Saturday, November 20, 2010

Azusa Street, Pentecostalism and Calvary Chapel




One thing I should express here, I am not what they call a "cessationist" and do believe there are gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation now. Discernment definitely is listed as one of them, healings do happen today [the real stuff, not what the phony TV preachers parade before us] and more. Deliverance, is something Christians will need more and more as the growing wickedness of the last days grows upon us. I believe tongues were real languages for the preaching of the gospel--interpretation in the church deemed a necessity and see their use today as being rare, but am not closed to the possibilities of this gift perhaps being granted elsewhere in the world. Read this verse, think about why so many places [illustrating different languages] are mentioned.

Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?


Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,


Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,


Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


I do believe there are some truly saved Christians in Pentecostal churches, I have met many and they do have a love for Jesus Christ, even if I am concerned about errors in their churches. There are folks being granted true gifts out there, of discernment and more.

That said though, I see most of the present day Charismatic movement and Pentecostal movement as counterfeit containing falsehood, compromised and fallen away. Most Charismatic and Pente. churches are fully ecumenical, they see the fundamentalist as too rigid especially when it comes to biblical separation. There are links to Roman Catholicism in the Charismatic movement especially, [this will need it's own article]. The majority of TBN preachers come from different flavors of the Pentecostal world such as Word of Faith teachings. There have been some movements already discussed on this blog linked to both, such as the New Apostolic Reformation and the Crowders. Much error, rejection of God's Word and departure from truth exsist in these circles. Looking back at its roots as this blog entry will do, will show you some of those deep concerns.

There is a lot that is suspect about the modern Charismatic and Pentecostal movement, most of us can go easily read on a wide variety of websites, about the false teachers rooted in these movements, the false signs and wonders ranging from gold dust to the laughter of Toronto Blessing and much more. Absolute bedlam and insanity burst out in some of these churches. [Sadly such in the case of that link it leads nonbelievers to reject what they think is Christianity and serves as a negative witness] Some wrongly believe this 'holy laughter' which I found very toxic and disturbing is of God. The deceptions are extreme and obvious. [warning some of these links have worldly music].





One concept I always have found abominable in Pentecostal circles, is the idea of being "slain in the spirit". There is nothing biblical about this. Why would the Holy Spirit basically have people feigning death? This is more about control too. Falling backwards in the Bible is not a good thing!

Jer 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels [and] in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.




One can tell in extreme Pentecostalism there is the use of auto-suggestion, mind control and use of crowd dynamics to influence behavior. When Benny Hinn 'knocks' people to the floor merely using his white jacket or with a wave of the hand, this is crowd psychology at work.

But it's not all phoniness and manipulation, there are dark spirits being invited into the church via some of these activities. Online one will see even those seeking to expose that some of the actions of these extreme churches match the false things in other religions such as Hindus seeking after Kundalini, and how these manifestations match, which include everything from involuntary body movements to extreme emotional outbursts. There is out and out occult happenings in these churches as they seek false experiences and are led by a mixture of false spirits and charlatanry.

Having visited some Pentecostal churches, [three I am thinking of] no interpretation was ever done as called for in the Bible, when I heard tongues in these churches:

1Cr 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.

I heard none of the rythym or regulated patterns of an actual language, it sounded like babbling. Now many of these people I believe meant well, they were not trying to deceive, but there is some suggestion telling people to open up their minds, and allow whatever to come in and people wanting to fit in or feel the "spirit" probably fell into the habit of uttering some nonsense syllables, or even doing so in hopes that the Spirit would fall upon them. In two of these churches I would leave even mid-service, feeling uncomfortable, believing them too be too modern and compromised: one pastor gave us a sermon praising Christmas talking more about Santa Claus then Jesus, while another one blasted us with heavy and loud rock music, but still remained ignorant of some of the troubling factors related to Pentecostalism. To be honest I found the loudness and activities in these churches alarming. There are several Bible verses that call Christians to be sober which means serious minded.


1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

I have nothing against anyone crying out in joy to the Lord or showing emotion in worship and some of us are more quiet in temperament, but when a church resembles a night club or everyone is yelling to be heard above another, that is a problem.

