them...same thing with us oft time we see a person that has come around Christians but never been born again and we think they have believed, but in their heart they have not submitted to the righteousness of God and therefore have not BELIEVED ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE.

i'm going to end for now if their is any further questions i will hang around on this post for awhile...

this may sound strange but it is bible and is more in-dept then we accustomed too... yet is it not the basic things that we should have down... and have i not just began to scratch the suffice

i hope this will be a blessing

brother matt
psalm 138:4-5

Anonymous said...

Excellent, Matt. Amen! Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

I just visited your blog, Matt. Excellent message there as well! Anon. #1

Brother_Matt said...

Basic salvation tactics

I. Realization of reality

1. Who you really are

a) An alright fellow in the eye’s of the world Luke 16:15
b) A sinner in the eye’s of God rom 3:23, ecc 7:20, James 2:10

2. Who God really is Isaiah 47:10, Heb 11:6

The God of the bible,
The creator, the judge of all, the almighty
a) The God of love that would never cast a man, that claims to believe in to hell, dose not exist, but in the minds of those that refuse to face reality
b) The God that wants to help that person realize there true self is Satan trying to manifest himself in such a deceived individual
c) The God that wants to help enhance there life, further there agenda is the god of there own belly, such would be pleased to have a relationship with God so long as he will submit himself to them and bless them according to there will. Phi 3:18-19

II. Renunciation of religion

1. Self righteousness Isaiah 64:6, phi 3:9, rom 10:3

a) Attempting to reach God by religious merits

2. God’s righteousness phi 3:9, 2 cor 5:21, rom 3:21-26

a) Making reconciliation possible by the cross col 2:14
III. Reaction of repentance

1. establish what repentance is

a) a change of heart Gen 6:5-7
b) repentance is not asking for forgiveness 2 cor 7:9-11

2. it is required for salvation acts 20:21

a) what is being repented of must first repent the one that is repenting of it 2 cor 7:8-11, gen 6:5-7
b) the fact that you are a sinner must be repented of
luke 18:13

IV. Response to the cross rom 1:15-16, 1 cor 1:17-18

Once this is established, and they actually understand what salvation is preach the cross,

“for it is the power of God unto salvation”

1. Preach the cross , and apply it personally

a) a sinner must realize he died for them
b) cause to understand that the sins they love are the same sins that murdered Jesus Christ
c) their wicked heart that justifies there sin is the same heart of those that cried CRUSIFY HIM !

2. Persuade to take God at his word rom 10:9-10,13

V. Result in reconciliation

Brother_Matt said...

lol i guess we sure got off topic didn't we

well praise the Lord, i guess what ever our our personality reflects, don't let it be that of the worldly deceived individual who names the name of Christ. lol

well it was worth a try any ways lol

p.s. i posted my basic witnessing tactics up there to be a blessing to others hopefully

Bible Believer said...

Thanks Matt for your posts. Is that your church you provided in the link? It looks like good place. I like that they say on their statement of beliefs:

" We furthermore stand AGAINST the ecumenical movement."

Glad to hear that. :) Also I was in a good independent baptist church, for a time, so glad they hold to that as well.

As for this thread,

I wanted to comment on this further..

"If I believe that they were Christians at that time, then how do I reconcile the fact that something in them has changed after allowing this annointing into their lives."

Here is the deal, there is a lot of false conversions out there, in the Bible we are warned time and time again about those who will fall away. Matt points to this too saying

"same thing with us oft time we see a person that has come around Christians but never been born again and we think they have believed, but in their heart they have not submitted to the righteousness of God and therefore have not BELIEVED ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE."

I believe this happens a lot. if they are not truly converted and born again via biblical precepts, and merely think they are a Christian, why wouldn't they fall away then? I believe our modern mega-churches especially are full of these "thin" non-root, false conversions.

Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

I talk about false conversions to an extent in a blog entry on Billy Graham and Millions of Deceived from acouple months ago. There are many who say the name "jesus" who never truly have been born again or follow another "christ".