Now with Calvary Chapel, my particular local never had any Pentecostal tongues or anything of that nature, they also remained pretty sober-minded in service. However as a whole I would later investigate Calvary Chapel and discover its Pentecostal roots. Overall I never signed on to Pentecostalism, while I didn't agree with those who totally rejected the gifts of the Holy Spirit I still remember being bothered by Pentecostals I met elsewhere who would tell me to "empty my mind" and allow the "Holy Spirit" to come in by doing so, I said to this particular fellow: "When I was in the UU, I was instructed to do the same thing in new age meditation and I know on the spiritual level that is opening yourself to all sorts of bad influences and spirits." They didn't agree and told me I had been badly influenced by my non believing past. One thing false emotional experiences that are not centered in truth mislead millions. When people are led to reject all logic and reason, false religion can have a heyday. Never trust any religion or group that tells you to suspend your mind or to shut your thoughts off. God did not make brains to have them become spiritual pudding.

Pentecostalism's earliest roots, where many denominations sprouted from was the 1906 Azusa Street revival in Los Angeles. Here they focused on what they believe were many gifts of the Holy Spirit, and many denominations came out of Azusa street from today's Assembly of God churches, other Pente. churches, and many many more.

Calvary Chapel is kind of Pentecostalism lite: as described here on a Calvary Church website, this is repeated elsewhere too.


Over the years, however, fundamentalism, while it clung to the integrity of God's Word, tended to become rigid, legalistic, and unaccepting of spiritual gifts. Similarly, Pentecostalism became enthusiastic and emotional at the expense of the teaching of God's Word.

Calvary Chapel is the balance between the two. At Calvary Chapel we believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Bible, and we encourage their exercise, but always decently and in order, and with the primary emphasis on the Word of God which we look to as our primary rule of faith.1



However reading this long ago, I really had no choice in departing Calvary Chapel, because as I studied more and more of the early history of today's Pentecostalism, there was much that disturbed me. Do not forget that Azusa was where even churches like Foursquare [which Kathyrn Khulman was a member of, and many others [even beyond the ones mentioned above] branched off from.


However reading this, there is much to be concerned about the early history of Pentecostalism and how it has impacted different churches that sprung off from the movement including Calvary Chapel. Do not forget Kathyrn Khulman was a Charismatic and Foursquare is known as a Charismatic church. For years I knew little about the early origins of modern Pentecostalism, but started researching just some time ago, some of what I would find out would be shocking.

William Seymour is the guy that started off the Azusa street revival. Be sure not to miss the connections he had to Charles Fox Parham[read this link too], whose bible college he attended. In the book Fire From Heaven, written by Harvey Cox, who is a liberal Protestant, he supports Pentecostalism so has no motive to include negative things, many things of a disconcerting spiritual nature are discussed.

Speaking about W. Seymour:

From book Fire From Heaven, page 53


"Some note that he had a "vaguely unsettling effect on the people he met and a mysterious manner, that suggested either demonic or divine power. He was also blind in one eye, the result of a youthful bout with smallpox. A white woman named Alma White who met Seymour before he came to California wrote that after she heard him pray, "I felt that serpents and other slimy creatures were creeping around me. After he had left the room, a number of students said they felt he was demon possessed...in my evangelistic and missionary tours, I had met all kinds of religious fakirs and tramps, but I felt he excelled them all"


from another part of the book, this isn't Azusa street but a church that sprung from it: page 68

"Considering the following in October 1907 at Simpsons Bible Tabernacle in New York City, Harold Moss saw the woman who was to become his wife, float five or six feet in the air. We have it from his direct testimony. It was during one of the hundreds of revivals that broke out all over the country following the eruption at Azusa Street. [snip] People prayed all night, spoke in unknown tongues, leaped in the air, shouted, and fell to the floor in trances which the Pentecostals called being 'being slain in the Lord'. Levitations were rare, but there is this remarkable diary entry about his future spouse written by Moss himself:


People were slain everywhere under the mighty power of God, including the ministers on the platform. The case of one young lady, Miss Grace Hammore {who since become my wife} was quite remarkable. She was caught away in the Spirit and rendered wholly oblivious to anything natural. A sweet song of holy song came forth in notes like that of a nightingale and filled the whole building. The power of God took hold of the physical and she was raised from the floor three distinct times. She afterwards stated she had seen a vision of a golden ladder and had started to climb it.
One finds such stories time and time again in Hindu folk mythology and Catholic folk legends as well
."

These are just two examples of different quotes and warnings, about what happened back then. Deeply concerning stuff, and considering where some of the modern Pentecostalism has gone {Ive read about tales of gold falling from the ceiling, and other experiences in different venues}, not good at all.

Now saying this some will say, well Calvary Chapel's balance is good, but even there does a good fruit ever come from a rotten tree? By the way, I met many in Calvary Chapel, who weren't Pentecostal at all, and didn't even believe in tongues. {so yes those folks are in there} but studying the Pentecostal movement as a whole in America, please take time to do this: today's dysfunctions and extremes happened even decades ago. One author online, believes that Calvary Chapel in it's middle of the road approach concerning Pentecostalism, believes it helped give the Charismatic movement credibility it formerly lacked in society:

Calvary Chapel churches have played no small part in giving the Charismatic Movement the respectability it has needed to thrive and flourish. Calvary Chapel, by taking a so-called moderate or "balanced" stand on extrabiblical revelation, such as prophecy and tongues, has made what was once considered extreme and unacceptable now appear to be moderate and credible.


What do you think?

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

As I have said before, the extreme is presented by Satan, so that many will flee it only to run into the "more reasonable" lies. The "reasonable lies" will have lots of truth, but then there will be lies inserted, calculated by the Satan to hide the tricks he plays. The Gospel will be preached in the general sense. That is good. However, what is added to those things is what is deceptive. The central vehicle for Satan's Lie is Rome. His job is to get people comfortable with Rome even while speaking against Rome. It's the rhetoric against Rome that puts people at ease. But then that's when Satan begins to chip away with his lies, making Rome appear somewhat LESS evil than it really is, or putting the focus into another area to distract from Rome. Satan's goal here is to get people to be at ease, so that they will be less effective as warriors against his lies or to be focused away from his most effective weapon he has formed--which is Rome. He doesn't care if they don't fall all the way to Rome, he just wants to BLUNT THE SWORD.

A prime example is to plant false teachings which these Evangelicals adopt that POINT AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT THE BISHOP OF ROME IS THE ANTICHRIST AND THAT THE MAGISTERIUM AND ITS PRIESTHOOD/CLERGY IS THE WHORE HERSELF. Satan has been very successful in this area, and even though it was Romish teachers who planted these false teachings, it has been BY FAR Evangelicals that have spread them, blunting the edge of the Sword they hold, and getting them to look elsewhere for the enemy. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

The result of all that is the infiltration of all the deceptions to which you have been pointing. THAT is how they have gotten in, by compromise upon compromise until they are so lukewarm that they are worthy to be spit out. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

Then when these Evangelicals are challenged for these things, IT IS PRIDE THAT KEEPS THEM BLINDED. They do not want to believe that they may have possibly been wrong. It is a terrible thing to realize you have preached and taught thousands of people something wrong. Human nature is such that it shuts this away immediately because it dreads being humiliated more than anything else. Or this may be the case of their followers, who would have to admit there is error in their teacher. This PRIDE is what makes people like this unteachable, stiff-necked, and the result of that is that they become the tools of the Devil, displaying the exact opposite of the fruit of the Spirit. A humble person is willing to be corrected. A prideful person is not. Instead such a person will jealousy defend the indefensible with vile behavior that even reasonable unbelievers would not do. This has been my experience, and it seems the experience of others when contending for the Faith which was once delivered. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

It is obvious then, that their teachers and those teachers doctrines to which their proponents so jealously cling with baring teeth, are their IDOLS. In essence, it is IDOLATRY IN THE CAMP. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

To this I would like to add some observations:

To properly judge a preacher or teacher, one really has to see what it is that person preached and taught. It is the teachings which are to be judged according to Scripture. For this particular man who began this movement, I have not see his teachings. If he had been genuine, there is nothing to prevent the Devil from working among those who flocked to him. Had he been an instrument of Satan, we have Scripture as precedence in Simon of Samaria. The entire city in which he did his lying wonders followed after him.