This is why we are told to 'examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith' by the apostles.

Brother_Matt said...

Yes this is my church I am the asst. Pastor there

Pray for use we have only started this church about 4 mounths ago, we are missionaries to the inner citieas of the USA and ave further plans for our works in las vegas

Bible Believer said...

Thanks, I am glad to hear that, there definitely is need for missionaries to the inner city, I'll pray for your church, God bless you, Brother Matt.

Labby said...

I hear your explanations about the soils and it makes sense to me based on what I've read.

There seems to be something more to me, though, but I can't totally comprehend it yet. My family members and one other person are who I've known and have seen the change first-hand, and to use as an example, and I guess I have to name a name to make a point... Melody Green.

Her and Keith were just getting into the dominionism teaching, I believe, before Keith's death with their affiliation with Loren Cunningham and such. I know Melody has been involved with the Vineyard churches and I don't personally know how she feels about the whole prophecy movement, but her long standing affiliation with them tells me something. When they were getting into the dominion thinking and then we all know about the goings on at Vineyard with Kansas City prophets and such, how do I explain how a person who seemed to be a Christian from what I could ascertain could embrace this type of teaching?

This is what I just don't get. How can sincere people like Keith and Melody get involved with this and not see the scriptural contrast? If people like Keith and Melody were of no roots or had some roots, but got choked out like the two types of seed, then that is really scary to me - or, is there some type of oppression going on even if they are in fact Christian? I'm leaning more towards the Christian who is weak and is growing weaker while being choked out and has allowed an opening for Satan to work in their lives while not even knowing it happened. Is that even possible if one is born again?

Maybe I'm completely off-base, but that's what I'm thinking. If I'm really wrong, please tell me.

Anonymous said...

Well, Labby, one should remember Christ's words, that if possible even the Elect would be deceived. How does this occur? In a word: LEAVEN. People just can't seem to keep the leaven away from Scripture. They collect many teachers from which they learn. This is not the proper way to learn and grow in Christ. The way to do so is by sticking to the Scripture, and allowing the Holy Spirit to be the Teacher. The itchy ears is the cause of so much grief. If people would just go on a year's fast in nothing but their Word, and reading it diligently and in good quantity, when the year is over, and they take another look around, they will notice a marked difference between that Teacher and those teachers. This happened to me. I remember the Spirit commanding me to stop watching those guys on the TV. It was about a year and a half later that I decided that I would check in to see what they were up to. I really have to tell you, I may as well have been listening to a Chinese man speaking. What the man was saying was so foreign to me that I felt sick to my stomach that I had even listened to him before. It's all about the leaven, Labby. I know it sounds simplistic, but the Word has come down from Heaven and is not of man. Men teach what is of man. Yes, there are true preachers of God, but they are few and far between. His Word is the safe foraging ground, the green Pastures through which runs the River of Life. Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

Hi Labby,

To me some confessing Christian who is doing weird "earth" blessings, has lost the plot and is showing no discernment whatosever.

I don't know much about Melody Green, I went to go look up their website. The infinity symbol is not a good symbol. [guess that is supposed to be an hour glass]

It seems her and her now deceased husband were rooted in the early Jesus Movement which I have talked about on this blog with deep concerns pertaining to it.

So is Melody Green caught up in the NAR stuff too?

I am of the mind, that for people to adopt these false beliefs, and heresies, that while there may be some saved among them who are victims of bad discipleship, new Christians, who the Holy Spirit will show what is going on, there is the problem too, of false conversions, those who were never really born again. There are warnings in the Bible about those who will fall away. [you mention the parable where they are not deeply rooted] What I think seperates the two categories, from saved and under bad influence, a baby Christian etc... and those who are of a false conversion, is are they teachable or not, are they convicted to examine themselves if they are in the faith? I know none of us are perfect but watching some of these folks embrace the craziest teachings, Ive wondered about this same question Labby. How could they forsake God's Word and truth for THAT?