The next point is to consider the location. That area of California was founded by CATHOLIC MONKS. Just a thought, but it seems that it became a Satanic stronghold since at least those days. We can see what has poured out from hell from this very location, and not just in the religious sense, but the entertainment industry pours out its vileness upon the entire world from that real estate. In this area western world Christians have been shamefully compromising and enjoying the world. Even if they avoid "bad" programs and movies, they seem to devote their time to this household altar than to following the Command to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel to the lost. At the very least, it is a factor that keeps them from studying the Scripture to show themselves approved. It is for THAT VERY REASON that it is easier to collect for their itchy ears preachers to teach them than to be inconvenienced or to make the effort to study Scripture seriously for themselves. They believe they are getting their "recommended daily allowance" from their churches and preachers and teachers, and assume that what they are hearing is the SAME AS THE WORD OF GOD.

Frankly, this is a hypocrisy, for isn't this precisely what the Romish people have done and continue to do? Perhaps a beam needs to be excised from their eyes before they judge others. Anon. #1

Brother_Matt said...

arron you are on the right tract and made some good points... here is the scripture

Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Ga 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Re 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Re 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Re 2:21-22 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Anonymous said...

Amen, Matt. Great verses! Anon. #1

Brother_Matt said...

i will try to keep this quick and point to some links for further study.

i want to address doctrinally tongues and gifts with a quick study in 1 cor chapter 12,13,14

in 1st cor chapter 12 we see a general list of gifts that God has used and given to his servants in the past and which he has given to us today. we must be able to discern between what is still in use and what is not.
the only way to do that is to trace back as to why did he give the sign or gift in the first place.
always keep in mind when studying the bible that God always has a purpose in every thing he dose. and you can always find that purpose within the scriptures. line upon line, here a little there a little

first off here is the verse that shows that God gave gifts to us. in context it is a reference to "the apostolic age" "the church age"
EPH 4:8-14
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

having said that lets look at 1 cor chapter 12

1Co 12:1 ¶ Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
CONTEXT: spiritual gifts, spoken to the church

1Co 12:4-7 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are DIFFERENCES OF ADMINISTRATIONS, but the same Lord. And there are DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. [But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.] last verse vs.7 shows that they are given for a reason. you also see there are;
1. DIFFERENCES OF ADMINISTRATIONS
2. DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS

vs. 9-11 show a list of gifts that have been given.

note: as we will see in a minute there is no where in this chapter that shows that these gifts are all given to us today. but to the contrary lets look at the question that God is asking us in vs. 29-30

Brother_Matt said...

1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

you can easily see that God is asking do you not understand that apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, are not the same. it is obvious to see.

there was a reason for prophets, there was a reason for apostles, there is a reason for teachers.

another scripture that divides the two is Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [showing a difference between Jesus, the apostles, and the church who he was speaking to]

lets start with workers of miracles & apostles.
the bible saids
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

the reason for the wonders & signs in the book of acts where to confirm to the Jew that Jesus was the messiah (acts 5:29-32) and latter to unite the Jew and gentile. this latter reason was instated after the Jew's had rejected the holy spirit. (in the o.t. they rejected God the father 1 sam 8:7, then they rejected God the Son Matt 23:36-39, Luke 19:41-48) now then there last chance was with the signs and wonders and they rejected the preaching of Steven. and who comes in to the picture after that, Who but the apostle Paul. who was the apostle to the gentiles.

in act 10 God use's a sign of tongues to show the apostle to the Jew's that he had included the gentiles (acts 10,11, also eph 2:11- 3;11)

the devil knows how it worked and seeks to do the same to day, with a decoy tongues, to unite the church with the anti-Christ spirit of the end times. and i believe to move toward a type of gnostic end time religion.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

also there are other ref. in revelation.

Brother_Matt said...

now then look hear
1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

paul said
1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

the next chapter is 13 we see the def. of charity. charity is the chief propensity of the mind of Christ, to be renewed in the spirit of your mind is to abide in the mind of Christ. to have your moral government in line with the book and the author of the book.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
if you see the grace of God working in you as the best gift, then dose not this line up with why God said he would give us his spirit in acts 1:8 TO BE A WITNESS.

Brother_Matt said...

ok last of all lets look here

1Co 13:8-10 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; WHETHER THERE BE TONGUES, THEY SHALL CEASE; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But WHEN THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME, THEN THAT WHICH IS IN PART SHALL BE DONE AWAY.

that which is perfect has come, we have a copy of the originals in the KING JAMES BIBLE (psalm 12:6-7)

Heb 1:1-2 ¶ God, who at SUNDRY TIMES and in DIVERS MANNERS SPAKE IN TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets, HATH IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God speaks through his word and the preaching of his word today, no more prophesying in the same sense as in the early church, they had no bible we do, the doctrine of the church was stile being established at that time, not today, no more need for the signs and wonders.
every thin God has to say a revel to man is in the bible.

there are no right ways to speak tongues to day, it is all satanic deception PERIOD.

please read this article as i will not get in to it all

http://www.earnestlycontending.com/ewministries/others/tongues.html

i have illustrations and life experience's as to how the Lord lead me to Dig all this out of the bible.
if i have time latter i will post some of that...

also if you want a good audio lesson on the leaven and the way that Satan is using tongues today go to Jamesknox.com and order his series entitled "take a stand"

this is not really what i think but is what the bible teaches...

i hope this will be a blessing

God bless

brother Matt
psalm 138:4-5

Anonymous said...

A good case you presented, Brother. The Word now has the last say! Anon. #1

Brother_Matt said...

and if not my friend then, we have no more authority then the latter day saints...

think about it...

psalm 11 saids if the foundations be destroyed what shall the righteous do ?

gen 3 Satan said ya hath God said ?

Anonymous said...

Yes, it's always about questioning the Word isn't it? But then you get those who claim to 'love' the Word so much, but they just keep adding that leaven to it, so's it can be puffed up to THEIR liking. The leaven just ends up TWISTING it about as to make it unrecognizable. Anyone who spends time with the UNLEAVENED Word that hears puffy teaching purporting to be the 'word' readily recognizes BABEL when they hear it. There's more than one way to speak "in tongues", you know.

Anonymous said...

oops, sorry, that last post was by Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

What they don't get is that the Word is the Source and Strength of the armor. It's their Weapon! Since Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, then it's also their shield. What do you suppose happens when they mess with the Word by adding the leaven and twisting it all out of shape? They have holes in their armor, gaps for the enemy to enter. Their swords are dull and may as well be little kids' plastic swords. Their shields are like pieces of paper, pretty but worthless. It's sad really. Anon. #1

Anonymous said...

Then they wonder how such believers can fall before the enemy! Anon. #1

Bible Believer said...

"As I have said before, the extreme is presented by Satan, so that many will flee it only to run into the "more reasonable" lies. The "reasonable lies" will have lots of truth, but then there will be lies inserted, calculated by the Satan to hide the tricks he plays."

My response:


I totally agree. Satan has the OVERT deceptions and then the COVERT ONES. We can see how this operates even among websites, where they will express one TRUTH and introduce many other lies. There are wolves webwide, who will even admit Rome is the harlot and then introduce other lies. This can include everything from religious websites where they introduce a new cult, like lets say a Jehovah Witnesses website that warns about Rome to a website like Texe Marrs where he admits some evils of the Pope but blames everything on the "Jews" to deflect from the true mother of all abominations.

Bible Believer said...

"The Gospel will be preached in the general sense. That is good. However, what is added to those things is what is deceptive. The central vehicle for Satan's Lie is Rome. His job is to get people comfortable with Rome even while speaking against Rome."