I agree with the other poster about LEAVEN, they go running after these teachers, hanging on their every word rather then depending on scripture for truth. Sometimes I have read some of these nutty apostate teachings, like the Barbara Yoder entry, and it seems to me to be decieved by her, would take immense biblical ignorance, of course many false teachers know how to twist Bible verses, this is where discernment comes in, and you wonder what has happened to people. Many are "nice" folks, but you wonder where the leading of the Holy Spirit is?

They do collect teachers as Anon mentions, on one message board, they kept hounding me, who are your teachers you do follow then? There are folks I read, one can go all over this blog and see one's I mention or links I use, but this weird seeking after gurus and "teachers" above the teaching of the Holy Spirit and the following of God's Word is taking many folks into deception. When I was newly saved, I was convicted to read the Bible, and I too was told by the Teacher that counts, to get away from all those phonies on TV. When I read the false teachers, I am not putting myself out there as some great biblical scholar, I am not, but there is a running commentary in my head, BUT The BIBLE SAYS THIS and YOU [the false teacher] are saying the exact OPPOSITE!

Anon is correct that when they seek out with itching ears, everything but scripture and the truth, this is where they end up. When I left the Catholic church, it was all about being convicted and the truth of God's Word, knowing their teachings did not stand up to it. Same with all the "evangelical" false preachers. When their word contradict scripture, I am OUT of THERE!

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

One thing to remember, today, people have been indoctrinated to follow the group. They look for safety in numbers. They look at folks like us, and think you are a church of 3-5 as I mentioned in this blog entry, they seek their comfort in being "one of the crowd" instead of following the leading of God no matter where it may take them.

Bible Believer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bible Believer said...

Labby, pertaining to this issue, I want to show you this discussion too. This was someone I met on other board, who talked about this issue of so many being deceived. I copied their words from there. Can send you the link if you want to see whole discussion.

"Secondly, the other hugely erroneous notion which seems to prevail with CC (and the rest of mainstream Evangelicalism) and which will play a critical role in the apostasy this utterly wrenched, warped approach to "once-saved-always-saved". The average participant in mainstream Evangelical church culture has a mindset in which he/she simply presumes to have absolute and finalized assurance of their salvation.

All the Scriptures which indicate that "assurance of salvation" absolutism is a dangerous, erroneous presumption...all those passages have been brushed aside and left in obscurity:

"Work out your salvation with fear and tembling"..."Examine yourself whether you are of the faith"..."endeavor with all eagerness to make your calling and election sure"...on and on and on.

The reason this unbiblical "absolute presumption of salvation" becomes so critically dangerous, particularly in the end times because of how these satanic "false prophet" Evanglical leaders will be seducing people into accepting the "mark of the beast" in return for safe haven. Here is where the "OSAS" false doctrine springs into action-- The desperate, panic-stricken individual rationalizes to himself:

"Look...I need food for my family. I don't want to have my family torn apart and thrown into dungeons. Many prominent church leaders, including some well-known CC pastors, are telling us it's OK to cooperate...that this RFID chip insertion they're asking us to receive, isn't really the 'mark of the beast'. Hey I'm a "Christian" after all--what's the worst that could happen?"


I have seen too many who have prayed their sinner's prayer or declared themselves to be "born again" and were shown not to be truly saved. Shallow roots, falling away, no leading by the Holy Spirit.

I am not pointing to Melody Green, do not know her state or very much about her, but with many of wolves out there, I believe they know what they are doing too. So there are basically these categories of people, saved but badly influenced--the baby Christians, the ignorant[don't use that word insulting just to mean they do not know], in errors, the Holy Spirit with time, I believe will deal with, the falsely converted who think they are Christians--see Billy Graham article: Millions of Deceived on this blog, and the knowing deceivers who know exactly what they are doing within the church.