My response:

I agee. They will preach a general watered down gospel, as I have talked about with Billy Graham and their lowest common denominator gospel and false conversions. But looking at the Charismatic Pente world how many hold a firm stand against Rome anymore? very very few, the majority by far are total ecumenicalists, who have adopted the watered down gospel and many have said things to me like well the Catholic church preaches "jesus" too. Even if a Pentecostal, and I've met many like this, rejects Rome, they have no problem with ecumenicalism among the evangelical world unable to see or realize: even THAT is run by Rome. They just do not get it. Their lowest common denominator false gospel opens them to all sorts of things.

"It's the rhetoric against Rome that puts people at ease. But then that's when Satan begins to chip away with his lies, making Rome appear somewhat LESS evil than it really is, or putting the focus into another area to distract from Rome."

My response:

They have succeeded in the Pente Charismatic world. Definitely.


"Satan's goal here is to get people to be at ease, so that they will be less effective as warriors against his lies or to be focused away from his most effective weapon he has formed--which is Rome. He doesn't care if they don't fall all the way to Rome, he just wants to BLUNT THE SWORD."

My response:

I agree. Hey look at how most of the Pentes view Christians like myself or Rome rejecting Fundamentalists. I found the churches I visited very watered down towards Roman Catholicism. When even my last CC pastor walked by me, he seemed upset to overhear me talkingabout Rome as the harlot and praising God that I was set free, was talking to another ex-Catholic in that church. Being open about deception in Pente circles from what I have seen is not welcome. They will tell you do not seperate the tares from the wheat to excuse following false pastors, will tell you anything "negative" or even criticism is wrong. In churches where false experience is the top dog, they do not like the overly analytical.

"A prime example is to plant false teachings which these Evangelicals adopt that POINT AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT THE BISHOP OF ROME IS THE ANTICHRIST AND THAT THE MAGISTERIUM AND ITS PRIESTHOOD/CLERGY IS THE WHORE HERSELF."

This is something I have recently figured out via prayer and study. I realized how much of the pre-trib world pointed to some huge world leader that would be like a dictator and would fool all religions, well hasn't this already happened already to a certain regard. Even doing the study about the Pope's demand for world government knowing how even the royals of this earth scrape and bow before him, helped put those puzzle pieces together.

Bible Believer said...

Thank you Brother Matt for your links and information.

I will have to admit, I am new in my studies regarding Pentecostalism. I was in a good fundie baptist church that rejected Pentecostalism, but knew very little about it.

I agree that Gods Word is perfect and there is no more adding to it, no more new "revelation". That is one disturbing thing about many of these Pente circles, some of the leaders even seek to add to God's Word and they can do this fooling people saying well GOD TOLD ME SO. Along with the tongues, many of the prophecies have been rendered false too. While I do think the Holy Spirit allows for healings--we pray to God to get better do we not, and deliverance--spiritual warfare against demons, and discernment--judgement of the saints, I do not believe there is to be new signs and wonders either, why else does the Bible say, that is an evil generation that seeks after a sign. Many of these Pente churches I have discussed on this post, become almost circuses trying to outdo each other in showing as many signs as possible.

So when you say there is no right way to speak tongues, I haven't found any churches doing it, the way it is done in the Bible--real languages with interperation. So I definitely believe what we see before us in the Pente and Charismatic world is satanic delusions.

I've been over to the earnestly contending website, lots of things of interest there before.

Thanks so much. God bless you.

Bible Believer said...

"in act 10 God use's a sign of tongues to show the apostle to the Jew's that he had included the gentiles (acts 10,11, also eph 2:11- 3;11)

the devil knows how it worked and seeks to do the same to day, with a decoy tongues, to unite the church with the anti-Christ spirit of the end times. and i believe to move toward a type of gnostic end time religion."

I agree, definite decoy tongues, you are right about Acts 10, I have studied that in relation to tongues as well too. The Pente and Charismatic churches, I do see as daughters of Rome, I may post on that more too, it definitely is all leading to the gnostic end time religion.

Doug Burroughs said...

Just a historical note: "Do not forget that Azusa was where even churches like Foursquare [which Kathyrn Khulman was a member of, and many others [even beyond the ones mentioned above] branched off from." Miss Khulman was never a member of the Foursquare Church.

Accuracy counts.